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View Full Version : SWA vs UPS


Whale Driver
11-18-2018, 05:11 PM
Looking for real-time perspective. Six month new hire @ WN living in base on the east coast vs 5X commuting to ANC? Good/Bad/Indifferent? Opinions please?


Riverside
11-18-2018, 05:47 PM
Looking for real-time perspective. Six month new hire @ WN living in base on the east coast vs 5X commuting to ANC? Good/Bad/Indifferent? Opinions please?

Why would anyone want to commute to anc? Live in base!

flyguy81
11-18-2018, 06:35 PM
Where do you want to live? What airline has bases there?

Commuting sucks. Iíd avoid it if possible.


NotMrNiceGuy
11-18-2018, 10:55 PM
Seniority and career earnings will be far better at Brown. Living in base is less relevant when the company positions you for trips. ANC is temporary if you want it to be.

BoilerUP
11-19-2018, 02:51 AM
I presume your screenname indicates previous experience you believe would get you sent to 747 ANC vs. a light twin in the lower 48?

gsphuntr
11-19-2018, 07:23 AM
Your commute to ANC wouldnít be long in the grand scheme of your career.. short term pain, long term gain.

My buddies at LUV bust their balls... great company, but, jeezus... yíall work too hard.

flyguy81
11-19-2018, 02:12 PM
Your commute to ANC wouldnít be long in the grand scheme of your career.. short term pain, long term gain.

My buddies at LUV bust their balls... great company, but, jeezus... yíall work too hard.

I work 11 days next month. This is the easiest job I've ever had. I'd rather spend time at home vs sitting in a hotel for 40 hrs.

OOfff
11-19-2018, 02:13 PM
Your commute to ANC wouldnít be long in the grand scheme of your career.. short term pain, long term gain.

My buddies at LUV bust their balls... great company, but, jeezus... yíall work too hard.

I work 11 days next month. This is the easiest job I've ever had. I'd rather spend time at home vs sitting in a hotel for 40 hrs.


Prepare the measuring tape

viper548
11-19-2018, 05:07 PM
Live in base if at all possible. I'd choose UPS over southwest but if you are set on living in a Southwest base, then I'd work there. I recently moved to base and life is SO much better. I had a pretty easy commute (SMF-PHX). 1.5hr flight, 10 flights a day, almost never in the jumpseat. I would leave my house on average 5 hours prior to show time and i would get home on average 5 hours after release. 10 hours a week x 50 weeks a year=500 hours just going to and from work. Add in a few times we diverted on the last leg of the trip and had to spend the night. Living in base 7 miles from the airport I leave 30 mins prior to show and get home about 20 minutes after release. Career earnings are lower at Southwest but living in base will give you more opportunity for last minute premium trips.

Sliceback
11-19-2018, 05:13 PM
Viper - only 10 hrs commuting per trip is decent. I know of 12-14 hr increases per trip. That's why living in base has a huge value. Leave at 3 PM? Commuter leaves their house at 0800-1000. A local is golfing, playing tennis, sleeping in, mowing the lawn, gym, etc. Trip ends at noon? A full afternoon at home. Hardly counts as a day of work. A commuter might be home for dinner.

kingairfun
11-19-2018, 07:00 PM
Your commute to ANC wouldnít be long in the grand scheme of your career.. short term pain, long term gain.

My buddies at LUV bust their balls... great company, but, jeezus... yíall work too hard.


1st rule about Southwest...

Never say anything negative about Southwest...

-Tyler Darby

flyguy81
11-20-2018, 06:18 AM
Prepare the measuring tape

Haha.

It's all relative. If you want to travel the world on the company dime and fly some bigger metal.....don't work for WN, B6, F9, NK, G4.

If you want to be home and have a good QOL....the LCC's might be more appealing.

For me, it was about the QOL. I lived in a WN base and decided I hated commuting and wasn't going to move. Would I want to fly something bigger? Sure, although the thought of sitting in a jet for 14 hours straight sounds like torture.

All these SWA vs XYZ threads are silly.

1. Where do you want to live?
2. What do you want out of your career?

Pick the airline that satisfies both answers, assuming you can get a call and get hired. It's really that simple. You won't know if you made a good call until your retirement party.

RckyMtHigh
11-20-2018, 10:08 AM
A lot of factors here, but probably boils down to do you want good quality of life now that will stay about the same throughout your career, or not so good quality of life for the next 5-ish years with great quality of life to follow? For me that broke down to wanting to spend time with my kids while they were still young, knowing I was passing on money and opportunity later on.

