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View Full Version : Southern air


boeingdvr
12-10-2018, 01:04 PM
Now hiring ! More planes on the way.

62 hour min pay
80 bucks an hour.
Night flying

Come on over ASAP. We need you !!!


iropman
12-10-2018, 01:09 PM
Now hiring ! More planes on the way.

62 hour min pay
80 bucks an hour.
Night flying

Come on over ASAP. We need you !!!


I was told min guarantee 1st year is 50 hours...Has something changed? Also how firm is the "more planes on the way"?

boeingdvr
12-10-2018, 01:15 PM
I was told min guarantee 1st year is 50 hours...Has something changed? Also how firm is the "more planes on the way"?

50 hours for 5 months. Then 62.

More planes. It's the airlines. That's how MGMT gets new hires. The CARROT


PotatoChip
12-10-2018, 03:29 PM
If you need me that bad can I get my seniority and longevity back from when I was furloughed after only eight months on property and then offered a recall two years later with a pay cut?!
That should put me at year seven pay.

Birdsmash
12-10-2018, 03:32 PM
If you need me that bad can I get my seniority and longevity back from when I was furloughed after only eight months on property and then offered a recall two years later with a pay cut?!
That should put me at year seven pay.

Don’t bother. You didn’t burn bridges you nuked them! Good luck in your future endeavors.

Birdsmash
12-10-2018, 03:36 PM
I was told min guarantee 1st year is 50 hours...Has something changed? Also how firm is the "more planes on the way"?

Boeingdvr is punking everyone.

PotatoChip
12-10-2018, 03:37 PM
Don’t bother. You didn’t burn bridges you nuked them! Good luck in your future endeavors.

And you had to create a new username you were so disliked. Here we are...
And it wasn’t a serious question. Seven years on property would put me a 737 captain flying min guarantee making less than I make now as a regional captain on second year pay. What a joke.

Birdsmash
12-10-2018, 03:43 PM
And you had to create a new username you were so disliked. Here we are...
And it wasn’t a serious question. Seven years on property would put me a 737 captain flying min guarantee making less than I make now as a regional captain on second year pay. What a joke.

Nope I lost my previous account. Haven’t you gotten your dream job yet? Wasn’t it FDX and now SWA or is it Delta? I mean come on it’s owed to you isn’t it? You shouldn’t have to stick with one job that’s less than ideal. You should just get hired right at the top because you are Potatochip and deserve special treatment. Furloughs unfortunately are part of this career.

My point is if you had followed the normal pilot pathway you probably would be at one of your dream jobs. Lots of Southern pilots hired after you have done just that. You jump from one airline to another and get no where.

You sir are a poor career decision maker

PotatoChip
12-10-2018, 03:48 PM
Nope I lost my previous account. Haven’t you gotten your dream job yet? Wasn’t it FDX and now SWA or is it Delta? I mean come on it’s owed to you isn’t it? You shouldn’t have to stick with one job that’s less than ideal. You should just get hired right at the top because you are Potatochip and deserve special treatment. Furloughs unfortunately are part of this career.

My point is if you had followed the normal pilot pathway you probably would be at one of your dream jobs. Lots of Southern pilots hired after you have done just that. You jump from one airline to another and get no where.

You sir are a poor career decision maker

You are obviously clueless. Thank you for the laugh, though.
There’s a reason I’ve avoided Southern threads, and you are a part of it. I’m glad to know you’ve been following me around APC, though, good to know you can’t let me go.

Birdsmash
12-10-2018, 03:57 PM
You are obviously clueless. Thank you for the laugh, though.
There’s a reason I’ve avoided Southern threads, and you are a part of it. I’m glad to know you’ve been following me around APC, though, good to know you can’t let me go.

I’ve just been curious how things have worked out for you. My answer: as expected.

boeingdvr
12-10-2018, 04:24 PM
Let's go. We need you in class for 1200 bucks a month for 5 months. Then living large at 62 hours an 80 bucks and hour.

We don't break 62 around here. 1/2 day = 1/2 pay. Bring it !

JonnyKnoxville
12-11-2018, 05:35 PM
Let's go. We need you in class for 1200 bucks a month for 5 months. Then living large at 62 hours an 80 bucks and hour.

We don't break 62 around here. 1/2 day = 1/2 pay. Bring it !

It is 50 hours for guarantee.

First year pay, expect to make: $38,240
Second and Third year pay, expect to make: $59,222
(no raise from 2nd to 3rd year)

Accumulation of flight hours is minimal with 200 hours of flight time on average a year.

FlyPurdue
12-12-2018, 05:55 AM
The FB Live Q&A from last week said 777 pilots fly ~80 hours a month.

Is that accurate at all?

thesandbox
12-12-2018, 06:09 AM
The FB Live Q&A from last week said 777 pilots fly ~80 hours a month.

Is that accurate at all?


Possible since they are out 20 days a month but no upgrades in sight and still crap pay of $80/hr with a whopping pay raise at year 2 to $92 bucks an hour flying a 777 around the globe in circles. You can get $113/hr at Omni to start.

JackStraw
12-12-2018, 06:15 AM
The FB Live Q&A from last week said 777 pilots fly ~80 hours a month.

Is that accurate at all?

Southern is literally the worst paying job out there. Absolute bottom of the barrel. Unless 4 DUIs are preventing you from going anywhere else I would stay away.

boeingdvr
12-13-2018, 04:46 AM
The FB Live Q&A from last week said 777 pilots fly ~80 hours a month.

Is that accurate at all?

Yes !! 80 hours. That's less than what you will Credit flying a CRJ-900 @ Mesa Airlines.

We need you to come here- fly a 20 day trip around the world ( 3 times ) flying HAZMAT, making DHL / Atlas Billions, and in return they will give you 80 credit hour at 80 bucks an hour!!!

Class starts Monday. !!

skiddriver
01-10-2019, 11:42 AM
So I read tons of neg posts... makes Southern 777 opportunity look pretty concerning.... straight scoop please...

Am I to understand you can get paid less than Min-G (62 hours)? How does that work....

I am at a regional getting maybe 45 -55 Hours a month after losing flights to displacement etc.... I feel like flying a 777 at rates that appear much higher than regional FO pay would be a great opportunity... But reading posts makes it seem like that’s a very wrong thought on my end!

I am military and need more Turbine time to be competitive at what I feel would be my desired career airlines...I would like to get some Cargo experience as I truly believe I would prefer nights and straight trips 15-17 days rather than broken 4 on 2-3 off with passengers.... but again.... everyone seems to be so Neg about this... inputs please; real data...

JonnyKnoxville
01-10-2019, 12:29 PM
So I read tons of neg posts... makes Southern 777 opportunity look pretty concerning.... straight scoop please...

Am I to understand you can get paid less than Min-G (62 hours)? How does that work....

I am at a regional getting maybe 45 -55 Hours a month after losing flights to displacement etc.... I feel like flying a 777 at rates that appear much higher than regional FO pay would be a great opportunity... But reading posts makes it seem like that’s a very wrong thought on my end!

I am military and need more Turbine time to be competitive at what I feel would be my desired career airlines...I would like to get some Cargo experience as I truly believe I would prefer nights and straight trips 15-17 days rather than broken 4 on 2-3 off with passengers.... but again.... everyone seems to be so Neg about this... inputs please; real data...

First year guarantee is 50 hours.

The pay rates may look better but the details of the contract absolutely kill the pay. Almost everyone who came from the regionals, myself included, had a significantly better contract at the regionals.

One of many examples:

We do not have bid line protection. So, I could bid a 80 hour line and maybe get awarded it. Once awarded, my schedule changes, as they often do, and I now am scheduled to fly 65 hours. I would only get paid for my new schedule.

