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View Full Version : Retired Navy Looking at Airlines


baronbvp
11-06-2018, 08:05 PM
I realize Iíve posted this in other threads, but I think we military guys are looking for the gouge wherever we can find it.

Iím a retired Navy EA-6B and FA-18 pilot and Prowler squadron CO with 3240 hours (all turbine) and 2991 hours turbine PIC. I have interviews with SkyWest and Horizon this month. My problem is I havenít flown in 14 years since my squadron change of command.

Iím treating this process like flight school - studying my butt off for the interviews and looking for them to hire me for what I bring to the table. A regional will pay for me to get my ATP so I can be a Part 121 newbie FO to gain currency and recency.

Nobody cares how many strikes I led over Iraq and Afghanistan or how many traps I have. They only care that I can learn the business, fly the jet and execute the instrument procedures, and be in a mindset to work hard and learn.

I readily accept that I will have to take the low pay and new guy scheduling to learn the ropes of a new industry. If Iím so fortunate as to get hired, I will treat my ATP-CTP course and regional ground school like flight school. Thatís how Iím playing it: Iím here to learn from the captains, build recency and currency, learn the modern airline cockpit and procedures, and help the regionals with their pilot shortage - not to do a touch and go on my way to the majors.

I think one thing old military guys like me bring to the table is weíre salty. We know how to fly a jet manually and how to recognize and deal with things like loss of airspeed indication, icing, or deep stalls that seem to have bitten some airline pilots in recent accidents. We know how to feel the energy state of an airplane. We have big picture SA and years of experience under pressure with low fuel, bad weather, breaking out at mins, going missed approach and diverting to alternates, talking to ATC in busy situations and complex airspace, overcoming inflight emergencies, and bringing the jet back no matter what. Young guys just donít have that.

OBTW, Iím 57 so only have max 8 years before I have to retire. I just want to fly again. Hopes are regional FO, upgrade to CA, and maybe a couple years of being an FO at Alaska. That path, along with no more night traps, is fine with me.


Excargodog
11-06-2018, 08:58 PM
I realize I’ve posted this in other threads, but I think we military guys are looking for the gouge wherever we can find it.

I’m a retired Navy EA-6B and FA-18 pilot and Prowler squadron CO with 3240 hours (all turbine) and 2991 hours turbine PIC. I have interviews with SkyWest and Horizon this month. My problem is I haven’t flown in 14 years since my squadron change of command.

I’m treating this process like flight school - studying my butt off for the interviews and looking for them to hire me for what I bring to the table. A regional will pay for me to get my ATP so I can be a Part 121 newbie FO to gain currency and recency.

Nobody cares how many strikes I led over Iraq and Afghanistan or how many traps I have. They only care that I can learn the business, fly the jet and execute the instrument procedures, and be in a mindset to work hard and learn.

I readily accept that I will have to take the low pay and new guy scheduling to learn the ropes of a new industry. If I’m so fortunate as to get hired, I will treat my ATP-CTP course and regional ground school like flight school. That’s how I’m playing it: I’m here to learn from the captains, build recency and currency, learn the modern airline cockpit and procedures, and help the regionals with their pilot shortage - not to do a touch and go on my way to the majors.

I think one thing old military guys like me bring to the table is we’re salty. We know how to fly a jet manually and how to recognize and deal with things like loss of airspeed indication, icing, or deep stalls that seem to have bitten some airline pilots in recent accidents. We know how to feel the energy state of an airplane. We have big picture SA and years of experience under pressure with low fuel, bad weather, breaking out at mins, going missed approach and diverting to alternates, talking to ATC in busy situations and complex airspace, overcoming inflight emergencies, and bringing the jet back no matter what. Young guys just don’t have that.

OBTW, I’m 57 so only have max 8 years before I have to retire. I just want to fly again. Hopes are regional FO, upgrade to CA, and maybe a couple years of being an FO at Alaska. That path, along with no more night traps, is fine with me.

I assume you are trying to stay within the PNW.

