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View Full Version : FO Hiring


jriveraaw
11-08-2018, 06:34 AM
Does anyone happen to know if Envoy has started hiring street FO's again? It seems like its only cadets or DEC getting hired.


EmbaeDriver
11-08-2018, 07:08 AM
Call a recruiter

jriveraaw
11-08-2018, 10:02 AM
Call a recruiter

I did, he wouldn't flat out tell me they weren't, but kinda skirted around the idea that they were. So if anyone has been in a class recently that had any of us "normal folk" in it, they would know.


Voski
11-08-2018, 01:15 PM
I was hired recently. When I interviewed, recruiting said they were hiring "less than 20 per month" but will be "opening the floodgates" sometime in 2019.

They (allegedly) have a large number of FOs getting ready to upgrade and are going to need new bodies in the right seat.

Skip0927
11-08-2018, 04:40 PM
The word was the pipeline was well stocked and full for the next several months. With the announcement of more 175s, recruiting is needing to up their game to meet the increased demand for fresh blood.

dera
11-08-2018, 05:00 PM
Does anyone happen to know if Envoy has started hiring street FO's again? It seems like its only cadets or DEC getting hired.

Yes, they are hiring off the street. They are just pretty selective.

Paid2fly
11-08-2018, 05:47 PM
Yes, they are hiring off the street. They are just pretty selective.










Fog a mirror and chew gum at the same time?:confused:








:eek:

njd1
11-08-2018, 05:56 PM
Got through Republic's E170 training on schedule last month but busted the checkride. They threw me out with the trash.

I applied elsewhere and added an app to Envoy when I heard the news of the ramp up in 175s. Got interview requests from two carriers within 12 and 24 hours respectively. Envoy responded within 12 hours but with a TBNT. Interviewed with the first two carriers and explained what happened. They both understood and gave me CJOs. Starting class with my first choice next week.

If Envoy is hiring they are being selective and not hiring anyone with a recent 121 failure. Stupid, IMO, since I could pass 175 training with my eyes closed at this point but hey...the company wants what it wants.

dera
11-08-2018, 06:25 PM
Got through Republic's E170 training on schedule last month but busted the checkride. They threw me out with the trash.

I applied elsewhere and added an app to Envoy when I heard the news of the ramp up in 175s. Got interview requests from two carriers within 12 and 24 hours respectively. Envoy responded within 12 hours but with a TBNT. Interviewed with the first two carriers and explained what happened. They both understood and gave me CJOs. Starting class with my first choice next week.

If Envoy is hiring they are being selective and not hiring anyone with a recent 121 failure. Stupid, IMO, since I could pass 175 training with my eyes closed at this point but hey...the company wants what it wants.

They are hiring, but very very few people. It's not about passing training. Our interview group (of 4) had a military pilot, really sharp guy. He got a no thanks after the interview.
They said they interview only a few FO candidates a week. Most resumes get the automatic "However, the interview selection process is highly competitive, and we are unable to offer you an interview at this time"

bigtime209
11-08-2018, 06:50 PM
Got through Republic's E170 training on schedule last month but busted the checkride. They threw me out with the trash.

I applied elsewhere and added an app to Envoy when I heard the news of the ramp up in 175s. Got interview requests from two carriers within 12 and 24 hours respectively. Envoy responded within 12 hours but with a TBNT. Interviewed with the first two carriers and explained what happened. They both understood and gave me CJOs. Starting class with my first choice next week.

If Envoy is hiring they are being selective and not hiring anyone with a recent 121 failure. Stupid, IMO, since I could pass 175 training with my eyes closed at this point but hey...the company wants what it wants.

Huh?? You couldn't pass the checkride but in your eyes you passed with your eyes closed? Am I reading this wrong?

BigZ
11-08-2018, 06:54 PM
Huh?? You couldn't pass the checkride but in your eyes you passed with your eyes closed? Am I reading this wrong?

I think he means he learned from his mistakes.

Off the street FOs are interviewing, but definitely no floodgate.

jriveraaw
11-08-2018, 07:57 PM
They are hiring, but very very few people. It's not about passing training. Our interview group (of 4) had a military pilot, really sharp guy. He got a no thanks after the interview.
They said they interview only a few FO candidates a week. Most resumes get the automatic "However, the interview selection process is highly competitive, and we are unable to offer you an interview at this time"

I applied a couple months ago and got a thanks but no thanks within like the hour. I applied again earlier this week, no response yet but at least itís not the super quick no like last time.

