Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : Probationary Checkride


CrowneVic
12-04-2018, 12:19 PM
Tried geiting some info on the general thread, but nothing definitive, so moving it here.

Has anyone done this probationary checkride, recently? I am getting conflicting info with respect to whether this is a full AQP re-qualification event, or if it is more of a SV/PV event.

This is nowhere near my base month, so it is being scheduled way in advance of when I would be due.

If anyone has gone through the process recently and can provide specific details of what is involved, study guidance, etc., those of us going through would appreciate it.

Yes, I did check the training section of the website. There is absolutely nothing about it listed there.

Thank you.


Houpilot2001
12-04-2018, 12:22 PM
Tried geiting some info on the general thread, but nothing definitive, so moving it here.

Has anyone done this probationary checkride, recently? I am getting conflicting info with respect to whether this is a full AQP re-qualification event, or if it is more of a SV/PV event.

This is nowhere near my base month, so it is being scheduled way in advance of when I would be due.

If anyone has gone through the process recently and can provide specific details of what is involved, study guidance, etc., those of us going through would appreciate it.

Yes, I did check the training section of the website. There is absolutely nothing about it listed there.

Thank you.

My probie ride(hire date) a year ago was just an SV/PV at the school house. Then my recurrent was 4 months later. It was a pleasure having 3 orals in 12 months.

Others from my same sim class had their probie ride congruent with their first recurrent (six months early for some odd reason).

CrowneVic
12-04-2018, 12:37 PM
My probie ride(hire date) a year ago was just an SV/PV at the school house. Then my recurrent was 4 months later. It was a pleasure having 3 orals in 12 months.

Others from my same sim class had their probie ride congruent with their first recurrent (six months early for some odd reason).

Thanks. Exactly what I'm trying to figure out. Sounds like it could go either way, SV/PV, or full-blown recurrent.

Sure would be a nice thing to know/be able to find out.


Cyio
12-04-2018, 12:41 PM
Tried geiting some info on the general thread, but nothing definitive, so moving it here.

Has anyone done this probationary checkride, recently? I am getting conflicting info with respect to whether this is a full AQP re-qualification event, or if it is more of a SV/PV event.

This is nowhere near my base month, so it is being scheduled way in advance of when I would be due.

If anyone has gone through the process recently and can provide specific details of what is involved, study guidance, etc., those of us going through would appreciate it.

Yes, I did check the training section of the website. There is absolutely nothing about it listed there.

Thank you.

I was a late 2016 new hire and I did a schoolhouse sv/pv in November the following year.

After that, I went to recurrent in March or April of 2017 and at that point, they I still had to do a probationary ride along with recurrent. So another oral.

I think they do a “contractual” probation ride before the twelve months but the real one as far as they are concerned is when you do recurrent.

Grabo172
12-04-2018, 04:27 PM
Dec 2017 hire and I just did mine last month. It was a full R12 recurrent and your base month will reset.

CrowneVic
12-04-2018, 05:51 PM
Dec 2017 hire and I just did mine last month. It was a full R12 recurrent and your base month will reset.

Great info! Thank you. I guess I should expect R12 as well, since it sounds like everyone is getting the R12 program in 2019.

Also, isn't your first AQP re-qual always R12, then alternating thereafter?

Grabo172
12-04-2018, 05:56 PM
Also, isn't your first AQP re-qual always R12, then alternating thereafter?
As far as I know, yes.

BigZ
12-04-2018, 06:56 PM
Great info! Thank you. I guess I should expect R12 as well, since it sounds like everyone is getting the R12 program in 2019.

Also, isn't your first AQP re-qual always R12, then alternating thereafter?
Not necessarily.
I see some of the crj guys getting r24 for their first recurrent

RawHide
12-05-2018, 02:49 AM
Also, isn't your first AQP re-qual always R12, then alternating thereafter?

No you can do either R12 or R 24 the first time the. Alternating after that. With that said everything will be R12 in 2019.

Pedro4President
12-05-2018, 03:20 AM
No you can do either R12 or R 24 the first time the. Alternating after that. With that said everything will be R12 in 2019.

You must have some inside knowledge that no one else has. Everyone doing R12 in 2019? Crazy!! Now I bet you are going to say we are going to do an extra day of sim too?

wiz5422
12-05-2018, 04:36 AM
You must have some inside knowledge that no one else has. Everyone doing R12 in 2019? Crazy!! Now I bet you are going to say we are going to do an extra day of sim too?


Don't be jealous, he is right with day 3 being EET or in layman terms extended envelope training.

Captain Kirk
12-05-2018, 04:55 AM
I think you missed Pedro's tongue-in-cheekness 😎

DanRoman
12-05-2018, 06:25 AM
I was a late 2016 new hire and I did a schoolhouse sv/pv in November the following year.

After that, I went to recurrent in March or April of 2017 and at that point, they I still had to do a probationary ride along with recurrent. So another oral.

I think they do a “contractual” probation ride before the twelve months but the real one as far as they are concerned is when you do recurrent.

Got a contract reference? Pretty sure the contract says you’re off probation at the completion of 1 year of service and the “probation ride” is a company creation. Same goes for going into the CPO to “get off probation”. As far as the contract is concerned you’re off probation and have union protection at 12 months, hence the company’s “probie ride” typically being scheduled prior to 12 months while you are still fireable without union intervention.

bigtime209
12-05-2018, 06:38 AM
Got a contract reference? Pretty sure the contract says you’re off probation at the completion of 1 year of service and the “probation ride” is a company creation. Same goes for going into the CPO to “get off probation”. As far as the contract is concerned you’re off probation and have union protection at 12 months, hence the company’s “probie ride” typically being scheduled prior to 12 months while you are still fireable without union intervention.

Correct...

havick206
12-05-2018, 07:32 AM
The union has been helping many pilots still on probation facing termination or discipline matters.

The only difference is that if a termination does occur while on probation they can’t grieve and subsequently goto arbitration for a probationary Pilot.

In fact at the moment more probationary pilots are receiving union help than non probationary pilots.

Hope this clarifies a few things.

Houpilot2001
12-05-2018, 09:08 AM
As far as I know, yes.

Minee was r24

inky13
12-05-2018, 03:29 PM
Tried geiting some info on the general thread, but nothing definitive, so moving it here.

Has anyone done this probationary checkride, recently? I am getting conflicting info with respect to whether this is a full AQP re-qualification event, or if it is more of a SV/PV event.

This is nowhere near my base month, so it is being scheduled way in advance of when I would be due.

If anyone has gone through the process recently and can provide specific details of what is involved, study guidance, etc., those of us going through would appreciate it.

Yes, I did check the training section of the website. There is absolutely nothing about it listed there.

Thank you.


In the AQP Student Handbook, there's a list of contacts for the Training Dept./Planners. The planners usually notify you of your specific event (R12 vs R24) but if you didn't get it, try sending them an email. If no response, try sending an email to a training manager. They'd be able to help you figure out what you got.


If it so happens to be in 2019 and will be a full CQ, then yes, it will be the new CQ R12 2019. The AQP Student Handbook explains what that entails.

Livingtofly89
12-06-2018, 04:02 PM
I’m curious what this looks like? Copy and paste of study guide questions perhaps?

EchoEcho
12-06-2018, 06:36 PM
My probie ride(hire date) a year ago was just an SV/PV at the school house. Then my recurrent was 4 months later. It was a pleasure having 3 orals in 12 months.

Others from my same sim class had their probie ride congruent with their first recurrent (six months early for some odd reason).

If they came in 6 months early it was probably a Special Tracking event due to an Unsat MV or LOE

wiz5422
12-07-2018, 04:34 AM
I’m curious what this looks like? Copy and paste of study guide questions perhaps?

That would be to easy.....Got to study a little more this year.

NoValueAviator
12-07-2018, 04:41 AM
"List all the composite airframe parts."

"What is the width of the lavatory opening with the door removed in centimeters"

"What is the minimum Brinnell hardness specification of the N1 fan blades?"

BigZ
12-07-2018, 04:49 AM
"List all the composite airframe parts."

"What is the width of the lavatory opening with the door removed in centimeters"

"What is the minimum Brinnell hardness specification of the N1 fan blades?"
"Weight of the APU battery"

Houpilot2001
12-07-2018, 05:21 AM
If they came in 6 months early it was probably a Special Tracking event due to an Unsat MV or LOE

This makes sense, now that you mention this. But at the same time, why do they get 2 events and those of us who don't right get 3. Guess that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

Livingtofly89
12-07-2018, 06:09 AM
"List all the composite airframe parts."

"What is the width of the lavatory opening with the door removed in centimeters"

"What is the minimum Brinnell hardness specification of the N1 fan blades?"
Lol. Hilarious!!!!

pitchattitude
12-07-2018, 06:21 AM
How many rivets are there?

How much does a spool of flight line hold?

Bruno82
12-07-2018, 06:28 AM
What color is the wiring behind the overhead panel?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Captain Kirk
12-07-2018, 06:40 AM
How many alcohol hand wipes are required in the lav when the sink is in-op?

Jamesthunder
12-07-2018, 06:55 AM
How many alcohol hand wipes are required in the lav when the sink is in-op?

Where should I turn in my wings?

crj700
12-07-2018, 12:46 PM
"List all the composite airframe parts."

"What is the width of the lavatory opening with the door removed in centimeters"

"What is the minimum Brinnell hardness specification of the N1 fan blades?"

You guys laugh, but years ago those were the type of questions asked on the 145. EX, "How many light bulbs are in the cabin wing exit light?"

NoValueAviator
12-07-2018, 03:11 PM
I don't even remember how many N1 fan blades there are.

AQP baby I guess.

nimslow
12-09-2018, 05:10 AM
You guys laugh, but years ago those were the type of questions asked on the 145. EX, "How many light bulbs are in the cabin wing exit light?"

I remember back in the day, being asked to list ALL the cabin emergency lights, list and location of all the cabin emergency equipment. "How many primary and secondary windings in the PMA?" List everything on the engine accessory gearbox. I don't miss that stuff at all.

NoValueAviator
12-09-2018, 05:25 AM
I got hit with everything on the accessory gearbox and cabin emergency equipment too. Must've been doing good.

wiz5422
12-09-2018, 06:14 AM
I got hit with everything on the accessory gearbox and cabin emergency equipment too. Must've been doing good.

I agree it is a different time now, but I wish we could find a happy medium. Most who go through long term AQP don't have anywhere near the knowledge or understand of the systems they use to have. Don't even get me started on performance now.

nimslow
12-09-2018, 07:03 AM
I got hit with everything on the accessory gearbox and cabin emergency equipment too. Must've been doing good.

During my last two hour pc oral, before I left I was asked that by one of the infamous check airman on the 145. When I answered "accessories" I thought his head would explode.

I never could get anyone to tell me why they thought that, or the PMA windings was critical knowledge.

bigtime209
12-09-2018, 07:37 AM
During my last two hour pc oral, before I left I was asked that by one of the infamous check airman on the 145. When I answered "accessories" I thought his head would explode.

I never could get anyone to tell me why they thought that, or the PMA windings was critical knowledge.

Hahaha...was it the A, B or C?

bigtime209
12-09-2018, 07:38 AM
I agree it is a different time now, but I wish we could find a happy medium. Most who go through long term AQP don't have anywhere near the knowledge or understand of the systems they use to have. Don't even get me started on performance now.

All of this^^^^

Cyio
12-09-2018, 11:10 AM
I agree it is a different time now, but I wish we could find a happy medium. Most who go through long term AQP don't have anywhere near the knowledge or understand of the systems they use to have. Don't even get me started on performance now.

