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View Full Version : Hybrid days.


seafeye
11-16-2018, 09:08 AM
Can I get a little schooling on getting a Hybrid schedule?

Do I get to pick the days?
Is it long call? Short call?
What time will I be on call?
Can I be given a 6 day trip?
What is the credit if any for a hybrid day?


OVBIII
11-16-2018, 12:26 PM
Can I get a little schooling on getting a Hybrid schedule?

Do I get to pick the days?
You get to pick them. email the base planner with your desired days. What I did was put a hybrid day on a day before an early sign in or put on a day after a late arrival (after 2200 release if able). If you want a string of hybrid days try to put them on days that have low open time probability (weekdays etc) The reason for before an early sign in or after a late arrival is it makes you somewhat illegal for quite a few trips that may get awarded based on crew rest requirements


Is it long call? Short call?
Not really either, you are assigned during DOTC for the next days flying like a LC but you are called before a LC/SC gets used

What time will I be on call?
you are assigned before reserves for your hybrid day
Can I be given a 6 day trip?
I suppose if you pick 6-days all lumped together.
What is the credit if any for a hybrid day?
I will get the semantics wrong but bear with me. You take your DACV for the trips you were assigned and that is what your hybrid days are worth.



you have until 0800 the DAY PRIOR to your hybrid day to call and cancel (or "turn in") a hybrid day.

Feel free to PM me your number and we can chat via phone. Hybrid days can really work in your favor if done right.

(any one feel free to correct or amplify as necessary)

viper548
11-16-2018, 12:34 PM
My two highest credit months were both months with hybrid days. I placed the hybrid days on weekdays where I was less likely to be used then picked up flying on off days to FAR max.


Boogerface
11-16-2018, 04:26 PM
This month I got 7 hybrid days and declined them all. I was supposed to have training (it got cancelled), and they gave me 1 trip. I picked up 2 trips from other pilots that had them posted for drop - one 3 day and one 4 day. My PPROJ is at 83 hours. I couldn't be happier with the results - I got the trips I wanted, out of the co-terminal airport I wanted, on the days I wanted to work. My thought process is - they may not give you the hybrid days on the days you want (you can still drop them if you don't like the days), then you might have to fly a crappy trip, out of a co-terminal airport you don't want to go to, or with someone you may not want to fly with. Being able to pick up whatever you want, whenever you want has a nice sense of freedom and flexibility to it.

QuagmireGiggity
11-16-2018, 04:37 PM
There's a chart on bid sheet that says how much a day is worth for pay.
Here's the page for hybrid info.
https://aapilots.aa.com/private/pbs/PBSNews.asp?content_id=62007

RhinoBallAuto
11-16-2018, 08:48 PM
Couple other things to note.

You have no obligation to work hybrids... they can be dropped, obviously w no pay.

For purposes of the contract, you are a line holder, therefore you can pickup and drop trips and participate in TT/TTS/TTOT. It may be more desirable to choose trips of your liking rather than participate in the roulette wheel of DOTC (particularly if you commute).

Go to APA Compass page. Lots of good resources there.

Disclaimer: Iíve never had a hybrid line.

Clint
11-17-2018, 04:14 AM
What I did was put a hybrid day on a day before an early sign in or put on a day after a late arrival (after 2200 release if able).
You can't do this. Hybrids are supposed to be placed after a DO. If you pick up anything the day before a hybrid that arrives after 1700, it will be considered in conflict with the hybrid day and it will drop the entire block.

Is it long call? Short call?
Not really either, you are assigned during DOTC for the next days flying like a LC but you are called before a LC/SC gets used
It's neither. You are a lineholder who is assigned during DOTC the day prior. Hybrid days are assigned after RO, before Makeup, Transitional Reserve, and all normal reserves.

What time will I be on call?
You're required to be contactable during DOTC the day prior to your hybrid and you're required to check your schedule at 1500 the day before your hybrid day.

Can I be given a 6 day trip?
Important point here - if you have DOs on your schedule after your hybrid day(s), you can be assigned into those days as FOS doesn't see them as anything other than a blank space. You need to place 24s after your hybrid days to prevent FOS from searching you as legal. If you had two hybrid days followed by four DOs, FOS will search you as legal for six days.

