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View Full Version : ALPA Dues reduction?!


airb320
11-11-2018, 11:36 AM
Did I read correctly that ALPA is thinking to go from 1.9% to 1.85%?
If true, WTF?!?!?
It should be 1.2% at most and NO bonuses should ever be “taxed”!
With these massive increases in salaries ALPA is raking it in and I can’t stand for a Union where, most Pilots I talk to, are conservative and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF


67Creek
11-11-2018, 02:42 PM
and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF

Source?

...

crewdawg
11-11-2018, 02:48 PM
It was sent out to us by our union a month or so ago. 1.85% on 1JAN20.


kevbo
11-12-2018, 04:37 PM
Did I read correctly that ALPA is thinking to go from 1.9% to 1.85%?
If true, WTF?!?!?
It should be 1.2% at most and NO bonuses should ever be “taxed”!
With these massive increases in salaries ALPA is raking it in and I can’t stand for a Union where, most Pilots I talk to, are conservative and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF

I don't get it either. Everyone knows all the really good flying jobs are non union. Meanwhile AA has been waiting for 18 years for permission to strike.

airb320
11-12-2018, 05:07 PM
Source?

...

Read... I’m not doing anyones homework.
It’s all readily available

AJ Crowley
11-15-2018, 10:32 AM
Did I read correctly that ALPA is thinking to go from 1.9% to 1.85%?
If true, WTF?!?!?
It should be 1.2% at most and NO bonuses should ever be “taxed”!
With these massive increases in salaries ALPA is raking it in and I can’t stand for a Union where, most Pilots I talk to, are conservative and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF

it's not ALPA's fault pilots like to vote against their own best interest.

frozenboxhauler
11-17-2018, 11:11 PM
Did I read correctly that ALPA is thinking to go from 1.9% to 1.85%?
If true, WTF?!?!?
It should be 1.2% at most and NO bonuses should ever be “taxed”!
With these massive increases in salaries ALPA is raking it in and I can’t stand for a Union where, most Pilots I talk to, are conservative and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF

Actually ALPA PAC gave 51% to Democrats and 49% to Republicans last year,...but why let facts get in the way of a good story. ;)
fbh

rickair7777
11-18-2018, 06:59 AM
Did I read correctly that ALPA is thinking to go from 1.9% to 1.85%?
If true, WTF?!?!?
It should be 1.2% at most and NO bonuses should ever be “taxed”!
With these massive increases in salaries ALPA is raking it in and I can’t stand for a Union where, most Pilots I talk to, are conservative and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they can give any of your dues to political campaigns, I think only the PAC can do that (which you don't have to participate in).

And even ALPA PAC is going to very targeted, ie not vomiting cash all over over every lefty cause and agenda in sight, but rather selectively focused on candidates who's are likely or proven to help unions, pilots, and maybe airline aviation.

BoilerUP
11-18-2018, 07:00 AM
Facts?

Where we’re going, we don’t need facts.

GogglesPisano
11-18-2018, 07:44 AM
"Well people are saying." It's the new fact source in the era of fake news.

tomgoodman
11-18-2018, 08:48 AM
"Well people are saying." It's the new fact source in the era of fake news.

“As is well known...” was a favorite phrase of the Soviet newspaper “Pravda”. Citizens joked that it meant a whopper was coming. :p

kevbo
11-20-2018, 12:39 AM
Sometimes I find my Union to be corrupt and generally disgusting. My attitude improves when I see a bunch of company guys in their 50s get replaced with fresh grads at half the pay.

Cujo665
11-24-2018, 09:49 AM
They’re courting the APA still. It’s been their dream for years now to make the AA pilots ALPA. Reducing the dues to attract them more was part of that plan as far back as 2013. Looks like they’re moving forward on a sales pitch to APA members.....

