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View Full Version : E-190 Miracle in Portugal


UAL T38 Phlyer
11-13-2018, 05:20 AM
Thought this was bogus reporting, but friends in Portugal confirmed it.
Post-maintenance check flight (C-check).

Highlights:

Jet would roll left uncommanded.

Probably did at least three barrel rolls.

May have been 90 nose down at one point.

Terrible weather; appears gyros were tumbled.

F-16 intercepted and either led them or talked them through the weather.

Could only use rudder and differential throttle for roll.

Landed safely; jet not likely to fly again due to over-g.

Awesome job in an impossible situation!

Air Astana flight #KC1388 reported severe flight control issues, declared ?Mayday? ?. ? News In Flight (http://newsinflight.com/2018/11/12/air-astana-flight-kc1388-reported-severe-flight-control-issues-declared-mayday/)


trip
11-13-2018, 06:02 AM
Yes crazy, apparently a ferry flight out of MX with four technicians on board as well, the WX was IMC with them reporting being in a thunderstorm at one time. Two on board required medical.

The Embraer has conventional control cables to the ailerons, the tail is FBW.

Some chatter about the ailerons being reversed in direct mode?

pangolin
11-15-2018, 09:51 AM
More Details:

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/e190-upset-inquiry-details-pilots-battle-to-regain-453628/

You can find a youtube of the ATC recordings. Harrowing.


MrFriendly7
11-15-2018, 10:05 AM
wow this is insane! poor crew.

TiredSoul
11-15-2018, 05:44 PM
http://avherald.com/h?article=4c04438e&opt=0

http://avherald.com/img/astana_e190_p4-kcj_alverca_181111_1.jpg

http://avherald.com/img/astana_e190_p4-kcj_alverca_181111_2.jpg

Roll spoilers and ailerons.

rickair7777
11-15-2018, 06:53 PM
Dang. On the brighter side, there will be job openings for an AMT or two with EU right to work.

JohnBurke
11-15-2018, 09:06 PM
Note to self: don't fly Air Astana.

dera
11-15-2018, 09:47 PM
Hmm, how did that pre-takeoff control check go...

trip
11-16-2018, 04:57 AM
Dang. On the brighter side, there will be job openings for an AMT or two with EU right to work.

It's incredible that in this day and age we can still find ways to hook controls up backwards, in a new airplane! They're probably one of few if anyone that experienced it during IMC and lived to tell about it. The FBW spoilers were working (and displaying) correctly, probably what saved them.

JamesNoBrakes
11-16-2018, 06:26 AM
Not a miracle, it's the work of the crew that didn't give up.

rickair7777
11-16-2018, 08:24 AM
Hmm, how did that pre-takeoff control check go...

Might have gone just fine, they were looking for full deflection but probably taking for granted that it was the right direction. I can't swear I would have caught that in a modern jet airliner (in a cessna yes, I do look for an up aileron where my thumb is pointing).

CLazarus
11-16-2018, 10:28 AM
W-O-W. Can you imagine if that crew had been wired for heartrate? Would have looked like an 11 on the Richter Scale. Amazing job.

Makes the Lion Air accident an even bigger bummer, a difficult situation for the crew no doubt. But compared to this incident it was eminently recoverable...

FlyJSH
11-16-2018, 02:38 PM
http://avherald.com/img/astana_e190_p4-kcj_alverca_181111_2.jpg

That image does not a happy day make.

JamesNoBrakes
11-16-2018, 07:44 PM
Might have gone just fine, they were looking for full deflection but probably taking for granted that it was the right direction. I can't swear I would have caught that in a modern jet airliner (in a cessna yes, I do look for an up aileron where my thumb is pointing).

The thing is, that's one of the primary reasons that check is done, besides blockages, binding and any other feel issue. I've investigated a fatal reverse-controls accident and it was pretty horrible. I'm not arguing whether it's been watered down to the point of not capturing the original intent, but it's interesting to see just how real it is when it happens, and it does happen. The pre-takeoff check was supposed to be the thing that catches it.

rickair7777
11-16-2018, 07:54 PM
The thing is, that's one of the primary reasons that check is done, besides blockages, binding and any other feel issue. I've investigated a fatal reverse-controls accident and it was pretty horrible. I'm not arguing whether it's been watered down to the point of not capturing the original intent, but it's interesting to see just how real it is when it happens, and it does happen. The pre-takeoff check was supposed to be the thing that catches it.

I get that, it's just that complacency is probably present for that in glass jets. Reading this I realized that I look for full deflection (have seen it not quite there), but am not really consciously checking the direction on the jet. Apparently something I should improve.

Kinda of like that LEX crash... how many of us said afterwards, yeah I could have done that?

dera
11-16-2018, 08:17 PM
I get that, it's just that complacency is probably present for that in glass jets. Reading this I realized that I look for full deflection (have seen it not quite there), but am not really consciously checking the direction on the jet. Apparently something I should improve.

Kinda of like that LEX crash... how many of us said afterwards, yeah I could have done that?

I'd expect Embraer will add a "hey, something's not right here!" warning if all surfaces are not moving to their expected directions during that check.

BMEP100
11-18-2018, 04:15 AM
It can happen anywhere.

Not so many years ago, 757 first flight of the day, ailerons did not deflect during control check at the gate (yeah we used to do it there). Maint. had left them locked out the night before.

Yoke felt normal, just no deflection noted on eicas.

UAL T38 Phlyer
11-18-2018, 04:53 AM
About six months ago, doing the flight control check (767), Capt says “you try the ailerons.”

He thought they didn’t have the same force-gradient to the right as the left; thought the right aileron was lagging on EICAS, too.

I tried it...several times. Felt the same to me each way, and yeah, I held it at the stops. EICAS looked indistinguishable to me. Asked the Bunkie...he thought they looked equal on the display, too.

We flew and it was fine...it was just the Capt’s perception.

But I was very glad that he displayed concern, and didn’t just brush it under the table.

1wife2airlines
11-20-2018, 12:02 PM
About six months ago, doing the flight control check (767), Capt says “you try the ailerons.”

He thought they didn’t have the same force-gradient to the right as the left; thought the right aileron was lagging on EICAS, too.

I tried it...several times. Felt the same to me each way, and yeah, I held it at the stops. EICAS looked indistinguishable to me. Asked the Bunkie...he thought they looked equal on the display, too.

We flew and it was fine...it was just the Capt’s perception.

But I was very glad that he displayed concern, and didn’t just brush it under the table.

It was just the Captain's shoulder arthritis. :)



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