Options in the PNW:

Compass:
Pros: SEA base easy to get. LAX and PHX only slightly harder
You won't sit a ton of reserve
Cons: Delta contract expires in 2020 unless it gets renewed. Of course by that time with military training you may have moved on.

Horizon:
Pros: Seattle basing
Cons: Right now they got FO's up the ying-yang and you won't fly much.

Skywest:
Pros: Stable, going to be around awhile, and they'd love to have you,
Cons: you'll be sitting reserve in LaGuardia or ORD for quite awhile and you'll be awhile getting back to the PNW.

BUT YOU DON'T have to worry about a regional wanting you. They'll be glad to have you and most don't expect you to stay around very long anyway. You might also consider Hawaiian in the mix (not a bad commute from SEA) and possibly someone you coukd go to after 1000 hrs (or less)of flying at a regional. You actually have more than adequate TPIC, just get your currency, 121 chops, and move on. The first couple years pay at a major are often not a great deal better than six year regional captain pay. Go for a major FO position ASAP, unless your ego absolutely demands upgrading. Personally, I'd just content myself knowing that I had more traps and done more mid-air refueling than the AC and take the major money and 401k contributions, but your option.

My recommendation woukd be to take whatever regional lets you live in base and fly lots, get your type rating, and start putting in apps to Alaska, Hawaiian, and whoever else interests you as soon as you have 500 hours of 121 SIC.

baronbvp
11-07-2018, 06:50 AM
Thanks for the great reply, Excargodog. I live in San Diego now and SkyWest has a domicile there flying the E175. Itís easier to get than LAX or SEA so hopefully that will work out. Yes, I may have to sit reserve or commute for awhile. That is certainly true of Horizon. I will check out Compass. But your tip about trying to move on to the majors after 500 hours of 121 SIC time is gouge.

One question: if you are sitting reserve, does that mean 2 hours away from your domicile? Or does that include a commute? If Iíd have to move to Chicago to sit reserve at ORD for months, that might be a problem. If they called me in SAN and I could get to ORD, that would of course be way better. But my guess is you have to be 2 hours from the start leg.


Excargodog
11-07-2018, 07:56 AM
Thanks for the great reply, Excargodog. I live in San Diego now and SkyWest has a domicile there flying the E175. Itís easier to get than LAX or SEA so hopefully that will work out. Yes, I may have to sit reserve or commute for awhile. That is certainly true of Horizon. I will check out Compass. But your tip about trying to move on to the majors after 500 hours of 121 SIC time is gouge.

One question: if you are sitting reserve, does that mean 2 hours away from your domicile? Or does that include a commute? If Iíd have to move to Chicago to sit reserve at ORD for months, that might be a problem. If they called me in SAN and I could get to ORD, that would of course be way better. But my guess is you have to be 2 hours from the start leg.

Yeah, you actually have to be at the crew desk in two hours most places which sort of necessitates commuting in adequate time to actually be in a crash pad within that two hour travel envelope for the reserve period. And some regional's even have airport reserve.

The good news is that most airports have those crash pads for rent around them and some are reasonably nice - in fact luxurious compared to those aboard a CVN.

https://blockedinncrashpads.com/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvuXu6t_C3gIVCo9-Ch28SQFoEAAYASAAEgLs8PD_BwE

rickair7777
11-07-2018, 08:27 AM
I realize I’ve posted this in other threads, but I think we military guys are looking for the gouge wherever we can find it.

Please stick to one thread, thanks. I created one for you.


I’m a retired Navy EA-6B and FA-18 pilot and Prowler squadron CO with 3240 hours (all turbine) and 2991 hours turbine PIC. I have interviews with SkyWest and Horizon this month. My problem is I haven’t flown in 14 years since my squadron change of command.

They will both hire you immediately. Be prepared to make a choice.


I’m treating this process like flight school - studying my butt off for the interviews and looking for them to hire me for what I bring to the table. A regional will pay for me to get my ATP so I can be a Part 121 newbie FO to gain currency and recency.