Flytolive
11-24-2018, 10:40 AM
Sometimes I find my Union to be corrupt and generally disgusting. My attitude improves when I see a bunch of company guys in their 50s get replaced with fresh grads at half the pay.Often I find that such nonsense comes from someone who doesn’t have a clue and hates the fact that their chosen profession is dependent on collective bargaining. Fortunately, such selfishness rarely lends itself to any action.

deus ex machina
11-25-2018, 06:31 AM
They’re courting the APA still. It’s been their dream for years now to make the AA pilots ALPA. Reducing the dues to attract them more was part of that plan as far back as 2013. Looks like they’re moving forward on a sales pitch to APA members.....

APA pilots are assessed a higher dues rate too often to justify their lower dues rate. In addition there is something called value and the APA ain't it.

It's a nightmare of mine... when the APA does something it cheapens the profession... whether it's crappy contracts or freeloading off of ALPA's efforts.. (FAA ReAuth)

They [APA] don't even have a code of ethics, which a profession requires.

Cujo665
11-25-2018, 08:02 AM
APA pilots are assessed a higher dues rate too often to justify their lower dues rate. In addition there is something called value and the APA ain't it.

It's a nightmare of mine... when the APA does something it cheapens the profession... whether it's crappy contracts or freeloading off of ALPA's efforts.. (FAA ReAuth)

They [APA] don't even have a code of ethics, which a profession requires.

Regardless, it’s been ALPA nationals wet dream for the past several years to bring the AA pilots into ALPA. Lowering dues rates closer to APA rates was always part of every plan to get it done.

kevbo
11-25-2018, 01:23 PM
Often I find that such nonsense comes from someone who doesn’t have a clue and hates the fact that their chosen profession is dependent on collective bargaining. Fortunately, such selfishness rarely lends itself to any action.

Definitely hate it. The market is what it is so a nineteenth century labor union is the best situation most can hope for. That is unless your daddy owns the company. The best action is to start your own. That's what I'm doing.

airb320
11-25-2018, 05:12 PM
Actually ALPA PAC gave 51% to Democrats and 49% to Republicans last year,...but why let facts get in the way of a good story. ;)
fbh

51 is more than 49... right? Unless in your “cloudy” World math doesn’t make sense, which wouldn’t surprise me

HuggyU2
11-25-2018, 05:50 PM
Did I read correctly that ALPA is thinking to go from 1.9% to 1.85%?


Read... I'm not doing anyone's homework.

rickair7777
11-26-2018, 06:38 AM
51 is more than 49... right? Unless in your “cloudy” World math doesn’t make sense, which wouldn’t surprise me

Partisan lines are not black and white. I suspect that the PAC's efforts result in a net positive gain for me over the long term, all things considered. I doubt they are supporting extremists or demagogues of any stripe.

Ducttape
12-05-2018, 02:29 PM
51 is more than 49... right? Unless in your “cloudy” World math doesn’t make sense, which wouldn’t surprise me

Your dues don’t go to the PAC, so your “point” is specious.

You said...

With these massive increases in salaries ALPA is raking it in and I can’t stand for a Union where, most Pilots I talk to, are conservative and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF

The irony is incredible. Many of the high paid ALPA employees are union represented, as their pay is negotiated as part of a CBA. Would you rather the people representing our Union to not be a part of a union? You don’t want their union to be able to negotiate a fair wage for their work?

You see the irony of that, being that we are no different when asking for the same with our management counterparts?

As for your random 1.2% max union rate and bonuses not subject to dues, since you pulled that from nowhere, it’s not worth discussing.

Remember it was your republican representation that axed the union dues tax write off.

Cujo665
12-24-2018, 02:00 PM
Your dues don’t go to the PAC, so your “point” is specious.

You said...

With these massive increases in salaries ALPA is raking it in and I can’t stand for a Union where, most Pilots I talk to, are conservative and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF

The irony is incredible. Many of the high paid ALPA employees are union represented, as their pay is negotiated as part of a CBA. Would you rather the people representing our Union to not be a part of a union? You don’t want their union to be able to negotiate a fair wage for their work?

You see the irony of that, being that we are no different when asking for the same with our management counterparts?

As for your random 1.2% max union rate and bonuses not subject to dues, since you pulled that from nowhere, it’s not worth discussing.

Remember it was your republican representation that axed the union dues tax write off.

