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View Full Version : Atlas b766


Benver
11-20-2018, 02:23 PM
Hi I have been invited for interview at Atlas. I want to gather info regarding the 767 to be prepared to reject/accept an offer.
Does anybody know what kind of routes are they doing on the 767? Mostly USA (amazon)? Or a lot of international routes? Also is the 767 round gauges or EFIS? ( i fly A320 and in todays job market I am not sure about how advisable is to go back to round gauges)
I appreciate any intel👍👍


Reactivity
11-20-2018, 02:28 PM
( i fly A320 and in todays job market I am not sure about how advisable is to go back to round gauges)


If you've got something against flying old airplanes, ACMI is not the place for you.

But honestly, nobody cares about the shape of the flight instruments you've been flying. Round, square, hexagonal - it makes no difference to anyone. :rolleyes:

PotatoChip
11-20-2018, 02:31 PM
If you've got something against flying old airplanes, ACMI is not the place for you.

But honestly, nobody cares about the shape of the flight instruments you've been flying. Round, square, hexagonal - it makes no difference to anyone. :rolleyes:

There are plenty of employers that care.


Reactivity
11-20-2018, 02:52 PM
There are plenty of employers that care.

I've been through a number of interviews over the last 20 years with some big names, and not a one of them ever asked about flight instruments, and my experience with EFIS spans only the last 7 years.

In any case, 767s are all EFIS. Some have been converted to LCD flat panels.

Atrasaty
11-20-2018, 03:04 PM
I've been through a number of interviews over the last 20 years with some big names, and not a one of them ever asked about flight instruments, and my experience with EFIS spans only the last 7 years.

In any case, 767s are all EFIS. Some have been converted to LCD flat panels.

All Atlas 767 are factory half a$$ Glass. EADI/EHSI and round dials for the rest. Plenty on here with regard to current toxic situation at Atlas so I won't belabor that point. Try Kalitta if you want to progress in the ACMI world.

RyeMex
11-20-2018, 03:04 PM
Be aware that, should you accept a job with Atlas, the following will apply:

1. You will earn $1,600/mo for the first 4 months of employment.

2. Expect to make min guarantee, or close to it. Guarantee for year 1 is 50 hours, and thereafter it is 62 hours. I have only earned more than guarantee 2 months this year so far. I am a 3rd year FO and I have never earned more than $69k here.

3. Expect to be away from home between 17-20 days per month, including travel days.

4. A lot of the flying on the 767 now is domestic stuff for amazon, but we also do international flying for DHL and for the DoD.

5. Don't believe the promise of a 2-3 year upgrade. As I've said, I'm a 3rd year FO and I do not anticipate that I'll be able to hold Captain for another 18-24 months. And upgrade times are climbing. Also, there is a seat lock, so you won't be able to bid over to the 747 to make more money until after 3 years on property.

6. We are currently experiencing the most antagonistic relationship between a pilot group and management that most people here have ever seen. If you accept a job, be prepared to be thrown into the middle of an all out war between the pilots and management.

7. Make sure that you're familiar with what is (and isn't) in our CBA before you accept a job here.

Sick? You're down to guarantee pay.
Training this month? You're down to guarantee pay.
Scheduling decides to change your pattern for the hell of it? You're down to guarantee pay.
Take vacation? You're down to guarantee pay.

Seriously, if you can't survive every month's paycheck being 62*hourly rate (or 50*hourly rate for the first year), I'd highly suggest that you look elsewhere. Absolutely everyone else is hiring right now. Everyone I know here who is younger than 60 is trying to leave. I even know a couple 62 year olds who are filling out applications.

PotatoChip
11-20-2018, 07:20 PM
I've been through a number of interviews over the last 20 years with some big names, and not a one of them ever asked about flight instruments, and my experience with EFIS spans only the last 7 years.

In any case, 767s are all EFIS. Some have been converted to LCD flat panels.

Good for you. The point still stands, there are many employers who care. Further, I've seen more than a couple fail out of training jumping into their first glass cockpit.

DC8DRIVER
11-20-2018, 08:20 PM
Hi I have been invited for interview at Atlas. I want to gather info regarding the 767 to be prepared to reject/accept an offer.
Does anybody know what kind of routes are they doing on the 767? Mostly USA (amazon)? Or a lot of international routes? Also is the 767 round gauges or EFIS? ( i fly A320 and in todays job market I am not sure about how advisable is to go back to round gauges)
I appreciate any intel👍👍

Wow. Most pilots complete their due diligence long before they apply for the job. It'd be great if this is just a practice interview for you prior to going to a good airline.

KA350Driver
11-20-2018, 08:31 PM
Good for you. The point still stands, there are many employers who care. Further, I've seen more than a couple fail out of training jumping into their first glass cockpit.
They were bad pilots then. It had nothing to do with the damn instruments. If you canít transition from round gauges to glass then I donít know what to tell you. Itís not rocket science.

Reactivity
11-21-2018, 06:04 AM
Good for you. The point still stands, there are many employers who care. Further, I've seen more than a couple fail out of training jumping into their first glass cockpit.

If you say so.

In the past few years, UPS has hired a ridiculous number of Atlas pilots. (The story goes that at one point, the UPS chief pilot called the Atlas chief pilot to advise him that there were something like 60 Atlas pilots in the UPS pool at that time.) In my two years at ABX, where we have bunch of those 767s with the old instruments, pilots have been hired at UPS, FedEx, United, American, Alaska, Virgin America, and Southwest. And those are just the ones I know about. Apparently, those companies really don't care. So if you're interested in flying for one of those, it looks like your career prospects won't be damaged by a stint flying old airplanes.

Lockheed
11-21-2018, 06:22 AM
I am a 3rd year FO and I have never earned more than $69k here.

That is truly BS
How they continue to jerk you guys around is really unbelievable in this market

I know you know this but it bares repeating....at K4 we have many 2yr fo's making 100k more than that...

No Land 3
11-21-2018, 06:47 AM
Let me add to the list, a friend of mine at Atlas was hired by Delta a few months after upgrading on the 767.
As for your pay at Atlas, I find it absolutely disgusting what your management is doing.
Connie has benefited directly by paying pilots more, everyone is making more money including him. Flights do not get cancelled, people come in on days off to help, ability to staff more airplanes to serve more customers. It's been a win-win for everyone.
I look at ABX and Atlas management in disbelief. Guess the stock price is the only metric they care about! Privately owned has its benefits.

gollum
11-21-2018, 07:18 AM
I know you know this but it bares repeating....at K4 we have many 2yr fo's making 100k more than that...

Hell, most 1 year FOs are clearing That.

WhipWhitaker
11-21-2018, 07:38 AM
Hell, most 1 year FOs are clearing That.

First year on a K4 76 making 169k?? Thatís incredible

kolt66
11-21-2018, 08:16 AM
I look at ABX and Atlas management in disbelief. Guess the stock price is the only metric they care about! Privately owned has its benefits.

But the stock price just continues to drop - for both AAWW and ATSG. Both companies are down for the year. They clearly don't care about their shareholders either. At this point they're just deliberately destroying their own companies.

boeingdvr
11-21-2018, 08:52 AM
I've heard a few new hires sitting R3 at the hub complaining about, "this isn't what they signed up for."

They have come to realize upgrade is 5 years away minimum, and with no growth on the 767, their life is now sealed for the foreseeable future.

Welcome to Atless

boeingdvr
11-21-2018, 09:01 AM
Oh. R3 = 3am to 9am at the CVG hub. It's completely slammed with 100's of pilots. Nowhere to sleep, sit, or a corner to find.

Then they activate you @ 845am to operate to a garden spot like GSO or RIC. ��

It's quite humbling. You realize you're doing it for free on 62 hour min pay at 80 bucks an hour.

Come on over and see for yourself.

Puck Hawg
11-21-2018, 09:14 AM
First year on a K4 76 making 169k?? Thatís incredible

How do you figure?

CardboardCutout
11-21-2018, 09:30 AM
I'm guessing the original quote was misread. I suspect the idea was there are a few second year 747 guys making ~169k, and most first year 747 guys are at or near 100k. Correct me if I'm wrong.

No Land 3
11-21-2018, 10:45 AM
I'm guessing the original quote was misread. I suspect the idea was there are a few second year 747 guys making ~169k, and most first year 747 guys are at or near 100k. Correct me if I'm wrong.

2nd year with some OT will gross around 160k, at least I am. First year with a decent amount more OT will as well. You can make as much as you want. It really is all about deciding what you want more, time at home or money? It is difficult to be paid just the min guarantee. If I really wanted to, I probably could of grossed 200k my second year if I was an OT *****. I like my time at home however.

nitefr8dog
11-21-2018, 11:20 AM
Oh. R3 = 3am to 9am at the CVG hub. It's completely slammed with 100's of pilots. Nowhere to sleep, sit, or a corner to find.

Then they activate you @ 845am to operate to a garden spot like GSO or RIC. ��


It's quite humbling. You realize you're doing it for free on 62 hour min pay at 80 bucks an hour.

Come on over and see for yourself.

Can you say..... fatigued

5Ypilot
11-23-2018, 03:50 PM
I cannot say enough bad about Atlas, a complete disgrace and embarrassment to the industry. A toxic horrible work environment, I am in awe of what management is able to get away with, yet the planes still keep moving and the golden giant keeps reaping glorious profits. If anyone has an ounce of self respect they would not come here. I have had several people suggest with a straight face that I consider going to a regional (8th yr 767 CA). What I can say is, one way or another, I won't be working here soon. So that's my honest advice to anyone considering this dump. The ACMI charter thing can be interesting and Omni or Kalitta would be great if thats what floats your boat. If you hate your life, don't want to make any money, and don't want to be home then Atlas is worth a look.

PotatoChip
11-23-2018, 03:57 PM
They were bad pilots then. It had nothing to do with the damn instruments. If you canít transition from round gauges to glass then I donít know what to tell you. Itís not rocket science.

If you say so.

In the past few years, UPS has hired a ridiculous number of Atlas pilots. (The story goes that at one point, the UPS chief pilot called the Atlas chief pilot to advise him that there were something like 60 Atlas pilots in the UPS pool at that time.) In my two years at ABX, where we have bunch of those 767s with the old instruments, pilots have been hired at UPS, FedEx, United, American, Alaska, Virgin America, and Southwest. And those are just the ones I know about. Apparently, those companies really don't care. So if you're interested in flying for one of those, it looks like your career prospects won't be damaged by a stint flying old airplanes.

Perhaps some of them were bad pilots. At least two of them had been flying 727's for the past 10 years and had real struggles.
I'm aware the airlines you mentioned will hire folks like you describe. My point was simply that you said "nobody cares about the shape of the flight instruments you've been flying" is wrong. There are some that care. I'm not suggesting a person make a decision based on this, i'm just pointing out that some places DO care.

nitefr8dog
11-23-2018, 04:37 PM
Perhaps some of them were bad pilots. At least two of them had been flying 727's for the past 10 years and had real struggles.
I'm aware the airlines you mentioned will hire folks like you describe. My point was simply that you said "nobody cares about the shape of the flight instruments you've been flying" is wrong. There are some that care. I'm not suggesting a person make a decision based on this, i'm just pointing out that some places DO care.
Mostly they care about how you do flying the sim on your interview check...the glass in most of the 767s is nothing more than general aviation stuff. The flat panel glass is an easy transition. We got the 767S in 1998 and everyone came from 20 yrs of round dial or basic efis...the flat panel glass was not an issue for anyone. Now... if they just are horible pilots the process will weed them out, if not during sims which is rote training...then during IOE when they have to seat of the pants fly the plane.

Reactivity
11-23-2018, 09:56 PM
There are some that care. I'm not suggesting a person make a decision based on this, i'm just pointing out that some places DO care.

OK - now I'm curious. Who are these "some" to which you refer?

boeingdvr
11-24-2018, 03:33 AM
I cannot say enough bad about Atlas, a complete disgrace and embarrassment to the industry. A toxic horrible work environment, I am in awe of what management is able to get away with, yet the planes still keep moving and the golden giant keeps reaping glorious profits. If anyone has an ounce of self respect they would not come here. I have had several people suggest with a straight face that I consider going to a regional (8th yr 767 CA). What I can say is, one way or another, I won't be working here soon. So that's my honest advice to anyone considering this dump. The ACMI charter thing can be interesting and Omni or Kalitta would be great if thats what floats your boat. If you hate your life, don't want to make any money, and don't want to be home then Atlas is worth a look.

Agreed. I've actually thought about going back to the RJ's as a DEC, signing bonus, and flow.

It's absolutely awful here, I can't believe how poor the pay, and work rules are.

KingAirKiddo
11-24-2018, 04:14 AM
Sadly, I'm considering a lateral move or even DEC regional position, as well. I came here for the potential of what this place could be with a modicum of investment in people and infrastructure. The reality is that management is only interested in revenue production and bottom line results and could care less about organizational culture and keeping good employees happy and motivated.

Bottom line, "potential" does not pay the bills or hold my long term interest. I do not recommend Atlas to anybody in its present form.

HercDriver130
11-24-2018, 06:15 AM
2nd year with some OT will gross around 160k, at least I am. First year with a decent amount more OT will as well. You can make as much as you want. It really is all about deciding what you want more, time at home or money? It is difficult to be paid just the min guarantee. If I really wanted to, I probably could of grossed 200k my second year if I was an OT *****. I like my time at home however.

76s guys cant make that kind of change... not without a ton of OT anyway... there lines and flying is just not built that way.

boeingdvr
11-24-2018, 06:30 AM
76s guys cant make that kind of change... not without a ton of OT anyway... there lines and flying is just not built that way.

Don't plan on OT on the 76. First off, its seniority based. Secondly, after you've sat 10 days of r-3 at the hub, last thing you want to do is help the company out for a few bowls of porridge.

But, if you're dying to find out, come on over, and see for yourself!

PotatoChip
11-24-2018, 06:33 AM
OK - now I'm curious. Who are these "some" to which you refer?

Largely corporate operators and some charter operators, and foreign contracts. If one steps outside of the airline box, and starts reading through other job postings, EFIS, glass, NG, and other buzz words are often used. Also, for many expat jobs there is an emphasis on glass cockpits and experience with advanced avionics. Yes, I realize this isn't the big US airlines, but I was just making the point that there are places that care, and you never know, you may suddenly find yourself in a position to need to apply to those places.
Flying a 767 with round gauges probably isn't going to hurt someone who has been flying Airbuses, but it at least might be a consideration to some people.
I remember when I flew at a regional that transitioned guys to the CRJ after decades of round dials. Several of them flat out quit, others struggled through the new cockpit, and others had no issues. Point is, as an HR recruiter hiring pilots, I'd want less of a chance of people struggling, so I'd choose those with experience that would have a better chance of success. And as we know, unfortunately we are in an HR driven hiring world now.
So while it may be a small point, it's still a consideration, and not a complete flip of the hand as if it doesn't matter at all.

BoilerUP
11-24-2018, 07:54 AM
I went from CRJ (ProLine 4) to an old Citation II (round dials and a KLN90B) to a CJ2+ (ProLine21) to the A300. It really isnít THAT difficult.

Plenty of dinosaurs have transitioned from the DC8 to MD11 and DC9 to A320 without issue.

PL21, Fusion, G1000/3000/5000, and EPIC-based platforms are pretty easy to learn; if you can handle 767 avionics, you can learn any current bizav avionics suite. Any 91 chief pilot or department manager that thinks otherwise is ignorant and likely not worth working for.

Reactivity
11-24-2018, 02:03 PM
Largely corporate operators....

Ugh - don't get me started.

No Land 3
11-24-2018, 06:52 PM
Very least, 20 minutes of playing Microsoft flightsim should be enough to train a round dial person to fly glass.

itsjustajob
11-25-2018, 06:24 AM
Hi I have been invited for interview at Atlas. I want to gather info regarding the 767 to be prepared to reject/accept an offer.
Does anybody know what kind of routes are they doing on the 767? Mostly USA (amazon)? Or a lot of international routes? Also is the 767 round gauges or EFIS? ( i fly A320 and in todays job market I am not sure about how advisable is to go back to round gauges)
I appreciate any intel����

By the numbers:

B767 FO
Pay Rate = $57.60 an hour
50 hour Guarantee

Training Pay = $1,600 a month Flat rate ( 4 months MINIMUM due to back log on OE and Class Size)

After Taxes and Insurance typical take home on training pay = $1,200 ($600 15th and 31st).

Plan on no less than 4 months in training until completion of OE

Once you complete OE base pay $3,340.12 or $2,506.00 after taxes and insurance are taken out ($1,2503 every two weeks).

Base Pay / take home at Atlas for a 1st year 767 FO
$33,126 / $24,845

More than likely you will be working a lot of OT, but due to the way the pay is pro-rated, lack of Trip Rig, no Duty Rig, No line value protection, No bid award protection, no international over-rides, etc etc, a survey of multiple FO's after their first year netted an additional (Gross / net) :
$13,409 / $9,386

For planning purposes average pay first year 767 FO:
Gross: $46,535
Net: $34, 231

Per Diem adds a little bit, but typically this amounted to an additional:
$12,326 per year using a highly used First year FO on the 767.

NOTE: Despite what seems to be told by HR in interviews, Upgrades due to the latest revision in the FOM will more than likely not be available to a 767 FO for at least 4-5 years (Revision 95, which is NOT waiverable by management since it is FAA mandated).

Jurassic Jet
11-25-2018, 06:58 AM
NOTE: Despite what seems to be told by HR in interviews, Upgrades due to the latest revision in the FOM will more than likely not be available to a 767 FO for at least 4-5 years (Revision 95, which is NOT waiverable by management since it is FAA mandated).

Whatís the deal with this?

RyeMex
11-25-2018, 08:05 AM
Whatís the deal with this?

Per our Flight Operations Manual, any potential captain must have:

(1) 2,500 hours of total time on a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

and

1,000 hours of PIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

OR

(2) 1,500 hour of SIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight and 500 hours as SIC with the company.

boeingdvr
11-25-2018, 08:06 AM
Whatís the deal with this?

The deal. 1k pic in jet before captain. It doesn't matter. Honestly- I would be shocked if a new hire saw upgrade on the 76 in under 5 year. Right now we have roughly 1k first officers on property.

itsjustajob
11-25-2018, 09:13 AM
Whatís the deal with this?

Whatís the deal?
Bent airplanes, pod strikes, and more issues than I care to comment on.

Scrutiny is high, and so is the time needed to get off/released from OE.

There is a growing list of FOís who will be by-passed due to low utilization, and no way to build the required time for upgrade.

The 767/737 fleets are very low utilization fleets. 150-250 hours a YEAR is not uncommon.

Absent ďsoft time work rulesĒ you canít even make up the lost money vs that of a regional airline.

aviatorhi
11-25-2018, 09:39 AM
Whatís the deal?
Bent airplanes, pod strikes, and more issues than I care to comment on.

I'm not at K4... but having written three Part 121 air carrier training manuals the the deal has Level C simulator (vs. Level D) experience requirements written all over it.

Lockheed
11-25-2018, 10:11 AM
I'm not at K4... but having written three Part 121 air carrier training manuals the the deal has Level C simulator (vs. Level D) experience requirements written all over it.

All those coments i believe are about the situation at abex not K4....we're not at 1k fo's.....yet

nitefr8dog
11-25-2018, 10:53 AM
All those coments i believe are about the situation at abex not K4....we're not at 1k fo's.....yet
Not ABX...we only have 200 ish pilots total. Plus no upgrade restrictions. We had a FO at one time with 1800 total time and 0 PIC turbine upgrade to DC8 captain and made it......this was a time when ABX had a 50% washout rate on the 8 and they were proud of it! Plus it's tough to get a pod strike on the 767....I am sure it's been done but not at ABX.

nitefr8dog
11-25-2018, 11:47 AM
I'm not at K4... but having written three Part 121 air carrier training manuals the the deal has Level C simulator (vs. Level D) experience requirements written all over it.
You realize this is an Atlas thread yes?

Otterbox
11-25-2018, 12:59 PM
Per our Flight Operations Manual, any potential captain must have:

(1) 2,500 hours of total time on a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

and

1,000 hours of PIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

OR

(2) 1,500 hour of SIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight and 500 hours as SIC with the company.

Not good news for the King Air Pilots theyíve been hiring in recent years from ISR, but anyone with 2-3 years of regional time in a CRJ 200/ ERJ 145 or bigger should be fine.