The only money you can count on under this CBA is guarantee. 50 hours for first year, 62 hours for every year after. Budgeting for anything more than that will leave you very disappointed.

B777 will build you time. B737 will be the kiss of death. A few short legs where you will build 200-300 hours a year at most.

skiddriver
01-10-2019, 12:55 PM
Great info. Thank you....

Still more than I get paid at Regional but I understand your point...

JackStraw
01-10-2019, 12:57 PM
So I read tons of neg posts... makes Southern 777 opportunity look pretty concerning.... straight scoop please...

Am I to understand you can get paid less than Min-G (62 hours)? How does that work....

I am at a regional getting maybe 45 -55 Hours a month after losing flights to displacement etc.... I feel like flying a 777 at rates that appear much higher than regional FO pay would be a great opportunity... But reading posts makes it seem like that’s a very wrong thought on my end!

I am military and need more Turbine time to be competitive at what I feel would be my desired career airlines...I would like to get some Cargo experience as I truly believe I would prefer nights and straight trips 15-17 days rather than broken 4 on 2-3 off with passengers.... but again.... everyone seems to be so Neg about this... inputs please; real data...

With military experience you are overqualified for Southern, even if it’s not jet experience. How many DUIs do you have? There’s a 3 DUI minimum to apply.

Birdsmash
01-10-2019, 04:57 PM
With military experience you are overqualified for Southern, even if it’s not jet experience. How many DUIs do you have? There’s a 3 DUI minimum to apply.
Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and actually say that face to face to a Southern pilot!

kolt66
01-10-2019, 05:20 PM
So I read tons of neg posts... makes Southern 777 opportunity look pretty concerning.... straight scoop please...

Am I to understand you can get paid less than Min-G (62 hours)? How does that work....

I am at a regional getting maybe 45 -55 Hours a month after losing flights to displacement etc.... I feel like flying a 777 at rates that appear much higher than regional FO pay would be a great opportunity... But reading posts makes it seem like that’s a very wrong thought on my end!

I am military and need more Turbine time to be competitive at what I feel would be my desired career airlines...I would like to get some Cargo experience as I truly believe I would prefer nights and straight trips 15-17 days rather than broken 4 on 2-3 off with passengers.... but again.... everyone seems to be so Neg about this... inputs please; real data...

Expect to be gone for 40 days straight at Southern. It happens sometimes.

Why not go to Omni or Kalitta? They get paid wayyy more and Kalitta loves hiring military guys. They're also only gone 16 or 17 days a month. ATI and NAC also get paid a lot more and have better schedules. There are just so many better options.

And then of course there's Allegiant, Spirit, Frontier and probably more that I can't think of right now that all have better schedules and get paid a lot more. Those would all be great choices that would get you to your career destination.

Jurassic Jet
01-10-2019, 06:40 PM
And then of course there's Allegiant, Spirit, Frontier and probably more that I can't think of right now that all have better schedules and get paid a lot more.

Let’s not leave Home Depot, Lowe’s and being a Walmart greeter out of the equation. All of which would be better choices than Southern.

WhipWhitaker
01-10-2019, 07:26 PM
Let’s not leave Home Depot, Lowe’s and being a Walmart greeter out of the equation. All of which would be better choices than Southern.

You should probably stick to info about ABX.

atpcliff
01-10-2019, 07:32 PM
So I read tons of neg posts... makes Southern 777 opportunity look pretty concerning.... straight scoop please...

Am I to understand you can get paid less than Min-G (62 hours)? How does that work....

I am at a regional getting maybe 45 -55 Hours a month after losing flights to displacement etc.... I feel like flying a 777 at rates that appear much higher than regional FO pay would be a great opportunity... But reading posts makes it seem like that’s a very wrong thought on my end!

I am military and need more Turbine time to be competitive at what I feel would be my desired career airlines...I would like to get some Cargo experience as I truly believe I would prefer nights and straight trips 15-17 days rather than broken 4 on 2-3 off with passengers.... but again.... everyone seems to be so Neg about this... inputs please; real data...

I'm not sure about Southern 777, but Atlas 747/767 or Southern 737 you will fly less than you are now.

Some of the regionals are flying a lot...look into switching regionals and taking the bonus for doing so...

DC8DRIVER
01-10-2019, 08:35 PM
Maybe you should step away from the keyboard and actually say that face to face to a Southern pilot!

I'm pretty sure that wasn't a slight towards the Southern guys. Others have said as much about Atlas and I didn't take offense.

Jack is simply saying that Southern's pay and working conditions are so poor that qualified pilots usually head for better jobs at reputable airlines.

skiddriver
01-11-2019, 04:52 AM
I'm not sure about Southern 777, but Atlas 747/767 or Southern 737 you will fly less than you are now.

Some of the regionals are flying a lot...look into switching regionals and taking the bonus for doing so...

Good points; thanks to everyone who is posting legit responses... anyone replying as a 777 guy at southern? Would be interested in knowing how many hours you are getting...

skiddriver
01-11-2019, 06:32 AM
No, not time build.... I would like to fly larger aircraft internationally... I would like to compare the differences between ACMI / Cargo world and my current passenger flying world. At the same time If the hours and pay is more than I am getting now it seems like an opportunity... but again, I am researching and honestly asking questions to hear opinions.... Thanks for sharing thoughts

Diesel8
01-11-2019, 07:51 AM
Funny how no one understands the sarcasm in this thread. You guys need to lighten up.

Do your really think that all the negative things discussed in this thread have changed in a little over a month?

Southern - It is what it is. Will never get better. Never has, never will. It will only get worse. Crew shortages mean that life will only get more miserable. I have already been called at home on days off. They attempted to involuntarily assign me a trip that would chew up my remaining 5-6 days off, which would put me right back on the road for the scheduled trip with no break whatsoever. What's to learn in that?

Married? Family? Not after a turn at SAI.

SAI is not ACMI anymore. It used to be fun when it was. Right now it is one contract, constantly going to the same places over and over. 14+ hour legs, which your are not going to get a lot of experience on. It will be a battle to keep current on your landings. What you will learn is how to sleep on an aircraft, how to get minimal rest when you land - maybe. When you do get a chance to get a longer layover in Hong Kong you will learn how to get your freak on in Wan Chai, get p**s drunk, and put your marriage in jeopardy.

When crews meet the first question to each other is "Did you get any sleep?". No joke.

As to the DUI reference - obviously a joke, you know back to that sarcasm thing. Just remember there is always a bit of truth behind a joke. You can read into that whatever way you want, hic!

CaptDave
01-11-2019, 08:04 AM
Regardless of how you feel about the 73 at Southern, this is a small industry. And the HR people move around just like the pilots do. In fact one of the reasons that HR people like job fairs is that they get to look around for their next job.

It is not a good idea to go off on anyone in the hiring system, to include the van drivers and receptionists.

it wasn’t about the 73. My dream since I was a kid was to be a 737 CA. I love the 73. The issue is, it’s not what I applied for and when the pay was discussed, I just about choked on my coffee. 50hr guarantee at $80/hr? Whoa.

skiddriver
01-11-2019, 08:47 AM
Thanks Diesel8. Appreciate the inputs.

WhipWhitaker
01-11-2019, 09:18 AM
Funny how no one understands the sarcasm in this thread. You guys need to lighten up.

Do your really think that all the negative things discussed in this thread have changed in a little over a month?

Southern - It is what it is. Will never get better. Never has, never will. It will only get worse. Crew shortages mean that life will only get more miserable. I have already been called at home on days off. They attempted to involuntarily assign me a trip that would chew up my remaining 5-6 days off, which would put me right back on the road for the scheduled trip with no break whatsoever. What's to learn in that?

Married? Family? Not after a turn at SAI.

