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ACMItrash
11-21-2018, 04:56 AM
https://amp.businessinsider.com/pilots-amazon-air-consider-quitting-survey-2018-11


Otterbox
11-21-2018, 05:54 AM
https://amp.businessinsider.com/pilots-amazon-air-consider-quitting-survey-2018-11

Why? Because 60% of the pilots plan on leaving their company. That # has got to be around 85% at the regionals..

Good luck getting other pilot groups to strike after the ABX strike was deemed illegal...

MarkThyme
11-21-2018, 06:28 AM
https://amp.businessinsider.com/pilots-amazon-air-consider-quitting-survey-2018-11

Ford & Harrison isn't biting on your troll bait.


Industry Strnd
11-21-2018, 08:35 AM
Ford & Harrison isn't biting on your troll bait.



https://www.aircargonews.net/news/airline/single-view/news/us-cargo-pilots-reveal-dissatisfaction-in-latest-union-survey.html

MarkThyme
11-22-2018, 08:19 AM
https://www.aircargonews.net/news/airline/single-view/news/us-cargo-pilots-reveal-dissatisfaction-in-latest-union-survey.html

And...?

So...?

I know what the survey says. I'm in it. I'm one of those who is looking elsewhere for better opportunities.

Dissatisfaction with current conditions, when everybody is maintaining the status quo, is not a legitimate reason to strike. Half the pilots looking elsewhere for better opportunities is not an indication of a looming strike.

Are you trying to suggest that the members of 1224 are a bunch of pea-brained morons who would strike because they got a bad case of the sadz? You know as well as I do that not only would a judge declare such a strike illegal and order them back to work, but the union would be sued and end up paying a multi-million dollar judgment to the affected companies. It wouldn't be the first time that happened to a pilot union. So I really don't understand what the game is here, except maybe that you're hoping to get F&H to put on a clown show like they did last year, responding to APC forum whispers and demanding the union tell them about any upcoming strike plans.

The 2016 strike occurred due to specific, concrete violations of the status quo, and the company responded - perhaps more slowly than they could have, but they got the message. Those same conditions do not exist now. 2018 is nothing like 2016. The company isn't interested in doing anything that might look like a status quo violation.

Remember the months-long gripefest about not having KCM? Scuttlebutt is that everybody's favorite ABX president told everybody's favorite ABX CEO that the union would consider it a status quo violation to do KCM now. Once that was determined to be untrue, ABX had KCM practically overnight.

So to suggest that there might be a strike, based on a survey showing that a majority of 1224 members responding to the survey wish they were somewhere else, is just bonehead ridiculous. I really don't understand why you get off on it.

ACMItrash
11-22-2018, 09:11 AM
And...?

So...?

I know what the survey says. I'm in it. I'm one of those who is looking elsewhere for better opportunities.

Dissatisfaction with current conditions, when everybody is maintaining the status quo, is not a legitimate reason to strike. Half the pilots looking elsewhere for better opportunities is not an indication of a looming strike.

Are you trying to suggest that the members of 1224 are a bunch of pea-brained morons who would strike because they got a bad case of the sadz? You know as well as I do that not only would a judge declare such a strike illegal and order them back to work, but the union would be sued and end up paying a multi-million dollar judgment to the affected companies. It wouldn't be the first time that happened to a pilot union. So I really don't understand what the game is here, except maybe that you're hoping to get F&H to put on a clown show like they did last year, responding to APC forum whispers and demanding the union tell them about any upcoming strike plans.

The 2016 strike occurred due to specific, concrete violations of the status quo, and the company responded - perhaps more slowly than they could have, but they got the message. Those same conditions do not exist now. 2018 is nothing like 2016. The company isn't interested in doing anything that might look like a status quo violation.

Remember the months-long gripefest about not having KCM? Scuttlebutt is that everybody's favorite ABX president told everybody's favorite ABX CEO that the union would consider it a status quo violation to do KCM now. Once that was determined to be untrue, ABX had KCM practically overnight.