Nobody cares how many strikes I led over Iraq and Afghanistan or how many traps I have. They only care that I can learn the business, fly the jet and execute the instrument procedures, and be in a mindset to work hard and learn.

Good plan. It will come back quick for a guy like you, but it's possible to fail if you have bad work ethic or attitude. Most experienced civilian pilots have a jaded attitudes toward military heroics. Most appreciate and respect it, but they also know it doesn't necessarily mean you're automatically a good airline pilot.

Don't be like iceman...

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/xk75ps


I readily accept that I will have to take the low pay and new guy scheduling to learn the ropes of a new industry. If I’m so fortunate as to get hired, I will treat my ATP-CTP course and regional ground school like flight school. That’s how I’m playing it: I’m here to learn from the captains, build recency and currency, learn the modern airline cockpit and procedures, and help the regionals with their pilot shortage - not to do a touch and go on my way to the majors.

Consider getting a little GA instrument currency before you go to class. You'll *probably* be fine without it, but better safe than sorry.


I think one thing old military guys like me bring to the table is we’re salty. We know how to fly a jet manually and how to recognize and deal with things like loss of airspeed indication, icing, or deep stalls that seem to have bitten some airline pilots in recent accidents. We know how to feel the energy state of an airplane. We have big picture SA and years of experience under pressure with low fuel, bad weather, breaking out at mins, going missed approach and diverting to alternates, talking to ATC in busy situations and complex airspace, overcoming inflight emergencies, and bringing the jet back no matter what. Young guys just don’t have that.

That's true but entry-level airline training doesn't test that, you'll need to focus on what they do test.

The airlines get all that, they just want to be sure you'll be a good ROI: Pass training, don't create conflict on line, and stick around for a while. Actually the regionals will hire all military pilots, even the ones who probably won't stick around just in the hopes than one in ten will stay for whatever reason.


OBTW, I’m 57 so only have max 8 years before I have to retire. I just want to fly again. Hopes are regional FO, upgrade to CA, and maybe a couple years of being an FO at Alaska. That path, along with no more night traps, is fine with me.

Progression to the majors is probably going to the best choice for QOL (and obviously pay). Unless you want to be certain you retire as a CA.

You will get calls from multiple majors with less than two years at a regional, just based on your military experience after the cobwebs are knocked off. The only stumbling block at an interview might be why you didn't go for airlines immediately after retirement so you'll want to have a good answer for that (didn't want to sit reserve in NY is probably not a good answer).

For PNW, I'd plan DAL as a first choice, you'll move faster than at AS due to retirement numbers. Also it's hard to get hired at AS and nobody has cracked the code on exactly what the right formula is. I know guys who were SEA born and raised, numerous internal recs, but could never get an interview, or bombed the one they did get. Others got called out of the blue and hired after applying with no history or connections. YMMV. Nothing wrong with working there, just saying it's risky to plan on getting in, or trying to predict when it might happen. Although they might like you, knowing that at your age you probably won't bother leaving for a DAL a couple years later.

FlewNavy
11-07-2018, 09:03 AM
That path, along with no more night traps, is fine with me.

Officially triggered...the thought of bringing another Blk82 Prowler aboard ship on a dark stormy night is making me have cold sweats.

On that note...PM sent.

rickair7777
11-07-2018, 09:13 AM
Officially triggered...the thought of bringing another Blk82 Prowler aboard ship on a dark stormy night is making me have cold sweats.

On that note...PM sent.

You can rest easy, they're all going to land themselves soon.

HeavyDriver
11-07-2018, 03:06 PM
Omni has home basing with widebody equipment. 1st year pay is more than 100k a year. I think you can have just the ATP written and during your type ride it will include the ATP ride. There are some risks doing this with regard to repeating a maneuver, but some pilots have done this successfully.

baronbvp
11-08-2018, 05:15 AM
Thanks for the replies, guys, and for consolidating my posts into one thread, Rickair7777. My bad on the multiple threads.