Single or married, kids or no, length of career, how secure are you financially, health - there are lots of factors to consider. I donít know this firsthand, but from friends at UPS and FedEx commuting is a lot less painful, especially with senority when you can get paid for front or backend deadhead.

Sliceback
11-20-2018, 02:11 PM
Fourteen hour trips at the legacy airlines come with the dreaded “9 on, 21 off” schedules. Super senior FO’s fly them. “Dozing for dollars” as half your time is spent on break. No one is forced to fly them but guys more than willingly fly them. 777 CA? Nah, I prefer being senior FO and flying the 9 on/21 off trips.”
And even the ‘short’ 7-9 hr flights are pretty easy. One flight a day is a nice gig.

RckyMtHigh
11-20-2018, 05:21 PM
Fourteen hour trips at the legacy airlines come with the dreaded ď9 on, 21 offĒ schedules. Super senior FOís fly them. ďDozing for dollarsĒ as half your time is spent on break. No one is forced to fly them but guys more than willingly fly them. 777 CA? Nah, I prefer being senior FO and flying the 9 on/21 off trips.Ē
And even the Ďshortí 7-9 hr flights are pretty easy. One flight a day is a nice gig.

Whatís the timeline to be holding a good senior FO sked? Not just holding the seat, but a line like that? Is that 5-10 years or 15-20 years on property?

MoonShot
11-20-2018, 06:18 PM
Whatís the timeline to be holding a good senior FO sked? Not just holding the seat, but a line like that? Is that 5-10 years or 15-20 years on property?

More like 20-25+ at Delta. The senior FOs, on the pure widebody fleets, are really senior currently. Could come down (years wise) as things transition to a younger pilot group since we had big gaps in hiring 2001-2007 and 2010-2014.

Sliceback
11-20-2018, 08:41 PM
Right now itís probsbly 28-30yrs. But for guys hired in 2014 it might be 12-15 yrs.

RJSAviator76
11-21-2018, 06:40 AM
Living in base vs. commuting to work... to me personally, it'd be no contest. If I'm on the plane in any capacity, I'm either getting paid or going on vacation. Personal choice.

I don't care for widebody flying or multiple time zone changes. Again, personal choice.

I don't begrudge those who feel differently. Different strokes for different folks.

As for SWA vs. threads... we need SWA vs. Hawaiian thread. ;)

RckyMtHigh
11-21-2018, 08:50 AM
More like 20-25+ at Delta. The senior FOs, on the pure widebody fleets, are really senior currently. Could come down (years wise) as things transition to a younger pilot group since we had big gaps in hiring 2001-2007 and 2010-2014.

I was pretty sure I wouldnít have much of a widebody career when I was transitioning out of the military as a 45 year old a couple years back, but I didnít think it was that long.

Hopefully trending better for the guys getting hired now.

MoonShot
11-21-2018, 06:33 PM
I was pretty sure I wouldnít have much of a widebody career when I was transitioning out of the military as a 45 year old a couple years back, but I didnít think it was that long.

Hopefully trending better for the guys getting hired now.

I mean Iím talking the really senior guys with awesome schedules. I thought that was the question. Widebody INT can be had way junior to that but youíre not doing Rome 3 days leaving on Tuesdays every week without some serious seniority.

Roper92
11-22-2018, 11:15 AM
Haha.

It's all relative. If you want to travel the world on the company dime and fly some bigger metal.....don't work for WN, B6, F9, NK, G4.

If you want to be home and have a good QOL....the LCC's might be more appealing.

For me, it was about the QOL. I lived in a WN base and decided I hated commuting and wasn't going to move. Would I want to fly something bigger? Sure, although the thought of sitting in a jet for 14 hours straight sounds like torture.

All these SWA vs XYZ threads are silly.

1. Where do you want to live?
2. What do you want out of your career?

Pick the airline that satisfies both answers, assuming you can get a call and get hired. It's really that simple. You won't know if you made a good call until your retirement party.

Interesting take. I see quicker QOL at the legacies because of the multiple aircraft and seat positions available. You can choose to stay in a junior seat and climb the list rapidly. To each their own. Great problem to have. Hard to beat having a pension plus a 12%DC (or even 9% at FDX).

flyguy81
11-22-2018, 05:56 PM
Interesting take. I see quicker QOL at the legacies because of the multiple aircraft and seat positions available. You can choose to stay in a junior seat and climb the list rapidly. To each their own. Great problem to have. Hard to beat having a pension plus a 12%DC (or even 9% at FDX).