SAI is not ACMI anymore. It used to be fun when it was. Right now it is one contract, constantly going to the same places over and over. 14+ hour legs, which your are not going to get a lot of experience on. It will be a battle to keep current on your landings. What you will learn is how to sleep on an aircraft, how to get minimal rest when you land - maybe. When you do get a chance to get a longer layover in Hong Kong you will learn how to get your freak on in Wan Chai, get p**s drunk, and put your marriage in jeopardy.

When crews meet the first question to each other is "Did you get any sleep?". No joke.

As to the DUI reference - obviously a joke, you know back to that sarcasm thing. Just remember there is always a bit of truth behind a joke. You can read into that whatever way you want, hic!

Don’t lump everyone else into your self induced, pathetic, misery. In the last 6 months you’ve received a substantial raise, improvements in work rules, and in a few more months you’ll be working less days.

kolt66
01-11-2019, 09:50 AM
Don’t lump everyone else into your self induced, pathetic, misery. In the last 6 months you’ve received a substantial raise, improvements in work rules, and in a few more months you’ll be working less days.

Yes, Southern pilots got an increase from the worst contract in the industry to the worst contract in the industry. What I don't understand is why anyone with the worst contact in the industry would be on here actively working against their own pilot group by trying to make it sound like it ain't so bad?

CaptDave
01-11-2019, 11:19 AM
Wow. My post got reported for racism? Lol. It was a jab at the lack of professionalism. Nothing more. Bunch a snowflakes.

Mods, feel free to delete my account from this site. Would hate for anyone else to get offended.

Riverside
01-11-2019, 11:21 AM
Wow. My post got reported for racism? Lol. It was a jab at the lack of professionalism. Nothing more. Bunch a snowflakes.

Mods, feel free to delete my account from this site. Would hate for anyone else to get offended.
They won't delete your account. I tried a few years back.

CaptDave
01-11-2019, 11:22 AM
They won't delete your account. I tried a few years back.

Well that sucks. I can’t find the option in my profile, either. Oh well. Just as easy to not log in anymore, I guess.

CaptDave
01-11-2019, 11:27 AM
And just to clarify to the snowflakes...


Axe: noun
1.
a tool typically used for chopping wood, usually a steel blade attached at a right angle to a wooden handle.
"I started swinging the axe at the lumps of driftwood"
synonyms: hatchet, cleaver; More
2.
INFORMAL
a musical instrument, especially one played by a jazz or rock musician.
verb
1.
end, cancel, or dismiss suddenly and ruthlessly.
"the company is axing 125 jobs"
synonyms: cancel, withdraw, drop, abandon, end, terminate, put an end to, discontinue; More
2.
cut or strike with an axe, especially violently or destructively.
"the door had been axed by the firefighters"


Ask: verb
1.
say something in order to obtain an answer or some information.
"people are always asking questions"
synonyms: inquire (of), query, want to know, question, put a question to, interrogate, quiz, cross-question, cross-examine, catechize; More
2.
request (someone) to do or give something.
"Mary asked her father for money"
synonyms: request, demand, appeal to, apply to, petition, call on, entreat, beg, implore, exhort, urge, enjoin, importune, pray, solicit, beseech, plead with, sue, supplicate; More
noun
1.
US
a request, especially for a donation.
"it was an awkward ask for more funding"


So many pilots are still offended with “your”, “you’re” and “there”, “they’re” and “their” but if someone points out axe vs ask, it’s racist? Hahaha. Pardon me for expecting more professionalism from a profession that claims to be full of professionals. Get over yourselves.

WhipWhitaker
01-11-2019, 11:12 PM
Yes, Southern pilots got an increase from the worst contract in the industry to the worst contract in the industry. What I don't understand is why anyone with the worst contact in the industry would be on here actively working against their own pilot group by trying to make it sound like it ain't so bad?

Are you an Atlas pilot? Are you still here? Regionals are hiring. My QOL here is infinity better than the regional I left and so is the pay. For a young dude this place isn’t that bad, and a good place to hang while you wait for purple and brown. YMMV

aviatorhi
01-12-2019, 02:53 AM
And just to call you out for the obvious racial undertones in your initial post (which I did not report but was hard to avoid seeing since I'm not blind).

Bet you misuse the word lift, boot, bonnet, trunk, etc. in daily use due to where you were raised you filthy colonial. Mickey Ds is waiting for you... you'll be a great fit.

And just to clarify to the snowflakes...

Tango Uniform
01-12-2019, 04:47 AM
And just to clarify to the snowflakes...


Axe: noun
1.
a tool typically used for chopping wood, usually a steel blade attached at a right angle to a wooden handle.
"I started swinging the axe at the lumps of driftwood"
synonyms: hatchet, cleaver; More
2.
INFORMAL
a musical instrument, especially one played by a jazz or rock musician.
verb
1.
end, cancel, or dismiss suddenly and ruthlessly.
"the company is axing 125 jobs"
synonyms: cancel, withdraw, drop, abandon, end, terminate, put an end to, discontinue; More
2.
cut or strike with an axe, especially violently or destructively.
"the door had been axed by the firefighters"


Ask: verb
1.
say something in order to obtain an answer or some information.
"people are always asking questions"
synonyms: inquire (of), query, want to know, question, put a question to, interrogate, quiz, cross-question, cross-examine, catechize; More
2.
request (someone) to do or give something.
"Mary asked her father for money"
synonyms: request, demand, appeal to, apply to, petition, call on, entreat, beg, implore, exhort, urge, enjoin, importune, pray, solicit, beseech, plead with, sue, supplicate; More
noun
1.
US
a request, especially for a donation.
"it was an awkward ask for more funding"


So many pilots are still offended with “your”, “you’re” and “there”, “they’re” and “their” but if someone points out axe vs ask, it’s racist? Hahaha. Pardon me for expecting more professionalism from a profession that claims to be full of professionals. Get over yourselves.


Maybe he was referring to his favorite body spray?

CaptDave
01-12-2019, 06:09 AM
Maybe he was referring to his favorite body spray?

Haha. Touché

To get back to Southern Air, the pilots I know that fly there are nothing less than great pilots and people, despite current work rules and pay challenges. It may work for some but it wasn’t a place for me.

No Land 3
01-12-2019, 08:35 AM
Axe vs ask is racist? No, it's called being educated. Get out of here with this snow flake "woke" bull crap.

vroll1800
01-12-2019, 09:17 AM
Maybe he was referring to his favorite body spray?

What makes you think that subject HR rep wasn't a "she" ? I just might have to report your post as being sexist. :rolleyes:

tengssuuciurta
01-12-2019, 09:21 AM
Axe vs ask is racist? No, it's called being educated. Get out of here with this snow flake "woke" bull crap.

https://i.imgur.com/OPTQKiT.jpg

Tango Uniform
01-12-2019, 02:21 PM
What makes you think that subject HR rep wasn't a "she" ? I just might have to report your post as being sexist. :rolleyes:

I apologize please change “his” to “Shim” 😁

DC8DRIVER
01-13-2019, 08:13 AM
Are you an Atlas pilot? Are you still here? Regionals are hiring. My QOL here is infinity better than the regional I left and so is the pay. For a young dude this place isn’t that bad, and a good place to hang while you wait for purple and brown. YMMV

You must have an extremely unusual QOL to think Atlas is better than a regional…

1. Does your regional have line protection that paid awarded line value in the event of sick days, schedule changes, or training?
Atlas does not.
2. Does your regional have a ridiculously low 50 hour minimum for the entire first year?
Atlas does.
3. Does your regional pay a ridiculously low flat rate of $1,600/month in training?
Atlas does.
4. Does your regional have a signing bonus?
Not at Atlas!
5. Does your regional sue your pilot group more than once in order to delay or completely prevent your ability to negotiate a contract?
Atlas sued their own pilots twice.
6. Does your regional have contractual provisions that could result in you being on the road up to 40 days in a row?
Atlas does.
7. Does your regional pay less than 60% of what their regional counterparts were paid?
Atlas pays far less than other ACMI carriers do and far, far less than what FedEx and UPS pays (who management likes to compare us to for every index EXCEPT for bay, benefits, and work rules).
8. Does your regional ignore part 117 rest rules when flying 14 and 16 hour long haul trips that wreck your Circadian rhythm?
Atlas does.
9. Does your regional allow you to negotiate under section 6 negotiation parameters for a new contract more often than once every 20+ years?
Atlas does not.
10. Does your regional have a provision in their contract that allowed the company to buy another airline and then merge (or "amalgamate") contracts in order to avoid ever having to negotiate a new CBA with the pilot group?
Atlas does.
11. Does your regional dock your pay with imputed income in order to position you for work?
Atlas does.
12. Does your regional pay you for sitting reserve at home?
Atlas will not.

