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View Full Version : MDW commute


MoovenUP
12-12-2018, 06:00 AM
Good Morning ladies and gentlemen. I would love to work for SWA, but my biggest hang up is QOL. My chosen base would be MDW, and my commute would be from an airport that has 3 seasonally 4 flights per day to ORD. I have some friends who are junior pilots at SWA, and they say it's a rough proposition for myself. I realize even Jr pilots get a lot more(2-4) days off than I do currently. However a commute in the day prior and leaving town day after makes a lot less time at home. Currently I am able to drive to work. I know, simple answer is move to base. And my simple answer is no thanks. Way later in life I would like to live in Florida, and realize it is Sr but in 25 years maybe a new hire from today can hold it. I am asking if I am setting myself up for failure and a lot of stress with a young family and all. How long to hold commutable trips? Working 6 day stretches is an option that would help commute less, if it is even possible with the trips ending late starting early. Thanks for the help.


Smooth at FL450
12-12-2018, 06:55 AM
1. Commuting sucks, from my perspective as a non-commuter talking to guys I fly with who do.
2. Commuting off-line to an airport we don't serve sounds exponentially worse.
3. We don't really have commutable lines. That being said, January does have the first I've seen that are commutable on both sides. I'm sure those went very senior.

4. Junior guy in MCO was hired end of August.
5. Move to base, your family will appreciate the extra time at home and stress free life it affords you.

CaptYoda
12-12-2018, 06:57 AM
Along those lines, which junior base seems to have the best crash pad/commuter hotel options close to the respective airport.


Smooth at FL450
12-12-2018, 07:06 AM
Along those lines, which junior base seems to have the best crash pad/commuter hotel options close to the respective airport.


Not OAK...I'll have to let an actual commuter fill in the rest.

saab2000
12-12-2018, 07:14 AM
MDW has lots of hotels and crashpads.

What is the city in question?

Yes, commuting sucks. I drive to work normally and sometimes fly. Living within an hour of the airport by car is life changing for the better.

Iím moving to base soon.

CaptYoda
12-12-2018, 07:51 AM
I would be commuting from ATL until such time as I can hold it. So I guess I am looking at BWI, MDW, HOU, MCO as a newbie.

Smokey23
12-12-2018, 08:01 AM
Pretty much what the others have already said. There are commutes and then there are commutes!. I did the former by choice for a little over a decade in pursuit of an upgrade and better schedules vs. a 2 hr drive to a senior domicile. It sounds like you would be setting up for the latter, which would also be setting you up for a divorce. We've got nine domiciles and one squadron spread all over the country, with more on the way. Realistically if you want to come work here, you should plan on picking one to live in or at least have a short online commute to. If the family absolutely, positively cannot relocate, then your best bet is to go work for an airline that flies a lot of international out of ORD. FAR117 has allowed us the ability to bunch trips together more than we used to, but that would still be a dicey headwind for you to fight on a monthly basis...for the better part of your career.
Best of luck to you!

saab2000
12-12-2018, 08:29 AM
Pretty much what the others have already said. There are commutes and then there are commutes!. I did the former by choice for a little over a decade in pursuit of an upgrade and better schedules vs. a 2 hr drive to a senior domicile. It sounds like you would be setting up for the latter, which would also be setting you up for a divorce. We've got nine domiciles and one squadron spread all over the country, with more on the way. Realistically if you want to come work here, you should plan on picking one to live in or at least have a short online commute to. If the family absolutely, positively cannot relocate, then your best bet is to go work for an airline that flies a lot of international out of ORD. FAR117 has allowed us the ability to bunch trips together more than we used to, but that would still be a dicey headwind for you to fight on a monthly basis...for the better part of your career.
Best of luck to you!

This is all true. I would only add that even short, online commutes can be tough. There are 3 flights per day to where I live. It's a 3 hour drive or a 35 minute flight. Seems like a no-brainer, right? Fly every time. But door to door it is the same time commitment. The difference is that by driving I control my own destiny.