$80k to $100k for secretarial Jobs? Christ, remove a few regional FO’s to full time union duty and you’d save money and have pilots more knowledgeable about union operations.

baseball
01-16-2019, 05:37 AM
Actually ALPA PAC gave 51% to Democrats and 49% to Republicans last year,...but why let facts get in the way of a good story. ;)
fbh

That's really my problem with the PAC. Rather than support democrats or republicans, lets support professional pilot legislation.

I don't like union money, be it dues, or voluntary contributions going to individuals or their campaigns. don't care what party it is.

Route66
01-23-2019, 06:25 AM
Your dues don’t go to the PAC, so your “point” is specious.

You said...

With these massive increases in salaries ALPA is raking it in and I can’t stand for a Union where, most Pilots I talk to, are conservative and this Union is giving freely to Democrats... again WTF

The irony is incredible. Many of the high paid ALPA employees are union represented, as their pay is negotiated as part of a CBA. Would you rather the people representing our Union to not be a part of a union? You don’t want their union to be able to negotiate a fair wage for their work?

You see the irony of that, being that we are no different when asking for the same with our management counterparts?

As for your random 1.2% max union rate and bonuses not subject to dues, since you pulled that from nowhere, it’s not worth discussing.

Remember it was your republican representation that axed the union dues tax write off.

Without a national seniority list none of this matters.

stabapch
01-30-2019, 06:41 PM
Actually ALPA PAC gave 51% to Democrats and 49% to Republicans last year,...but why let facts get in the way of a good story. ;)
fbh

Ha, this couldn’t be further from the truth! Go research any .gov website. Everything is there under the freedom of information act. Actually I’ll make it real easy for ya, just research who funds Nancy Pelosi... ALPA, APA, IBT, IBEW, etc...

C’mon boys, this ain’t 1950 anymore. Unions are nothing more than corrupt garbage. I’ll just pretend I didn’t hear that the guys negotiating our work contracts directly affecting our lives are being “paid off” by the airlines themselves.

If money is being taken out of my paycheck for non gov reasons, I have a right to know exactly where every penny is going and a ******ing choice to say if I want it to go there or not. The ALPA is just a corporation of workers, for profit, no different than any other corporation.

Flytolive
01-30-2019, 07:05 PM
Actually ALPA PAC gave 51% to Democrats and 49% to Republicans last year,...but why let facts get in the way of a good story. ;)Ha, this couldn’t be further from the truth!You ought to take your own advice. 48% of ALPA-PAC's 2016 and 45% of ALPA-PAC's 2018 election cycle election contributions were made to Republicans and none of those PAC funds come out of dues.

So, it turns out your 'beliefs' "couldn't be further from the truth!"

stabapch
01-31-2019, 07:21 AM
You ought to take your own advice. 48% of ALPA-PAC's 2016 and 45% of ALPA-PAC's 2018 election cycle election contributions were made to Republicans and none of those PAC funds come out of dues.

So, it turns out your 'beliefs' "couldn't be further from the truth!"

LOL my beliefs are outside of union propaganda. ALPA, APA, IBT are directly sponsoring democratic congressional leaders. You can look any congressman up and find out who sponsors them and how much money is given and that’s only the published info... I’m not talking about election campaigns. The point is that your money coming from your paycheck in the form of “union dues” goes towards political funding without your input.

“None of those PAC funds come out of dues”

Sorry to inform you, but this has been debunked years ago through multiple media sources.

Unions in the 21st century do not exist solely for their member’s interests.

Flytolive
01-31-2019, 07:54 AM
LOL my beliefs are outside of union propaganda.Actually, your 'beliefs' are outside of reality. Good luck with that and sorry to bother you with the facts that as you say can "research (on) any .gov website."

Gotta love low-information 'believers'. Bless your little heart.

GogglesPisano
01-31-2019, 08:16 AM
I'm happy with my PAC money spent in the most effective way possible. It's all about ROI, not fairness or a 50-50 split.

stabapch
01-31-2019, 08:19 AM
Actually, your 'beliefs' are outside of reality. Good luck with that and sorry to bother you with the facts that as you say can "research (on) any .gov website."