These are all things that Atlas does that are fairly non-standard throughout the entire airline industry, yet pilots contort themselves into pretzel shapes defending or ignoring these work rules in a vain attempt to justify working here. Yes Atlas and Southern both fly big shiny planes to far away places and the pay can EVENTUALLY exceed that of a regional, but it is amazing to me that pilots cannot see past this to the disgusting reality that lies just beneath the surface.

The rational that Atlas/Southern is a great place to work justified on the basis of the big planes, trips to the back side of the globe, on-board catering, or the opportunity to get a free type rating and then skip town the next day free of a training contract (happens more than you'd think) is an absolutely irrational, shortsighted, and greedy set of reasons upon which to make an important career decision.

Yet for some inexplicable reason, many pilots feel that if they make a few bucks more than a regional, are able to get a free type rating, and log some heavy jet time that justifies ignoring the clear fact that they are entering a war at Atlas and they remain blissfully unaware (or uncaring) of the battle that rages all around them. I understand that Atlas is a stepping stone for many pilots, and most of the guys who drift through Atlas are aware of where Atlas stands in the grand scheme of ACMI carriers and where we stand in terms of contract negotiations. They uphold the contract, they participate in union activities, and they realistically portray Atlas in their online posts.

But, people who compare Atlas to Key Lime, or Mokulele Airlines, or Joes Flying Circus and then rave about how good life at Atlas is does neither himself or anybody else any favors. Using only pay and jet size is a shortsighted and unrealistic way to compare jobs. Flying a heavy passenger jet internationally for $137 an hour with no pay protections at all is so far below industry standard that we serve only the managements of all other airlines in the world as a low point from which to begin negotiations.

So get your head our of your pocketbook and take a good look at the industry that you now fly for. It is the big picture that you’ll be looking for and you clearly haven’t seen it yet.

Know your worth. Know your industry. Know your contract.

Only then will you know where you stand.

And, even after completely understanding where Atlas stands in this job market, and if you have a clear and realistic understanding of what a job at Atlas is all about AND are still willing to come here despite all of the negatives and to be a part of the solution instead of being a part of the problem, then you would be welcome here

WhipWhitaker
01-13-2019, 12:26 PM
You must have an extremely unusual QOL to think Atlas is better than a regional…

1. Does your regional have line protection that paid awarded line value in the event of sick days, schedule changes, or training?
Atlas does not.
2. Does your regional have a ridiculously low 50 hour minimum for the entire first year?
Atlas does.
3. Does your regional pay a ridiculously low flat rate of $1,600/month in training?
Atlas does.
4. Does your regional have a signing bonus?
Not at Atlas!
5. Does your regional sue your pilot group more than once in order to delay or completely prevent your ability to negotiate a contract?
Atlas sued their own pilots twice.
6. Does your regional have contractual provisions that could result in you being on the road up to 40 days in a row?
Atlas does.
7. Does your regional pay less than 60% of what their regional counterparts were paid?
Atlas pays far less than other ACMI carriers do and far, far less than what FedEx and UPS pays (who management likes to compare us to for every index EXCEPT for bay, benefits, and work rules).
8. Does your regional ignore part 117 rest rules when flying 14 and 16 hour long haul trips that wreck your Circadian rhythm?
Atlas does.
9. Does your regional allow you to negotiate under section 6 negotiation parameters for a new contract more often than once every 20+ years?
Atlas does not.
10. Does your regional have a provision in their contract that allowed the company to buy another airline and then merge (or "amalgamate") contracts in order to avoid ever having to negotiate a new CBA with the pilot group?
Atlas does.
11. Does your regional dock your pay with imputed income in order to position you for work?
Atlas does.
12. Does your regional pay you for sitting reserve at home?
Atlas will not.

These are all things that Atlas does that are fairly non-standard throughout the entire airline industry, yet pilots contort themselves into pretzel shapes defending or ignoring these work rules in a vain attempt to justify working here. Yes Atlas and Southern both fly big shiny planes to far away places and the pay can EVENTUALLY exceed that of a regional, but it is amazing to me that pilots cannot see past this to the disgusting reality that lies just beneath the surface.

The rational that Atlas/Southern is a great place to work justified on the basis of the big planes, trips to the back side of the globe, on-board catering, or the opportunity to get a free type rating and then skip town the next day free of a training contract (happens more than you'd think) is an absolutely irrational, shortsighted, and greedy set of reasons upon which to make an important career decision.

Yet for some inexplicable reason, many pilots feel that if they make a few bucks more than a regional, are able to get a free type rating, and log some heavy jet time that justifies ignoring the clear fact that they are entering a war at Atlas and they remain blissfully unaware (or uncaring) of the battle that rages all around them. I understand that Atlas is a stepping stone for many pilots, and most of the guys who drift through Atlas are aware of where Atlas stands in the grand scheme of ACMI carriers and where we stand in terms of contract negotiations. They uphold the contract, they participate in union activities, and they realistically portray Atlas in their online posts.

But, people who compare Atlas to Key Lime, or Mokulele Airlines, or Joes Flying Circus and then rave about how good life at Atlas is does neither himself or anybody else any favors. Using only pay and jet size is a shortsighted and unrealistic way to compare jobs. Flying a heavy passenger jet internationally for $137 an hour with no pay protections at all is so far below industry standard that we serve only the managements of all other airlines in the world as a low point from which to begin negotiations.

So get your head our of your pocketbook and take a good look at the industry that you now fly for. It is the big picture that you’ll be looking for and you clearly haven’t seen it yet.

Know your worth. Know your industry. Know your contract.

Only then will you know where you stand.

And, even after completely understanding where Atlas stands in this job market, and if you have a clear and realistic understanding of what a job at Atlas is all about AND are still willing to come here despite all of the negatives and to be a part of the solution instead of being a part of the problem, then you would be welcome here


To quote another disgruntled employee, Allegiant is hiring. Do the rest of us a favor and quit, go to your regional of choice, enjoy that bonus and quality of life. This place owns so much real estate inside you’re head it’s pathetic, it’s just a job. I’ll be enjoying my month off...22 days more in a row than I ever got off at my regional.

Atrasaty
01-13-2019, 12:41 PM
To quote another disgruntled employee.

To be honest WW, you appear to be the only gruntled employee that I know of.

WhipWhitaker
01-13-2019, 12:58 PM
To be honest WW, you appear to be the only gruntled employee that I know of.

I know plenty. No one will say a half decent word about this place online because the same 6 highly disgruntled people that blow up GCcomms daily love to tear them a new one for daring to disagree with their group think, instead of looking at the reasons why it might work for someone. (young, no family, heavy type to get to Fedex faster, better pay than regional, live in a base and no gateway or commute, fun layovers.) So yeah dude, I’m mostly gruntled.

JackStraw
01-13-2019, 05:35 PM
At Atlas, we do it cheaper than the other guys... and we’re happy to do it! It’s just a job to us!

JonnyKnoxville
01-13-2019, 07:49 PM
At Atlas, we do it cheaper than the other guys... and we’re happy to do it! It’s just a job to us!

I am not sure if that is sarcasm or not and apologize in advance if it is but we most certainly are not happy to do it cheaper than the other guys. We are some of the lowest paid pilots flying airliners in the United States right now and it is downright embarrassing.

JackStraw
01-14-2019, 04:28 AM
I am not sure if that is sarcasm or not and apologize in advance if it is but we most certainly are not happy to do it cheaper than the other guys. We are some of the lowest paid pilots flying airliners in the United States right now and it is downright embarrassing.

To quote another disgruntled employee, Allegiant is hiring. Do the rest of us a favor and quit, go to your regional of choice, enjoy that bonus and quality of life. This place owns so much real estate inside you’re head it’s pathetic, it’s just a job. I’ll be enjoying my month off...22 days more in a row than I ever got off at my regional.

It was sarcasm.

But...

Allegiant IS hiring.

DC8DRIVER
01-14-2019, 05:25 AM
To quote another disgruntled employee, Allegiant is hiring. Do the rest of us a favor and quit, go to your regional of choice, enjoy that bonus and quality of life. This place owns so much real estate inside you’re head it’s pathetic, it’s just a job. I’ll be enjoying my month off...22 days more in a row than I ever got off at my regional.

Oldest and weakest retort in the book ... "why don't you just quit / go someplace else?"

Some of us choose to stay and fight for a better contract. Unfortunately, there are a few entitled "pilots" who like to ride coattails. They climb on the shoulders of those who make the best parts of the job available to them so they’ll have something to crow about. No need to thank us, though (not that any thanks are expected). We understand that there will always be the 1% who do nothing to better the working conditions here and only take advantage of the efforts, sacrifices, opportunities, and successes that the group has made for your benefit.

None-the-less, you are welcome.

And on one point, you are right. This place does take up real estate in our heads as we work towards a better contract because improving the conditions here is vitally important to us just as it was to those who came before us and made the few gains that you so loudly brag about today.

One day (unless Flynn and co. decide to cash out and sell Atlas for body parts), Atlas will have a great contract. Probably not during my career here, though. But I will be able to live with myself knowing that I had some small part in making this place better for those who follow my path, just as those who came before me paid it forward so I could enjoy the few gains that exist today.

This will only be accomplished, though, by an honest understanding of where Atlas is in regards to labor relations within the industry, and where we should be.

So when guys come on line and brag about how good Atlas is in relation to anything other than our industry peers is counterproductive to everyone - including yourself, whether or not you even realize it - because no gains have ever been made by pilots who look backwards at their entry level jobs as a measure of where they should be today or tomorrow.

Like most pilots, my first job in aviation involved working with no insurance, no retirement, no benefits, no job protections, no pay protections, under hazardous conditions at all hours of the day and night with no provisions for rest, food, or protections from the elements. Is Atlas a step up from there? Obviously! Atlas is better by 1000%! But should I compare that lousy job to Atlas? Or should I look at an airline that has conditions that far exceed those at Atlas for guidance when it comes to working towards a better contract?

Now, don’t get me wrong; I love flying I do and the people I fly with. I have a great time when I'm at work. And a huge part of my outlook and optimism comes from knowing that I am part of the vast majority of Atlas pilots (even those who know they are here only temporarily) who have a clear view of where we Atlas pilots stand and what incredible potential there is here for a great contract. But, as Richard Bach once wrote, “You are never given a wish without also being given the power to make it true. You may have to work for it, however.”

The work toward a common goal like that is rewarding in a way that you will probably never know. So keep those rose colored glasses on, keep updating your FedEx application, and try not to hinder the rest of us while we work to give you even more to brag about while you are here.

OK?

SetVap
01-15-2019, 03:48 PM
Good evening everyone,

I have an interview with Southern for the 737 FO position. They sent me an email with an example of the schedule for the 18 on 12 off and the pay scale as well. I just had a few questions that I was hoping some of you could answer. Do any of you currently fly the 737? How much flying do you usually fly each month. The recruiter already warned me of the 36 hour YWG overnight but I was wondering what the rest of the flying is like. Is it all flying on the back end of the clock? Do you ever overnight back in CVG or is that just in and out.

Thank you for your help.

JackStraw
01-15-2019, 04:33 PM
Good evening everyone,

I have an interview with Southern for the 737 FO position. They sent me an email with an example of the schedule for the 18 on 12 off and the pay scale as well. I just had a few questions that I was hoping some of you could answer. Do any of you currently fly the 737? How much flying do you usually fly each month. The recruiter already warned me of the 36 hour YWG overnight but I was wondering what the rest of the flying is like. Is it all flying on the back end of the clock? Do you ever overnight back in CVG or is that just in and out.

Thank you for your help.

Showing interest in either Southern or Atlas, but especially Southern, demonstrates extremely bad judgement on your part. -10 points.

Hope this helped.

woog315
01-15-2019, 04:43 PM
Good evening everyone,

I have an interview with Southern for the 737 FO position. They sent me an email with an example of the schedule for the 18 on 12 off and the pay scale as well. I just had a few questions that I was hoping some of you could answer. Do any of you currently fly the 737? How much flying do you usually fly each month. The recruiter already warned me of the 36 hour YWG overnight but I was wondering what the rest of the flying is like. Is it all flying on the back end of the clock? Do you ever overnight back in CVG or is that just in and out.

Thank you for your help.

Dawg, buddy.... friend.... you'll see a lot of vitriol and bile on these forums- sometimes deserved sometimes not- often exaggerated and overly dramatic, but I can tell you... do not go to Southern. There are jobs everywhere- do not go to Southern. I repeat: Do not go to Southern. Cross it off your list.

CaptDave
01-15-2019, 05:56 PM
Lemme just axe you a question....

RyeMex
01-16-2019, 01:45 AM
Good evening everyone,

I have an interview with Southern for the 737 FO position. They sent me an email with an example of the schedule for the 18 on 12 off and the pay scale as well. I just had a few questions that I was hoping some of you could answer. Do any of you currently fly the 737? How much flying do you usually fly each month. The recruiter already warned me of the 36 hour YWG overnight but I was wondering what the rest of the flying is like. Is it all flying on the back end of the clock? Do you ever overnight back in CVG or is that just in and out.

Thank you for your help.

Did they mention the fact that you won’t see a pay raise for 4 years?

thesandbox
01-16-2019, 05:40 AM
Did they mention the fact that you won’t see a pay raise for 4 years?


^^^^THIS^^^^

No Land 3
01-16-2019, 06:17 AM
I can't speak for any of it, but if you are low time and simply want a 737 type to pad your resume? Those that know, head their advice.

JonnyKnoxville
01-16-2019, 08:21 AM
Could you imagine time building on the 737? In five years you could have 1,000 more hours than you do today.

Globemaster2827
01-16-2019, 10:39 AM
Could you imagine time building on the 737? In five years you could have 1,000 more hours than you do today.

If they staff it like they're staffing it on your 767 then you'll do tons of Captain on Captain pairings where as the Junior Captain you'll still be in the right seat.... Logging SIC.

If this doesn't spell it out well enough... On the 767 at Atlas they can't get enough bodies to work there. So... Instead of staffing the 767 FO position with FOs they hire FOs into the 747 where they're willing to work. Then when they're senior enough to hold a 767 upgrade they go to the left seat where (unlike other airlines) 60-65% of the pilots are Captains. This results on a TON of Captain on Captain pairings. Sounds like a great deal to get a 767 upgrade after only 3 years... Correct? Not so fast my friend.

