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View Full Version : 737 vs 320 for New Hire


Pack
12-02-2018, 11:05 AM
Good afternoon everyone!

Iíll be in new hire class in about 2 months. I have couple of question for those who are already at AA. My end goal is to be based in DFW as quickly as possible regardless if I can hold a line or not. My base preference in order as new hire if they offer all would be LAX, MIA, LGA and PHL.

Which equipment would you recommend I bid for? 737 or 320?

Which equipment gives you a faster upgrade?

Which equipment gets me a line the fastest?

Those who have flown both airplanes which one do you prefer and why?

Any other information that you think is important for me to know or consider please do share.

Thanks!


Sliceback
12-02-2018, 12:26 PM
Good afternoon everyone!

Iíll be in new hire class in about 2 months. I have couple of question for those who are already at AA. My end goal is to be based in DFW as quickly as possible regardless if I can hold a line or not. My base preference in order as new hire if they offer all would be LAX, MIA, LGA and PHL.

Which equipment would you recommend I bid for? 737 or 320? Either job is at AA. The Airbus is a better job. THe 737 is a better performer. Why is the AB a better job? Quieter and more space.

Which equipment gives you a faster upgrade? Neither. What airplane you're on has nothing to do with when you can upgrade. You can upgrade whenever the opportunity comes to your seniority. A slight issue is you can't upgrade if you got a new equipment award in the previous six months. A lock-in is two years, reduced to 6 months for your *first* upgrade

Which equipment gets me a line the fastest? Probably the 190 in PHL. With different bases, with MIA and LGA having Domestic and International divisions, it might be almost impossible to predict what the 'best' decision would be for April or May of next year.

Those who have flown both airplanes which one do you prefer and why? Airbus. Quieter, spacious, and more comfortable. Both pay the same. If it's in your base of choice it doesn't matter what airplane it is.

Any other information that you think is important for me to know or consider please do share.

Thanks!

Filler....

EMBFlyer
12-02-2018, 12:39 PM
Be prepared for the onslaught of guys telling you how much the 737 sucks, yet they've never flown it.


flydc
12-02-2018, 01:23 PM
Iíve been here 2yrs on the 190. Looking at my seniority in each base/fleet, Iíd be anywhere from 10-30% more senior on the 737 in bases that offer both fleets. Legacy US 320 bases are super stagnant at the moment.

Al Czervik
12-02-2018, 01:44 PM
Be prepared for the onslaught of guys telling you how much the 737 sucks, yet they've never flown it.

Iíve flown it. It sucks.

Sliceback
12-02-2018, 02:54 PM
Be prepared for the onslaught of guys telling you how much the 737 sucks, yet they've never flown it.

I donít think it sucks. But the AB is a better job.
Have you flown both? Itís tough to compare if you havnít flown both. But the difference you see jumpseating is similar to the job difference so guys whoíve flown one but jumpseated enough on the other airplane see the difference.

The comparison has come up before. One, or maybe two, guys whoíve flown both said they prefer the 737. The majority of guys whoíve flown both prefer the AB.

Would I commute to fly, or avoid, either airplane? Absolutely not. Theyíre not that much different that you need to avoid one. If it works for you just bid it.

EMBFlyer
12-02-2018, 03:54 PM
I donít think it sucks. But the AB is a better job.
Have you flown both? Itís tough to compare if you havnít flown both. But the difference you see jumpseating is similar to the job difference so guys whoíve flown one but jumpseated enough on the other airplane see the difference.

The comparison has come up before. One, or maybe two, guys whoíve flown both said they prefer the 737. The majority of guys whoíve flown both prefer the AB.

Would I commute to fly, or avoid, either airplane? Absolutely not. Theyíre not that much different that you need to avoid one. If it works for you just bid it.

I have flown both.

viper548
12-02-2018, 04:00 PM
I would go A-320. We are getting more A320's than B737's in the next 2 years. DFW is growing, I think you'd get there faster on the Airbus.

450knotOffice
12-02-2018, 04:01 PM
I've flown both. I'll never fly the 737 again unless I'm forced onto it somehow.

aa73
12-02-2018, 04:23 PM
Bid the Bus for comfort
Bid the Boeing for character

good luck ;)

foumanchu
12-02-2018, 04:52 PM
Good afternoon everyone!

Iíll be in new hire class in about 2 months. I have couple of question for those who are already at AA. My end goal is to be based in DFW as quickly as possible regardless if I can hold a line or not. My base preference in order as new hire if they offer all would be LAX, MIA, LGA and PHL.

Which equipment would you recommend I bid for? 737 or 320?

Which equipment gives you a faster upgrade?

Which equipment gets me a line the fastest?

Those who have flown both airplanes which one do you prefer and why?

Any other information that you think is important for me to know or consider please do share.

Thanks!


I'll be a few months behind you, but my situation is the exact same. My end result is to be based in DFW whenever the time comes.

I have talked to several current guys and the consensus seems to go Airbus. However, I think (opinion only) that some of the 737 trips out of MIA might be a bit better than Airbus trips elsewhere. So, depending on the commute, MIA wouldn't be too bad until seniority/bid makes DFW an option.

Sliceback
12-02-2018, 05:26 PM
I have flown both.

And your preference, if everything else is the same, is?

Frip
12-02-2018, 06:13 PM
Bid the Bus for comfort
Bid the Boeing for character

good luck ;)


25 years sof herding DC-9's around...
Got plenty character
Ready for easy:)

Boogerface
12-02-2018, 06:29 PM
AB vs 737 debate #21,302 on this forum...


It really comes down to what you value more:


-If you value comfort, a quieter airplane, and/or a more automated airplane, then bid the Bus
-If you value quality of life, fewer redeyes, more seniority (resulting in getting a line sooner), better trips, lower rates of reassignments mid-trip, and flying a less automated airplane, then bid the 737


For reference, I fly the 737, I'm relatively junior system-wide, I'm based at home (non-commuter), I'm in the bottom 10% in base, and I hold a line with an average of 16+ days off per month. I have NOT flown the bus, but I have sat in dozens of bus jumpseats - the bus is more spacious and a bit quieter as others have attested, but I also come from over a decade of flying RJs, which are MUCH louder and more cramped than the 737. I'm happy where I am, and I don't plan on changing equipment until I get awarded widebody flying or upgrade.

RhinoBallAuto
12-02-2018, 06:56 PM
. So, depending on the commute, MIA wouldn't be too bad until seniority/bid makes DFW an option.

While I don't have first hand experience, I have heard the DFW/MIA commute is probably one of the tougher ones... YMMV

DOGIII
12-02-2018, 07:15 PM
Iíve been here 2yrs on the 190. Looking at my seniority in each base/fleet, Iíd be anywhere from 10-30% more senior on the 737 in bases that offer both fleets. Legacy US 320 bases are super stagnant at the moment.



How much more senior is the bus than the 73 in lga?

Thanks

Tobes
12-03-2018, 01:26 AM
How much more senior is the bus than the 73 in lga?

Thanks

Junior 320 FO in LGA is 15005....most junior 737 is 14997......so really a wash for the "newhire placement" bases....

EMBFlyer
12-03-2018, 04:59 AM
And your preference, if everything else is the same, is?

737. I enjoy the way it flies. It's very simple to operate. Like aa73, I still enjoy flying airplanes.

Currently, my seniority is much better on the 737 and I think the flying is better.

DOGIII
12-03-2018, 05:36 AM
Junior 320 FO in LGA is 15005....most junior 737 is 14997......so really a wash for the "newhire placement" bases....



Thanks. Any discernable difference in the trips between the two in lga?

Sliceback
12-03-2018, 06:23 AM
Thanks. Any discernable difference in the trips between the two in lga?

I just looked at the September PBS awards. I choose September to get away from holiday bidding. I looked at guys 300, 500, and 1,000 from the bottom. It looks like the current guys had slightly faster bidding quality advancement on the 737.

There's a lot of movement so trying to forecast what it will be like in 6 months is tough.

Sliceback
12-03-2018, 06:35 AM
Obviously guys are very interested in trying to make the best decision today for what the world will be like 3-4 months after they get hired. If someone wants LAX/LGA/MIA/PHL, and they're not super junior in their class, they can get the base. PHX/DCA/UDC/BOS awards for March went to guys hired in September 2018. Six months, including about three months in training and IOE. So they commuted for three months to reserve before moving to the next best base.

The only options not available to a six month LOS guy right now are ORD/DFW/CLT. The junior award for a March transfer to DFW on the Airbus went to a guy hired 11 months earlier(April 2018). The junior 737 guy took 14 months(Jan 2018 new hire).

Trying to make the 'perfect' decision for a manning decision 11-14 months after you got hired is impossible. And then trying to look 6-12 months later to see what lines you'd be able to hold? We can view what's happening today, and make a judgement assuming the future is the same as it is today, but there's zero confidence in that happening.

A fleet planning chart I just looked at (hopefully still current) shows AG and 737 deliveries in 2019-2021.

If you want to go to a specific base that doesn't have one fleet type I'd try to get the airplane that is based there. For BOS and ORD that's the 737. CLT, PHL and PHX is the 320.

If you think you're going to commute try to commute on line. Next try to commute on AB's(two jump seats). Four AB's flights (8 jump seats) might be better than 6 737 flights (6 jump seats).

And once you're on property you'll have several months to watch how your relative seniority, and the opportunities that develop as retirements accelerate and flying changes slightly in bases, which gives you the chance to switch to the other n/b after 9-15 months (plus up to 3 months lag for the actual award).

I tell guys to expect the first two years to perhaps be a grind if you're trying to get to X base. Right now that's ORD with CLT and DFW as the next toughest at just around a year, or slightly longer. Retirement increases in CLT (86/92 next two years) and DFW (112/156) specifically might generate more opportunities so the lag might shorten.

ORDinary
12-03-2018, 07:30 AM
Obviously guys are very interested in trying to make the best decision today for what the world will be like 3-4 months after they get hired. If someone wants LAX/LGA/MIA/PHL, and they're not super junior in their class, they can get the base. PHX/DCA/UDC/BOS awards for March went to guys hired in September 2018. Six months, including about three months in training and IOE. So they commuted for three months to reserve before moving to the next best base.

The only options not available to a six month LOS guy right now are ORD/DFW/CLT. The junior award for a March transfer to DFW on the Airbus went to a guy hired 11 months earlier(April 2018). The junior 737 guy took 14 months(Jan 2018 new hire).

Trying to make the 'perfect' decision for a manning decision 11-14 months after you got hired is impossible. And then trying to look 6-12 months later to see what lines you'd be able to hold? We can view what's happening today, and make a judgement assuming the future is the same as it is today, but there's zero confidence in that happening.

A fleet planning chart I just looked at (hopefully still current) shows AG and 737 deliveries in 2019-2021.

If you want to go to a specific base that doesn't have one fleet type I'd try to get the airplane that is based there. For BOS and ORD that's the 737. CLT, PHL and PHX is the 320.

If you think you're going to commute try to commute on line. Next try to commute on AB's(two jump seats). Four AB's flights (8 jump seats) might be better than 6 737 flights (6 jump seats).

And once you're on property you'll have several months to watch how your relative seniority, and the opportunities that develop as retirements accelerate and flying changes slightly in bases, which gives you the chance to switch to the other n/b after 9-15 months (plus up to 3 months lag for the actual award).

I tell guys to expect the first two years to perhaps be a grind if you're trying to get to X base. Right now that's ORD with CLT and DFW as the next toughest at just around a year, or slightly longer. Retirement increases in CLT (86/92 next two years) and DFW (112/156) specifically might generate more opportunities so the lag might shorten.

It's hard to imagine ORD being less than 2-2.5 years. First it shrunk, then STL closed, and now the 787 Asia flying went away and the company says they won't displace from it, they'll just let attrition/retirements fix the temporary overstaffing. Surely that will trickle down to 737 FOs looking to move up and stagnate it for longer. Between that and the ORD CAs being a little younger as a whole, I wouldn't worry about limiting yourself to the 737 to wait for ORD, it's going to be a while.

RhinoBallAuto
12-03-2018, 07:37 AM
Here's how I simplify it for my buds who ask me a strategy to get into a more senior base, which is a variation on Slice's comment:
On draft day, there's no reason to sweat the airplane you choose. Your focus should be on selecting a base that makes for the most manageable commute and most manageable reserve duty. Your initial seat lock will expire well before your seniority can get you into Base X, so if you find that the Bus gets you to DFW more quickly than the 73 (or vice versa), then it's no big deal.

I even recommend to avoid the trap which is, "I want CLT, therefore I must get the Bus" or (...ORD...737). Since it will take 12 months or more, you can bid for training on the new equipment when you crack into Base X.

Freed advice....worth what you paid for.

viper548
12-03-2018, 07:45 AM
Here's how I simplify it for my buds who ask me a strategy to get into a more senior base, which is a variation on Slice's comment:
On draft day, there's no reason to sweat the airplane you choose. Your focus should be on selecting a base that makes for the most manageable commute and most manageable reserve duty. Your initial seat lock will expire well before your seniority can get you into Base X, so if you find that the Bus gets you to DFW more quickly than the 73 (or vice versa), then it's no big deal.

I even recommend to avoid the trap which is, "I want CLT, therefore I must get the Bus" or (...ORD...737). Since it will take 12 months or more, you can bid for training on the new equipment when you crack into Base X.

Freed advice....worth what you paid for.




The problem with that is a 737 to 320 (or vice versa) bid will often get withheld for a year. If you want a base that only has one of the narrowbodies, you're better off being on the equipment they have there. The OP is specifically talking about DFW, so it doesn't matter much to him which he gets, they're both around a year for DFW. The last year or two we had more 737 deliveries, but over the next 2 years we will have more AB deliveries, for that I'd recommend the 320.

One more thing to note, if you get the 320 and are trying to figure out the easiest commute until you get DFW I would HIGHLY recommend not bidding PHL. We are currently running a bid for displacements into E-190 captain. PHL based pilots coming off probation are at risk for this. It is NOT limited to E-190 FOs.

mainlineAF
12-03-2018, 08:15 AM
Thanks. Any discernable difference in the trips between the two in lga?



Yep. The 73 trips is LGA are garbage. Lots of non-commutable early departures/late arrivals and plenty of EWR.

The bus has a lot more commutable trips and one leg out to the west coast type trips.

Sliceback
12-03-2018, 09:22 AM
Yep. The 73 trips is LGA are garbage. Lots of non-commutable early departures/late arrivals and plenty of EWR.

The bus has a lot more commutable trips and one leg out to the west coast type trips.

September bid for guys 300, 500, and 1,000 from the bottom appeared to favor bidding the 737. Except some of that was EWR flying. EWR is tougher for a commuter.

And those AB guys had none commutable front and back trips. To have some seniority to avoid that looks like it comes to the 737 slightly sooner and they'd need to be approx. 1,000 more senior at which point the only bases that aren't available right now are ORD and CLT.

sherpster
12-03-2018, 09:34 AM
when does 3xp update again? I ask because as a guy on property about 1 year, the seniority difference between 737 and 320 LGA is minimal. I also notice there are less EWR trips on the 320 plus "I think" there is some growth planned for 320 LGA.

216 FO slots projected in May 2019 on the 737 v 206 on the 320.
216 is about what the 737 LGA had last spring but the 320 had sub 190 if my memory serves me correctly. I have been watching it because ORD looks like a pipe dream for now and I have decided LGA is the place for me and I need to decide 737 v 320 (currently on 737).

