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View Full Version : March Vacancy


hercengmech
11-06-2018, 11:58 AM
Anyone have any idea when the March vacancies will post? The ones that closed on oct 30th.


Al Czervik
11-06-2018, 12:03 PM
Anyone have any idea when the March vacancies will post? The ones that closed on oct 30th.

Probably Friday 11/16

hercengmech
11-06-2018, 01:12 PM
Sweet.......


bigscrillywilli
11-11-2018, 09:07 AM
Bid out yet? Lol

Sliceback
11-11-2018, 01:46 PM
One of these days Alice, one of these days...

To the moon. Pow!

bigscrillywilli
11-11-2018, 03:16 PM
AAbsurd how long it takes

450knotOffice
11-11-2018, 05:27 PM
Hey, we had them EVERY month till USAir/AWA management took over. Don't blame us. Dougie's team implemented that lame idea.

Saabs
11-11-2018, 05:36 PM
Hey, we had them EVERY month till USAir/AWA management took over. Don't blame us. Dougie's team implemented that lame idea.

What does US airways management have to do with it? You voted on a jcba that clearly defined the minimum amount of bids per year. Thatís on the pilot group. Look in the mirror.

Al Czervik
11-11-2018, 05:45 PM
What does US airways management have to do with it? You voted on a jcba that clearly defined the minimum amount of bids per year. Thatís on the pilot group. Look in the mirror.

He only looked at the pay rates.

Arado 234
11-11-2018, 11:21 PM
What does US airways management have to do with it? You voted on a jcba that clearly defined the minimum amount of bids per year. Thatís on the pilot group. Look in the mirror.

With a nice $3000+ APA dinner (almost on their members' dime).

450knotOffice
11-12-2018, 10:37 AM
He only looked at the pay rates.

How would you know anything about me, or how I voted, or why, ďAlĒ? Why the personal mud-sling at me?

viper548
11-12-2018, 10:44 AM
Why are you guys fighting over vacancy bids? We have zero control over them. BTW our vacancy process is far superior to what Delta does.

Sliceback
11-12-2018, 11:06 AM
With a nice $3000+ APA dinner (almost on their members' dime).

That was a one time deal. Members are being soaked for more every month. Itís just less obvious.

And the band played on.

Name User
11-12-2018, 11:33 AM
He only looked at the pay rates.

Wasn't the vacancy award at LUS whenever they felt like it? With half the pay we are making now?

I feel a lot of LUS guys like to crap on LAA for no reason. Kinda sorta similar to the TWA folks.

Al Czervik
11-12-2018, 11:48 AM
How would you know anything about me, or how I voted, or why, ďAlĒ? Why the personal mud-sling at me?

Iím tired of the idea that LAA brought a bag of gifts to this merger. We had lower pay. You guys had a laundry list of archaic crap and a crappy culture we are dealing with now. AA was and is a mess. You made a stupid comment. I may have said something stupid in return. Apologies for that.

Al Czervik
11-12-2018, 11:54 AM
Wasn't the vacancy award at LUS whenever they felt like it? With half the pay we are making now?

I feel a lot of LUS guys like to crap on LAA for no reason. Kinda sorta similar to the TWA folks.

I love the TWA guys. No elitesim and no BS.

450knotOffice
11-12-2018, 12:01 PM
Al, there was no elitism in my statement. I honestly feel the opposite to be true. As Name User said, some LUS folks seem to love to constantly come in here and sling mud at LAA folks.

All I said was we at LAA had the bid runs every month. LUS management comes in, and now those monthly bids are gone. Yes, we all voted this POS contract in, including you folks, but the LUS management team was the team that obviously wanted that monthly bid run to be changed to 3x per year.

As for LUS and AWA folks, Iíve loved flying with them. Awesome folks. No elitism on my end, Al.

Al Czervik
11-12-2018, 12:15 PM
Al, there was no elitism in my statement. I honestly feel the opposite to be true. As Name User said, some LUS folks seem to love to constantly come in here and sling mud at LAA folks.

All I said was we at LAA had the bid runs every month. LUS management comes in, and now those monthly bids are gone. Yes, we all voted this POS contract in, including you folks, but the LUS management team was the team that obviously wanted that monthly bid run to be changed to 3x per year.

As for LUS and AWA folks, Iíve loved flying with them. Awesome folks. No elitism on my end, Al.

Thatís good to hear. You guys bring up an interesting point. This is an honest question. Why would guys bag on LAA if things were so bad at US and things were great here.

I heard a LUS guy say this (I think a lot of people feel this way)
At Airways I hated my paycheck and loved my job.
At American I love my paycheck and hate my job.

I donít get it. Whatís wrong with the culture here and more importantly... will it ever be fixed? I definitely donít know.

450knotOffice
11-12-2018, 12:20 PM
I think very few here are under any illusions that LAA has been any good in most ways. Itís been pretty bad for at least two decades. Certain items in the contract were nice, but not many. Culture has always been toxic.

biigD
11-12-2018, 12:24 PM
I moved to an LAA base (LGA) and really like it. Great crews, good trips - itís hard to complain. But I know itís not like this everywhere.

Al Czervik
11-12-2018, 12:37 PM
Culture has always been toxic.

Thatís what I donít get.

450knotOffice
11-12-2018, 12:51 PM
Not sure why. Management here has always been antagonistic with labor. Itís deeply ingrained in their management culture. I think it started back in the Crandal era.

sherpster
11-12-2018, 12:55 PM
Maybe its the employees and not the management. I havent been at AA long enough to know for sure but other than the recent crap with commuter misses being entered into some PEH system I really havent seen that much jerkiness from management. Chiefs seems overly easy to talk to you, management seems to be trying to put information out and fix issues that are brought to them, and management sure does welcome new hires to the company in the right way. Maybe I need to put the KoolAide down.

Al Czervik
11-12-2018, 01:06 PM
Maybe its the employees and not the management. I havent been at AA long enough to know for sure but other than the recent crap with commuter misses being entered into some PEH system I really havent seen that much jerkiness from management. Chiefs seems overly easy to talk to you, management seems to be trying to put information out and fix issues that are brought to them, and management sure does welcome new hires to the company in the right way.

I donít disagree.

Name User
11-12-2018, 01:14 PM
That’s good to hear. You guys bring up an interesting point. This is an honest question. Why would guys bag on LAA if things were so bad at US and things were great here.

I heard a LUS guy say this (I think a lot of people feel this way)
At Airways I hated my paycheck and loved my job.
At American I love my paycheck and hate my job.

I don’t get it. What’s wrong with the culture here and more importantly... will it ever be fixed? I definitely don’t know.
Revisionist history. No one at LUS loved their job. On OE, my first leg ever, the CKA gave his crew brief. "We need to take care of ourselves because the company won't".

The LUS agents system wide were bitter, they absolutely hated their jobs.

Were you at LUS when hotels were denying crews stay there due to lack of payment? The company was promising to reimburse if you used a personal credit card.

The VAST majority of "LUS" on this board were hired in the 2013 time frame after the merger was announced. We had absolutely zero expectation to continue working for Airways. And honestly, had the merger not gone through, how many of you guys wouldn't have apps out? I had an offer from a LCC and seriously considered that over LUS.

I see the same thing in the TWA guys, they were so proud of their company, they bleed TWA red. When you ask, how long were you there, "oh a year until AA bought us!". Seriously dude? TWA was a craphole carrier at that point with rates that made Airways look good but it was a close knit company. I get that. Airways only had 3000 pilots on so on the East.

Sliceback
11-12-2018, 01:19 PM
Wasn't the vacancy award at LUS whenever they felt like it? With half the pay we are making now?

I feel a lot of LUS guys like to crap on LAA for no reason. Kinda sorta similar to the TWA folks.

44% for the East, 50% for the West, after B fund is included. But the work rules....the work rules.... As a junior FO said the other day "pay is QOL."

450knotOffice
11-12-2018, 01:19 PM
My dealings with base chiefs has been good recently. However, Iíve heard that the chiefs used to be much more forceful, and less understanding and/or lenient. I think a lot of the distrust with LAA folks toward management is due to the two decades of near constant give backs to the company in pay and work rules.
Personally, I spent twenty plus years on the Eagle side of the corporation before coming over just over five years ago. I have many friends and acquaintances who were at AAL from the late 80ís on, and watched them suffer through one concession after another through two decades. No growth. No upgrades for a generation. Pilots and all of AAís labor became a very unhappy bunch over the years. Don Carty, Crandallís successor pulled concessions out of labor, then immediately gave himself and senior level management huge bonuses, something that resonated so poorly with labor that he resigned shortly thereafter. His successors were essentially more of the same.

Name User
11-12-2018, 01:20 PM
Maybe its the employees and not the management. I havent been at AA long enough to know for sure but other than the recent crap with commuter misses being entered into some PEH system I really havent seen that much jerkiness from management. Chiefs seems overly easy to talk to you, management seems to be trying to put information out and fix issues that are brought to them, and management sure does welcome new hires to the company in the right way. Maybe I need to put the KoolAide down.

No, you are spot on. I have had two not so great interactions with some CP's but I won't go into that here. But people here just do not care. Look at all the guys in CnR who ***** about not being paid extra to save fuel, single engine taxi, take shortcuts, etc. As if their $5/minute pay wasn't enough.

People here do no appreciate what they have going for them. I see so many bitter CAs speaking down to fellow employees.

Sliceback
11-12-2018, 01:22 PM
I moved to an LAA base (LGA) and really like it. Great crews, good trips - itís hard to complain. But I know itís not like this everywhere.

No, no, no. It's miserable and toxic.

If you're confused quit posting, please. ;-))

TransWorld
11-12-2018, 01:25 PM
I love the TWA guys. No elitesim and no BS.