I actually have a rather odd case. I was with Mesa, got through the CRJ training, but right before IOE, some serious contract violations were discovered and I got out before I took the bonus and got locked in for 2 years. So I have an ATP and all, but just no real 121 time. So Iím sure Iím at the bottom of the barrel for applicants.

dera
11-08-2018, 08:07 PM
I applied a couple months ago and got a thanks but no thanks within like the hour. I applied again earlier this week, no response yet but at least itís not the super quick no like last time.

I actually have a rather odd case. I was with Mesa, got through the CRJ training, but right before IOE, some serious contract violations were discovered and I got out before I took the bonus and got locked in for 2 years. So I have an ATP and all, but just no real 121 time. So Iím sure Iím at the bottom of the barrel for applicants.

I've got no prior 121 time. That's not the thing (I don't know what is).

jriveraaw
11-08-2018, 08:12 PM
I've got no prior 121 time. That's not the thing (I don't know what is).

From what I understand is that if you have an ATP they compare you with others who have an ATP, not the ones who only have a CMEL. I may be wrong.

Varsity
11-08-2018, 08:17 PM
I talked to a recruiter earlier this week who very blatently said "We DO NOT need FOs'"

Prior 121 time, prior 135 Tjet time, military sure.

ots FO's. Not now, maybe in spring.

jriveraaw
11-08-2018, 08:53 PM
I talked to a recruiter earlier this week who very blatently said "We DO NOT need FOs'"

Prior 121 time, prior 135 Tjet time, military sure.

ots FO's. Not now, maybe in spring.

Off to republic then.

greendotplus10
11-08-2018, 09:00 PM
I applied a couple months ago and got a thanks but no thanks within like the hour. I applied again earlier this week, no response yet but at least itís not the super quick no like last time.

I actually have a rather odd case. I was with Mesa, got through the CRJ training, but right before IOE, some serious contract violations were discovered and I got out before I took the bonus and got locked in for 2 years. So I have an ATP and all, but just no real 121 time. So Iím sure Iím at the bottom of the barrel for applicants.

Would you care to elaborate on that part?

dera
11-08-2018, 09:01 PM
Fact is - Envoy and Compass are the hardest regional seats to get right now. Things might change next year with new 175 deliveries.

jriveraaw
11-08-2018, 09:17 PM
Would you care to elaborate on that part?

Essentially the class after us was awarded bases before us. Ours was a 15th of the month class, next up was 22nd. Standing bids were awarded at the end of each month. The class starting the 22nd got their awards that month, we got ours the following month. They got all the bases we bid for (mostly dfw) and we ended up getting base locked in IAD without being notified. According to them, we were awarded a base the previous cycle...before we were even employees, even though there was never a record of us being awarded anything.

dera
11-08-2018, 09:54 PM
Essentially the class after us was awarded bases before us. Ours was a 15th of the month class, next up was 22nd. Standing bids were awarded at the end of each month. The class starting the 22nd got their awards that month, we got ours the following month. They got all the bases we bid for (mostly dfw) and we ended up getting base locked in IAD without being notified. According to them, we were awarded a base the previous cycle...before we were even employees, even though there was never a record of us being awarded anything.

Out of curiosity, what would you do at Envoy if you got awarded ORD CRJ?

jriveraaw
11-08-2018, 10:01 PM
Out of curiosity, what would you do at Envoy if you got awarded ORD CRJ?

Probably shoot myself just like anyone else. Itís not necessarily a matter of getting a base I want but rather doing everything the right way. If a company is so willing to just blatantly disregard a contract like Mesa then theyíre not someone I wanna work for.

dera
11-08-2018, 10:16 PM
Probably shoot myself just like anyone else. Itís not necessarily a matter of getting a base I want but rather doing everything the right way. If a company is so willing to just blatantly disregard a contract like Mesa then theyíre not someone I wanna work for.

That's a fair point.
Not 100% sure if such regional exists though, based on what people are saying.

jriveraaw
11-09-2018, 03:51 AM
That's a fair point.
Not 100% sure if such regional exists though, based on what people are saying.

Iím hoping, at least with envoy, that living in base and an eventual flow would offset any negative aspects. I do only live about 3 hours from Houston so that does give me other options.

CaptJackSparrow
11-09-2018, 04:37 AM
If a company is so willing to just blatantly disregard a contract like Mesa then theyíre not someone I wanna work for.

