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View Full Version : Bad news for Compass RTP


Mystikman23
11-20-2018, 11:07 AM
Just got off the phone with a Compass Pilot recruiter. Apparently the Rotary Transition Program is no longer available as the company has “met their quota of FOs”. Getting ready to transition and Compass was my number #1 pick. **** me right? I’ll still be scanning this forum for pure entertainment purposes. Maybe get a sign-off as a Forum Fluffer.


Otterbox
11-20-2018, 12:35 PM
Just got off the phone with a Compass Pilot recruiter. Apparently the Rotary Transition Program is no longer available as the company has “met their quota of FOs”. Getting ready to transition and Compass was my number #1 pick. **** me right? I’ll still be scanning this forum for pure entertainment purposes. Maybe get a sign-off as a Forum Fluffer.

Word is Envoy is getting an LAX base in 2019. They may be a viable option instead.

MySaabStory
11-20-2018, 01:19 PM
Word is Envoy is getting an LAX base in 2019. They may be a viable option instead.

Hmmmm. That sounds familiar.

Oh yeah.

2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019.....


N914FJ
11-20-2018, 04:31 PM
Hmmmm. That sounds familiar.

Oh yeah.

2014/2015/2016/2017/2018/2019.....

Compass MSP base in 2019

N200NN
11-20-2018, 04:53 PM
Word is Envoy is getting an LAX base in 2019. They may be a viable option instead.

It’s that time of the year again huh?

pangolin
11-20-2018, 05:32 PM
Goes with the Mesa Chicago base.

Avroman
11-20-2018, 05:47 PM
I hear SkyWest will hire you for half the pay and base you in New York or Detroit.

amcnd
11-20-2018, 06:26 PM
I hear SkyWest will hire you for half the pay and base you in New York or Detroit.

DFW. Thats the new Jr base... but they do have a RTP program.

sn00p
11-20-2018, 07:35 PM
I hear SkyWest will hire you for half the pay and base you in New York or Detroit.

I hear this is a Compass thread that relates to their RTP program.

So in terms of SkyWest who cares...:rolleyes:

yrbroom
11-21-2018, 12:34 PM
I hear SkyWest will hire you for half the pay and base you in New York or Detroit.

Except they just got raises

GearUpHeadDown
11-21-2018, 04:18 PM
The only reason a regional would give up a pool of applicants is if they saw demand decreasing at their particular airline.

AirBat
11-21-2018, 06:45 PM
Classes have been full. The rotor people have done poorly in training overall and really struggled. So it sucks but I understand why they’d stop.

VIRotate
11-22-2018, 01:10 AM
The only reason a regional would give up a pool of applicants is if they saw demand decreasing at their particular airline.

Oh you clearly don’t know TSH management then. This is actually fairly standard SOP for us.

chrisreedrules
11-22-2018, 01:40 AM
Classes have been full. The rotor people have done poorly in training overall and really struggled. So it sucks but I understand why they’d stop.

Many RTP pilots have struggled at every other airline too...

Taco280AI
11-22-2018, 04:48 AM
Many FW pilots have really struggled, done poorly and failed in training as well.

As an RTP myself, is there any actual data showing the rotor pilots are struggling, or are people taking more notice of their struggles?

When I went through, without a single failure or setback or issue of any kind, I did see quite a few fixed wing guys fail, get set back, and struggle.

The reason for getting rid of the RTP could easily be TSH being short sighted again and saying we're currently properly staffed - now - so why bother? They have reduced the bonus and they're not even calling fixed wing guys back who have applied, does that mean it's because they've done poorly in training? Over and over again CP pilots have seen the horribly poor planning of TSH and their reactive habits while lacking any proactive management and decision making.

Dalda Erlines
11-22-2018, 08:10 AM
Many FW pilots have really struggled, done poorly and failed in training as well.

As an RTP myself, is there any actual data showing the rotor pilots are struggling, or are people taking more notice of their struggles?