I think all the TWA pilots would say thank you. Been through a lot. It is what it is. Suck it up. Enjoy flying. Enjoy (most) of the colleagues. Enjoy the pay (not perfect, but a whole lot better than the big pay cuts agree to during the 1990s). Enjoy time off with family and friends.

Be professional and smile. You can consciously wake up each day and be glad you are alive and are a pilot with one of the major airlines. Having a good attitude is what one decides to have.

Even those retired work to be gracious, professional, and smile.

TransWorld

Saabs
11-12-2018, 01:42 PM
Fix this red redder crap and we will all be much happier :D

OVBIII
11-12-2018, 02:51 PM
Fix this red redder crap and we will all be much happier :D

100% in agreeance! Indeed my good sir.

Andrew_VT
11-12-2018, 03:17 PM
As a junior FO said the other day "pay is QOL."

That's only true if you are allowed to drop trips. Higher payrate=few hours needed to meet $$ goal.

A full and inflexible schedule with poor work rules is crappy no matter how much you make (unless your life priorities are whacked)

bigscrillywilli
11-12-2018, 03:42 PM
Wow look what I started......I was just bi*#+=ng about how long it takes them to come out with the award after it closes!

PS I think it will be much more than 3 per year, 2019 already has a January and March bid 🤔

Al Czervik
11-12-2018, 03:44 PM
Wow look what I started......I was just bi*#+=ng about how long it takes them to come out with the award after it closes!

PS I think it will be much more than 3 per year, 2019 already has a January and March bid ��

No kidding! I have a red dot below my profile too. Am I in trouble now?

mainlineAF
11-12-2018, 04:18 PM
ďCultureĒ is corporate middle management bs talk.

Thereís 100k employees at AA. Of course some are bitter. I couldnít give 2 effs about why someone is crabby as long as my paychecks keep coming.

Sliceback
11-12-2018, 05:52 PM
ďCultureĒ is corporate middle management bs talk.

Thereís 100k employees at AA. Of course some are bitter. I couldnít give 2 effs about why someone is crabby as long as my paychecks keep coming.

Paychecks for 11/15 are on jetnet. At least this paycheck should be in the bank.

Rawhide16
11-13-2018, 12:03 AM
Wow look what I started......I was just bi*#+=ng about how long it takes them to come out with the award after it closes!

PS I think it will be much more than 3 per year, 2019 already has a January and March bid 🤔

That is what every thread here turns into. Itís essentially C&R Lite over here without some of the insanity.

Iím in the same boat and am in agreement with sherpster. This has been a great place to be thus far. Sure, we have some areas for improvement in the upcoming negotiations and I think weíll get there.

As far as culture goes, I think that will change with attrition. There are too many bitter, crusty old farts here that will not change their attitude no matter what the company does. Once they retire it will improve.

Varks
11-13-2018, 05:28 AM
The momentum of culture clearly takes time to reverse. It didnít get negative overnight and will not turn positive overnight. I can remember when I was new thinking about how many were so negative about the company. Fast forward 20 plus years and many of those negative connotations still exist. Mr. Parker did a tremendous job merging our airlines. I am beginning to think he is not so good at the culture change thing. They did a survey a year ago and the results were very poor. They changed nothing. I may even argue things have become worse. The beatings will continue until morale improves. Every month reassignments, recovery obligations, sending direct connect messages in to fight for pay that is mine, witnessing passengers getting mistreated, etc. etc.. I still have not met a chief pilot. I got a text from one a while back saying my direct connect pay issue was approved. Logged into my email to see I was denied by pay people. You canít make it up. Had to reissue my case saying the chief approved it. Call me old, crusty, negative or what have you. I call it experienced.

Varks
11-13-2018, 05:33 AM
Chasing pay chaps my ass. Two out of the last three times I have rightfully put in RFDs I have not been paid. I save the EDCT on the PDC to prove I should be paid. Send in the direct connect and in one case denied. Guess Iíll push on time and time out next time this comes up. Itís really starting to frustrate me. This pay stuff is done by hand still. Amazing.

aa73
11-13-2018, 05:45 AM
The toxic culture at LAA can be traced back to the Bob Crandall and Don Carty B-scale brain trust of the 1980s. As soon as that little gem was ushered in, it immediately sent a message to the new hire pilots essentially telling them, We don’t think you’re worth half of what your fellow pilots are worth. Bam, an immediate pitting of the pilot group against each other. (Yes, those new hires must have known what they were getting in to.) Followed immediately by the introduction of “all jobs at AA are equal.” So bring in the agents, F/As, rampers, etc... all claiming that their jobs are all on even footing with the pilots. Bam, every employee group against each other.

Today’s toxic culture is very much a product of that. It’s in the LAA DNA...especially at the middle management level, a lot of pilot haters there. Sad, really.

Bottom line, treat others the way you’d want to be treated. Makes for a pleasant trip and overall great interactions with everyone.

Saabs
11-13-2018, 06:54 AM
The toxic culture at LAA can be traced back to the Bob Crandall and Don Carty B-scale brain trust of the 1980s. As soon as that little gem was ushered in, it immediately sent a message to the new hire pilots essentially telling them, We donít think youíre worth half of what your fellow pilots are worth. Bam, an immediate pitting of the pilot group against each other. (Yes, those new hires must have known what they were getting in to.) Followed immediately by the introduction of ďall jobs at AA are equal.Ē So bring in the agents, F/As, rampers, etc... all claiming that their jobs are all on even footing with the pilots. Bam, every employee group against each other.

Todayís toxic culture is very much a product of that. Itís in the LAA DNA...especially at the middle management level, a lot of pilot haters there. Sad, really.

Bottom line, treat others the way youíd want to be treated. Makes for a pleasant trip and overall great interactions with everyone.
I keep hearing this about middle managers and that they are the ones who really run the show. Any truth to AA having way more middle management than other airlines? Iím sure they were artificially fat on them with the merger.

Arado 234
11-13-2018, 07:58 AM
I keep hearing this about middle managers and that they are the ones who really run the show. Any truth to AA having way more middle management than other airlines? Iím sure they were artificially fat on them with the merger.

Wasn't it announced that they were eliminating many middle management positions a couple of months ago?

Arado 234
11-13-2018, 08:00 AM
Fix this red redder crap and we will all be much happier :D

No. Shoot the Plotter or upload Tron into the Sabre matrix to fight the evil Plotter.

R57 relay
11-13-2018, 10:04 AM
That is what every thread here turns into. Itís essentially C&R Lite over here without some of the insanity.

Iím in the same boat and am in agreement with sherpster. This has been a great place to be thus far. Sure, we have some areas for improvement in the upcoming negotiations and I think weíll get there.

As far as culture goes, I think that will change with attrition. There are too many bitter, crusty old farts here that will not change their attitude no matter what the company does. Once they retire it will improve.


Naw, they crusty old farts will just be replaced with new crusty old farts that were previously crusty young farts. Trust me, there are plenty of those here.

Itís better when viewed from the left seat.

I worked for the best airline in the world (IMHO), the biggest and the in between. Iíve dealt with unhappy pilots at all. Itís the person more than the situation.

I think the internet makes people unhappy. Now every problem, every slight is shared so we all feel as itís happening to us.

UPTme
11-13-2018, 10:07 AM
Where the F is this vacancy award

Climb510
11-13-2018, 10:17 AM
When do the 2nd year pay rates start for new hires? Is it the completion of training date or date of hire?

Sliceback
11-13-2018, 10:20 AM
Naw, they crusty old farts will just be replaced with new crusty old farts that were previously crusty young farts. Trust me, there are plenty of those here.

Itís better when viewed from the left seat.

I worked for the best airline in the world (IMHO), the biggest and the in between. Iíve dealt with unhappy pilots at all. Itís the person more than the situation.

I think the internet makes people unhappy. Now every problem, every slight is shared so we all feel as itís happening to us.

Why donít you take your Ďhappy daysí attitude and go fly a kite? Some of us want to be miserable and wallowing in it is even better! ;-))))

Guys trying to get hired read posts and wonder if they should even apply. Then they get here and realize the *****ing is such a tiny portion of the pilot corps. Laughing, especially stupid laughter, is more likely to occur. And if youíre not laughing thereís always the next trip. If, after three trips, youíre still not remembering laughing at work you need to rethink the answer to ďwhat if itís me?Ē

PRS Guitars
11-13-2018, 10:21 AM
Where the F is this vacancy award

Al called it. This isnít nafarious, it always takes about 3 weeks rounded to the next Friday to come out. Nothing to see here.

Sliceback
11-13-2018, 10:24 AM
Al called it. This isnít nafarious, it always takes about 3 weeks rounded to the next Friday to come out. Nothing to see here.

Wasnít the closing date 10/31? Tomorrow will be ten business days.

DarinFred
11-13-2018, 10:30 AM
SB, when was the last time you were reassigned? As a 3 digit seniority, never furloughed WB Captain, you fly for an entirely different airline than most of us...

R57 relay
11-13-2018, 10:41 AM
Why donít you take your Ďhappy daysí attitude and go fly a kite? Some of us want to be miserable and wallowing in it is even better! ;-))))

Guys trying to get hired read posts and wonder if they should even apply. Then they get here and realize the *****ing is such a tiny portion of the pilot corps. Laughing, especially stupid laughter, is more likely to occur. And if youíre not laughing thereís always the next trip. If, after three trips, youíre still not remembering laughing at work you need to rethink the answer to ďwhat if itís me?Ē

I've had a few guys reach out to me and ask me about US then AA. I told them not to go by this, or any board! Some, ahem, might be mad at me. ;)

Was just on C&R and read a post where the guy said us LUS guys must be beaten down cause were accepting the "awful trips." You know, the ones driven by getting the rig we asked for...

I held my fingers.

