Airline Pilot Forums

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whataclub
11-08-2018, 05:36 PM
I personally do not lather up in some sweet UVA/uvb protection and have seen few pilots who do. Saw this article today and got me thinking, is it something we as a profession should be more concerned about?

https://thepointsguy.com/guide/why-you-should-wear-sunscreen-on-a-plane/


flysooner9
11-08-2018, 06:15 PM
I try to use it every day I fly. Found a brand of good face stuff I like. Once itís on I donít even notice it the rest of the day. Not greasy at all.

M5000
11-08-2018, 07:03 PM
Dermo doc told me pilots & flight attendants have 3x the rate of skin cancer than the general population. High radiation at altitude.


awax
11-08-2018, 07:04 PM
Dermo doc told me pilots & flight attendants have 3x the rate of skin cancer than the general population. High radiation at altitude.

That's why I try to only fly at night. :rolleyes:

Trader Joe's has a good SPF 15 specifically for faces, but I use it on my arms and neck.

Arliss
11-08-2018, 07:50 PM
I'm big on this, I also use the window shades at cruise and generally try to stay out of direct sunlight. Skin cancer is no joke so I've been investing in finding the ideal sunscreen for me. Trick is finding one that you like.

Trowserchilli
11-08-2018, 07:59 PM
Iíve had multiple cancer spots cut out of my head. Attributed to flying by my docs. Wear sunscreen everyday for a few years now, put it on when brushing teeth in the morning.

I recommend Neutrogena 30spf. They have it in clear. Goes on clear, does not burn eyes, also doesnít feel greasy.
Thatís what dermatologist and plastic surgeon also recommended.

filejw
11-08-2018, 08:59 PM
I used a SPF 15 skin cream for most of my career with good results. Two years retired and both of my skin Dr checks have had just minor issues all on my left side of face and head . Funny story told to me by a coworker in early 80s . His father was ex Pam Am and had spent 22 years as Capt and all his skin cancers were on his left forearm and forehead . His friends had spent 22 years as FOís had everything on their right . Make sure you get a yearly skin check folks ..

whataclub
11-09-2018, 05:38 AM
Hm, I guess I’ll be heading out to my local CVS prior to my next trip and I’ll start doing this. I’ve always tried using the shades to keep me out of direct sunlight. but I think that may not be enough now! Thank gents

SonicFlyer
11-09-2018, 05:45 AM
"Researchers know that airline pilots and flight attendants have a higher rate of certain types of cancer. What's less concrete is exactly why.

In the past three years, at least 10 studies on the subject have been conducted. Most found an increased risk of breast and skin cancer among those who make their living in the skies.

But what has eluded scientists is the exact cause and effect.

Is it the higher altitudes that boost risk? Irregular work schedules, which can disrupt their circadian rhythms? The fact that flight crews spend more time sunbathing on beaches than the average Joe?"

https://www.webmd.com/breast-cancer/news/20031021/flight-crews-have-higher-cancer-risk#1

SonicFlyer
11-09-2018, 05:49 AM
Here is a more recent study showing a slightly higher risk among flight crews:

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-06-flight-crew-higher-cancer-population.html

UALfoLIFE
11-09-2018, 08:30 AM
I wear sunscreen, but at 30,000 uva/uvb is the least of your worrries. Most of that is blocked by the gold plating in windshield and the aircraft skin. Whatís really killing us is the cosmic radiation, and nothing is going to stop that.

rickair7777
11-09-2018, 08:40 AM
I believe that the increased skin cancer risk for crew has more to do with lifestyle, ie lots of time off and opportunity to spend time outdoors. I and a close family member have health physics backgrounds, and have done the analysis based on known risk tables.

Some specifics...

1) Cosmic radiation at altitude will cause a very slight but noticeable increase in risk of cancers associated with hard radiation exposure. We did the math based on my exposure as a domestic pilot. It would be a bit higher for long-haul due to:
a) Higher cruise altitudes
b) More time spent there (very high percentage of block time at cruise altitude).
c) Commonly cruising at higher latitudes, cosmic radiation gets funneled towards the poles by the earth's magnetic field (ex northern lights).

2) UVB is known to cause skin cancer, especially melanoma. UVB does not really penetrate modern glass windows in a jet.

3) UVA has less risk of skin cancer, but is known to cause aging of your skin. UVA can penetrate our windows, although layers of glass probably cut it down a bit. UVA also contributes to fatigue.

4) Older planes, and GA planes, with plastic windows, don't block much UV at all... you might as well be at the beach. I have a little more noticeable skin aging on my left side, despite being an FO and having spent most of my career as an FO. But I was a CA on a turboprop with poly side windows for a few years...