You might want to cross Envoy off your list too then.

jriveraaw
11-09-2018, 04:53 AM
You might want to cross Envoy off your list too then.

The only reason I haven't yet is living in base and a flow. It pretty apparent that you wont find a "good" regional, but rather one just simply sucks less than others. Mesa is at the very bottom, maybe just above expressjet. I think Envoy is somewhere in the middle.

Jamesthunder
11-09-2018, 05:15 AM
The only reason I haven't yet is living in base and a flow. It pretty apparent that you wont find a "good" regional, but rather one just simply sucks less than others. Mesa is at the very bottom, maybe just above expressjet. I think Envoy is somewhere in the middle.

I'd argue that flow should not be on your list. As it stands for incoming pilots, the flow is nearly a decade. With as volatile as the industry is, it may as well not be in the table.

YLpilot
11-09-2018, 05:54 AM
The only reason I haven't yet is living in base and a flow. It pretty apparent that you wont find a "good" regional, but rather one just simply sucks less than others. Mesa is at the very bottom, maybe just above expressjet. I think Envoy is somewhere in the middle.
In what universe is XJT worse than Mesa? What are you looking at? Upgrade time maybe? Just trying to grasp at what people are looking at when they are choosing nowadays.

jriveraaw
11-09-2018, 07:20 AM
In what universe is XJT worse than Mesa? What are you looking at? Upgrade time maybe? Just trying to grasp at what people are looking at when they are choosing nowadays.

Mostly potential, fleet, and bases. XJT (as far as I know) only flies the 145, and has closed a base and lost or currently losing pretty big contracts recently. Iím sure QOL is much better than Mesa, but idk.

jriveraaw
11-09-2018, 07:22 AM
I'd argue that flow should not be on your list. As it stands for incoming pilots, the flow is nearly a decade. With as volatile as the industry is, it may as well not be in the table.

I guess the flow is more of a fall back than anything, being that itís (at least currently) guaranteed.

highfarfast
11-09-2018, 07:59 AM
I guess the flow is more of a fall back than anything, being that itís (at least currently) guaranteed.

Guaranteed... Hmmmm...

It's massive hiring that makes us think a 9 year flow to be irrelevant. IF something happens such the massive hiring stops, so does the flow. Flow is a percentage of the classes.

Only way flow should matter for a new hire is unfixable resume issues.

jriveraaw
11-09-2018, 09:21 AM
Guaranteed... Hmmmm...

It's massive hiring that makes us think a 9 year flow to be irrelevant. IF something happens such the massive hiring stops, so does the flow. Flow is a percentage of the classes.

Only way flow should matter for a new hire is unfixable resume issues.

Thatís why I say fall back. Like a safety net. A lot of people these days are staying with their current regional for 5+ years. So if I did the same, because maybe I liked where I was or comfortable with the seniority and my time happens to come, itís a good option, one that not many regionals have.

NoValueAviator
11-09-2018, 10:16 AM
Guaranteed... Hmmmm...

It's massive hiring that makes us think a 9 year flow to be irrelevant. IF something happens such the massive hiring stops, so does the flow. Flow is a percentage of the classes.

Only way flow should matter for a new hire is unfixable resume issues.

The theoretical max number of Envoy flow is determined by percentages of AA's hiring, but we flow the minimum allowed pace and probably always will. The flow is actually less valuable when AA is hiring like crazy, because you won't get out of here any faster but when you do, you'll spend the rest of your career stuck underneath everyone hired during the spree.

Optimum AA hiring for flowbots is a trickle but enough seats for min flows < percentage of class.

njd1
11-09-2018, 11:31 AM
Huh?? You couldn't pass the checkride but in your eyes you passed with your eyes closed? Am I reading this wrong?

I'm saying that I was close to passing (I botched the second to last maneuver of the recheck), so repeating essentially the entire program elsewhere and going through all the sims again would in fact be a guaranteed pass.

It's not that I didn't know how to fly the thing. I received complements from both instructors and APDs on my hand flown approaches, etc. It was that I did not receive enough repetition on three manuevers to become sufficeintly comfortable with them. Not surprisingly, these maneuvers are also the cause of a majority of the checkride failures. So it's not just me.

jriveraaw
11-09-2018, 11:50 AM
The theoretical max number of Envoy flow is determined by percentages of AA's hiring, but we flow the minimum allowed pace and probably always will. The flow is actually less valuable when AA is hiring like crazy, because you won't get out of here any faster but when you do, you'll spend the rest of your career stuck underneath everyone hired during the spree.