Al Czervik
11-13-2018, 10:44 AM
I've had a few guys reach out to me and ask me about US then AA. I told them not to go by this, or any board! Some, ahem, might be mad at me. ;)

Was just on C&R and read a post where the guy said us LUS guys must be beaten down cause were accepting the "awful trips." You know, the ones driven by getting the rig we asked for...

I held my fingers.

C&R is gospel

R57 relay
11-13-2018, 10:47 AM
C&R is gospel

I've learned a lot from it, good and bad. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and wade.

Climb510
11-13-2018, 10:55 AM
Wasnít the closing date 10/31? Tomorrow will be ten business days.

I think it closed 10/30.

PRS Guitars
11-13-2018, 10:57 AM
Wasnít the closing date 10/31? Tomorrow will be ten business days.

Yeah, your right, so if it comes out Friday, thatíd be only 2 weeks rounded to the next Friday. Point is, there is a battle rhythm to this and it pretty much doesnít change.

PRS Guitars
11-13-2018, 11:00 AM
I think the internet makes people unhappy. Now every problem, every slight is shared so we all feel as itís happening to us.

Exactly...

Laker24
11-13-2018, 11:01 AM
I've learned a lot from it, good and bad. Sometimes you have to hold your nose and wade.

I just learned on C&R that a DAL group 4 CA is projected to make 7 figures and a Group 2 FO $480k. I donít care how good our IMAX system is itís not that good. The sad thing is DAL has significantly fewer total aircraft, fewer Gr4 aircraft, and they have more pilots on property. So clearly IMAX isnít the big jobs creator either. I hope our negotiating committee is paying attention.

R57 relay
11-13-2018, 11:53 AM
I just learned on C&R that a DAL group 4 CA is projected to make 7 figures and a Group 2 FO $480k. I donít care how good our IMAX system is itís not that good. The sad thing is DAL has significantly fewer total aircraft, fewer Gr4 aircraft, and they have more pilots on property. So clearly IMAX isnít the big jobs creator either. I hope our negotiating committee is paying attention.

I know there was a lot of concern over the negotiating committee, but I can vouch for one-Scola. Heís sharp and knows the angles.

I told a VP recently that one thing that concerns me is that our scheduling system really isnít good for the pilots or the company. Look at the numbers of reserves we carry.

I wonder what true total pilot cost per block hour is for AA vs. DL.

airlinegypsy
11-13-2018, 12:27 PM
When do the 2nd year pay rates start for new hires? Is it the completion of training date or date of hire?



Completion of training date


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

EMBFlyer
11-13-2018, 01:19 PM
I just learned on C&R that a DAL group 4 CA is projected to make 7 figures and a Group 2 FO $480k. I donít care how good our IMAX system is itís not that good. The sad thing is DAL has significantly fewer total aircraft, fewer Gr4 aircraft, and they have more pilots on property. So clearly IMAX isnít the big jobs creator either. I hope our negotiating committee is paying attention.

Was the post proceeded by the flame emoji and did it contain the words: "The SCAM on the APA Pilots intensifies!!"?

Laker24
11-13-2018, 01:55 PM
Was the post proceeded by the flame emoji and did it contain the words: "The SCAM on the APA Pilots intensifies!!"?

No. It was from a captain who is friends with one of the delta negotiating committee members. I know itís hard for many at AA to believe but DAL runs circles around us in terms of compensation.

As to Ďthe admiralí he is annoying but heís right. We are working at a large discount.

bigscrillywilli
11-13-2018, 02:33 PM
Chasing pay chaps my ass. Two out of the last three times I have rightfully put in RFDs I have not been paid. I save the EDCT on the PDC to prove I should be paid. Send in the direct connect and in one case denied. Guess Iíll push on time and time out next time this comes up. Itís really starting to frustrate me. This pay stuff is done by hand still. Amazing.

Why canít FOs certain pay-claims?? Total BS as far as Iím concerned!

mainlineAF
11-13-2018, 03:35 PM
I just learned on C&R that a DAL group 4 CA is projected to make 7 figures and a Group 2 FO $480k. I donít care how good our IMAX system is itís not that good. The sad thing is DAL has significantly fewer total aircraft, fewer Gr4 aircraft, and they have more pilots on property. So clearly IMAX isnít the big jobs creator either. I hope our negotiating committee is paying attention.



While delta is certainly well ahead of us those 2 guys are total outliers.

Probably super senior, live in base, open time hoes.

Laker24
11-13-2018, 03:50 PM
True. But Delta captains can easily exceed 400k with a little extra effort. Widebody captains 500+. The only Group 2 AA CA I know who made 400+ was a chief pilot.

Name User
11-13-2018, 05:28 PM
I just learned on C&R that a DAL group 4 CA is projected to make 7 figures and a Group 2 FO $480k. I donít care how good our IMAX system is itís not that good. The sad thing is DAL has significantly fewer total aircraft, fewer Gr4 aircraft, and they have more pilots on property. So clearly IMAX isnít the big jobs creator either. I hope our negotiating committee is paying attention.

Pilots are the only major unionized group at Delta. It gives them a lot more flexibility with their work force. More for the pilots to take. We have to pay rampers $80,000 a year, Delta pays $10-$12/hr.

One of the biggest problems the mtc guys are having is being associated with the "fleet service" folks in the same union. It would be like if the FAs were part of APA and voted on our contract together. There are more of them so what they want to happen will. And the jobs come with vastly different education requirements.

EMBFlyer
11-13-2018, 06:12 PM
No. It was from a captain who is friends with one of the delta negotiating committee members. I know itís hard for many at AA to believe but DAL runs circles around us in terms of compensation.

As to Ďthe admiralí he is annoying but heís right. We are working at a large discount.

My post was tongue-in-cheek. And yes, while he's annoying and spams a lot, he's in tune.

Laker24
11-13-2018, 06:29 PM
Pilots are the only major unionized group at Delta. It gives them a lot more flexibility with their work force. More for the pilots to take. We have to pay rampers $80,000 a year, Delta pays $10-$12/hr.

.

Who cares? Thatís not our problem. AAL is making BILLIONS. We can afford to pay DAL/UAL/SWA/UPS compensation. Does AAL get a discount on fuel, aircraft, landing fees, etc because we pay our rampers too much? The only group who might be convinced to take less than industry standard during times of historic profitability are pilots.

QuagmireGiggity
11-14-2018, 04:13 AM
My post was tongue-in-cheek. And yes, while he's annoying and spams a lot, he's in tune.
True. I'm always a bit perplexed at the hate for him.

R57 relay
11-14-2018, 04:43 AM
True. I'm always a bit perplexed at the hate for him.

I don't hate him and I don't have him blocked, but he often puts out bad info and sometimes flat our lies. When called on it he just ignores it and continues. I wouldn't believe him that the sun came up this morning without confirmation.

Sliceback
11-14-2018, 06:10 AM
True. I'm always a bit perplexed at the hate for him.

Report back in 20 yrs. Even a fan of ground hog day gets tired of it after the 48,000 time.

Laker24
11-14-2018, 08:08 AM
Below I copied a gem from mr Miller. Looking at those departure stats its no wonder DAL can pay 50%+ more and still kick our ass on margins. They are operating almost exclusively mainline aircraft into their major hubs while we clog ours up with endless Rat Jets. Time to sh*t can our executive suite. According to Parker itís a ďnew industryĒ but we are using strategies from the early 2000s.

DFW AAL APA vs ATL DAL ALPA Flying Spring 2019

ATL DAL ALPA

Total Departures.......1100

Mainline .......................81%

RJs................................19%

DFW AAL APA

Total Departures .......900

Mainline.......................45%

RJs...............................55%

ENJOY THE NEW RJ CULTURE !

Floobs
11-14-2018, 08:24 AM
Below I copied a gem from mr Miller. Looking at those departure stats its no wonder DAL can pay 50%+ more and still kick our ass on margins. They are operating almost exclusively mainline aircraft into their major hubs while we clog ours up with endless Rat Jets. Time to sh*t can our executive suite. According to Parker itís a ďnew industryĒ but we are using strategies from the early 2000s.

DFW AAL APA vs ATL DAL ALPA Flying Spring 2019

ATL DAL ALPA

Total Departures.......1100

Mainline .......................81%

RJs................................19%

DFW AAL APA

Total Departures .......900

Mainline.......................45%

RJs...............................55%

ENJOY THE NEW RJ CULTURE !

Compare it airline wide.

Sliceback
11-14-2018, 08:37 AM
BTS.gov has the data. I just looked at AA and AE flights out of DFW for 2017 and 2018 (only has the first couple of months).

Data? Here's a couple to start with -
https://transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=3 (^ better)


AA had 3.02x (302%) as many flights as AE in DFW in 2017.
So far in 2018 it's 2.62x (262%) as many flights.

For his stats to be true the other AA regionals have to be doing almost twice as many flights out of DFW as AE is.

Absent him providing the source of his 'facts' you can't believe a word he writes. It is what it is.

Laker24
11-14-2018, 08:41 AM
Here you go. Delta has around 460 RJs. AAL is projected to soon be over 600. Almost 50% more. Delta is shrinking their RJ fleet. We are growing ours.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.fool.com/amp/investing/2018/05/31/american-airlines-wants-to-be-more-like-delta-but.aspx

Sunvox
11-14-2018, 01:16 PM
Isn't the real question what your Scope says:

https://i.postimg.cc/J7j51dx4/scope.jpg

R57 relay
11-14-2018, 02:29 PM
The Admiral would constantly make inflammatory posts about LUS guys getting group 4 captain bids. He would list the legacy fleets and leave out LUS aircraft and the fact that US east had the highest % of group 4 captains.

He might get a post right every once in a while, but I wouldn't trust his numbers. I think Sliceback is correct and the Admiral wrong on his DFW %.

SheepDogg
11-14-2018, 05:37 PM
True. I'm always a bit perplexed at the hate for him.