Gotta love low-information 'believers'. Bless your little heart.

Your the same kind of guy that believes his government exists for the people. HA let’s talk about reality now! I would certainly hope you don’t get yourself into a big situation banking on that ‘union representation’ to bail ya out! I feel for your mislead kind.

But hey this is why nothing will ever change in this country or industry. There’s just too many ignorant flying sheep up there to shoot down and the union heads love them sheep!

GogglesPisano
01-31-2019, 08:33 AM
Your the same kind of guy that believes his government exists for the people. HA let’s talk about reality now! I would certainly hope you don’t get yourself into a big situation banking on that ‘union representation’ to bail ya out! I feel for your mislead kind.

But hey this is why nothing will ever change in this country or industry. There’s just too many ignorant flying sheep up there to shoot down and the union heads love them sheep!

If you despise collective bargaining so much, why not find a non-union or corporate job? You're individualism and non-"sheepishness" will surely be rewarded with better pay and working conditions.

stabapch
01-31-2019, 08:59 AM
If you despise collective bargaining so much, why not find a non-union or corporate job? You're individualism and non-"sheepishness" will surely be rewarded with better pay and working conditions.

I don’t despise collective bargaining, I love my contract I work under. There’s no way around it in the airline industry. I can’t demonstrate that I’m a better worker than you with the goal of more compensation by flying airplanes, hence the seniority system.

I’ve worked for a non-union electrical company and my personal effort earned myself far better compensation than what the IBEW was advertising. So yes my individualism did pay off. But again it doesn’t work this way as a pilot.

What do I have a against unions? They’re fake nowadays. They worked for the benefit of their members way in the past, but now like everywhere else that has a constant feed of money flowing in, corruption takes over. I just happen to be one that cares where my money taken out of my pay ends up.

GogglesPisano
01-31-2019, 09:10 AM
What do I have a against unions? They’re fake nowadays. They worked for the benefit of their members way in the past, but now like everywhere else that has a constant feed of money flowing in, corruption takes over. I just happen to be one that cares where my money taken out of my pay ends up.

If unions are "fake," why do they deliver results for their membership?

Why do pilot groups consistently vote them in? (If you have an example of a pilot group voting out a union without a replacement I'd be very curious to hear about it.)

Why are pay and working conditions better at union airlines? Why do legacy/FDX/UPS/SWA pilots make more than corporate pilots?

I'd also be curious to hear about this "corruption" in pilot unions.

Flytolive
01-31-2019, 10:05 AM
Your the same kind of guy that believes his government exists for the people. But hey this is why nothing will ever change in this country or industry.Whoa. Judging from how easily distracted you are from the actual subject I’d bet a that your issues are much more diffuse. You might want to turn off Fox & Rush, delete Drudge and get a hobby.

Again, best of luck with your issues.

stabapch
01-31-2019, 11:25 AM
If unions are "fake," why do they deliver results for their membership?

Why do pilot groups consistently vote them in? (If you have an example of a pilot group voting out a union without a replacement I'd be very curious to hear about it.)

Why are pay and working conditions better at union airlines? Why do legacy/FDX/UPS/SWA pilots make more than corporate pilots?

I'd also be curious to hear about this "corruption" in pilot unions.

Please enlighten me on these “results” they deliver for my membership...

Corruption? Just like in the previous posts, dues going towards congressman that the union heads favor. I’m not sure about you, but I never received my flyer in the mail where I get to elect which and if any of my dues go towards political parties.

Do you trust the ‘elected’ few that negotiate on your behalf? Take a look at the teamsters, they’ve been caught being bought down by the airlines to settle a deal.

Face it, you got sold into a corporation to fight a corporation.......

GogglesPisano
01-31-2019, 11:41 AM
Please enlighten me on these “results” they deliver for my membership...

I’ve already listed the results. Do you think pay and working conditions at union legacy airlines are better than non-union corporate flight departments because of altruistic management?

Corruption? Just like in the previous posts, dues going towards congressman that the union heads favor. I’m not sure about you, but I never received my flyer in the mail where I get to elect which and if any of my dues go towards political parties.