The Senior Captain gets the option of taking the leg in the Left seat. So all of those times that you fly Captain on Captain you'll be in the right seat at the beginning unless the senior Captain is willing to let you take it. So if you fly 300 hours a year (like a 767 Captain told me last week) you'll log 200 hours of PIC... After 3 or 4 years at Atlas...

Bottom line... If your plan is to upgrade at Atlas or Southern and grind out 1000 hours PIC then plan on 8 years to do so if you're logging those hours legally. Since the same managers are attempting to staff an airline they also manage that's having the same problem you can do the math. I'm not saying it's a bad idea if this is your plan but there are probably better options.

scrupulous
01-16-2019, 11:32 AM
Could you imagine time building on the 737? In five years you could have 1,000 more hours than you do today.

Always entertaining when another union's local leadership (Atlas) chimes in on another union local's turf (Southern). Reminds me of the Atlas-Polar merger which cost us dearly over the years with those tactics.

Has Southern under 1224 already submitted to your master's rule (BK) like you? I'm sure the Southern guys would like to know.

Just curious if they have already capitulated to our exiting felon-in-chief (https://www.upi.com/Archives/1990/10/27/Pilots-sentenced-for-drunk-flying-convictions/7881657000000/) like you and our ExCo or if you are just pretending in Southerns leadership's absence here?

Globemaster2827
01-16-2019, 11:37 AM
Always entertaining when another union's local leadership (Atlas) chimes in on another union local's turf (Southern). Reminds me of the Atlas-Polar merger which cost us dearly over the years with those tactics.

Has Southern under 1224 already submitted to your master's rule (BK) like you? I'm sure the Southern guys would like to know.

Just curious if they have already capitulated to our exiting felon-in-chief (https://www.upi.com/Archives/1990/10/27/Pilots-sentenced-for-drunk-flying-convictions/7881657000000/) like you and our ExCo or if you are just pretending in Southerns leadership's absence here?
Seriously... Does it have to devolve into another fight between yall immediately? His point about logging hours on the 737 is legit and given his interaction with Southern's leadership he is informed on the matter. He wasn't taking a shot at you at all.

scrupulous
01-16-2019, 11:55 AM
If they staff it like they're staffing it on your 767 then you'll do tons of Captain on Captain pairings where as the Junior Captain you'll still be in the right seat.... Logging SIC.

If this doesn't spell it out well enough... On the 767 at Atlas they can't get enough bodies to work there. So... Instead of staffing the 767 FO position with FOs they hire FOs into the 747 where they're willing to work. Then when they're senior enough to hold a 767 upgrade they go to the left seat where (unlike other airlines) 60-65% of the pilots are Captains. This results on a TON of Captain on Captain pairings. Sounds like a great deal to get a 767 upgrade after only 3 years... Correct? Not so fast my friend.

The Senior Captain gets the option of taking the leg in the Left seat. So all of those times that you fly Captain on Captain you'll be in the right seat at the beginning unless the senior Captain is willing to let you take it. So if you fly 300 hours a year (like a 767 Captain told me last week) you'll log 200 hours of PIC... After 3 or 4 years at Atlas...

Bottom line... If your plan is to upgrade at Atlas or Southern and grind out 1000 hours PIC then plan on 8 years to do so if you're logging those hours legally. Since the same managers are attempting to staff an airline they also manage that's having the same problem you can do the math. I'm not saying it's a bad idea if this is your plan but there are probably better options.

For a guy working at FedEx now, you really seem to be spending a lot of time fixating on Atlas forums for your short touch and go here. I'm jealous actually. It took two moon shots and three thousand hours PIC in type to get a job interview in my day. Things have changed and here we are.

Are the boys at FedEx not treating you to your expectations of your perceived skill set?

Enjoy the pay and bragging rights. Remember that a large number of us don't get to participate.

Globemaster2827
01-16-2019, 12:11 PM
For a guy working at FedEx now, you really seem to be spending a lot of time fixating on Atlas forums for your short touch and go here. I'm jealous actually. It took two moon shots and three thousand hours PIC in type to get a job interview in my day. Things have changed and here we are.

Are the boys at FedEx not treating you to your expectations of your perceived skill set?

Enjoy the pay and bragging rights. Remember that a large number of us don't get to participate.

I'm still rooting for ALL of you (you included). Go look at your 767 list and tell me that my post doesn't contribute to the conversation. When I left it was approaching 65% Captains and I'd imagine it's gotten worse... You're on the 747 and are very senior so you might not have looked at it.

scrupulous
01-16-2019, 12:33 PM
I'm still rooting for ALL of you (you included). Go look at your 767 list and tell me that my post doesn't contribute to the conversation. When I left it was approaching 65% Captains and I'd imagine it's gotten worse... You're on the 747 and are very senior so you might not have looked at it.

Kind of like how I was shot the last time. "Here is a napkin, good luck on not dying". Pretty much how our leadership approaches this.

I think the Southern guys might have something to say. Maybe our leadership should listen to them.

I forgot, since time doesn't exist before you, head over to where ever you learned to fly and pimp them for gratification.

Enjoy good catering and bragging writes.

JonnyKnoxville
01-16-2019, 01:30 PM
Suddenimpact / Scrupulous, you may be too busy conjuring up your theories and versions of reality to be paying attention to what is really going on. In case you missed the many communications from the union, both the Atlas and Southern union leadership teams are working in lock-step with each other.

DC8DRIVER
01-16-2019, 02:49 PM
Always entertaining when another union's local leadership (Atlas) chimes in on another union local's turf (Southern).


FYI: Atlas and Southern are in the same local.

Keep up with the crazy hate, though. We're rooting for you!

JonnyKnoxville
01-16-2019, 05:55 PM
Just curious if they have already capitulated to our exiting felon-in-chief (https://www.upi.com/Archives/1990/10/27/Pilots-sentenced-for-drunk-flying-convictions/7881657000000/) like you and our ExCo or if you are just pretending in Southerns leadership's absence here?

Felon-in-chief, huh? That is right, he made a mistake almost 30 years ago. Fell from one of the most coveted jobs in aviation. Found himself at rock bottom without anything and fought his way back to the top. The underdog comeback story in aviation if there ever was one. BTW, he has never hid from any of it and has always owned up to it while always pointing the finger at himself for the mistake that cost him everything.

Conversely, you have never done a ******** thing worthwhile in your entire life but try and tear down people on an anonymous forum. I bet every disappointment that defines your life is everyone else's fault but your own. You create lies of grandeur to pretend to be someone you are not and never will be. Enjoy your ordinary life.

atpcliff
01-16-2019, 08:07 PM
I know plenty. No one will say a half decent word about this place online because the same 6 highly disgruntled people that blow up GCcomms daily love to tear them a new one for daring to disagree with their group think, instead of looking at the reasons why it might work for someone. (young, no family, heavy type to get to Fedex faster, better pay than regional, live in a base and no gateway or commute, fun layovers.) So yeah dude, I’m mostly gruntled.

A lot of FedEx pilots were going on and on...and on and on and on, about what a crap company it was, how bad it was, and how no one should ever come there. Then, about 5 days later, they got a new contract agreement, and suddenly it was all roses and light, and FedEx was THE BEST place to work in the universe...it all depends on what phase of the contract situation that you are in, for many people.

Diesel8
01-17-2019, 06:41 AM
This is what is going on. Most of the pilots on the 737 at Southern are all Captains, so all you have is Captains flying with Captains.