Give it time. You will hate him too. And he will love it. Some people need attention so much, that any attention, even negative, is gratifying for them.

Laker24
11-14-2018, 08:00 PM
BTS.gov has the data. I just looked at AA and AE flights out of DFW for 2017 and 2018 (only has the first couple of months).

Data? Here's a couple to start with -
https://transtats.bts.gov/airports.asp
https://www.transtats.bts.gov/Data_Elements.aspx?Data=3 (^ better)


AA had 3.02x (302%) as many flights as AE in DFW in 2017.
So far in 2018 it's 2.62x (262%) as many flights.

For his stats to be true the other AA regionals have to be doing almost twice as many flights out of DFW as AE is.

Absent him providing the source of his 'facts' you can't believe a word he writes. It is what it is.

You posted a link to available seat miles. Mainline aircraft fly longer stage lengths with more seats. Do you have data on departures?

TRZ06
11-14-2018, 11:06 PM
Is anyone surprised that American will fly as many regionals as they can within the scope clause? They are fairly close to the proportional limit now. While we slowly grow the NB mainline fleet the percentage will remain at the limit which is huge...115% ! I am not sure where the fleet numbers stand now, but with the WB flying remaining fairly static it is possible the regionals will account for almost half the flying and probably more than half the amount of pilots. Imagine what the flow through will be at that point.

Sliceback
11-15-2018, 08:13 AM
You posted a link to available seat miles. Mainline aircraft fly longer stage lengths with more seats. Do you have data on departures?

Near the bottom are several options. ĎFlightsí is one of them.

Name User
11-15-2018, 01:09 PM
Is anyone surprised that American will fly as many regionals as they can within the scope clause? They are fairly close to the proportional limit now. While we slowly grow the NB mainline fleet the percentage will remain at the limit which is huge...115% ! I am not sure where the fleet numbers stand now, but with the WB flying remaining fairly static it is possible the regionals will account for almost half the flying and probably more than half the amount of pilots. Imagine what the flow through will be at that point.

I believe this is the peak mainline aircraft count. After 2018 it declines.

Sliceback
11-15-2018, 01:33 PM
Comodny estimates -

2018E - 957
2019E - 950
2020E - 955

How much they fly is important.

jcountry
11-15-2018, 11:00 PM
Iím tired of the idea that LAA brought a bag of gifts to this merger. We had lower pay. You guys had a laundry list of archaic crap and a crappy culture we are dealing with now. AA was and is a mess. You made a stupid comment. I may have said something stupid in return. Apologies for that.

Like the wonder twins-just in a bad way? Took the worst of all 3 contracts and melded them into a real turd....

Dobbs18
11-16-2018, 07:47 AM
I moved to an LAA base (LGA) and really like it. Great crews, good trips - itís hard to complain. But I know itís not like this everywhere.

Its probably like that in LGA, I am guessing, because its a bunch of new hires, generally happy to be at a major, and a bunch of new captains, generally happy to finally be in the left seat, and a bunch of new young FAs, good for obvious reasons...that being said down here in CLT most guys/gals are pretty happy, a few outliers of course but a minority by far. I love CLT, captains are laid back as f&%$!

GodIsGood
11-16-2018, 09:12 AM
The preliminary is out!

mainlineAF
11-16-2018, 09:50 AM
Group 2 captain down to August 13 hires.

ORDinary
11-16-2018, 10:11 AM
ORD completely stagnant as per usual.

LucasM
11-16-2018, 11:35 AM
The preliminary is out!

Whatís it say?

TRZ06
11-16-2018, 03:52 PM
Group 2 captain down to August 13 hires.

And they have to reproffer for 10 more for the same period. Looks like they may have to draft some guys for a mandatory upgrade. Ahhh, just like the good ole days.:eek:

drinksonme
11-16-2018, 03:53 PM
And they have to reproffer for 10 more for the same period. Looks like they may have to draft some guys for a mandatory upgrade. Ahhh, just like the good ole days.:eek:

Thats for group 1 (E190) only I though? Group 1 has been well beyond 2013 date of hire for years

Sliceback
11-16-2018, 06:30 PM
Group 2 captain down to August 13 hires.

5.5 yrs. This place sucks. Tell your friends to some place else. (sarcasm)

With increasing number of retirements it might get even quicker.

TRZ06
11-16-2018, 07:38 PM
Thats for group 1 (E190) only I though? Group 1 has been well beyond 2013 date of hire for years

My bad. I see the seniority of the group 2 guy was 11446 and Im not sure what that DOH would have been. Yep, group 1 CA might be something more folks are trying to avoid. Sounds like it will be gone by 2020 anyway. Once that happens do we really need the group 1 or 5 categories anymore? If only for simplicity its easier to think of a 3 group system. Might not be too long before its NB or WB only. Personally, seat and longevity might rule the day before too long.:confused:

Dobbs18
11-17-2018, 04:56 AM
ORD completely stagnant as per usual.

CLT/320/fo had only 1 position awarded....and they were like 10,01x seniority....CLT is were Group II FO seniority goes to die...:(

mainlineAF
11-17-2018, 07:27 AM
5.5 yrs. This place sucks. Tell your friends to some place else. (sarcasm)



With increasing number of retirements it might get even quicker.



Well i think we can safely say the retirement numbers are the best thing AA currently has to offer lol.

Come slog around the domestic narrow body system. Our operation isnít running too hot. Itís flat out embarrassing sometimes.

Name User
11-17-2018, 03:30 PM
Well i think we can safely say the retirement numbers are the best thing AA currently has to offer lol.

Come slog around the domestic narrow body system. Our operation isnít running too hot. Itís flat out embarrassing sometimes.

Depends. I'm on the 80. It's pretty smooth. Lots of smaller Eaglet stations with hard working Midwest attitudes. I wish it weren't going away, after flying around the east coast for over a decade this is cake flying.

mainlineAF
11-17-2018, 04:24 PM
Depends. I'm on the 80. It's pretty smooth. Lots of smaller Eaglet stations with hard working Midwest attitudes. I wish it weren't going away, after flying around the east coast for over a decade this is cake flying.



Yea maybe Iím biased spending all my time in phl and lga.

Arado 234
11-17-2018, 04:51 PM
Depends. I'm on the 80. It's pretty smooth. Lots of smaller Eaglet stations with hard working Midwest attitudes. I wish it weren't going away, after flying around the east coast for over a decade this is cake flying.

Don't want to start a culture war, but I do not remember anything about a hard working Midwest attitude. I do remember attitude though...

Name User
11-17-2018, 06:06 PM
Don't want to start a culture war, but I do not remember anything about a hard working Midwest attitude. I do remember attitude though...

After a decade of flying US Airways stuff out of Philly, yeah, the Midwest is better. A lot better.

I recently DH'd home through Philly for the first time after coming to Dallas last year. Honestly I don't know how I put up with the east coast for so long. Charlotte wasn't much better. For the LUS folks that haven't been in Dallas you need to give it a chance.

PRS Guitars
11-17-2018, 06:41 PM
After a decade of flying US Airways stuff out of Philly, yeah, the Midwest is better. A lot better.

I recently DH'd home through Philly for the first time after coming to Dallas last year. Honestly I don't know how I put up with the east coast for so long. Charlotte wasn't much better. For the LUS folks that haven't been in Dallas you need to give it a chance.

LAX is great too...

R57 relay
11-18-2018, 05:21 AM
After a decade of flying US Airways stuff out of Philly, yeah, the Midwest is better. A lot better.

I recently DH'd home through Philly for the first time after coming to Dallas last year. Honestly I don't know how I put up with the east coast for so long. Charlotte wasn't much better. For the LUS folks that haven't been in Dallas you need to give it a chance.

I hear a lot about DFW gate agents, but I can't remember an issue with them. The consistent problem I have there is catering and getting those issues fixed. LAA maintenance seem all around more hard core about the contract, thus slower getting anything fixed. My record-1.5 hours for oil service in MIA.

Last summer had plenty of crap all around the system. My last 3 day everything ran on time, even with the Northeast weather.

Arado 234
11-18-2018, 06:14 AM
After a decade of flying US Airways stuff out of Philly, yeah, the Midwest is better. A lot better.

I recently DH'd home through Philly for the first time after coming to Dallas last year. Honestly I don't know how I put up with the east coast for so long. Charlotte wasn't much better. For the LUS folks that haven't been in Dallas you need to give it a chance.

I had bad experiences with DFW and ORD gate agents, DFW treats me better now that I am part of AA. ORD is hit or miss.

Again, those are individual (and cultural) experiences. PHL taught me to not take ??? from anybody and once you learn the rules it's about the same.

drinksonme
11-18-2018, 01:24 PM
CLT/320/fo had only 1 position awarded....and they were like 10,01x seniority....CLT is were Group II FO seniority goes to die...:(

Ah yeah.....so how many CLT CAís retire over the next 2 years. PHX is really where moving up is dead. Iíve been here 6 years, transferred to PHX in early 2017, and I am 80% as and FO. PHX retirements, not even close to CLT, I mean like 10-15 years behind CLT. Perspective....guys 1 month in front of me can hold CA in other bases......so yeah post next December and tell me where you are in CLT....I bet Iíll still be 70-80% and no where close to moving up. Stop whining

mainlineAF
11-18-2018, 04:05 PM
Ah yeah.....so how many CLT CAís retire over the next 2 years. PHX is really where moving up is dead. Iíve been here 6 years, transferred to PHX in early 2017, and I am 80% as and FO. PHX retirements, not even close to CLT, I mean like 10-15 years behind CLT. Perspective....guys 1 month in front of me can hold CA in other bases......so yeah post next December and tell me where you are in CLT....I bet Iíll still be 70-80% and no where close to moving up. Stop whining



If youíve been here six years you can hold 737/320 LGA captain and maybe MIA 320 captain.