Do you trust the ‘elected’ few that negotiate on your behalf? Take a look at the teamsters, they’ve been caught being bought down by the airlines to settle a deal.

Face it, you got sold into a corporation to fight a corporation.......

Union dues cannot be used for political campaigns.

Looking at my paycheck and work rules, I’m quite happy with the way things are working.

Flytolive
01-31-2019, 12:22 PM
dues going towards congressman that the union heads favor.Wrong again. Do you ever tire of being wrong? Maybe you don't like democratic institutions. ALPA-PAC contributions are voluntary and dues are not used.


Who decides who the PAC supports?

ALPA-PAC is governed by a Steering Committee, the members of which are all either elected by ALPA’s Board of Directors (Chairman and Treasurer) or are appointed for a two-year term by ALPA’s President (the National members). The Steering Committee approves all expenses from the PAC.

The ALPA-PAC Steering Committee consists of nine members: the President of ALPA, who serves as Chairman of the Committee, the First Vice President of ALPA, who serves as Treasurer of the Committee, and seven National members (ALPA members in good standing) appointed by the Committee Chairman and approved by the ALPA Executive Council.

MECs can earn seats on the Steering committee by demonstrating a commitment to the PAC. Any MEC whose members account for 15% or more of total PAC receipts over a 2-year period is entitled to a seat. MECs accounting for more than 30% of total receipts are entitled to 2 seats. 2 seats are reserved for smaller carriers to make sure the Steering committee is representative of ALPA’s membership.


And talk about money well spent. The FAA Reauthorization was a home run for pilots. We got everything we wanted except flags of convenience restrictions.

stabapch
01-31-2019, 01:10 PM
Wrong again. Do you ever tire of being wrong? Maybe you don't like democratic institutions. ALPA-PAC contributions are voluntary and dues are not used.


Who decides who the PAC supports?

ALPA-PAC is governed by a Steering Committee, the members of which are all either elected by ALPA’s Board of Directors (Chairman and Treasurer) or are appointed for a two-year term by ALPA’s President (the National members). The Steering Committee approves all expenses from the PAC.

The ALPA-PAC Steering Committee consists of nine members: the President of ALPA, who serves as Chairman of the Committee, the First Vice President of ALPA, who serves as Treasurer of the Committee, and seven National members (ALPA members in good standing) appointed by the Committee Chairman and approved by the ALPA Executive Council.

MECs can earn seats on the Steering committee by demonstrating a commitment to the PAC. Any MEC whose members account for 15% or more of total PAC receipts over a 2-year period is entitled to a seat. MECs accounting for more than 30% of total receipts are entitled to 2 seats. 2 seats are reserved for smaller carriers to make sure the Steering committee is representative of ALPA’s membership.


And talk about money well spent. The FAA Reauthorization was a home run for pilots. We got everything we wanted except flags of convenience restrictions.

LMAO is that a statement directly off the ALPA website? Man you are drowning in the propaganda, you need to open your eyes! Critical thinking must have been a struggle in grade school for ya wasn’t it? That’s okay though stay in that bubble of yours, believe everything your told and don’t question anything ever. Life is designed that way and you’re playing along perfectly.

I’ll even help ya out a little. Why don’t you research what your ‘Beck rights’ are. Or maybe why this exists as a law in the first place. It’s just a little push to get ya out of that bubble if you choose.

Flytolive
01-31-2019, 01:15 PM
Why don’t you research what your ‘Beck rights’ are.You might want to look up the difference between the NLRB and the NMB and which one applies to airline labor. Sorry, wrong yet again.

stabapch
01-31-2019, 01:41 PM
You might want to look up the difference between the NLRB and the NMB and which one applies to airline labor. Sorry, wrong yet again.

This is irrelevant. The Beck case applies to both. As a matter of fact, ALPA was already challenged on this and the courts held in favor against the union.

(Your doing pretty well on the research, but now let’s get a little further than the first result on your google search)

Flytolive
01-31-2019, 02:42 PM
This is irrelevant. The Beck case applies to both.Yes, but it is not irrelevant if you read Brennan's majority decision. RLA = Railway Labor Act that covers airlines. ALPA doesn't use dues for political purposes. Sorry, better luck next time.