I live in San Diego now, which makes SkyWest attractive since they have a E175 domicile here. I definitely need currency and recency. I am doing a Flight Review with a CFI here at Montgomery Field next week before my first interview. I will stay humble in interviews and beyond. Should I get hired, I plan to work hard and approach everything in "new guy here to learn" mode - keep sea stories to a minimum and not be Iceman. ;)

This board is gouge for all kinds of reasons including discussions about what is currently happening at different airlines. Glad to be a member.

FlewNavy, going from the Hornet back to the Prowler was a bit of shock - losing the HUD and the radar. The Prowler was the last model in the fleet to land on the ship at night with steam gauges and no HUD. Yeesh.

HeavyDriver
11-09-2018, 07:35 AM
You can rest easy, they're all going to land themselves soon.

Magic Carpet

galaxy flyer
11-09-2018, 04:41 PM
Baronbvp,

Sorry for the thread drift and the question; I donít much about trapping, my only knowledge is from AF squadron guys. How does the HUD integrate with the ball? All I remember hearing, ďyou focus on the ball and AOA, donít spot the deckĒ. Can you look thru the HUD at the ball or the deck. I do have lots of HUD in Globals and 1,000 hours of HUD in the A-10.

GF

SaltyDog
11-09-2018, 04:58 PM
Old school simple scan "Meatball, lineup, angle of attack" repeat till surprised in the wires never fails or failed me.
You can use a HUD (until it fails). You get good at what you scan. I always liked the simplicity less technology for worst case capability with calm. When I went HUD, it was like crack, don't wanna go back. However, some stayed simple scan...meatball, lineup, AOA which I ascribed.

rickair7777
11-10-2018, 06:40 AM
Magic Carpet

Probably a good thing. Should allow the pilot screening and training COG to be the mission, as opposed to blue-water boarding reliability.

thrust
11-10-2018, 05:57 PM
Nobody cares how many strikes I led over Iraq and Afghanistan or how many traps I have. They only care that I can learn the business, fly the jet and execute the instrument procedures, and be in a mindset to work hard and learn.

Youíre right. Nobody cares about that stuff. From a fellow prior military guy.


I think one thing old military guys like me bring to the table is weíre salty. We know how to fly a jet manually and how to recognize and deal with things like loss of airspeed indication, icing, or deep stalls that seem to have bitten some airline pilots in recent accidents. We know how to feel the energy state of an airplane. We have big picture SA and years of experience under pressure with low fuel, bad weather, breaking out at mins, going missed approach and diverting to alternates, talking to ATC in busy situations and complex airspace, overcoming inflight emergencies, and bringing the jet back no matter what. Young guys just donít have that.

Yikes.

Even if this were true (you arenít necessarily any better than the ďyoung guysĒ, sorry)... probably a good idea to keep these kind of thoughts to yourself as you progress through the regionals.

Good luck with your journey.

filejw
11-12-2018, 10:35 AM
I think the most important advice here is the instrument proficiency. 14 years out is along time so getting your scan back is a top priority as they don't have time to teach it. Don't worry about MIL/CIV thing as there is always some idiot around on either side. When teaching new hires back in the day one thing military guys had ability to adapt. Something new or they had never heard of show them once and that was it. Generally they stayed within the training footprint too. Good luck.

Sliceback
11-12-2018, 11:02 AM
There is no chance, zero, none, that your flying brain, skills, SA, and instrument scan is better after a 14 yr lay-off and being 14 yrs older. Our brains donít get better after passing 40. Be prepared for the training to be a grind. Prior preparation will make it an easier, but not easy, transition. Good luck.

Packrat
11-12-2018, 11:26 AM
Thanks for the replies, guys, and for consolidating my posts into one thread, Rickair7777. My bad on the multiple threads.

Check your PMs.