Andrew_VT
11-18-2018, 04:40 PM
Ah yeah.....so how many CLT CAís retire over the next 2 years.

Same answer as how many retired the past 2 years... a ton!

Doesn't seem to do them much good.

drinksonme
11-18-2018, 04:51 PM
If youíve been here six years you can hold 737/320 LGA captain and maybe MIA 320 captain.

Exactly my point. I am not the one saying my seniority is dying in my base. It is what it is so to speak. I prefer to drive to work if they call me while sitting long call. Others want the senior pilots in their bases schedule....but are junior in a senior base a complain. I am not complaining, rather I am saying if yo donít like what you have fix it yourself. I am totally fine being 80% in my base a getting 16-18 days off in reserve cause they donít use me. Just pointing out that complaining about your situation, while being able to change it if you wish, is a little.....snively

mainlineAF
11-18-2018, 05:02 PM
Anyone have any idea if there will be another bid before they park all the 80s?

Iím guessing those 300ish guys getting displaced are going to be clogging up the movement for a little while.

Name User
11-18-2018, 05:47 PM
Anyone have any idea if there will be another bid before they park all the 80s?

Iím guessing those 300ish guys getting displaced are going to be clogging up the movement for a little while.

I think around 400

I imagine we will hire a lot early on so to free up spots as we displace

mainlineAF
11-18-2018, 05:54 PM
I think around 400



I imagine we will hire a lot early on so to free up spots as we displace



I was thinking more along the lines of upgrades. Hopefully itís just a ripple.

sumwherelse
11-18-2018, 07:03 PM
Ah yeah.....so how many CLT CAís retire over the next 2 years. PHX is really where moving up is dead. Iíve been here 6 years, transferred to PHX in early 2017, and I am 80% as and FO. PHX retirements, not even close to CLT, I mean like 10-15 years behind CLT. Perspective....guys 1 month in front of me can hold CA in other bases......so yeah post next December and tell me where you are in CLT....I bet Iíll still be 70-80% and no where close to moving up. Stop whining

So YOU bid PHX. So what are you *****ing about? You want to be a Capt? Bid it you can hold it. You want to be senior? Bid LAX you can hold it. YOU put yourself in PHX so not sure you have anything to complain about.

PRS Guitars
11-18-2018, 07:57 PM
So YOU bid PHX. So what are you *****ing about? You want to be a Capt? Bid it you can hold it. You want to be senior? Bid LAX you can hold it. YOU put yourself in PHX so not sure you have anything to complain about.

I think you need to reread his posts...you two are actually in agreement.

Battlinbear21
11-19-2018, 02:30 AM
question about upgrade-wth. was awarded udc320 from 190. 9-12 mo lock starting 3/19. i will not be drafted to left seat on this bid. but if it happens again most likely might. if they force someone to left seat will it reset a lock for 9-12 more months?! I also wouldnít mind bidding ca-190 but iím positive if I do that iíll most likely be held another 12 months or more. my hour and 30 min drive is becoming a pain. (iím joking of course, iím very fortunate to live so close to phl dc bwi iad.)

flydc
11-19-2018, 04:46 AM
question about upgrade-wth. was awarded udc320 from 190. 9-12 mo lock starting 3/19. i will not be drafted to left seat on this bid. but if it happens again most likely might. if they force someone to left seat will it reset a lock for 9-12 more months?! I also wouldnít mind bidding ca-190 but iím positive if I do that iíll most likely be held another 12 months or more. my hour and 30 min drive is becoming a pain. (iím joking of course, iím very fortunate to live so close to phl dc bwi iad.)

If you bid and are awarded 190 CA, they will likely train you right away with no withhold. They desperately need 190 captains.

Arado 234
11-19-2018, 04:59 AM
question about upgrade-wth. was awarded udc320 from 190. 9-12 mo lock starting 3/19. i will not be drafted to left seat on this bid. but if it happens again most likely might. if they force someone to left seat will it reset a lock for 9-12 more months?! I also wouldnít mind bidding ca-190 but iím positive if I do that iíll most likely be held another 12 months or more. my hour and 30 min drive is becoming a pain. (iím joking of course, iím very fortunate to live so close to phl dc bwi iad.)

You'll probably be a line holder right away, CA G2 pay if I understand this correctly, huge opportunity for premium. Some people would give up their meth lab for that!

Congrats!

flydc
11-19-2018, 05:06 AM
You'll probably be a line holder right away, CA G2 pay if I understand this correctly, huge opportunity for premium. Some people would give up their meth lab for that!

Congrats!

Unfortunately, not. G1 pay (which leaves a lot to be desired) and short-call reserve. Don't give up your meth lab just yet.

drinksonme
11-19-2018, 06:07 AM
So YOU bid PHX. So what are you *****ing about? You want to be a Capt? Bid it you can hold it. You want to be senior? Bid LAX you can hold it. YOU put yourself in PHX so not sure you have anything to complain about.

HAHA....take PRS Guitars advise and re-READ ALL my post buddy. 🤦🏼

Off the rail....Hey remember when people said ďgo be a lawyerĒ. My friend that is a lawyer is seriously considering leaving the job. The 80-100 hour work week making salary less then most of our FOís has him worn out. But oh the horror of job. Donít get me wrong, our management, union, and contract blow. We could be much much better, but.....it perspective some days.

Name User
11-19-2018, 03:19 PM
HAHA....take PRS Guitars advise and re-READ ALL my post buddy. 🤦🏼

Off the rail....Hey remember when people said ďgo be a lawyerĒ. My friend that is a lawyer is seriously considering leaving the job. The 80-100 hour work week making salary less then most of our FOís has him worn out. But oh the horror of job. Donít get me wrong, our management, union, and contract blow. We could be much much better, but.....it perspective some days.

The problem with the airlines has never been the pay or job, it's with job portability. Your carrier goes TU and you're screwed. If you're lucky you can at least hire back on with another major but chances are if it went south that much other carriers are in the same boat.

Remember just prior to 9/11 United signed an unprecedented contract, times were really good. Kinda reminds me of what is happening now.

drinksonme
11-19-2018, 06:42 PM
The problem with the airlines has never been the pay or job, it's with job portability. Your carrier goes TU and you're screwed. If you're lucky you can at least hire back on with another major but chances are if it went south that much other carriers are in the same boat.

Remember just prior to 9/11 United signed an unprecedented contract, times were really good. Kinda reminds me of what is happening now.

Every career field can go TU, we are not any different or a more special case then any other profession. Almost all careers have portability issues as well.

Name User
11-19-2018, 08:20 PM
Every career field can go TU, we are not any different or a more special case then any other profession. Almost all careers have portability issues as well.

Job hopping is how most folks get substantial raises. It's almost like you purposely misread my post. I've never gotten a raise job hopping in aviation and that includes CFI to airline. My wife got a $30k raise right off the bat from one job to another.

The problem we have isn't the industry going away (where did I say that?) it's that your COMPANY might go away. And when that happens, if you are lucky enough to go to a major right away, you start at wages that are a fraction of what you made a week prior, doing to same job. A lot of bigs have fallen, we are not immune. Your lawyer friend can take his job experience and go down the street and make similar money.

EMBFlyer
11-25-2018, 12:26 PM
LAA maintenance seem all around more hard core about the contract, thus slower getting anything fixed. My record-1.5 hours for oil service in MIA.

I don't think that's an LAA MX issue. That's just Miami. Time stands still down there.

Sliceback
11-25-2018, 05:06 PM
I don't think that's an LAA MX issue. That's just Miami. Time stands still down there.

It's at other bases too. Captain the other day got so frustrated he called the CP on his cell phone and the CP got involved.

I don't sweat it. The mechanics don't have a new contract and are frustrated.

450knotOffice
11-25-2018, 10:57 PM
LAX has MX issues off and on. Theyíre frustrated.

DarinFred
11-26-2018, 06:43 AM
So that Captain called management and tattled on another union who is currently in contract negotiations with the company?

Keep on floating your vacation, Slice...

Name User
11-26-2018, 07:23 AM
So that Captain called management and tattled on another union who is currently in contract negotiations with the company?

Keep on floating your vacation, Slice...

I'm sorry that is BS. The company has given every other group a fair contract, fleet service have held the mechanics hostage with their ineptitude and greed. Those two unions have zero clue what they are doing and the leaders have gone overboard.

This is what is so wrong with our industry and while I would be out of a job I would also love a complete do-over. Get rid of all these unions and start over. Do it the way the AMA does it, take over and control the supply of pilots which allows natural market forces to take over. At AA, we pay guys who throw bags $80k a year. Folks, that is a $12/hr job.

Mechanics are skilled labor, they were hijacked by the TWU. They belong in their own union as well.

How many here would be cool with pilots and FAs in the same union sharing the same voting power?

Sliceback
11-26-2018, 07:43 AM
So that Captain called management and tattled on another union who is currently in contract negotiations with the company?

Keep on floating your vacation, Slice...

Just reporting what I saw on the jump seat.

DarinFred
11-26-2018, 08:20 AM
Name User, the eternal management apologist. The company is loving the strife within their union. They love it more when unions turn against each other.

No where in the FM does it say for the Captain to tattle on others. Call ops with the issue, set the parking brake, and wait till they fix it. Stop making this job harder than it needs to be.

DarinFred
11-26-2018, 08:23 AM
Also, you donít set the rates for labor. Most people think airline pilots are vastly overpaid. But hereís the thing, that job is an $80k job for the same reason our job is a $200-300k job.

Name User
11-26-2018, 01:07 PM
Also, you donít set the rates for labor. Most people think airline pilots are vastly overpaid. But hereís the thing, that job is an $80k job for the same reason our job is a $200-300k job.