But I fly AM lines so I am pretty much required to come in the day before and get a hotel (I don't like crashpads) and that's $88 out the door, plus my evening before the trip is shot.

If I fly in I still have to come in the day before and get a home and then I have to try to get a trip that finishes in time for me to get the afternoon flight home, which if I don't the late one isn't for like another 9 hours.

The bottom line is that living in base really is the best thing. We have a bunch to choose from and no matter how much I've tried to make this seemingly easy 3-hour drive work, it's a PITA and I'll be moving to a base in the spring. There's simply too much time lost not living in base.

ROFF
12-12-2018, 08:56 AM
Agree with all here.

The big thing for me is the time. My commute is beyond easy but it’s still a commute. I fly PMs so the first day I’m usually beat. Then the last day the commute home is just enough to finish me off where other wise I’d be enjoying a late dinner with my family.

I look at it this way;

4 trips a month, 3 hours of additional commuting time on each side ( that’s low btw but what my easy commute is). That’s 24 hours a month which is really two days.

That’s 24 days a year gone to commuting. That’s a very rosy figure too. I rarely have to spend a night but it does happen. A day lost.

That’s 24 days lost. That a lot of $$ if you convert it to work and a lot of family/hobby/fun time.

NTM the commmute dictates what kind of trips I fly. One and two day trips? Nope. 3 and 4 days. More time away. High value trips? Are they commuteable? Nope, guess I’m doing the low value trip because it’s commuteable.

Over a career or even a decade you can see what it will cost you.

Thankfully my commuting days are numbered. I can’t wait to live in base!!

CA1900
12-12-2018, 09:10 AM
I realize even Jr pilots get a lot more(2-4) days off than I do currently. However a commute in the day prior and leaving town day after makes a lot less time at home.

The vast majority of SWA's trips are split between "AM" and "PM" trips, which either report and release very early, or report in the afternoon and finish very late. Because of this, with very few exceptions, you're either going to be starting before any commuter flights come in, or finishing after any available flights home.

You should be able to go home the same day as you finish an AM, but you'd have to come the night before. Or, come the same day as a PM, but spend the night before coming home. I did that for several months, coming up the morning of a PM trip (or PM reserve, meaning landing by 9am), and after getting done at ~1am, crashed in the pilot lounge for a few hours then took the 5am flight home.

It was doable, but it wasted a lot of time I could have spent at home, and I ended up moving to a domicile within my first year. Some guys commute their whole career, but my wife and quickly realized that the move would be worth the QOL improvement, so we bit the bullet and are much happier.

Way later in life I would like to live in Florida, and realize it is Sr but in 25 years maybe a new hire from today can hold it.

Assuming hiring continues, being based in MCO would not take more than six months. While there are some junior pilots there, it's a super senior base otherwise, and if you ever plan to upgrade, expect to be on reserve for quite a while. (Being on reserve greatly limits your schedule flexibility compared to being a lineholder.)

I am asking if I am setting myself up for failure and a lot of stress with a young family and all.

Honestly? Yes. I hate to discourage you from trying to get the job, as it really is a terrific one, but the commuting situation you describe sounds absolutely hellish and I don't believe you'd have much of a home life at all.

Even doing a single-leg commute on SWA, as I did, is a big time-suck compared to driving to work. But you're talking about an off-line (other airline) commute to another airport, which takes it to a whole new level of hassle. You're not commuting on SWA, so that'll require you to try two flights to be protected by our commuter policy, versus needing only one flight on SWA. That means you can't take the last one of the day the night before -- you'll have to take the next-earlier one when you go to work. With only 3 flights a day, you may be leaving your house before lunch when you're not even working that day!

You're going to be an absolute zombie. I doubt there will be two flights that'd get you to work in time for most PM trips, so I assume you'll have to come the day before to do AM trips. On your last day of a trip, you'll be reporting at maybe 5am Central, working until 2pm, getting to ORD maybe at 4pm, then taking the next flight home. On a good day you'll probably be up for 18 hours before even getting to your car.

