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Wheelsoff
12-03-2018, 04:20 PM
Have 3 years left on my commitment in the AF. Previous heavy jet IP and current UPT IP, around 1100 PIC and 2300TT. All multiengine jet. Looking at some potential guard/reserve options and making the jump to the majors. Am considering trying to crossflow to a new (crew) aircraft as a potential 3rd (and last) assignment, but Iíd be logging minimal PIC time in that jet before separating. (I could potentially palace chase and fly that same jet in the reserves, but then that would delay my availability date potentially due to training/seasoning).

 My question is, does it raise any sort of red flags with the hiring folks at the majors if they see a guy with decent time in different aircraft (good breadth), but not quite as much overall PIC time (less depth)?

I know things will look different in 3 years than they do now at the airlines, but just curious what current airline guys think...


rickair7777
12-03-2018, 05:11 PM
They know what "normal" looks like for various airframes.

In a case like you describe I *think* they would give you the benefit of any doubt, if everything else looked good and there was no indication that you weren't welcome back in your previous community.

You would want to be able to articulate why you made the move. "I thrive on new challenges" would probably be sufficient.

On the civilian side, additional type ratings increase credibility and app score.

Wheelsoff
12-03-2018, 05:31 PM
They know what "normal" looks like for various airframes.

In a case like you describe I *think* they would give you the benefit of any doubt, if everything else looked good and there was no indication that you weren't welcome back in your previous community.

You would want to be able to articulate why you made the move. "I thrive on new challenges" would probably be sufficient.

On the civilian side, additional type ratings increase credibility and app score.

No issue going back to my old airframe (i.e. I havenít been banned from the island). The *only* reason Iím considering the switch is because itís to fly the jet I always wanted to fly since well before UPT (unfortunately, no type rating for that jet...no civilian equivalent).

Just curious if it would be a good move or not. By my conservative estimate, if I 7-day opt my next assignment and stay in AETC until 2022, Iíll leave active duty with roughly 1,500 PIC / 2700 TT (itís a grind at UPT!). If I went to the new jet, I have no idea how much time Iíd net, but conservatively estimate 1,300 PIC / 3000 TT at completion of commitment.

Not sure if either is in the ballpark of what the legacies would consider ďcompetitiveĒ in terms of hours? As far as other application boxes to check, I do have my masters degree, FWIW...


Otterbox
12-03-2018, 07:17 PM
No issue going back to my old airframe (i.e. I havenít been banned from the island). The *only* reason Iím considering the switch is because itís to fly the jet I always wanted to fly since well before UPT (unfortunately, no type rating for that jet...no civilian equivalent).

Just curious if it would be a good move or not. By my conservative estimate, if I 7-day opt my next assignment and stay in AETC until 2022, Iíll leave active duty with roughly 1,500 PIC / 2700 TT (itís a grind at UPT!). If I went to the new jet, I have no idea how much time Iíd net, but conservatively estimate 1,300 PIC / 3000 TT at completion of commitment.

Not sure if either is in the ballpark of what the legacies would consider ďcompetitiveĒ in terms of hours? As far as other application boxes to check, I do have my masters degree, FWIW...

Sounds like not much of a difference between one Gig or another. Go fly the jet you want to fly. Youíll be fine either way.

rickair7777
12-03-2018, 07:55 PM
Sounds like not much of a difference between one Gig or another. Go fly the jet you want to fly. Youíll be fine either way.

Yes.

You'll get some credit for learning a new military plane, regardless of whether it has an associated FAA type.

PurpleToolBox
12-04-2018, 01:30 AM
1100 PIC and 2300TT.

1000 PIC is a minimum requirement for some airlines. Also, 2300TT is low. Does that count UPT when you werenít qualified? Either way, I suggest you do whatever is going to build you some PIC and a bunch of total time (multi-engine turbine) as fast as possible.

