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zippinbye
12-02-2018, 10:10 AM
Like the title says, this might fall into the "who cares" category, but we all know the potential pitfalls of checking the wrong box or making an omission or inaccurate submission on a FAA Medical app. So as trivial as it may be, why not bounce it off my peers?

As I work on my current FAA MedXpress application, it dawns on me that I have never been properly educated on how to complete Section 10 "Type of Airman Certificate (s) You Hold." For some time I have been checking the boxes for Airline Transport and Flight Engineer, since I have two different certificates and each has one of those respective titles on the front directly above the Certificate Number. But I have also been selecting "Commercial" for a few years (probably in error). But I do not have a separate plastic card with that nomenclature on the front, even though I have some level of Commercial privileges.

Certainly the FE Certificate is dusty and will never serve another purpose in my life, but listing it is an accurate answer to the question. Here's where things get fuzzy to me : on the back of my currently useful certificate, on the back side, under Ratings there's a heading for my Airline Transport Pilot privileges such as Airplane Multiengine Land and some type ratings. Below that is stated "Commercial Privileges, Airplane Single Engine Land.

Given the above info, I'm inclined to think that I check the box for Airline Transport and Flight Engineer, but not Commercial. Clearly, I have been granted Commercial privileges (or restricted to them) for SEL, but I do not think that constitutes a "Commercial Certificate."

So ... check the box for Commercial Certificate on a Medical App, or not? If not, do I just dismiss the inconsistency of having selected Commercial Certificate in the past, or do I try to explain myself in somehow? I'll appreciate any opinions I can get. Thanks in advance.


Denny Crane
12-02-2018, 10:32 AM
An ATP supersedes a commercial. I have always just put ATP and Flight Engineer.

When I got out of the military I had Commercial Privileges on the B-707/720. When I got my first type rating on my ATP, the Commercial Privileges were changed automatically to a type rating on my ATP. Never had the single engine stuff.

Denny

Name User
12-02-2018, 10:35 AM
Like the title says, this might fall into the "who cares" category, but we all know the potential pitfalls of checking the wrong box or making an omission or inaccurate submission on a FAA Medical app. So as trivial as it may be, why not bounce it off my peers?

As I work on my current FAA MedXpress application, it dawns on me that I have never been properly educated on how to complete Section 10 "Type of Airman Certificate (s) You Hold." For some time I have been checking the boxes for Airline Transport and Flight Engineer, since I have two different certificates and each has one of those respective titles on the front directly above the Certificate Number. But I have also been selecting "Commercial" for a few years (probably in error). But I do not have a separate plastic card with that nomenclature on the front, even though I have some level of Commercial privileges.

Certainly the FE Certificate is dusty and will never serve another purpose in my life, but listing it is an accurate answer to the question. Here's where things get fuzzy to me : on the back of my currently useful certificate, on the back side, under Ratings there's a heading for my Airline Transport Pilot privileges such as Airplane Multiengine Land and some type ratings. Below that is stated "Commercial Privileges, Airplane Single Engine Land.

Given the above info, I'm inclined to think that I check the box for Airline Transport and Flight Engineer, but not Commercial. Clearly, I have been granted Commercial privileges (or restricted to them) for SEL, but I do not think that constitutes a "Commercial Certificate."

So ... check the box for Commercial Certificate on a Medical App, or not? If not, do I just dismiss the inconsistency of having selected Commercial Certificate in the past, or do I try to explain myself in somehow? I'll appreciate any opinions I can get. Thanks in advance.

I noticed, one year, a question I had always been answering "no" to. I think it was a suspended drivers license. Back when I was 17 my license was suspended for a "trivial" moving violation (state law). I honestly never even thought about it when getting my medical, always checking no. For decades. I asked my AME a few years back, "don't rock the boat" was his answer. IMO, if what you have been doing hasn't brought up questions I would continue doing it. I check both as well.


CBreezy
12-02-2018, 12:16 PM
Like the title says, this might fall into the "who cares" category, but we all know the potential pitfalls of checking the wrong box or making an omission or inaccurate submission on a FAA Medical app. So as trivial as it may be, why not bounce it off my peers?