Covfefe
12-03-2018, 10:07 AM
If you want ORD, go [stay on] 737.

sherpster
12-03-2018, 10:21 AM
If you want ORD, go [stay on] 737.

Commuter either way. upper 1/3 in lga or bottom guy pulling short call at ord?

Sliceback
12-03-2018, 10:27 AM
when does 3xp update again? I ask because as a guy on property about 1 year, the seniority difference between 737 and 320 LGA is minimal. I also notice there are less EWR trips on the 320 plus "I think" there is some growth planned for 320 LGA.

216 FO slots projected in May 2019 on the 737 v 206 on the 320.
216 is about what the 737 LGA had last spring but the 320 had sub 190 if my memory serves me correctly. I have been watching it because ORD looks like a pipe dream for now and I have decided LGA is the place for me and I need to decide 737 v 320 (currently on 737).

Stay on the 737. Junior ORD awards are about 780 numbers senior to the guy who just hit his first year anniversary. If that rate holds constant he'd be able to hold ORD in ten months or roughly January 2020.

Sometimes the door opens and guys are able to go through the door. If you incur a 320 lock-in you'd be stuck for the next 2 years. The next opportunity for switching to the AB is the June (?) bid run. You could be incurring an 18 month delay (all +/- estimates) if you switch to the AB.

Sliceback
12-03-2018, 10:30 AM
Commuter either way. upper 1/3 in lga or bottom guy pulling short call at ord?

Even ORD is a commute? That's a different equation. Which is a better deal for you? Holding a line, and making more money, vs sitting SC when both are commutes is a different answer for different people.

PRS Guitars
12-03-2018, 10:34 AM
when does 3xp update again?

The company 3XP (on aapilots) usually updates within a week after the Final Vacancy Award. So probably this week. Just realize that that product includes all pilots, even inactive, so itís not as accurate. The APA 3XP just updates after each monthly schedule bid I believe.

wiz5422
12-03-2018, 10:37 AM
Yep. The 73 trips is LGA are garbage. Lots of non-commutable early departures/late arrivals and plenty of EWR.

The bus has a lot more commutable trips and one leg out to the west coast type trips.


How about LAX trips?

jcountry
12-03-2018, 11:04 AM
Iíve flown it. It sucks.

Hahaha!

Burn!!

dwightkschrute
12-03-2018, 11:38 AM
I wanted the bus so bad in training as CLT only has the bus as an option as of now. The person 1 number senior to me in class got the last bus slot. I was sick to my stomach. I did not want the 737. Turns out it was the best thing to happen. All things being equal, give me the bus but I was able to move to a domicile that made commuting and QOL much easier (being DCA based now) than it would if I chose to stick with the bus.

So for the first 12-24 months of your AA career, do you value QOL or airplane type more? That's not a rhetorical question as everyone has a different answer.

airlinegypsy
12-03-2018, 12:41 PM
How about LAX trips?



If you like flying red eyes, youíll love LAX!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mainlineAF
12-03-2018, 12:46 PM
How about LAX trips?



No clue. I only really look at LGA.

RhinoBallAuto
12-03-2018, 08:12 PM
If you like flying red eyes, youíll love LAX!


....or put another way, trips that are only commutable on the front side!!

Sliceback
12-04-2018, 04:46 AM
Some commuters tend to bid all nighters vs the early/late long two days. Those touch four days with commuting vs the three day impact of all nighters. All nighters have a smaller impact on your time at home.

So when someone talks about how quickly someone is holding a line the type of line matters. In LGA a couple of years ago the junior line holders were holding all nighters. Which was fine for some commuters. I spoke with a former FO that had upgraded. Mid pack Captain now. He actually bids all nighters higher than most of his peers - "after years of international flying an all nighter is no big deal" and I get a lot of the days off that I want."

R57 relay
12-04-2018, 06:51 AM
Although I now prefer the Bus to the 737, Iím glad for the time I spent on the 737 and all the various aircraft Iíve flown here. New hires need to remember that even if the aircraft/base you get isnít the one you want, itís going to be very temporary.

While going through recurrent last month an instructor gave us old guys something to think about. He said all of you that have less than 5 years to go, raise your hand. There were quite a few. He said ďJust think, if youíre pass riding a year or two after your retirement, the captain on your flight might not be on the property right now.Ē

I was the baby of my class at Piedmont, so wouldnít have a choice. I wanted a F-28 F/O slot anywhere so I wouldnít have to go to Piedmontís infamous 727 F/E school. Of course I was assigned 727 F/E and it was the hardest Iíve ever worked in a school. But it was a great education and Iím so glad I had the experience.

Welcome to all our new guys, and enjoy the ride.

Sliceback
12-04-2018, 07:02 AM
R57 - here's another statistic - in ten years, or five years after a guy with five years to go retires, 81% of the current Captains will have retired.

There will be a tremendous amount of turnover which is great for the guys getting hired.

R57 relay
12-04-2018, 07:17 AM
R57 - here's another statistic - in ten years, or five years after a guy with five years to go retires, 81% of the current Captains will have retired.

There will be a tremendous amount of turnover which is great for the guys getting hired.

Amazing. And with 32 years Iím sitting at about 50% of lineholders in CLT on the little Bus Capt.:rolleyes: Glad for you young guys though!

aa73
12-04-2018, 07:18 AM
Although I now prefer the Bus to the 737, Iím glad for the time I spent on the 737 and all the various aircraft Iíve flown here. New hires need to remember that even if the aircraft/base you get isnít the one you want, itís going to be very temporary.

While going through recurrent last month an instructor gave us old guys something to think about. He said all of you that have less than 5 years to go, raise your hand. There were quite a few. He said ďJust think, if youíre pass riding a year or two after your retirement, the captain on your flight might not be on the property right now.Ē

I was the baby of my class at Piedmont, so wouldnít have a choice. I wanted a F-28 F/O slot anywhere so I wouldnít have to go to Piedmontís infamous 727 F/E school. Of course I was assigned 727 F/E and it was the hardest Iíve ever worked in a school. But it was a great education and Iím so glad I had the experience.

Welcome to all our new guys, and enjoy the ride.

+1.... well said.

My situation was almost exactly the same as yours... Most junior guy in my class. Unfortunately (fortunately now!) my entire class was 727 F/E. Looking back now Iím super grateful I got to go through that course and experience the 3 Holer even though I never got to upgrade to the right seat in it.

737 is missing a lot of creature comforts and gee whiz stuff that the Bus has. But I wouldnít trade a single hour of that for anything else... except possibly Super 80 time which was even more fun flying than the 737!

Iím sure Iíll end up flying a Bus some day in my future and believe it or not, despite all the knocking I do over it Iím actually looking forward to the experience. Guess I will have to come up with some other material at that point :D

R57 relay
12-04-2018, 07:36 AM
+1.... well said.

My situation was almost exactly the same as yours... Most junior guy in my class. Unfortunately (fortunately now!) my entire class was 727 F/E. Looking back now Iím super grateful I got to go through that course and experience the 3 Holer even though I never got to upgrade to the right seat in it.

737 is missing a lot of creature comforts and gee whiz stuff that the Bus has. But I wouldnít trade a single hour of that for anything else... except possibly Super 80 time which was even more fun flying than the 737!

Iím sure Iíll end up flying a Bus some day in my future and believe it or not, despite all the knocking I do over it Iím actually looking forward to the experience. Guess I will have to come up with some other material at that point :D

I was a Boeing guy through and through when I went to the Bus. Going from the 75/76 to the A321 SS model(Super Slug) was a shock. But after a few months I started to think ďThis thing is actually kinda comfortable, has a better EFIS presentation and ergonomics.Ē It has a great smooth ride detection system-itís alway 500í above recommended max!

I really liked the basic 737-200s. The trim switches were so worn that you could just kinda roll your thumb over them and have slow trim. Probably wouldnít want to spend a long day in it now.

I wish Iíd bid F/O on the 727, but I went for seniority. I flew it two legs when the captains said ďGet up there boy, letís see what you can do.Ē Different world. Was sitting in the left seat over DEN hand flying it one day (so the captain could eat his lunch on my table) when #3 threw a stator. Kept running all the way to LAX.

450knotOffice
12-04-2018, 09:58 AM
Great stories, guys! 😊

JP, you will be assimilated! Resistance is futile! Lol!

R57, you have a way with words, man. I always like your posts.

QuagmireGiggity
12-04-2018, 10:07 AM
While I don't have first hand experience, I have heard the DFW/MIA commute is probably one of the tougher ones... YMMV
Not any more. That was pre airbus/ pre Jumpseat reservation days. It's an easy commute now. Airbus= mo jumpseats.

QuagmireGiggity
12-04-2018, 10:19 AM
What was more junior in DFW two years ago (bus vs. 737) flip flopped. What is more junior in the future may or may not be the way it is today. It's not like a regional where there's a fairly clear line drawn as people move up. Something to consider.. US group is a bit older. More retirements coming on the bus.

The bus is not better just because of "creature comforts".. It's simply an easier to understand airplane.

R57 relay
12-04-2018, 10:46 AM
Great stories, guys! 😊

JP, you will be assimilated! Resistance is futile! Lol!

R57, you have a way with words, man. I always like your posts.


Thanks! Good to see folks still enjoying aircraft now and then.

wiz5422
12-04-2018, 11:50 AM
Not any more. That was pre airbus/ pre Jumpseat reservation days. It's an easy commute now. Airbus= mo jumpseats.

So what is the easiest commute out of DFW for a new hire? LAX, NYC, or MIA?

450knotOffice
12-04-2018, 12:13 PM
So what is the easiest commute out of DFW for a new hire? LAX, NYC, or MIA?

LAX probably

Varks
12-04-2018, 12:16 PM
F100. By a long shot my favorite plane. Must have been designed by a pilot. Young/new Captains when I flew it. I went to 757/767 after that. What an antiquated let down.

I am waiting for an Airbus base in ORD. Unfortunately it may never come and when it does it will be wicked senior.

R57 relay
12-04-2018, 01:03 PM
F100. By a long shot my favorite plane. Must have been designed by a pilot. Young/new Captains when I flew it. I went to 757/767 after that. What an antiquated let down.

I am waiting for an Airbus base in ORD. Unfortunately it may never come and when it does it will be wicked senior.

Did you fly the F100 at AA? I flew it at US it was my least favorite jet aircraft. Hot, loud and unreliable. It was a nice hand flying airplane and good cockpit layout and auto flight system. Iíd heard AAís were better than ours.

bababouey
12-04-2018, 01:09 PM
Unless you want Boston or Chicago eventually, bid the bus, it opens up every possible base. I know plenty of guys who refuse to bid back to the 73, but only a few who despise the bus, good luck.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

QuagmireGiggity
12-04-2018, 02:01 PM
So what is the easiest commute out of DFW for a new hire? LAX, NYC, or MIA?

Miami. Not sure about loads and stuff to LA but I sat Long Call commuting to MIA and had zero issues. Got to where I didn't even reserve a seat until a couple days out sometimes but it can get tight if you wait until the day of/before to reserve a seat. ( A lot of no shows, still always made it on) I did both DFW - LGA and Miami. LGA is a lot longer flight and harder/expensive commute in general. A couple years ago it was all 737 which = one jumpseat. And you're in it a lot. Also Miami has the widebodies during the day.

LAX just looks like a nightmare in general with the schedules and covering those bases. I can't remember which airplane covers all three bases.. anyone?
LGA you'll get stuck with an occasional 0400 show at Newark. Well where is your crash pad? ... New York side of course. You could take the mysterious Flight attendant bus that I hear leaves at 02:30 (Sleepy yet? Yes that's a midnight thirty wake up for your central time body) or go over the night before like a safe sane person and get yourself a Hotel.. total bill? $150 ish.. That's on top of your crash pad and ubers back and forth to JFK-LGA. In other words it got expensive. Even though the Newark deals are kinda rare you will get them on the 73 if you spend a few months there.

EMBFlyer
12-04-2018, 03:32 PM
LAX just looks like a nightmare in general with the schedules and covering those bases. I can't remember which airplane covers all three bases.. anyone?

The 737 has typically been the airplane covering all three airports in LAX (plus SAN, but that has a completely different set of rules). Although, someone did report recently they saw an Airbus trip out of ONT. Don't know if it was an anomaly or what.

sherpster
12-04-2018, 03:39 PM
That whole lga-jfk-ewr thing chaps my butt. I knew 2 cpts who had 2 crashpads, 1 on each side. Total joke we get no reimbursement for that. Nyc will always be super junior because of that crap.

aa73
12-04-2018, 05:57 PM
Back in the day when I was the system wide plug and on eternal short call reserve on the -80 in LGA...my pad was just across the street from the USAir terminal. Lo and behold I’d get assigned EWR trips more often than not. After doing the mid town bag drag while changing 3 buses and two trains, I’d had enough. The next EWR trip I got assigned, I walked to the USAir terminal and hitched a JS ride from LGA-BOS, then promptly walked to the Continental terminal and hitched a ride on them from BOS-EWR. Total travel time, 3hrs... and I sat in First for free on both flights.

Never been more relaxed on a cross town commute :D

symbian simian
12-04-2018, 06:58 PM
F100. By a long shot my favorite plane. Must have been designed by a pilot. Young/new Captains when I flew it. I went to 757/767 after that. What an antiquated let down.

I am waiting for an Airbus base in ORD. Unfortunately it may never come and when it does it will be wicked senior.

Flew the prop version (F50) for a few years, and flew with the son of their test pilot. Fokker took all of the old F28/F27, threw it out and designed the Fokker prop/jet-liner cockpit (the plan was to keep the cockpit the same for both prop and jet). They let the pilots decide how the cockpit should work. IMO the best designed cockpit I will ever be on, and it definitely made up for the fact that it flew like a garbage truck with flat tires. The F50 had full fadec engines on a turboprop in 1985. No prop levers, just an engine rating panel and power levers with a detent. Annunciator panel and alerting system better than A320.

E175 Driver
12-05-2018, 06:44 AM
How easy is to get the E190 as a new hire?
Thanks.

wiz5422
12-05-2018, 06:50 AM
Is there really any base you can get that won't require getting a crash pad? Or which one can you hold long call fastest and or a line?

QuagmireGiggity
12-05-2018, 06:57 AM
Back in the day when I was the system wide plug and on eternal short call reserve on the -80 in LGA...my pad was just across the street from the USAir terminal. Lo and behold Iíd get assigned EWR trips more often than not. After doing the mid town bag drag while changing 3 buses and two trains, Iíd had enough. The next EWR trip I got assigned, I walked to the USAir terminal and hitched a JS ride from LGA-BOS, then promptly walked to the Continental terminal and hitched a ride on them from BOS-EWR. Total travel time, 3hrs... and I sat in First for free on both flights.

Never been more relaxed on a cross town commute :D
Never thought of that.. Hilarious.

flydc
12-05-2018, 07:07 AM
Is there really any base you can get that won't require getting a crash pad? Or which one can you hold long call fastest and or a line?

PHL E190. Youíll be off reserve pretty quick. Cheap airport hotels will allow you to avoid crashpads. Once you hold a line, there are lots of commutable trips.

viper548
12-05-2018, 07:30 AM
PHL E190. Youíll be off reserve pretty quick. Cheap airport hotels will allow you to avoid crashpads. Once you hold a line, there are lots of commutable trips.