When I went through, without a single failure or setback or issue of any kind, I did see quite a few fixed wing guys fail, get set back, and struggle.

The reason for getting rid of the RTP could easily be TSH being short sighted again and saying we're currently properly staffed - now - so why bother? They have reduced the bonus and they're not even calling fixed wing guys back who have applied, does that mean it's because they've done poorly in training? Over and over again CP pilots have seen the horribly poor planning of TSH and their reactive habits while lacking any proactive management and decision making.

TSH.

Filler

koala98g
11-22-2018, 09:11 AM
Classes have been full. The rotor people have done poorly in training overall and really struggled. So it sucks but I understand why they’d stop.

Like Taco, I count myself among the successful rotor dudes. In my class of 10, there were two of us. We both zipped right through. I can’t say the same of a FW guy or two. All of the other RW guys I know got through painlessly, as well, except 1 particular, arrogant POS that should have never been hired. He is a special case of awful, and I wish he’d listed me as a reference on his application so I could have saved us all the embarrassment. That’s not to suggest that us RW guys are better or anything of the sort. We’re simply good pilots as a whole just like the other new hires.

Why are they shutting down the RTP, then? I shall answer your question with a question! Why front bonus money to new hires (essentially how our RTP worked) if you have a sufficient number of applicants to meet your hiring needs? My theory lies in the obvious answer to that question.

bronc
11-22-2018, 09:16 AM
Like Taco, I count myself among the successful rotor dudes. In my class of 10, there were two of us. We both zipped right through. I can’t say the same of a FW guy or two. All of the other RW guys I know got through painlessly, as well, except 1 particular, arrogant POS that should have never been hired. He is a special case of awful, and I wish he’d listed me as a reference on his application so I could have saved us all the embarrassment. That’s not to suggest that us RW guys are better or anything of the sort. We’re simply good pilots as a whole just like the other new hires.

Why are they shutting down the RTP, then? I shall answer your question with a question! Why front bonus money to new hires (essentially how our RTP worked) if you have a sufficient number of applicants to meet your hiring needs? My theory lies in the obvious answer to that question.

Remember that spongebob episode where he says "imagination" within the rainbow. Replace that with "no pilot shortage" 😉

koala98g
11-22-2018, 09:42 AM
Remember that spongebob episode where he says "imagination" within the rainbow. Replace that with "no pilot shortage" 😉


Shhhh.....

There are no pilots. More ducats, please.

Hawk1
11-22-2018, 12:37 PM
We had three RTP in my class and the failures were not them. Are we really playing the “My time as a CFI is more valuable”? The prior airline guys have a valid complaint against us non-airline guys. The rotor v CFI v Military FW is just a d..k measuring contest. FYI we all suck equally 🤣.

poorflyer
11-22-2018, 05:41 PM
We had three RTP in my class and the failures were not them. Are we really playing the “My time as a CFI is more valuable”? The prior airline guys have a valid complaint against us non-airline guys. The rotor v CFI v Military FW is just a d..k measuring contest. FYI we all suck equally 🤣.

There was a time a few months back that the failures for new hires were outstandingly high and was even mentioned on an employee call. Who was failing is probably only known by instructors but the rumors started that it was mostly those with less current fixed wing/instrument time.

Excargodog
11-22-2018, 08:51 PM
I think everyone is sort of over analyzing the RTP situation. After the hiring freeze and sudden increase in attrition as the majors started hiring a lot of people, Compass got tremendously short of FOs. They instituted the bonus and even allowed RTP people to borrow against their anticipated bonus. By these means, the company largely made up the backlog and - if what the APC profile is showing for pilot numbers is true - will be fully staffed once everybody currently in training is done with IOE.

Now that doesn't mean hiring will stop - there is still continuing attrition as people move to other jobs - but the backlog that required the larger numbers (which were a challenge for instructor and sim availability) has been largely alleviated.