The reason is because the FAA feels there isn't any significant improvement in the tasks that a pilot needs to perform these days by having the ability to rebuild the airplane by scratch.

I have always been pragmatic in this sense. If I cant touch it, interact with it or fix it from the cockpit, there is little reason for me to know how it works above the rudimentary information. I mean, knowing how many bolts hold engine together is wasted information that I could better use elsewhere.

They should get away from system heavy knowledge and focus more on real world scenario training as that does far more to enlighten modern pilots that knowing the gearbox crap.

Anyway, thats my take. I only have so much room in training to absorb stuff, prioritize it with stuff that I actually need to know.

moon
12-09-2018, 12:54 PM
The reason is because the FAA feels there isn't any significant improvement in the tasks that a pilot needs to perform these days by having the ability to rebuild the airplane by scratch.

I have always been pragmatic in this sense. If I cant touch it, interact with it or fix it from the cockpit, there is little reason for me to know how it works above the rudimentary information. I mean, knowing how many bolts hold engine together is wasted information that I could better use elsewhere.

They should get away from system heavy knowledge and focus more on real world scenario training as that does far more to enlighten modern pilots that knowing the gearbox crap.

Anyway, thats my take. I only have so much room in training to absorb stuff, prioritize it with stuff that I actually need to know.

Everyone keeps bringing up the gearbox. That to me is solid knowledge to have. Maybe not to the mechanics of it, but if you lose an engine you lose everything in that gear box. And let me tell you it's. HEAP OF stuff!

NoValueAviator
12-09-2018, 12:58 PM
Truth be told I barely remember ANY of that stuff. Gonna have to cram hard for recurrent, but since I'm on permanent never-fly reserve it shouldn't be a problem.

highfarfast
12-09-2018, 02:36 PM
Everyone keeps bringing up the gearbox. That to me is solid knowledge to have. Maybe not to the mechanics of it, but if you lose an engine you lose everything in that gear box. And let me tell you it's. HEAP OF stuff!

While I agree with the sentiment of Cyio's post above yours (not word for word), the gearbox is a bad example.

nimslow
12-09-2018, 04:59 PM
Pretty much every major airline has gotten away from heavy systems knowledge, and focuses on operational knowledge. Here at the mother ship, I've never been asked the kind of systems questions we used to get at Eagle. On the 737 we have eliminated all the memory items (the Bus still has one, I believe). When I first got here, and asked if I should be studying the locations of the cabin emergency equipment, I was told "why would you do that? there is a chart in the QRH if you think you need to find something back there".

My issue with the gearbox question on the 145 was always, why should I care?

Is there a QRH procedure for engine accessory gearbox failure? (there wasn't the last time I flew it, but that was pushing 10 years ago). Will you ever see an EICAS message "ENG 1/2 ACC GEAR BOX FAIL"? Again, the answer was no back then.

You will get some other messages, the airplane will prioritize them, you will do the appropriate checklists, and the QRH will let you know about systems lost and any follow up items. Why complicate things unnecessarily?

bigtime209
12-09-2018, 05:43 PM
Everyone keeps bringing up the gearbox. That to me is solid knowledge to have. Maybe not to the mechanics of it, but if you lose an engine you lose everything in that gear box. And let me tell you it's. HEAP OF stuff!

I see what you did there...

pitchattitude
12-09-2018, 06:12 PM
I have been an instructor and examiner for years. While I do ask systems questions, my line of thought was why do you push, pull or press that control and do you know what happens when you do.

As far as the gear box question, it is still fair game. Whether or not it gets asked, ill have to get back to y’all in a few weeks...

highfarfast
12-09-2018, 06:36 PM
... my line of thought was why do you push, pull or press that control and do you know what happens when you do...

This is my line of thought as well in relation to cockpit duties. We should know these things. Gear box? It's a part of these things.

Also, knowing systems well enough to know what you're looking at and for when you're doing the preflight, that's also important.