In PHX long call reserve goes junior. Hotels are cheap, except while spring training is going on. PHX hasn't been an option for new hires in a while but you'd be able to transfer there within a few months. PHX doesn't have the 737.

Climb510
12-05-2018, 10:06 AM
How easy is to get the E190 as a new hire?
Thanks.

It all depends on where your seniority falls in your class. Some classes, the 190 goes senior. Others, it goes junior.

PRS Guitars
12-05-2018, 11:33 AM
One more thing to note, if you get the 320 and are trying to figure out the easiest commute until you get DFW I would HIGHLY recommend not bidding PHL. We are currently running a bid for displacements into E-190 captain. PHL based pilots coming off probation are at risk for this. It is NOT limited to E-190 FOs.

I thought the same thing (forced 190 upgrade was not limited to 190 FOís). The award came out yesterday and in fact every forced upgrade was a 190 FO, which I think is BS, but I havenít read that section of the contract.

TankerDriver
12-05-2018, 11:45 AM
How's SC life on the 190 if you live in-base?

E175 Driver
12-05-2018, 01:26 PM
It all depends on where your seniority falls in your class. Some classes, the 190 goes senior. Others, it goes junior.

Thanks! Cant wait!!

airlinegypsy
12-05-2018, 02:35 PM
I thought the same thing (forced 190 upgrade was not limited to 190 FOís). The award came out yesterday and in fact every forced upgrade was a 190 FO, which I think is BS, but I havenít read that section of the contract.



The re proffer said that if there werenít enough bidders they would start assigning the most junior qualified pilots in PHL. Iím guessing they didnít want to displace someone from another base and have to deal with all that entails.


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PRS Guitars
12-05-2018, 03:34 PM
The re proffer said that if there weren’t enough bidders they would start assigning the most junior qualified pilots in PHL. I’m guessing they didn’t want to displace someone from another base and have to deal with all that entails.


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I agree, most jr pilots in PHL, but that would include A320 pilots. Maybe there aren’t any jr enough. I’ll check.

Edit:

Just checked, yup they took the most jr in base which were all 190. So I was wrong in my earlier post, consider it retracted. I made an assumption, because I’m pretty out of touch with PHL seniority these days. It’s a lot more sr than I thought for 320 FO.

TankerDriver
12-05-2018, 04:23 PM
That may be changing. I know someone who got LGA 320 in an Oct indoc who is moving to PHL about a month after he's done with training. It will be quite possible for there to be 190 FO's more senior to him.

B757200ER
12-06-2018, 07:13 AM
Except some of that was EWR flying. EWR is tougher for a commuter.

Don't forget that FedEx has flights into EWR, including nonstop 767s from LAX. I used them once or twice, works great, bus connection to terminal.

Marlin
12-06-2018, 07:21 AM
Iíve flown both. Airbus ,if given the choice, everything else being equal. As mentioned, quieter, more spacious , more comfortable for a long day at the office .

B757200ER
12-06-2018, 07:22 AM
Back in the day when I was reserve on the -80 in LGA...my pad was just across the street from the US-lessAir terminal. I’d get assigned EWR trips more often than not. After doing the mid town bag drag while changing 3 buses and two trains, I’d had enough. The next EWR trip I got assigned, I walked to the USAir terminal and hitched a JS ride from LGA-BOS, then promptly walked to the Continental terminal and hitched a ride on them from BOS-EWR. Total travel time, 3hrs

There's a better way, CA Drag-yr-Bag.

Tried Uber from my pad in East Elmhurst near LGA to LIRR Woodside Station, 1.9 miles, $6.25, then catch the first WB train to Penn Station, $4.50(no stops), change to NJT train at station, $9 to EWR airport, 2 stops, Airtrain to terminals (slowest part of journey), 1+45...;) Late sign-ins were best, of course. Train service less on late nights and weekends.

sherpster
12-06-2018, 11:13 AM
There's a better way, CA Drag-yr-Bag.

Tried Uber from my pad in East Elmhurst near LGA to LIRR Woodside Station, 1.9 miles, $6.25, then catch the first WB train to Penn Station, $4.50(no stops), change to NJT train at station, $9 to EWR airport, 2 stops, Airtrain to terminals (slowest part of journey), 1+45...;) Late sign-ins were best, of course. Train service less on late nights and weekends.

I love the advice but it is sad you gotta spend 2 hours/$20 and get no reimbursement from the company. What if the company just makes the entire eastern seaboard a base? Or split them up into 2 bases. Miami-PBI-FLL-DCA-IAD-BWI-CLT and PHL-EWR-LGA-JFK-BOS. Where does it end? Maybe the entire US is one damn base. Better have an east coast crashpad, west coast crashpad, and mid continent crashpad. Probably should delete this post before the company gets any ideas.

PRS Guitars
12-06-2018, 11:44 AM
I love the advice but it is sad you gotta spend 2 hours/$20 and get no reimbursement from the company. What if the company just makes the entire eastern seaboard a base? Or split them up into 2 bases. Miami-PBI-FLL-DCA-IAD-BWI-CLT and PHL-EWR-LGA-JFK-BOS. Where does it end? Maybe the entire US is one damn base. Better have an east coast crashpad, west coast crashpad, and mid continent crashpad. Probably should delete this post before the company gets any ideas.

I agree, itís unbelievable...and unacceptable. Needs to be changed in the next contract.

aa73
12-06-2018, 12:56 PM
UAL pays ďadd payĒ for any trips that originate from other than the base airport. So if say a EWR based pilot has a trip originating in LGA, he/she gets extra pay. Same for an IAD based pilot going to DCA or BWI. I think JetBlue does the same, so does Delta. Heck everyone does it except us.

sherpster
12-06-2018, 01:22 PM
UAL pays ďadd payĒ for any trips that originate from other than the base airport. So if say a EWR based pilot has a trip originating in LGA, he/she gets extra pay. Same for an IAD based pilot going to DCA or BWI. I think JetBlue does the same, so does Delta. Heck everyone does it except us.

I was at ual briefly but they also expense the $100 uber ride

sherpster
12-07-2018, 03:02 AM
I was at ual briefly but they also expense the $100 uber ride

I remembered wrong. Only expensed if taking off ewr and landing lga. It was just add pay

FastDEW
12-14-2018, 05:26 AM
Go for QOL and commute ease. Do not worry about the type you fly in terms of comfort. Both are great to fly - just different. The Bus is comfortable and quiet. The 73 climbs better and with a larger wing it seems to get on top of WX where the Bus has to slog through sometimes. Especially on a heavy coast to coast. But in the end, do you really care what you are driving? I don't, I just want the QOL, ease of commute, in base as quickly as possible and a deposit that doesn't bounce. Focus there - do not worry about the office you are working in so much.

I am on the 777 now and love it. But mostly because I just like the long haul trips because I get more days off.

QuagmireGiggity
12-14-2018, 05:50 AM
I love the advice but it is sad you gotta spend 2 hours/$20 and get no reimbursement from the company. What if the company just makes the entire eastern seaboard a base? Or split them up into 2 bases. Miami-PBI-FLL-DCA-IAD-BWI-CLT and PHL-EWR-LGA-JFK-BOS. Where does it end? Maybe the entire US is one damn base. Better have an east coast crashpad, west coast crashpad, and mid continent crashpad. Probably should delete this post before the company gets any ideas.

I wish it was only $20. Usually $30 just to go LGA-JFK and back.

I spent $150 for aeroporter and hotel for 0400 shows at Newark. (plus food) I tried staying in that EWR crew room one night it's horrible. There are slightly cheaper ways. I prefer easy and rested.

sherpster
12-14-2018, 06:01 AM
I wish it was only $20. Usually $30 just to go LGA-JFK and back.

I spent $150 for aeroporter and hotel for 0400 shows at Newark. (plus food) I tried staying in that EWR crew room one night it's horrible. There are slightly cheaper ways. I prefer easy and rested.

Thats the other kick in the nuts. The crew rooms at LGA and EWR are sorely lacking. JFK is OK. Email your rep, I did

SilverandSore
12-14-2018, 06:02 AM
I wish it was only $20. Usually $30 just to go LGA-JFK and back.

I spent $150 for aeroporter and hotel for 0400 shows at Newark. (plus food) I tried staying in that EWR crew room one night it's horrible. There are slightly cheaper ways. I prefer easy and rested.

Anyone use the 3:15am FA shuttle from LGA to EWR?

QuagmireGiggity
12-14-2018, 08:35 AM
Anyone use the 3:15am FA shuttle from LGA to EWR?
Never used it. I heard it was 02:30 but either way it's just too dam early. Most of us Eaglets commute from DFW or ORD so it's like a 12:30 AM wake up for our body to make that van. It's either basically stay up all night and be exhausted or go over the night before and get a hotel. The other option which is almost the same price is take an Uber direct that morning but is still around $150. If you're assigned one of those you will have plenty of time the night before to get over there. They do have recliners in the EWR crew room but people are coming and going all night and the recliners are hard wood arm rest. Extremely uncomfortable.

meyers9163
12-14-2018, 02:31 PM
You all make enough to not be sleeping in ops. Thatís absolutely ridiculous to have pilots doing. Crash pad or hotel but ops? Come on now.

Blueflyer
12-14-2018, 03:28 PM
How do you request a trip in order to meet consolidation? How far out from the deadline would be prudent to request a trip?

RhinoBallAuto
12-14-2018, 03:50 PM
How do you request a trip in order to meet consolidation? How far out from the deadline would be prudent to request a trip?

You're not responsible to do so.... But it's understood that you would want to preclude having to get an extension. The CP office can help, and they will help you coordinate with CS to get you on a reserve assignment, or buy someone's trip....but if you call, do NOT ask for "proficiency flying." While that is a valid technique, it will NOT increase your GTD in the reserve pool. You will literally be flying for free.

Blueflyer
12-14-2018, 04:26 PM
You're not responsible to do so.... But it's understood that you would want to preclude having to get an extension. The CP office can help, and they will help you coordinate with CS to get you on a reserve assignment, or buy someone's trip....but if you call, do NOT ask for "proficiency flying." While that is a valid technique, it will NOT increase your GTD in the reserve pool. You will literally be flying for free.

So the request always starts from the CPO?

How far from the consolidation deadline can you start asking for a trip?

Cheddar
12-14-2018, 05:03 PM
So the request always starts from the CPO?



How far from the consolidation deadline can you start asking for a trip?



You can email them anytime and start putting the bug in their ear.

I didnít consolidate on the 76 and went to a requal. It wasnít a big deal as I live close to the GSW and I actually liked the refresher. Going through an R9 with 30 hours in type wasnít ideal but not difficult.

Iím a month into my new consolidation period with exactly 3 hours. Iíll probably start bugging the flight office 2 months out of this awesome trend continues. First world WB problems [emoji12]


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C37AFE
12-15-2018, 02:30 PM
Get a used class b rv!

mainlineAF
12-15-2018, 03:48 PM
You can email them anytime and start putting the bug in their ear.

I didnít consolidate on the 76 and went to a requal. It wasnít a big deal as I live close to the GSW and I actually liked the refresher. Going through an R9 with 30 hours in type wasnít ideal but not difficult.

Iím a month into my new consolidation period with exactly 3 hours. Iíll probably start bugging the flight office 2 months out of this awesome trend continues. First world WB problems [emoji12]


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Ugh Iím jealous. My landings count has been pegged at 250 the last 4 years.

EMBFlyer
12-15-2018, 03:52 PM
Ugh Iím jealous. My landings count has been pegged at 250 the last 4 years.

And it will never go higher than that in DECS.

airlinegypsy
12-15-2018, 05:13 PM
You all make enough to not be sleeping in ops. Thatís absolutely ridiculous to have pilots doing. Crash pad or hotel but ops? Come on now.



Why bother paying for a hotel or even schlepping to the crashpad when at best you would get 4 hours of sleep before catching a flight home?


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Cheddar
12-16-2018, 06:53 AM
Why bother paying for a hotel or even schlepping to the crashpad when at best you would get 4 hours of sleep before catching a flight home?


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I think theyíre talking about before a trip begins...



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airlinegypsy
12-16-2018, 12:51 PM
I think theyíre talking about before a trip begins...



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To some I donít think that makes a difference at all.


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sherpster
12-18-2018, 06:03 AM
320 v 737 LGA information. I see a lot of 320 LGA new hires soon (if I am reading the tea leaves correctly)

Anyways, info from the last 2 vacancy announcements:
LGA FO Vacancies:
737 320
199 184 Projected in Sept for Jan 2019
207 185 In Sept for March 2019
216 206 In Oct for March 2019
216 206 In Oct for May 2019
231 257 In Dec for June 2019 (24 737-I)
231 257 In Dec for Aug 2019 (24 737-I)

Too lazy to count the actual number of trips and their length from the most recent bid pack
737 320 -
19 22 LGA trip pages
18 12 JFK trip pages
13 9 EWR trip pages

737 International is all LGA

wiz5422
12-22-2018, 06:13 PM
Quick questions....

Hopefully going to choose the 320 in class. Looking at what base LGA, LAX or MIA is best choice for a new hire looking for best QOL with regards to;

commuting from DFW
best location for crash pads (not required, price, location and ease.)
shortest time to long call
shortest time to holding a line
Quality of trips.

and anything else you would like to add.

Thank you.

OVBIII
12-23-2018, 04:39 AM
Quick questions....

Hopefully going to choose the 320 in class. Looking at what base LGA, LAX or MIA is best choice for a new hire looking for best QOL with regards to;

commuting from DFW
best location for crash pads (not required, price, location and ease.)
shortest time to long call
shortest time to holding a line
Quality of trips.

and anything else you would like to add.

Thank you.

I am going to throw a wrench in the mix. (and I bet PRS or Mainline may be able to expound more eloquently on this idea). have you considered the 190 PHL commute (I have heard it is infinitely easier than west or east coast commute)? if you are wanting a good QOL above all then it may be prudent to consider the 190 if offered.
Not trying to do anything but increase our options of QOL! cheers.

(I would be remiss if I didn't say that DFW is increasing its NB staffing ergo you would most likely get a bid to DFW on the 737/320 within a year...which might be a great reason to commute to a 737/320 per your original intent)

PRS Guitars
12-23-2018, 07:18 AM
I am going to throw a wrench in the mix. (and I bet PRS or Mainline may be able to expound more eloquently on this idea). have you considered the 190 PHL commute (I have heard it is infinitely easier than west or east coast commute)? if you are wanting a good QOL above all then it may be prudent to consider the 190 if offered.
Not trying to do anything but increase our options of QOL! cheers.

(I would be remiss if I didn't say that DFW is increasing its NB staffing ergo you would most likely get a bid to DFW on the 737/320 within a year...which might be a great reason to commute to a 737/320 per your original intent)

I used to be a fan of the 190 for a few reasons, now with it being parked, Iím not sure. Iím not really up to speed on the movement on that fleet. Iíd be concerned about being the plug for awhile.

Iíve always thought that the DFW PHL commute would be better than DFW LGA because LAA guys are less likely to leave their comfort zone of a base they know, schedule they know etc and commute to an LUS base. But itís been a few years so that likely not the case anymore.

The great thing about PHL is the affordable crash pads with reliable bus service in Essington. LAX crash pads are more expensive and tougher transportation, Hotels are very expensive. So in that sense, I think PHL is a lot more commuter friendly.

