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View Full Version : Atlas / Southern


boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 09:22 AM
We are hiring !! Need all the bodies we can find. Come on over, the water is warm.

- 21 day trips around the world. If you want, you can bid back to back for 40 days on the road.
- 4.85 trip rig ( not per day ) half day = half pay.
- Day / night patterns
- day sleeping
- ready reserve from 3am - 9am ( no sleep rooms )
- Union Assement of $50 bucks a month mandatory
- 5 year upgrade on 767
- 1 year upgrade on 737 ( all nighters all the time ) 20 hours a month flying. Need 1k pic before upgrade.
- not a time building airline.
- Min guaranteed 62 hours.
- vacation & training months 62 hours. No way to break 62 unless working on days off
- DH to Asia on the 747 ( 4.85 ) hours of pay
- Atlas has deal with AA and Delta for ultra deep discounted fares. Not easy to accrue points and miles now.
- Most hotels crew member doesn't keep points.
- Plan on 1600 per month for first 5 months as new hire.
- OT is seniority based. New hires rarely get OT.

- We need all hands on deck. Come on over !!


nitefr8dog
12-07-2018, 09:28 AM
We are hiring !! Need all the bodies we can find. Come on over, the water is warm.

- 21 day trips around the world. If you want, you can bid back to back for 40 days on the road.
- 4.85 trip rig ( not per day ) half day = half pay.
- Day / night patterns
- day sleeping
- ready reserve from 3am - 9am ( no sleep rooms )
- Union Assement of $50 bucks a month mandatory
- 5 year upgrade on 767
- 1 year upgrade on 737 ( all nighters all the time ) 20 hours a month flying. Need 1k pic before upgrade.
- not a time building airline.
- Min guaranteed 62 hours.
- vacation & training months 62 hours. No way to break 62 unless working on days off
- DH to Asia on the 747 ( 4.85 ) hours of pay
- Atlas has deal with AA and Delta for ultra deep discounted fares. Not easy to accrue points and miles now.
- Most hotels crew member doesn't keep points.
- Plan on 1600 per month for first 5 months as new hire.
- OT is seniority based. New hires rarely get OT.

- We need all hands on deck. Come on over !!
Reading that sounds like as much fun as shoving a pencil through your eardrum...sounds alot like working at ABX

JohnBurke
12-07-2018, 09:55 AM
We are hiring !! Need all the bodies we can find. Come on over, the water is warm.

- 21 day trips around the world. If you want, you can bid back to back for 40 days on the road.
- 4.85 trip rig ( not per day ) half day = half pay.
- Day / night patterns
- day sleeping
- ready reserve from 3am - 9am ( no sleep rooms )
- Union Assement of $50 bucks a month mandatory
- 5 year upgrade on 767
- 1 year upgrade on 737 ( all nighters all the time ) 20 hours a month flying. Need 1k pic before upgrade.
- not a time building airline.
- Min guaranteed 62 hours.
- vacation & training months 62 hours. No way to break 62 unless working on days off
- DH to Asia on the 747 ( 4.85 ) hours of pay
- Atlas has deal with AA and Delta for ultra deep discounted fares. Not easy to accrue points and miles now.
- Most hotels crew member doesn't keep points.
- Plan on 1600 per month for first 5 months as new hire.
- OT is seniority based. New hires rarely get OT.

- We need all hands on deck. Come on over !!

That was tongue in cheek and meant to turn people away, right?

If not, you might want to reassess the selling points.


Jurassic Jet
12-07-2018, 10:34 AM
That was tongue in cheek and meant to turn people away, right?

If not, you might want to reassess the selling points.


Your sarcasm detector needs a shot of deice fluid. :D

LotsaTypes
12-07-2018, 10:38 AM
Yep....the water is fine!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=An55GOPXn_M

RyeMex
12-07-2018, 11:12 AM
I thought the requirement was that you couldn’t recruit for the company unless you hadn’t started OE yet?

Reactivity
12-07-2018, 11:50 AM
Yep....the water is fine!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=An55GOPXn_M

Is she part of the deal?

Birdsmash
12-07-2018, 01:39 PM
Awesome! Southern is getting 747s back and adding 767s? Pretty soon we will be bigger than Atlas. Lol

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 01:55 PM
Awesome! Southern is getting 747s back and adding 767s? Pretty soon we will be bigger than Atlas. Lol

Yes! Southern is the place to be. We also have same pay scale for years 1-4 on the FO side.

But it doesn't matter. You will be a captain in 2 years. Lol. The only problem. You need 1k PIC. @ 20 hours a month. You do the math

MySaabStory
12-07-2018, 02:34 PM
Is the international DH business or better?

Twin Wasp
12-07-2018, 02:55 PM
- vacation & training months 62 hours. No way to break 62 unless working on days off


You left out call in sick for three days and you're down to guarantee.

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 03:31 PM
You left out call in sick for three days and you're down to guarantee.

Yes. Oh- 75 hour line. They put you on R1. 62 hours BITACHES

CCpounder
12-07-2018, 03:44 PM
Yes! Southern is the place to be. We also have same pay scale for years 1-4 on the FO side.

But it doesn't matter. You will be a captain in 2 years. Lol. The only problem. You need 1k PIC. @ 20 hours a month. You do the math


Pretty sure it’s 1000 PIC, OR 1500 SIC, with 500 at the company

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 03:45 PM
Is the international DH business or better?

When they commercial you, it's BIZ class. However, seeing we are a global airline. I would say MAYBE once or twice a year you will get BIZ class intl. Otherwise, it's a freighter for you, and no you won't be getting that bunk- that's for the operating crew.

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 03:48 PM
Pretty sure it’s 1000 PIC, OR 1500 SIC, with 500 at the company

We do need bodies ! One great advantage, once we merge the seniority lists, all the junior southern captains on the 737, have the opportunity of being bumped from their seats for senior Atlas Pilots.

Come on over. We need pilots. Come get your 62 hours while it's hot !!!

CCpounder
12-07-2018, 03:56 PM
We do need bodies ! One great advantage, once we merge the seniority lists, all the junior southern captains on the 737, have the opportunity of being bumped from their seats for senior Atlas Pilots.

Come on over. We need pilots. Come get your 62 hours while it's hot !!!


Welcome to the airlines

thesandbox
12-07-2018, 04:07 PM
Welcome to the airlines


What's up Charlie?

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 04:07 PM
Welcome to the airlines

Eh. I don't know about that. Delta, FedEx, UPS, United, SWA, AA, Alaska, Spirit, Frontier, Hawaiian, K4, OMNI, and most the of regionals- All seem to have new CBA's. In fact, Delta and AA are ready for their next CBA, and I've been told the 777 will go for 400 an hour.

I'm sure Atlas and Southern are days away !! Come on. We need bodies !! 80 bucks an hour an 62 hours a month !!

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 04:07 PM
What's up Charlie?

My thoughts

CCpounder
12-07-2018, 04:22 PM
Eh. I don't know about that. Delta, FedEx, UPS, United, SWA, AA, Alaska, Spirit, Frontier, Hawaiian, K4, OMNI, and most the of regionals- All seem to have new CBA's. In fact, Delta and AA are ready for their next CBA, and I've been told the 777 will go for 400 an hour.

I'm sure Atlas and Southern are days away !! Come on. We need bodies !! 80 bucks an hour an 62 hours a month !!


In all honesty, not trying to be a d*ck, what’s keeping you here? I’m all for people leaving / not getting hired to show Atlas management how badly we need a new contract. This is night and day from my last job doing Ad-Hoc cargo though, so I’m pretty content for the time being

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 04:25 PM
One more point !

We have these really great trips.

Day 1:
1230am wake up call. 330am departure.
CVG-STL-XXX. Land at 8am.
Sleep ( airport hotel )
Day 2 ( really day 1 ) 6pm Wakeup call.
XXX-STL-CVG. Arrive @ 2am.
Day 3. See day 1
Day 4. See day 2
Day 5-9999. See Day 1.

The trips are really sweet. You show up in the middle of the night after being awake all day. Fly 1-3 legs. Sleep in the middle of the day, and repeat. For your entire time on the 737!!!

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 04:36 PM
In all honesty, not trying to be a d*ck, what’s keeping you here? I’m all for people leaving / not getting hired to show Atlas management how badly we need a new contract. This is night and day from my last job doing Ad-Hoc cargo though, so I’m pretty content for the time being

I'm here for the catering, the night flying, the min pay, the lowest pay in the industry, the constant schedule changes, the imputed income, R3 at the hub @
3am, the non GPS, non CPDLC ocean flying, the HAZMAT, 1am wakeups, and beers with my buds.


How about you ?

ps2sunvalley
12-07-2018, 04:42 PM
I'm here for the catering, the night flying, the min pay, the lowest pay in the industry, the constant schedule changes, the imputed income, R3 at the hub @
3am, the non GPS, non CPDLC ocean flying, the HAZMAT, 1am wakeups, and beers with my buds.


How about you ?

Sounds like military strategic airlift. Just kidding, we have GPS, and CPDLC works most of the time.

boeingdvr
12-07-2018, 04:44 PM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FswmNSov_JY

CCpounder
12-07-2018, 04:45 PM
I'm here for the catering, the night flying, the min pay, the lowest pay in the industry, the constant schedule changes, the imputed income, R3 at the hub @
3am, the non GPS, non CPDLC ocean flying, the HAZMAT, 1am wakeups, and beers with my buds.

How about you ?


I’m here because I was tired of doing 28+ hour duty days with only 6-8 hours of block time, loading my own 20,000-30,000lbs of freight, no catering, less pay, flying with a Trimble GPS, on call 24/7 with a 20 minute show time, paying for my own crash pad, and a few other minor things. I didn’t have the time for big K or other cargo operations and I didn’t wanna go back to pax flying. So I guess you can say this was my only option. I don’t regret my decision. I like flying around the world and getting paid to do it. Could it be better? Of course, but, I know it could be much worse

useless
12-07-2018, 04:58 PM
Flying around the world can be lonely enough without alienating yourself from all your coworkers.

Luckily the 73 doesn't fly around the world. It only goes about 60° left and right.

Lawn Boy
12-07-2018, 07:54 PM
Pretty sure it’s 1000 PIC, OR 1500 SIC, with 500 at the company

And also 2500 hrs in group II aircraft, iirc.

Elevation
12-08-2018, 01:03 AM
I think guys are responding to the new recruiting ads on this site. I also used to fly single pilot freight and do a lot of loading and unloading. We've probably been to a number of same places, etc. Of course, so have a lot of other guys. I think most of us have much more in common than we think.

CandlerKid
12-08-2018, 05:04 AM
Not directed at anybody here, but just a general observation from my time at Atlas. We all worked crappy jobs at some point. If you want a better contract you need to be looking across the ramp at the other international widebody pilots and asking “why don’t I make as much as they do flying the same plane?” not looking at the C208 and thinking “man this is better than that!” 90% get it and are doing everything they can for a new contract but it’s an uphill battle convincing some there that they are worth more (see pre-OE 737 pilots for example). Frustrating to hear if you’re going there hoping for a new CBA and have it be the final career stop.

boeingdvr
12-08-2018, 05:35 AM
Not directed at anybody here, but just a general observation from my time at Atlas. We all worked crappy jobs at some point. If you want a better contract you need to be looking across the ramp at the other international widebody pilots and asking “why don’t I make as much as they do flying the same plane?” not looking at the C208 and thinking “man this is better than that!” 90% get it and are doing everything they can for a new contract but it’s an uphill battle convincing some there that they are worth more (see pre-OE 737 pilots for example). Frustrating to hear if you’re going there hoping for a new CBA and have it be the final career stop.

Winner Winner.

WhipWhitaker
12-08-2018, 06:55 AM
Not directed at anybody here, but just a general observation from my time at Atlas. We all worked crappy jobs at some point. If you want a better contract you need to be looking across the ramp at the other international widebody pilots and asking “why don’t I make as much as they do flying the same plane?” not looking at the C208 and thinking “man this is better than that!” 90% get it and are doing everything they can for a new contract but it’s an uphill battle convincing some there that they are worth more (see pre-OE 737 pilots for example). Frustrating to hear if you’re going there hoping for a new CBA and have it be the final career stop.

All very good points. I would venture a guess that not a single person coming to Atlas/Southern these days comes with the intention of staying as their, “final career stop.” We will/have become the regionals of the freight world.

CandlerKid
12-08-2018, 09:43 AM
All very good points. I would venture a guess that not a single person coming to Atlas/Southern these days comes with the intention of staying as their, “final career stop.” We will/have become the regionals of the freight world.

Sad but true. Hoping for the best for the people who have been hearing that nightmare wake up call noise for years and years and deserve to get paid.

boeingdvr
12-10-2018, 07:15 AM
Based on new numbers and what I've been hearing from fellow pilots. A new hire today would be lucky to see 767 Captain in 6 years.

There are nearly 250 767 FO's in the 3-4 year mark waiting for their slots. There is currently no more 767 growth.

iropman
12-10-2018, 01:07 PM
I have a CJO and class date for Southern, but wondering what realistic upgrade time might look like? In the presentation they said about 1 1/2 yrs... But is that current news or old? I currently have over 1,000 hrs 121 from another carrier to fill that requirement.

I also have a CJO from another 121 operation that operates DC9's and they have indicated that I would be able to upgrade within a couple months after finishing OE.

Pluses and minuses to both jobs from my vantage point. Trying to figure out which one to take.

boeingdvr
12-10-2018, 01:12 PM
I have a CJO and class date for Southern, but wondering what realistic upgrade time might look like? In the presentation they said about 1 1/2 yrs... But is that current news or old? I currently have over 1,000 hrs 121 from another carrier to fill that requirement.

I also have a CJO from another 121 operation that operates DC9's and they have indicated that I would be able to upgrade within a couple months after finishing OE.

Pluses and minuses to both jobs from my vantage point. Trying to figure out which one to take.

We need all bodies. Our last new hire class had 2 people in it. That should tell you what you need to hear.

Upgrade could happen quick- but once we merge the seniority lists with Atlas, you're very likely to get bumped down to junior RSV FO.

Come on over !

iropman
12-10-2018, 01:41 PM
We need all bodies. Our last new hire class had 2 people in it. That should tell you what you need to hear.

Upgrade could happen quick- but once we merge the seniority lists with Atlas, you're very likely to get bumped down to junior RSV FO.

Come on over !


I was told once before that "upgrade could happen quick." Now upgrade is at 2 years from date of hire.