Optimum AA hiring for flowbots is a trickle but enough seats for min flows < percentage of class.

This is true if youíre relying only on the flow. If you were at a wholly owned thereís no reason you couldnít apply before itís your time to flow. So thereís definitely multiple options, but the flow will be there just in case.

highfarfast
11-09-2018, 01:28 PM
Just in case what?

Assuming you don't have unfixable resume issues, what scenario is there that flow will get you to a major faster than an OTS?

highfarfast
11-09-2018, 01:29 PM
The theoretical max number of Envoy flow is determined by percentages of AA's hiring, but we flow the minimum allowed pace and probably always will. The flow is actually less valuable when AA is hiring like crazy, because you won't get out of here any faster but when you do, you'll spend the rest of your career stuck underneath everyone hired during the spree.

Optimum AA hiring for flowbots is a trickle but enough seats for min flows < percentage of class.

The point I was trying to make is that if hiring comes to a stand still, so does flow. It's being metered to less than the percentage because the percentage is higher than the metering rate. But if AA is not hiring, or is hiring very little, that flow slows down or stops as well. It's not a guarantee like, "well, in 9 years I'll be at American" kind of guarantee.

jriveraaw
11-09-2018, 02:07 PM
Just in case what?

Assuming you don't have unfixable resume issues, what scenario is there that flow will get you to a major faster than an OTS?

You guys seem stuck on this thought that Iím saying the flow exists as the only avenue to a major. When I say ďjust in caseĒ, Iím talking about those instances where someone doesnít bother applying at a major prior to the flow. Not because of some unfixable thing on a resume or something stupid. I say this because I know of very few individuals who have spent just a year or two before going off to a major. A lot of people spend a long time at a regional, usually 5+ years. So the flow being there provides another avenue to AA if you just never applied elsewhere.

highfarfast
11-09-2018, 03:19 PM
You guys seem stuck on this thought that I’m saying the flow exists as the only avenue to a major. When I say “just in case”, I’m talking about those instances where someone doesn’t bother applying at a major prior to the flow. Not because of some unfixable thing on a resume or something stupid. I say this because I know of very few individuals who have spent just a year or two before going off to a major. A lot of people spend a long time at a regional, usually 5+ years. So the flow being there provides another avenue to AA if you just never applied elsewhere.

OK, if you're AA or bust this makes sense. But that begs the question, why are you AA or bust? Otherwise:

Well yeah, if you just never applied anywhere. But just want to make sure you know where the flow is for a new hire. Union projection is 9 years based on metered rates (metered rates has always been maximum rate).

And why wouldn't you apply everywhere? Based on hiring forecasts for the next several years, you should be getting hired in less than... correction... MUCH less than 9 years. And what I've been trying to say is that if industry hiring slows, so does flow. Slow flow means worse than 9 years.

I just don't see the value in flow for a current new hire unless they have some kind of issues like a history of training failures or a DUI or something like that OR if they're an AA or bust kind of pilot.

No college degree? Well that's certainly fixable in less than 9 years even if starting from scratch and may not even be an issue for some carriers in the not to distant future so I personally won't put that one in the non-fixable category.

starkutt1
11-09-2018, 03:37 PM
Got through Republic's E170 training on schedule last month but busted the checkride. They threw me out with the trash.

I applied elsewhere and added an app to Envoy when I heard the news of the ramp up in 175s. Got interview requests from two carriers within 12 and 24 hours respectively. Envoy responded within 12 hours but with a TBNT. Interviewed with the first two carriers and explained what happened. They both understood and gave me CJOs. Starting class with my first choice next week.

If Envoy is hiring they are being selective and not hiring anyone with a recent 121 failure. Stupid, IMO, since I could pass 175 training with my eyes closed at this point but hey...the company wants what it wants.

If you donít mind me asking what did you fail on? And was it the first time or 2nd try ?

jriveraaw
11-09-2018, 03:46 PM
OK, if you're AA or bust this makes sense. But that begs the question, why are you AA or bust? Otherwise:

Well yeah, if you just never applied anywhere. But just want to make sure you know where the flow is for a new hire. Union projection is 9 years based on metered rates (metered rates has always been maximum rate).

And why wouldn't you apply everywhere? Based on hiring forecasts for the next several years, you should be getting hired in less than... correction... MUCH less than 9 years. And what I've been trying to say is that if industry hiring slows, so does flow. Slow flow means worse than 9 years.

Not AA or bust. Not saying I wouldnít apply anywhere else. Projections arenít worth the paper theyíre written on. A couple years ago the projections were 3 years, then 10, now I guess it is where it is. We donít know where the industry is gonna be in 6 months let alone a decade. And not everyone decides to move on after the regionals as soon as they can. While you may, and most may plan to, itís not always the case. So like I said, IF you find yourself at a wholly owned with a flow and IF you find yourself comfortable where you are and decide to stay for 7-10 years and then decide to go to a major, guess what, the flow is there. To me, that is valuable. May not be to you, but it is to me.

Not once have I mentioned anything about any sort of resume fixing, not even worth a discussion.

njd1
11-09-2018, 05:14 PM
If you don’t mind me asking what did you fail on? And was it the first time or 2nd try ?

If you look back through my post history you'll find a gouge (not complete, but more detailed). However, I'll give you the highlights here:

My nemesis in that airplane was the single engine hand flown published missed approach. Had only flown one (on the mock checkride) after the instructor asked me if I'd done one and I said no, despite that checkbox being checked on my prior training records. In other words, it was an instructor mistake or oversight. But I don't want to harp on the instructors...they were all quite good.

After I botched the missed I elected to continue the checkride since I was more or less insulated from another failure for the duration. I then botched the V1 cut. Not a crash or anything...just a bank angle warning. We did a few more maneuvers and then ran out of time for that session.

I performed the botched maneuvers to standards on the recheck and then made another really stupid mistake on the second to last maneuver that I had made one other time in training. Can't really explain why I did it. Probably just task saturation / nerves.

For a GA pilot transitioning to a Jet with 0 turbine time I think I did pretty damn well, but they expect you to be essentially perfect with what I consider to be minimal training, and I accepted a long time ago I'm far from perfect. Knowing that has made me a safe pilot, but checkrides are pass/fail and there's nothing I can do about that other than ensure I train to proficiency.

The interesting news is my new company just upped the number of sims from 10 to 13 because (surprise, surprise) the washout rate was too high so I'll get more than enough sim time to polish my rough edges this time around. Sad that Republic had to toss me...I was actually looking forward to working for them long term as an instructor. Oh well.

MD-11Loader
11-09-2018, 05:33 PM
If you look back through my post history you'll find a gouge (not complete, but more detailed). However, I'll give you the highlights here:

My nemesis in that airplane was the single engine hand flown published missed approach. Had only flown one (on the mock checkride) after the instructor asked me if I'd done one and I said no, despite that checkbox being checked on my prior training records. In other words, it was an instructor mistake or oversight. But I don't want to harp on the instructors...they were all quite good.

After I botched the missed I elected to continue the checkride since I was more or less insulated from another failure for the duration. I then botched the V1 cut. Not a crash or anything...just a bank angle warning. We did a few more maneuvers and then ran out of time for that session.

I performed the botched maneuvers to standards on the recheck and then made another really stupid mistake on the second to last maneuver that I had made one other time in training. Can't really explain why I did it. Probably just task saturation / nerves.

For a GA pilot transitioning to a Jet with 0 turbine time I think I did pretty damn well, but they expect you to be essentially perfect with what I consider to be minimal training, and I accepted a long time ago I'm far from perfect. Knowing that has made me a safe pilot, but checkrides are pass/fail and there's nothing I can do about that other than ensure I train to proficiency.

The interesting news is my new company just upped the number of sims from 10 to 13 because (surprise, surprise) the washout rate was too high so I'll get more than enough sim time to polish my rough edges this time around. Sad that Republic had to toss me...I was actually looking forward to working for them long term as an instructor. Oh well.

Most of us were GA pilots transitioning to a jet for the first time and we did it in seven simulator sessions then did the MV in sim eight and the QLOE in sim nine. Youíre not going to get a lot of sympathy here for not being able to do it. Being able to spread a training program out over thirteen sim sessions will be a tremendous benefit.

highfarfast
11-09-2018, 07:02 PM
Not AA or bust. Not saying I wouldnít apply anywhere else. Projections arenít worth the paper theyíre written on. A couple years ago the projections were 3 years, then 10, now I guess it is where it is. We donít know where the industry is gonna be in 6 months let alone a decade. And not everyone decides to move on after the regionals as soon as they can. While you may, and most may plan to, itís not always the case. So like I said, IF you find yourself at a wholly owned with a flow and IF you find yourself comfortable where you are and decide to stay for 7-10 years and then decide to go to a major, guess what, the flow is there. To me, that is valuable. May not be to you, but it is to me.