I use sunblock on my face when flying (daylight). I used to use it on my neck and arms but it turns shirt sleeves and collars yellow. That's mostly so I don't edge up aged more on one side than the other. Can't stop aging, but I'd prefer it be symmetrical :D

The radiation exposure calculations we did years ago were based on risk tables from the medical community. Newer studies might change that data.

badflaps
11-09-2018, 08:49 AM
I have never been a leader at anything, however, I have had 5 melanoma surgeries in the last 3 years. The docs at Northwestern Memorial (Chicago) are impressed.:eek:

Floobs
11-09-2018, 08:57 AM
Wear long sleeve shirts.

GogglesPisano
11-09-2018, 09:11 AM
I put every shade I can find up once above 10,000ft. My flight deck is like a cave. I call it the “Naked Mole Rat Technique.”

Jet Jockey 00
11-09-2018, 09:14 AM
we need astronaut helmets approved in next contract.

lowflying
11-09-2018, 02:45 PM
Thereís an ALPA newsletter covering this but I canít find it.
Hereís a study done 10 years ago: http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a471609.pdf

Boeing windshield construction:http://www.ppgaerospace.com/getmedia/ba64914b-c114-46bb-8cc4-c2ab09d440ee/B737_TD_FINAL.pdf.aspx?ext=.pdf

Notice there is no plastic which absorbs more UV..

The FDA regulates sunscreen in such a conservative way that sunscreens available in the US generally suck. I buy Japanese sunscreen that available on Amazon. Their stuff is way better than anything we can get here.

gipple
11-09-2018, 02:54 PM
I wear sunscreen, but at 30,000 uva/uvb is the least of your worrries. Most of that is blocked by the gold plating in windshield and the aircraft skin. Whatís really killing us is the cosmic radiation, and nothing is going to stop that.

Exactly. Had a basal cell ten+ years ago. The doctor said sunscreen was useless, because of all the other radiation exposure.

lowflying
11-09-2018, 03:35 PM
Hereís an article for those of you that think our windshields already have uv protections:
https://runwaygirlnetwork.com/2018/05/29/ppg-uv-protective-window-transparencies-address-crew-health/

They hope to have uv resistant windshields by 2019-2020...

okawner
11-09-2018, 04:51 PM
I can definitely attest that flying has messed my face up...that and genetics

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at6d
11-09-2018, 05:49 PM
And turn the damned radar off when you donít need it.

HuggyU2
11-09-2018, 08:14 PM
Wear long sleeve shirts.
Yup.

In March, I met the founder of Method Seven sunglasses, James Cox, at a social event and we talked for about an hour. As the creator of new brand of high-end performance aviation eyewear, he has spent a significant amount of time and money researching what the windows in various airliners protect against. He knew a LOT about airline windows.

When I told him I was on the 737, he immediately said "your front windscreens offer good protection... but you better wear long sleeves and put a high-quality sunscreen on your neck and face, because the two side windows offer no protection at all."

chrisreedrules
11-09-2018, 09:27 PM
I wear long sleeves and I just recently began applying a sunscreen on my face and neck when getting ready to start the day if Iím flying primarily during daylight hours.

Hossharris
11-10-2018, 05:28 AM
And turn the damned radar off when you donít need it.

Youíll get more Trons from the CRT screens in the cockpit than the radar 6 feet and several layers of aluminum and avionics away.

cezzna
11-10-2018, 05:43 AM
I believe that the increased skin cancer risk for crew has more to do with lifestyle, ie lots of time off and opportunity to spend time outdoors. I and a close family member have health physics backgrounds, and have done the analysis based on known risk tables.

Some specifics...

1) Cosmic radiation at altitude will cause a very slight but noticeable increase in risk of cancers associated with hard radiation exposure. We did the math based on my exposure as a domestic pilot. It would be a bit higher for long-haul due to:
a) Higher cruise altitudes
b) More time spent there (very high percentage of block time at cruise altitude).
c) Commonly cruising at higher latitudes, cosmic radiation gets funneled towards the poles by the earth's magnetic field (ex northern lights).

2) UVB is known to cause skin cancer, especially melanoma. UVB does not really penetrate modern glass windows in a jet.

3) UVA has less risk of skin cancer, but is known to cause aging of your skin. UVA can penetrate our windows, although layers of glass probably cut it down a bit. UVA also contributes to fatigue.

4) Older planes, and GA planes, with plastic windows, don't block much UV at all... you might as well be at the beach. I have a little more noticeable skin aging on my left side, despite being an FO and having spent most of my career as an FO. But I was a CA on a turboprop with poly side windows for a few years...

I use sunblock on my face when flying (daylight). I used to use it on my neck and arms but it turns shirt sleeves and collars yellow. That's mostly so I don't edge up aged more on one side than the other. Can't stop aging, but I'd prefer it be symmetrical :D

The radiation exposure calculations we did years ago were based on risk tables from the medical community. Newer studies might change that data.