Oh absolutely we are overpaid thanks to unions artificially raising our pay. The AMA did it a better way, they just restrict supply. Apparently no one really has a problem with that.

Instead ALPA uses dues money to encourage people to become pilots. Sweet plan.

Name User
11-26-2018, 01:11 PM
Name User, the eternal management apologist. The company is loving the strife within their union. They love it more when unions turn against each other.

No where in the FM does it say for the Captain to tattle on others. Call ops with the issue, set the parking brake, and wait till they fix it. Stop making this job harder than it needs to be.

Honestly I care more about our customers than that. I always laugh when I read on here about how guys don't get paid enough to care. At what point would you start caring?

The mechanics in DFW have been awesome. Slow to respond but that is because they are way understaffed. Once they get there they are Johnny on the spot.

We have some real apathy issues here.

drinksonme
11-26-2018, 01:37 PM
..........

Buzzlightyear
11-26-2018, 06:42 PM
Also, you donít set the rates for labor. Most people think airline pilots are vastly overpaid. But hereís the thing, that job is an $80k job for the same reason our job is a $200-300k job.
I made $130k this year and $88k last year. Whereís this $300k you speak of??????

Arado 234
11-27-2018, 02:53 AM
I made $130k this year and $88k last year. Whereís this $300k you speak of??????

Doesn't matter. You are overpaid. Period.

Pilot X
11-27-2018, 04:02 AM
I made $130k this year and $88k last year. Whereís this $300k you speak of??????

Youíll get there someday son :D

Sliceback
11-27-2018, 06:12 AM
You’ll get there someday son :D

Right now it looks like 8-10 yrs after getting hired. At least at the junior bases.

mainlineAF
11-27-2018, 07:23 AM
Right now it looks like 8-10 yrs after getting hired. At least at the junior bases.



Group 2 captain at 5 years will make a minimum of 281k (pay+DC) next year.

If we get a new contract next year i wouldnít be surprised if they made 300k.

So closer to 6 years.

DarinFred
11-27-2018, 08:22 AM
The airline wouldn't function without each pilot, flight attendant, or ramper. Let's furlough 50-75% of the top executives for 6 months and I bet out profit margins increase significantly.

I'm paid fairly.

tomgoodman
11-27-2018, 09:30 AM
I always laugh when I read on here about how guys don't get paid enough to care. At what point would you start caring?

https://sr20.driftworks.com/forum/attachments/i-need-about-tree-fiddy-jpg.234764/

OVBIII
11-27-2018, 11:02 AM
https://sr20.driftworks.com/forum/attachments/i-need-about-tree-fiddy-jpg.234764/


You made my day!!!!! Thatís one of my favorite episodes of all time!

Buzzlightyear
11-27-2018, 11:05 AM
Youíll get there someday son :D

It only took 25 years!

Godzilla
11-27-2018, 01:42 PM
I made $130k this year and $88k last year. Whereís this $300k you speak of??????


Exactly, I have been here for 18 years. Hold highest position available to my seniority and have yet to see a 200K year in taxable income.

GHOST
11-27-2018, 02:32 PM
Exactly, I have been here for 18 years. Hold highest position available to my seniority and have yet to see a 200K year in taxable income.

I donít know your personal situation, but at 18 years that is surprising. I have been here roughly 5 years and am close to $200,000 gross. This is averaging 15-16 days off, taking full vacation, and getting creative with IMAX and premium when offered.

DarinFred
11-27-2018, 02:49 PM
Itís not that hard to make over $200k here, especially if you have any seniority.

biigD
11-27-2018, 02:57 PM
I donít know your personal situation, but at 18 years that is surprising. I have been here roughly 5 years and am close to $200,000 gross. This is averaging 15-16 days off, taking full vacation, and getting creative with IMAX and premium when offered.

Iím in the same boat - just north of $200K gross with less than 5 years on property. I donít do the premium thing, but Iím in a junior base and donít commute - so I can fly nothing but high value trips. Usually fly about 14 days per month.

My taxable is less since I put the full 18.5 into 401(k), etc, but I donít see how an 18 year guy could be making less than me - a narrowbody FO that doesnít exactly bust his ass!

A330FoodCritic
11-27-2018, 06:35 PM
a narrowbody FO that doesnít exactly bust his ass!

Padawan - You will live long and prosper.

Name User
11-27-2018, 07:46 PM
I'm on year 5 pay and will gross 180k for a taxable around 160k. That is G2 around 50% seniority flying 85-90 credit a month. I thought I had figured out imax but I guess not, haven't been imax'd at all even flying all those hours.

Arado 234
11-28-2018, 04:23 AM
Padawan - You will live long and prosper.

Staying away from those narrow body crew meals for us regular G2 peons will also add a couple of dec... years.

viper548
11-28-2018, 06:31 AM
I'm on year 5 pay and will gross 180k for a taxable around 160k. That is G2 around 50% seniority flying 85-90 credit a month. I thought I had figured out imax but I guess not, haven't been imax'd at all even flying all those hours.
IMAX is a 90 hr/mo average. In order to benefit from IMAX you need to bust your ass 10 months a year to get the benefit of IMAX. You need to be 90+ hours every month and well above 100 in the FAR MAX months.

Laker24
11-28-2018, 05:14 PM
IMAX is a 90 hr/mo average. In order to benefit from IMAX you need to bust your ass 10 months a year to get the benefit of IMAX. You need to be 90+ hours every month and well above 100 in the FAR MAX months.

Exactly. Yet the workaholics will tell you our system is superior to Deltas because you can get a month or two off with pay. They fail to mention the 10 months of busting your a$$. I would much prefer the green slip system where you can make a killing selectively.

mainlineAF
11-29-2018, 04:29 AM
The big IMAX guys donít only fly high time. They will PVD any high credit sequence they can and still fly high time lol.

My understanding of that is itís a lot harder to do that now.

Craigmac3030
12-06-2018, 02:02 PM
Any big surprises now that the March Vacancy bid is integrated with 3XP, looks like CA awards continue to creep to higher seniority numbers...

M20 Pilot
12-06-2018, 04:39 PM
Exactly, I have been here for 18 years. Hold highest position available to my seniority and have yet to see a 200K year in taxable income.

I have 19 years here. W2 last year was $249,000. I am a widebody (330) FO..... Plus the 16% matching on top of that... I did get a few premiums as well.

Heck just do the math on bidding short call as a WB FO. That alone nets you over 200,000. (assuming you have 12 years here)

Name User
12-06-2018, 07:10 PM
I have 19 years here. W2 last year was $249,000. I am a widebody (330) FO..... Plus the 16% matching on top of that... I did get a few premiums as well.

Heck just do the math on bidding short call as a WB FO. That alone nets you over 200,000. (assuming you have 12 years here)

If he contributes to traditional 401k he'd have under 200k taxable

Sliceback
12-06-2018, 07:27 PM
Any big surprises now that the March Vacancy bid is integrated with 3XP, looks like CA awards continue to creep to higher seniority numbers...

March award is after the January vacation bidding. Typically the most senior training cycle. Training over Thanksgiving, Christmas, and mid summer is often more junior.

M20 Pilot
12-07-2018, 02:33 PM
If he contributes to traditional 401k he'd have under 200k taxable


If you bid short reserve and never broke guarantee (as a wide body FO) and did not pick up any OG or PR trips that would be true. You would make around 213K in 2019 plus any profit sharing. Minus the max 18,500 401K contribution would put you just below 200K taxable.

Now if you go out and fly 85 a month as a WB FO, you are looking at around 238K, if you can pick up a few PR trips (hit and miss on that)...you will be hitting 250K.

Al Czervik
12-07-2018, 05:05 PM
I have 19 years here. W2 last year was $249,000. I am a widebody (330) FO..... Plus the 16% matching on top of that... I did get a few premiums as well.

Heck just do the math on bidding short call as a WB FO. That alone nets you over 200,000. (assuming you have 12 years here)

I think you mean gross.

PRS Guitars
12-14-2018, 03:18 PM
Meanwhile at United...group 2 Capt to April 2015 hires. Even though we have the most retirements, our upgrades are lagging. The consolation I guess, is that once one upgrades at AA over the next few years, their QOL and relative seniority will move pretty quickly.

Laker24
12-14-2018, 06:02 PM
We have more retirements but UAL is growing 5-6% and we are neutral.

viper548
12-15-2018, 05:51 AM
Meanwhile at United...group 2 Capt to April 2015 hires. Even though we have the most retirements, our upgrades are lagging. The consolation I guess, is that once one upgrades at AA over the next few years, their QOL and relative seniority will move pretty quickly.


Our upgrade time is dropping rapidly. When they first merged the lists the junior captain was around 10,000 on the list. It's now at 11,4xx. I think as people give up on PBS/TTS/TTOT many are choosing to stay senior in the right seat to have some chance of having a schedule that works for them.

Floobs
12-15-2018, 07:46 AM
We have more retirements but UAL is growing 5-6% and we are neutral.

We are also growing 3% per year. Most of Uniteds growth seems to be rjs.

Sliceback
12-15-2018, 08:05 AM
2018 guidance is about 2% at AA.

2019 is forecast to be the lowest in the industry.

Cheddar
12-15-2018, 04:53 PM
Ahhhhhhh, growth. Itís funny how we were told we needed RJís to feed the international WB flying (not that I disagree necessarily with the hub/spoke concept). UAL has the largest and from all appearances healthiest WB route structure of the Ďbig 3í and we have the largest domestic network.

After all the crap weíve been fed over the past few years, I just keep wondering why we donít have a healthier WB network if we have the required domestic feed.

Maybe Iím just jealous that we donít do SFO-Tahiti...

Or maybe we are stuck with a continuous lack of vision.