Not once have I mentioned anything about any sort of resume fixing, not even worth a discussion.

Resume fixing: Never tried to insinuate you did. Just saying bad resume is the only reason to value flow for a current hire. And I've yet to see a reason to change that stance.

Flow projections have never been 3 years for a new hire at Envoy... ever. They were lower a couple years ago than they are now though. If you don't know why it's different for different hire dates, you don't understand how it works.

There are reasons to come to Envoy. AA or bust is one of them. Resume issues is another, though I get the impression that 'fog a mirror' is no longer enough for Envoy. Flow is not one of the reasons to come here.

But Envoy keeps filling classes for that 9 year flow so some pilots are valuing it.

dera
11-09-2018, 07:13 PM
There are reasons to come to Envoy. AA or bust is one of them. Resume issues is another, though I get the impression that 'fog a mirror' is no longer enough for Envoy. Flow is not one of the reasons to come here.


Far from it. It's a difficult seat to get. A lot of my friends who were more than qualified got the TBNT. Most ended up at Endeavor or Republic. All with turbine time and good resumes.

NoValueAviator
11-09-2018, 07:24 PM
Isnít Republic AQP for initial on the 175?

dera
11-09-2018, 07:26 PM
Isnít Republic AQP for initial on the 175?

Not yet.

filler.

highfarfast
11-09-2018, 07:54 PM
It's that 'guarantee' word that's getting me. Like it means something.

NoValueAviator
11-09-2018, 08:12 PM
Can we all agree that double 121 practical test failure is definitely a reason to value the flow? Iíd already be blocking alleys with a 145 over at Piedmont in your shoes. I know they had AQP on the Dash...

Actually, Iíd rather be there myself, since I wound up on the east coast with a wasted year in a crappy jet anyway, lol

highfarfast
11-09-2018, 08:25 PM
Can we all agree that double 121 practical test failure is definitely a reason to value the flow?

That falls into the category of 'unfixable resume issues' I mentioned prior. I don't say that to sound judgmental. But it does make getting hired to a major more difficult.

So yeah, I agree with that.

Fixable resume issues would be total time, turbine time, PIC time, volunteering and community involvement, level of education, etc.


And by resume, I really mean the totality of your application.

jriveraaw
11-10-2018, 05:46 AM
Resume fixing: Never tried to insinuate you did. Just saying bad resume is the only reason to value flow for a current hire. And I've yet to see a reason to change that stance.

Flow projections have never been 3 years for a new hire at Envoy... ever. They were lower a couple years ago than they are now though. If you don't know why it's different for different hire dates, you don't understand how it works.

There are reasons to come to Envoy. AA or bust is one of them. Resume issues is another, though I get the impression that 'fog a mirror' is no longer enough for Envoy. Flow is not one of the reasons to come here.

But Envoy keeps filling classes for that 9 year flow so some pilots are valuing it.

Back in 2016, I interviewed with envoy hoping to get into their cadet program, they said I couldnít because I was working for a state flight school as a cfi. When I went, at the time they were in fact projecting 3 year flows for the current new hires. It has quite obviously since changed.

But like I said, flows may not be important to some, but itís a nice thing for me. I donít have any resume issues, no 121 failures, I have a 4 year degree, prior military, 141 asst chief/check instructor, havenít even gotten so much as a speeding ticket in the past 15 years, not really anything negative on my resume. But I do live in central Texas, therefore a Texas based company is beneficial. Envoy to AA is preferred, but republic (no flow) and then maybe United is also a possibility.

CaptJackSparrow
11-10-2018, 09:42 AM
Back in 2016, I interviewed with envoy hoping to get into their cadet program, they said I couldnít because I was working for a state flight school as a cfi. When I went, at the time they were in fact projecting 3 year flows for the current new hires. It has quite obviously since changed.

But like I said, flows may not be important to some, but itís a nice thing for me. I donít have any resume issues, no 121 failures, I have a 4 year degree, prior military, 141 asst chief/check instructor, havenít even gotten so much as a speeding ticket in the past 15 years, not really anything negative on my resume. But I do live in central Texas, therefore a Texas based company is beneficial. Envoy to AA is preferred, but republic (no flow) and then maybe United is also a possibility.

They never predicted a 3 year flow. Maybe a 3 year upgrade is what they meant.

