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View Full Version : Question for a wide body pilot


buzzypeterson
12-04-2018, 09:53 AM
Hey guys. Iím flying 135 out in the Sierra mountains. Love my company and the people I work with. Maybe this is the end of the line for me and Iíll just do this till I age or med out...... But like everyone, I look around and see what the UPS pilots are making, not to mention expat pilots flying big metal and I think, ďman if I could go bigger Iíd be doing pretty well for myselfĒ

How could I go about getting into the big metal? I donít have an ATP or anything and would prefer to not do the airline thing. Unfortunately my work doesnít have any flow through agreements to bigger companies. Help me get a game plan here guys.


Twin Wasp
12-04-2018, 10:11 AM
Since almost all "big metal" is flown by airlines you're going to have to make a choice. If you're counting biz jets as "big metal" that market is a whole lot about knowing people.

Adlerdriver
12-04-2018, 10:11 AM
If you can gain the quals you need to be competitive doing what you're doing, keep it up and apply when you meet the mins for a job you do want. In the mean time, enjoy being at a job you like.


Formerbuspilot
12-04-2018, 11:57 AM
Pretty much everyone, airlines or larger corporate depts will require an ATP.

Elevation
12-04-2018, 01:28 PM
The traditional career track works best in my opinion.

I spent my first 8000 hours trying to avoid airlines. Mostly this was due to me wanting some strange life experience (living in Africa, flying in combat environments and other stuff that's essentially meaningless). I rationalized this to myself and my wife by latching on to complaints from pilots who were at regional carriers. Corporate, charter and defense contracting treated me very well, but I found no company with decent pay and QOL would look at me. Then as now I had a clean record, degrees, recommendations, etc.

As soon as I was at a regional I suddenly got calls from my current carrier and a number of LCCs.

My two take-aways from that experience:
1.)
In the minds of HR, they think they know what they're getting with airline employees. Not the best. Not the worst. But they are getting a predictable asset in comparison to people they may pull from 135, corporate and other backgrounds. (FWIW, I think all pilots are roughly equal, but I'm not in HR.).

2.)
Flying at the regionals was awesome! The complaints I listened to for years were seriously overblown. I think that's because we hear complaints more acutely. Also the pilots you interact with in FBOs, etc. are people who have left the airlines for a reason. So your sample sets consist almost entirely of people who have decided to leave airline life.

Contrary to being a cesspit. I found that the base level of frustration and hassle in airlines was about the same as any other flying job. Some aspects of airline flying, even at the regionals, were vast improvements.

My career has been very good to me financially and personally. If there's one piece of advice I could offer it's this:
Do your own research and try not to listen too much to the commentary of others.

No Land 3
12-04-2018, 07:19 PM
The traditional career track works best in my opinion.

I spent my first 8000 hours trying to avoid airlines. Mostly this was due to me wanting some strange life experience (living in Africa, flying in combat environments and other stuff that's essentially meaningless). I rationalized this to myself and my wife by latching on to complaints from pilots who were at regional carriers. Corporate, charter and defense contracting treated me very well, but I found no company with decent pay and QOL would look at me. Then as now I had a clean record, degrees, recommendations, etc.

As soon as I was at a regional I suddenly got calls from my current carrier and a number of LCCs.

My two take-aways from that experience:
1.)
In the minds of HR, they think they know what they're getting with airline employees. Not the best. Not the worst. But they are getting a predictable asset in comparison to people they may pull from 135, corporate and other backgrounds. (FWIW, I think all pilots are roughly equal, but I'm not in HR.).

2.)
Flying at the regionals was awesome! The complaints I listened to for years were seriously overblown. I think that's because we hear complaints more acutely. Also the pilots you interact with in FBOs, etc. are people who have left the airlines for a reason. So your sample sets consist almost entirely of people who have decided to leave airline life.

Contrary to being a cesspit. I found that the base level of frustration and hassle in airlines was about the same as any other flying job. Some aspects of airline flying, even at the regionals, were vast improvements.

My career has been very good to me financially and personally. If there's one piece of advice I could offer it's this:
Do your own research and try not to listen too much to the commentary of others.
As much as I hated flying PAX at a regional, and the stress of commuting, it was still the best aviation job I had up to that point. It also quickly gave me the experience to have the current job where I am truly satisfied. I have friends that tried to avoid the regionals, the only thing they accomplished was delaying their careers.