Back it up and show me that upgrade is currently happening 5-6 months after hire date (for those with 121 time to upgrade) and I'll gladly come over.

The only other downside for me is the training pay. Ouch! but I can suck that up if the quick upgrade is a reality

Sailfish234
12-10-2018, 02:01 PM
We need all bodies. Our last new hire class had 2 people in it. That should tell you what you need to hear.

Upgrade could happen quick- but once we merge the seniority lists with Atlas, you're very likely to get bumped down to junior RSV FO.

Come on over !

What you should be curious about is WHY only 2 people showed up. Do some homework on what is going on with Atlas/Southern. The recruiters will paint everything as sunshine and unicorns. Trust me it is far from the truth.

RyeMex
12-10-2018, 02:24 PM
I have a CJO and class date for Southern, but wondering what realistic upgrade time might look like? In the presentation they said about 1 1/2 yrs... But is that current news or old? I currently have over 1,000 hrs 121 from another carrier to fill that requirement.

I also have a CJO from another 121 operation that operates DC9's and they have indicated that I would be able to upgrade within a couple months after finishing OE.

Pluses and minuses to both jobs from my vantage point. Trying to figure out which one to take.

Recruiters at Atlas told me that I’d be a captain in 2 years. I’m now a 3rd year FO and at least another 2 years away from an upgrade. Be very suspicious about what any recruiter promises you.

If you can’t survive on FO pay for at least 4-5 years, I’d look elsewhere.

WhipWhitaker
12-10-2018, 02:37 PM
Recruiters at Atlas told me that I’d be a captain in 2 years. I’m now a 3rd year FO and at least another 2 years away from an upgrade. Be very suspicious about what any recruiter promises you.

If you can’t survive on FO pay for at least 4-5 years, I’d look elsewhere.


^ For those trying to make an informed decision, all this is correct. Upgrade on every fleet besides the 73 is 5+ years (assuming no growth, which is the safest assumption.) First year 50hr guarantee hurts, that being said, I spent 3 months of this year on 1st year pay, remainder on 2nd year pay and will just miss 100k by the end of December, plus another $11,500 in per diem. I did 1 extra trip, live in base. If you don’t live in base, the 17 days gets long or longer quick, be aware.

121guy
12-10-2018, 03:43 PM
We need all bodies. Our last new hire class had 2 people in it. That should tell you what you need to hear.

Upgrade could happen quick- but once we merge the seniority lists with Atlas, you're very likely to get bumped down to junior RSV FO.

Come on over !

I bet they’re gambling on being seat protected if they can get in to upgrade class before the merger happens.

iropman
12-10-2018, 06:06 PM
^ For those trying to make an informed decision, all this is correct. Upgrade on every fleet besides the 73 is 5+ years (assuming no growth, which is the safest assumption.) First year 50hr guarantee hurts, that being said, I spent 3 months of this year on 1st year pay, remainder on 2nd year pay and will just miss 100k by the end of December, plus another $11,500 in per diem. I did 1 extra trip, live in base. If you don’t live in base, the 17 days gets long or longer quick, be aware.


You must not be on the 737...
Still would like to know when the most junior captain was hired with Southern flying the 737 side.

thesandbox
12-10-2018, 06:12 PM
you'll need 1)2500 on larger group II a/c 41,000lb or more AND 1000PIC on those a/c or... 2)1500hr on those a/c and 500 as SIC at the company....and that will take you about 2 1/2 -3 years based on flying about 20-30 hr a month if you hold a line. If you come on with their hiring mins and haven't flown a larger aircraft then as you see you are looking at 5-7 years....with no pay raise until year 4.

atpcliff
12-10-2018, 06:33 PM
If you want some specific info, or have specific questions, feel free to contact me.

My opinion only:
737: The pay is so pitiful, I don't see how this makes sense. Maybe if you need a 737 type rating relatively soon...
767: The pay is terrible, especially for a 767. IF you live in CVG, or want to move there, then you can be home for a lot of nights, IF you do the DHL hub flying. If you can hold JFK, you can do a lot of pax flying all over the world.
777: The pay is awful (better than terrible). You go to about 6 destinations...over and over and over. You don't fly much.

WhipWhitaker
12-10-2018, 06:56 PM
You must not be on the 737...
Still would like to know when the most junior captain was hired with Southern flying the 737 side.

I am definitely not, however, looking at their seniority list...the JR 73 CA has a DOH of 06/17.

Biizii
05-21-2019, 07:45 AM
I make 4500/ month

RoundPeg
05-25-2019, 06:17 AM
So I’ve heard a recent rumor about Atlas/Southern that I find quite disturbing. I heard that your instructors are being as unhelpful as possible to New Hires and that your washout rate has increased dramatically. The intent, I was told, is to pressure management into a new contract.
Any truth to this, or is it just typical pilot bullsh*t?

JackStraw
05-25-2019, 06:30 AM
So I’ve heard a recent rumor about Atlas/Southern that I find quite disturbing. I heard that your instructors are being as unhelpful as possible to New Hires and that your washout rate has increased dramatically. The intent, I was told, is to pressure management into a new contract.
Any truth to this, or is it just typical pilot bullsh*t?

Instructors are typically company men with aspirations of management, so no, that’s not likely. More likely is that the FAA is putting pressure on them after the crash to stop forcing pilots through the mill and actually grade their performances honestly. Now, the lackluster training program plus very low experienced students is equaling hirer washout rates.

boeingdvr
05-25-2019, 06:33 AM
So I’ve heard a recent rumor about Atlas/Southern that I find quite disturbing. I heard that your instructors are being as unhelpful as possible to New Hires and that your washout rate has increased dramatically. The intent, I was told, is to pressure management into a new contract.
Any truth to this, or is it just typical pilot bullsh*t?

The instructors in Miami are more pro-company. But what I have seen- instructors are not helping students “get through” training. Self preservation, the instructors love their money, so they will do their job, and their job only.

If you can’t perform, or need help- look towards yourself.

Our unfortunate accident, had brought training to the fore front.

If you do make it through- A 21 day trip around the world a few times await!!

Come on and see for yourself, CALL HR TODAY!

CVG today, BAH tomorrow- or is that today again ??

Riverside
05-25-2019, 07:10 AM
The instructors in Miami are more pro-company. But what I have seen- instructors are not helping students “get through” training. Self preservation, the instructors love their money, so they will do their job, and their job only.

If you can’t perform, or need help- look towards yourself.

Our unfortunate accident, had brought training to the fore front.

If you do make it through- A 21 day trip around the world a few times await!!

Come on and see for yourself, CALL HR TODAY!

CVG today, BAH tomorrow- or is that today again ??

If you send me your resume, I'll send it over to K4 HR.

JonnyKnoxville
05-28-2019, 09:08 AM
So I’ve heard a recent rumor about Atlas/Southern that I find quite disturbing. I heard that your instructors are being as unhelpful as possible to New Hires and that your washout rate has increased dramatically. The intent, I was told, is to pressure management into a new contract.
Any truth to this, or is it just typical pilot bullsh*t?

The experience level of new hires has fallen drastically. Management was pressuring instructors to pass pilots through the system even though they did not meet or exceed FAA standards. The second accident gave the instructors the cover they needed to grade based on the FAA standards without fear of negative repercussions from management.

Hopefully, when the dirty laundry at Atlas is all aired out, certain individuals in management will end up in prison where they belong.

Sailfish234
05-30-2019, 05:37 AM
The experience level of new hires has fallen drastically. Management was pressuring instructors to pass pilots through the system even though they did not meet or exceed FAA standards. The second accident gave the instructors the cover they needed to grade based on the FAA standards without fear of negative repercussions from management.

Hopefully, when the dirty laundry at Atlas is all aired out, certain individuals in management will end up in prison where they belong.

AMEN.......

dogo
05-30-2019, 05:48 AM
Same thing is happening at ABX. Hire whoever can fog a mirror then put out in financial reports that there is no problem hiring qualified candidates. The stock would tube if investors had a clue.

RoundPeg
05-31-2019, 09:06 AM
If you send me your resume, I'll send it over to K4 HR.

Thanks, Riverside, but I have turned down several offers for an interview with you folks already. I have better things to do than waste my life working for a pittance at a lowly freight-dog carrier that cannot get its act together and merge with its lower cost carrier partner, Southern. Atlas’s future, if you guys can’t stop playing with yourselves, is a transfer of flying to Southern and the unemployment line for you. You’ll probably say you have job protection language in your contract that would prohibit that, and you’d be right, but just ask any Pan Am, DHL, or Comair pilot about job protection language and they’ll laugh in your face. Send me your resume and I will get you hired on over here, and we will see if you have “what it takes.”

WhipWhitaker
05-31-2019, 09:21 AM
Thanks, Riverside, but I have turned down several offers for an interview with you folks already. I have better things to do than waste my life working for a pittance at a lowly freight-dog carrier that cannot get its act together and merge with its lower cost carrier partner, Southern. Atlas’s future, if you guys can’t stop playing with yourselves, is a transfer of flying to Southern and the unemployment line for you. You’ll probably say you have job protection language in your contract that would prohibit that, and you’d be right, but just ask any Pan Am, DHL, or Comair pilot about job protection language and they’ll laugh in your face. Send me your resume and I will get you hired on over here, and we will see if you have “what it takes.”

Square Peg, Southern can barely cover its own flying, let alone anyone else’s. Also the person you were replying to was offering to send your resume to Kalitta, not Atlas/Southern...although you seem to have the density and anger required to be a pilot here.

Birdsmash
05-31-2019, 11:17 AM
Thanks, Riverside, but I have turned down several offers for an interview with you folks already. I have better things to do than waste my life working for a pittance at a lowly freight-dog carrier that cannot get its act together and merge with its lower cost carrier partner, Southern. Atlas’s future, if you guys can’t stop playing with yourselves, is a transfer of flying to Southern and the unemployment line for you. You’ll probably say you have job protection language in your contract that would prohibit that, and you’d be right, but just ask any Pan Am, DHL, or Comair pilot about job protection language and they’ll laugh in your face. Send me your resume and I will get you hired on over here, and we will see if you have “what it takes.”

Richard craniums need not apply. Thanks for considering Atlas/Southern anyways. 🖕🏻

tengssuuciurta
05-31-2019, 01:46 PM
Thanks, Riverside, but I have turned down several offers for an interview with you folks already. I have better things to do than waste my life working for a pittance at a lowly freight-dog carrier that cannot get its act together and merge with its lower cost carrier partner, Southern. Atlas’s future, if you guys can’t stop playing with yourselves, is a transfer of flying to Southern and the unemployment line for you. You’ll probably say you have job protection language in your contract that would prohibit that, and you’d be right, but just ask any Pan Am, DHL, or Comair pilot about job protection language and they’ll laugh in your face. Send me your resume and I will get you hired on over here, and we will see if you have “what it takes.”
wtf....

lol

Riverside
05-31-2019, 02:34 PM
Thanks, Riverside, but I have turned down several offers for an interview with you folks already. I have better things to do than waste my life working for a pittance at a lowly freight-dog carrier that cannot get its act together and merge with its lower cost carrier partner, Southern. Atlas’s future, if you guys can’t stop playing with yourselves, is a transfer of flying to Southern and the unemployment line for you. You’ll probably say you have job protection language in your contract that would prohibit that, and you’d be right, but just ask any Pan Am, DHL, or Comair pilot about job protection language and they’ll laugh in your face. Send me your resume and I will get you hired on over here, and we will see if you have “what it takes.”

Good chat. Even though I wasn't speaking to you.

arrrrree
05-31-2019, 04:28 PM
Is the schedule on the 76 only 16/14 or are there multiple types of schedules?

JonnyKnoxville
05-31-2019, 04:39 PM
Is the schedule on the 76 only 16/14 or are there multiple types of schedules?

If you don't get extended, it is actually 17 days plus gateway travel. So, that is 19 days away from home.

Some schedules are broken into two big chunks where you do not work all in one group of days.

JackStraw
05-31-2019, 04:41 PM
Is the schedule on the 76 only 16/14 or are there multiple types of schedules?

16/14? Dude, do some research in the Atlas Hiring thread and learn the very basics then get back to us.

arrrrree
05-31-2019, 04:45 PM
16/14? Dude, do some research in the Atlas Hiring thread and learn the very basics then get back to us.

Not sure why this comment is necessary, didn’t see a Atlas Hiring thread and just asked a question

4runner
05-31-2019, 05:46 PM
wtf....

lol

For real. This sounds like one of my temper tantrums. Not guilty!

boeingdvr
05-31-2019, 07:39 PM
Is the schedule on the 76 only 16/14 or are there multiple types of schedules?

Haha. 16/14

Try 20/10 21/9

Depending on your commute and being extended.

16/14. Yeah - if your Uber senior bidding RSV lines in base.

atpcliff
05-31-2019, 07:43 PM
Is the schedule on the 76 only 16/14 or are there multiple types of schedules?

I assume it is highly variable, depending on the base and the type of flying you do. On the 747, my schedules have ranged from a 1 day trip, to 34 days (I bid for two back-to-back patterns).

If you live near CVG, and do the 767 DHL hub turns or R3/R2 reserve you can be home all the time. I don't know what the newer Amazon schedules are like...

Any other specific questions PM me.

StandardBrief
06-04-2019, 11:40 AM
I saw your plane on the ramp in a particular overseas location yesterday. Did you guys drop off the stuff I ordered 2 months ago?

nitefreight
08-04-2019, 12:26 PM
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YHRoj9Z3ElViXeCaGgrWJhJUie-zQgyj/view?usp=sharing

wjcandee
08-04-2019, 02:25 PM
The motion is a nice effort, but it's a fair analysis that it isn't going to succeed. Such motions almost never do -- particularly the ones for en banc rehearing -- and there is nothing about this one that identifies the kind of objectively-clear error that would result in a rehearing by the panel, or the kind of super-important legal issue that might result in an en banc rehearing. IMHO, when you're asking for an en banc rehearing on anything other than something of super-important national significance that a member of the general public would think was important, you're just going through the motions in the hope that you win the lottery. It's a Hail Mary of significant order. It can't hurt, if you don't mind paying the legal fees, but it's not normally something you do with a rational expectation of success.

nitefreight
08-04-2019, 05:11 PM
It shouldn't be this way, but Atlas intentionally filed this case in DC for a reason. And it's apparent that forum shopping paid off in a big way. There is very little justice in our legal system.

wjcandee
08-04-2019, 07:24 PM
It shouldn't be this way, but Atlas intentionally filed this case in DC for a reason. And it's apparent that forum shopping paid off in a big way. There is very little justice in our legal system.