So to suggest that there might be a strike, based on a survey showing that a majority of 1224 members responding to the survey wish they were somewhere else, is just bonehead ridiculous. I really don't understand why you get off on it.

Lol you're definitely management or management wanna be with an answer like that. Worried amazon or dhl is reading and worried you're at risk. As much as the company violates the contract like they did to draw it the last strike it's only a matter of time before atlas or abx screw up. Who is to say the nmb won't release either pilot group too. Quit trying to bs the partners.

EndOfTimes
11-22-2018, 10:25 AM
MarkThyme is trying to make a point here. Things are terrible at ABX and he agrees. His point is that some of you are embellishing things a bit. Itís like the LAPD planting evidence on OJ. Why frame a guilty man? The reality is bad enough.

JonnyKnoxville
11-22-2018, 05:31 PM
Why? Because 60% of the pilots plan on leaving their company. That # has got to be around 85% at the regionals..

Good luck getting other pilot groups to strike after the ABX strike was deemed illegal...

ABX Air Pilots Win Resolution to Forced Overtime (http://aviationtribune.com/airlines/north-america/abx-air-pilots-win-resolution-forced-overtime/)

Umm...Deemed illegal by whom? ALPA and the ATI Pilots? Well, the judge on the ABX Strike case would disagree with them.

Fact: The union was right and as a result the union (the pilots) won. ALPA and ATI were wrong. So was ABX management and as a result, they had to pay out millions.

The strike was LEGAL.

MarkThyme
11-22-2018, 06:07 PM
Lol you're definitely management or management wanna be with an answer like that.

Yeah...whatever, because it's simply not possible that anybody outside of management could disagree with your view of the world, right? And surely, nobody in management has better things to do on Thanksgiving day than to read and respond to the loons in the APC forums.

You just continue living in your little fantasy world and believe what you need to believe to make your life work.

wjcandee
11-22-2018, 06:28 PM
The strike was LEGAL.

I hesitate to talk about an issue where beliefs are so deeply held, but just for what it's worth, your argument conflates the question of whether ABX properly handled the D6 days (which ultimately was settled in favor of the Union) with the question of whether a strike was a permissible ("legal") response to the Union's grievance over the carrier's handling of the D6 day issue.

The strike was enjoined because the Court found probable success on the merits of ABX's claim that a strike wasn't permitted under those circumstances, and indeed reasoned in its written decision that "illegal" strikes under the RLA should be enjoined, and then proceeded to enjoin the strike.

Lawyers, in the best traditions of creativity, hair-splitting, and thin-salami-slicing, have put forward various spins to the effect that the Court never actually found the strike to be illegal. I understand those spins, but the reality is...Meh.

Different entirely is how the D6 day issue ultimately was resolved, with some significant success for the union, although not terribly far off of where the Carrier was in the DC negotiations that immediately-preceded the strike, IIRC. But whatever. A success is a success.

aviatorhi
11-22-2018, 09:56 PM
I hesitate to talk about an issue where beliefs are so deeply held, but just for what it's worth, your argument conflates the question of whether ABX properly handled the D6 days (which ultimately was settled in favor of the Union) with the question of whether a strike was a permissible ("legal") response to the Union's grievance over the carrier's handling of the D6 day issue.

The strike was enjoined because the Court found probable success on the merits of ABX's claim that a strike wasn't permitted under those circumstances, and indeed reasoned in its written decision that "illegal" strikes under the RLA should be enjoined, and then proceeded to enjoin the strike.

Lawyers, in the best traditions of creativity, hair-splitting, and thin-salami-slicing, have put forward various spins to the effect that the Court never actually found the strike to be illegal. I understand those spins, but the reality is...Meh.

Different entirely is how the D6 day issue ultimately was resolved, with some significant success for the union, although not terribly far off of where the Carrier was in the DC negotiations that immediately-preceded the strike, IIRC. But whatever. A success is a success.

Woah woah woah... we can't let rationality interfere with the entertainment value I get out of the ABX threads.