The big 4 all have a DC of at least 15% starting in Jan. Most LCC's offer a DC for retirement now too.

What UPS/FedEx have that nobody else does it the A plan (pension). You'll make more at UPS and won't need to swap jets for more $ since the pay is the same.

That said, most everyone else has PBS and it's a double edged sword. Sure you can pick and choose trips that fit your monthly needs but during training/vacation months you're nowhere near the QOL that line bidding gets you.

There's plusses and minuses at any carrier. I'd just go where you think you'll feel fulfilled in your career and where your commute will be minimal to net you more time at home. If that's UPS, then go there. If that's SWA, then stay put. If its someone else....well, you get the point.

Seven3Seven
11-24-2018, 10:12 PM
Live in base if at all possible. I'd choose UPS over southwest but if you are set on living in a Southwest base, then I'd work there. I recently moved to base and life is SO much better. I had a pretty easy commute (SMF-PHX). 1.5hr flight, 10 flights a day, almost never in the jumpseat. I would leave my house on average 5 hours prior to show time and i would get home on average 5 hours after release. 10 hours a week x 50 weeks a year=500 hours just going to and from work. Add in a few times we diverted on the last leg of the trip and had to spend the night. Living in base 7 miles from the airport I leave 30 mins prior to show and get home about 20 minutes after release. Career earnings are lower at Southwest but living in base will give you more opportunity for last minute premium trips.


Why would anyone commute to PHX when you can drive to OAK? Oh yeah the squadron. Good move

PRS Guitars
11-25-2018, 06:22 AM
Why would anyone commute to PHX when you can drive to OAK? Oh yeah the squadron. Good move

Heís not a SWA pilot and not a Gaurd/reserve pilot...so that might be why.

Profane Kahuna
11-25-2018, 06:35 AM
Great problem to have. Hard to beat having a pension

I see a pension and I see a liability. Something that could be taken away at any point leaving you and your family with a huge hole in retirement income.

It’s happened at almost every airline that had a pension. What would you do if it happens the day after you retire?

BoilerUP
11-25-2018, 06:41 AM
Live off the money saved in your 401k and defined contribution fund?

Profane Kahuna
11-25-2018, 07:22 AM
Live off the money saved in your 401k and defined contribution fund?

For me personally, thatís what I would do. Because of the liability of a pension, I would be saving as much as I could in other vehicles.

But how many people with the promise of a $100,000+ a year pension would be doing that?

I donít know the statistics on that, but I do see a lot of old airline pilots working as simulator instructors, etc after age 65. They all seemed to be legacy guys who lost a pension in bankruptcy.

BoilerUP
11-25-2018, 07:34 AM
But how many people with the promise of a $100,000+ a year pension would be doing that?

Given that both UPS (12%) and FDX (9%) have defined contribution plans in addition to their DB pensions, and all have watched the legacies lose their DB pensions in 1113 proceedings over the last 17 years, Iíd hazard to say virtually all.

Of course bankruptcy laws have changed since the legacies had their pensions taken...




I donít know the statistics on that, but I do see a lot of old airline pilots working as simulator instructors, etc after age 65. They all seemed to be legacy guys who lost a pension in bankruptcy.


Are they working post-65 because of need (divorces, expensive lifestyle, bad investments) or just ďsomething to doĒ? Prob a mix of both...

Profane Kahuna
11-25-2018, 09:27 AM
Given that both UPS (12%) and FDX (9%) have defined contribution plans in addition to their DB pensions, and all have watched the legacies lose their DB pensions in 1113 proceedings over the last 17 years, Iíd hazard to say virtually all.

Of course bankruptcy laws have changed since the legacies had their pensions taken...

Are they working post-65 because of need (divorces, expensive lifestyle, bad investments) or just ďsomething to doĒ? Prob a mix of both...

I agree that people ďshouldĒ have learned by now....but that doesnít seem to be the case. Iím pretty sure there were previous cycles of boom and bust and pensions disappearing (Pan Am, TWA, etc) and that didnít seem to cause these guys to save in addition to their pension.

So in my opinion, ďvirtually allĒ is a pretty bold statement that doesnít match the reality of the last pilot era that went through mass bankruptcies. They are working past 65 and blame the loss of pension as the reason.

I hope my friends at FedEx and UPS never have to live through that.