Generally in Federal Court, you look to the residence of the defendants when determining permissible venue, although you can also look to where a substantial portion of the actions giving rise to the suit occurred. 1224 is based in Wilmington, Ohio and the Teamsters Airline Division is based in DC. It's no surprise that a New York company represented by big firms would find it more convenient to litigate in DC rather than the Southern District of Ohio. If you're a bunch of lawyers and executives (on both sides), wouldn't you rather lodge and dine in DCi? Admittedly, the Federal Courthouse handling Clinton County cases is in Cincinnati rather than Bumpkinville, but still...

I don't think that SD Ohio or the Sixth Circuit are bastions of pro-pilot judges that the case was deprived of by the venue choice. I frankly think that, other than possibly being hometowned and having to hire local counsel outside of my law firm, I might prefer to be in the SD Ohio if I were an airline and perceived court sympathies were my sole deciding factor.

So, unless somebody got really-creative, the basic venue choices were DC or Cincinnati, and, me at least, I don't think that influenced the result.

nitefreight
08-05-2019, 08:24 AM
It's no surprise that a New York company represented by big firms would find it more convenient to litigate in DC rather than the Southern District of Ohio.

Actually, the captioned entity in the petition, Atlas Air, Inc., is not a New York corporation -- It's incorporated in Delaware.

NYS Department of State
Division of Corporations
Entity Information

The information contained in this database is current through August 2, 2019.
Selected Entity Name: ATLAS AIR, INC.
Selected Entity Status Information Current Entity Name: ATLAS AIR, INC.
DOS ID #: 1736154
Initial DOS Filing Date: JUNE 21, 1993
County: NASSAU
Jurisdiction: DELAWARE
Entity Type: FOREIGN BUSINESS CORPORATION
Current Entity Status: ACTIVE

wjcandee
08-05-2019, 08:43 AM
Actually, the captioned entity in the petition, Atlas Air, Inc., is not a New York corporation -- It's incorporated in Delaware.

You are absolutely correct. However, its principal place of business is Purchase, NY. Hence "SHOP", with the P meaning "Purchase". To avoid confusion, I probably should have said "a company with its headquarters located in New York", rather than "a New York company". Almost every publicly traded company is incorporated in Delaware, because that's where venture capitalists want you to incorporate.

Principal place of business, which here is New York, is all that matters for venue purposes regarding a plaintiff pursuant to 28 USC Sec. 1391(c)(2). My post was regarding something even more practical, however: the location of the headquarters and thus the primary executives, which here is New York. A bunch of guys from Westchester are most likely going to prefer the schwankier lodging and cuisine in DC over that of Cincinnati.

boeingdvr
08-05-2019, 09:15 AM
You are absolutely correct. However, its principal place of business is Purchase, NY. Hence "SHOP", with the P meaning "Purchase". To avoid confusion, I probably should have said "a company with its headquarters located in New York", rather than "a New York company". Almost every publicly traded company is incorporated in Delaware, because that's where venture capitalists want you to incorporate.

Principal place of business, which here is New York, is all that matters for venue purposes regarding a plaintiff pursuant to 28 USC Sec. 1391(c)(2). My post was regarding something even more practical, however: the location of the headquarters and thus the primary executives, which here is New York. A bunch of guys from Westchester are most likely going to prefer the schwankier lodging and cuisine in DC over that of Cincinnati.

What- knockback Knats off Vine next to the adult shop isn’t classy enough for $1500 an hour attorneys- **** would probably get done then.

wjcandee
08-05-2019, 09:25 AM
What- knockback Knats off Vine next to the adult shop isn’t classy enough for $1500 an hour attorneys- **** would probably get done then.

True that. I didn't mention DC's all-nude bars. One of the few places in America that can sell you a beer while you stare at writhing eye-level uncovered private parts from your chair. "Do as I say but not as I do." Although I'm sure the the place off Vine is nice...

Imafreakinstud
08-10-2019, 10:39 AM
Hey guys does anyone know how old the youngest 747 pilot at Atlas is?

kodiakallstar
08-10-2019, 11:43 AM
Hey guys does anyone know how old the youngest 747 pilot at Atlas is?

Probably 23 or 24 whatever the youngest possible age is. Not exactly an accomplishment. they took a job no one else with real qualifications and experience wanted but whatever good for them.

Twin Wasp
08-11-2019, 06:38 PM
We had a new hire that had to be the last one in the class to take his checkride. Had to wait for his 23rd birthday. Heard he went to Delta in under a year.

There are a couple 26 year olds on the last page of the seniority list.

minimwage4
08-12-2019, 04:51 PM
Supply and demand is an amazing thing. I remember a few years ago my FOs were biting their nails worried about whether they were going to get a class at atlas or go into a pool. I thought they were cool. In reality I guess they were walking into a sweatshop reading these atlas posts.

fr8ghtdawg
08-15-2019, 06:10 PM
So whats the plan now that Teamsters lost the Atlas arbitration today?

JackStraw
08-15-2019, 07:08 PM
So whats the plan now that Teamsters lost the Atlas arbitration today?

Delay some more until the economy sucks.

Turbine1
08-15-2019, 07:39 PM
So whats the plan now that Teamsters lost the Atlas arbitration today?

There’s been no official announcement that the Teamsters lost. Should the company win the arbitration then Atlas/Southern is finished as a company. Will the last pilot to resign please turn out the lights...

boeingdvr
08-16-2019, 04:34 AM
So whats the plan now that Teamsters lost the Atlas arbitration today?

Labor never beat mgmt. unless your walking..

No negotiations planned outside the 3 days in August- which will now be, this is your deal, take it or leave it. At which point the union may have to swallow the current CBA.

It will years before we see any pay raises.

Just this week we had 767 FO’s interviewing at ATI, Kallita, and even one regional.

Get your popcorn ready.

TiredSoul
08-16-2019, 02:53 PM
Paragraphs and punctuation bro...
It really does make a difference.

Riverside
08-16-2019, 03:46 PM
Paragraphs and punctuation bro...
It really does make a difference.

"Your" wrong....

boeingdvr
08-16-2019, 04:39 PM
Paragraphs and punctuation bro...
It really does make a difference.

Thanks “Bro”. I KUit sayin “Bro” in Midle Sckool

Radials Rule
08-16-2019, 05:01 PM
So whats the plan now that Teamsters lost the Atlas arbitration today?

Source?


...

boeingdvr
08-16-2019, 05:30 PM
Source?


...

Lots of rumors and insiders. Most credible- the Van Driver from the Hyatt to Boeing in Miami.

Atrasaty
08-17-2019, 12:30 PM
Not official.... But looks like we lost the Atlas arbitration too. Last piece in place to gut SCOPE and carve us up like a Christmas turkey with the big payday for the men in suits just around the corner. I'd like to say it was a good ride..... but it wasn't. Dumbest move I ever made.

sandman22
08-17-2019, 05:33 PM
Not official.... But looks like we lost the Atlas arbitration too. Last piece in place to gut SCOPE and carve us up like a Christmas turkey with the big payday for the men in suits just around the corner. I'd like to say it was a good ride..... but it wasn't. Dumbest move I ever made.

Carve us up how? And for what reason? Why would they get a big pay day for this?

boeingdvr
08-17-2019, 06:10 PM
Carve us up how? And for what reason? Why would they get a big pay day for this?

They can now buy anyone and everyone and merge the contracts, shift flying, whipsaw to their hearts contact.

sandman22
08-17-2019, 06:17 PM
They can now buy anyone and everyone and merge the contracts, shift flying, whipsaw to their hearts contact.

Ok, so, same thing they do now. But now we've got 9 months of required negotiations that are about to begin followed by months of waiting for the arbitrator to decide so... at least a year or probably much longer if it gets dragged out before we get an arbitrated contract?

wjcandee
08-18-2019, 12:45 AM
They can now buy anyone and everyone and merge the contracts, shift flying, whipsaw to their hearts contact.

I haven't looked at the provisions for a while, but isn't the fact that both carriers are represented by 1224 part of the reason they can do this? So that kind of narrows the field of who they could acquire to reproduce this result. Also, there aren't many carriers out there generally that they could acquire just to hold back the pilots, so it's a little more hypothetical than likely. Of course, with this management team, one does want as much protection as possible.

Jurassic Jet
08-18-2019, 03:25 AM
Also, there aren't many carriers out there generally that they could acquire just to hold back the pilots, so it's a little more hypothetical than likely.

Amerijet with its maxed out CA pay of $131k comes to mind.

boeingdvr
08-18-2019, 03:41 AM
I haven't looked at the provisions for a while, but isn't the fact that both carriers are represented by 1224 part of the reason they can do this? So that kind of narrows the field of who they could acquire to reproduce this result. Also, there aren't many carriers out there generally that they could acquire just to hold back the pilots, so it's a little more hypothetical than likely. Of course, with this management team, one does want as much protection as possible.

They only need one every 6-7 years. That’s easy enough.

I’d say we are two years away from a CBA. A new hire will never see -400 Captain, and upgrade on the 767 could be close to 10 years for a new hire today.

sandman22
08-18-2019, 03:49 AM
They only need one every 6-7 years. That’s easy enough.

Airlines could be created solely for that purpose with the knowledge that Atlas would pay a premium for it at the right time. AAWH pilots will never vote on a contract.

JackStraw
08-18-2019, 04:11 AM
Simple fix; an in-house union.

dynap09
08-18-2019, 08:00 AM
Simple fix; an in-house union.

Too easy and way too much independence - the focus would just be on the contract etc vs some of the big picture ****ing matches / legal fees / dues up to both the national and the federal for political activities etc.

That said, I think even teamsters and SEIU might be looking to get back to more just plain worker organizing - I do wish 1224 would keep up their "annual" pay comparisons - or did I miss that somewhere?

No Land 3
08-18-2019, 09:28 AM
Simple fix; an in-house union.

But... ??? Ah, never mind!

JackStraw
08-18-2019, 09:34 AM
But... ??? Ah, never mind!

You’re preaching to the choir, pal.

FlyJay
08-18-2019, 09:38 AM
So would it be worth coming to Southern for the triple right now? Received an offer to interview...:confused:

CardboardCutout
08-18-2019, 09:40 AM
So would it be worth coming to Southern for the triple right now? Received an offer to interview...:confused:

On page 10.

TiredSoul
08-18-2019, 09:45 AM
Simple fix; an in-house union.

You could have just said ALPA

https://media.tenor.com/images/46d357a59c12cb8fa5bdd040480fd85e/tenor.gif

Crusoe
08-18-2019, 09:55 AM
I haven't looked at the provisions for a while, but isn't the fact that both carriers are represented by 1224 part of the reason they can do this? So that kind of narrows the field of who they could acquire to reproduce this result. Also, there aren't many carriers out there generally that they could acquire just to hold back the pilots, so it's a little more hypothetical than likely. Of course, with this management team, one does want as much protection as possible.

Um no. Sadly not even this.

Palmtree Pilot
08-18-2019, 06:16 PM
So would it be worth coming to Southern for the triple right now? Received an offer to interview...:confused:

If you want to fly a triple in the ACMI world, I'd suggest going to Kalitta or Omni. Much better contracts and labor relations.

Diesel8
08-18-2019, 07:34 PM
Well, since "all is lost" for lack of a better term, can we stop paying the ridiculous assessment that we have been paying for close to half a decade that has netted us zip, zero, squat! Thousands paid with absolutely NOTHING to show for it.

If we did that at least we would be able to put something back in our pockets.

If the Union cronies tell us they still need it, I think it's time for:

D E C E R T.

NoJoy
08-18-2019, 09:06 PM
Well, since "all is lost" for lack of a better term, can we stop paying the ridiculous assessment that we have been paying for close to half a decade that has netted us zip, zero, squat! Thousands paid with absolutely NOTHING to show for it.

If we did that at least we would be able to put something back in our pockets.

If the Union cronies tell us they still need it, I think it's time for:

D E C E R T.


If we end up with Arbitration and no vote from the pilot group, Teamsters time at Atlas/Southern may indeed be voted on. Ala Kalitta...

Benver
08-19-2019, 03:20 AM
If we end up with Arbitration and no vote from the pilot group, Teamsters time at Atlas/Southern may indeed be voted on. Ala Kalitta...

It should be voted no matter what! Never saw a conflict of interest at this level before....

iPilot
08-19-2019, 04:21 AM
Pretty sure one of the big reasons the company has gone so far and lost so much flying in the pursuit of amalgamation is to get the union decertified. There was no downside and so much to gain by it.

kodiakallstar
08-19-2019, 04:43 AM
Pretty sure one of the big reasons the company has gone so far and lost so much flying in the pursuit of amalgamation is to get the union decertified. There was no downside and so much to gain by it.

Yeah these guys would be playing right into the companies hands. I can’t think of anything that would give the company more leverage than the unions own membership pushing for a decert in the middle of negotiations.

iPilot
08-19-2019, 04:59 AM
Yeah these guys would be playing right into the companies hands. I can’t think of anything that would give the company more leverage than the unions own membership pushing for a decert in the middle of negotiations.

Union busting 101. Fact is even with this ruling the union can appeal and otherwise drag this out for quite some time. Even *if* the union didn’t resist its 9 months of negotiation plus yet another arbitration process that will take well over a year.

With 20 737s coming, amazon expanding as fast a possible and DHL 777s just lying around I wonder if the company can wait to see it through. Just to get this far has taken years and utterly depleted the pilot pool.

However they do get to shake up the resolve of the pilots just in time for the home stretch of negotiations. They know how pilots work, this has all happened many times before.

742Dash
08-19-2019, 06:04 AM
.. Even *if* the union didn’t resist its 9 months of negotiation plus yet another arbitration process that will take well over a year....

Section 1.F.2.b.iii requires the arbitrator to issue the final ruling within 60 days of the start of arbitration, which in turn must start within 30 days of the end of the 9 month negotiating window.

The time line is fixed, and as I recall it was respected by all parties the last time we went down this road. Union starts the clock by presenting the merged list, 9 months of negotiations, 30 days to spin up the arbitrator, 60 days for the arbitrator to do his thing. Done.

This process is designed to be quick, as least by RLA standards.

Turbine1
08-19-2019, 06:25 AM
Well, since "all is lost" for lack of a better term, can we stop paying the ridiculous assessment that we have been paying for close to half a decade that has netted us zip, zero, squat! Thousands paid with absolutely NOTHING to show for it.

If we did that at least we would be able to put something back in our pockets.

If the Union cronies tell us they still need it, I think it's time for:

D E C E R T.

Decert of Teamsters is a wet dream for the company. The 17 articles that are already TA’d and the 7 that are in progress go in the trash and back to square one. 3.5 years of progress down the tubes, and everything not TA’d AGAIN with another union goes to the arbitrators desk too.

I agree that the track record of the union in court and major arbitrations has not been the best, but not from lack of effort. One has to allow that the deck is completely stacked in managements favor in those arenas. “What would Christmas be without Amazon!?” and other such BS comes to mind.

I don’t believe an arbitrator can force the union to give up the joint seniority list. He can’t impose a fine like in a contempt of court charge if the union disregards the ruling. Amazon and DHL’s plans are totally derailed without a SOC between Atlas and Southern and the route authorities that brings to the table. The smart play would be to withhold the joint seniority list until a industry leading CBA is signed sealed and delivered. No CBA so forget about getting a joint seniority list and a SOC. End result, no DHL and Amazon partnership. That new CVG 1.5 billion dollar Prime Air hub can just gather dust until Atlas signs on the line that is dotted. Atlas new masters will have no choice but to demand it gets done and right now.

At any rate nothing has been announced and now is not the time to abandon ship whatever the outcome.

RyeMex
08-19-2019, 06:52 AM
Section 1.F.2.b.iii requires the arbitrator to issue the final ruling within 60 days of the start of arbitration, which in turn must start within 30 days of the end of the 9 month negotiating window.

The time line is fixed, and as I recall it was respected by all parties the last time we went down this road. Union starts the clock by presenting the merged list, 9 months of negotiations, 30 days to spin up the arbitrator, 60 days for the arbitrator to do his thing. Done.

This process is designed to be quick, as least by RLA standards.

Arbitrators are not party to our CBA, and thus are not bound by its terms. In your scenario an arbitrator can, and will, take as long as they like. If I recall correctly, the arbitrator in the atlas / polar merger took well over a year to determine the final amalgamated CBA.

Fillmore Slim
08-19-2019, 06:54 AM
Decert of Teamsters is a wet dream for the company. The 17 articles that are already TA’d and the 7 that are in progress go in the trash and back to square one. 3.5 years of progress down the tubes, and everything not TA’d AGAIN with another union goes to the arbitrators desk.

I agree that the track record of the union in court and major arbitrations has not been the best, but not from lack of effort. One has to allow that the deck is totally stacked in the companies favor in those arenas. “What would Christmas be without Amazon!?” and other such BS comes to mind.

I don’t believe an arbitrator can force the union to give up the joint seniority list. He can’t impose a fine like in a contempt of court charge if the union disregards the ruling. Amazon and DHL’s plans are totally derailed without a SOC between Atlas and Southern and the route authorities that brings to the table. The smart play would be no industry leading CBA signed sealed and delivered then no joint seniority list for you AAWH. Atlas new masters will have no choice but to demand it gets done and right now.

At any rate nothing has been announced and now is not the time to abandon ship whatever the outcome.

Well said. Also, my negotiating committee speaks for me. Atlas can send me all the propaganda they want, but it all goes in the shredder. Kiddos to our union guys and gals, keep up the great work!

Slim

TiredSoul
08-19-2019, 07:09 AM
Yeah these guys would be playing right into the companies hands. I can’t think of anything that would give the company more leverage than the unions own membership pushing for a decert in the middle of negotiations.

Don’t make this into a false flag operation.
It’s not.

nitefr8dog
08-19-2019, 08:39 AM
Turbine1 said....."That new CVG 1.5 billion dollar Prime Air hub can just gather dust until Atlas signs on the line that is dotted. Atlas new masters will have no choice but to demand it gets done and right now."


Maybe...but there are other players besides Atlas...ATI , ABX, even rumors of Mesa flying the 737's. He!! ATSG is probably in the 40ish a/c for Amazon now and has a total of 90 767's available under Cam leasing if Amazon decided to buy ATSG. I don't see the new Amazon hub gathering dust. Anybody could fly any of these aircraft and probably yours too. Amazon has no loyalty to any one particular carrier and is more than happy to spread it around as we now see. I would not hang my hat on Amazon and the new hub being an issue....they will just bottom feed bid it out.

JackStraw
08-19-2019, 08:57 AM
Biting the hand that feeds you is a terrible idea; even if they’re a sh*t partner to work with.

Globemaster2827
08-19-2019, 09:38 AM
Well, since "all is lost" for lack of a better term, can we stop paying the ridiculous assessment that we have been paying for close to half a decade that has netted us zip, zero, squat! Thousands paid with absolutely NOTHING to show for it.

If we did that at least we would be able to put something back in our pockets.

If the Union cronies tell us they still need it, I think it's time for:

D E C E R T.

Let me remind you that Atlas wanted to merge Southern's bankrupt contract with Atlas's Amalgamated contract. You could've absolutely saved your 1% assessment but here's some of what you'd have gotten in return...

1. Atlas Retirement... 5%... Southern Retirement... 0%... Merged Retirement? 2.5% (You're already losing money)...
2. Atlas Days of Service... 17... Southern's... 20.... Merged days of service? 18.5 (plus "Gateway")
3. Atlas Vacation... Vacation Slide gives you a month off... Southern Vacation... You get a 15 day Vacation line... Merged Vacation? You get a 10 Day "Vacation Line".
4. Atlas Max Day... 22... Southern Max Day... 28... Merged Max Day... 25 hours.
5. Atlas Commercial Dead Head... Business class international... Southern Commercial Dead Head... Middle seat in coach... Merged Commercial Dead Head... Middle Seat Coach unless the dead head is more than a 10 hour leg.
6. Atlas 12 year 747 Captain... $210 an hour... Southern 12 year 777 Captain... $149 an hour... Merged 12 year rate on the 747... $183 an hour.
7. Atlas Guarantee... 62 hours... Southern 60 hours... Merged... 61 hours.
8. Atlas Rig... 4.85 hours a day... Southern Rig... 0 hours a day... Merged Rig... 2.425 hours a day.

Congrats on your new contract you'd have been living under until 2022 when Atlas buys Amerijet and merges their rules into your contract. These are just a few rules, but since you wanted to save your 1% to merge your contract with Southern's so bad maybe 1224 should let you live on the Merged 2016 Contract you would've gotten and give you your 1% back. The rest will live under whatever Amalgamation brings in 2 or 3 years.

sandman22
08-19-2019, 09:50 AM
Decert of Teamsters is a wet dream for the company. The 17 articles that are already TA’d and the 7 that are in progress go in the trash and back to square one. 3.5 years of progress down the tubes, and everything not TA’d AGAIN with another union goes to the arbitrators desk too.

I agree that the track record of the union in court and major arbitrations has not been the best, but not from lack of effort. One has to allow that the deck is completely stacked in managements favor in those arenas. “What would Christmas be without Amazon!?” and other such BS comes to mind.

I don’t believe an arbitrator can force the union to give up the joint seniority list. He can’t impose a fine like in a contempt of court charge if the union disregards the ruling. Amazon and DHL’s plans are totally derailed without a SOC between Atlas and Southern and the route authorities that brings to the table. The smart play would be to withhold the joint seniority list until a industry leading CBA is signed sealed and delivered. No CBA so forget about getting a joint seniority list and a SOC. End result, no DHL and Amazon partnership. That new CVG 1.5 billion dollar Prime Air hub can just gather dust until Atlas signs on the line that is dotted. Atlas new masters will have no choice but to demand it gets done and right now.

At any rate nothing has been announced and now is not the time to abandon ship whatever the outcome.

Hear, hear!

boeingdvr
08-19-2019, 02:44 PM
Hear, hear!

Seriously- then the company can truly say it’s your pilots and unions fault. We are nearing the finish line. Even though it make take a couple more years.

Turbine1
08-20-2019, 12:59 AM
Seriously- then the company can truly say it’s your pilots and unions fault. We are nearing the finish line. Even though it make take a couple more years.

It’s not the unions fault but the company will promote that story for all it’s worth. 1224 will just have to explain to John Q Public that the company forced us into this position and now nothing less than all our jobs are at stake.

If that scope merger language is not removed then Atlas pilots won’t get to vote on a contract their entire careers here. Just like in 2011 and apparently this contract cycle too. Of bigger concern though is if scope goes to the arbitrator again he’ll give mgt everything they want...just like he did in 2011. The executives are recently on record saying they want major increases in dry leasing and the ability to sell aircraft without the pilots attached. Just a company scare tactic? I don’t think so, I’ve never seen the company fail to follow thru on their threats.

If a majority of the pilot group don’t mind that, then proceed. Hand over our biggest bargaining chip, the combined seniority list and we’re headed to another arbitrated 50% discounted industry worst JCBA; this time with NO job protections.

We won’t be near the finish line. The company intentionally dragged it out 2.5 years after the joint list was published between Atlas and Polar in 2009. Bet on that timeline again, 9 months means nothing to AAWH and it isn’t binding. The Atlas/Southern list will take a year to merge first. Fun fact, during that 2.5 years of “good faith negotiations” it was later revealed that Atlas was secretly shopping around Polar to the highest bidder. Every Polar pilot would have been instantly on the street if they’d found a buyer.

So about the Fall of 2022, we’ll implement a new 10 yr JCBA and assume our new roles as Temp Pilots. I think avoiding that future is worth a little bad press. Shareholders are smart enough to see who really is to blame, as the tanking stock price reflects.

Elevation
08-20-2019, 04:06 AM
No need to panic until we have the facts. Even then there will be no need to freak out.

In the mean time we have an existential safety crisis which we're aren't addressing or even acknowledging.

Why not freak out about that instead?

FrancesTheMute
08-20-2019, 04:32 AM
It’s not the unions fault but the company will promote that story for all it’s worth. 1224 will just have to explain to John Q Public that the company forced us into this position and now nothing less than all our jobs are at stake.

If that scope merger language is not removed then Atlas pilots won’t get to vote on a contract their entire careers here. Just like in 2011 and apparently this contract cycle too. Of bigger concern though is if scope goes to the arbitrator again he’ll give mgt everything they want...just like he did in 2011. The executives are recently on record saying they want major increases in dry leasing and the ability to sell aircraft without the pilots attached. Just a company scare tactic? I don’t think so, I’ve never seen the company fail to follow thru on their threats.

If a majority of the pilot group don’t mind that, then proceed. Hand over our biggest bargaining chip, the combined seniority list and we’re headed to another arbitrated 50% discounted industry worst JCBA; this time with NO job protections.

We won’t be near the finish line. The company intentionally dragged it out 2.5 years after the joint list was published between Atlas and Polar in 2009. Bet on that timeline again, 9 months means nothing to AAWH and it isn’t binding. The Atlas/Southern list will take a year to merge first. Fun fact, during that 2.5 years of “good faith negotiations” it was later revealed that Atlas was secretly shopping around Polar to the highest bidder. Every Polar pilot would have been instantly on the street if they’d found a buyer.

So about the Fall of 2022, we’ll implement a new 10 yr JCBA and assume our new roles as Temp Pilots. I think avoiding that future is worth a little bad press. Shareholders are smart enough to see who really is to blame, as the tanking stock price reflects.



It’s not 2009 and they can’t afford that timeline.

Champcar
08-20-2019, 04:34 AM
No need to panic until we have the facts. Even then there will be no need to freak out.

In the mean time we have an existential safety crisis which we're aren't addressing or even acknowledging.

Why not freak out about that instead?
And what would that safety crisis be?

Twin Wasp
08-20-2019, 05:10 AM
It’s not 2009 and they can’t afford that timeline.


The problem is "Management" doesn't seem to know that.

JackStraw
08-20-2019, 05:26 AM
And what would that safety crisis be?

Well Atlas has crashed 2 airplanes in under 12 months.

RyeMex
08-20-2019, 05:28 AM
Well Atlas has crashed 2 airplanes in under 12 months.

Don't forget about Senior management threatening crewmembers with a lawsuit if they dare to call in fatigued. Safety third!

kodiakallstar
08-20-2019, 08:32 AM
It’s not 2009 and they can’t afford that timeline.

Mgmt doesn’t seem to agree. Even though the company is faltering big time due mostly to not enough crew they will never admit it publicly. They’ll blame trade wars or whatever even though the planes we are still flying are completely packed and we are turning down business left and right. At this point the only thing they fear is being removed by the board for the companies terrible performance and they just solved that problem now didn’t they. They can run this thing totally into bankruptcy and not even blink.

tom11011
08-20-2019, 11:10 AM
Hi Group,

I received a recruitment email for Southern Air for the 777. I was looking you up on this website and the information is stale. What are the pay rates for the 777? Obviously there is a typo at $80 per hour, I'm thinking $180 but that seems high for a new hire too? And have your domiciles also changed since that was posted?

Thanks in advance. Sounds like a fun opportunity on the triple 7.

s3cLyfe
08-20-2019, 11:37 AM
Hi Group,

I received a recruitment email for Southern Air for the 777. I was looking you up on this website and the information is stale. What are the pay rates for the 777? Obviously there is a typo at $80 per hour, I'm thinking $180 but that seems high for a new hire too? And have your domiciles also changed since that was posted?

Thanks in advance. Sounds like a fun opportunity on the triple 7.

Every Atlas Pilot is reading this and thinks you’re either trolling or beyond incompetent. I don’t work at Atlas so I’ll respond on their behalf. If you’ve even read the last two pages of this thread alone you’d know to steer clear. Which is why you’re just on here to cause drama.

Formerbuspilot
08-20-2019, 12:55 PM
Hi Group,

I received a recruitment email for Southern Air for the 777. I was looking you up on this website and the information is stale. What are the pay rates for the 777? Obviously there is a typo at $80 per hour, I'm thinking $180 but that seems high for a new hire too? And have your domiciles also changed since that was posted?

Thanks in advance. Sounds like a fun opportunity on the triple 7.

I’m pretty sure that everyone with a m-e commercial ticket and an active email account has received the same solicitation.

Yes, $80/hour x 50hrs/month. Awesome opportunity!!

Globemaster2827
08-20-2019, 02:36 PM
Every Atlas Pilot is reading this and thinks you’re either trolling or beyond incompetent. I don’t work at Atlas so I’ll respond on their behalf. If you’ve even read the last two pages of this thread alone you’d know to steer clear. Which is why you’re just on here to cause drama.

Reading the responses never gets old though...

CardboardCutout
08-20-2019, 02:39 PM
Yeah but you're on the triple!

boeingdvr
08-20-2019, 02:59 PM
Yeah but you're on the triple!

The only thing good about the “triple” at southern. It looks damn good on a Tinder Profile.

NoJoy
08-20-2019, 03:05 PM
The only thing good about the “triple” at southern. It looks damn good on a Tinder Profile.

^^
This.

I wonder when the cargo version of the 777X will come out. Lol

Birdsmash
08-20-2019, 03:17 PM
^^
This.

I wonder when the cargo version of the 777X will come out. Lol

It is. It’s called the 747-8. If you need more volume you move up to the Whale. You get four puny engines and a big watch.

maxjet
08-21-2019, 04:12 AM
4. Atlas Max Day... 22... Southern Max Day... 28... Merged Max Day... 25 hours.
hours.


Kind of ironic from a K4 point of view

Lockheed
08-21-2019, 06:25 AM
Kind of ironic from a K4 point of view

^^
That is freaking funny Max
‘Oh the horror....

Atrasaty
08-21-2019, 07:46 AM
Kind of ironic from a K4 point of view

Not ironic at all, freaking wrong. GM was just pointing out the potential merged CBA consequences had SA NOT had their contract matched to the existing Atlas CBA, so it is moot and not ironic. Sad that some K4 guys get so giddy every time they feel there is an opportunity to twist the knife.

JackStraw
08-21-2019, 07:52 AM
Not ironic at all, freaking wrong. GM was just pointing out the potential merged CBA consequences had SA NOT had their contract matched to the existing Atlas CBA, so it is moot and not ironic. Sad that some K4 guys get so giddy every time they feel there is an opportunity to twist the knife.

They went from zeroes to having a decent cba and all of a sudden can’t stay in their own lane whenever they see another bad Atlas thread.

Globemaster2827
08-21-2019, 08:38 AM
Kind of ironic from a K4 point of view

They get paid with Rig more than blocking hours. Yall don't have Rig and having a super long day where you fly 20 hours might be the best way to break guarantee.

Personally I'd rather have their current Rig. I bet yall block a ton more hours.

Globemaster2827
08-21-2019, 08:45 AM
They went from zeroes to having a decent cba and all of a sudden can’t stay in their own lane whenever they see another bad Atlas thread.

If I had to rank their CBA they'd be behind Spirit, Jet Blue, Frontier, Alliegient, Southwest, Delta, American, United, FedEx, UPS, Omni and ATI... That's 12 airlines. I'll leave it to you whether that's "decent"... I don't expect Atlas to surpass any of those on the list except for Omni and ATI plus probably K4 since JD said "K4 Plus a Dollar" in several forums. Of course K4 will be starting negotiations just like Atlas was when K4 got their "decent" contract.

I think the real kicker though is if you're better off at a commuter with direct flow than K4. The pay would be better at K4 but you would end up at American for sure. That's part of their contract... So... I might put commuters up there too.

Locke
08-21-2019, 09:49 AM
If I had to rank their CBA they'd be behind Spirit, Jet Blue, Frontier, Alliegient, Southwest, Delta, American, United, FedEx, UPS, Omni and ATI... That's 12 airlines. I'll leave it to you whether that's "decent"... I don't expect Atlas to surpass any of those on the list except for Omni and ATI plus probably K4 since JD said "K4 Plus a Dollar" in several forums. Of course K4 will be starting negotiations just like Atlas was when K4 got their "decent" contract.

I think the real kicker though is if you're better off at a commuter with direct flow than K4. The pay would be better at K4 but you would end up at American for sure. That's part of their contract... So... I might put commuters up there too.

It’s mind boggling how quickly these arguments go in circles.

No one asked you to rank anything. Keep thinking what you want, but while you’re complaining about pay, qol, vacation, etc, most of the K4 guys are actually happy.

Globemaster2827
08-21-2019, 09:56 AM
It’s mind boggling how quickly these arguments go in circles.

No one asked you to rank anything. Keep thinking what you want, but while you’re complaining about pay, qol, vacation, etc, most of the K4 guys are actually happy.

Glad they're happy... I just think it's a stretch to call their contract "Decent" or "Average".

robi523
08-21-2019, 12:39 PM
Glad they're happy... I just think it's a stretch to call their contract "Decent" or "Average".

Easy fix... Stay away

No Land 3
08-21-2019, 01:06 PM
I'm sorry, who else has first year FO's breaking 200k if they want it? Or 140k if they'd rather be home more? Our giant hourly rate increase was done instead of a rig.
Now ya'll are super happy for your new DH rules saying it is industry leading. Should I be the prick that says it's still not at the level of what Evergreen had? All international DH was business class regardless of length or legs.
A commuter? Every former commuter pilot at K4 is looking at you as if you just dressed up as Hitler for Halloween.

JackStraw
08-21-2019, 01:14 PM
I'm sorry, who else has first year FO's breaking 200k if they want it? Or 140k if they'd rather be home more? Our giant hourly rate increase was done instead of a rig.
Now ya'll are super happy for your new DH rules saying it is industry leading. Should I be the prick that says it's still not at the level of what Evergreen had? All international DH was business class regardless of length or legs.
A commuter? Every former commuter pilot at K4 is looking at you as if you just dressed up as Hitler for Halloween.
Why do Kalitta guys constantly migrate over to Atlas threads to spike your W2s on us? It reeks of desperation.

No Land 3
08-21-2019, 01:22 PM
I'd rather not come over to your threads, but some of us feel a need to defend. Others still have a ton of animosity towards the new contract being held up 6 months. But I believe all of us want to see you guys get the new contract you want, and have some empathy for you guys dealing with a management who seemingly doesn't care about the company long term.

boeingdvr
08-21-2019, 01:59 PM
I'm sorry, who else has first year FO's breaking 200k if they want it? Or 140k if they'd rather be home more? Our giant hourly rate increase was done instead of a rig.
Now ya'll are super happy for your new DH rules saying it is industry leading. Should I be the prick that says it's still not at the level of what Evergreen had? All international DH was business class regardless of length or legs.
A commuter? Every former commuter pilot at K4 is looking at you as if you just dressed up as Hitler for Halloween.

Our INTL DH has always been biz class. Now when you leave your home to whatever connection the domestic portion is also first class.

maxjet
08-21-2019, 02:01 PM
Glad they're happy... I just think it's a stretch to call their contract "Decent" or "Average".

Those of you who are new to the forum. 1224 leadership held up the TA that K4 had for many months. The reason? Kalitta had negotiated a 24 hour duty day when on a double crew. Down from 30. 1224 at the last minute stopped the process over a NEW demand. Deals off and you need to obtain an 18 hour max duty day. Long story as to why 1224 would do this to us and not worth rehashing. It cost K4 pilots substantial money in both lost pay and expenses to arbitrate our way free. It was in my opinion the main reason we left 1224.

How this gets morphed into you thinking that K4 Pilots do not adamantly support the well being of ALL pilots just reeks of immaturity on your part.

JonnyKnoxville
08-21-2019, 02:03 PM
I'm sorry, who else has first year FO's breaking 200k if they want it? Or 140k if they'd rather be home more? Our giant hourly rate increase was done instead of a rig.
Now ya'll are super happy for your new DH rules saying it is industry leading. Should I be the prick that says it's still not at the level of what Evergreen had? All international DH was business class regardless of length or legs.
A commuter? Every former commuter pilot at K4 is looking at you as if you just dressed up as Hitler for Halloween.

I am not sure who you are referring to?

If it is the comments by Globe, he is a FedEx pilot and not an Atlas pilot. If the new DH rules you are referring to as being industry leading is in reference to Atlas, that is because they will be when this CBA gets signed. All international travel is Business Class or better (as it is today), so your information is wrong there.

JackStraw
08-21-2019, 05:08 PM
Those of you who are new to the forum. 1224 leadership held up the TA that K4 had for many months. The reason? Kalitta had negotiated a 24 hour duty day when on a double crew. Down from 30. 1224 at the last minute stopped the process over a NEW demand. Deals off and you need to obtain an 18 hour max duty day. Long story as to why 1224 would do this to us and not worth rehashing. It cost K4 pilots substantial money in both lost pay and expenses to arbitrate our way free. It was in my opinion the main reason we left 1224.

How this gets morphed into you thinking that K4 Pilots do not adamantly support the well being of ALL pilots just reeks of immaturity on your part.


Nobody cares.

Globemaster2827
08-21-2019, 05:14 PM
Easy fix... Stay away

I'd go to K4 to get to FedEx or UPS... I'd probably need 1000 Turbine PIC and a Degree before I started there though. It is a very good stepping stone. If you show up without the PIC you'll spend 12 years there...

Globemaster2827
08-21-2019, 05:18 PM
I'm sorry, who else has first year FO's breaking 200k if they want it? Or 140k if they'd rather be home more? Our giant hourly rate increase was done instead of a rig.
Now ya'll are super happy for your new DH rules saying it is industry leading. Should I be the prick that says it's still not at the level of what Evergreen had? All international DH was business class regardless of length or legs.
A commuter? Every former commuter pilot at K4 is looking at you as if you just dressed up as Hitler for Halloween.

Your first year FOs are breaking $140k making $111 an hour with a 64 hour guarantee? With no rig does the FAA know they're flying 1261 hours a year?

If I were at K4 and were a Captain I'd leave for most of those listed in that top 12.

Globemaster2827
08-21-2019, 05:21 PM
Why do Kalitta guys constantly migrate over to Atlas threads to spike your W2s on us? It reeks of desperation.

As a former Atlas and now a big 2 cargo guy I'd love to show them my 2020 W2... AND Retirement. Maybe some of them would start to realize how bad Connie treats them. I've averaged around 4 days of work a month this Summer and this month I'll clear $20k this month easy... Maybe even $25k.

If K4 had offered an interview last year I wouldn't have considered it.

Globemaster2827
08-21-2019, 05:31 PM
Those of you who are new to the forum. 1224 leadership held up the TA that K4 had for many months. The reason? Kalitta had negotiated a 24 hour duty day when on a double crew. Down from 30. 1224 at the last minute stopped the process over a NEW demand. Deals off and you need to obtain an 18 hour max duty day. Long story as to why 1224 would do this to us and not worth rehashing. It cost K4 pilots substantial money in both lost pay and expenses to arbitrate our way free. It was in my opinion the main reason we left 1224.

How this gets morphed into you thinking that K4 Pilots do not adamantly support the well being of ALL pilots just reeks of immaturity on your part.

Actually you cost yourself money by demanding a vote on an obsolete pay rate, obsolete work rules and the worst retirement I know of other than a few of the commuters. That's on you.

goinaround
08-21-2019, 05:37 PM
Your first year FOs are breaking $140k making $111 an hour with a 64 hour guarantee? With no rig does the FAA know they're flying 1261 hours a year?

If I were at K4 and were a Captain I'd leave for most of those listed in that top 12.

I don't think 140K is happening as much for new guys...not this year at least. And I have no dog in this fight...I have very little airline experience so don't know what the rest of the world does but for example: last month I came in with 94 hours credit with less than 50 block. The rest of the credit comes from reserve periods on layover, dead heads, maybe some CBTs a few times a year. So it's not like we're working our butts off by any means.

I hate the bickering back and forth about contracts/companies...it's always so extreme opposite ended and petty. "You work 24 hour days" "I work four days a month and make 25 grand". I have close friends at every major, LCC, and box carrier....I know the score.

atpcliff
08-21-2019, 09:51 PM
Should I be the prick that says it's still not at the level of what Evergreen had? All international DH was business class regardless of length or legs.


Atlas has all Intntl trips DH Biz class or better in our CURRENT contract...
and Biz Class if the Duty Day is over 16 hours if it's a domestic DH, and a max Duty Day of 20 hours, if DH at the end of the Duty Day. You can extend your Duty Day over 20 hours if you are DH to your gateway/Alternative Travel destination at the end of a pattern, only.

Bungalow
08-22-2019, 05:52 AM
As a former Atlas and now a big 2 cargo guy I'd love to show them my 2020 W2... AND Retirement. Maybe some of them would start to realize how bad Connie treats them. I've averaged around 4 days of work a month this Summer and this month I'll clear $20k this month easy... Maybe even $25k.

If K4 had offered an interview last year I wouldn't have considered it.

Woooah !!
Is that why the call you the “Globemaster” ??

Lockheed
08-22-2019, 06:10 AM
Your first year FOs are breaking $140k making $111 an hour with a 64 hour guarantee? With no rig does the FAA know they're flying 1261 hours a year?

If I were at K4 and were a Captain I'd leave for most of those listed in that top 12.
This been explained to you so many times it’s tiresome

We get it
You hate Kalitta and everyone there and everything about it

Why dont you go troll a UPS thread or something

Lockheed
08-22-2019, 06:15 AM
Actually you cost yourself money by demanding a vote on an obsolete pay rate, obsolete work rules and the worst retirement I know of other than a few of the commuters. That's on you.

This is so far wrong it’s almost funny if were not so sad

JackStraw
08-22-2019, 06:50 AM
Atlas thread evolution:

1)”This place sucks bc of the following...” post.
2) Kalitta guy logs in, makes himself at home, and lobs a “sucks to be you” post.
3) A different Kalitta guy makes a statement about how bad Teamsters is and to leave Teamsters because “they provided them nothing...”
4) Same Kalitta guy then brags about the cba the Teamsters got them in a weird, ironic plot twist.
5) By the time the thread eventually fades into oblivion still nobody cares about Kalitta and Atlas still sucks.

kodiakallstar
08-22-2019, 07:00 AM
Atlas thread evolution:

1)”This place sucks bc of the following...” post.
2) Kalitta guy makes logs in, makes himself at home, and lobs a “sucks to be you” post.
3) A different Kalitta guy makes a statement about how bad Teamsters is and to leave Teamsters because “they provided them nothing...”
4) Same Kalitta guy then brags about the cba the Teamsters got them in a weird, ironic plot twist.
5) By the time the thread eventually fades into oblivion still nobody cares about Kalitta and Atlas still sucks.

Nailed it!

boeingdvr
08-22-2019, 08:10 AM
Atlas thread evolution:

1)”This place sucks bc of the following...” post.
2) Kalitta guy logs in, makes himself at home, and lobs a “sucks to be you” post.
3) A different Kalitta guy makes a statement about how bad Teamsters is and to leave Teamsters because “they provided them nothing...”
4) Same Kalitta guy then brags about the cba the Teamsters got them in a weird, ironic plot twist.
5) By the time the thread eventually fades into oblivion still nobody cares about Kalitta and Atlas still sucks.


We are just the dirty whor* - they wish they had.

Globemaster2827
08-22-2019, 08:45 AM
This been explained to you so many times it’s tiresome

We get it
You hate Kalitta and everyone there and everything about it

Why dont you go troll a UPS thread or something

Probably because this is an Atlas thread and I use to work there... Why don't you go make fun of Mesa because they're the only Regional I could find who's got a Retirement worse than the one your pilots made death threats over an attempt to vote "Yes" on...

MoarAlpha
08-22-2019, 08:57 AM
Probably because this is an Atlas thread and I use to work there... Why don't you go make fun of Mesa because they're the only Regional I could find who's got a Retirement worse than the one your pilots made death threats over an attempt to vote "Yes" on...

I think everyone is just getting a little testy due to what is happening at AAWW. I can assure you not all of us at K4 feel the need to poke fun at your, AAWW pilots, situation and wholeheartedly want you to get a CBA and move on from this ASAP.

Globemaster2827
08-22-2019, 09:02 AM
I think everyone is just getting a little testy due to what is happening at AAWW. I can assure you not all of us at K4 feel the need to poke fun at your, AAWW pilots, situation and wholeheartedly want you to get a CBA and move on from this ASAP.

ACMI managers are killing all of yall. I get it that people are happy at K4 right now and that's a good thing. I don't think Connie is going to be very popular once your contract opens. He kept yall in negotiations for 5 or 6 years last time!

It's literally like all of them do the exact same thing every time...

fr8ghtdawg
08-23-2019, 05:51 PM
Globemaster,
You have simply no understanding of the K4 contract regarding the manner in which they earn credit for reserve, line guarantee, and deadhead which is unlike your contract at Atlas. The contract at K4 is far superior to that of ATI, Omni, Atlas (work rules and pay) It is on par and probably slightly ahead of Spirit, Frontier, and Jet Blue. You however are absolutely correct regarding lack of decent retirement at K4 and that is the focus of what the negotiating guys are shooting for.(and yes we had new hire fo's making 145K and more the first year do to unlimited overtime and reserve credits)
Its sad that a vocal minority like yourself feel the need to perpetuate this hubris. The K4 pilots want nothing but the best for the Atlas pilots and this does nothing to advance the quality of life at either carrier.

Lockheed
08-23-2019, 05:59 PM
Globemaster,
You have simply no understanding of the K4 contract regarding the manner in which they earn credit for reserve, line guarantee, and deadhead which is unlike your contract at Atlas. The contract at K4 is far superior to that of ATI, Omni, Atlas (work rules and pay) It is on par and probably slightly ahead of Spirit, Frontier, and Jet Blue. You however are absolutely correct regarding lack of decent retirement at K4 and that is the focus of what the negotiating guys are shooting for.(and yes we had new hire fo's making 145K and more the first year do to unlimited overtime and reserve credits)
Its sad that a vocal minority like yourself feel the need to perpetuate this hubris. The K4 pilots want nothing but the best for the Atlas pilots and this does nothing to advance the quality of life at either carrier.

++well said

Globemaster2827
08-23-2019, 06:04 PM
Globemaster,
You have simply no understanding of the K4 contract regarding the manner in which they earn credit for reserve, line guarantee, and deadhead which is unlike your contract at Atlas. The contract at K4 is far superior to that of ATI, Omni, Atlas (work rules and pay) It is on par and probably slightly ahead of Spirit, Frontier, and Jet Blue. You however are absolutely correct regarding lack of decent retirement at K4 and that is the focus of what the negotiating guys are shooting for.(and yes we had new hire fo's making 145K and more the first year do to unlimited overtime and reserve credits)
Its sad that a vocal minority like yourself feel the need to perpetuate this hubris. The K4 pilots want nothing but the best for the Atlas pilots and this does nothing to advance the quality of life at either carrier.

It's not really worth arguing over... Deleted.

No Land 3
08-23-2019, 06:05 PM
I'm no longer allowed to play in this sandbox, but I believe Globemaster is a Fed Ex pilot now.
*runs off to his sandbox...

fr8ghtdawg
08-23-2019, 06:19 PM
Globemaster,
I'm very aware of Omni contract, The rate is higher but the work rules aren't up to the K4 contract , same with the ATI contract. Spirit rounds out to about even with K4 with the retirement considered.(which is industry standard at 16% direct contribution) Also, why their rate is okay, They have a really good guarantee. I truly envy the retirement you have at Fed Ex with the pension and hope that its there for you when you retire. I know that the fidelity direct contribution that you have there (fed ex) is what the standard should be at K4 and Atlas.

CardboardCutout
08-23-2019, 06:39 PM
Omni and Kalitta get compared quite often (and fair enough, the Omni contract smells a LOT like "K4+0"). But they're pretty different jobs, AFAICT. Kalitta flies cargo, flies a lot, and Connie calls his own shots, for better or worse. Mostly better, it seems like. Omni flies people (people wearing boots, mostly), flies not a lot (at least right now), and is owned by ATSG. Pretty different lifestyles. I'm extremely happy at Omni, because I'm lazy and old, and guarantee works for me. If I were a young hard-charger who wanted to stack the greenbacks and build the hours, I would prefer Kalitta. Caveat Emptor and all that.

PS. I will append that Omni's work-rules are better in some areas simply by virtue of not being subject to the "cargo cutout".

The Dominican
08-24-2019, 06:18 PM
If anybody at Atlas could answer some questions on PM's please let me know!

Best regards and thanks in advance.

boeingdvr
08-25-2019, 02:53 AM
If anybody at Atlas could answer some questions on PM's please let me know!

Best regards and thanks in advance.

Surely, you must be joking....

BayBum4Ever
08-25-2019, 05:14 PM
AtlasFacts.org (http://www.atlasfacts.org)

V1Rotate
08-26-2019, 12:57 AM
We are hiring !! Need all the bodies we can find. Come on over, the water is warm.

- 21 day trips around the world. If you want, you can bid back to back for 40 days on the road.
- 4.85 trip rig ( not per day ) half day = half pay.
- Day / night patterns
- day sleeping
- ready reserve from 3am - 9am ( no sleep rooms )
- Union Assement of $50 bucks a month mandatory
- 5 year upgrade on 767
- 1 year upgrade on 737 ( all nighters all the time ) 20 hours a month flying. Need 1k pic before upgrade.
- not a time building airline.
- Min guaranteed 62 hours.
- vacation & training months 62 hours. No way to break 62 unless working on days off
- DH to Asia on the 747 ( 4.85 ) hours of pay
- Atlas has deal with AA and Delta for ultra deep discounted fares. Not easy to accrue points and miles now.
- Most hotels crew member doesn't keep points.
- Plan on 1600 per month for first 5 months as new hire.
- OT is seniority based. New hires rarely get OT.

- We need all hands on deck. Come on over !!


Sounds to appealing, but I think I’ll pass. ;)

NoJoy
08-26-2019, 06:24 PM
Latest news concerning Atlas/Southern. Courts decision:

https://www.freightwaves.com/news/arbitrator-denies-atlas-airs-pilots-bid-to-negotiate-imposes-arbitrated-settlement

seattlepilot
08-26-2019, 06:55 PM
So would it be worth coming to Southern for the triple right now? Received an offer to interview...:confused:



No. Simple as that

Globemaster2827
08-26-2019, 09:28 PM
Condolences on the ruling today. I know it must be very tough right now, but remember that it's never as good or as bad as it seems. If any of you want any advice on FedEx or UPS please hit me up with a PM or on All Out. This goes for all of you "Scumbag Freight" guys trying to get the best for your families. If you keep grinding I promise good things will happen.

God Bless.

Asiabound
08-27-2019, 08:57 AM
Are people still showing up to class? It seems like that is your only real leverage...

NoJoy
08-27-2019, 09:10 AM
Are people still showing up to class? It seems like that is your only real leverage...

Yes they are. Not in big numbers, but still showing up.
A mix of 121 regional FOs, 91 and 135 pilots.

TiredSoul
08-27-2019, 09:27 AM
No classes for the rest of the year remember?

Diesel8
08-27-2019, 06:58 PM
Are people still showing up to class? It seems like that is your only real leverage...

Lots of helicopter guys.

boeingdvr
08-28-2019, 02:57 AM
No CBA at Atlas for 2-3 years. We are so screwed.

alonco82
09-04-2019, 04:58 PM
Hey ppl
Any active southern 777 pilot around?
Pls PM me, thank you!

SunnyFL
09-09-2019, 07:56 AM
Just a quick question. 737 is not home based right? You actually have to reside in base at CVG unlike the 777 which is home basing?

tengssuuciurta
09-09-2019, 08:09 AM
Just a quick question. 737 is not home based right? You actually have to reside in base at CVG unlike the 777 which is home basing?

Incorrect, the 737 has gateway just like every other aircraft now.

Birdsmash
09-09-2019, 08:34 AM
Just a quick question. 737 is not home based right? You actually have to reside in base at CVG unlike the 777 which is home basing?

Both Southern fleets are now “Gateway” based. CVG is a 737/777 base and LAX is a smaller 777 base.

Turbine1
09-09-2019, 12:39 PM
Just a quick question. 737 is not home based right? You actually have to reside in base at CVG unlike the 777 which is home basing?

Atlas intends to do away with Gateway in the next CBA. If the company "generously" allows us to keep it, the pilots will be paying the millions that program costs AAWH via cuts to our compensation in other areas. You can forget about any commuter clauses. Atlas would never pay protect you because you're last JS priority on all other airlines metal and couldn't find your way to work on time. If anything you'd probably end up being terminated.

Ihateusernames
09-09-2019, 12:49 PM
Atlas intends to do away with Gateway in the next CBA. If the company "generously" allows us to keep it, the pilots will be paying the millions that program costs AAWH via cuts to our compensation in other areas. You can forget about any commuter clauses. Atlas would never pay protect you because you're last JS priority on all other airlines metal and couldn't find your way to work on time. If anything you'd probably end up being terminated.



Pretty sure no commuter clause pay protects you....please enlighten me if there is.....otherwise everyone would be taking the last flight of the night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

WhipWhitaker
09-09-2019, 01:06 PM
Atlas intends to do away with Gateway in the next CBA. If the company "generously" allows us to keep it, the pilots will be paying the millions that program costs AAWH via cuts to our compensation in other areas. You can forget about any commuter clauses. Atlas would never pay protect you because you're last JS priority on all other airlines metal and couldn't find your way to work on time. If anything you'd probably end up being terminated.

How would the company benefit in any way from having their pilots not be able to get to work, and then firing them?

Turbine1
09-09-2019, 01:29 PM
How would the company benefit in any way from having their pilots not be able to get to work, and then firing them?

The company benefits because it takes the time, manpower and cost onus off the company shoulders and puts it all on the crewmember. Before Gateway for all came about in 2011 I personally know of pilots
who were disciplined and/or fired for no showing. Not one word in the contract then or policy protecting the individual. You missed a trip and didn't have a damn good reason you were done. The company wants that era to return, or for us to pay dearly to remain status quo.

WhipWhitaker
09-09-2019, 01:40 PM
The company benefits because it takes the time, manpower and cost onus off the company shoulders and puts it all on the crewmember. Before Gateway for all came about in 2011 I personally know of pilots
who were disciplined and/or fired for no showing. Not one word in the contract then or policy protecting the individual. You missed a trip and didn't have a damn good reason you were done. The company wants that era to return, or for us to pay dearly to remain status quo.

I understand the cost benefit of getting rid of gateway for the company, I just don’t understand how taking that hard line punitive stance against commuters would benefit the company. As we have seen from last quarters results, lack of reliability has a cost associated. I don’t see how decreasing reliability and then making our shortage of crew worse by firing people for missing a commute would be a good business strategy.

iPilot
09-09-2019, 01:54 PM
I understand the cost benefit of getting rid of gateway for the company, I just don’t understand how taking that hard line punitive stance against commuters would benefit the company. As we have seen from last quarters results, lack of reliability has a cost associated. I don’t see how decreasing reliability and then making our shortage of crew worse by firing people for missing a commute would be a good business strategy.

Because if they could have it their way pilots would just live in base like every other employee in the world. Commuting is a perk based on tradition, nothing more.

SunnyFL
09-09-2019, 02:01 PM
Incorrect, the 737 has gateway just like every other aircraft now.

Thank you very much!

SunnyFL
09-09-2019, 02:02 PM
Both Southern fleets are now “Gateway” based. CVG is a 737/777 base and LAX is a smaller 777 base.

Thank you very much!

City0090015
09-09-2019, 02:43 PM
Direct from the union that Atlas purposefully overflew hundreds of pilots to guarantee they wouldn’t lose those pilots to other airlines. AIMS was purposely shut off to stop the bleeding, and now if the pilots get another job, they have to disclose their violation.
“Atlas, there is a new threat to all of us. That threat is the elevated possibility for an FAA violation due to more irresponsible management in Flight Operations. Apparently, but not surprising, this time, the company has been unable to properly administer or supervise AIMS as it had guaranteed the FAA it could do during the program certification process. You see, AIMS was the essential component when Atlas got permission to operate both under FAR Parts 121 & 117. It seems, over some period of time, the flags that guard against FAR violations were taken down or ignored entirely, thereby putting at least 100 Atlas pilots’ ATP certificates in jeopardy with the FAA. For years the union has had reports of flags being ignored or taken down, but we have been unable to definitively verify these reports until now. The company, at some point, self-disclosed these hundreds of FAR violations to the FAA and only after official disclosure did it inform the individual pilots of the situation that originated with the company alone. This whole episode is just another example of the irresponsible way the Atlas corporate management conducts itself.”

Turbine1
09-09-2019, 04:07 PM
Direct from the union that Atlas purposefully overflew hundreds of pilots to guarantee they wouldn’t lose those pilots to other airlines. AIMS was purposely shut off to stop the bleeding, and now if the pilots get another job, they have to disclose their violation.
“Atlas, there is a new threat to all of us. That threat is the elevated possibility for an FAA violation due to more irresponsible management in Flight Operations. Apparently, but not surprising, this time, the company has been unable to properly administer or supervise AIMS as it had guaranteed the FAA it could do during the program certification process. You see, AIMS was the essential component when Atlas got permission to operate both under FAR Parts 121 & 117. It seems, over some period of time, the flags that guard against FAR violations were taken down or ignored entirely, thereby putting at least 100 Atlas pilots’ ATP certificates in jeopardy with the FAA. For years the union has had reports of flags being ignored or taken down, but we have been unable to definitively verify these reports until now. The company, at some point, self-disclosed these hundreds of FAR violations to the FAA and only after official disclosure did it inform the individual pilots of the situation that originated with the company alone. This whole episode is just another example of the irresponsible way the Atlas corporate management conducts itself.”


The company is not concerned with the well being of their pilots, their safety and now certificates. Just move the metal peasant, oh and sorry about that letter of investigation you'll be getting from the FAA, but we got the plane to point B didn't we?

Atlas also left their crews to relax in the Garden Hotel in Narita during a super typhoon this week when other airlines evacuated. We still have crewmembers in that hotel going on 28 hours with no power in 97 degree heat. The company hasn't bothered to check on them. Can't be losing that cheap block of rooms for our crews you know..

Word from some of our station managers is we're losing up to 9 of our most reliable 767's to ATI shortly. Looks like Amazon has reached the end of their patience.

Atrasaty
09-09-2019, 05:45 PM
Atlas Air would collapse within a week without a gateway program. Period.

WhipWhitaker
09-09-2019, 06:45 PM
Atlas Air would collapse within a week without a gateway program. Period.

Agreed completely. Southern wouldn’t last 2 days. That’s why I don’t buy that they will ever get rid of it.

Turbine1
09-09-2019, 07:01 PM
Atlas Air would collapse within a week without a gateway program. Period.

That assumes the executives don’t live in a bubble. They only know Atlas ran just fine with limited to no gateway from 92 to 2011. That it’s no longer a pilot bear market doesn’t factor. They’ll save millions and new hires will continue to outpace attrition. There’s no shortage of people wanting a crack at flying a 747 or 777. Till applications stop coming in they have everything to gain by losing gateway.

Atrasaty
09-09-2019, 07:35 PM
That assumes the executives don’t live in a bubble. They only know Atlas ran just fine with limited to no gateway from 92 to 2011. That it’s no longer a pilot bear market doesn’t factor. They’ll save millions and new hires will continue to outpace attrition. There’s no shortage of people wanting a crack at flying a 747 or 777. Till applications stop coming in they have everything to gain by losing gateway.

Not trying to be argumentative and my memory is directly proportional to my enthusiasm for this dumpster fire of an airline, i.e. Fading fast. From what I remember Atlas was all gateway, including the ALPA pilots based in STN by mid 07 ish and Polar were still using the travel bank system. Everyone was Gateway under this great amalgamated contract when it was shoved up our posteriors. It was a much smaller airline back then and now logistically 2000+ pilots trying to JS to work with virtually no domestic system of our own to utilize would be a disaster. Do you think Connie would be buying his guys tickets if he thought it wasn't necessary to keep his operation moving? The threat of removing gateway is just that, a threat to use as a bargaining chip. I say take it away..... we wouldn't last a week in business. They would lose everything by taking it away.

Edit to add. Pilot hating Hete at ATSG even provides tickets to ATI and Omni pilots. Legacy ABX never had travel but before they got the shaft they had a real airline contract and an extensive domestic network to get to work on. Hete is refusing to update their contract because he is a vengeful POS. By and large gateway/home basing/travel is the cost of doing business in this segment and built into the ACMI/CMI/charter/MOD contracts. It's not a benefit.....medical/retirement are benefits.

rv8builder
09-09-2019, 09:00 PM
Direct from the union that Atlas purposefully overflew hundreds of pilots .....

Reminds me of when Southern advised its pilots in 2012 that they had a new interpretation of the supplemental long-haul crew requirements- as in it's just fine to fly over 8 hours with only 2 pilots and over 12 with only three...

Fast forward a couple months, they had to publish another bulletin saying the FAA didn't agree with their interpretation after all (lol) and they had to self-disclose all pilots who violated the FAR.

Shady Shady Shady...

DC8DRIVER
09-09-2019, 09:53 PM
Atlas Air would collapse within a week without a gateway program. Period.

Once there was this airine called DHL Airways. They were the sole provider of lift in the U. S. for DHL. Co-founder Larry Hillblom used to jumpseat on their planes. Fast forward to the 2000's and now the Germans own DHL and have bought Airborne (now ABX). Not to worry, though, DHL Airways (now called Astar) was owned 49% by DHL corporate and with 500+ pilots they wouldn't replace us. They COULDN'T replace us.

In 2010 Astar furloughed 400 pilots. In 2011 they ceased operations and put the rest of the 500+ pilots on the street. Their flying was taken over by ATI, ABX, Atlas, and others with little fanfare and no loss of sleep by the managements of all the entities involved.

In the aftermath, 5 Astar pilots had taken thier own lives due to the stresses of being discarded like yesterday's leftovers.
It can happen when you have soulless management.
Don't think it can't happen to you.

wjcandee
09-09-2019, 10:25 PM
Word from some of our station managers is we're losing up to 9 of our most reliable 767's to ATI shortly. Looks like Amazon has reached the end of their patience.

Interesting rumour.

By Peak, ATI will have added 6 767-300s in 2019, and absorbed an increased tempo in Amazon non-peak flying. They will be adding at least 4 767-300s for Amazon next year.

Apparently, they have (or will have) sufficient pilots and support infrastructure and personnel to execute that flying; adding 9 aircraft very-rapidly on top of that would be a challenge. I don't suppose, however, that Amazon would try to transition a bunch of aircraft all at once.

And it is also possible that ABX could be called upon to operate some of them. Until Amazon increased the flying of the Amazon-dry-leased ABX 767-200s to support the ILN sort, ABX was looking at a reduction in hours for its pilots due to the loss of a couple of one/two-plane contracts. Now, it seems like its pilots are pretty-busy, and ABX is running more than six frames simultaneously for Amazon. (It looks more like 8.) However, given that at least one more non-Amazon/DHL customer has expressed an intent to switch carriers and idle at least one ABX aircraft, it seems like they could handle some more business.

I don't think any right-thinking person would wish to see Atlas lose any Amazon 767s due to concerns about performance. At some point, the shareholders have to demand a halt to Atlas's apparent strategy.

I also personally think (and maybe it's a pipe-dream) that Atlas could do a lot to improve relations by, contract or not, getting its house in order in Crew Scheduling/Operations. Making the commitment to clean house there and get things running like they do at any other successful carrier of Atlas's size, where pilots feel treated consistently like important assets, would be Job One if anybody were ever dumb enough to hand me the keys to the executive washroom.

FWIW, N1049A has been at ILN for a few days, but I assumed it was either for maintenance (odd but possible as AMES did work on the Atlas/DHL 767-200s) or to get ready for Atlas to start flying some ILN turns.

nitefreight
09-09-2019, 10:30 PM
Before that, in 2001, there was an airline that flew red and green airplanes -- 41 DC-8s and 7 DC-10s (I'm sure you know who). Less than a year after getting the equivalent of the DHL contract, their evil money-grubbing parent company decided to convince the FAA to shut them down as an excuse to contract out all the work. 501 crewmembers were replace over the weekend by Ryan Int'l, Express.Net, World, Kalitta, Gemini, ICC and others. History repeats itself often in this ruthless business.

RyeMex
09-10-2019, 03:15 AM
Atlas Air would collapse within a week without a gateway program. Period.

Maybe. However, that doesn't change the fact that management's position at the negotiating table for the past couple of years has been that Gateway will not be in the next CBA.

Lockheed
09-10-2019, 05:46 AM
Not trying to be argumentative and my memory is directly proportional to my enthusiasm for this dumpster fire of an airline, i.e. Fading fast. From what I remember Atlas was all gateway, including the ALPA pilots based in STN by mid 07 ish and Polar were still using the travel bank system. Everyone was Gateway under this great amalgamated contract when it was shoved up our posteriors. It was a much smaller airline back then and now logistically 2000+ pilots trying to JS to work with virtually no domestic system of our own to utilize would be a disaster. Do you think Connie would be buying his guys tickets if he thought it wasn't necessary to keep his operation moving? The threat of removing gateway is just that, a threat to use as a bargaining chip. I say take it away..... we wouldn't last a week in business. They would lose everything by taking it away.

Edit to add. Pilot hating Hete at ATSG even provides tickets to ATI and Omni pilots. Legacy ABX never had travel but before they got the shaft they had a real airline contract and an extensive domestic network to get to work on. Hete is refusing to update their contract because he is a vengeful POS. By and large gateway/home basing/travel is the cost of doing business in this segment and built into the ACMI/CMI/charter/MOD contracts. It's not a benefit.....medical/retirement are benefits.

A most excellent post

Lockheed
09-10-2019, 05:48 AM
Once there was this airine called DHL Airways. They were the sole provider of lift in the U. S. for DHL. Co-founder Larry Hillblom used to jumpseat on their planes. Fast forward to the 2000's and now the Germans own DHL and have bought Airborne (now ABX). Not to worry, though, DHL Airways (now called Astar) was owned 49% by DHL corporate and with 500+ pilots they wouldn't replace us. They COULDN'T replace us.

In 2010 Astar furloughed 400 pilots. In 2011 they ceased operations and put the rest of the 500+ pilots on the street. Their flying was taken over by ATI, ABX, Atlas, and others with little fanfare and no loss of sleep by the managements of all the entities involved.

In the aftermath, 5 Astar pilots had taken thier own lives due to the stresses of being discarded like yesterday's leftovers.
It can happen when you have soulless management.
Don't think it can't happen to you.

those were sad days indeed

Atrasaty
09-10-2019, 06:36 AM
Maybe. However, that doesn't change the fact that management's position at the negotiating table for the past couple of years has been that Gateway will not be in the next CBA.

My point is that it is a tactical position, a bargaining chip that in my opinion I being used to scare Crewmembers into pressuring the negotiators. My contention is that we cannot operate without it and they know that full well but hey.... It's a free joker card they think they can use.

Some great history raised on this thread that our colleagues who have less than a decade in the business would be well served researching it while making future career choices, updating log books and filling in airline apps. DHL/Airborne/Burlington/Orion etc etc etc. DC8 said "don't think it can't happen to you." I assert it WILL HAPPEN TO US. Regardless of the outcome of contract negotiations it is my opinion, and mine alone that in 3 years AAWH will exist but Atlas/Polar/Southern will bear little to no resemblance to the operation (or lack there of) that we see today. AAWH executives have NO interest in running an airline, it's too difficult for them. The big payday they got from the initial Amazon deal demonstrated the wealth they can accrue overnight by selling out. Our near retirement age former Nortwest flight ops mismanagement team are so far out of their depth it would be laughable if lives had not been already lost. I apologize for my bleak outlook, this is just my opinion and I really look forward to some more optimistic counter contentions.

Best of luck to all. WE are the union.

Screwed
09-10-2019, 07:22 AM
My point is that it is a tactical position, a bargaining chip that in my opinion I being used to scare Crewmembers into pressuring the negotiators. My contention is that we cannot operate without it and they know that full well but hey.... It's a free joker card they think they can use.

Some great history raised on this thread that our colleagues who have less than a decade in the business would be well served researching it while making future career choices, updating log books and filling in airline apps. DHL/Airborne/Burlington/Orion etc etc etc. DC8 said "don't think it can't happen to you." I assert it WILL HAPPEN TO US. Regardless of the outcome of contract negotiations it is my opinion, and mine alone that in 3 years AAWH will exist but Atlas/Polar/Southern will bear little to no resemblance to the operation (or lack there of) that we see today. AAWH executives have NO interest in running an airline, it's too difficult for them. The big payday they got from the initial Amazon deal demonstrated the wealth they can accrue overnight by selling out. Our near retirement age former Nortwest flight ops mismanagement team are so far out of their depth it would be laughable if lives had not been already lost. I apologize for my bleak outlook, this is just my opinion and I really look forward to some more optimistic counter contentions.

Best of luck to all. WE are the union.

Your post is the optimistic contention.

When you have to pay senior managers $1.5 million dollars in retention bonuses plus their already ridiculous salaries and benefits; because Dietrich is the new CEO; then you know there is no future for Atlas pilots.

Atrasaty
09-10-2019, 08:33 AM
During my complimentary follow up call to the Psychic Network, Miss Clarissa also revealed to me that K4 will grow more then 50% within 4 years and will end up operating several 74/77 airframes currently on and or destined for the PO/5Y/SA certificate. She said something about it being run by airline people, not lawyers and speculators. :D

JackStraw
09-10-2019, 09:22 AM
No one cares about Kalitta.

AboveMins
09-10-2019, 09:43 AM
Well, if gateway is taken away and not replaced with home basing, I'd tender my resignation immediately... As would most of the other pilots I've flown with here. Enjoy the implosion.

Globemaster2827
09-10-2019, 11:00 AM
Because if they could have it their way pilots would just live in base like every other employee in the world. Commuting is a perk based on tradition, nothing more.

Pilots commute at other airlines too... At FedEx about 2/3rds of the pilots commute. There are ways to get it done with commuter clauses buy I'd never give that up if I were yall. You'd get cents on the dollar for it.

Globemaster2827
09-10-2019, 11:04 AM
The company is not concerned with the well being of their pilots, their safety and now certificates. Just move the metal peasant, oh and sorry about that letter of investigation you'll be getting from the FAA, but we got the plane to point B didn't we?

Atlas also left their crews to relax in the Garden Hotel in Narita during a super typhoon this week when other airlines evacuated. We still have crewmembers in that hotel going on 28 hours with no power in 97 degree heat. The company hasn't bothered to check on them. Can't be losing that cheap block of rooms for our crews you know..

Word from some of our station managers is we're losing up to 9 of our most reliable 767's to ATI shortly. Looks like Amazon has reached the end of their patience.

If that's true then your airline is properly staffed now. That's 120 pilots right there that they don't need.

The problem is that there is still incentive to work at Atlas and new hires think the upgrade times are short which gets you to UPS or FedEx quicker. I wonder how long it's going to take guys to upgrade now that they just eliminated 65-70 Captain slots? It won't be 2 years.