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Sliceback
12-15-2018, 05:01 PM
Ahhhhhhh, growth. Itís funny how we were told we needed RJís to feed the international WB flying (not that I disagree necessarily with the hub/spoke concept). UAL has the largest and from all appearances healthiest WB route structure of the Ďbig 3í and we have the largest domestic network.

After all the crap weíve been fed over the past few years, I just keep wondering why we donít have a healthier WB network if we have the required domestic feed.

Maybe Iím just jealous that we donít do SFO-Tahiti...

Or maybe we are stuck with a continuous lack of vision.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is our w/b flying decreasing or increasing? IDK. Looking at the upcoming Europe destinations sure makes it seem like it's going up but that might be just replacement flying as other cities are dropped.

Mgt mentions that they'd like to see if we can get stronger hubs to support more w/b flying, especially to Europe. Hopefully the stuff they're trying continues to be a success. Increasing BCN flying has been a huge success. Prague in year 1 was a 767, switching to a 330 starting in May. Same with some of the 787's replacing 767's out of PHL next winter. Hopefully some of the new destinations, especially TXL, are successful and support larger aircraft.

Cheddar
12-15-2018, 05:23 PM
Slice,

I agree with everything but I think itís a huge mistake ditching the 763 flying in a 1-1 swap for the 788s. It canít be that hard to retro fit the interiors and put money into maintaining them and then use them for our cheaper Latin America flying and Eastern European trials.

Donít get me wrong, Iím glad to see more gp4 iron(carbon I guess), but I think we are giving up a great jet to do trial runs and see what sticks.

Yes, I know that introducing new markets has many more dynamics at play other than equipment, but you get the point.

I think we are third now in WB flying if you remove the 757s out of the equation - but Iím not sure the count at DAL since they are getting the 350 deliveries and 330Neos...

Big rumor this spring was that we were getting 6-7 more 773ERs. That would have been great, but nope. The scary thing to me is that we seem to be wAAy over leveraged with new AC deliveries for EVERY fleet minus the 777. We still need a 100-130 seat S80/LAW 319 replacement too.

Crap. Now Iím scaring myself. Time for a nightcap!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TransWorld
12-15-2018, 06:25 PM
We still need a 100-130 seat S80/LAW 319 replacement too.

I keep seeing in my crystal ball that AA has A220s in their future. Good plane from several aspects. It makes sense. Not enough of anything else available. Check back on this prediction in a few years.

PRS Guitars
12-15-2018, 06:31 PM
I keep seeing in my crystal ball that AA has A220s in their future. Good plane from several aspects. It makes sense. Not enough of anything else available. Check back on this prediction in a few years.

Well, you were right about hiring this year, so I hope youíre right about this too...

TransWorld
12-15-2018, 06:36 PM
Some replacement of the Mad Dogs and old A319s.

Also, an upsize on routes that current have 76 seats. Then 76 seats replace 50 seats. 50 seats parked. Not all, but some where PAX load, frequency, and PAX growth potential makes sense.

FlyyGuyy
12-16-2018, 02:40 AM
Some replacement of the Mad Dogs and old A319s.

Also, an upsize on routes that current have 76 seats. Then 76 seats replace 50 seats. 50 seats parked. Not all, but some where PAX load, frequency, and PAX growth potential makes sense.

PSA already scheduled to park 15 200s beginning in the spring.

Sliceback
12-16-2018, 05:24 AM
Slice,

I agree with everything but I think itís a huge mistake ditching the 763 flying in a 1-1 swap for the 788s. It canít be that hard to retro fit the interiors and put money into maintaining them and then use them for our cheaper Latin America flying and Eastern European trials.

Donít get me wrong, Iím glad to see more gp4 iron(carbon I guess), but I think we are giving up a great jet to do trial runs and see what sticks.

Yes, I know that introducing new markets has many more dynamics at play other than equipment, but you get the point.

I think we are third now in WB flying if you remove the 757s out of the equation - but Iím not sure the count at DAL since they are getting the 350 deliveries and 330Neos...

Big rumor this spring was that we were getting 6-7 more 773ERs. That would have been great, but nope. The scary thing to me is that we seem to be wAAy over leveraged with new AC deliveries for EVERY fleet minus the 777. We still need a 100-130 seat S80/LAW 319 replacement too.

Crap. Now Iím scaring myself. Time for a nightcap!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The 787 will probably go on the best markets. There's still enough 767's to be rain makers or Pathfinders.

G4 total ranking - UA, AA, DL
Percentage of fleet G3+G4 ranking - UA, DL, AA
(^^^ as of the last time I checked)

The 767 is tired. That's behind the company's recent order of 12 787-8's and 787-9's. Both will be used to retire older, and mini fleet, 767 and 330-300's. At some point no maintenance program on 15-25 yr a/c can be more reliable than new a/c. The company seems to be making that move. That's the good news!

The company's stretched out some of the n/b deliveries. N/b's are the foundation for additional w/b feed unless there are stand alone O&D markets.

It would be great to get the CS, oops, A220.

TransWorld
12-16-2018, 05:34 AM
PSA already scheduled to park 15 200s beginning in the spring.

Yes, as all the remaining Envoy CRJ700s transition to PSA. They do that as Envoy receives new E175s to backfill those routes.

This is not new. It has been the plan for a couple of years now.

AFTrainerGuy
12-16-2018, 05:43 AM
Well, you were right about hiring this year, so I hope youíre right about this too...

Me too, but we need to get it out of Group 1 rates

RhinoBallAuto
12-16-2018, 05:50 AM
Me too, but we need to get it out of Group 1 rates

It would be easy to overlook what management does with G1 rates as the 190s are being sunsetted.... Which would make things ripe for disaster when they surprise announce a big G1 buy.

With DAL's success with the 220 intro, I could easily see AA wanting some -100s to operate at the "new and improved" G1 rates. ::eyeroll::

Cheddar
12-16-2018, 06:43 AM
The 787 will probably go on the best markets. There's still enough 767's to be rain makers or Pathfinders.



G4 total ranking - UA, AA, DL

Percentage of fleet G3+G4 ranking - UA, DL, AA

(^^^ as of the last time I checked)



The 767 is tired. That's behind the company's recent order of 12 787-8's and 787-9's. Both will be used to retire older, and mini fleet, 767 and 330-300's. At some point no maintenance program on 15-25 yr a/c can be more reliable than new a/c. The company seems to be making that move. That's the good news!



The company's stretched out some of the n/b deliveries. N/b's are the foundation for additional w/b feed unless there are stand alone O&D markets.



It would be great to get the CS, oops, A220.



Yep - itís all good with the Gp4 orders and I love the idea of just 2 Gp4 fleets. I just hope we have enough aircraft to try new markets like we do with the 767. This management team runs things so [email protected] thin that I have little faith in their ability to multi-task, much less have the vision to really grow in a healthy manner.

I heard that the reason we didnít order the 787-10 was that we wanted to see real performance once it hits the line with other operators. This sounds great and I think this would be a great 772 replacement. But then we have a small 773ER fleet, which they say they donít want.

As for the A220 we already have the rates in the JCBA under CS 100/300. 100ís are gp1, 300ís are gp2. I hope we get the airplane soon, and at all gp2 rates.


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bigscrillywilli
12-16-2018, 09:41 AM
Anybody know the vintage of the ďnewĒ 319s coming online starting this month? Iím sure theyíre not enhanced/sharklet.

PRS Guitars
12-16-2018, 11:14 AM
Me too, but we need to get it out of Group 1 rates

Yes or raise them significantly. Problem is during the 2015 JCBA, the G1 rates were thrown under the bus. They were already bad, and then they alone stayed as the old rates. With them parking 190ís, the G1 rates will fall thru the cracks, out of sight out of mind for the APA.ill bet right now, that they donít improve.

riel39
12-16-2018, 11:19 AM
Anybody know the vintage of the “new” 319s coming online starting this month? I’m sure they’re not enhanced/sharklet.

They just put out a service bulletin in MyMobile365 that describes them. Getting the first one tomorrow; entering service late this month. Two more in February. Eight total, only 2 are enhanced. All non-sharklet, CFM equipped. The first one’s been in paint at ROW since 11-30. It’s only nine years old; originally a Mexicana bird.

Floobs
12-16-2018, 08:02 PM
Why so few? They act like they are desperate to buy more.

Cheddar
12-16-2018, 08:26 PM
Why so few? They act like they are desperate to buy more.



They are. Low time late model 319ís are hard to find.


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Name User
12-17-2018, 05:05 AM
Slice,

I agree with everything but I think itís a huge mistake ditching the 763 flying in a 1-1 swap for the 788s. It canít be that hard to retro fit the interiors and put money into maintaining them and then use them for our cheaper Latin America flying and Eastern European trials.

Donít get me wrong, Iím glad to see more gp4 iron(carbon I guess), but I think we are giving up a great jet to do trial runs and see what sticks.

Yes, I know that introducing new markets has many more dynamics at play other than equipment, but you get the point.

I think we are third now in WB flying if you remove the 757s out of the equation - but Iím not sure the count at DAL since they are getting the 350 deliveries and 330Neos...

Big rumor this spring was that we were getting 6-7 more 773ERs. That would have been great, but nope. The scary thing to me is that we seem to be wAAy over leveraged with new AC deliveries for EVERY fleet minus the 777. We still need a 100-130 seat S80/LAW 319 replacement too.

Crap. Now Iím scaring myself. Time for a nightcap!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Getting rid of the 767's is probably a good move. As much as I dislike new aircraft and their associated costs you have to look at all the factors.


For one, the cost of mx after 20 years on a metal airframe increases expotentially, while carbon fiber aircraft remain low over their lifetime.

Amazon is actively hunting for 767's as well as many other freight operators so their resale on the used market is quite strong.

We needed to put something like $20m into each aircraft to keep them a few years, which if you beleive the press releases amounted to about 20% of the price of the 787-8's.

