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View Full Version : Part 121 or 135 ?


Dragon Jet
11-13-2018, 01:54 PM
Dear fellow pilots

Which on is better choice :

1) 135 wheels up pax 8 on 6 Of king air 350

2) 121 Southern Air freight 18 on 12 Of B - 737

Thank you all in advance


hubbs
11-13-2018, 01:58 PM
Dear fellow pilots

Which on is better choice :

1) 135 wheels up pax 8 on 6 Of king air 350

2) 121 Southern Air freight 18 on 12 Of B - 737

Thank you all in advance

Define better. What are you career goals?

ZippyNH
11-13-2018, 01:59 PM
Dear fellow pilots

Which on is better choice :

1) 135 wheels up pax 8 on 6 Of king air 350

2) 121 Southern Air freight 18 on 12 Of B - 737

Thank you all in advance

What are your goals?
$$$
QOL
Advancement to a future company, or long-term job?
Way to many variables time let others make the choice.
Some like daytime turboprop flying, with more home time...
Others yern to fly jets, even if it mostly night flying.


Birdsmash
11-13-2018, 02:01 PM
It really depends on your current experience. If you have only flown light piston powered aircraft I’d say take the KingAir job to gain experience. If you’ve been flying turboprops or small jets I’d say take the 737 job. Although wide-open hiring provides some pilots a chance to leapfrog over what used to be a normal career progression, skill development doesn’t always follow shortcuts.

CardboardCutout
11-13-2018, 02:21 PM
I haven't flown for either, so take it with the appropriate amount of salt, but I've known people who have flown for both. AFAICT, the QOL at Wheels Up will be significantly better. You will upgrade more quickly, and I think the money might be slightly better as well (for the first few years).

OTOH, Southern will be vastly better as an experience and or resume builder if your goal is the airlines. Also, if you wind up sticking around, Southern will (probably, someday) be a better "career" job as you get higher in seniority.

Reactivity
11-13-2018, 10:36 PM
My advice to anyone who doesn't have a gold-plated job offer in front of them is go 121. You can go anywhere with 121 time. The airlines generally don't think much of 135, even with a couple thousand hours of jet PIC time. (Ask me how I know.) It's easy to cross the fence from 121 to 91 or 135, not so easy to cross the other direction.

123494
11-14-2018, 03:12 AM
Why not go to a regional to build 121 time? You’ll make more money, get more hours, and likely have a faster upgrade than you can get elsewhere. If a cargo carrier is your career destination, I know a handful of CA’s at my regional that are now at UPS, FedEx, and Kalitta

RyeMex
11-14-2018, 03:41 AM
With regards to Southern Air,

Per our Flight Operations Manual, any potential captain must have:

(1) 2,500 hours of total time on a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

and

1,000 hours of PIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

OR

(2) 1,500 hour of SIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight and 500 hours as SIC with the company.

If Southern is your first part 121 job, there is absolutely no way that you will upgrade to PIC in 2 years. My understanding is that they average about 300 hours per year, which would be about a 5 year upgrade.

Also, remember that as an FO at Southern on the 737, you will see no change in pay until year 4.

Expect to make minimum pay. I have only credited more than minimum pay at Atlas (same CBA as Southern now, essentially) 2 months so far this year.

That would mean that you should expect to make $80x61x12 or $58,560 for your first three years.

captjns
11-14-2018, 03:49 AM
Dear fellow pilots

Which on is better choice :

1) 135 wheels up pax 8 on 6 Of king air 350

2) 121 Southern Air freight 18 on 12 Of B - 737

Thank you all in advance

Take a look at Everts Air Cargo.

If you’re low time, you can embark on your career with their 135 operation in their EMB120 program based in KLRD. Their 135 DO and CP are great guys, and line pilots too.

After you build time, you can matriculate over to Everts 121 operation, which operates a fleet of MD-80, also based in KLRD. They have a great DO and CP too.

The owner of the airline, Rob, is a great guy too, who also flies the line in their DC-6 and C-46 fleet.

During the summers, you’ll have the opportunity to fly in Alaska too. An adventure unto itself.

No Land 3
11-14-2018, 05:00 AM
Do what your heart tells you. The two options you present have polar opposite schedules, way of life. With 121, you get a PIC type on the 737, not a useless SIC type. Wheels up, I think it's mostly day time flying? What ever works for you. My 135 experience left me wishing I went straight to a 121 regional instead. All water under the bridge now.

B727DRVR
11-17-2018, 09:33 AM
Hey Dragon,

My answer would be Gama/Wheels Up, for the pay, excellent health insurance benefits, home basing, and non-jeopardy positive space travel to and from home on your 8 duty days. Unless you live in CVG, that is.... I believe that if you are trying to commute to CVG, that it must be on your days off.. adding to your 18 days at Southern Air.

See my more detailed answer on your other thread in the Part 135 Forums.:cool:

thesandbox
11-17-2018, 08:00 PM
Is Southern a 121 outfit??? Didn't they just lower their minimums AGAIN to the lowest possible a restricted ATP or even a ATP/CTP course for instructors or something???? Must be some reason no one is going there.

Reactivity
11-18-2018, 08:43 AM
Is Southern a 121 outfit??? Didn't they just lower their minimums AGAIN to the lowest possible a restricted ATP or even a ATP/CTP course for instructors or something???? Must be some reason no one is going there.

Yes, Southern is 121. Yes, there's a reason they're scrounging for pilots.

All the same, if you're just going to treat it as a stepping stone to something else and as long as there isn't some sort of training agreement tying you to the company when better options might be calling, a 737 type with 121 time is nothing to sneeze at when the next economic downturn and hiring slowdown is on the horizon.

B727DRVR
11-18-2018, 12:42 PM
Yes, Southern is 121. Yes, there's a reason they're scrounging for pilots.

All the same, if you're just going to treat it as a stepping stone to something else and as long as there isn't some sort of training agreement tying you to the company when better options might be calling, a 737 type with 121 time is nothing to sneeze at when the next economic downturn and hiring slowdown is on the horizon.

Agreed,

But when the economy collapses, the market will be flooded with B737 typed pilots seeking employment ANYWHERE. I learned this painful lesson when my Part 121 dream world fell apart in 2008, and fractionals and 135 became lifeboats for thousands of us furloughed 121 pilots, both Legacy and Legacy Cargo. My fractional airline had furloughed UPS, UAL, AA, etc., and believe me, there were no 121's hiring during those days..

2008 really changed me.. When I was back home, I saw Main Street falling apart... Meanwhile, at work, I flew the banker/hedge fund class into Aspen, Martha's Vineyard, the Hamptons, etc., and they were totally oblivious to the carnage that was happening everywhere else. And this taught me an interesting lesson: Unless there is a zombie apocalypse, the wealthy are not going to be taking their shoes off for security nor will they be rushing to gt in the A line vs. the C line on SWA. The wealthy will always find a way to stay relatively wealthy, or even wealthier in an economic downturn. And they will find a way to avoid the airlines.

For job security, I will bet on the Wheels Up King Air/Excel/X job transporting America's 1% over any 121 job, with the DISCLAIMER that I do not work there.

Good luck with your decision: It's great to have options these days!:cool: