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View Full Version : LCW questions


sherpster
11-21-2018, 12:33 AM
Hoping you smart guys can educate me a little on LCW/PBS.

I have only been on the line since April. I am LGA based. I remember the top end of the LCW since I came on line being @90. For some reason I thought it would drop more this fall. Here are the LCW for LGA 737 FO the last 3 months:

NOV FOR DEC: 75:39-89:39
OCT FOR NOV: 76:24-90:24
SEP FOR OCT: 76:20-90:20

The contract talks about RALV:
(2) For Groups II through V aircraft . 74 and 82 credited hours
(then the JCBA goes on to talk about the company being able to raise it to 85hrs....at least thats what I "think" it says)

Sticking with 82 hours RALV.
If I add 7 hours to 82 I get 89hrs for the top end.

Questions:
1. are other bases always @90hrs on the top end or is that just a LGA thing since the base always has everyone leaving here like rats leaving a sinking ship.
2. assuming senior lineholders want the low end of the LCW (82 minus 7 = 75hrs) doesnt that mean junior lineholders will always get 90hr lines? 17 day lines.
3. Assuming I am under 50% lineholder seniority, will PBS build me a line to no more than 82hrs or less??? 15-16 day lines.
4. Is reducing the RALV a priority at all in negotiations? Did I miss that in the union emails?


OVBIII
11-21-2018, 03:45 AM
Hoping you smart guys can educate me a little on LCW/PBS.

I have only been on the line since April. I am LGA based. I remember the top end of the LCW since I came on line being @90. For some reason I thought it would drop more this fall. Here are the LCW for LGA 737 FO the last 3 months:

NOV FOR DEC: 75:39-89:39
OCT FOR NOV: 76:24-90:24
SEP FOR OCT: 76:20-90:20

The contract talks about RALV:
(2) For Groups II through V aircraft . 74 and 82 credited hours
(then the JCBA goes on to talk about the company being able to raise it to 85hrs....at least thats what I "think" it says)

Sticking with 82 hours RALV.
If I add 7 hours to 82 I get 89hrs for the top end.

Questions:
1. are other bases always @90hrs on the top end or is that just a LGA thing since the base always has everyone leaving here like rats leaving a sinking ship.
2. assuming senior lineholders want the low end of the LCW (82 minus 7 = 75hrs) doesnt that mean junior lineholders will always get 90hr lines? 17 day lines.
3. Assuming I am under 50% lineholder seniority, will PBS build me a line to no more than 82hrs or less??? 15-16 day lines.
4. Is reducing the RALV a priority at all in negotiations? Did I miss that in the union emails?

While I dont have most of your answers, I have been emailing my base reps about your 4th question. I truly believe it should be a big priority in section 6.
Your questions overall bring a very good point about the level of hours being assigned during PBS bidding. Like you, I am interested and concerned.

sherpster
11-21-2018, 06:10 AM
While I dont have most of your answers, I have been emailing my base reps about your 4th question. I truly believe it should be a big priority in section 6.
Your questions overall bring a very good point about the level of hours being assigned during PBS bidding. Like you, I am interested and concerned.

I just did the same.


viper548
11-21-2018, 06:35 AM
Hoping you smart guys can educate me a little on LCW/PBS.

I have only been on the line since April. I am LGA based. I remember the top end of the LCW since I came on line being @90. For some reason I thought it would drop more this fall. Here are the LCW for LGA 737 FO the last 3 months:

NOV FOR DEC: 75:39-89:39
OCT FOR NOV: 76:24-90:24
SEP FOR OCT: 76:20-90:20

The contract talks about RALV:
(2) For Groups II through V aircraft . 74 and 82 credited hours
(then the JCBA goes on to talk about the company being able to raise it to 85hrs....at least thats what I "think" it says)

Sticking with 82 hours RALV.
If I add 7 hours to 82 I get 89hrs for the top end.

Questions:
1. are other bases always @90hrs on the top end or is that just a LGA thing since the base always has everyone leaving here like rats leaving a sinking ship.
2. assuming senior lineholders want the low end of the LCW (82 minus 7 = 75hrs) doesnt that mean junior lineholders will always get 90hr lines? 17 day lines.
3. Assuming I am under 50% lineholder seniority, will PBS build me a line to no more than 82hrs or less??? 15-16 day lines.
4. Is reducing the RALV a priority at all in negotiations? Did I miss that in the union emails?


1. Some bases are more seasonal than others so their LCW can fluctuate throughout the year. It's possible LGA is higher because of staffing always being low.
2. Essentially, yes, that is how it would work if the seniors bid low lines. ON your reason report it will show a required min line value. That value is calculated during the run, so you have no idea how many hours you have to work ahead of time. That number will go up or down based on what the people senior to you were awarded.
3. Not automatically. You would have to specifically bid low hours. 50% is not a magic number with PBS. Look at coverage days, especially in smaller bases. ORD/737/CA/I the number 2 guy has a coverage day. He's 2/40 in his base. He's bidding 5% and has a coverage day! If the 5% guy has a coverage day, it's quite possible the 5% guy also has a min required line value higher than the average.
4. I sure hope so. TTS/TTOT are next to useless. We'd be much better off being assigned fewer hours then pick up if you want to.

Thedude
11-25-2018, 09:27 PM
LCW is a sham.
Early on with PBS, you could actually say you wanted to fly the bottom end of the LCW and you would kinda get trips to reflect that. Now it will build you up to the min line value (whatever it is called) and disregard if you want to fly low time. For Nov, I wanted 73 hrs, the bottom of the LCW...PBS built me a month that was 83 hrs and did not award at least a dozen trips because of the min credit thing.
I still say this is all based on management bonuses (bone-us). By having everyone fly 5 more hrs per month, it reduces the number of bodies required by about 6 for every 100.

Clint
11-25-2018, 11:25 PM
I still say this is all based on management bonuses (bone-us). By having everyone fly 5 more hrs per month, it reduces the number of bodies required by about 6 for every 100.
Your last sentence is accurate, but it's the opposite cause and effect. It's not that we're not flying more to reduce the need for bodies, it's that we don't have enough bodies and so we are flying more.

dweeks
11-26-2018, 09:52 AM
LCW is a sham.

Early on with PBS, you could actually say you wanted to fly the bottom end of the LCW and you would kinda get trips to reflect that. Now it will build you up to the min line value (whatever it is called) and disregard if you want to fly low time. For Nov, I wanted 73 hrs, the bottom of the LCW...PBS built me a month that was 83 hrs and did not award at least a dozen trips because of the min credit thing.

I still say this is all based on management bonuses (bone-us). By having everyone fly 5 more hrs per month, it reduces the number of bodies required by about 6 for every 100.



Youre not correct.

If everyone wanted to fly high time, the juniors would be forced low (bottom half of the window).

When everyone (seniors) want to fly low, usually to maximize days off, the juniors have to fly in the top half of the LCW.

In either case, the system awards as many guys as possible the low/high time they want. At some point, the system says that from this pilot on, everyone junior has to fly in the top half, or bottom half of the LCW, depending on what the seniors were awarded.


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sherpster
11-26-2018, 10:21 AM
Thats how I understand it but I feel it is too high. Needs to be lower. My rep said they are aware of it but I didnt get a warm and fuzzy they care.

sherpster
11-26-2018, 10:26 AM
Part of the response from my rep:

After PBS went operational, the company failed to reduce the number of pilots on reserve us forcing the remaining pilots flying a line to be scheduled high time lines. This then forces more reserves to fly because the pilots with the line are unable to pick up additional flying. Its a dog chasing his tail conundrum.

dweeks
11-26-2018, 12:52 PM
Part of the response from my rep:



After PBS went operational, the company failed to reduce the number of pilots on reserve us forcing the remaining pilots flying a line to be scheduled high time lines. This then forces more reserves to fly because the pilots with the line are unable to pick up additional flying. Its a dog chasing his tail conundrum.



THAT I agree with. The min required RV settings should be lower. That will allow lower line averages.

Having said that, my comment about who has to fly in the upper of the range still applies, regardless of where the LCW is set.


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