BoilerUP
11-25-2018, 09:42 AM
The last time there were mass bankruptcies that caused pilot groups to lose their defined benefit pensions, practically none also had a defined contribution plan.

Losing the DB meant they lost all their retirement income.

UPS and FDX pilots both currently have diversified retirement income from both DB and DC plans, providing a level of risk mitigation that didnít exist for many (most) legacy pilots in the early 2000s.

Put another way, itíd be ignorant to think pilots that still have DB plans today did not, as a whole, learn any financial lessons from the post-9/11 bankruptcy era.

howardhughes8
11-25-2018, 10:03 AM
I see a pension and I see a liability. Something that could be taken away at any point leaving you and your family with a huge hole in retirement income.

Itís happened at almost every airline that had a pension. What would you do if it happens the day after you retire?

Do you have any idea, have done any research into these pension plans? The structure, the funding levels?

While nothing is impossible, Fedex and UPS were still making money during the great recession. There are two ways for a company to get rid of a pension plan, and one of them is now very limited (bankruptcy), the other being the union negotiating it away. Again, while not impossible, I simply canít see Fedex or UPS getting to the level of bankruptcy, especially when revenue and income has steadily been increasing for many years, high single digits solid and steady, with a small trough 2009-2011. Personally, Iíd rather have say a 25-30% DC in lieu of a mixed DB/DC, but that will most likely never happen.

Comparing the Legacy DB wipe out with Fedex/UPS is not even in the same ballpark.

Basing, well, living in base is completely priceless!! WN is a great job, however, IF upgrade time is important to someone, I would most definitely not go to WN. You are going to sit right seat for a looooooong time, and the large amount of hiring the last 5 years would make me hesitate a bit. Very young work force.

Flying 10pm to 6am consistently is very hard on the body, takes a lot of discipline to get proper amount of rest, exercise, etc, not for everyone, regardless of $$$$$.

No right or wrong answer.

Profane Kahuna
11-25-2018, 11:24 AM
The last time there were mass bankruptcies that caused pilot groups to lose their defined benefit pensions, practically none also had a defined contribution plan.

Losing the DB meant they lost all their retirement income.

UPS and FDX pilots both currently have diversified retirement income from both DB and DC plans, providing a level of risk mitigation that didnít exist for many (most) legacy pilots in the early 2000s.

Put another way, itíd be ignorant to think pilots that still have DB plans today did not, as a whole, learn any financial lessons from the post-9/11 bankruptcy era.

It would be ignorant to think that everyone saves extra and would be happy to lose $100,000+ per year in retirement income.

Profane Kahuna
11-25-2018, 11:36 AM
Do you have any idea, have done any research into these pension plans? The structure, the funding levels?

While nothing is impossible, Fedex and UPS were still making money during the great recession. There are two ways for a company to get rid of a pension plan, and one of them is now very limited (bankruptcy), the other being the union negotiating it away. Again, while not impossible, I simply canít see Fedex or UPS getting to the level of bankruptcy, especially when revenue and income has steadily been increasing for many years, high single digits solid and steady, with a small trough 2009-2011. Personally, Iíd rather have say a 25-30% DC in lieu of a mixed DB/DC, but that will most likely never happen.

Comparing the Legacy DB wipe out with Fedex/UPS is not even in the same ballpark.

Basing, well, living in base is completely priceless!! WN is a great job, however, IF upgrade time is important to someone, I would most definitely not go to WN. You are going to sit right seat for a looooooong time, and the large amount of hiring the last 5 years would make me hesitate a bit. Very young work force.

Flying 10pm to 6am consistently is very hard on the body, takes a lot of discipline to get proper amount of rest, exercise, etc, not for everyone, regardless of $$$$$.

No right or wrong answer.

I did not make any disparaging statements about FedEx, UPS, or the state of their pension plans or business model as a whole. I actually think they are great companies and will probably do well in the future. And yes I have done the research to include reading through 10-K and other SEC filings of various airlines.

I am just saying thay if you pay attention to airline history; almost everyone goes bankrupt at some point in time and everybody loses their pension.

Pan Am, TWA, etc were some of the titans of the industry but it even happened to them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_bankruptcies_in_the_United_States

howardhughes8
11-25-2018, 12:18 PM
I did not make any disparaging statements about FedEx, UPS, or the state of their pension plans or business model as a whole. I actually think they are great companies and will probably do well in the future. And yes I have done the research to include reading through 10-K and other SEC filings of various airlines.

I am just saying thay if you pay attention to airline history; almost everyone goes bankrupt at some point in time and everybody loses their pension.

Pan Am, TWA, etc were some of the titans of the industry but it even happened to them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airline_bankruptcies_in_the_United_States

You are comparing pax airlines vs cargo companies, totally different segments. The ONLY thing that airlines have in common with cargo companies is they fly airplanes. Even the yields of the airline segments are much different.

Profane Kahuna
11-25-2018, 03:01 PM
You are comparing pax airlines vs cargo companies, totally different segments. The ONLY thing that airlines have in common with cargo companies is they fly airplanes. Even the yields of the airline segments are much different.

Iím not sure where you see me comparing cargo to pax operations. I never made any comparison. I simply said the history of airlines is full of bankruptcies where the companies shed CBAs and steal pensions.

Here is another list, there are cargo companies on it.

Airlines For America | U.S. Airline Bankruptcies (http://airlines.org/dataset/u-s-bankruptcies-and-services-cessations/)

I hope no one has to go through this in the future, pax or cargo. But I am not going to ignore the history of this industry when it comes to bankruptcies and pensions.

Caveman
11-26-2018, 03:42 AM
I'd offer that an AI augmented cockpit driven by the liabilities associated with a hull loss caused by fatigue/error would be a more valid point of concern than a bankruptcy/loss of an A plan.

10 years ago if you told people they could buy a house on your phone, elevators, trains, and Ubers would run by autonomously...it was humorous.

Evaluate the liability associated with the typical widebody, operating over a dense urban areas, with fatigued crews at 0230, in complex airspace....that'll be what drives the investments to mature the tech to augment our cockpits with AI.

Human error can only serve to accelerate the timeline.

Whale Driver
11-26-2018, 07:17 AM
Thanks for the input.

Guppydriver95
12-04-2018, 04:23 PM
Interesting take. I see quicker QOL at the legacies because of the multiple aircraft and seat positions available. You can choose to stay in a junior seat and climb the list rapidly. To each their own. Great problem to have. Hard to beat having a pension plus a 12%DC (or even 9% at FDX).

The elephant in the room is the toll that working at FDX or UPS takes on oneís body over a 30+ year career. Who gives a damn if thereís a pension if a large percentage of pilots are dead by age 70. I know that for the decade I flew long haul I could feel a tangible difference in my fatigue level and overall well being. I bailed and now fly mostly domestic stuff. Iím sure that a little digging could produce the actual stats re lifespans of pilots at UAL,DAL, and AMR vs FDX or UPS. But Iíd be willing to bet that freight pilots lifespans are signifigantly shorter than legacy carrier pilots.

DirtyPurple
12-04-2018, 04:31 PM
The elephant in the room is the toll that working at FDX or UPS takes on oneís body over a 30+ year career. Who gives a damn if thereís a pension if a large percentage of pilots are dead by age 70. I know that for the decade I flew long haul I could feel a tangible difference in my fatigue level and overall well being. I bailed and now fly mostly domestic stuff. Iím sure that a little digging could produce the actual stats re lifespans of pilots at UAL,DAL, and AMR vs FDX or UPS. But Iíd be willing to bet that freight pilots lifespans are signifigantly shorter than legacy carrier pilots.



Elephant? Cool story bro. I guess flying less than half the block hours over a 30-year career makes the lowly box hauler die sooner? Iíll take my 400 block hours a year in a widebody any day. Iím not a math guy, but 1000 block hrs a year as a pax bubba is...greater than 2x the radiation exposure? Pray tell, doctor, how is it that cargo guys universally perish at age 70?

Love to hear the uneducated stabs at cargo guys from the pax fellas. It may have been pure nights for cargo back when you rode a dinosaur to work...stick your head out of your hole and absorb some new data. Check out CURRENT bidpacks before propagating fake news.

The pension should probably be a non-factor in choosing, at least @ Purple. Iím not counting on that being there for me due to union shenanigans.

Iím sure you need to reload your quiver of Internet arrows and get back to Rachel Maddow. Cya.

Guppydriver95
12-04-2018, 05:48 PM
Elephant? Cool story bro. I guess flying less than half the block hours over a 30-year career makes the lowly box hauler die sooner? Iíll take my 400 block hours a year in a widebody any day. Iím not a math guy, but 1000 block hrs a year as a pax bubba is...greater than 2x the radiation exposure? Pray tell, doctor, how is it that cargo guys universally perish at age 70?