At LAX on the other hand, you gain 2 hours on your commute, which allows for earlier trips. Just please donít use Ops as a crash pad, which seems to be on the rise.

mainlineAF
12-24-2018, 01:17 PM
I used to be a fan of the 190 for a few reasons, now with it being parked, Iím not sure. Iím not really up to speed on the movement on that fleet. Iíd be concerned about being the plug for awhile.



Iíve always thought that the DFW PHL commute would be better than DFW LGA because LAA guys are less likely to leave their comfort zone of a base they know, schedule they know etc and commute to an LUS base. But itís been a few years so that likely not the case anymore.



The great thing about PHL is the affordable crash pads with reliable bus service in Essington. LAX crash pads are more expensive and tougher transportation, Hotels are very expensive. So in that sense, I think PHL is a lot more commuter friendly.



At LAX on the other hand, you gain 2 hours on your commute, which allows for earlier trips. Just please donít use Ops as a crash pad, which seems to be on the rise.



Iím not up to speed on the 190 plan either as Iím going to be off the plane soon more than likely. But i will say i do still fly with lots of Dallas commuters.

If you come to the 190 now there is a good chance you will have to be on it until itís parked. If it was me Iíd try and avoid it if i lived in another base for that reason alone.

TankerDriver
12-25-2018, 06:38 AM
The "current" plan for the 190 is to park it by summer of '20. I believe we already lost or will soon lose 4 of them. I heard last initial quals will be Sept '19. Capt manning is an issue and FO's are being Jr assigned to Capt recently. Worst case scenerio is you pick 190 and get withheld for up to 12 months or until it goes away. By that time you'll most likely be senior enough to hold 320 at PHL or just about anywhere else your heart desires as a 320 FO.

kme9418
12-25-2018, 09:04 AM
Quick questions....

Hopefully going to choose the 320 in class. Looking at what base LGA, LAX or MIA is best choice for a new hire looking for best QOL with regards to;

commuting from DFW
best location for crash pads (not required, price, location and ease.)
shortest time to long call
shortest time to holding a line
Quality of trips.

and anything else you would like to add.

Thank you.

I was hired into 320/LAX. 13 mainline flights a day DFW-LAX. I never have a problem reserving a jumpseat 8 days out. A320 only serves one airport in LAX vs. 3 in LGA. Not sure about MIA. I did 3 days of short call after OE then had long call the next month. Volunteered for one TDY to PHL on SC then held a decent line. I've literally only flown one redeye since OE in June. Several good crashpad options in LA. I pay $340/mo for mine with air conditioning, daily maid service and clean sheets/towels on every arrival. $10 Lyft to crashpad.

wiz5422
12-25-2018, 05:10 PM
I was hired into 320/LAX. 13 mainline flights a day DFW-LAX. I never have a problem reserving a jumpseat 8 days out. A320 only serves one airport in LAX vs. 3 in LGA. Not sure about MIA. I did 3 days of short call after OE then had long call the next month. Volunteered for one TDY to PHL on SC then held a decent line. I've literally only flown one redeye since OE in June. Several good crashpad options in LA. I pay $340/mo for mine with air conditioning, daily maid service and clean sheets/towels on every arrival. $10 Lyft to crashpad.

Thanks for the info. If you are holding a line in LAX why do you still need the crash pad? Have you thought of switching to PHX?

kme9418
12-25-2018, 05:23 PM
Thanks for the info. If you are holding a line in LAX why do you still need the crash pad? Have you thought of switching to PHX?

PHX is much more senior. I'm 66% in my bid status in LAX. I'd be 95% in PHX. I don't enjoy redeyes so my seniority in LAX allows me to hold a line, fly daytime, and commute on the back end. I use the crashpad to commute in the day prior on the front end since I can't hold daytime trips that are commutable on both ends.

llws
12-28-2018, 01:27 PM
I live almost completely equidistant from EWR and LGA. Obviously JFK adds a little more time. EWR is probably most ideal. I know things change too often to predict with good success, but can anyone shed some light on 737 vs 320 specific to EWR flying. It was mentioned that the 737 does more flying out of EWR and that the 320 does some West coast stuff. But in terms of schedules, what is generally considered ďbetterĒ (and why?)? I have no problem with early starts or late finishes. Ideally, Iíd just like to maximize pay and days off and minimize TAFB.

OVBIII
12-29-2018, 07:32 AM
I live almost completely equidistant from EWR and LGA. Obviously JFK adds a little more time. EWR is probably most ideal. I know things change too often to predict with good success, but can anyone shed some light on 737 vs 320 specific to EWR flying. It was mentioned that the 737 does more flying out of EWR and that the 320 does some West coast stuff. But in terms of schedules, what is generally considered ďbetterĒ (and why?)? I have no problem with early starts or late finishes. Ideally, Iíd just like to maximize pay and days off and minimize TAFB.

I can only speak for my time there on the 737. I was on the international side (which is a small bid status), most of my trips were JFK. In the 9 months I was based in NY I didnít fly any EWR trips. There are some guys that live on the EWR side and pick those trips up (which might be you too!). It may have changed within the last year but I didnít do any transcons on the 737 mostly east coast and Caribbean routes (the ANU layover is a great time).
Because LGA is a junior base on both planes, I think youíll see your trip productivity climb rather fast.
I know thatís not much help without a 320 comparison

ColtF15
12-30-2018, 06:26 PM
AA New hire here, and stoked about the recent drops.

In the event that I have some say in what I'll be doing and where from, what is the best location to get a commutable schedule fastest?

I'm thinking based on recent drops LGA, DCA, MIA would be my best bet (anything east coast). LAX is a two hop from where I'm at and everything else has direct multiple times a day on AA metal. I will be a commuter until I get DFW (willing to wait the long game), and have no preference on what type of flying/airframe, just minimizing time away from home as I'll also be commuting to an ANG job. Did I mention I'm also a glutton for punishment? Thanks in advance.

Buzzlightyear
12-31-2018, 04:56 AM
AA New hire here, and stoked about the recent drops.

In the event that I have some say in what I'll be doing and where from, what is the best location to get a commutable schedule fastest?

I'm thinking based on recent drops LGA, DCA, MIA would be my best bet (anything east coast). LAX is a two hop from where I'm at and everything else has direct multiple times a day on AA metal. I will be a commuter until I get DFW (willing to wait the long game), and have no preference on what type of flying/airframe, just minimizing time away from home as I'll also be commuting to an ANG job. Did I mention I'm also a glutton for punishment? Thanks in advance.
Most bases have commutable trips, the key to commutability is seniority. Youíll want to find out which base gives you the most seniority the quickest. Most likely LGA or MIA. LAX might be in the mix as well. As a junior guy you will be on reserve. Commute to RSV is doable but not fun.

ColtF15
12-31-2018, 07:16 AM
I understand the academic part of it. It is the details of the bases that Iím looking for data to make the best decision.

Being more specific: Since the last drop was all 320/737 to LGA, DCA, MIA and LAX, if it stays that way for my drop and I have a choice. Given current seniority lists (that I dont yet have access to) which would be the fastest seniority growth? Also what are other considerations I need to take into account as a commuter when it comes to airports serviced by pilots based at the above mentioned? How does international vs domestic affect things?

Example: I have read something to the affect of 73s out of LA have orange county and somewhere else but 320s are only LA. As a guy who has yet to start doing this, it seems daunting for a commuter to be assigned a base with multiple airports to be available for. Maybe this isnít a big deal, maybe it is. I donít know what I dont know. Iím all mil experience and didnít cut my teeth in the regionals so this is all new to me.

Thanks in advance for the help.

nimslow
12-31-2018, 07:53 AM
I understand the academic part of it. It is the details of the bases that Iím looking for data to make the best decision.

Being more specific: Since the last drop was all 320/737 to LGA, DCA, MIA and LAX, if it stays that way for my drop and I have a choice. Given current seniority lists (that I dont yet have access to) which would be the fastest seniority growth? Also what are other considerations I need to take into account as a commuter when it comes to airports serviced by pilots based at the above mentioned? How does international vs domestic affect things?

Example: I have read something to the affect of 73s out of LA have orange county and somewhere else but 320s are only LA. As a guy who has yet to start doing this, it seems daunting for a commuter to be assigned a base with multiple airports to be available for. Maybe this isnít a big deal, maybe it is. I donít know what I dont know. Iím all mil experience and didnít cut my teeth in the regionals so this is all new to me.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Just a "data point" of sorts. There are three junior airbus fo's in my MIA crash pad, that are leaving for LGA tomorrow. Their seniority is much better in LGA than MIA, and things have been moving faster in LGA.

OVBIII
12-31-2018, 07:57 AM
I understand the academic part of it. It is the details of the bases that Iím looking for data to make the best decision.

Being more specific: Since the last drop was all 320/737 to LGA, DCA, MIA and LAX, if it stays that way for my drop and I have a choice. Given current seniority lists (that I dont yet have access to) which would be the fastest seniority growth? Also what are other considerations I need to take into account as a commuter when it comes to airports serviced by pilots based at the above mentioned? How does international vs domestic affect things?

Example: I have read something to the affect of 73s out of LA have orange county and somewhere else but 320s are only LA. As a guy who has yet to start doing this, it seems daunting for a commuter to be assigned a base with multiple airports to be available for. Maybe this isnít a big deal, maybe it is. I donít know what I dont know. Iím all mil experience and didnít cut my teeth in the regionals so this is all new to me.

Thanks in advance for the help.

LGA and MIA are your best bets. From what I have seen both are about the same seniority growth for junior pilots. In LGA, youíll have to cover JFK, LGA and EWR on the 737. Someone else will chime in on the 320. (which most of what youíll get on RSV will be between LGA and JFK). In MIA youíll have to cover FLL and PBI (most of what youíll get on RSV will be MIA).
If I were a betting man, LGA will give you the fastest relative seniority growth, however if you are going to sit SC might want to consider being on the beach for it.
Both the 320 and the 737 have close to the same growth rate in DFW, so itís the proverbial 6 of one cliche. Feel free to PM me for any help you need man. (I retired off the C model last year)

viper548
12-31-2018, 08:31 AM
We have more AB deliveries next year than 737's. I've been here 4.5 years. Here's how I'd stand in bases that have both planes.
DFW 52%AB/61%737,
LAX 43%AB/39%737,
LGA 22%AB/29%737,
MIA 35%AB/43%737,
DCA 62%AB/56%737

PRS Guitars
12-31-2018, 08:47 AM
I'll also be commuting to an ANG job. Did I mention I'm also a glutton for punishment? Thanks in advance.

I commuted to both jobs for 4 years, got a local USAFR job 6 months ago. PM me if you have questions or need some strategies to minimize the pain. Itís doable for awhile.

Funny thing is now that I finally got a local AF job, Iím considering a move to the east coast and will either be commuting to the AF again or finding a new job. Fortunately Iím an IMA now, so way less commitment.

AFTrainerGuy
12-31-2018, 02:23 PM
I commuted to both jobs for 4 years, got a local USAFR job 6 months ago. PM me if you have questions or need some strategies to minimize the pain. Itís doable for awhile.

Funny thing is now that I finally got a local AF job, Iím considering a move to the east coast and will either be commuting to the AF again or finding a new job. Fortunately Iím an IMA now, so way less commitment.

Not sure what IMA pays for and doesnít, but commuting to ANG/Reserve while living in base is SO much easier and less stressful, especially if they are picking up all the costs and providing plane tickets, rental cars, per diem, etc. Iím sure I donít have to tell you, but 1 time there every month or two beats going to Airlines 3-4 times a month on your own dime and time. Best thing I ever did was move to base and travel to Reserves. Infinitely less stressful than commuting opposite way and I canít even imagine the double commute (although I do understand why some have to do it).

PRS Guitars
12-31-2018, 03:48 PM
Not sure what IMA pays for and doesnít, but commuting to ANG/Reserve while living in base is SO much easier and less stressful, especially if they are picking up all the costs and providing plane tickets, rental cars, per diem, etc. Iím sure I donít have to tell you, but 1 time there every month or two beats going to Airlines 3-4 times a month on your own dime and time. Best thing I ever did was move to base and travel to Reserves. Infinitely less stressful than commuting opposite way and I canít even imagine the double commute (although I do understand why some have to do it).

I think youíre doing it the best way, mainly because youíll be done with the military in a few years, and will be set up nicely in base for the rest of your long airline career. IMA does pay for travel. Iíd likely knock out all 24 days at once split over two airline bid months.

I wonít move for at least 1.5 years and will only have to do the above twice before I get my 20.

Sliceback
12-31-2018, 05:52 PM
Flying fighters, heavies, or a desk? Talking to local ANG guys makes me think one trip a month to fly fighters isnít going to hack it.

In the first couple of months, and definitely years, the Ďbestí choice might change. To sit junior reserve I wonder if UDC 320 would be best? Especially if you have an ID and can stay in a VOQ??

Get more senior and perhaps JFK? Or MIA? Add another six months and you might be able to get DFW by then.

The good news this isnít a permanent decision. Vacancy runs are 3-4x a year. So even if you, with 20/20 hindsight, think ďI should have bid XĒ you can get there in a couple of months.

Sliceback
12-31-2018, 05:56 PM
Anyone want to run the relative seniority numbers for someone 500 (6 months) and 1,000 (12 months) more senior?

And how many lines went junior to someone 500 and 1,000 numbers from the bottom? IMO thatís the short term window that guys should be evaluating.

And the best option - anyone live near ColtF15? Have lunch and bring a PC/ notebook and show him the answers. Been there, done that.

styx
12-31-2018, 08:04 PM
Where in DFW are you located? -> Send me a PM.

DownAndDirty
12-31-2018, 08:56 PM
Out of all of the junior FO bases, are there noticeable differences in cost of living (hotels, crash pads, etc) and ease of transportation to said airports? Are there any factors like this to consider or do they pale in comparison to which base you can gain the most seniority in the least amount of time?

Name User
12-31-2018, 11:55 PM
Out of all of the junior FO bases, are there noticeable differences in cost of living (hotels, crash pads, etc) and ease of transportation to said airports? Are there any factors like this to consider or do they pale in comparison to which base you can gain the most seniority in the least amount of time?


PHL - plethora of cheap crashpads with quick cheap reliable public transit, commuters paradise
CLT - cheap hotels ($40) but limited (ie none) public transit crashpads
DFW - cheap hotels ($40) not much public transit for crashpad
DCA - walkable crashpads, expensive hotels
JFK - sucks - don't go there!
MIA - not sure
LAX - expensive crashpads and ungodly expensive hotels
ORD - not sure
PHX - not sure

viper548
01-01-2019, 12:14 AM
PHX-cheap hotels except prices go way up mid feb-end of march when spring training is going on.

ColtF15
01-01-2019, 05:07 AM
All,

Thanks. This really helps in my decision making and planning. I am always impressed and humbled by the outpouring of support from APC.

wiz5422
01-01-2019, 05:15 AM
PHL - plethora of cheap crashpads with quick cheap reliable public transit, commuters paradise
CLT - cheap hotels ($40) but limited (ie none) public transit crashpads
DFW - cheap hotels ($40) not much public transit for crashpad
DCA - walkable crashpads, expensive hotels
JFK - sucks - don't go there!
MIA - not sure
LAX - expensive crashpads and ungodly expensive hotels
ORD - not sure
PHX - not sure


Thanks for the info, anyone else care to fill in the "not sure" or add any additional info.