My two cents.

decrabbitz
12-04-2018, 03:12 AM
3 years left? Whatís the training commitment for the new plane? Isnít it 5 years? Even if itís 3 years the clock doesnít start until training complete (6 months?) and you donít even have the assignment yet. If it causes you to extend your commitment even one day, itís not worth it- stay in current plane.
Iíve been out for a while, so if my commitment assumptions are all wrong forgive me. But my ď one day longerĒ rule still applies....

Bizkit
12-04-2018, 12:18 PM
[QUOTE=Wheelsoff;2718519]No issue going back to my old airframe (i.e. I havenít been banned from the island). The *only* reason Iím considering the switch is because itís to fly the jet I always wanted to fly since well before UPT (unfortunately, no type rating for that jet...no civilian equivalent).

I'm assuming you're looking at the U-2? PM me for more details if that's the case.

PRS Guitars
12-04-2018, 04:26 PM
Be careful about the ADSC with a new plane. Donít extend it! I was a UPT IP as well, ended that assignment with 2 years left. I went to RND to be a PIT IP. Incurred a 2 year PCS ADSC that was concurrent with my remaining 2 years, so that was perfect. It was by far the best AF assignment I ever had for QOL, and allowed me plenty of time to work on airline apps, and attend job fairs (2013 was a tougher hiring environment).

PRS Guitars
12-04-2018, 04:26 PM
[QUOTE=Wheelsoff;2718519]No issue going back to my old airframe (i.e. I havenít been banned from the island). The *only* reason Iím considering the switch is because itís to fly the jet I always wanted to fly since well before UPT (unfortunately, no type rating for that jet...no civilian equivalent).

I'm assuming you're looking at the U-2? PM me for more details if that's the case.

He said a crew plane, so Iím doubting itís the U2.

rickair7777
12-04-2018, 04:52 PM
[QUOTE=Bizkit;2718904]

He said a crew plane, so Iím doubting itís the U2.

Me, myself, and I?

Bizkit
12-04-2018, 07:35 PM
[QUOTE=PRS Guitars;2719053]



Me, myself, and I?



No mention of the possible new plane he was considering being a crew aircraft. Either way, the U-2 certainly wouldnít hurt his chances regardless of his hours. Several of our guys have done T-6 faip to U-2 to the majors; their only MEL time being about 100 hrs or so in the T-38. I think that more than simply hours; guys getting the call around here have well-rounded apps that include a lot of checks in the block. So if you can go somewhere and get Safety, Stan/Eval etc, it might make you more competitive than simply more hours.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

DARR31
12-04-2018, 08:24 PM
Have 3 years left on my commitment in the AF. Previous heavy jet IP and current UPT IP, around 1100 PIC and 2300TT. All multiengine jet. Looking at some potential guard/reserve options and making the jump to the majors. Am considering trying to crossflow to a new (crew) aircraft as a potential 3rd (and last) assignment, but I’d be logging minimal PIC time in that jet before separating. (I could potentially palace chase and fly that same jet in the reserves, but then that would delay my availability date potentially due to training/seasoning).

 My question is, does it raise any sort of red flags with the hiring folks at the majors if they see a guy with decent time in different aircraft (good breadth), but not quite as much overall PIC time (less depth)?

I know things will look different in 3 years than they do now at the airlines, but just curious what current airline guys think...

As long as you have 100 hrs in 12 months when you apply, with your mins I’d say you should be fine unless you have other skeletons in the closet. A varied background will show that you can handle training and that you did more than just one thing. Go fly the jet you wanted your last 3 and have some fun!

Hacker15e
12-05-2018, 05:18 AM
Have 3 years left on my commitment in the AF. Previous heavy jet IP and current UPT IP, around 1100 PIC and 2300TT. All multiengine jet. Looking at some potential guard/reserve options and making the jump to the majors. Am considering trying to crossflow to a new (crew) aircraft as a potential 3rd (and last) assignment, but I’d be logging minimal PIC time in that jet before separating. (I could potentially palace chase and fly that same jet in the reserves, but then that would delay my availability date potentially due to training/seasoning).