As I work on my current FAA MedXpress application, it dawns on me that I have never been properly educated on how to complete Section 10 "Type of Airman Certificate (s) You Hold." For some time I have been checking the boxes for Airline Transport and Flight Engineer, since I have two different certificates and each has one of those respective titles on the front directly above the Certificate Number. But I have also been selecting "Commercial" for a few years (probably in error). But I do not have a separate plastic card with that nomenclature on the front, even though I have some level of Commercial privileges.

Certainly the FE Certificate is dusty and will never serve another purpose in my life, but listing it is an accurate answer to the question. Here's where things get fuzzy to me : on the back of my currently useful certificate, on the back side, under Ratings there's a heading for my Airline Transport Pilot privileges such as Airplane Multiengine Land and some type ratings. Below that is stated "Commercial Privileges, Airplane Single Engine Land.

Given the above info, I'm inclined to think that I check the box for Airline Transport and Flight Engineer, but not Commercial. Clearly, I have been granted Commercial privileges (or restricted to them) for SEL, but I do not think that constitutes a "Commercial Certificate."

So ... check the box for Commercial Certificate on a Medical App, or not? If not, do I just dismiss the inconsistency of having selected Commercial Certificate in the past, or do I try to explain myself in somehow? I'll appreciate any opinions I can get. Thanks in advance.

You have a ATP-MEL and a CSEL. So, you do in fact have a commercial certificate. It is based on the privileges you are executing. If you get into a SEL, you no longer are in possession of a ATP for all intents and purposes.

PilotJ3
12-02-2018, 02:04 PM
An ATP supersedes a commercial. I have always just put ATP and Flight Engineer.

When I got out of the military I had Commercial Privileges on the B-707/720. When I got my first type rating on my ATP, the Commercial Privileges were changed automatically to a type rating on my ATP. Never had the single engine stuff.

Denny

For the civilian. If you had CPL ASEL and AMEL, it depends which checkride you did for the ATP.

If you only did ATP AMEL, you still have a CPL ASEL. The only way you can get rid of the ASEL commercial privileges is to get a ATP ASEL checkride.

badflaps
12-02-2018, 02:55 PM
You have a ATP-MEL and a CSEL. So, you do in fact have a commercial certificate. It is based on the privileges you are executing. If you get into a SEL, you no longer are in possession of a ATP for all intents and purposes.

How many A/C would that involve? ATP-S privileges?

StartngOvr
12-02-2018, 04:31 PM
One? Not to be a wise as$ but why would it be different?

I also agree with the other.s. You have both and ATP and a commercial certificate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

CBreezy
12-02-2018, 08:39 PM
How many A/C would that involve? ATP-S privileges?

I literally have no idea what you are asking.

ODB2
12-02-2018, 09:04 PM
I think he means is there any company paying pilots to fly regularly scheduled pax in a single engine airplane (and which ones), thus needing an ATP-SE. I don't know of any but I'm curious too.

badflaps
12-02-2018, 10:03 PM
I think he means is there any company paying pilots to fly regularly scheduled pax in a single engine airplane (and which ones), thus needing an ATP-SE. I don't know of any but I'm curious too.

I was thinking Pilatus, 208 or something similar to Surf Air. Thanks for translating my question.:D

Squallrider
12-02-2018, 10:15 PM
I was thinking Pilatus, 208 or something similar to Surf Air. Thanks for translating my question.:D

Not sure what boutique air qualifies as but potentially?

awax
12-02-2018, 10:29 PM
You have a ATP-MEL and a CSEL. So, you do in fact have a commercial certificate. It is based on the privileges you are executing. If you get into a SEL, you no longer are in possession of a ATP for all intents and purposes.

This is how I interpret it also, I don't have ATP-SEL privileges. So when I fly a SEL.....?

I indicate that I hold ATP, Commercial, FE on my medical apps.

CBreezy
12-03-2018, 04:29 AM
I think he means is there any company paying pilots to fly regularly scheduled pax in a single engine airplane (and which ones), thus needing an ATP-SE. I don't know of any but I'm curious too.