JohnBurke
12-04-2018, 08:46 PM
There's no reason to fly at a regional if one doesn't wish to.

This question was posted in the cargo section, so you've got the choice of doing ACMI, or flying for the two big Gorillas in the room, or a mishmash of smaller operators, a few of which fly "big" equipment. If it's widebody, then it's going to be 121, and if it's cargo widebody you're either ACMI (ABX, ATI, Atlas, Kalitta, Southern, Western Global, etc), or you're FedEx or UPS.

The ATP is pretty much a given for someone seeking work in...almost everything.

A four year degree won't be required for ACMI operators. Applicants come from everywhere, and get hired from everywhere. The original poster provided no information about himself or herself, so it's impossible to address where they might stand with relation to seeking a job. I doubt any of the operators will take someone without an ATP, but it's possible.

TiredSoul
12-04-2018, 11:55 PM
Find a company that will get you a 737 type and bury yourself and as soon as you hit 500hrs on type which should be in about 9 months start applying at ACMI carriers.
The big players fly 76/77/74.
Take those 9 months to figure out which one is the best option for you.

point432
12-05-2018, 05:10 AM
With this youíll have 16 cents! [emoji3526] So...get to a company that will give you an ATP day one. (Given you have the multi) That would most likely be a regional. That should give what others are saying about the HR thing. I think the regional thing will be good for you and allow you to learn another skill set.

I should have done the regional thing years ago, bc it only delayed me. But I applaud you for working 135. It doesnít get the credit its due. 135 guys work harder than 121 guys.

Good Luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

gumpscheck
12-06-2018, 05:45 AM
Find a company that will get you a 737 type and bury yourself and as soon as you hit 500hrs on type which should be in about 9 months start applying at ACMI carriers.
The big players fly 76/77/74.
Take those 9 months to figure out which one is the best option for you.

However, avoid Southern Air like a plague. Itís like a stellar black hole.

trip
12-06-2018, 07:44 AM
The 135 is fun but youíll keep looking up and wondering...
After a few years your just mucking around, my advice, go to a regional. At this point in your career you ďdonít know what you donít knowĒ Get the ATP, a type, a couple thousand hrs in three years, then pick your ACMI. If your set on FED/ UPS then add pic and a four year to make you competitive.

TiredSoul
12-07-2018, 06:17 AM
However, avoid Southern Air like a plague. Itís like a stellar black hole.

Funny you say that :rolleyes:
I just recommend somebody go to Southern.
You need to recognize it as a step and not as a destination buddy.

trip,
Itís looking down not up.
When I flew 135 I practically lived at FL450 lol

trip
12-07-2018, 07:58 AM
Funny you say that :rolleyes:
I just recommend somebody go to Southern.
You need to recognize it as a step and not as a destination buddy.

trip,
Itís looking down not up.
When I flew 135 I practically lived at FL450 lol

When I flew 135 the only thing I was looking down at were jack rabbits, then even the tall ones sometimes got in the way.

JohnBurke
12-07-2018, 08:35 AM
I flew 135 in Cessna singles and twins, Twin Commander and Turbo Commander, King Air's, Piaggios, Learjets, etc, high to low; some jobs were good, some not so good, some undesirable. Ambulance, passenger, organ recovery, charter, fractional (135/91K), USFS, various government, and so on.

It would be presumptuous and arrogant to glance down one's nose at those offering, or flying 135.

Locke
12-07-2018, 08:54 AM
I flew 135 in Cessna singles and twins, Twin Commander and Turbo Commander, King Air's, Piaggios, Learjets, etc, high to low; some jobs were good, some not so good, some undesirable. Ambulance, passenger, organ recovery, charter, fractional (135/91K), USFS, various government, and so on.

It would be presumptuous and arrogant to glance down one's nose at those offering, or flying 135.

Presumptuous and arrogant are my middle names. 135 was fun for a little while. It doesnít take long to realize youíll make a lot more money flying 121 though. Thereís a reason hordes of pilots flock to the majors, and it isnít for the honor of flying back and forth from DFW-ORD.