Sliceback
01-01-2019, 05:51 AM
MIA hotels get expensive ($150-200) in season. Crash pads at the fuel farm between the approach ends of 27 and 30. A bus stop is about 1/4-1/2 mile away. Or cab/uber.

ORD has crash pads. UA. Used to be one metro stop from ORD.

JFK has crash pads across the highway from the long term parking lot.

LGA has crash pads across the highway.

MIA/JFK/LGA - you're getting wet if it's raining due to the walk. Most cabs don't want to do a 1/2-mile fare.

Sliceback
01-01-2019, 07:36 AM
Caveats - some bid statuses have almost zero influx, or outflow, over the latest three month period posted. A lot of the junior bid statuses have 50-60 and the top has 75 guys leaving over the next 3 months.

Historically LGA and MIA have always been junior which means movement at the bottom. LAX is this recent hiring cycle has joined the crowd.

Some exceptions, that are coming to an end, are PHL 190 and DFW S80. If you want either of those bases you need to be prepared to bid them. DFW S80 training is supposedly finished. There's always the crazy chance, very slim, that it opens up again.

PHL 190 - lots of junior guys and at some point, as the fleet draws down, the opportunity for rapid advancement might come to a screeching halt so some caution is advised if you commute and think that's the quickest way to hold a line. If you're on reserve when the advancement stops you might have been better off choosing a different plane/base combination. Good luck figuring out the matrix as to when that occurs and at what seniority the line will be drawn.


Current seniority list is 15,053. Doesn't include December's new hires. So it's about 15,135 +/-. The seniority list is updated July 1st so the list still includes retirees from July 1st 2018 until today.

We have something called the '3XP'. That was part of the old computer code to see where you sat in a bid status. You will get used to hearing that term as it shows you where you sit, and what trips you could hold, currently and going back to Jan 1998.

I used the current 3XP for January's flying and adjusted it for the movement posted in and out of bid statuses through March 2019. A bid status might show 300 guys but if 75 guys are leaving (green on the APA 3XP) the actual bid status size will be 225 in March. It's not shrinking, it's just guys moving between bid statuses are double counter (I think that's how it works!?!).

The following seniority numbers reflect 14,500 and 14,000 relative seniority percentages with 14,500 being the first percentage -

DFW S80 98% 76% * bid status no longer accepting new bids?
737D X 97% X = unable to hold
320D X 96%

LAX 737 81% 72%
320 73% 63%

LGA 737D 73% 41%
320 69% 54%

MIA 737 79% 64%
320 88% 74%

DCA 737 81% 65%

UDC 320 X 98% the worst. But if you live near DC...

PHL 190 58% 17% the best. But when does the music stop?
320 96% 95%


What is the bottom line holding seniority(rough estimate)?

DFW S80 14,500
737D 14,100
320 13,700

LAX 737 14,500
320 14,700

LGA 737D 14,700
320 14,700

MIA 737 14,300
320 14,800

DCA 737 14,800

UDC 320 13,800

PHL 190 14,500
320 13,300


Non new hire bases -

BOS X 94% 14,300
CLT X X 13,000
PHX 93% 88% 14,000
ORD 98% 98% 13,500

ColtF15
01-01-2019, 07:51 AM
Wow! That is a ton of data and I really apperciate the time you put in.

Slowmover
01-02-2019, 01:14 PM
My 2c... started at LGA in August, got to DCA in October. Commuter, my long term plan is DFW.

LGA was a pain for all the reasons mentioned elsewhere. DCA has been much better. Reserve is somewhat senior here, so I held a line in November. Crashpad is nice, $245/mo, 25 min walk to the gate at DCA. I had enough flexibility by December to fly pretty much all DCA unless I want BWI or IAD.

On the few occasions where it has made sense to go out there, Iíve been able to find decent convenient hotels for under $100. It is a hassle to get to either, and I usually commute in or out to them. BWI from DCA is on par with the Queens-EWR trip. 2+ hours on public transit or an expensive Uber.

I would definitely pick DCA over LGA again. YMMV!

wiz5422
01-02-2019, 07:31 PM
Looks like I am leaning more LGA 320. Anyone with experience care to share their experience; commuting up their, crash pads, price, location, and length required for one. Good hotels, transportation options to both JFK and EWR? Time on reserve, how long to hold long call etc.


Thanks.

Pack
01-07-2019, 05:48 AM
Class drop 1/8/19
7 LAX/FO/320/I
7 MIA/FO/320/I
5 LGA/FO/320/D
2 LGA/FO/737/I
10 MIA/FO/737/I
4 DCA/FO/737/D
7 LAX/FO/737/D
6 LGA/FO/737/D

aa73
01-08-2019, 04:10 AM
DCA, first time it goes to new hires I believe, nice.

Buzzlightyear
01-08-2019, 11:33 AM
DCA, first time it goes to new hires I believe, nice.

I think your right. It went to NH guys in training sometime last year. 2 months ish on property.

DownAndDirty
01-08-2019, 01:23 PM
Can anyone talk to the different type of lines you'll do at LGA/MIA/LAX? Any differences between the 3?

overqualified52
01-08-2019, 01:49 PM
[QUOTE=Al Czervik;2717901]Iíve flown it. It sucks.[/QUOTE....The L-1011 is much nicer and pax loved it ...

DesertDog
01-08-2019, 03:42 PM
The simple solution is to buy a reliable used car in MIA (make sure the AC works). This gives you a lot of flexibility on crash pads. Plus there are a lot of interesting places to see in MIA like Little Havana. Couple of years from now you can sell it for what you paid.


Then next step is a FA girlfriend & you're set.

Sliceback
01-08-2019, 04:05 PM
Can anyone talk to the different type of lines you'll do at LGA/MIA/LAX? Any differences between the 3?

LAX has Hawaii. East coast trips are easier on your body than west coast trips. The sun comes up in the east, and sets in the west, for as long as I've been in the industry. The sun matters. LAX trips look fine on paper and then you convert them to home time and suddenly the 0800 departure on the east coast feels like 0500.

MIA does a bunch of Caribbean flying. December-April Caribbean flying is the best flying in the industry. But every other flight is a bag drag through customs. You get to know the ICE guys by name after awhile.

CowboyPilot79
01-08-2019, 04:47 PM
Colt, did you graduate from Southlake Carroll?

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

Photon1
01-09-2019, 11:51 AM
Iíve flown it. It sucks.

Maybe you suck at flying. I've flown it and find it elementary in all aspects. Sorry it's a little too much machine for your wimpy ass.

I apologize. I don't want to trigger you. But maybe some insight into what exactly sucks about the 737 so I can dispute.

KiloAlpha
01-09-2019, 12:24 PM
Why it sucks has been beat to death. Small cockpit, loud, poor HVAC, no tray table, no side stick.

Same as the hundred other posts on the subject.

AAfng
01-09-2019, 12:29 PM
Maybe you suck at flying. I've flown it and find it elementary in all aspects. Sorry it's a little too much machine for your wimpy ass.

I apologize. I don't want to trigger you. But maybe some insight into what exactly sucks about the 737 so I can dispute.

You sound like a real peach of a guy

QuagmireGiggity
01-09-2019, 12:45 PM
Maybe you suck at flying. I've flown it and find it elementary in all aspects. Sorry it's a little too much machine for your wimpy ass.

I apologize. I don't want to trigger you. But maybe some insight into what exactly sucks about the 737 so I can dispute.
You are such a stud. Only real men like you can handle it.

Photon1
01-09-2019, 01:18 PM
You sound like a real peach of a guy

Ouch. The ole "you sound like a real peach of a guy" response. I'm hurt. Course there is always that guy who has to throw out that response. And he is usually a pretty insecure type, but I digress.

We can do this all day or you or your butt buddy can explain what exactly sucks about the 737. If you cant, then I will continue to believe you are just wimps who somehow got their ass kicked by the 73. I get sick of people who supposedly love to fly indicting a perfectly fine airplane with "it sucks". And dont come with "its noisy". BFD. A nice headset cures that. BTW, military fighters are noisy but I dont categorize them as "sucking".

Photon1
01-09-2019, 01:18 PM
You are such a stud. Only real men like you can handle it.

Ok fine. Thanks. You said it.

Photon1
01-09-2019, 01:23 PM
Why it sucks has been beat to death. Small cockpit, loud, poor HVAC, no tray table, no side stick.

Same as the hundred other posts on the subject.

I guess you get to define what sucks. Wah wah. Small...OMG, how big are you? Nevermind. Loud...OMG, invest in a good headset, duh. Poor HVAC, OMG, not if you know how to run things. No tray table or side stick...seriously???? Yeah, says you of the airbore cult.

mainlineAF
01-09-2019, 01:32 PM
Somebody needs to switch to decaf lol

Photon1
01-09-2019, 02:00 PM
Decaf may be in order!!

I was just jiving. Thats fine if people want to say a jet sucks because of some minor inconveniences. Me, I have loved every plane I have ever flown. None of them were perfect. I guess my love of flying outweighs my sense of complaining and namecalling aircraft. Especially ones that have gotten me on deck safely 100% of the time. Loudness, small cockpit, no tray table or sidestick, etc, these things dont define a jet as "sucking" in my opinion. Airline flying is the easiest job I have ever had. I love it. I love the 73. I have no problem going into combat each day with that damn box on my descent. I take it as a challenge and love the match. I feel good in a tight cockpit. I can put my legs up. I can recline the seat. All is good. I got me a good headset, no more loud cockpit. Pretty easy stuff. And when I move the yoke left, airplane rolls left. Pull back, airplanes nose picks up. Amazing. The ole horse has brought me home every single time. No complaints.

Covfefe
01-09-2019, 02:52 PM
Good god I hate pilots.

symbian simian
01-09-2019, 02:57 PM
I think your right. It went to NH guys in training sometime last year. 2 months ish on property.

Whose right?

symbian simian
01-09-2019, 03:00 PM
Ouch. The ole "you sound like a real peach of a guy" response. I'm hurt. Course there is always that guy who has to throw out that response. And he is usually a pretty insecure type, but I digress.

We can do this all day or you or your butt buddy can explain what exactly sucks about the 737. If you cant, then I will continue to believe you are just wimps who somehow got their ass kicked by the 73. I get sick of people who supposedly love to fly indicting a perfectly fine airplane with "it sucks". And dont come with "its noisy". BFD. A nice headset cures that. BTW, military fighters are noisy but I dont categorize them as "sucking".

Maybe the fact that the turbo prop designed in 1980 I flew has a better designed cockpit?

(Fokker 50)

Photon1
01-09-2019, 03:15 PM
Maybe the fact that the turbo prop designed in 1980 I flew has a better designed cockpit?

(Fokker 50)

Fine. Maybe some folks just adapt better than others. I don't find anything wrong with the basic design of the cockpit. Allows me to easily do everything i desire/need to do. Still not sure what exactly is so bad. I can reach everything. I can fly it and land it. What am i missing?

Buzzlightyear
01-09-2019, 04:17 PM
Whose right?

He is. My point was that itís been dropping in seniority. In reality thereís not much difference than a NH being awarded it initially versus a guy getting it awarded during training. Both cases the guy still isnít commuting yet.

EMBFlyer
01-09-2019, 05:28 PM
Why it sucks has been beat to death. Small cockpit, loud, poor HVAC, no tray table, no side stick.

Same as the hundred other posts on the subject.

Is the cockpit that of a DC-10 or L-1011? No. I'm 6'2" and by no means small, and I'm ok it.

Yeah, the Block 1 airplanes are loud, but the newer ones aren't that bad. Tons of Airbus guys talk about noise cancelling headsets, too.

HVAC may have sucked in the -300s (or -200s or any classic), but I think it's great in the -800. Occasionally, you have to run the packs off the APU on the ground in the summer, but I normally stay comfy in it.

No tray table? Meh.

No side stick? GREAT! I enjoy having a tactile feel of what the airplane is doing.

nimslow
01-09-2019, 05:37 PM
Maybe the fact that the turbo prop designed in 1980 I flew has a better designed cockpit?

(Fokker 50)

Pretty sure F50 isn't a valid bid status these days.

Honestly, I cant believe this is still a discussion. Seniority/QOL/pay should be the only things anyone considers in selecting what to bid.

I'd go back and fly the Shorts 360 again, for the right pay and QOL. I've flown the bus and the 73 (and the very "super" 80). all of them were fine airplanes.

My only "career airplane regrets" are that I'll never get to fly an L-1011, or an RB211 powered 757, or an Electra before I retire. But I'll somehow manage to work through the pain.

R57 relay
01-09-2019, 05:38 PM
Is the cockpit that of a DC-10 or L-1011? No. I'm 6'2" and by no means small, and I'm ok it.

Yeah, the Block 1 airplanes are loud, but the newer ones aren't that bad. Tons of Airbus guys talk about noise cancelling headsets, too.

HVAC may have sucked in the -300s (or -200s or any classic), but I think it's great in the -800. Occasionally, you have to run the packs off the APU on the ground in the summer, but I normally stay comfy in it.

No tray table? Meh.

No side stick? GREAT! I enjoy having a tactile feel of what the airplane is doing.


Through the artificial feel computer! NGs still have that? Anyway, fake feel! ;)

Cheddar
01-09-2019, 05:44 PM
Decaf may be in order!!



I was just jiving. Thats fine if people want to say a jet sucks because of some minor inconveniences. Me, I have loved every plane I have ever flown. None of them were perfect. I guess my love of flying outweighs my sense of complaining and namecalling aircraft. Especially ones that have gotten me on deck safely 100% of the time. Loudness, small cockpit, no tray table or sidestick, etc, these things dont define a jet as "sucking" in my opinion. Airline flying is the easiest job I have ever had. I love it. I love the 73. I have no problem going into combat each day with that damn box on my descent. I take it as a challenge and love the match. I feel good in a tight cockpit. I can put my legs up. I can recline the seat. All is good. I got me a good headset, no more loud cockpit. Pretty easy stuff. And when I move the yoke left, airplane rolls left. Pull back, airplanes nose picks up. Amazing. The ole horse has brought me home every single time. No complaints.



Wow, and I thought I had a drinking problem. Hyperbole much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cheddar
01-09-2019, 05:44 PM
Good god I hate pilots.



I wish we could give out ďlikesĒ on this site..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Photon1
01-09-2019, 05:56 PM
Agree. Ergonomics and side stick??? What, the 2-3 minutes its actually touched er gripped? Tray table?
I dont eat the slop anyway so irrelevant to me. People can disagree on creature comforts or their ability to adapt, but i assure you that the 737, at least the 800s, dont suck as airplanes, else they wouldn't be as successful as they are. If you are of that opinion, well thats not illegal, but i think its pretty juvenile to answer a new hire that an airplane sucks just because you despise it ergonomically or noise wise or whatever creature comfort you dont find. At least Sliceback and others were diplomatic and rational about it with well thought out and genuine answers versus Al's "it sucks" and nothing else definitive statement. Im a 73 guy but have jumpseated on Airbus more than i can count. Personally, there is no draw to it. But i dont go around saying it sucks. Im sure it too is a fine airplane that may have some better features than a 73. But i have yet to experience anything on the 73 to make me desire a change. I would agree with the consensus that says go for QOL over a specific platform. Most pilots would probably attain happiness on either airplane. There will always be a Negative Nancy running around.

Photon1
01-09-2019, 07:06 PM
Wow, and I thought I had a drinking problem. Hyperbole much?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Relax dude. You are overthinking it.