What is the credit if any for a hybrid day?
They are worth the Daily Average Credit Value (DACV) for your bid status in that month. You will be paid the greater of the value of the days or the value of the trip(s) you fly.

PBS LOA - https://www.alliedpilots.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zZT43CfkXOA%3d&portalid=0

Compass Project file on Hybrid days - https://www.alliedpilots.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=W6mQSNwF_EU%3d&portalid=0

Compass Project Index - https://www.alliedpilots.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=7pNarWP1pVg%3d&portalid=0

OVBIII
11-17-2018, 04:45 AM
You can't do this. Hybrids are supposed to be placed after a DO. If you pick up anything the day before a hybrid that arrives after 1700, it will be considered in conflict with the hybrid day and it will drop the entire block.

Well I have done said tactic


It's neither. You are a lineholder who is assigned during DOTC the day prior. Hybrid days are assigned after RO, before Makeup, Transitional Reserve, and all normal reserves.


You're required to be contactable during DOTC the day prior to your hybrid and you're required to check your schedule at 1500 the day before your hybrid day.


Important point here - if you have DOs on your schedule after your hybrid day(s), you can be assigned into those days as FOS doesn't see them as anything other than a blank space. You need to place 24s after your hybrid days to prevent FOS from searching you as legal. If you had two hybrid days followed by four DOs, FOS will search you as legal for six days.


They are worth the Daily Average Credit Value (DACV) for your bid status in that month. You will be paid the greater of the value of the days or the value of the trip(s) you fly.

PBS LOA - https://www.alliedpilots.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=zZT43CfkXOA%3d&portalid=0

Compass Project file on Hybrid days - https://www.alliedpilots.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=W6mQSNwF_EU%3d&portalid=0

Compass Project Index - https://www.alliedpilots.org/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=7pNarWP1pVg%3d&portalid=0

I have done exactly what I typed and I was paid and not used for a hybrid day.

seafeye
11-17-2018, 09:11 AM
Thanks for the responses.
Iíve read the cover sheet regarding Hybrid days. I think Iíll stick to the 48 hours I got assigned. And pick up a trip on my days off.
Figure Iíll be better off making my own schedule than being on an enhanced version of reserve. Worst case is I get paid 48 hours for the month. I have the first two weeks free of December.

The cover sheet says to call or email the base coordinator prior to Nov 22nd to accept or deny hybrid days.
How do I find out who that person is?
That would have been a nice thing to see on the cover sheet.

m78fl370
11-18-2018, 08:58 PM
Is there any way to request a hybrid line? Or is it just assigned to you? Iím pretty miffed that guys junior to me were awarded hybrid lines with Christmas, New Years, etc. off, while Iím stuck working those days even though I am senior to them and bid for them off. Whatís the deal?

OVBIII
11-19-2018, 03:45 AM
Is there any way to request a hybrid line? Or is it just assigned to you? Iím pretty miffed that guys junior to me were awarded hybrid lines with Christmas, New Years, etc. off, while Iím stuck working those days even though I am senior to them and bid for them off. Whatís the deal?

There were some funky PBS awards this go-round. A few guys have already called the help desk and filed an award challenge. Give them a call and make them explain why.
The way I understand the Hybrid system is it looks at the remaining trips after pilots senior to you have a schedule solution, and if PBS (due to your constraints) can get you pairings built to 1/2 of the lower limit of the LCW then it will give you those pairings and you will have "hybrid days" given to bring you up to the LCW.
What I do not know is how "coverage days" figure in to all this.

Icaruss
11-22-2018, 09:13 PM
Does PVR only applies to SCs on the last day of DFP? What about during reserve SC days, do you need to put in both a PVR and RPB to be considered for a sequence during DOTC?

Clint
11-23-2018, 12:32 AM
Does PVR only applies to SCs on the last day of DFP? What about during reserve SC days, do you need to put in both a PVR and RPB to be considered for a sequence during DOTC?
It's only for day one after a DFP. It removes your pre-assigned RAP and allows you to participate in Daily Open Time Coverage as if it was a normal reserve day. On reserve days you only need to submit your RPB.

Icaruss
11-24-2018, 06:16 PM
It's only for day one after a DFP. It removes your pre-assigned RAP and allows you to participate in Daily Open Time Coverage as if it was a normal reserve day. On reserve days you only need to submit your RPB.