Love to hear the uneducated stabs at cargo guys from the pax fellas. It may have been pure nights for cargo back when you rode a dinosaur to work...stick your head out of your hole and absorb some new data. Check out CURRENT bidpacks before propagating fake news.

The pension should probably be a non-factor in choosing, at least @ Purple. Iím not counting on that being there for me due to union shenanigans.

Iím sure you need to reload your quiver of Internet arrows and get back to Rachel Maddow. Cya.

Sigh...

Youíve chosen to make it personal. Thatís unfortunate. For starters, I fly nowhere near 1000 hours. Closer to 550-600. Second, nobody referred to freight flying as ďlowlyĒ pilots. Your delicate sensibilities are showing. Itís a genuine concern that deserves more that a ďcool story broĒ juvenile response. I concede that the overall compensation package is better there. Just want those thinking about it to understand the very real health risks associated with a career of back side of the clock flying.

Take care.

symbian simian
12-04-2018, 07:10 PM
Elephant? Cool story bro. I guess flying less than half the block hours over a 30-year career makes the lowly box hauler die sooner? Iíll take my 400 block hours a year in a widebody any day. Iím not a math guy, but 1000 block hrs a year as a pax bubba is...greater than 2x the radiation exposure? Pray tell, doctor, how is it that cargo guys universally perish at age 70?

Love to hear the uneducated stabs at cargo guys from the pax fellas. It may have been pure nights for cargo back when you rode a dinosaur to work...stick your head out of your hole and absorb some new data. Check out CURRENT bidpacks before propagating fake news.

The pension should probably be a non-factor in choosing, at least @ Purple. Iím not counting on that being there for me due to union shenanigans.

Iím sure you need to reload your quiver of Internet arrows and get back to Rachel Maddow. Cya.

A few years ago (1992) when I started as a controller before I became a pilot, the CAA did a study on the lifespan off the average controller and when the results came out, had to reduce the pension age from 65 to 56 because it turned out the average controller had a life expectancy of 62 years. There are several studies that suggest flying night cargo even for the best cargo companies reduces your life expectancy by about 10 years compared to equally educated people who sleep when it is dark. You are more than welcome to close your eyes (haha) to the facts.

Thunder1
12-04-2018, 07:13 PM
LIVE IN DOMICILE. Commuting blows big time!

Regardless of what major airline you end up at money will not be a problem for you so choose QOL which always means living in domicile regardless of whether that is pax or freight job.

And if you are 6 months into your job at Southwest and living in a domicile you should be seeing by now that with our current overstaffing of F/O's you can get paid to sit at home on reserve. I will end they year with over 110 days of unused reserve. You're not going to do that as a commuter.

6010C
12-04-2018, 11:25 PM
There are several studies that suggest flying night cargo even for the best cargo companies reduces your life expectancy by about 10 years compared to equally educated people who sleep when it is dark. You are more than welcome to close your eyes (haha) to the facts.

What study? 10 years? Not 8? Not 11? The study said a round number of 10? I refuse to believe.....

Oh no. Shortness of breath. I canít feel my face! Iíve fallen and I canít get up. I could of lived to a ripe old age but Symbianís Studies got me! I wish I flew red-eyes for the majors and avoided this fate.

Iím closin my eyes! Symbian Studies was right!! Why did we negotiate an A plan!!! Whyyyyyyyyy?......

tomgoodman
12-05-2018, 05:39 AM
This subject has been flogged repeatedly, for example:

https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fedex/118038-fedex-pilot-life-expectancy.html

BoilerUP
12-05-2018, 05:42 AM
There are several studies that suggest flying night cargo even for the best cargo companies reduces your life expectancy by about 10 years compared to equally educated people who sleep when it is dark. You are more than welcome to close your eyes (haha) to the facts.

Can you provide a link to any of those "several studies"?

Yes, there are studies that discuss mortality and life expectancy for shift workers, which arguably cargo pilots are...but I am not aware of a single study specifically focused on professional pilots - who are healthier than the average population with significantly more than average income and time off.

Std Deviation
12-05-2018, 11:42 AM
Well I’m at B6, so I’m screwed given the number of transcon red eyes we fly. Oh, hey there Fedex XXX, it’s us again right behind you.

Three years in the job I ran into one of my new hire classmates that went to the “before midnight only” E190. Hadn’t seen him since indoc. First words out of his mouth...”You look like $#!T” Thanks, I guess.:D