I’ve read just the opposite, UVA causes the skin cancer and UVB the burns.
https://www.skincancer.org/prevention/uva-and-uvb

Another thing—-all those claims of UV protection for your sunglasses is a bunch of crap. I’d be surprised if they block anything.

And our sunscreens are crap in the US,

https://www.ewg.org/sunscreen/report/does-europe-have-better-sunscreens/

rickair7777
11-10-2018, 07:18 AM
Iíve read just the opposite, UVA causes the skin cancer and UVB the burns.
https://www.skincancer.org/prevention/uva-and-uvb

Another thingó-all those claims of UV protection for your sunglasses is a bunch of crap. Iíd be surprised if they block anything.

And our sunscreens are crap in the US,

https://www.ewg.org/sunscreen/report/does-europe-have-better-sunscreens/

The general consensus I've gathered over time is that UVB causes burns and melanoma. It is blocked by glass airplane windows, that's fact.

UVA causes aging and now there is more noise about it causing non-melanoma skin cancers (which are far less serious, melanoma is the real bogey-man).

But either way, I use sunblock.

drivinghome
11-10-2018, 08:55 AM
My dermatologist said, ď Unless your sunblock has Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Oxide listed as the active ingredients, itís a waste.Ē I use Neutrogena Sensitive Skin Sunscreen.

rightside02
11-10-2018, 09:13 AM
Was told the same . I get skin checked nearly every year and she said the same has to be a sink product for best results. I use it nearly every time I fly as long as I remember to do so.

Canít hurt. Does ít it protect me from everything ?, prob not.

Jet Jockey 00
11-10-2018, 09:35 AM
My dermatologist said, ď Unless your sunblock has Titanium Dioxide and Zinc Oxide listed as the active ingredients, itís a waste.Ē I use Neutrogena Sensitive Skin Sunscreen.

Buy some mineral sunscreen next time your in Canada they have the good stuff.

HuggyU2
11-10-2018, 10:27 PM
Buy some mineral sunscreen next time your in Canada they have the good stuff.
Mrs Scobee, my high school English teacher, is unhappy with you're post.

jcountry
11-11-2018, 11:20 AM
Iíve had multiple cancer spots cut out of my head. Attributed to flying by my docs. Wear sunscreen everyday for a few years now, put it on when brushing teeth in the morning.



Sunscreen on a toothbrush?

Pretty sure youíre not doing it right.

TransWorld
11-11-2018, 03:44 PM
Sunscreen on a toothbrush?

Pretty sure youíre not doing it right.

I heard grandpa was losing his wits. The dentist was puzzled about the sudden gum line receding, until one day grandma caught him putting Preperation H on his toothbrush.

A Squared
11-12-2018, 05:11 AM
"Researchers know that airline pilots and flight attendants have a higher rate of certain types of cancer. What's less concrete is exactly why.


We can reasonably surmise that it ain't sunlight coming thought the windows whcih is causing it in Flight attendants. I would imagine that it's relatively rare for a flight attendant to be exposed to direct sunlight in flight.

rickair7777
11-12-2018, 08:45 AM
We can reasonably surmise that it ain't sunlight coming thought the windows whcih is causing it in Flight attendants. I would imagine that it's relatively rare for a flight attendant to be exposed to direct sunlight in flight.

Lifestyle. Pool deck on layover, beach on days off.

GogglesPisano
11-12-2018, 08:48 AM
Windshields do block UV light, however the strength of UV light increases exponentially. Once you get in the high 30's, you're Mr Spock saving the Enterprise.

Use shades.

M5000
11-12-2018, 08:51 AM
What are the best shade comboís for a 737? The checklist and slider window stick on are all Iíve seen.

murkdaddy
11-12-2018, 01:12 PM
For anyone who hates long sleeve shirts, especially in the summer, I bought a pair of SPF 50 sleeves for the flight I seem to just get stuck in the sun the whole time.

https://www.amazon.com/Protection-Cooling-Sleeves-Baseball-Basketball/dp/B07CGC7C87/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1542056998&sr=8-2&keywords=spf+50+golf+sleeves

chrisreedrules
11-12-2018, 01:31 PM
For anyone who hates long sleeve shirts, especially in the summer, I bought a pair of SPF 50 sleeves for the flight I seem to just get stuck in the sun the whole time.

https://www.amazon.com/Protection-Cooling-Sleeves-Baseball-Basketball/dp/B07CGC7C87/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1542056998&sr=8-2&keywords=spf+50+golf+sleeves

Some airlines may not allow long sleeves to be work under a short-sleeve shirt...

Chakerik
11-12-2018, 01:34 PM
Windshields do block UV light, however the strength of UV light increases exponentially. Once you get in the high 30's, you're Mr Spock saving the Enterprise.

Use shades.