SaltyDog
11-12-2018, 04:52 PM
There is no chance, zero, none, that your flying brain, skills, SA, and instrument scan is better after a 14 yr lay-off and being 14 yrs older. Our brains donít get better after passing 40. Be prepared for the training to be a grind. Prior preparation will make it an easier, but not easy, transition. Good luck.

Can't argue, all true but for a different and surprising view, took an 80 year retired Navy pilot in a jet he flew in Vietnam up for a flight in same jet after he had not flown any aircraft in 37 years. He literally flew the aircraft as if he had flown it the day before. Was shocked at his SA and skills. Hope to have that ability at his age, but doubt it :(

sourdough44
11-13-2018, 03:10 AM
I would get flying with a local club, CFI then checkout for rental. Some Ďrecency if experienceí would help, then warmup in type with any interview sim equipment.

UAL T38 Phlyer
11-13-2018, 12:16 PM
Can't argue, all true but for a different and surprising view, took an 80 year retired Navy pilot in a jet he flew in Vietnam up for a flight in same jet after he had not flown any aircraft in 37 years. He literally flew the aircraft as if he had flown it the day before. Was shocked at his SA and skills. Hope to have that ability at his age, but doubt it :(

Thatís awesome, Salty!!

baronbvp
11-18-2018, 04:41 PM
Had a great interview day before yesterday with Everts Air Cargo and another great interview yesterday with SkyWest. Hopefully Iíll have two flying job offers from which to choose by the end of this month.

baronbvp
11-24-2018, 09:00 AM
Got offered both jobs and decided to go with SkyWest due to SAN domicile, well-respected professional training (long time out of the cockpit), and flying new ERJ jets with glass cockpits. Thanks to everyone for their help. Excited to join the ranks!

UAL T38 Phlyer
11-24-2018, 10:24 AM
Got offered both jobs and decided to go with SkyWest due to SAN domicile, well-respected professional training (long time out of the cockpit), and flying new ERJ jets with glass cockpits. Thanks to everyone for their help. Excited to join the ranks!

Best Thanksgiving ever! Congrats.

Sliceback
11-24-2018, 12:54 PM
Got offered both jobs and decided to go with SkyWest due to SAN domicile, well-respected professional training (long time out of the cockpit), and flying new ERJ jets with glass cockpits. Thanks to everyone for their help. Excited to join the ranks!

Congratulations and good luck. Report back with your insights and observations after you're done with training and after several months on the line. It might help others behind you envision what's ahead of them.

155mm
11-25-2018, 06:16 AM
First of all, congratulations! Looking at their domicile map, it looks like ERJ bases along the whole west coast. Makes for an easy commute:): Pilot Jobs Ľ SkyWest Airlines (http://www.skywest.com/skywest-airline-jobs/career-guides/pilot-jobs)

Does anyone know how many years of service one has to put in with SkyWest to retire with travel benefits?

rickair7777
11-25-2018, 10:06 AM
First of all, congratulations! Looking at their domicile map, it looks like ERJ bases along the whole west coast. Makes for an easy commute:): Pilot Jobs Ľ SkyWest Airlines (http://www.skywest.com/skywest-airline-jobs/career-guides/pilot-jobs)

Does anyone know how many years of service one has to put in with SkyWest to retire with travel benefits?

Ten and age 55.

But there are some partner specific rules. For DL the ten years prior to retirement had to be on DL feed, no breaks allowed. Some folks who went to the erj when it was ual only were devastated to learn they had lost their DL retirement travel, with no possible way to get it back.

baronbvp
11-25-2018, 12:56 PM
Congratulations and good luck. Report back with your insights and observations after you're done with training and after several months on the line. It might help others behind you envision what's ahead of them.

Great idea, wilco. Thanks for congrats everyone. Now the work begins. Bring it on.

155mm
11-25-2018, 01:41 PM
Ten and age 55.

But there are some partner specific rules. For DL the ten years prior to retirement had to be on DL feed, no breaks allowed. Some folks who went to the erj when it was ual only were devastated to learn they had lost their DL retirement travel, with no possible way to get it back.