Floobs
01-09-2019, 10:45 PM
I wish AA had an all Airbus narrowbody fleet.

QuagmireGiggity
01-10-2019, 08:48 AM
Agree. Ergonomics and side stick??? What, the 2-3 minutes its actually touched er gripped? Tray table?
I dont eat the slop anyway so irrelevant to me. People can disagree on creature comforts or their ability to adapt, but i assure you that the 737, at least the 800s, dont suck as airplanes, else they wouldn't be as successful as they are. If you are of that opinion, well thats not illegal, but i think its pretty juvenile to answer a new hire that an airplane sucks just because you despise it ergonomically or noise wise or whatever creature comfort you dont find. At least Sliceback and others were diplomatic and rational about it with well thought out and genuine answers versus Al's "it sucks" and nothing else definitive statement. Im a 73 guy but have jumpseated on Airbus more than i can count. Personally, there is no draw to it. But i dont go around saying it sucks. Im sure it too is a fine airplane that may have some better features than a 73. But i have yet to experience anything on the 73 to make me desire a change. I would agree with the consensus that says go for QOL over a specific platform. Most pilots would probably attain happiness on either airplane. There will always be a Negative Nancy running around.
I would happily put up with the noise, cramped cockpit. THat's not why it sucks so much. It's just an annoying airplane. 95% of people I've flown with that have flown both agree. Most people on the 737 ***** and moan about it. No one *****es about the bus. It's mostly that it's a non intuitive outdated crap system. High approach speeds ect. Sorry it has to be explained to you since you've flown both. These discussions will continue and it will always be 73 people on the defense vs the other way around. It will remain that way for a reason.

Photon1
01-10-2019, 10:15 AM
Non-intuitive, crap system??? I just respectfully disagree. What exactly do you mean? Sorry that i havent been around for years following all the back and forth. Im simply joining the current discussion. I havent flown both. I said i had jumpseated on the airbus more than i can count. I saw pilots pushing buttons and twisting knobs on both. Its not like you are making the airbus do things by voice or just by thinking. Im racking my brain trying to determine what is really so cosmically different. You are correct though, i doubt anyone's mind will be changed. BTW, the MD80 is what i would call outdated, but funny that every single guy i know who flew/flies it, loved it. Worked their ass off but loved it.

Photon1
01-10-2019, 10:26 AM
Im not trying to be combative. Maybe i just dont have enough time on the 737 or just havent paid much attention. Just seems to be a pretty simple airplane to fly and intuitive as well. Sorry again if i have missed out on all the particulars.

aa73
01-10-2019, 11:53 AM
Off topic (well, kind of.)

What is going on with all the Airbus fume events? Just read we had another one today on PHL-FLL.
Seems like this tends to be unique to the AB fleet.

Buzzlightyear
01-10-2019, 12:23 PM
Off topic (well, kind of.)

What is going on with all the Airbus fume events? Just read we had another one today on PHL-FLL.
Seems like this tends to be unique to the AB fleet.
But itís got a side stick and a tray table. A table for setting stuff on and Instagramming.

Name User
01-10-2019, 12:48 PM
Off topic (well, kind of.)

What is going on with all the Airbus fume events? Just read we had another one today on PHL-FLL.
Seems like this tends to be unique to the AB fleet.

Just an FYI but they were also really bad on the 767-200. Sent a crew to early retirement and I believe the Capt actually died later.

So, Boeing isn't really immune. One has to wonder if that factored into the 787 bleedless system.

Rockiepilot
01-10-2019, 12:51 PM
Off topic (well, kind of.)

What is going on with all the Airbus fume events? Just read we had another one today on PHL-FLL.
Seems like this tends to be unique to the AB fleet.

I recall the 767 having similar issues. Not an Airbus thing at all.

Arado 234
01-10-2019, 12:51 PM
...

No side stick? GREAT! I enjoy having a tactile feel of what the airplane is doing.

Enjoy until MCAS kicks in or you see your trim dive you into the ground (Flydubai).

I hate those homoerotic comments justifying having a thick bulky control column stuck between your legs.

aa73
01-10-2019, 12:54 PM
Thx, I hadnít heard of the 767 event. I know the 737 has had a couple involving deice fumes thru the packs. I guess recently it has been a lot of Busses...

aa73
01-10-2019, 12:56 PM
Enjoy until MCAS kicks in or you see your trim dive you into the ground (Flydubai).

I hate those homoerotic comments justifying having a thick bulky control column stuck between your legs.

Arado, that was bad piloting technique on both events and you know it. Please don’t associate crappy piloting with the airplane. Might as well blame AF447 on the airplane too then.

FlyDubai crash required the pilots to FLY the airplane since TOGA is always a manual go around. They got disoriented, plain and simple. I’ve done plenty of those in crap weather and while it’s a handful, it’s nothing we don’t practice in the sim every 9 months.

Lion Air was basically unreliable airspeed/AOA with runaway trim... the right course of action would be to to disable the AP and regular trim using the cutout switches. In fact the prior crew in the prior flight did just that when they encountered the same situation. Yes it was also a crap situation but not unrecoverable.

Bottom line, both fleets have had plenty of crashes that could have been prevented with good piloting and/or CRM, and not due to airplane design.

Speaking of trim and AF447, a major contributor to the crash was the fact that the auto trim ended up trimming the THS full nose up, and would have required at least 30 seconds of full nose down side stick to undo the out of trim situation. Not exactly confidence-inspiring on the part of Airbus...

Oh, btw. I just flew our newest Max last night. Speed trim worked great, gave us a nice smooth flight. It kicked in plenty. Nice quiet cockpit too. ;-)

Photon1
01-10-2019, 12:59 PM
Enjoy until MCAS kicks in or you see your trim dive you into the ground (Flydubai).

I hate those homoerotic comments justifying having a thick bulky control column stuck between your legs.

Douchebag extraordinaire.

bigtime209
01-10-2019, 03:22 PM
Or how about this guys? If you like the 737, cool. If you like the bus, cool. If you like whichever equipment gives you the best QOL, cool. If you're happy with what you're on for whatever reason, how about we just leave it at that without trying to convince anyone else otherwise.

Arado 234
01-10-2019, 04:16 PM
Douchebag extraordinaire.

It's easier to attack the person than the argument.

Personal attack. Reported.

Arado 234
01-10-2019, 04:25 PM
Arado, that was bad piloting technique on both events and you know it. Please donít associate crappy piloting with the airplane. Might as well blame AF447 on the airplane too then.

FlyDubai crash required the pilots to FLY the airplane since TOGA is always a manual go around. They got disoriented, plain and simple. Iíve done plenty of those in crap weather and while itís a handful, itís nothing we donít practice in the sim every 9 months.

Lion Air was basically unreliable airspeed/AOA with runaway trim... the right course of action would be to to disable the AP and regular trim using the cutout switches. In fact the prior crew in the prior flight did just that when they encountered the same situation. Yes it was also a crap situation but not unrecoverable.

Bottom line, both fleets have had plenty of crashes that could have been prevented with good piloting and/or CRM, and not due to airplane design.

Speaking of trim and AF447, a major contributor to the crash was the fact that the auto trim ended up trimming the THS full nose up, and would have required at least 30 seconds of full nose down side stick to undo the out of trim situation. Not exactly confidence-inspiring on the part of Airbus...

Oh, btw. I just flew our newest Max last night. Speed trim worked great, gave us a nice smooth flight. It kicked in plenty. Nice quiet cockpit too. ;-)

I have read "Understanding AF447". Good book. It also showed that stall recovery techniques had to be adjusted. Don't wanna bore you with details.

If you like your 73, more power to you (am being honest. Not sarcastic). I had an issue with the mighty MAX out of BOS, it was weight restricted.

I'd rather sit in an airplane that has a space ship like feeling and let's me enjoy 8 hours of work with the least amount of pain possible. I don't need anything that makes me feel more manly. Same reason I don't like loud pipes. If you do and have to let your neighbors know about it. Cool.

Photon1
01-10-2019, 04:26 PM
It's easier to attack the person than the argument.

Personal attack. Reported.

I was attacking your moronic argument associating bad piloting in two instances and putting it on the airplane. But whatever. Like the other poster said, you know damn well it was bad piloting.

Arado 234
01-10-2019, 04:34 PM
I was attacking your moronic argument associating bad piloting in two instances and putting it on the airplane. But whatever. Like the other poster said, you know damn well it was bad piloting.

No you weren't.

Arado 234
01-10-2019, 04:42 PM
Arado, that was bad piloting technique on both events and you know it. Please donít associate crappy piloting with the airplane. Might as well blame AF447 on the airplane too then.

FlyDubai crash required the pilots to FLY the airplane since TOGA is always a manual go around. They got disoriented, plain and simple. Iíve done plenty of those in crap weather and while itís a handful, itís nothing we donít practice in the sim every 9 months.

Lion Air was basically unreliable airspeed/AOA with runaway trim... the right course of action would be to to disable the AP and regular trim using the cutout switches. In fact the prior crew in the prior flight did just that when they encountered the same situation. Yes it was also a crap situation but not unrecoverable.

Bottom line, both fleets have had plenty of crashes that could have been prevented with good piloting and/or CRM, and not due to airplane design.

Speaking of trim and AF447, a major contributor to the crash was the fact that the auto trim ended up trimming the THS full nose up, and would have required at least 30 seconds of full nose down side stick to undo the out of trim situation. Not exactly confidence-inspiring on the part of Airbus...

Oh, btw. I just flew our newest Max last night. Speed trim worked great, gave us a nice smooth flight. It kicked in plenty. Nice quiet cockpit too. ;-)

Two more things...

Do we know for certain that the Lion Air crash was due to bad piloting? Is it bad piloting if you don't fully know your airplane?
What about Flydubai? I know those pilots were pushing a long day, how did they cause a nose trim dive?

The fact that Boeing did not include MCAS in their operating manuals on the MAX does not sound very confident either. I really would like to know whether the FAA knew about MCAS and if they agreed/allow to exclude that information from their operators. We all know that the FAA and Boeing never get too (cough lithium batteries) cozy....

aa73
01-10-2019, 06:30 PM
Arado

MCAS is just another function of the Speed Trim. If MCAS senses a low speed condition it will trim nose down. Well, with unreliable AOA and airspeed thatís what it did. The crew prior to the accident crew did the right thing and disabled the trim when the MCAS started trimming nose down. No more, no less. Donít fall for the Lion Air propaganda that Boeing screwed the pooch. No. Lion Air screwed the pooch by sending what should have been an unairworthy aircraft into service. And even with all that, the accident crew could have recovered by disabling the trim with the cutout switches.

It was a runaway trim scenario as a result of the unreliable AOA. And we train for that every nine months, no matter what fleet weíre on. Maybe Lion Air didnít train that. I donít know.

FlyDubai was a classic case of a full power TOGA after a long duty day while trimming almost full nose down, then getting completely disoriented. Pilot error.

I also read ďUnderstanding AF447Ē and itís clear that the author blames the pilots way before he blames the aircraft. And yet he does allude to the fact that the auto trim contributed to the lack of recovery by trimming full nose up.

Bottom line... Iíll fly whatever gets me the best QOL. Today that happens to be the 737 left seat which allows me to drive to work. And itís a damn fine airplane, well built albeit with some old technology, but thats what I love about it. Nothing manly about it, I just love my ride.

No doubt Iíd be more comfy in an Airbus and if it got me better QOL Iíd be on it today praising its qualities too.

Every aircraft has its pluses and minuses.

Photon1
01-10-2019, 07:00 PM
Bingo. Well said.

ORDinary
01-10-2019, 08:49 PM
I would happily put up with the noise, cramped cockpit. THat's not why it sucks so much. It's just an annoying airplane. 95% of people I've flown with that have flown both agree. Most people on the 737 ***** and moan about it. No one *****es about the bus. It's mostly that it's a non intuitive outdated crap system. High approach speeds ect. Sorry it has to be explained to you since you've flown both. These discussions will continue and it will always be 73 people on the defense vs the other way around. It will remain that way for a reason.

Just my opinion, but I can't imagine that a youngish new guy from the regionals is going to care about any of this or find anything about the 737 annoying. A lot of us came from planes without autothrottles that were a lot more cramped than a 737. My perspective (and the dozen or so with whom I went through training on it seem to agree) is that the 737 is really fun to fly and not that hard to learn. Maybe later when I've gained 30 lbs and don't want to work so hard (if that's what you call this), the Bus might be appealing, but for a new hire all that should matter is QOL. Bid to minimize or end your commuting, to get a line ASAP, etc.

AAfng
01-11-2019, 02:51 AM
Is this CnR?

Andrew_VT
01-11-2019, 07:12 AM
Is this CnR?

No, but it looks like HR is doing a great job hiring the CnR personality type.

Even with the coming retirements, the AAL internet won't have to change a bit. Yay.

AAfng
01-11-2019, 10:23 AM
No, but it looks like HR is doing a great job hiring the CnR personality type.

Even with the coming retirements, the AAL internet won't have to change a bit. Yay.

Its crazy how crazy everyone of these keyboard warriors come across on CnR.

Rockiepilot
01-11-2019, 11:42 AM
Just my opinion, but I can't imagine that a youngish new guy from the regionals is going to care about any of this or find anything about the 737 annoying. A lot of us came from planes without autothrottles that were a lot more cramped than a 737. My perspective (and the dozen or so with whom I went through training on it seem to agree) is that the 737 is really fun to fly and not that hard to learn. Maybe later when I've gained 30 lbs and don't want to work so hard (if that's what you call this), the Bus might be appealing, but for a new hire all that should matter is QOL. Bid to minimize or end your commuting, to get a line ASAP, etc.

Amen. Having done a CRJ E190 Airbus and now 737 I canít agree more. Driving to work was worth the lateral move to the 737. Seat lock up in a year and maybe try the 787 out. Who knows.

Every plane has its positives and minuses. Hell even that CRJ included in that.

Photon1
01-11-2019, 12:59 PM
Yep. Like i said before, every plane i have flown, i have enjoyed. The more outdated and bare boned, the more fun the flying seemed. Even the EMB, i especially dug the heading bug sync feature, seriously. Course this wouldn't stop the 737 heading bug nazi to my left from reaching up and centering it when it gets one click off, on my leg no less! That, and several other nervous habits, is more annoying than anything the jet can throw at me. Kinda fun though when i find that guy, to keep moving it off when he isnt looking.

jcountry
01-12-2019, 02:47 AM
DCA, first time it goes to new hires I believe, nice.

Some nearly new hires got displaced to DCA a while back.

bigscrillywilli
01-12-2019, 03:57 PM
Just an FYI but they were also really bad on the 767-200. Sent a crew to early retirement and I believe the Capt actually died later.

So, Boeing isn't really immune. One has to wonder if that factored into the 787 bleedless system.

Captain committed suicide after totally being left out in the cold on LTD. Very sad and unnecessary.

aa73
01-12-2019, 09:53 PM
Damn. That is beyond tragic

sumwherelse
01-13-2019, 07:45 AM
Decaf may be in order!!