Lease and purchase rates are cheap right now, or were when they signed, due to depressed global interest rates. All signs point towards higher rates into the future.

It will drive further consolidation in our fleet which is good for long term efficiency gains


Just some random thoughts.

Name User
12-17-2018, 05:07 AM
They are. Low time late model 319’s are hard to find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And expensive. The C series at Delta and jetBlue pricing would be attractive IMO. But, you have to balance out the efficiencies of a single type vs multiple.

TransWorld
12-17-2018, 06:08 AM
And expensive. The C series at Delta and jetBlue pricing would be attractive IMO. But, you have to balance out the efficiencies of a single type vs multiple.

They do have to consider the cost of having an additional aircraft type. If AA were to purchase 75 A220 aircraft, the amount Delta is buying (with options for more), it would be the 4th largest fleet. B738, A321, and A319 would have more metal, all the rest fewer.

With all the Mad Dogs going away next fall, it wouldn’t mean more types of aircraft to maintain. Looking ahead, most of the A319 are Legacy America West and are 15 to 20 years old. Over the next decade they will get to that point where they should be replaced.

It appears new or ‘gently used’ A319 will be difficult to come by. Airbus has plenty of orders (and with international growth driving more orders) of A320 and A321 to keep their assembly full in Europe.

I think they will focus on selling the A220 to get their money’s worth on the purchase of them. So I can see the number of A220 suplant the A319 as that sweet spot between the regional 76 seaters and the B738 and A320/A321 larger aircraft.

drinksonme
12-17-2018, 09:19 AM
I think AA wants nothing to do with a new fleet type like the 220. Reading the tea leaves, it appears the company is trying to get newer planes but less types, and I actually think that is smart. One company has done pretty good with one fleet type for decades....just saying. Iíd would have loved to see the 350 here, as I think it is a better product then the 787, but I think it was the smart move to go with commonality long term. I believe in 10 years we will have the 737 and the 320 family doing all the domestic flying including much of SA and Hawaii. Then it will be the 787 mainly international and 777 will start to phase out along with the 330.

Reduced training costs, reduced maintenance and parts supply, easier crew staffing models. Ideally a solid operation would have one domestic aircraft and one international aircraft. Highly doubt AA cares about the 220 when they can continue to get 319ís from other operators.

Name User
12-17-2018, 09:30 AM
They do have to consider the cost of having an additional aircraft type. If AA were to purchase 75 A220 aircraft, the amount Delta is buying (with options for more), it would be the 4th largest fleet. B738, A321, and A319 would have more metal, all the rest fewer.

With all the Mad Dogs going away next fall, it wouldn’t mean more types of aircraft to maintain. Looking ahead, most of the A319 are Legacy America West and are 15 to 20 years old. Over the next decade they will get to that point where they should be replaced.

It appears new or ‘gently used’ A319 will be difficult to come by. Airbus has plenty of orders (and with international growth driving more orders) of A320 and A321 to keep their assembly full in Europe.

I think they will focus on selling the A220 to get their money’s worth on the purchase of them. So I can see the number of A220 suplant the A319 as that sweet spot between the regional 76 seaters and the B738 and A320/A321 larger aircraft.

YE 2019 numbers

A320 type - 419 (319 - 148; 320 - 48; 321 - 236)
B737 type - 344
A330 type - 24
75/76 type - 42
B777 type - 67
B787 type - 42
E190 type - 14 (going to 0)

Now breaking it down to narrow bodies:

A/C and seating:
MD80 16/124 (140) [for reference]
A319 8/120 (128)
A320 12/138 (150; -> could this be increased to similar seating as B737?)
B737 16/144 (160; -> 172 eventually)
A321 16/171 (187; will be adding a few coach on new NEOs)

It would seem to me the A320 could be eventually ruled redundant. Very similar capacity to our B737s. That leaves the 319 and 321, could they be replaced with additional product? The 321NEO is a fantastic aircraft that can also lead into the 321LR.

The 319 could definitely be replaced with a C series or E195-E2. You could also absorb the 320 fleet into additional B737 orders. But that still leaves the 321 which really has no replacement, especially the NEO.

I think maybe the best option is still to keep the 319/321 and gradually replace the 320's as they are retired with 737's.

As nice as the C series is, I just don't see how it fits into our fleet plans. We have no real need for its 4000 mile range, our transcons are generally run on the 321s. Delta is the exclusive mtc provider in the US. When paired up with the Embraer product on a sub 1000 mile range, the Embraer CASM is less.

So would we even need an E195? I just don't see it, unless they can't get any 319's at a good used price.

As far as widebodies go, I can see eventually picking up 787s used as they come off lease to replace the A330's. Now, what about the 757? There is just no replacement AFAIK. How does the 737MAX compare to the 757 performance wise? Depending on how profitable (or not) it's specific Latin America routes are, we may just decide to pack it in and leave those markets altogether.

mainlineAF
12-17-2018, 11:02 AM
June vacancy looking like it should create some good movement. Hopefully the downward trend of group 2 captains and group 4 FO continues.

AHTTD
12-17-2018, 12:47 PM
Collective thoughts from the audience on bidding into a dying fleet?. FO living in DFW. See 4 DFW/76s.

viper548
12-17-2018, 01:53 PM
Collective thoughts from the audience on bidding into a dying fleet?. FO living in DFW. See 4 DFW/76s.


I think DFW will be hanging on the 767 for a while. I think DFW and MIA will be the last 2 bases standing. They've already announced PHX and LGA going away next year. PHL is getting 787 service next year, so it's probably going after PHX and LGA. If you get displaced, you get whatever you can hold, which is nice. However, the trips may suck at the fleet dies down. If you live in base and want to stay home, reserve might be a great deal.

EMBFlyer
12-17-2018, 02:12 PM
They have no desire to get 100-seat jets at mainline. The latest "Tell Me Why" with VR talks about how we NEED RJs and we need more RJs. Same story, different day. These guys just want more RJs and have no idea how to run an airline.

TransWorld
12-17-2018, 02:28 PM
Name User -

Thanks for a factual and thoughtful post. You and I agree on many of your points. I think the A320 will be redundant and replaced with the 737. Undoubtedly there will be some consolidations on the WB.

The area where we differ is on the low end. As I see it, here are the questions:

1. Can Ďgently usedí or new A319s be acquired in sufficient quantities? That is the biggest question on which all the other questions hinge.

2. At what rate will the old A319s be retired, over the next few years to a decade out? If replacement A319s cannot be acquired, will that fleet eventually shrink?

3. How many 76 seat routes will need to be upgauged? This may be through PAX growth, pilot shortages, efficiencies, etc.

4. What deals can AA get on the A220? What is the CASM compared to alternatives? How does it fit in with route structure, range, etc.?

5. What deals can AA get on the Embraer products? CASM? Route Structure? Range?

Stay tuned to this station in 5 or 10 years; see what predictions come to pass.

Name User
12-19-2018, 10:13 AM
Name User -

Thanks for a factual and thoughtful post. You and I agree on many of your points. I think the A320 will be redundant and replaced with the 737. Undoubtedly there will be some consolidations on the WB.

The area where we differ is on the low end. As I see it, here are the questions:

1. Can ‘gently used’ or new A319s be acquired in sufficient quantities? That is the biggest question on which all the other questions hinge.

2. At what rate will the old A319s be retired, over the next few years to a decade out? If replacement A319s cannot be acquired, will that fleet eventually shrink?

3. How many 76 seat routes will need to be upgauged? This may be through PAX growth, pilot shortages, efficiencies, etc.

4. What deals can AA get on the A220? What is the CASM compared to alternatives? How does it fit in with route structure, range, etc.?

5. What deals can AA get on the Embraer products? CASM? Route Structure? Range?

Stay tuned to this station in 5 or 10 years; see what predictions come to pass.

Apparently an internal memo just posted, which confirms my suspicion of why we are jettisoning our 767's now:

This week, we signed an agreement to sell all 24 of our Boeing 767s as they leave the American fleet over the next few years. All 24 are being sold to Jetran, with 20 planned to subsequently undergo cargo conversion and be operated by ATSG.

As far as the A319 goes, I really don't know. Buying slightly used over leasing will save $1m/yr per aircraft provided similar terms to Spirit's conversion are realized.

The A320 does a lot of EOW stuff out of the east coast hubs with life rafts and HF radio. Do our 737's have HF? I honestly have no idea. I do beleive I've been on some with life rafts stored on the ceiling.

The C series has a very similar CASM to the A319NEO. Within a few points. The EMB195-E2 is rumored to have a lower CASM within 1,000 mile range of the C series. The C series would be great for a smaller airline operating out of a hub - it would enable it to compete with the larger operators on cost when flying transcons.

So the E2 will certainly have a lower CASM than an older used A319. But CASM is just one component, you must factor in additional program costs of which I am not privy to. Additional reserves, spares, training cycles, CKA, etc. I'm sure there will be some A319's come off lease as other carriers upgauge themselves. The question will be, can they be bought at a decent price point or will they be overpriced due demand and lack of supply? If fuel prices stay low, the improved performance of the NEO will be neutered.

Arado 234
12-19-2018, 06:08 PM
They just put out a service bulletin in MyMobile365 that describes them. Getting the first one tomorrow; entering service late this month. Two more in February. Eight total, only 2 are enhanced. All non-sharklet, CFM equipped. The first oneís been in paint at ROW since 11-30. Itís only nine years old; originally a Mexicana bird.

Mexicana? I hope it's not a bad omen.

EMBFlyer
12-20-2018, 01:18 PM
The A320 does a lot of EOW stuff out of the east coast hubs with life rafts and HF radio. Do our 737's have HF? I honestly have no idea. I do beleive I've been on some with life rafts stored on the ceiling.

Yes. All the 737s have 2 HFs, SELCAL and rafts. They're all EOW.



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