CallmeJB
11-25-2018, 04:21 PM
NOTE: Despite what seems to be told by HR in interviews, Upgrades due to the latest revision in the FOM will more than likely not be available to a 767 FO for at least 4-5 years (Revision 95, which is NOT waiverable by management since it is FAA mandated).

Not to put too fine a point on it, but the language in that FOM bulletin has a note right below it that says it is waiverable by management.

These requirements are not driven by Level C vs Level D, they are driven by what has already been stated (hard landings, unstabilized approaches, etc).

DownInPetaluma
11-25-2018, 04:46 PM
Is the wrinkled 767 a write-off?

Itsajob
11-25-2018, 05:21 PM
Per our Flight Operations Manual, any potential captain must have:

(1) 2,500 hours of total time on a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

and

1,000 hours of PIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

OR

(2) 1,500 hour of SIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight and 500 hours as SIC with the company.

41,000 lbs isn’t that big of an airplane. These seem like minimalist requirements to be a captain on a heavy going to places that most people have never heard of. I know that you guys don’t fly as many hours every month as those at Delta or United and this could take time for some, but then again being a captain at an ACMI carrier is much more demanding than being a captain at a company that has vast resources in place every time the jet lands. The job that you do is way more difficult than what the legacy carriers do and requiring some quality experience before you are handed the keys to a heavy is a good thing.

Twin Wasp
11-25-2018, 06:59 PM
Is the wrinkled 767 a write-off?

No, it's getting straightened out.

freighthound
11-25-2018, 08:00 PM
No, it's getting straightened out.

No pun intended.

RyeMex
11-25-2018, 09:29 PM
41,000 lbs isnít that big of an airplane. These seem like minimalist requirements to be a captain on a heavy going to places that most people have never heard of. I know that you guys donít fly as many hours every month as those at Delta or United and this could take time for some, but then again being a captain at an ACMI carrier is much more demanding than being a captain at a company that has vast resources in place every time the jet lands. The job that you do is way more difficult than what the legacy carriers do and requiring some quality experience before you are handed the keys to a heavy is a good thing.

I donít by any means disagree with you. The main point is that, when Atlas tells people that theyíll be a captain in 18-24 months, itís a bold faced lie. Particularly on the Southern side of the house, and whenever they hire guys with no 121 experience.

TiredSoul
11-25-2018, 09:38 PM
Per our Flight Operations Manual, any potential captain must have:

(1) 2,500 hours of total time on a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

and

1,000 hours of PIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight

OR

(2) 1,500 hour of SIC time in a turbojet aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds max take-off weight and 500 hours as SIC with the company.

Which means you need 1500hrs of ďbigĒ airplane time so thatís at the most 3 years if you come from a smaller plane.

RyeMex
11-25-2018, 09:49 PM
Which means you need 1500hrs of ďbigĒ airplane time so thatís at the most 3 years if you come from a smaller plane.

Maybe on the 747. Iíve been on the 767 for two and a half years and have something like 620 hours. We just donít log that much time. And I doubt that the 737 on the Southern side is doing all that much more.

aviatorhi
11-26-2018, 01:47 AM
All those coments i believe are about the situation at abex not K4....we're not at 1k fo's.....yet

Sorry these cargo threads all blend together sometimes... that requirement reappears for Atlas and K4, in various places, and mirrors the Sim training experience requirements.

TiredSoul
11-26-2018, 01:51 AM
Sorry these cargo threads all blend together sometimes... that requirement reappears for Atlas and K4, in various places, and mirrors the Sim training experience requirements.

Everything blends together.
Days, weeks, months, seasons.
Breakfast, lunch and dinner al loose their meaning.
I came home one day and the cat didnít recognize me and it was a different season then when I left.
Wouldnít change it for the world.
:D

No Land 3
11-26-2018, 03:05 AM
A CRJ 700/900 fits the requirement easily for >41000 lbs, probably a 200 as well?

NorthernPilot1
11-28-2018, 06:45 AM
Maybe on the 747. Iíve been on the 767 for two and a half years and have something like 620 hours. We just donít log that much time. And I doubt that the 737 on the Southern side is doing all that much more.

Company policy aside, you still have to comply with all of 121.436. So if you come in with no 121 SIC or equivalent you're looking at 4ish years to build that time.