Thatís what I thought, thanks.

Also, I know SC reserve are automatically released after 6 hr from RAP start on the last day prior to DFP. Is there a requirement to call CS to confirm being released after 6 hr?

RhinoBallAuto
11-24-2018, 07:44 PM
Thatís what I thought, thanks.

Also, I know SC reserve are automatically released after 6 hr from RAP start on the last day prior to DFP. Is there a requirement to call CS to confirm being released after 6 hr?

Nope. And no requirement to answer your phone after RAP+6:00 either.

Also, depending on the what the reserve list and open time list looks like on the last day, I've had good success calling and asking to be released earlier than six hours... Helps when trying to make a commute!

dweeks
11-26-2018, 10:06 AM
Is there any way to request a hybrid line? Or is it just assigned to you? Iím pretty miffed that guys junior to me were awarded hybrid lines with Christmas, New Years, etc. off, while Iím stuck working those days even though I am senior to them and bid for them off. Whatís the deal?



You cannot bid for a Hybrid line. They are awarded only when you try as hard as you can to avoid reserve (use the Avoid Reserve option) and still fail to get a full line in Layer 7. This is usually due to not enough trips available to get you a full and legal line. If you do NOT bid Avoid RV then a Hybrid is not an option.

At that point, system constraints are removed, and it tries to get you to Ĺ of the bottom of the LCW. If you can get that much credit, you have a Hybrid line. If you cannot get to Ĺ of the bottom of the LCW, you get a reserve line.


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Blueflyer
11-29-2018, 08:00 PM
What does it mean when you have SC Reserve for the month and you put a pass for all RAPs for that day?

Clint
11-29-2018, 11:19 PM
What does it mean when you have SC Reserve for the month and you put a pass for all RAPs for that day?
Nothing. In theory it means they might honor your choice to not be given a RAP, but there is extremely limited benefit to Crew Scheduling to not give you a RAP, so theyíre not going to acknowledge that. Besides, most schedulers donít look at the RAP preferences anyway.

Blueflyer
11-30-2018, 06:18 AM
Nothing. In theory it means they might honor your choice to not be given a RAP, but there is extremely limited benefit to Crew Scheduling to not give you a RAP, so theyíre not going to acknowledge that. Besides, most schedulers donít look at the RAP preferences anyway.

I see, so if they donít give you a RAP (you were awarded SC for the month) and no trips are available, what else can they give you?

Buzzlightyear
11-30-2018, 08:09 AM
I see, so if they donít give you a RAP (you were awarded SC for the month) and no trips are available, what else can they give you?

During DOTC confirmation if you have no trip or RAP assigned you default to LC. 12 hour call out.

This typically will happen on your last day after you complete a trip blocking in after 2145. Nothing in your schedule you have defaulted to LC.

RhinoBallAuto
11-30-2018, 04:20 PM
During DOTC confirmation if you have no trip or RAP assigned you default to LC. 12 hour call out.

This typically will happen on your last day after you complete a trip blocking in after 2145. Nothing in your schedule you have defaulted to LC.

Well, that's almost the whole story. If you block in after 2145, and they put you on LC, yes you are pretty much done. 15 min debrief (or 30), plus 12 hour domicile rest, puts you at 1000 -- auto release for LC on last day...

...but if they have asigned you a sequence or a RAP which is on your activity record at block in you are still on the hook, so long as it starts after rest.

Bonam
12-02-2018, 01:04 PM
So if you have a trip that finishes for example at 0530 on your last reserve day (DFP next day). Are you automatically released if there is nothing on your HI3 after block in?

RhinoBallAuto
12-02-2018, 01:52 PM
So if you have a trip that finishes for example at 0530 on your last reserve day (DFP next day). Are you automatically released if there is nothing on your HI3 after block in?

For LC, you are automatically done if you block in at or after 2145 (Dom) or 2130 (Int) the night prior. You get 15 minutes debrief Dom and 30 Int. Add 12 hours of domicile rest, and you are at 1000.

SC, this gets a little more complex based on what RAP (if any) you were assigned during DOTC the day prior.