The regionals will open more doors for you than flying 135. Most people that are flying wide bodies came from either the military or the regionals with a few 135 guys thrown in. Play the odds, and go become a known quantity. Youíll get a lot more calls that way.

JohnBurke
12-07-2018, 10:00 AM
Most of the pilots I know have done 135.

I've met a lot of furloughed 121 pilots anxious to fly 135 when the bills start piling and the income isn't there. It's interesting to see the hands that brush away the riff raff suddenly come back with the palm turned upward.

Use caution with that arrogance. Raise the nose too high, and it snows on the brain. Don't let it freeze. You might need it one day.

Lockheed
12-07-2018, 06:02 PM
Most of the pilots I know have done 135.

I've met a lot of furloughed 121 pilots anxious to fly 135 when the bills start piling and the income isn't there. It's interesting to see the hands that brush away the riff raff suddenly come back with the palm turned upward.

Use caution with that arrogance. Raise the nose too high, and it snows on the brain. Don't let it freeze. You might need it one day.

Barkin up the wrong tree there Johnny

JohnBurke
12-07-2018, 06:57 PM
What tree is that, brightspark?

No Land 3
12-07-2018, 09:27 PM
It's not about your ego, it's about what the people doing the hiring want to see. 121 ops like to hire pilots flying 121.
With that said, K4 hires a lot of 135 guys.

Adlerdriver
12-08-2018, 05:08 AM
Most of the pilots I know have done 135.Based on the laundry list of 135 jobs you posted for us, doesnít that kind of make sense. :p
Most of the pilots I know are/were in the military. Funny how that works. ;)

BFMthisA10
12-08-2018, 06:23 AM
What tree is that, brightspark?

Leo Morton: Ed, can you take that Delta?
Ed Clabes: No, I can't take the Delta, my airspace is finite.
Barry Plotkin: Uh-oh, Ed's going down the drain.
Ed Clabes: I am not going down the drain.
Barry Plotkin: Oh yes you are. It happens every time you use the term "finite."

Canít help but think of this scene whenever JB uses the term ďbrightsparkĒ. ::shrug::

JohnBurke
12-08-2018, 02:12 PM
Based on the laundry list of 135 jobs you posted for us, doesnít that kind of make sense. :p
Most of the pilots I know are/were in the military. Funny how that works. ;)

I know. Military guys tend to know mostly military guys.

I've worked in most areas of the industry, far from just 135, but most of the 121 guys I work with have 135 experience. Many of the fire guys I've worked with have 135 experience. Many of the corporate guys I've worked with have 135 experience.

With the exception of the kids who run from instructing to a regional job, and military aviators (the two groups with the narrowest background), most out there have 135 experience. For a very long time it's been where people went after instructing.

To suggest one needs 121 experience to get hired into 121 flying is ridiculous. It's absolutely untrue. in the Cargo world, there are a lot of pilots who get hired who have no prior 121 experience, and let's not forget that military aviators separating to their first airline typically have no civil experience at all.

Locke
12-08-2018, 03:53 PM
let's not forget that military aviators separating to their first airline typically have no civil experience at all.

So what? Are you saying military pilots arenít good pilots?

Adlerdriver
12-08-2018, 06:04 PM
So what? Are you saying military pilots arenít good pilots?Ahhh jeeez :rolleyes: Now you're gonna get called bright spark.
That's not what he was saying, but I'll let JB clue you in just because it'll be fun to watch. :D

JohnBurke
12-09-2018, 12:32 AM
So what? Are you saying military pilots arenít good pilots?

I said nothing of the kind.

Perhaps it's the plain english that tripped you up, or perhaps you're too busy making assumptions. READ.

TiredSoul
12-09-2018, 03:01 AM
So what? Are you saying military pilots arenít good pilots?

Well...for starters thereís nothing brief about a military aviator briefing.

Locke
12-09-2018, 07:01 AM
I said nothing of the kind.

Perhaps it's the plain english that tripped you up, or perhaps you're too busy making assumptions. READ.

Haha nicely done. I was bored and threw out thinly veiled bait to see what would happen. Only 1 person decided to jump on board.



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