They are doing upgrades on 777 fleet, which is obviously in an attempt to stave off attrition. Of course the company is saying it's for additional airframes, but yet there is no known aircraft being checked out by maintenance.

So then there will be more Captain on Captain pairings (more than we already have) on the 777F, so your opportunity for more PIC time on that fleet is also diminished. Oh, and in the scheduling system log, it will always shows the senior Captain as the PIC.

If they staff it like they're staffing it on your 767 then you'll do tons of Captain on Captain pairings where as the Junior Captain you'll still be in the right seat.... Logging SIC.

If this doesn't spell it out well enough... On the 767 at Atlas they can't get enough bodies to work there. So... Instead of staffing the 767 FO position with FOs they hire FOs into the 747 where they're willing to work. Then when they're senior enough to hold a 767 upgrade they go to the left seat where (unlike other airlines) 60-65% of the pilots are Captains. This results on a TON of Captain on Captain pairings. Sounds like a great deal to get a 767 upgrade after only 3 years... Correct? Not so fast my friend.

The Senior Captain gets the option of taking the leg in the Left seat. So all of those times that you fly Captain on Captain you'll be in the right seat at the beginning unless the senior Captain is willing to let you take it. So if you fly 300 hours a year (like a 767 Captain told me last week) you'll log 200 hours of PIC... After 3 or 4 years at Atlas...

Bottom line... If your plan is to upgrade at Atlas or Southern and grind out 1000 hours PIC then plan on 8 years to do so if you're logging those hours legally. Since the same managers are attempting to staff an airline they also manage that's having the same problem you can do the math. I'm not saying it's a bad idea if this is your plan but there are probably better options.

CallmeJB
01-17-2019, 10:09 AM
I'm still rooting for ALL of you (you included). Go look at your 767 list and tell me that my post doesn't contribute to the conversation. When I left it was approaching 65% Captains and I'd imagine it's gotten worse... You're on the 747 and are very senior so you might not have looked at it.

As of two days ago on the 767 there were only 56% Captains (332 767 CAs out of 590 total 767 CAs/FOs).

I'm not saying you're wrong, by any means. I think they are upgrading for retention, but also when you were here they were front-loading the Captains in anticipation of the rest of Amazon aircraft being delivered. Now that the massive expansion has ended, the crew numbers are back to something more normal. Still hiring for attrition, and just a little bit of anticipated growth.

scrupulous
01-17-2019, 01:12 PM
Suddenimpact / Scrupulous, you may be too busy conjuring up your theories and versions of reality to be paying attention to what is really going on. In case you missed the many communications from the union, both the Atlas and Southern union leadership teams are working in lock-step with each other.

Funny how "lock-step with each other" means the ExCo chair saying nice things in public releases and then stabs them in the back afterwards. Just heard another derogatory Southern story this week from an orange lanyard guy. He, just like you, doesn't know who is sitting in front of them when telling their stories.

We are repeating the history of the Atlas Polar merger again and we don't have anyone on the ExCo with longevity to remember it save the one who helped do the damage and his yes man that didn't do any volunteering back then.

FYI: Atlas and Southern are in the same local.

Keep up with the crazy hate, though. We're rooting for you!

If you get back to the line, you will be able to hear it yourself. Otherwise, just keep taking the alternative "compensation" for your services.

Felon-in-chief, huh? That is right, he made a mistake almost 30 years ago. Fell from one of the most coveted jobs in aviation. Found himself at rock bottom without anything and fought his way back to the top. The underdog comeback story in aviation if there ever was one. BTW, he has never hid from any of it and has always owned up to it while always pointing the finger at himself for the mistake that cost him everything.

Conversely, you have never done a ******** thing worthwhile in your entire life but try and tear down people on an anonymous forum. I bet every disappointment that defines your life is everyone else's fault but your own. You create lies of grandeur to pretend to be someone you are not and never will be. Enjoy your ordinary life.

Quite to the contrary. I actually flew with the FE on that event at another carrier and read and seen the Captain owning up to his problems day one and even later speaking at many meetings to help others. Of the three, ours was the one willing to say and do anything vs own up to it compared to them and just did his time.

In your typical, nothing happened before I got here mindset of which we have a number of you. You know nothing of what happened here, who did what, and etc but are willing to believe everything a guy who has at the very least mislead and/or lied to a court and many-many others regularly.

I have a pretty long list of positions and accomplishments that you get to enjoy as the relatively new snot nose here who has little to show so far for what you have done and definitely got paid for it in comparison to administrations past. The smallest was forensically tracking you down here when you were sabotaging a previous administrations efforts on a LOA here. You need to start keeping a diary of what you said to whom so you can keep up. Maybe tell the ExCo Chair that also.

We are certainly going the way of Local 747 (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/596682-post9.html) and Joint Council 41 (http://747captain.org/sites/default/files/ohioconferencesentencing-1.pdf) (in PDF).

DC8DRIVER
01-17-2019, 02:27 PM
If you get back to the line, you will be able to hear it yourself. Otherwise, just keep taking the alternative "compensation" for your services.

Dragging other people's illnesses out into public and then lying about their situation certainly does nothing for your legitimacy or your reputation. Telling such derogatory lies about me only reinforces the fact that everything else that you regurgitate is likewise untrue.

Now if you really want start telling tales, why don't you start with the many times you secretly collaborated with management against the union and then brag about the many times you crossed legitimate lines to fly "back in the day" !!

scrupulous
01-17-2019, 04:52 PM
Dragging other people's illnesses out into public and then lying about their situation certainly does nothing for your legitimacy or your reputation. Telling such derogatory lies about me only reinforces the fact that everything else that you regurgitate is likewise untrue.

Now if you really want start telling tales, why don't you start with the many times you secretly collaborated with management against the union and then brag about the many times you crossed legitimate lines to fly "back in the day" !!

Funny, I know of other's right now that don't take-haven't taken donated LMED from the membership donations if it was even offered to them by the leadership at all and posting prolifically as you. Kind of makes you think there are people and more important people. Kinda like "Animal Farm".

As to: "Now if you really want start telling tales, why don't you start with the many times you secretly collaborated with management against the union and then brag about the many times you crossed legitimate lines to fly "back in the day" !!".

This makes me curious what new stories are being generated now by our leadership to reinforce themselves. Considering the number of times I was verbally fired by management for standing up for our CBA long before you showed up to collect donations, I find your accusations funny and saddening. Please elaborate. Can't be any worse than before when knoxville was exposed and his sycophants started making up stuff, which most of them sided with me on the flight pay loss amendment we launched to stop the abuse.

Really, what's the story now? Smells like a new take on the Polar strike issue that ALPA had to step in for with the Alternative Dispute Resolution (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hhfal8cgz9gdi13/Jan24_2006PresentationtoALPAExecutiveCouncil.pdf?d l=1). I probably have something I can upload in response if this is not what your talking about. Pretty poor if our leadership is spewing this for sympathy again.

BTW, if your a compensated poster, you don't get to plead the sympathy card.

Pull and Rotate
01-17-2019, 05:12 PM
"Quite to the contrary. I actually flew with the FE on that event at another carrier and read and seen the Captain owning up to his problems day one and even later speaking at many meetings to help others. Of the three, ours was the one willing to say and do anything vs own up to it compared to them and just did his time."

Ummmm....no. If you read Lyle's book about his account of the incident before and after you will see that his opinion of the two other crew members involved is diametrically opposed to the account you just laid out. Lyle said in no uncertain terms that he had absolutely no time for the FE involved and that he was the one who was doing anything he could to save his own skin. It's in print and you can read it for yourself.

I have no skin in this game, but to bring up a mistake that was made over 30 years ago in an effort to somehow bolster your position and credibility only goes to show what a weak and petty man you really are. The man made a mistake and has paid his debt.