Clint
12-02-2018, 11:08 PM
SC, this gets a little more complex based on what RAP (if any) you were assigned during DOTC the day prior.
Not really. You couldnít be assigned to any RAP earlier than 1800, and on your last day you canít be involuntarily assigned to any RAP after 1000, so you would be done on block in with no future assignment.

Icaruss
12-28-2018, 06:53 PM
Is there a way to move DFPs around for a reserve pilot? Does litesabre works for that? If not, what is the process?

Clint
12-29-2018, 02:03 AM
Is there a way to move DFPs around for a reserve pilot? Does litesabre works for that? If not, what is the process?
Only Crew Scheduling can do this, and they very rarely do so.

OVBIII
12-29-2018, 07:25 AM
Clint is right as it pertains to moving your DFPs on your schedule. For my own clarification you are talking putting a DFP where a reserve day is currently and placing a reserve day in lieu of? Or are you talking about making a moveable day a Golden day? (Which is farcical in my opinion)

Icaruss
12-29-2018, 09:19 AM
My example is moving a DFP to cover a military leave day.

Cheddar
12-29-2018, 11:40 AM
My example is moving a DFP to cover a military leave day.



Base planners will do this before the contractual month begins, after call flight office. Not an issue unless it causes an illegality.


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PRS Guitars
12-29-2018, 12:19 PM
Base planners will do this before the contractual month begins, after call flight office. Not an issue unless it causes an illegality.


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Yes, they will (should) never have an issue with this. You are actually helping them out by doing you mail duty on a day off. I will say, I prefer dealing with the base planners, itís easier and gets done quickly.

Cheddar
12-29-2018, 03:03 PM
When you look at the money lost doing MIL, I like to gets PAID. Plus, in my bid status thereís hardly anything going on. I always cover MIL with DFPs when on reserve, unless I absolutely need the day off.


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PRS Guitars
12-29-2018, 03:48 PM
When you look at the money lost doing MIL, I like to gets PAID. Plus, in my bid status thereís hardly anything going on. I always cover MIL with DFPs when on reserve, unless I absolutely need the day off.


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I do to, except in December, when I try to work as little as possible.

Icaruss
12-31-2018, 06:43 AM
Thanks gents. Now can you get on the makeup list when you loose days due to military duty as a Reserve Holder? Or that only applies to line holders missing trips?

OVBIII
12-31-2018, 07:58 AM
Thanks gents. Now can you get on the makeup list when you loose days due to military duty as a Reserve Holder? Or that only applies to line holders missing trips?

Make up is a line holder list. The RSV list is OG and PM. Hope it helps!

viper548
12-31-2018, 08:48 AM
They try and avoid giving out OG and premium. So if you're a reserve, don't expect to be able to work on a day off.

Icaruss
01-02-2019, 10:48 AM
Now for MIL leave in PBS, for which PBS gave you DFPs. Do you get paid for those days? Itís confusing because PBS will automatically assign existing credit even with DFPs on MIL days.

Also FOS will show MIL removal codes on HI10. All very confusing.

PRS Guitars
01-02-2019, 12:17 PM
Now for MIL leave in PBS, for which PBS gave you DFPs. Do you get paid for those days? It’s confusing because PBS will automatically assign existing credit even with DFPs on MIL days.

Also FOS will show MIL removal codes on HI10. All very confusing.

You don’t get paid for mil days if you put them in prior to PBS (or ever for that matter). I almost always work my mil time on days off, so I’m somewhat guessing here. I believe they apply the proration formula to your reserve days. You will work less and get paid less. After the bid run, you can put DFP’s over your mil days and again work & get paid for 18 days.

For a lineholder, pbs will add the 2:45 credit in when building your line (you won’t be paid for it). So if you want to fly a normal line value, you should put mil leave in after the PBS run.

Icaruss
01-02-2019, 01:16 PM
You donít get paid for mil days if you put them in prior to PBS (or ever for that matter). I almost always work my mil time on days off, so Iím somewhat guessing here. I believe they apply the proration formula to your reserve days. You will work less and get paid less. After the bid run, you can put DFPís over your mil days and again work & get paid for 18 days.

For a lineholder, pbs will add the 2:45 credit in when building your line (you wonít be paid for it). So if you want to fly a normal line value, you should put mil leave in after the PBS run.

In my case, PBS automatically covered those days with DFPs. Will I then get paid for those days? Or I need to get the removal code out of my HI10 to get paid for them if I have days off to cover my MIL days.