That being the case, the company is again cutting back class sizes and bonus amounts.

koala98g
11-22-2018, 11:02 PM
I think everyone is sort of over analyzing the RTP situation. After the hiring freeze and sudden increase in attrition as the majors started hiring a lot of people, Compass got tremendously short of FOs. They instituted the bonus and even allowed RTP people to borrow against their anticipated bonus. By these means, the company largely made up the backlog and - if what the APC profile is showing for pilot numbers is true - will be fully staffed once everybody currently in training is done with IOE.

Now that doesn't mean hiring will stop - there is still continuing attrition as people move to other jobs - but the backlog that required the larger numbers (which were a challenge for instructor and sim availability) has been largely alleviated.

That being the case, the company is again cutting back class sizes and bonus amounts.

That’s the ticket. And....I’m new, but.....so the cycle (re)begins...?

VIRotate
11-24-2018, 05:41 AM
I think everyone is sort of over analyzing the RTP situation. After the hiring freeze and sudden increase in attrition as the majors started hiring a lot of people, Compass got tremendously short of FOs. They instituted the bonus and even allowed RTP people to borrow against their anticipated bonus. By these means, the company largely made up the backlog and - if what the APC profile is showing for pilot numbers is true - will be fully staffed once everybody currently in training is done with IOE.

Now that doesn't mean hiring will stop - there is still continuing attrition as people move to other jobs - but the backlog that required the larger numbers (which were a challenge for instructor and sim availability) has been largely alleviated.

That being the case, the company is again cutting back class sizes and bonus amounts.

This.

Filler

Cyio
11-28-2018, 04:32 AM
Word is Envoy is getting an LAX base in 2019. They may be a viable option instead.

lol, been hearing an LAX base for years. Its a pervasive myth, right up until it isn't.

VIRotate
11-29-2018, 04:53 AM
lol, been hearing an LAX base for years. Its a pervasive myth, right up until it isn't.

2015, 2016, 2017, 2018 and now 2019. At this rate, I'll be getting my water cannon salute on the 797-900LRMAXNEO by the time these rumors actually come into fruition.

rickair7777
11-29-2018, 07:10 AM
There was a time a few months back that the failures for new hires were outstandingly high and was even mentioned on an employee call. Who was failing is probably only known by instructors but the rumors started that it was mostly those with less current fixed wing/instrument time.

This is along-standing fact, and has been known by the majors for decades, which is why they don't hire RW pilots.

Regionals are hurtin' now, so they are getting creative.

RW pilots are not worse than FW pilots but they are different. The problems are training risk, and also the reality that an RW pilot with low FW time may not have the right instincts in a gusty crosswind landing.

Taco280AI
11-29-2018, 07:32 AM
Here we go again... the Cessna 150 pilot cruising around on a sunny afternoon is better than the dual turbine engine, 22000 pound, military helicopter pilot who has deployed into combat, sometimes flying up "high" and sometimes at 30' AGL @ 145 KIAS, pulling a 200 foot orbit over the medevac bird in a hot LZ while hearing the gunfire below over the ear pro and noise of the helicopter, while monitoring five different radios and staying calm under pressure... yeah we suck, are the only training failures, FW pilots are gods, we should be blessed to even be in your presence.


There any fact based numbers for that THIS DECADE?

SlamClicker
11-29-2018, 07:45 AM
Here we go again... the Cessna 150 pilot cruising around on a sunny afternoon is better than the dual turbine engine, 22000 pound, military helicopter pilot who has deployed into combat, sometimes flying up "high" and sometimes at 30' AGL @ 145 KIAS, pulling a 200 foot orbit over the medevac bird in a hot LZ while hearing the gunfire below over the ear pro and noise of the helicopter, while monitoring five different radios and staying calm under pressure... yeah we suck, are the only training failures, FW pilots are gods, we should be blessed to even be in your presence.