 My question is, does it raise any sort of red flags with the hiring folks at the majors if they see a guy with decent time in different aircraft (good breadth), but not quite as much overall PIC time (less depth)?

I know things will look different in 3 years than they do now at the airlines, but just curious what current airline guys think...

Honestly, you are way over-thinking it.

Given your current quals, you'll be marketable and competitive regardless of what you do, so long as you have that 100-hour (200 or 300 is better) annual lookback when your airline applications are hot.

The other stuff you're thinking about, tooth-gnashing over PIC hours (but being over the magic 1000-TPIC hurdle), is just not going to be as important as the quality of your application and quality of performance in the interview.

In your last assignment, do what you want to do and what will be best for your family.

Wheelsoff
12-05-2018, 01:17 PM
Thanks everyone for the responses so far. Tough decision for sure. I know my 2300TT is low, but 3 years from now will hopefully be closer to 3000 (~1.1 per sortie is a GRIND).

Other than trying to add the usually recommended evaluator/safety/AIS stuff to my resume, what other things can I do that maybe Iím not thinking of?

BarrySeal
12-05-2018, 05:24 PM
Honestly, you are way over-thinking it.

Given your current quals, you'll be marketable and competitive regardless of what you do, so long as you have that 100-hour (200 or 300 is better) annual lookback when your airline applications are hot.

The other stuff you're thinking about, tooth-gnashing over PIC hours (but being over the magic 1000-TPIC hurdle), is just not going to be as important as the quality of your application and quality of performance in the interview.

In your last assignment, do what you want to do and what will be best for your family.


As long as you have 100 hrs in 12 months when you apply, with your mins I’d say you should be fine unless you have other skeletons in the closet. A varied background will show that you can handle training and that you did more than just one thing. Go fly the jet you wanted your last 3 and have some fun!


I believe the original poster will be in a "Pilot role" when he retires. Maybe not. I could have mis-read this. With that said:


Question: What about a leadership/staff role, in an aviation unit, but not a "line pilot" role. Say future major airline applicant now flies about 50 hours a year due to a Safety Officer role, or Director of Training role, in his government org/military unit. He flies some, but his "day job" is reviewing FRAT scores, Excel spreadsheets, setting up safety stand-downs, managing accident/incident investigations, etc etc. Said applicant has 6000 TT and 2000 Multi-Turbine PIC, yada yada. He is also a check-airman/Stan-Eval guy and occupies a leadership role in the org. He indeed is 61.58 legal/current, IFR current, etc etc.


But his day job is no longer flying airplanes.


Thoughts ?



Thank you

Otterbox
12-05-2018, 07:15 PM
I believe the original poster will be in a "Pilot role" when he retires. Maybe not. I could have mis-read this. With that said:


Question: What about a leadership/staff role, in an aviation unit, but not a "line pilot" role. Say future major airline applicant now flies about 50 hours a year due to a Safety Officer role, or Director of Training role, in his government org/military unit. He flies some, but his "day job" is reviewing FRAT scores, Excel spreadsheets, setting up safety stand-downs, managing accident/incident investigations, etc etc. Said applicant has 6000 TT and 2000 Multi-Turbine PIC, yada yada. He is also a check-airman/Stan-Eval guy and occupies a leadership role in the org. He indeed is 61.58 legal/current, IFR current, etc etc.


But his day job is no longer flying airplanes.


Thoughts ?



Thank you

SWA accounts for such roles with active flying in the last 5 year requirements. Otherwise keep your apps out but plan on going to a regional for 6-12 months depending on training delays and how long it takes you to meet flight currency requirements. In most cases 50 hours a year isnít going to cut it.

cheap
12-06-2018, 03:31 AM
But his day job is no longer flying airplanes.


Thoughts ?



Thank you



Get out of the office and on the schedule. If they let you take leave for a week they can certainly afford to let you go fly on a week-long trip. Heck, Iíve got OG/CDs taking 1-month deployments and two-week coronets to get their hours up. Sometimes you gotta drive your own bus man.