Globemaster2827
09-10-2019, 11:18 AM
During my complimentary follow up call to the Psychic Network, Miss Clarissa also revealed to me that K4 will grow more then 50% within 4 years and will end up operating several 74/77 airframes currently on and or destined for the PO/5Y/SA certificate. She said something about it being run by airline people, not lawyers and speculators. :D

That makes sense. Whipsaw. Plus you guys seem happy with your contract. If your Captains and most of your FOs really are happy then it should be pretty easy to expand yall to carry their lift.... Until yall get irritated. This seems to be the history of ACMI.

bajadaydreamer
09-10-2019, 12:19 PM
Direct from the union that Atlas purposefully overflew hundreds of pilots to guarantee they wouldn’t lose those pilots to other airlines. AIMS was purposely shut off to stop the bleeding, and now if the pilots get another job, they have to disclose their violation.
“Atlas, there is a new threat to all of us. That threat is the elevated possibility for an FAA violation due to more irresponsible management in Flight Operations. Apparently, but not surprising, this time, the company has been unable to properly administer or supervise AIMS as it had guaranteed the FAA it could do during the program certification process. You see, AIMS was the essential component when Atlas got permission to operate both under FAR Parts 121 & 117. It seems, over some period of time, the flags that guard against FAR violations were taken down or ignored entirely, thereby putting at least 100 Atlas pilots’ ATP certificates in jeopardy with the FAA. For years the union has had reports of flags being ignored or taken down, but we have been unable to definitively verify these reports until now. The company, at some point, self-disclosed these hundreds of FAR violations to the FAA and only after official disclosure did it inform the individual pilots of the situation that originated with the company alone. This whole episode is just another example of the irresponsible way the Atlas corporate management conducts itself.”

Is this a troll post? I have not heard anything from the union

bajadaydreamer
09-10-2019, 12:35 PM
Direct from the union that Atlas purposefully overflew hundreds of pilots to guarantee they wouldn’t lose those pilots to other airlines. AIMS was purposely shut off to stop the bleeding, and now if the pilots get another job, they have to disclose their violation.
“Atlas, there is a new threat to all of us. That threat is the elevated possibility for an FAA violation due to more irresponsible management in Flight Operations. Apparently, but not surprising, this time, the company has been unable to properly administer or supervise AIMS as it had guaranteed the FAA it could do during the program certification process. You see, AIMS was the essential component when Atlas got permission to operate both under FAR Parts 121 & 117. It seems, over some period of time, the flags that guard against FAR violations were taken down or ignored entirely, thereby putting at least 100 Atlas pilots’ ATP certificates in jeopardy with the FAA. For years the union has had reports of flags being ignored or taken down, but we have been unable to definitively verify these reports until now. The company, at some point, self-disclosed these hundreds of FAR violations to the FAA and only after official disclosure did it inform the individual pilots of the situation that originated with the company alone. This whole episode is just another example of the irresponsible way the Atlas corporate management conducts itself.”

Is this a troll post? I have not heard anything from the union

JonnyKnoxville
09-10-2019, 12:37 PM
Is this a troll post? I have not heard anything from the union

The quoted portion of his post is quoted directly from the Chairman's Update that came out in an email yesterday.

bajadaydreamer
09-10-2019, 12:44 PM
The quoted portion of his post is quoted directly from the Chairman's Update that came out in an email yesterday.

Maybe it only went to atlas and not Southern. The last teamster email I got was 8/29 on negotiations

Fillmore Slim
09-10-2019, 03:36 PM
Is this a troll post? I have not heard anything from the union

You might want to check your email spam folder then. I received it also. It's bad enough that were responsible for virtually every other facet of our business. Filling out TERs? Checking our disgusting catering to make sure there's no bugs. Hoping my pattern travel and hotels are booked. Figuring out how to call a cab because I've been stranded in India.

Now we can add ensuring my pattern is always legal because the company can't. Can't I just be responsible for the aircraft? Truly shameful.

bajadaydreamer
09-10-2019, 05:39 PM
You might want to check your email spam folder then. I received it also. It's bad enough that were responsible for virtually every other facet of our business. Filling out TERs? Checking our disgusting catering to make sure there's no bugs. Hoping my pattern travel and hotels are booked. Figuring out how to call a cab because I've been stranded in India.

Now we can add ensuring my pattern is always legal because the company can't. Can't I just be responsible for the aircraft? Truly shameful.

Maybe because I am Southern I didnt get one. My last teamster email was 8/29 about Negotiations

nitefr8dog
09-10-2019, 07:00 PM
Pretty sure no commuter clause pay protects you....please enlighten me if there is.....otherwise everyone would be taking the last flight of the night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ABX requires 2 backup flights...prevents you from taking the last one but if you can't get to work on those 3..you at least do not get canned/missed trip. Also if riding on the ABX/DHL system and confirm your jumpseat 24 hrs prior and get bumped or mechanical..you also do not get a missed trip.

GeelErmo
09-11-2019, 08:22 AM
FWIW, N1049A has been at ILN for a few days, but I assumed it was either for maintenance (odd but possible as AMES did work on the Atlas/DHL 767-200s) or to get ready for Atlas to start flying some ILN turns.

3056/3046 ILN-IAH-ILN from 9/14th will be operating by Atlas crews.

ItnStln
09-11-2019, 11:09 AM
Before that, in 2001, there was an airline that flew red and green airplanes -- 41 DC-8s and 7 DC-10s (I'm sure you know who).

Which airline was that?

Lockheed
09-11-2019, 11:45 AM
Which airline was that?

Emery Worldwide

SunnyFL
09-11-2019, 12:06 PM
I was thinking about applying for the 737 position but from what I have seen it seems like things are rough right now at Atlas/Southern. Would anywhere care to PM privately that does any of the 737 flying. Just curious what the schedule is like, pros, cons etc.

I appreciate any input.

Pirates cove
09-11-2019, 01:48 PM
My buddy that’s still there, said you guys lost two 767 to ATI. Tail 1049 and 1439 or something along those lines.
Man that sucks. I see atlas has not changed.

Kingairguy08
09-11-2019, 03:15 PM
My buddy that’s still there, said you guys lost two 767 to ATI. Tail 1049 and 1439 or something along those lines.

Man that sucks. I see atlas has not changed.They are going through conformity checks as we speak.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

wjcandee
09-11-2019, 03:48 PM
RE Amazon maybe tranferring the operation of 1049A and 1439A to ATI.

They are going through conformity checks as we speak.

Well, 1439A is still being operated by Atlas, as of a couple of hours ago.

1049A has been at ILN for 5 days, having flown in last Friday night under a 9xxx flight number.

I thought that movement might have something to do with the fact that GTI will shortly begin to fly one or more Amazon routes out of ILN. Or (less likely) for maintenance. I also realized that its presence at ILN could fit the rumor about Amazon taking the operation of some of its dry-leased aircraft away from Atlas, but that seemed too convenient. Maybe not. Maybe it's at ILN for ATI conformity. Still, that really seems beyond-the-beyond.

As nothing has been announced, it's still a rumor, although there sure is a lot of smoke.

And, for what it's worth, the rumor about Amazon pulling some flying from Atlas also fits the rumor of "something big and hush-hush" happening soon at Kalitta. (I wouldn't dare lay odds on that, of course, particularly after Connie's legendary initial response to Amazon's inquiries, but it does at least generally fit...)

And has anyone noticed the deafening silence from the ABX folks who post on here? Don't know what that's about, but it does seem weird, like going out for the paper one morning and finding your whole neighborhood deserted...

CardboardCutout
09-11-2019, 04:31 PM
ATSG sends so much as a kite to ABX and people around here are going to lose their minds.

iPilot
09-11-2019, 08:49 PM
You all realize ATSG is one of the very few maintenance centers in the world that can do the aft bulkhead replacement right? My money is on 1049A coming due for it and instead of sending the plane half way around the world to get it done they just went with ATSG. Might as well keep it all in the family anyway. As for why they'd do it now and not when they carved the plane into a freighter who knows. The fact that half the planes came to us without ADS-B or even GPS and all manner of non-standard cockpits makes me think they just wanted to get them out the door ASAP. Stuff like the bulkhead could wait until its next C-check.

tengssuuciurta
09-11-2019, 09:17 PM
You all realize ATSG is one of the very few maintenance centers in the world that can do the aft bulkhead replacement right? My money is on 1049A coming due for it and instead of sending the plane half way around the world to get it done they just went with ATSG. Might as well keep it all in the family anyway. As for why they'd do it now and not when they carved the plane into a freighter who knows. The fact that half the planes came to us without ADS-B or even GPS and all manner of non-standard cockpits makes me think they just wanted to get them out the door ASAP. Stuff like the bulkhead could wait until its next C-check.

Hush now, the sky is supposed to be falling.

Elevation
09-12-2019, 12:50 AM
Hush now, the sky is supposed to be falling.

There's a lot going wrong here that's supported by solid evidence. Not sure about the 767 to ATSG thing.

Pirates cove
09-12-2019, 04:59 PM
Just to clarify, he said one is in Wilmington getting transferred. The other in TPA, leaves on the 22nd for ATI.

wjcandee
09-12-2019, 05:28 PM
Just to clarify, he said one is in Wilmington getting transferred. The other in TPA, leaves on the 22nd for ATI.

Sad to say, it appears increasingly-likely, short of a formal announcement, that he is correct.

wjcandee
09-13-2019, 10:14 AM
Well, here we go. Remarkable. According to CargoFacts, the transfer of CMI operation of at least two Amazon-dry-leased 767-300Fs from Atlas to "another provider" has been confirmed by Atlas. It's understood from other information that the provider is ATI.

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/logistics/carriers/amazon-reduces-767f-cmi-flying-with-atlas-transfers-aircraft-to-another-operator/

FWIW, this doesn't necessarily mean that Amazon is per se dissatisfied with Atlas's current performance. Another possibility is that Amazon wanted to significantly-increase the flying tempo of the Atlas-operated fleet, as it has with ABX Air and ATI, and Atlas wasn't able fully to staff the increase in tempo for all 20-ish aircraft because of its difficulty hiring, training and retaining 767 crews.

[thanks to my friend velorouge for bringing the url to my attention]

ItnStln
09-13-2019, 10:27 AM
Emery Worldwide

Thanks!
filler

Turbine1
09-13-2019, 10:53 AM
Well, here we go. Remarkable. According to CargoFacts, the transfer of CMI operation of at least two Amazon-dry-leased 767-300Fs from Atlas to "another provider" has been confirmed by Atlas. It's understood from other information that the provider is ATI.

https://cargofacts.com/allposts/logistics/carriers/amazon-reduces-767f-cmi-flying-with-atlas-transfers-aircraft-to-another-operator/

FWIW, this doesn't necessarily mean that Amazon is per se dissatisfied with Atlas's current performance. Another possibility is that Amazon wanted to significantly-increase the flying tempo of the Atlas-operated fleet, as it has with ABX Air and ATI, and Atlas wasn't able fully to staff the increase in tempo for all 20-ish aircraft because of its difficulty hiring, training and retaining 767 crews.

[thanks to my friend velorouge for bringing the url to my attention]

It’s the first shot across the bow of the AAWH pilot group. Keep resisting another non ratified 60% below industry standard CBA and kiss your jobs goodbye. Interesting this comes two days after Teamsters 1224 filed in district court to vacate the arbitration award. So now the flying will go to ATI the next lowest paid and only non Teamsters airline in the ATSG/AAWH stable. The whipsaw has begun, and it’s about to get real ugly. I expect furloughs next year to ratchet up the pressure some more. Who will blink first, AAWH mgt or Teamsters? Time will tell.

sandman22
09-13-2019, 11:07 AM
It’s the first shot across the bow of the AAWH pilot group. Keep resisting another non ratified 60% below industry standard CBA and kiss your jobs goodbye. Interesting this comes two days after Teamsters 1224 filed in district court to vacate the arbitration award. So now the flying will go to ATI the next lowest paid and only non Teamsters airline in the ATSG/AAWH stable. The whipsaw has begun, and it’s about to get real ugly. I expect furloughs next year to ratchet up the pressure some more. Who will blink first, AAWH mgt or Teamsters? Time will tell.

If management thinks we care or are rattled by this then they're even dumber than we originally thought

wjcandee
09-13-2019, 11:18 AM
If management thinks we care or are rattled by this then they're even dumber than we originally thought

Candidly, I don't personally think that that's what's going on, perhaps because this would be an uber-stupid strategy, even from these guys. I think it's more Amazon putting pressure on management to keep its commitments than it is management doing anything. As fiduciaries to their shareholders, management would have had to have tried to resist the transfers. Whether it's Amazon being dissatisfied with the current performance or Atlas not being able to increase the tempo of operations to the level that Amazon wants due to insufficient pilot pool, I believe that this is an Amazon-Atlas thing, not a management-pilot thing, per se (although the issues are intertwined, of course). It's a fair possibility that the purpose of the transfer is to spread the available pilots across fewer aircraft, and thereby permit an increased tempo per-aircraft.

I think that management has dealt with 1224's scorched-earth negotiating strategy so ineffectively, and the relationship has become so poisoned, that some folks are expecting zebras rather than horses when they hear hooves.

Positional bargaining is not ever going to resolve the pilot labor issues. Somebody in management ought to go take a "getting to yes" course.

Jurassic Jet
09-13-2019, 11:51 AM
The whipsaw has begun, and it’s about to get real ugly.


Just wait until Mesa comes into the mix. :eek:

742Dash
09-13-2019, 12:39 PM
It’s the first shot across the bow of the AAWH pilot group. Keep resisting another non ratified 60% below industry standard CBA and kiss your jobs goodbye. Interesting this comes two days after Teamsters 1224 filed in district court to vacate the arbitration award. So now the flying will go to ATI the next lowest paid and only non Teamsters airline in the ATSG/AAWH stable. The whipsaw has begun, and it’s about to get real ugly. I expect furloughs next year to ratchet up the pressure some more. Who will blink first, AAWH mgt or Teamsters? Time will tell.

You are over thinking this.

Atlas is a contractor. And in this case a contractor doing a ****ty job, so the work goes someplace else. That is all. There is no reason to be imagining conspiracies and dark plans.

ROBsINtheHOOD
09-13-2019, 02:04 PM
Atlas pilots will themselves know the reasons for Amazon’s reassignment of a/c - poor on time performance , poor sector completion rate , standby a/c and crew availability, etc - it’s not rocket science. If Atlas is unable to satisfy the needs of the customer.... well business is business. It’s too bad management aren’t held accountable and penalized for allowing this to happen. The race to the bottom continues.

crewman
09-13-2019, 02:38 PM
One would assume that management actually cares about the future of the airline, my opinion is they don’t want an airline and want to be a aircraft leasing company only.

boeingdvr
09-13-2019, 02:55 PM
Yeah.

Well- our 767 Upgrade just shot up another 5 years.

But hey, if you don’t believe me come see for yourself.

CardboardCutout
09-13-2019, 03:11 PM
This thread is a good reminder that young people are little know it all punks who have to learn life's lessons the hard way. :D

akpilotguy
09-14-2019, 12:04 AM
This thread is a good reminder that young people are little know it all punks who have to learn life's lessons the hard way. :D

r/boomerhumor