If you're absolutely dead-set on not moving, an airline that has a base in ORD might be a better fit for you.

How long to hold commutable trips?

At Southwest? Never. Our trips are almost universally uncommutable on one side or the other because of our AM/PM structure. That may change if we start doing red-eyes, but there's no indication of that coming any time soon. Otherwise, I'd expect to be in a hotel or crashpad 5-6 days a month if you commute; possibly more depending on how the flights between ORD and your home are scheduled.

Working 6 day stretches is an option that would help commute less, if it is even possible with the trips ending late starting early.

Unfortunately trips that do that (a PM trip rolling into an AM trip), and have enough of a rest period between trips to make them legal, are extremely uncommon. The PMs in my base usually end between 9pm and midnight, and the AMs start between 4:30am and 8am. Those wouldn't be legal to put together.

Your best bet would probably be trying to do two 3-day trips (both AM or PM) in a row. You're still burning a hotel or crashpad between trips, but at least minimizing the time spent actually commuting. Alternately, you could look for a line with 4-day trips. There are fewer of them than 3-day trips, but they're out there.

Don't mean to be negative, but want you fully aware of what you'd be getting yourself into. Good luck!

LumberJack
12-12-2018, 12:04 PM
Really good info here. I did the ORD-MDW shuffle for a few months and it was absolutely the worst few months of my commuting years.

Lyft/Uber/Cab between airports is :45 to 1:15 and $50
Blue Line to Orange line is 1:15

Problem is, those times are from butt in seat to destination. Waiting for the cab or Lyft isn't a long wait generally, but sometimes it is, and when you're in a time crunch it's stressful. Same for the trains. They run every 7 minutes at peak times, 15 minutes off peak, and the last Orange leaves MDW at 1:05am to resume at 4:00am. The connection downtown is a pain with bags as you have to go through turnstiles and make your way from elevated to subway or vice versa. Add in the surprisingly common delays (10 minutes wasn't unusual, missed connection adds another 10 minutes) and the long walk from train to gate at both airports (another 12 minutes for each airport if you HUSTLE and the KCM is open and empty). I planned for 2.5 hours to absorb delays and save my hammies.

I've even heard of guys falling asleep on the Orange leaving MDW, and waking up back at MDW. You can't totally zone out or it's easy to miss your stop. (Just more added stress)

If I hadn't been a regional FO, I would have paid the cab fare every time. So that's $100 a week for the convenience of Chicago traffic...

All this and now you only have 3 flights, maybe 4 on a different carrier, in a city that is frequently delayed. You're giving up half a day on either side at best.

It really is about as bad a commute as there is. I'd rather do a FedEx night sort where at least my seat is guaranteed.

If you take it on, just know that it's not sustainable.

sherpster
12-12-2018, 01:10 PM
Good Morning ladies and gentlemen. I would love to work for SWA, but my biggest hang up is QOL. My chosen base would be MDW, and my commute would be from an airport that has 3 seasonally 4 flights per day to ORD. I have some friends who are junior pilots at SWA, and they say it's a rough proposition for myself. I realize even Jr pilots get a lot more(2-4) days off than I do currently. However a commute in the day prior and leaving town day after makes a lot less time at home. Currently I am able to drive to work. I know, simple answer is move to base. And my simple answer is no thanks. Way later in life I would like to live in Florida, and realize it is Sr but in 25 years maybe a new hire from today can hold it. I am asking if I am setting myself up for failure and a lot of stress with a young family and all. How long to hold commutable trips? Working 6 day stretches is an option that would help commute less, if it is even possible with the trips ending late starting early. Thanks for the help.

See if you get hired first. Take the job and see if it works. You are worried about stuff way down the line. I commute to NYC and commuting isnt all that bad. Jam a couple of 3 days together, take a day off for 117, and jam a couple of more 3 days together and boom you might be done for the month. SWA guys only work 12 days a month-right?
I am not a SWA guy but I am sure you can minimize the commute pain. Get the job first because that call may never come.