But.. but...spotting traffic??:rolleyes:
Ive been told to take em down because we need to always be scanning... Good thing we can see traffic in IMC...:confused:

A Squared
11-12-2018, 01:35 PM
Some airlines may not allow long sleeves to be work under a short-sleeve shirt...


I'm still having difficulty with the whole "If you don't like to wear long sleeves, here's some long sleeves you can wear instead of wearing long sleeves" concept.

lowflying
11-12-2018, 02:43 PM
Windshields do block UV light, however the strength of UV light increases exponentially. Once you get in the high 30's, you're Mr Spock saving the Enterprise.

Use shades.
UVB is up to 320nm That's why you don't get a sunburn in the cockpit.
UVA is 320-380 nm Premature aging as well as DNA damage

OOfff
11-12-2018, 04:42 PM
I'm still having difficulty with the whole "If you don't like to wear long sleeves, here's some long sleeves you can wear instead of wearing long sleeves" concept.

You can put them on in the flight deck and take them off before leaving. How is this hard to understand?

SonicFlyer
11-12-2018, 07:37 PM
For anyone who hates long sleeve shirts, especially in the summer, I bought a pair of SPF 50 sleeves for the flight I seem to just get stuck in the sun the whole time.
I do believe someone would get their ass kicked wearing something like that man...


https://regularguybrewing.files.wordpress.com/2014/02/wpid-original.jpg

AZFlyer
11-13-2018, 03:47 PM
I wear sunscreen on my face, ears, and neck. Neutrogena makes a good non-greasy sunscreen and doesn't smell like you're going to the beach. I'll also wear upf sleeves in the cockpit when there is prolonged sun exposure on my side. I've had lots of pre-cancerous moles removed and I'm only in my mid 30s, so, haters can hate. I put them on when needed and taken them off before i leave the plane. No biggie.

SonicFlyer
11-13-2018, 05:55 PM
I'll also wear upf sleeves in the cockpit when there is prolonged sun exposure on my side. I've had lots of pre-cancerous moles removed and I'm only in my mid 30s, so, haters can hate. I put them on when needed and taken them off before i leave the plane. No biggie.

Heh, in all seriousness, that's probably a smart move regardless of how dumb the sleeves look.


My best friend has severe melanoma and it almost killed him but he is close to being recovered. I rented a boat one weekend this year to go hang out and invited him and he shows up dressed like the invisible man with zero exposed skin (this is Florida, btw). It must've been hot as hell for him while at idle but once moving it wasn't too bad. Everyone passing by probably thought he was an albino or something. If there is a history of cancer I can understand taking every possible precaution.



https://bloody-disgusting.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/invisible_man.jpg

saturn
11-13-2018, 06:16 PM
Find me another business professional with a white shirt + tie that goes with short sleeves? Usually those are the stereotypical geek/nerd types with cell phone holsters and pocket protectors. But whatís the deal with this reverse stigma in aviation of wearing a long sleeve shirt being nerdy or otherwise bad looking? Makes even less sense when you wear a suit coat. Most foreign airlines Iíve noticed have long sleeves.

All my pilot shirts are short sleeves. Maybe next replacement cycle I should go long sleeve.

HuggyU2
11-14-2018, 11:26 PM
Some airlines may not allow long sleeves to be work under a short-sleeve shirt...
Seeing as this is a "United Airlines" subsection of APC, I don't think this is a factor.

A Squared
11-15-2018, 12:35 AM
Seeing as this is a "United Airlines" subsection of APC, I don't think this is a factor.


?? It doesn't appear to be the United subsection to me.

chrisreedrules
11-15-2018, 03:23 AM
Seeing as this is a "United Airlines" subsection of APC, I don't think this is a factor.

:confused:

trip
11-16-2018, 07:38 AM
Find me another business professional with a white shirt + tie that goes with short sleeves? Usually those are the stereotypical geek/nerd types with cell phone holsters and pocket protectors. But whatís the deal with this reverse stigma in aviation of wearing a long sleeve shirt being nerdy or otherwise bad looking? Makes even less sense when you wear a suit coat. Most foreign airlines Iíve noticed have long sleeves.

All my pilot shirts are short sleeves. Maybe next replacement cycle I should go long sleeve.

Bankers and Lawyers, ties/long sleeves, taking your money.
Geeks, ties/short sleeves, put men on the moon, build cool stuff.

HuggyU2
11-18-2018, 12:31 PM
?? It doesn't appear to be the United subsection to me.
Yup... you are correct.
My comprehension on where I am on the forum is below average.

Tmcelin
11-28-2018, 07:05 AM
Check out spaceweather.com . Daily forecasts for upper level radiation. They have a ďhot flightsĒ table which shows top 5 charter, commercial flights with highest dose rates. They say higher altitude flights 400, 450 have up to 70x higher dose rates than sea level depending on sunspot and gamma activity from space. Interesting to read about. Not sure what Coppertone makes for that....


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