So if one gets hired at SkyWest after age >55, they don't receive travel benefits at an age 65 retirement. Does anyone know about Southwest or other carriers that give travel benefits upon retirement with less than 10 years of employment regardless of age?

Packrat
11-25-2018, 01:59 PM
Great idea, wilco. Thanks for congrats everyone. Now the work begins. Bring it on.

Just remember, being an F/O at a regional means being the ultimate chameleon, especially with your history. You're going to have to sit next to a twenty something Captain with 1/10th of your experience and maintain ziplip for at least two years until you can upgrade.


Best of luck.

baronbvp
11-25-2018, 02:29 PM
Just remember, being an F/O at a regional means being the ultimate chameleon, especially with your history. You're going to have to sit next to a twenty something Captain with 1/10th of your experience and maintain ziplip for at least two years until you can upgrade.


Best of luck.
Absolutely. :)

Sliceback
11-25-2018, 04:57 PM
Just remember, being an F/O at a regional means being the ultimate chameleon, especially with your history. You're going to have to sit next to a twenty something Captain with 1/10th of your experience and maintain ziplip for at least two years until you can upgrade.


Best of luck.

When he hits the line the Captain, even a young one, will have thousands hours more regional flying than he does. There's a learning curve for everyone.

As a retired F-18 guy said "I'm impressed by how good the training is and how sharp the guys are."

And a retired B-52(?) guy said he was surprised at the complexity of basic, but normal, airline flying. SID's, STAR's, fast turns, busy taxi clearances, reroutes, variety of approach types, high tempo ops, radio chatter, etc. Land, unload, grab a quick bite and a pee, reload, and launch again.

Every job, every seat, has a learning curve. Between switching seats or aircraft I've done it about 28 times. I you add in different regions in the world it goes over 30. Going to the next assignment means learning that job instead of believing I know it because I've done it x times before. Doing it x times over helps. Some stuff transfers, some doesn't transfer to the new job. That's part of the learning curve.

That's why I mentioned to come back with your impressions. The F-18 and B-52 guys did. It's interesting reading their impressions since they have a new perspective on it.

trip
11-25-2018, 05:15 PM
Got offered both jobs and decided to go with SkyWest due to SAN domicile, well-respected professional training (long time out of the cockpit), and flying new ERJ jets with glass cockpits. Thanks to everyone for their help. Excited to join the ranks!

Glad to have you onboard. Will be looking forward to some good stories for those long legs across flyover country!

rickair7777
11-25-2018, 07:11 PM
When he hits the line the Captain, even a young one, will have thousands hours more regional flying than he does. There's a learning curve for everyone.

As a retired F-18 guy said "I'm impressed by how good the training is and how sharp the guys are."

And a retired B-52(?) guy said he was surprised at the complexity of basic, but normal, airline flying. SID's, STAR's, fast turns, busy taxi clearances, reroutes, variety of approach types, high tempo ops, radio chatter, etc. Land, unload, grab a quick bite and a pee, reload, and launch again.

Every job, every seat, has a learning curve. Between switching seats or aircraft I've done it about 28 times. I you add in different regions in the world it goes over 30. Going to the next assignment means learning that job instead of believing I know it because I've done it x times before. Doing it x times over helps. Some stuff transfers, some doesn't transfer to the new job. That's part of the learning curve.

That's why I mentioned to come back with your impressions. The F-18 and B-52 guys did. It's interesting reading their impressions since they have a new perspective on it.

Yes, past experience predicts your ability to learn a new gig, but does not inherently bestow on you the ability to perform the gig. You still have to learn it.

Otterbox
11-25-2018, 08:02 PM
Just remember, being an F/O at a regional means being the ultimate chameleon, especially with your history. You're going to have to sit next to a twenty something Captain with 1/10th of your experience and maintain ziplip for at least two years until you can upgrade.


Best of luck.

Those twenty something Captains often have more time in type flying to airports in the network than a military guy has in total time. They may not have as wide a variety of experience but they are experts in their field.