Squallrider
12-12-2018, 04:27 PM
Commuting sucks but southwest guarantees 15 days off on reserve where other carriers itís 12, that helps

RckyMtHigh
12-12-2018, 05:42 PM
Apparently 6% increase in commutable lines for January, company shooting for 12% increase system-wide for February.

MoovenUP
12-12-2018, 07:27 PM
Thank you for the input, I did the commute to ORD and it really wasn't too bad. But a different company and commute to MDW is a whole new ball game. Some of you pointed out I don't have the job yet, SWA pilots already know they got an email asking for recommendations. I don't want to take a recommendation unless I feel confident in being a good employee. I want my next carrier to be my last, and I want to be honest with my friends there, the company, and my family. This commute really isn't possible. Once again, thank you for those who took the time, and thank you for some angles and information I had not thought of SWA specific. It is an excellent airline with excellent people.

PowerShift
12-13-2018, 12:27 AM
My commute to MDW was about the same as you propose. IT SUCKED. I planed 2 hours from the time I got of the plane in ORD to sitting in the easy chair in the crew lounge. I always took the train, as traffic was too big a variable to deal with.

ďNext stop, Clark and LakeĒ.

ZapBrannigan
12-13-2018, 03:43 AM
Guess Iím the opposite. My offline commute wasnít bad. There were ten flights a day between my home and DFW airport. I rarely got bumped but I was very conservative and gave myself lots of options. I used the Loadshare group on Facebook to get the loads ahead of time and pick the most likely flights. It did take more time away from home but low stress.

The train between DFW and Love Field took about 45 minutes and cost $2.50. I stayed at the Holiday Inn Market Center because it was walking distance to a train station. Medical Center Station also had a Kroger and a few restaurants. So thanks to light rail I never needed a car in town.

We only moved to domicile to gain back that one day per week I was losing to the commute. Honestly though we all miss the town we used to live in, and if commutable lines ever become a reality we would consider a move back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ShyGuy
12-13-2018, 06:26 AM
Different airline, just want to reiterate the guy who said there are commutes and then there are commutes! Online station with less than a 1 hr flight to base with 6+ flights/day on own metal? Thatís one thing. Commute across time zones, that ages and kills you that much sooner. Look at Sully at age 58 when the accident happened. He looked at least 70. He did 16 yrs transcon commute. As much as I donít want to, Iíll be moving to base in the Republic of Tax your Texts.

at6d
12-13-2018, 08:07 AM
Iíll be moving to base in the Republic of Tax your Texts.

You sure? LOL. We got PHX and LAS too! Until they all sell their CA homes and move here with their politics.

CaptYoda
12-13-2018, 09:33 AM
Any idea on the class drops for the Dec 2018 class?

Proximity
12-13-2018, 10:34 AM
Any idea on the class drops for the Dec 2018 class?

There are no "class drops" at Southwest because anytime there are new-hires a bid is held. You'll bid with everyone on property in the monthly vacancy bid and get whatever you can hold, which is most likely OAK but bases such as LAS, HOU, MDW, BWI, and even MCO sometimes see new hires.

flyguy81
12-13-2018, 10:57 AM
Any idea on the class drops for the Dec 2018 class?

Weird but they all got the 737

hoover
12-13-2018, 04:47 PM
Any idea on the class drops for the Dec 2018 class?

Everyone got the 737 right out of class.

CaptYoda
12-13-2018, 05:12 PM
Got the B737 part :). Just trying to figure out where the Dec class was placed basewise.

WhaleSurfing
12-13-2018, 05:24 PM
Got the B737 part :). Just trying to figure out where the Dec class was placed basewise.

Usually around 75% of the class goes to OAK and the rest spread out to bases mentioned above.

CaptYoda
12-13-2018, 05:27 PM
Usually around 75% of the class goes to OAK and the rest spread out to bases mentioned above.