Houpilot2001
11-10-2018, 10:00 AM
They never predicted a 3 year flow. Maybe a 3 year upgrade is what they meant.

Agreed. 2016 was a 6 year flow 2-3 year upgrade.

Jamesthunder
11-10-2018, 03:35 PM
Back in 2016, I interviewed with envoy hoping to get into their cadet program, they said I couldnít because I was working for a state flight school as a cfi. When I went, at the time they were in fact projecting 3 year flows for the current new hires. It has quite obviously since changed.

But like I said, flows may not be important to some, but itís a nice thing for me. I donít have any resume issues, no 121 failures, I have a 4 year degree, prior military, 141 asst chief/check instructor, havenít even gotten so much as a speeding ticket in the past 15 years, not really anything negative on my resume. But I do live in central Texas, therefore a Texas based company is beneficial. Envoy to AA is preferred, but republic (no flow) and then maybe United is also a possibility.

What about Skywest? I imagine Mesa is off the table. But they each have DFW bases.

jriveraaw
11-10-2018, 04:07 PM
What about Skywest? I imagine Mesa is off the table. But they each have DFW bases.

I thought about SkyWest, but a few things concerned me a little, one of those is no union. Plus Iím pretty sure, probably wrong, but they fly the crj 200 outta dfw, and Iíd rather set myself on fire than fly it.

jriveraaw
11-10-2018, 04:18 PM
They never predicted a 3 year flow. Maybe a 3 year upgrade is what they meant.

I donít know what to tell you. If I could find that little pamphlet thing they gave me, Iíd gladly send a picture of it. If that differs from other or actual projections, then sure, it probably wasnít that short of time.

Jamesthunder
11-10-2018, 05:26 PM
I thought about SkyWest, but a few things concerned me a little, one of those is no union. Plus Iím pretty sure, probably wrong, but they fly the crj 200 outta dfw, and Iíd rather set myself on fire than fly it.

For no union they get paid better than us now, and I could be wrong but they're supposed to get a minimum day credit now. So you get 4 hours even if you fly two.

jriveraaw
11-10-2018, 07:46 PM
For no union they get paid better than us now, and I could be wrong but they're supposed to get a minimum day credit now. So you get 4 hours even if you fly two.

I hear theyíre a good company but after my experience with Mesa, it would be difficult to go to an airline without a union. And last I heard they get paid actual time out instead of block time or greater like most other airlines.

UnderCenter
11-10-2018, 08:37 PM
I hear theyíre a good company but after my experience with Mesa, it would be difficult to go to an airline without a union. And last I heard they get paid actual time out instead of block time or greater like most other airlines.

Ok I need to clear some stuff up because the misinformation is bad.

1. SkyWest DFW base is CRJ 700 only, there is one 200 flight but thats staffed out of ORD. Btw, not to be a jerk, but deciding where to go based on not wanting to fly a CRJ 200 is ridiculous.

2. SkyWest gets paid block or better like every company except the ďor betterĒ part is derived from historical flight times and not advertised block. If the credit is 2:00 on the trip sheet and we block 1:30, we get 2:00. If we block 2:30 we get 2:30.

Paid2fly
11-10-2018, 09:10 PM
Ok I need to clear some stuff up because the misinformation is bad.

1. SkyWest DFW base is CRJ 700 only, there is one 200 flight but thats staffed out of ORD. Btw, not to be a jerk, but deciding where to go based on not wanting to fly a CRJ 200 is ridiculous.

2. SkyWest gets paid block or better like every company except the ďor betterĒ part is derived from historical flight times and not advertised block. If the credit is 2:00 on the trip sheet and we block 1:30, we get 2:00. If we block 2:30 we get 2:30.








OO doesn't get paid "block or better like every company", it's historical credit or better.

jriveraaw
11-11-2018, 05:47 AM
Ok I need to clear some stuff up because the misinformation is bad.

1. SkyWest DFW base is CRJ 700 only, there is one 200 flight but thats staffed out of ORD. Btw, not to be a jerk, but deciding where to go based on not wanting to fly a CRJ 200 is ridiculous.

2. SkyWest gets paid block or better like every company except the ďor betterĒ part is derived from historical flight times and not advertised block. If the credit is 2:00 on the trip sheet and we block 1:30, we get 2:00. If we block 2:30 we get 2:30.

Wait, deciding what company you want to work for based on the aircraft they fly is ridiculous?? Since when? Because Iím pretty sure that is a huge factor in probably everyoneís decision.