I’ve flown with several and have often found they’ve got a lot of useful techniques that make every day life easier, especially the ones that had thousands of hrs of FO time in the same jet under their belt before they went to upgrade. They’ve also got plenty of experience dealing with the variety of MELs that seem to pop up on originators at 5am.

I’ve also flown with seasoned captains who are newly transitioned to the respective jet. They’ve got a wider variety of experience but it’s more interesting when the FO is the resident expert on the jet and they’re still pretty new themselves.

Given those two scenarios, I much prefer to fly with the 20 something captains...

baronbvp
11-25-2018, 08:12 PM
These are great points that I fully understand. Iím the new guy and I have much to learn from everyone. Appreciate the engagement on this forum! Will definitely come back with my impressions and lessons learned.

baronbvp
11-25-2018, 08:14 PM
Glad to have you onboard. Will be looking forward to some good stories for those long legs across flyover country!



Thanks! Looking forward to all of it. And to be back with pilots again.

Packrat
11-26-2018, 07:20 AM
Yep, its those superb regional Captains are the reason we have federally mandated EET training starting March 19th.

rickair7777
11-26-2018, 07:42 AM
Yep, its those superb regional Captains are the reason we have federally mandated EET training starting March 19th.

What's that?

Excargodog
11-26-2018, 08:31 AM
These are great points that I fully understand. Iím the new guy and I have much to learn from everyone. Appreciate the engagement on this forum! Will definitely come back with my impressions and lessons learned.

Hey, it could be worse. If you want a social dilemma:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fedex/117392-when-your-fos-landed-space-shuttle.html

155mm
11-26-2018, 09:06 AM
What's that?
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.423

The training I went through was called Upset Recovery training (URT) or how to handle an upset stomach after consuming crew catering. Bring it on, it sounds fun!

rickair7777
11-26-2018, 09:15 AM
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/121.423

The training I went through was called Upset Recovery training (URT) or how to handle an upset stomach after consuming crew catering. Bring it on, it sounds fun!

Oh that. Yeah that came about because of RJ shenanigans and the puppy-mill-to-RJ fast track pipeline.

I'm looking forward to it, does sound fun.

baronbvp
11-26-2018, 10:03 AM
Hey, it could be worse. If you want a social dilemma:



https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fedex/117392-when-your-fos-landed-space-shuttle.html



That is awesome. Iíd heard that but seeing the photos makes it real. David Lee Roth became an EMT in New York. Apparently most of his patients never knew who he was because he never volunteered it unless they recognized him.

Space Shuttle thread is also excellent. Thereís a good message there. Humility goes a long way. In the end, as was said before, itís all about how you cooperate that day on that flight. Crew concept, baby.

trip
11-26-2018, 03:26 PM
Yep, its those superb regional Captains are the reason we have federally mandated EET training starting March 19th.

I've done the CBT portion and yes Colgan Dash 400 was mentioned as well as Air France and the Russian 737. They also showed a study with typed and active 737 pilot volunteers in the SIM and when faced with unexpected full upsets an eye opening approx 70% applied incorrect recovery procedures. They also highlighted the old PTS standards of minimum altitude loss requirement and muscle memory that came with the old way of training.

John Carr
11-26-2018, 06:01 PM
They also highlighted the old PTS standards of minimum altitude loss requirement and muscle memory that came with the old way of training.

One of the dumbest things ever.

Packrat
11-27-2018, 06:09 AM
I've done the CBT portion and yes Colgan Dash 400 was mentioned as well as Air France and the Russian 737. .

True. But it was Colgan and the passenger's families that made it a political issue that became a mandated Federal Law.

rickair7777
11-27-2018, 06:53 AM
They also highlighted the old PTS standards of minimum altitude loss requirement and muscle memory that came with the old way of training.

Theory was that systems would prevent a full stall, so the idea was to recover from an approaching stall.

Pulling the yoke into your navel was never going to work out though.



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