Thank you for that. Is seniority in class based on age or SSN?

Warhawg01
12-13-2018, 05:42 PM
Age.


And where they get spread out after OAK changes throughout the year. Usually MDW and BWI, then HOU, LAS. Sometimes DAL and MCO. Iím pretty sure every base got new hires last year with the exception of ATL

ShyGuy
12-13-2018, 10:47 PM
You sure? LOL. We got PHX and LAS too! Until they all sell their CA homes and move here with their politics.

If I’m moving all the way across the country, I better be driving to work! :eek:

at6d
12-14-2018, 12:01 PM
Thatís what I did!

Moved from the Midwest and now my commute is just under two hours by road. I can even do it on reserve.

Beats the hell out of a two hour drive, two hour flight, and an Uber between airfields!

tanker
12-14-2018, 04:32 PM
Thank you for that. Is seniority in class based on age or SSN?
Seniority in class is based on age

squirtinvert
12-19-2018, 05:54 PM
Seniority in class is based on age




I do the MDW commute from a midwest USA city serviced by SWA. I will say that it is harder than I imagined. Flights frequently fill up and I have missed 1 report in 1.5 years here. That also being said I did tally up the numbers for this year so far and I have spent an additional 31 days away from home because of commutting. Not only do I miss out on significant monetary value but also time at home. Also being a summer 2017 hire it took me 4 months to get to MDW but some are able to pick it up as new hires. YRMV. Good luck

Skyward
12-19-2018, 06:04 PM
Most people from my commute city commute to MDW, but I find BWI to be easier. I can even manage commutable on both ends pretty often.

I’ve commuted for more than 15yrs of my career, and I’m still married to the same woman (lol) for 20+. It’s doable but it’s not easy. Successful commuting is a mindset. You have to view it as part of your trip from the moment the lines are awarded. It’s extra time on each end.

That said, I would move to a domicile in a heartbeat if your situation allows. You’ll have a lot more time at home and/or make more money. We’re just too dug in to move with family on both sides living close, etc.

RJSAviator76
12-21-2018, 03:31 PM
I do the MDW commute from a midwest USA city serviced by SWA. I will say that it is harder than I imagined. Flights frequently fill up and I have missed 1 report in 1.5 years here. That also being said I did tally up the numbers for this year so far and I have spent an additional 31 days away from home because of commutting. Not only do I miss out on significant monetary value but also time at home. Also being a summer 2017 hire it took me 4 months to get to MDW but some are able to pick it up as new hires. YRMV. Good luck


31 days x 6.5 TFP (ADG) x $103.27 per TFP (2nd year FO rate)

Ball-park figure of unpaid time away from family: $20,809 for a 2nd year FO.

Just for kicks and grins, if you were a topped out captain:

31 days x 6.5 TFP (ADG) x $231.54 per TFP (12th year CA)

Your ball-park figure of lost income due to unpaid time away from family: $46,655

Mind you, none of those figures include your NEC contribution, profit sharing, or per diem.

Add that over the duration of your career, throw some compounding on there, and the numbers get pretty scary. Hope you like where you live and are OK being gone away from home as long as you are because when it's all said and done, over the course of your career, you'll be leaving 7 figures on the table.

SlipKid
12-21-2018, 04:17 PM
31 days x 6.5 TFP (ADG) x $103.27 per TFP (2nd year FO rate)

Ball-park figure of unpaid time away from family: $20,809 for a 2nd year FO.

Just for kicks and grins, if you were a topped out captain:

31 days x 6.5 TFP (ADG) x $231.54 per TFP (12th year CA)

Your ball-park figure of lost income due to unpaid time away from family: $46,655

Mind you, none of those figures include your NEC contribution, profit sharing, or per diem.

Add that over the duration of your career, throw some compounding on there, and the numbers get pretty scary. Hope you like where you live and are OK being gone away from home as long as you are because when it's all said and done, over the course of your career, you'll be leaving 7 figures on the table.