Squirrel27
11-11-2018, 05:51 AM
Wait, deciding what company you want to work for based on the aircraft they fly is ridiculous?? Since when? Because Iím pretty sure that is a huge factor in probably everyoneís decision.


Quality of life is much more important than what you fly. They're all the same. I'd fly a 152 for tons of money and 25 days off a month.

NoValueAviator
11-11-2018, 05:58 AM
There is a big difference between doing 5x 30 minute legs for 2.5 hours credit and 1x 4 hour leg for 4 hours credit, and between overnighting in Mexico City, Montreal or Madison every night vs. Waterloo, Iowa.

That said, if you can't get through training on the 175 you'll probably bend metal in the CRJ 200. From what I understand it is a very unforgiving aircraft.

CaptJackSparrow
11-11-2018, 06:31 AM
Wait, deciding what company you want to work for based on the aircraft they fly is ridiculous?? Since when? Because Iím pretty sure that is a huge factor in probably everyoneís decision.

Theyíre all the same thing. Recruiting pushes the big new shiny jet as the next best thing since the Wright brothers to get people in the door. 1 hour in an RJ is 1 hour in an RJ whether itís the 175 or the 200. New hires figure that out after a few months on property. The focus should be on base, pay, upgrade, and time to hold a line. It does your career progression no good to commute to reserve for a year plus on low pay on a more lucrative aircraft versus living in base as a line holder while making industry leading pay on a ďjunkĒ aircraft.

UnderCenter
11-11-2018, 06:36 AM
Wait, deciding what company you want to work for based on the aircraft they fly is ridiculous?? Since when? Because Iím pretty sure that is a huge factor in probably everyoneís decision.

Yes, it is. It has been a ridiculous idea since the dawn of time. You will find out quickly while you are commuting half way across the country and sitting in a crash pad while making crap pay to fly a shiny new jet. Iíll take good pay, a 20 min drive to the airport, and a ďcrappyĒ aircraft with 5 legs any day.

jriveraaw
11-11-2018, 09:46 AM
Quality of life is much more important than what you fly. They're all the same. I'd fly a 152 for tons of money and 25 days off a month.

Agreed, but youíre lying through your teeth. Thereís a flight school in Beaumont, TX, starting pay right now is higher than at least 2 regionals. Home every night, weekends off. QOL right there at decent pay, but yet here you are.

jriveraaw
11-11-2018, 09:50 AM
There is a big difference between doing 5x 30 minute legs for 2.5 hours credit and 1x 4 hour leg for 4 hours credit, and between overnighting in Mexico City, Montreal or Madison every night vs. Waterloo, Iowa.

That said, if you can't get through training on the 175 you'll probably bend metal in the CRJ 200. From what I understand it is a very unforgiving aircraft.

Weíre going off on a bit of a tangent here. I did all my training in a 900, passed with flying colors, easy plane to fly. The 175 is a really cool airplane itself. And I feel like everyone is picking only one of my points as a lone point rather than altogether. The choice on what airline I go to is a mix of QOL, aircraft, base, and contracts. And I seem to be attracting fan boys and ultra haters of each airline.

Captainmarv
11-11-2018, 11:46 AM
I got a interview date for the 6th of dec, I was referred by a ENVY Capt. So maybe referrals can get you in?

dera
11-11-2018, 04:34 PM
I got a interview date for the 6th of dec, I was referred by a ENVY Capt. So maybe referrals can get you in?

I think pretty much anything that "stands out from the crowd" will help. I had 6 months of 135 crew PIC time when I got the interview. I'm sure referrals help as well. Just something to separate you from the 1500hrs-doing-nothing crowd.

Captainmarv
11-11-2018, 05:18 PM
I think pretty much anything that "stands out from the crowd" will help. I had 6 months of 135 crew PIC time when I got the interview. I'm sure referrals help as well. Just something to separate you from the 1500hrs-doing-nothing crowd.
1000 hours plus of dual given seems to attract haha

TeeRainPULup
11-11-2018, 06:52 PM
I donít fly the 175 but out of Dallas definitely better QOL.

1. Better routes = better OT= more money

2. Bathroom right behind the cockpit

3. Meals on certain routes and fresh coffee

4. No complaints from PAX

5. More aircraft coming so it is growing so more lines in future

6.overall easier transition to AA since the aircraft at AA are similar to the way you fly a 175.

Iím sure there are more but there is definitely a upside to flying the shiny new aircraft.