Turning to the constitutional question, Brennan wrestled with the fact that "...in Railway Employees v. Hanson, 351 U.S. 225 (1956), [the Court held] that because the RLA pre-empts all state laws banning union-security agreements, the negotiation and enforcement of such provisions in railroad industry contracts involves 'governmental action' and is therefore subject to constitutional limitations." The question before the Court in Beck, then, was whether such governmental action extended to the acts of unions in the private sector where there was no such federal pre-emption. CWA argued that because Section 14(b) of the NLRA permits each state make its own choice in this regard, there could be no federal pre-emption and thus no governmental action. Brennan concluded for the majority that the Supreme Court need not decide the issue: The Court's doctrine was to rule narrowly on grounds of statutory construction where possible, and that issue had already been decided on statutory grounds in the workers' favor.

stabapch
01-31-2019, 03:19 PM
Yes, but it is not irrelevant if you read Brennan's majority decision. RLA = Railway Labor Act that covers airlines. ALPA doesn't use dues for political purposes. Sorry, better luck next time.

Turning to the constitutional question, Brennan wrestled with the fact that "...in Railway Employees v. Hanson, 351 U.S. 225 (1956), [the Court held] that because the RLA pre-empts all state laws banning union-security agreements, the negotiation and enforcement of such provisions in railroad industry contracts involves 'governmental action' and is therefore subject to constitutional limitations." The question before the Court in Beck, then, was whether such governmental action extended to the acts of unions in the private sector where there was no such federal pre-emption. CWA argued that because Section 14(b) of the NLRA permits each state make its own choice in this regard, there could be no federal pre-emption and thus no governmental action. Brennan concluded for the majority that the Supreme Court need not decide the issue: The Court's doctrine was to rule narrowly on grounds of statutory construction where possible, and that issue had already been decided on statutory grounds in the workers' favor.

Yet again, irrelevant. Your right to Beck requests are covered by Federal law. Please enlighten me on why ALPA has published advisement on how to handle Beck requests and how to request them? Seems kind of silly if it doesn’t apply to them don’t ya think...

But again back to the beginning the proof is all on government websites for everyone that puts effort into this subject. ALPA was specifically investigated for union dues paid to campaign contributions. But it’s kind of hard for someone to take legal action when the union is paying their salary (“lobbying”).

WhistlePig
01-31-2019, 03:27 PM
When did Alex Jones get an ATP?

Flytolive
01-31-2019, 03:33 PM
Your (sic) right to Beck requests are covered by Federal law.If you are going to cite a legal decision then you should actually understand what it means. As you even admitted, "the courts held... against the union." Dues of RLA employees cannot be used for political purposes.

ALPA-PAC funds are voluntary and have used quite effectively to lobby for pilots' interests as evidenced by the FAA Reauthorization bill. You're welcome.

stabapch
01-31-2019, 03:55 PM
If you are going to cite a legal decision then you should actually understand what it means. As you even admitted, "the courts held... against the union." Dues of RLA employees cannot be used for political purposes.

ALPA-PAC funds are voluntary and have used quite effectively to lobby for pilots' interests as evidenced by the FAA Reauthorization bill. You're welcome.

No kidding! Dues of ANY union cannot legally be used for political purposes. You obviously missed the entire point of the conversation. I’m surprised someone would allow you to pilot an aircraft. But actually I’m not, ALPA has been known to defend and keep unqualified pilots at the controls.

Everyone abides by the laws right? Especially corporations (21st century unions)... FWIW even unionfacts publishes ALPA dues going towards political means no matter how small the percentage.

The propaganda is THICK, I’m not sure I’m gonna be able to pull ya out of this.

Flytolive
01-31-2019, 04:19 PM
I’m surprised someone would allow you to pilot an aircraft.Now, now fighto. Easy on the projection. I am sure you are God's undiscovered gift to aviation who will eventually graduate from Bryan's Bazaar. Best of luck.