Cheddar
01-02-2019, 03:59 PM
Now for MIL leave in PBS, for which PBS gave you DFPs. Do you get paid for those days? Itís confusing because PBS will automatically assign existing credit even with DFPs on MIL days.



Also FOS will show MIL removal codes on HI10. All very confusing.



No one I know puts mil in their PBS bid. PBS will penalize you - either by crediting (NOT paid) 2:45 a day against your ALV or 2:45 against a reserve day - again without pay.

Bid what you want, drop MIL LV with the base planner afterwards. A few reasons for this:

1. Youíre not going to know your schedule unless youíre #1 in your bid status (and maybe not even then) prior to the monthly award. Even if your plan is to use mil on DFPs,

2. As stated before, PBS will drop those days for 2:45 and you canít get them back

3. Telling the base planner after the bid allows you to see the companyís cards as it were, and you can make a better assessment of what you really want to do. If you are a LH and find out that you got a great trip and donít really feel like going to that awesome UTA after all? Conversely as a reserve guy, I got my dream of all weekends off. If Iíd bid mil in PBS, I would have received 2:45 of credit, and only been able to make 16 days v 18 days of pay, and STILL be in group one of my reserve bucket!

4. You can have more flexibility to move DFPís to cover mil if youíre on reserve - and as a LH only have to drop 1 mil day to drop an entire trip or two. This leaves you the ability to go into MU or PM for days that would have been wasted (travel day from the unit, etc).

I think you get the point. Also, the base planners seem verrrry cool with helping us mil folks out.


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Icaruss
01-29-2019, 11:49 AM
For those holding long call, is the 12 hr notification for sign in time or pushback time (time in HI3)?

Thanks.

ORDinary
01-29-2019, 12:08 PM
For those holding long call, is the 12 hr notification for sign in time or pushback time (time in HI3)?

Thanks.

Sign in time. Most of your assignments on long call will be given the day before.

Bonam
01-29-2019, 05:35 PM
Is there a way to trip trade out of base? What about Out of Base makeup list, can a trip be traded there? Or is it only to pickup during days offs.

Sunfish FAIP
01-29-2019, 08:02 PM
Is there a way to trip trade out of base? What about Out of Base makeup list, can a trip be traded there? Or is it only to pickup during days offs.

You canít trade out of your 4 part status at all (with the company or another pilot). Out of base makeup is only for line holders (to include hybrid lines) but you must stay within your own division. Reserves can vol to fly on days off (OG) but only in your 4 part bid status.

Hope this helps to clear the mud

OVBIII
01-30-2019, 03:55 AM
You canít trade out of your 4 part status at all (with the company or another pilot). Out of base makeup is only for line holders (to include hybrid lines) but you must stay within your own division. Reserves can vol to fly on days off (OG) but only in your 4 part bid status.

Hope this helps to clear the mud

I'll further muddy the waters, One thing I have been doing lately (it has helped my QOWL) is having a pilot in the opposite division drop one of their posted trips to me and then using said trip to trade into better in division trips. (It must be noted that you have to have a current International qual to do so.). What I have noticed is you cannot pick up open time in opposite division but you can have a trip dropped to you. One more way to skin the cat.

RhinoBallAuto
01-30-2019, 04:53 AM
I'll further muddy the waters, One thing I have been doing lately (it has helped my QOWL) is having a pilot in the opposite division drop one of their posted trips to me and then using said trip to trade into better in division trips. (It must be noted that you have to have a current International qual to do so.). What I have noticed is you cannot pick up open time in opposite division but you can have a trip dropped to you. One more way to skin the cat.

I'm guessing that's not part of the contract... It's likely one of the many shortcomings of FOS programming. Hats off to you for finding a way to benefit from it though!

OVBIII
01-30-2019, 08:45 AM
I'm guessing that's not part of the contract... It's likely one of the many shortcomings of FOS programming. Hats off to you for finding a way to benefit from it though!

Iíve looked through and I donít see it anywhere. I think you are right itís FOS programming. I do make it a point to only pick up from another pilot (below the line if you will). I want to be clear Iím not trying to solve the companyís problems for them. Just trying to free up a pilot and make a little money for mom and the kids!



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