I was just jiving. Thats fine if people want to say a jet sucks because of some minor inconveniences. Me, I have loved every plane I have ever flown. None of them were perfect. I guess my love of flying outweighs my sense of complaining and namecalling aircraft. Especially ones that have gotten me on deck safely 100% of the time. Loudness, small cockpit, no tray table or sidestick, etc, these things dont define a jet as "sucking" in my opinion. Airline flying is the easiest job I have ever had. I love it. I love the 73. I have no problem going into combat each day with that damn box on my descent. I take it as a challenge and love the match. I feel good in a tight cockpit. I can put my legs up. I can recline the seat. All is good. I got me a good headset, no more loud cockpit. Pretty easy stuff. And when I move the yoke left, airplane rolls left. Pull back, airplanes nose picks up. Amazing. The ole horse has brought me home every single time. No complaints.


Holy lord!!! When did we start landing 73ís on a ďdeck?Ē Combat? My lord I hope you are kidding.

jcountry
01-13-2019, 09:23 AM
Captain committed suicide after totally being left out in the cold on LTD. Very sad and unnecessary.

Probably more than a few did that.

LTD is pathetic.

I have a very low opinion of insurance companies to begin with, but even by my very low standards, our LTD system is 100% crap.

If itís not 100% fixed, any TA will definitely not have my vote.

EMBFlyer
01-13-2019, 10:45 AM
Holy lord!!! When did we start landing 73ís on a ďdeck?Ē Combat? My lord I hope you are kidding.

Ever been to SNA?

Photon1
01-13-2019, 12:35 PM
Holy lord!!! When did we start landing 73ís on a ďdeck?Ē Combat? My lord I hope you are kidding.

You must have a sad life. No i'm
actually not kidding jerk. Some of us refer to the ground as the deck. BFD. Does that violate your rules or just plain ole trigger you snowflake? I text my wife SOD every time i land. Is that your only smartass remark?

sumwherelse
01-13-2019, 01:20 PM
You must have a sad life. No i'm
actually not kidding jerk. Some of us refer to the ground as the deck. BFD. Does that violate your rules or just plain ole trigger you snowflake? I text my wife SOD every time i land. Is that your only smartass remark?

No youíre not in the military anymore. So if you want to continue to sound like an idiot go ahead. But if we fly together be sure to call the ground what it is-the ground!!

Photon1
01-13-2019, 01:26 PM
No youíre not in the military anymore. So if you want to continue to sound like an idiot go ahead. But if we fly together be sure to call the ground what it is-the ground!!

Pack sand. Ill call the damn ground whatever the hell i want to call it princess. Surely you can come up with some real crap to spaz about. BTW i bet you are just a hoot to fly with. A guy who goes hysteric over another's vernicular and forces their little irks onto others. Yeah i know your type.

LumberJack
01-13-2019, 01:28 PM
You must have a sad life. No i'm
actually not kidding jerk. Some of us refer to the ground as the deck. BFD. Does that violate your rules or just plain ole trigger you snowflake? I text my wife SOD every time i land. Is that your only smartass remark?

Don't take it personally. This is the 21st century internet after all. Remember when chat rooms used to be friendly places? Remember when everyone was just excited to talk to someone on the other side of the world?

38/M/BHM (tonight)

Sliceback
01-13-2019, 01:32 PM
"On the deck" has been used by civilians also.

Photon1
01-13-2019, 01:54 PM
Don't take it personally. This is the 21st century internet after all. Remember when chat rooms used to be friendly places? Remember when everyone was just excited to talk to someone on the other side of the world?

38/M/BHM (tonight)


Yeah im not gonna lose any sleep over it. Just amazing what some decide to make an issue over. The deck??? Seriously?? Boy.

Sliceback is correct. I personally have heard multiple civilians say deck while we chit chatted in the "cockpit". I didnt think they were idiot sounding.

AAfng
01-13-2019, 06:18 PM
CnR II
.....

TankerDriver
01-14-2019, 06:24 AM
Just my opinion, but I can't imagine that a youngish new guy from the regionals is going to care about any of this or find anything about the 737 annoying. A lot of us came from planes without autothrottles that were a lot more cramped than a 737. My perspective (and the dozen or so with whom I went through training on it seem to agree) is that the 737 is really fun to fly and not that hard to learn. Maybe later when I've gained 30 lbs and don't want to work so hard (if that's what you call this), the Bus might be appealing, but for a new hire all that should matter is QOL. Bid to minimize or end your commuting, to get a line ASAP, etc.Or how about mil guys who have flown 30, 40, 50+ year old tankers/bombers or Herks or fighter aircaft their whole careers. We're just happy to be here. I bet the 737 is a lot more quiet than the -135.

ORDinary
01-14-2019, 06:51 AM
Or how about mil guys who have flown 30, 40, 50+ year old tankers/bombers or Herks or fighter aircaft their whole careers. We're just happy to be here. I bet the 737 is a lot more quiet than the -135.

I suspected that but didn't want to speak for the military guys since I'm not one. It seems like there are 5 or 6 vocal guys who care about the 737 vs Bus debate and the rest of us just want good schedules/commutes/pay. I don't really care, they are welcome to their opinion, but it seems to important to let new guys know before they choose equipment during indoc that side sticks etc is meaningless to most of us other newbies, compared with other factors.

tomgoodman
01-14-2019, 07:30 AM
Or how about mil guys who have flown 30, 40, 50+ year old tankers/bombers or Herks or fighter aircaft their whole careers. We're just happy to be here. I bet the 737 is a lot more quiet than the -135.

Uh-Oh, stand by to hear ďyouíre not in the military any more.Ē For some people, any reference to the armed forces will sting like a bee. :rolleyes:

TankerDriver
01-14-2019, 09:24 AM
Well complaining is always relative to the lifestyle you're used to. Pilots will always find something to complain about.

450knotOffice
01-14-2019, 09:37 AM
CnR II
.....

Right?! I was thinking the same thing. A few people need to chill out big time.;)

SkyJunky
01-14-2019, 10:08 AM
CnR II

.....



Please pardon my ignorance here, but can someone let me know what CnR means?

Brillo
01-14-2019, 10:33 AM
Please pardon my ignorance here, but can someone let me know what CnR means?

CnR is where dreams go to die. Itís the darkest black hole of indescribable evil and despair on the internet. If you combined a CIA black site torture facility with the DMV and the dumbest, most extreme flat earther convention, thatís where I would go to take a break from CnR.

I would rather be forced to watch 72 hours of Taliban propaganda and six consecutive days of Home Shopping Channel Dagger/Indian Turquoise Specials than spend five minutes on CnR.

I would rather read the YouTube comments from the last Hillary Clinton/Donald Trump debate than read CnR.

Godwinís law is achieved on every thread in CnR, even if itís only one post.

Photon1
01-14-2019, 11:43 AM
CnR is where dreams go to die. Itís the darkest black hole of indescribable evil and despair on the internet. If you combined a CIA black site torture facility with the DMV and the dumbest, most extreme flat earther convention, thatís where I would go to take a break from CnR.


I would rather be forced to watch 72 hours of Taliban propaganda and six consecutive days of Home Shopping Channel Dagger/Indian Turquoise Specials than spend five minutes on CnR.

I would rather read the YouTube comments from the last Hillary Clinton/Donald Trump debate than read CnR.

Godwinís law is achieved on every thread in CnR, even if itís only one post.

I get a funny feeling you have spent more than 5 minutes on CnR.

Granted the slobbering love affair over Morning Haiku or the 19 page rehash of a simple R9/18 that includes everything except the position of the armrest , is kinda painful, every now and then a useful nugget of information exposes itself.

Brillo
01-14-2019, 11:52 AM
I get a funny feeling you have spent more than 5 minutes on CnR.

Granted the slobbering love affair over Morning Haiku or the 19 page rehash of a simple R9/18 that includes everything except the position of the armrest , is kinda painful, every now and then a useful nugget of information exposes itself.

Just trying to inject a little humor.

Photon1
01-14-2019, 11:56 AM
Just trying to inject a little humor.

Your description was funny. We humans love to view death and destruction though, dont we? Well some do anyway.

PRS Guitars
01-14-2019, 03:44 PM
CnR is where dreams go to die. Itís the darkest black hole of indescribable evil and despair on the internet. If you combined a CIA black site torture facility with the DMV and the dumbest, most extreme flat earther convention, thatís where I would go to take a break from CnR.

I would rather be forced to watch 72 hours of Taliban propaganda and six consecutive days of Home Shopping Channel Dagger/Indian Turquoise Specials than spend five minutes on CnR.

I would rather read the YouTube comments from the last Hillary Clinton/Donald Trump debate than read CnR.

Godwinís law is achieved on every thread in CnR, even if itís only one post.

It has actually mellowed out quite a bit in the last year, with the SLI sort of in the rear view mirror. I expect it to get vicious during negotiations, but thatís a good thing, we need to get people fired up.

For the new military folks, itís good that youíre happy to be here, you should be. Talk to your buds at other airlines though, and start getting fired up for a better contract. That should be something we can all get behind (unlike the Boeing AB debate:cool:).

EMBFlyer
01-14-2019, 04:24 PM
CnR is where dreams go to die. It’s the darkest black hole of indescribable evil and despair on the internet. If you combined a CIA black site torture facility with the DMV and the dumbest, most extreme flat earther convention, that’s where I would go to take a break from CnR.

I would rather be forced to watch 72 hours of Taliban propaganda and six consecutive days of Home Shopping Channel Dagger/Indian Turquoise Specials than spend five minutes on CnR.

I would rather read the YouTube comments from the last Hillary Clinton/Donald Trump debate than read CnR.

Godwin’s law is achieved on every thread in CnR, even if it’s only one post.

This is the most wonderful, amazing thing I have read on here in the history of EVER!!!!

All that's missing is the flames, "VOTE YES ALPA" and "Comin' in hot!"

450knotOffice
01-14-2019, 10:17 PM
This is the most wonderful, amazing thing I have read on here in the history of EVER!!!!

All that's missing is the flames, "VOTE YES ALPA" and "Comin' in hot!"

Itís RJís cominí in hot!

Címon...
You know that. 😉

Slowmover
01-15-2019, 06:16 AM
Please pardon my ignorance here, but can someone let me know what CnR means?

CnR, aka Challenge and Response, is a discussion forum on the union website for AA pilots.

send a check
01-15-2019, 07:26 AM
In the spirit of the 737 vs 320 new hire questions:

I live 1:10 West of EWR, 1:45 West of LGA and about 2:00 West of JFK (best case driving times with no traffic). EWR is never more than 1:30 drive with traffic.

Reading Sliceback's numbers that a guy can be 41% in base after a year on the 737 LGA is very appealing. But reading that most of the 737I flying is out of JFK has a lot less appeal.

Is there a type of 737 or 320 or D/I flying that would keep a person "mostly" on the EWR side?? It would be great to look forward to a time when I could count on going to EWR most of the time.

I don't care what I fly or where I go. But I would like to "try" to do reserve from home and not drive out to JFK if possible. That becomes a 3+ hour trip at peak travel times, not allotting for parking.

Thanks for all the great advice on this thread and any advice to come!!

ORDinary
01-15-2019, 07:30 AM
In the spirit of the 737 vs 320 new hire questions:

I live 1:10 West of EWR, 1:45 West of LGA and about 2:00 West of JFK (best case driving times with no traffic). EWR is never more than 1:30 drive with traffic.

Reading Sliceback's numbers that a guy can be 41% in base after a year on the 737 LGA is very appealing. But reading that most of the 737I flying is out of JFK has a lot less appeal.

Is there a type of 737 or 320 or D/I flying that would keep a person "mostly" on the EWR side?? It would be great to look forward to a time when I could count on going to EWR most of the time.

I don't care what I fly or where I go. But I would like to "try" to do reserve from home and not drive out to JFK if possible. That becomes a 3+ hour trip at peak travel times, not allotting for parking.

Thanks for all the great advice on this thread and any advice to come!!

I can't speak for the other positions, but it seems to me that if you want to do EWR trips, 737 D is pretty good. You probably won't have much choice on reserve, but once you hold a line (2-3 months at most), you should be able to easily do at least half your trips from EWR, and maybe more. Good luck.

AAfng
01-15-2019, 07:50 AM
All I see are EWR in TTOT, I bet he could do all his trips from EWR the second he gets a line which will be super quick. About half the 737 I trips are from LGA BTW (someone correct me if I am wrong)

SkyJunky
01-15-2019, 08:16 AM
CnR, aka Challenge and Response, is a discussion forum on the union website for AA pilots.



Thank you. It sounds like it is a useful tool that everyone admired and appreciates.

send a check
01-15-2019, 02:06 PM
I can't speak for the other positions, but it seems to me that if you want to do EWR trips, 737 D is pretty good. You probably won't have much choice on reserve, but once you hold a line (2-3 months at most), you should be able to easily do at least half your trips from EWR, and maybe more. Good luck.

Thanks for the information!!

send a check
01-15-2019, 02:07 PM
All I see are EWR in TTOT, I bet he could do all his trips from EWR the second he gets a line which will be super quick. About half the 737 I trips are from LGA BTW (someone correct me if I am wrong)

Thank you!!

SurfOBX12
01-19-2019, 04:35 PM
In the spirit of the 737 vs 320 new hire questions:

I live 1:10 West of EWR, 1:45 West of LGA and about 2:00 West of JFK (best case driving times with no traffic). EWR is never more than 1:30 drive with traffic.

Reading Sliceback's numbers that a guy can be 41% in base after a year on the 737 LGA is very appealing. But reading that most of the 737I flying is out of JFK has a lot less appeal.

Is there a type of 737 or 320 or D/I flying that would keep a person "mostly" on the EWR side?? It would be great to look forward to a time when I could count on going to EWR most of the time.

I don't care what I fly or where I go. But I would like to "try" to do reserve from home and not drive out to JFK if possible. That becomes a 3+ hour trip at peak travel times, not allotting for parking.

Thanks for all the great advice on this thread and any advice to come!!

Once you are a line holder, you can specify in your bid that you only want EWR trips. Iím sure you will be able to stay in EWR within the first 6 months. Either 737 or AB domestic would work.

foumanchu
01-19-2019, 05:13 PM
Is it just coincidence that all 3 of the planes that skidded off the runway/taxiway in the last 2 weeks were -73s? Maybe AB is the way to go :D

CowboyPilot79
01-19-2019, 05:55 PM
Is it just coincidence that all 3 of the planes that skidded off the runway/taxiway in the last 2 weeks were -73s? Maybe AB is the way to go :DShots fired

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6003 using Tapatalk

Slowmover
01-20-2019, 06:08 AM
Once you are a line holder, you can specify in your bid that you only want EWR trips. I’m sure you will be able to stay in EWR within the first 6 months. Either 737 or AB domestic would work.

I spent two months last year on short call in LGA. Because I prefer to fly more than sit, I proactively proffered for trips and had good luck getting EWR trips. Even as a junior guy on reserve, you will be able to exert some control on your schedule if you are smart about it.

Cheddar
01-20-2019, 09:17 PM
Shots fired

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TOLO?



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Battlinbear21
01-21-2019, 02:52 AM
Shots fired

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Dos Gringos wasnít plying loud enough in the background of the Aí20s.

CowboyPilot79
01-21-2019, 05:07 AM
Dos Gringos wasnít plying loud enough in the background of the Aí20s.[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

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isuguy
03-13-2019, 10:44 AM
I feel like Iíve seen this on the forum somewhere before, but hereís a hypothetical....

Say u live somewhere that has one plane, but not the other in base(73/320). Unfortunately ur not old enough in Indoc to get that plane that is in ur base. Is it ever possible after that day to change equipment pre class start? If not, u can wait 6 months post training then change equipment?