There are a few operators using Caravans but all operate under part 135 like the turboprop commuters of old. I don't think any require ATP. Some private operators can lower insurance rates if their pilot has a ATP-SE

zippinbye
12-03-2018, 09:19 AM
There are a few operators using Caravans but all operate under part 135 like the turboprop commuters of old. I don't think any require ATP. Some private operators can lower insurance rates if their pilot has a ATP-SE

Thanks for all the responses folks. No debating that I have both an ATP and a Commercial, but I was thinking Itís an ATP Certificate, but with priviliges reduced to Commercial in the case of SEL, hence not technically a Commercial ď Certificate.Ē Splitting hairs, I know. And I donít really care, aside from being truthful and accurate to the FAA. Iím going to the AME today (also a pilot); Iíll see what he thinks about claiming on the App.

rickair7777
12-03-2018, 09:23 AM
Thanks for all the responses folks. No debating that I have both an ATP and a Commercial, but I was thinking Itís an ATP Certificate, but with priviliges reduced to Commercial in the case of SEL, hence not technically a Commercial ď Certificate.Ē Splitting hairs, I know. And I donít really care, aside from being truthful and accurate to the FAA. Iím going to the AME today (also a pilot); Iíll see what he thinks about claiming on the App.

It is splitting hairs, and nobody will ever care either way. Rest easy.

If you want really lose sleep over the medical app there are ways to do that...


https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/pilot-health/116448-faa-looking-va-records-indictments.html

rickair7777
12-03-2018, 09:27 AM
I noticed, one year, a question I had always been answering "no" to. I think it was a suspended drivers license. Back when I was 17 my license was suspended for a "trivial" moving violation (state law). I honestly never even thought about it when getting my medical, always checking no. For decades. I asked my AME a few years back, "don't rock the boat" was his answer. IMO, if what you have been doing hasn't brought up questions I would continue doing it. I check both as well.

That worked in the old days.

Today the FAA is getting a bit more invasive about the medical app. Odds are your DL problem was so long ago that it never made into the digital cloud and thus cannot be easily discovered by an automated search. But that will not be case for criminal and medical issues in the future... it's going to be too easy for them to find discrepancies with data base cross-referencing. For the younger folks, I would get your house in order... you can probably make minor corrections with no penalty if you do it before THEY find it.

zippinbye
12-04-2018, 05:27 PM
FWIW; My AME says "check ATP and FE," but that it's no big deal if I check too few or too many boxes .... nobody will notice or compare to previous submissions. I'm going with his advice.

Thanks to all who weighed in on my OP!

JohnBurke
12-04-2018, 10:47 PM
For some time I have been checking the boxes for Airline Transport and Flight Engineer, since I have two different certificates and each has one of those respective titles on the front directly above the Certificate Number. But I have also been selecting "Commercial" for a few years (probably in error). But I do not have a separate plastic card with that nomenclature on the front, even though I have some level of Commercial privileges.

Certainly the FE Certificate is dusty and will never serve another purpose in my life, but listing it is an accurate answer to the question. Here's where things get fuzzy to me : on the back of my currently useful certificate, on the back side, under Ratings there's a heading for my Airline Transport Pilot privileges such as Airplane Multiengine Land and some type ratings. Below that is stated "Commercial Privileges, Airplane Single Engine Land.

Given the above info, I'm inclined to think that I check the box for Airline Transport and Flight Engineer, but not Commercial. Clearly, I have been granted Commercial privileges (or restricted to them) for SEL, but I do not think that constitutes a "Commercial Certificate."

So ... check the box for Commercial Certificate on a Medical App, or not? If not, do I just dismiss the inconsistency of having selected Commercial Certificate in the past, or do I try to explain myself in somehow? I'll appreciate any opinions I can get. Thanks in advance.

There's no need to cite your flight experience and background on every medical application, but if you ever lose your logbooks, those documents can be used to provide some official documentation of your experience, and to backbuild your record.

As for your pilot certificate, there is just one: a pilot certificate. There are levels of privilege. If you have only ATP privileges and nothing else, then you might just check ATP. If you have ATP Airplane Multi Engine Land, but Commercial, Single Engine Land, then you'd check ATP and Commercial, as you hold ATP privileges for one category and class, and commercial privileges for another.

You don't have an ATP Pilot Certificate and a Commercial Pilot certificate: there's just one certificate. You have ATP privileges, and may have only commercial privileges in some category and class aircraft.

If you hold ATP privileges in Airplane, Multi Engine Land, then you automatically hold commercial and private privileges in the same.

If you hold Commercial privileges only in Airplane, Single Engine Land, then you hold Commercial and private privileges...but not ATP privileges for Airplane Single Engine Land. You still have just one pilot certificate. You can check both boxes for the Medexpress application.

Whether you use your FE certificate is irrelevant.