But no, we shouldn't know how to build the airplane and memorizing details like how many N1 fan blades there are is wasted time because I can tell if a blade is missing without knowing the total number... and a lot of other dumb crap.


And I know how many N1 fan blades there are on my airframe because I was told in advance the guy that did my sv would ask that (and he did). But I've never once counted the blades during any walk-around... if one is missing, you'll know when you look.

EchoEcho
12-10-2018, 05:01 PM
I have been an instructor and examiner for years. While I do ask systems questions, my line of thought was why do you push, pull or press that control and do you know what happens when you do.

As far as the gear box question, it is still fair game. Whether or not it gets asked, ill have to get back to y’all in a few weeks...

As another I/E, I have the same philosophy, what do the buttons do and what do the messages mean. I avoid the gearbox question in favor of more ‘controls and indicators’ questions. The guidance we are handed down is 2 questions per system.

SilentLurker
12-10-2018, 05:22 PM
If they came in 6 months early it was probably a Special Tracking event due to an Unsat MV or LOE



Unsat SV/PV, and/or pink slip-LOE will for sure get someone into the Special Tracking program. It’s all written in the AQP student guide in comply for anyone looking for more information on that.

SilentLurker
12-10-2018, 05:27 PM
Everyone keeps bringing up the gearbox. That to me is solid knowledge to have. Maybe not to the mechanics of it, but if you lose an engine you lose everything in that gear box. And let me tell you it's. HEAP OF stuff!



That’s why u have 2 engines...

If I lost an engine in flight I’m not thinking about the accessory gearbox! I’m thinking FORD.


Next question please.... Thanks.


Yes, thank God we’re living in a safest period of Aviation history. Overall AQP is making smarter crew oriented pilots, not dick measuring sticks of the mundane pilots.

EchoEcho
12-10-2018, 05:38 PM
Everyone keeps bringing up the gearbox. That to me is solid knowledge to have. Maybe not to the mechanics of it, but if you lose an engine you lose everything in that gear box. And let me tell you it's. HEAP OF stuff!

Just playing devils advocate here, no offense intended to your point of view....

Hydraulic pump- still have the electric pump and the priority valve to help, so who cares
Electric Generators- still have 3 others, so who cares
Air Turbine Starter- don’t care unless I’m gonna restart the engine
PMA- don’t care because the FADEC is still powered but the engine is off anyway and the igniter only needs power if I’m gonna restart so who cares
Oil Pump- again who cares unless I restart the engine
FPMU- also who cares unless I’m gonna restart

So what am I loosing and why do I need to memorize what’s on the accessory gearbox?

E190 Driver
12-10-2018, 06:45 PM
This thread is almost getting back to the old days of the lounge.

For you those who do not know what the lounge is ask your gummer CA's...

:)

NoValueAviator
12-11-2018, 06:57 AM
I wonder what they ask the 175 guys.

Houpilot2001
12-11-2018, 08:49 AM
I wonder what they ask the 175 guys.

Nothing like this.

bigtime209
12-11-2018, 04:02 PM
I wonder what they ask the 175 guys.

"If you pull back on the yoke, do the houses get bigger or smaller?"

pitchattitude
12-11-2018, 04:30 PM
"If you pull back on the yoke, do the houses get bigger or smaller?"
If the AUTO PILOT pulls back the yoke...

Houpilot2001
12-11-2018, 05:45 PM
If the AUTO PILOT pulls back the yoke...

Both wrong...if the AUTO THROTTLES pull back.

BigZ
12-11-2018, 05:58 PM
Both wrong...if the AUTO THROTTLES pull back.

Declare emergency?

TransWorld
12-11-2018, 06:25 PM
"If you pull back on the yoke, do the houses get bigger or smaller?"

And now which is sharper, one, or two? Again, one, two?

Houpilot2001
12-11-2018, 07:55 PM
Declare emergency?

Jesus take the wheel