Rawhide16
03-13-2019, 01:27 PM
I feel like Iíve seen this on the forum somewhere before, but hereís a hypothetical....

Say u live somewhere that has one plane, but not the other in base(73/320). Unfortunately ur not old enough in Indoc to get that plane that is in ur base. Is it ever possible after that day to change equipment pre class start? If not, u can wait 6 months post training then change equipment?

The easiest and fastest way would be to try and get the same airplane in a different base if the base you want isn't available. You can bid to change bases either on the next vacancy bid or via Mutual Base Exchange. A seat lock only applies to changing aircraft...not bases. Although, I'm not sure if you can be awarded a base via MBE if it makes you the junior pilot in base.

If you can't get the same airplane then you'll have to wait until your 6 months are up as you'll be seat locked. You can bid off on the next vacancy but you won't be given a class date until the expiration of your seat lock.

I recommend not bidding the 190 if you're itching to get somewhere else fast. You're highly likely to be withheld on the 190 for up to a year from the effective date of the vacancy.

Wingnut64
03-21-2019, 03:12 PM
Howdy all,

I'm most interested in a DFW base, any equipment. Can anyone give an educated guess on the expected timeframe for upgrade in DFW?

I'm trying to weigh the opportunity at AA against some other carriers, but its difficult to compare when the time for upgrade is unknown.

Thanks!

viper548
03-21-2019, 03:25 PM
Howdy all,

I'm most interested in a DFW base, any equipment. Can anyone give an educated guess on the expected timeframe for upgrade in DFW?

I'm trying to weigh the opportunity at AA against some other carriers, but its difficult to compare when the time for upgrade is unknown.

Thanks!

I've been here almost 5 years and I project it will be another 2 years to upgrade in DFW. The junior CA in DFW has been trending more and more junior over the last couple years. Upgrade times in general have been dropping at most of the bases. For someone hired today, using projected retirement numbers, it would take 5.5 years to get to the seniority number of the junior DFW CA (10,4xx june bid). The junior CA in DFW was an 8xxx number last year, so it's dropped about 2000 numbers in the last few bids. A couple years ago the junior 737/A320 was 9xxx and now it's 12,3xx.

If I were to guess for someone hired today, I'd go with just under 5 years for DFW CA. DFW is supposed to be growing this year and 44% of the DFW captains retire in the next 5 years.

The Junior CA, 12,3xx is right at 5 years and is PHL. LAX and DCA are at 12,000 for the junior CA. LGA is 11,500, MIA 11,000

Wingnut64
03-21-2019, 04:22 PM
Thanks Viper! That is the type of info I was looking for.

RhinoBallAuto
03-21-2019, 05:34 PM
I've been here almost 5 years and I project it will be another 2 years to upgrade in DFW. The junior CA in DFW has been trending more and more junior over the last couple years. Upgrade times in general have been dropping at most of the bases. For someone hired today, using projected retirement numbers, it would take 5.5 years to get to the seniority number of the junior DFW CA (10,4xx june bid). The junior CA in DFW was an 8xxx number last year, so it's dropped about 2000 numbers in the last few bids. A couple years ago the junior 737/A320 was 9xxx and now it's 12,3xx.

If I were to guess for someone hired today, I'd go with just under 5 years for DFW CA. DFW is supposed to be growing this year and 44% of the DFW captains retire in the next 5 years.

The Junior CA, 12,3xx is right at 5 years and is PHL. LAX and DCA are at 12,000 for the junior CA. LGA is 11,500, MIA 11,000

Only thing to keep in mind is that a pretty large portion of that growth will come from the S80 sundown. There are 337 bodies that will need homes, and even with the 320/737 growth in the next three months, you will see an overall decline in NB seats in DFW through October (ref the Aug vacancy message). Time will tell if they stay in Big D or venture elsewhere...

Aug CAs FOs
320 401 394
737 384 371
S80 170 167
Total 955 932


Oct CAs FOs
320 472 466
737 435 404
S80 0 0
Total 907 870

donkedPilot
03-21-2019, 05:40 PM
Many of the S80 pilots will be tied up in a training cycle during some portion of these months

viper548
03-21-2019, 06:05 PM
The growth in DFW is supposed to come from us taking some B gates from Eagle (six I think) and Eagle will get some gates at the remote E terminal. I have no idea how this is supposed to work with 350 MD-80 guys needing training at the same time. It will be interesting to see where they all go. There are quite a few senior guys on the MD-80, so they have lots of options. I have no idea how many of them are commute vs. live in base.

Maybe other bases are covering the additional DFW flights. I believe DFW will also be adding 787 flying next year, though that may just be replacing 757 flying.

RhinoBallAuto
03-21-2019, 07:59 PM
Yes, the 80 guys will have to train... probably in Sep/Oct. That has nothing to do with the forecast numbers for Oct. With less metal and less seats, DFW is contracting in the short term, at least WRT NB positions. As more NXs and MAXs are delivered, that will certainly change -- DFW is the leading hub profit wise, and the gate forecast indicates more flying will come this way.

The biggest takeaway from my post is that the 80 sundown will cause some disruptions to the recent conventional wisdom regarding times to get into / upgrade at DFW. You can expect it to occur again when the 75/76 sundown occurs as well. Sure, there will be more NXs and 78s, but the bottom line is: different fleet mix will mean folks' bidding patterns will definitely be changing.

This isn't even remotely taking into consideration how C2020 may impact the bidding.

Bob Loblaw
03-22-2019, 12:49 PM
The vast majority of the guys I’ve asked on the 80 are planning on staying in DFW. Most will be going to other G2 aircraft, with some moving up to the bigger jets, either CA to CA, or I know of a couple going G2 CA to G4 FO for QOL.

Cheddar
03-22-2019, 04:05 PM
I believe DFW will also be adding 787 flying next year, though that may just be replacing 757 flying.


FWIW - heard from two different CKAís that the 767 will die in PHL and the 757 in DFW. 757 isnít going anywhere for 5 years, but I think the 787/777 growth in DFW will be for new routes and 767 replacements. Also it will be interesting to see if the DFW/777 starts doing the LHR flying from Vegas/PHX (I forget which one it is).

Anyway, most 757/DFW flying now are hub turns that can easily (and more cheaply) be done by 321ís. The only true 757(I) flying is LIM and then KEF this summer. ANC is going to the 788 (or so the rumor goes). Maybe the 75/76 get CUN back due to 787 utilization this summer but who knows.


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Brokeasspot
04-19-2019, 04:47 AM
I know from others that MIA 73 does lots of trips south, what about the 319? I use to do that type of flying in a job years ago and loved and miss it.

Arado 234
04-20-2019, 01:32 AM
I know from others that MIA 73 does lots of trips south, what about the 319? I use to do that type of flying in a job years ago and loved and miss it.

319s still go down south. It seems that some cities like PTY switch equipment back and forth from the 73 to the 320.

nimslow
04-20-2019, 05:28 AM
The vast majority of the guys I’ve asked on the 80 are planning on staying in DFW. Most will be going to other G2 aircraft, with some moving up to the bigger jets, either CA to CA, or I know of a couple going G2 CA to G4 FO for QOL.

Most of the guys I know that are still on the 80 also say they want to stay in DFW, but they want to stay G2 CA's more. I know a couple that really want CLT, but they cant hold it yet.

The next bid will be interesting for those in DFW, and those wanting to come here.

I finally just got back to DFW, I'm not the plug, but I'm close enough to have all my displacement preferences updated. For me, after two years of commuting to reserve as a G2 captain, I'm done with that bs. If I cant hold on to a G2 CA spot in DFW, I'm going G4 FO.

AAfng
04-21-2019, 01:28 AM
No question, just some observations from a mental midget:
This is the list of Jr Cpt's starting June 2019:
PHL 320-12143, DCA 737 Ė 12001, LGA 320-11533, LGA 737 - 11448

Whats interesting, to me at least, is that it appears the 320 is going junior on the CPT side but when I input my seniority into those bases/airframes I came out like this on the FO side:

DCA 320 FO: 86%
PHL 320 FO: 75%
LGA 320 FO: 58%
DCA 737 FO: 50%
LGA 737 FO: 46%

Not sure if those low 320 CPT slots will continue based on the FO numbers. I am thinking of switching over to the 320 and have been looking at the numbers trying to predict the future of CPT upgrades.
The 320 in LGA has about 40% less redeyes than the 737 and flights originate from LGA (55%), JFK (30%), EWR (15%) vs
737 LGA, JFK (42%), LGA (30%), EWR (28%).

For me, getting between LGA-JFK is no problem but I hate the EWR piece so I avoid it.

I am thinking the 8% loss in seniority is worth having less redeyes and EWR trips to avoid. Just going to sit tight waiting on the next vacancy bid to see if the trends continue. I am also looking at DCA 737 but 28% of their trips are out of BWI, which like EWR, seems like a pain in the butt. DCA - IAD, OK no problem but throw BWI into the mix, and I am not sure I want to mess with a base change. They are supposed to grow DCA though so time will tell.

The perfect solution is for ORD to suddenly go super junior but I dont see that anytime soon. I would be at 97% or something stupid. Also looking at LGA 737 International. No redeyes, no EWR, but with such a small bid pack I cant imagine there being much flexibility as a lineholder. I heard the reserves are the company wide *itches and it sucks but I cant verify that.

Slowmover
04-21-2019, 03:31 PM
I am also looking at DCA 737 but 28% of their trips are out of BWI, which like EWR, seems like a pain in the butt. DCA - IAD, OK no problem but throw BWI into the mix, and I am not sure I want to mess with a base change. They are supposed to grow DCA though so time will tell.

I prefer DCA trips but when I have to fly out of BWI or IAD I pick BWI because thereís a train. IAD requires an Uber or a bus from the end of the silver line. In reality it is a wash. Both take 2 hours from DCA and cost $10-$15, unless you want to pay 5+ times that and Uber. Also, it seems like there are folks that want all three, so even as a junior line holder I can avoid IAD if I want to.

I started in NY and Iíll gladly take a trip from DCA to BWI or IAD over a trip from Queens to EWR. Plus DCA is an easier commute for me. But hey, youíre senior to me so I prefer you stay where you are!

Good luck.

David Puddy
05-14-2019, 03:23 PM
Whatís the seat lock for newhires? Also, what are the pros/cons of getting assigned the A320/1 at LAX in terms of schedules, route variety, etc?

PRS Guitars
05-14-2019, 03:32 PM
What’s the seat lock for newhires? Also, what are the pros/cons of getting assigned the A320/1 at LAX in terms of schedules, route variety, etc?

New hire seat lock is 6 months plus can be withheld for another year.

Pro’s

Pretty quick to get a line, the CA’s are good to fly with (most bases are like that, but pretty laid back), pretty big bid status, so lots of options, commutable trips, gain time commuting in from MT or CT. Yes lots of variety in the trips.

Con’s

A lot of trips start with red eyes (can be a pro depending on your point of view). Most trips that start with a red eye, end late. Very expensive place to live if you choose to move there. Expensive hotels for commuters. You pay $1159 a year in CA disability which the company will offset if you go on LTD.

On balance I’m very happy to be based there. For me, best combo of easy commute and great seniority compared to every other base.

Kebert Xela
05-14-2019, 04:24 PM
New hire seat lock is 6 months plus can be withheld for another year.

Proís

Pretty quick to get a line, the CAís are good to fly with (most bases are like that, but pretty laid back), pretty big bid status, so lots of options, commutable trips, gain time commuting in from MT or CT. Yes lots of variety in the trips.

Conís

A lot of trips start with red eyes (can be a pro depending on your point of view). Most trips that start with a red eye, end late. Very expensive place to live if you choose to move there. Expensive hotels for commuters. You pay $1159 a year in CA disability which the company will offset if you go on LTD.

On balance Iím very happy to be based there. For me, best combo of easy commute and great seniority compared to every other base.


I know Iíve read about it but forgot the answer.... you still have to pay into disability even if your a commuter and not a CA resident righ?

RhinoBallAuto
05-14-2019, 05:32 PM
I know Iíve read about it but forgot the answer.... you still have to pay into disability even if your a commuter and not a CA resident righ?

CA disability, yes. CA state income tax, no.

The Kaiser
05-16-2019, 09:08 AM
Anyway, most 757/DFW flying now are hub turns that can easily (and more cheaply) be done by 321ís. The only true 757(I) flying is LIM and then KEF this summer. ANC is going to the 788 (or so the rumor goes). Maybe the 75/76 get CUN back due to 787 utilization this summer but who knows.

Any verification of this rumor yet? This could affect my 737/320 decision.
The Great Land calls me.

EMBFlyer
05-16-2019, 06:53 PM
Any verification of this rumor yet? This could affect my 737/320 decision.
The Great Land calls me.

For the month of June, at least, the 787 has picked up ANC (starting on the 5th, I think).

drinksonme
05-16-2019, 08:34 PM
Yes, ANC is now on 787 seasonally.....and many of the pilots on the 787 are very happy about it.

As the 767/757 fleet goes offline and more 787ís come online, donít be surprised to see the 787-8, especially, taking over the route the 767/757 flew domestically.

If anyone recalls, Boeing had a brochure right as the 787 was coming out, before the first ANA delivery. In it, they advertised the -8 as a 757 replacement, the -9 as 767 replacement, and the -10 as a ďpossibleĒ 777-200 replacement. Now that AA is getting so many, except the -10, donít be surprised to see them do exactly what the brochure advertised. As a far as replacing the 777, I think Boeing was focusing on passenger loads and not cargo. The 787 cannot replicate the 777 when cargo is involved.

wiz5422
05-16-2019, 08:42 PM
A little more back on topic. What are the current A320 pilots using for an IPad cover / screen protector? I know an otter box won't fit in the holder in the plane, but I would like to get something to protect it if I can.

Pilot X
05-17-2019, 04:44 AM
A little more back on topic. What are the current A320 pilots using for an IPad cover / screen protector? I know an otter box won't fit in the holder in the plane, but I would like to get something to protect it if I can.

Use nothing since they didnít buy those things for me. If it breaks they give me a new iPad :D

Aviatrx
05-17-2019, 05:24 AM
I use one of the snap on covers with the tri-fold front for $7 from amazon. It works perfectly. Some just raw dog it

AFTrainerGuy
05-17-2019, 05:45 AM
Use nothing since they didnít buy those things for me. If it breaks they give me a new iPad :D

Me too, the way apple intended.

Actually, with my personal phone I went the same way about two years ago. No cases, no screen protectors, nothing. And unlike my previous models that I would constantly crack the screen on, and had ďprotectionĒ on them, itís been over 2 years and nada.

Knock on wood.

Name User
05-17-2019, 07:04 AM
A little more back on topic. What are the current A320 pilots using for an IPad cover / screen protector? I know an otter box won't fit in the holder in the plane, but I would like to get something to protect it if I can.

I use this:

https://www.amazon.com/9-7-AVIDET-Shock-Absorption-Anti-Scratch-Transparent/dp/B06VTHYXZ9/ref=sr_1_5?crid=V5X5K26BMJEG&keywords=ipad+silicone+case+9.7&qid=1558105317&s=gateway&sprefix=iPad+silicone+%2Caps%2C151&sr=8-5

I like them because they are "sticky" and make griping the iPad easier and you can put a piece of paper with your password/login and contact info between it and the iPad for when you leave it. Makes getting it back a lot easier.

I don't use a screen protector. No real reason to do so - the glass is pretty scratch resistant and if you break it you get a new one.