Hacker15e
12-06-2018, 04:39 AM
But his day job is no longer flying airplanes.

Plenty of threads discussing this in the last several years if you so desire to get a more in-depth discussion.

The cliff's notes:

- Put your applications in to the majors; maybe they'll hire you, maybe they won't. There are guys who get hired without the 100-hour (or whatever the specific airline requirement) lookback, but they are the exception rather than the rule.

- General aviation flying (or any type of other flying which you're not getting paid to perform) while you're still on active duty probably won't provide what the majors are looking for. It won't hurt, but it may not be worth the money it costs you.

- Be prepared to fly for the regional airlines or overseas contractors as an interim step before getting the interview call from a "career destination" company. The contractors pay better but aren't going to look as good (or provide the same level of preparation for the major airlines) as the 121 regionals. Even as a highly experienced military pilot, you aren't "too good" or "too experienced" to take a job flying for the regional airlines: on the contrary, it will do you a lot of good on multiple levels.

- For most non-current/non-recent military guys, an interim flying job will take on average 12-18 months to turn into an interview at one of the major airlines...could be less, could be more. Be emotionally and financially prepared for 2 years, and you'll probably be happily surprised when it is less.

- All of the standard tactics for getting an interview still apply:

-- Apply everywhere. Interview everywhere you're invited. Take the first job you're offered, then continue to interview and accept jobs that you'd rather have than the one you currently have.

-- Take the time and effort to have a complete application and get professional review services to take a look at it. A similarly crafted and critiqued resume and cover letter are natural useful accompaniments to a good application.

-- Update your applications frequently with current flight times, type ratings, and employers/job titles.

-- Get professional interview prep services, regardless of if you think you need it. Guess what: you do.

Hilltopper89
12-06-2018, 05:03 AM
Thanks everyone for the responses so far. Tough decision for sure. I know my 2300TT is low, but 3 years from now will hopefully be closer to 3000 (~1.1 per sortie is a GRIND).

Other than trying to add the usually recommended evaluator/safety/AIS stuff to my resume, what other things can I do that maybe Iím not thinking of?

2300 isnít low for a mil guy. I was hired by a legacy in early 2013 with 2600 hrs. Most of it was PIC. Iíd say your biggest factor is not in the number and types of airplanes youíve flown but in the timing to avoid ADSCs. Iíd get here as soon as I could.

Best of luck.

BarrySeal
12-06-2018, 05:08 AM
Thank you cheap, Hacker

sailingfun
12-06-2018, 05:49 AM
You will be fine. Just make sure you can get out as soon as possible. Your projected hours with either option will be competitive for any major. Keep in mind that once hired you can take mil leave for new aircraft training and seasoning. You continue to accrue seniority and retirement funding while out on mil leave.

Sliceback
12-06-2018, 06:15 AM
If you really want to increase your TT get your CFI/II/MEI via the military conversion with the FAA. Fly on the side as a CFI if there's a local airport.

The airlines have made exceptions for some people. Typically senior officers in non-flying jobs. Talked with an O-6, on the O-7 track, who rarely flies and won't have 100 hrs/year. Why? Because his value to the USAF is as a senior officer. The airlines, or at least some of them, understand that.

rickair7777
12-06-2018, 08:07 AM
The airlines have made exceptions for some people. Typically senior officers in non-flying jobs. Talked with an O-6, on the O-7 track, who rarely flies and won't have 100 hrs/year. Why? Because his value to the USAF is as a senior officer. The airlines, or at least some of them, understand that.

Yes, trend is now to hire O6+ without recency on the premise that they are half way decent pilots and good organizational players. At least a couple of the bigs are supposedly doing this.

joepilot
12-06-2018, 12:26 PM
If you don't have your ATP yet, get that. It's another item to check the box on.

Joe

Wheelsoff
12-06-2018, 04:38 PM
Thanks everyone whoís posted so far for the help! Much appreciated.



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