There any fact based numbers for that THIS DECADE?

After you remove that pine cone, reread that post.

He said “different”, not “better” and RW is different from FW. Moving to airline training from a RW comes with its own challenges in addition to those that a FW gets - airline training has a high failure rate to begin with.

And yes, it is well know in airline training departments that RW pilots come with their additional set of challenges more often then not. It’s a fact of life just like a FW guy with prior jet time will do better than a FW guy with nothing but 172 time - again more often then not. There are exceptions in every scenario.

Taco280AI
11-29-2018, 07:56 AM
I get that. I'd just like to see numbers from this decade showing rotor guys fail at higher rates, not from decades ago. Without anything to back it up rumors are worthless (directed at poorflyer's comment).

I've known some terrible rotor pilots and wondered how they even got through. But in training they weren't the ones who failed, set back, or needed additional time. Small sample size, but personal observation.

If there are numbers from this decade to prove that, I'll happily shut up and just be disappointed in my fellow RW pilots for making us all look bad.

poorflyer
11-29-2018, 06:34 PM
Sorry didn't mean to put anyone on the spot. The helo guys I've flown with have been great and have much better stories than me. #compassforlife #doublewave

Dalda Erlines
11-30-2018, 08:18 AM
Not to start another debate...but I do happen to know the training failure rate had more to do with the age of trainee rather than the motion of the wing.

buddies8
12-01-2018, 07:12 AM
The cfi pilots have difficulty staying ahead of the aircraft and planning, they quickly fall on the automation to save them whereas the rotor guys only issue is the last 100 feet for some. As a checkairman that's my analysis.

SilentLurker
03-18-2019, 07:32 AM
Is it possible the RW program at Compass stopped due to F9 flow? Anticipated increase recruitment expected, or is increased attrition wanted?

Just curious since the RTP ended at Compass a few short months ago. F9 flow detail was approved or in its final details around that time. Also with regards to “pilot shortage” majority of regionals/FFD appear properly ”staffed” or at the least staffing is planned for the next 1-2yr. Simply hiring for attrition down-the-line at Mesa, ENY, Republic, EDV, SKW, Horizon.

Excargodog
03-18-2019, 10:16 AM
I think a lot of airlines were simply caught short by the surge of hiring at the majors and their sudden shortage was exacerbated by the fact that their own training departments were hard hit by attrition and were never really geared fir the catchup numbers they needed to train even before that. Nor were there enough sims system wide.

So everyone stocked up on fresh meat using whatever things it took, bonuses or RTP, some folks overstocking. Now the problem seems to be more of an experience thing or at least unwillingness to give up QOL for upgrade as many of the FOs hired in some places are either unable or seem unwilling to take the upgrade.

That's diverting the resources away from helping new people in the door.

My analysis anyway, FWIW.

koala98g
03-18-2019, 10:17 AM
I still think that the Compass RTP ended for simple economic reasons. There are more than enough candidates that are free (-ish) to acquire whereas an RTP candidate requires a larger $ commitment. There’s simply no need to front the money while recruitment does not appear to be an issue.

I think that, as much as we may not like it, Compass management is pretty savvy about maintaining staffing levels just a little below “adequate.” So, despite us murmuring about inadequate reserves and generally projecting that we need more people, Management has our numbers right where they want them. I don’t think the F9 deal materially affects that.

VIRotate
03-19-2019, 07:13 PM
I still think that the Compass RTP ended for simple economic reasons. There are more than enough candidates that are free (-ish) to acquire whereas an RTP candidate requires a larger $ commitment. There’s simply no need to front the money while recruitment does not appear to be an issue.

I think that, as much as we may not like it, Compass management is pretty savvy about maintaining staffing levels just a little below “adequate.” So, despite us murmuring about inadequate reserves and generally projecting that we need more people, Management has our numbers right where they want them. I don’t think the F9 deal materially affects that.

This. And it was a PITA to deal with.



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