Birdsmash
01-17-2019, 05:30 PM
...and for those of you who wandered by, sat down in a lawn chair with a bucket of popcorn to watch the fireworks between these posters...they work for Atlas not Southern. Just helping you keep the players straight.

DC8DRIVER
01-17-2019, 05:31 PM
Considering the number of times I was verbally fired by management for standing up for our CBA long before you showed up to collect donations, I find your accusations funny and saddening. Please elaborate.

And after getting fired so many times, the deals you cut with said management have kept you onboard; just as long as you keep slamming the union and working to undermine our EXCO. Management just loves you!

And no, I am not involved in any way with the union other than upholding their integrity against your incessant attacks. Hard for you to believe, I know, because you have never offered an ounce of effort to help anyone other than yourself without a big payoff. Consequently, you have become a management puppet taking secret dinners with JC giving you the ability to continue to suck money out of Atlas after having been "verbally fired by management" so many times.

Your subservient alliance to management is not just transparent, it shows up in neon lights on the message boards as you continuously lie about union supporters like me and union officers who post here. Then you incessantly slam the union in an effort to subvert our efforts to get a new contract.

Almost as bad as your selling out your fellow union sisters and brothers is your total lack of self control when it comes to the truth and the slander that drips from your mouth. So far beyond the realm of decency and "Terms of Use" that you have been banned from APC only to return under a different screen name. So many times have you spread falsehoods and aroused such animosity that thread after thread have been closed because of you and your uncontrollable keyboard rage.

Obviously, I know my own truth as do a hand full of those who are close to me, but you seem obsessed spreading ridiculous lies about me. Now, I am calling you out for your constant pathological lies about both myself and the union. Since you clearly know who I am, go ahead and identify yourself and stand behind your lies.

Or remain a coward and shout your lies from the shadows.

It's your choice and there's no doubt which path you'll take.

scrupulous
01-17-2019, 05:38 PM
"Quite to the contrary. I actually flew with the FE on that event at another carrier and read and seen the Captain owning up to his problems day one and even later speaking at many meetings to help others. Of the three, ours was the one willing to say and do anything vs own up to it compared to them and just did his time."

Ummmm....no. If you read Lyle's book about his account of the incident before and after you will see that his opinion of the two other crew members involved is diametrically opposed to the account you just laid out. Lyle said in no uncertain terms that he had absolutely no time for the FE involved and that he was the one who was doing anything he could to save his own skin. It's in print and you can read it for yourself.

I have no skin in this game, but to bring up a mistake that was made over 30 years ago in an effort to somehow bolster your position and credibility only goes to show what a weak and petty man you really are. The man made a mistake and has paid his debt.

I didn't read Prouse's book. Didn't know he had one or directly new the man. Did read "Flying Drunk" By Balzer. Having flown with him and later dealing with BK union wise, it comes down to a character call. B to my knowledge never lied to me. BK has many times.

scrupulous
01-17-2019, 05:53 PM
...and for those of you who wandered by, sat down in a lawn chair with a bucket of popcorn to watch the fireworks between these posters...they work for Atlas not Southern. Just helping you keep the players straight.


Yes, your are right. I have a lot of respect for you despite what our un-elected leadership does in the background. Been there, done that before.

JonnyKnoxville
01-17-2019, 06:17 PM
I didn't read Prouse's book. Didn't know he had one or directly new the man. Did read "Flying Drunk" By Balzer. Having flown with him and later dealing with BK union wise, it comes down to a character call. B to my knowledge never lied to me. BK has many times.

This has got to be the most ironic statement I have ever read, you know, with you being the biggest compulsive liar I have ever met and all.

Cutting deals with management to keep your job? The true motivation has finally been revealed. Sounds like someone else did a little homework on you and found a gem. So all you have to do is keep cutting down union leadership to keep your job...nice. All it cost you was your reputation, which is completely destroyed.

scrupulous
01-17-2019, 06:38 PM
This has got to be the most ironic statement I have ever read, you know, with you being the biggest compulsive liar I have ever met and all.

Cutting deals with management to keep your job? The true motivation has finally been revealed. Sounds like someone else did a little homework on you and found a gem. So all you have to do is keep cutting down union leadership to keep your job...nice. All it cost you was your reputation, which is completely destroyed.

This coming from someone who had complaints lodged against you from coworkers and relying on a compensated followers made up story. Holds true to past efforts on other threads by you. Which is even funnier since they supported the FPL amendment later on due to you and yours. To date, I've had none but from management for upholding the CBA. That will probably change with your sycophant followers though.

I know and many others know credibility isn't your or the remaining leaderships strong suit.

Anything else you want to make up? I can back up mine, though I doubt it would survive moderator approval. I have to go to sleep for my trip so you have some time.

Boris Badenov
01-17-2019, 06:40 PM
This is like when Captain Dentures starts talking about all the stews he, you know, *nudge nudge* used to canoodle with, back when Men were Men and queers got righteously beaten up. Is there a message board equivalent of turning off the intercom and staring out the window?

scrupulous
01-17-2019, 06:52 PM
This is like when Captain Dentures starts talking about all the stews he, you know, *nudge nudge* used to canoodle with, back when Men were Men and queers got righteously beaten up. Is there a message board equivalent of turning off the intercom and staring out the window?

They cut off all union web forum communications at local 1224 recently. Only thing left is a unacknowledged by the union GC_Comms facebook page. Only select approved people get to post there.

Says something by itself.

;)

atpcliff
01-17-2019, 11:54 PM
They cut off all union web forum communications at local 1224 recently. Only thing left is a unacknowledged by the union GC_Comms facebook page. Only select approved people get to post there.

Says something by itself.

;)

Not Correct.

scrupulous
01-18-2019, 01:03 AM
Not Correct.

I did leave off the GC_comms twitter account. Kind of forgot it was there. Is that what you mean?

1224 cut off the web forums access about a week ago. Exchanged some emails with them on it and they said they took them down for all of 1224. Happened when they moved the right side menu to under MY 1224 tab leaving off the forums link.

Do you have access?

As to GC_Comms (FBook/twitter) 1224 legal counsel (EG) said 1224 has no association to it what-so-ever despite it being called the unions point of contact by our ExCo regularly on crew calls and etc. I also have some emails from our ExCo chair on who gets access to FB

What did I get wrong?

atpcliff
01-18-2019, 01:44 AM
I did leave off the GC_comms twitter account. Kind of forgot it was there. Is that what you mean?

1224 cut off the web forums access about a week ago. Exchanged some emails with them on it and they said they took them down for all of 1224. Happened when they moved the right side menu to under MY 1224 tab leaving off the forums link.

Do you have access?

As to GC_Comms (FBook/twitter) 1224 legal counsel (EG) said 1224 has no association to it what-so-ever despite it being called the unions point of contact by our ExCo regularly on crew calls and etc. I also have some emails from our ExCo chair on who gets access to FB

What did I get wrong?

Anyone (who is an Atlas/Southern pilot) can post on the GC facebook page, unless they get kicked off for a TOS violation. If you want to join, go to it and join. There is also more pages for overnights and for trip trades...

scrupulous
01-18-2019, 02:34 AM
Anyone (who is an Atlas/Southern pilot) can post on the GC facebook page, unless they get kicked off for a TOS violation. If you want to join, go to it and join. There is also more pages for overnights and for trip trades...

While I agree that is what is said to the membership but it is not practiced.

Anyone identified as a flight pay loss amendment supporter (that passed BTW) coming up on two years ago and others are not allowed. Others and I have tried to get on. Some have been booted off despite the TOS appropriate posts.

I have an extensive email thread involving a couple of ExCo members, 1224 legal, and the Airline Division if you want me to send it to you covering this. Not sure if would fit in a PM.



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