Exactly. The cost of commuting is staggering, on many levels. :eek:

RJSAviator76
12-21-2018, 04:19 PM
Exactly. The cost of commuting is staggering, on many levels. :eek:



... and notice we arenít even talking about the cost of hotels or crashpads.

SlipKid
12-21-2018, 04:35 PM
... and notice we arenít even talking about the cost of hotels or crashpads.

Or parking at the commute airport, or ubers or extra meals etc. It really adds up quickly.

You pointed out one of the biggest costs, which are the completely wasted days just getting to and from work and effectively paying to do so.

At WN, the lack of opportunity to pick up short notice flying is also a huge cost. I figure my 3+ hour commute has cost me between $50-$80k per year over the last 17 or so for that reason alone.

If you plan on commuting over an entire 20-30 year career, you'd better REALLY like where you live , because you're gonna pay for it, dearly.

tanker
12-21-2018, 06:29 PM
It doesnít matter if you really like where you live or you really like living in a domicile it is what the family (especially the spouse) likes. Thatís because you will only be living there 1/2 the time while the family (spouse) will be living there 100% of the time. Yes you will make more money and have more time off (especially at WN) living in domicile but if the family isnít happy then it isnít worth it.

sherpster
12-21-2018, 06:43 PM
Sure, i could sell my house in Ohio and go into major debt to buy something in the Ny area. I could fight that crap traffic everyday. I could fly to see family and friends in ohio on my off days. I could but ill be gone on the road anyways so why in heck would i do that? Could move to a desirable domicile and have slower seniority progress but again, why? What if another 911/2008/whatever happens? Forget about it.

SlipKid
12-21-2018, 06:48 PM
It doesnít matter if you really like where you live or you really like living in a domicile it is what the family (especially the spouse) likes. Thatís because you will only be living there 1/2 the time while the family (spouse) will be living there 100% of the time. Yes you will make more money and have more time off (especially at WN) living in domicile but if the family isnít happy then it isnít worth it.

My wife thought that too, but after 27+ years of commuting, she is singing a different tune these days.

Hindsight being 20/20, she now admits that we should've moved to a domicile within a few years of my getting hired at SW. I can't agree more.

We're finally punching out of our hometown of over 30 years, and moving within an hour's drive of a domicile. I cannot be happier. :D

RJSAviator76
12-22-2018, 02:29 AM
It doesnít matter if you really like where you live or you really like living in a domicile it is what the family (especially the spouse) likes. Thatís because you will only be living there 1/2 the time while the family (spouse) will be living there 100% of the time. Yes you will make more money and have more time off (especially at WN) living in domicile but if the family isnít happy then it isnít worth it.



Most spouses Iíve met and talked to havenít even considered the effect of commuting on:

- the family
- the finances
- themselves
- you

We are schleps and weíre willing to put up with all sorts of crap to insulate our spouses as much as possible from this career. After all, weíve put our spouses and kids through deployments/PCS orders/chasing regional upgrades/moving for a corporate aviation job and now that we are at a career company, out of guilt, we tell our spouses ďOK honey, you choose where we live and we are done moving. Iíll commute and make you happy.Ē

Of course, any sane spouse will be the happiest ever. But sit down with her/him and give them the FULL story i.e. explain to them the true cost of commuting in terms of additional separation (a month or more per year) and uncompensated time off as explained further up the thread, and ask them if theyíre willing to lose that time and leave that kind of money on the table for the duration of your career. Just think what kind of a place youíd be able to pay off with just that lost income over the course of your career. Give them the full disclosure of the opportunity cost of commuting. Mind you, Iím also not even going into our happiness factor and our additional time away from our loved ones over the course of our careers, and the effect on our health, morale and happiness... all out of our own self-imposed guilt.

See... I donít think most spouses know the full story of commuting and the associated opportunity costs in terms of time, money and the effect on the family. If they donít care even after explaining this to them, at least they canít complain later on down the road... they were given the full disclosure.

ZapBrannigan
12-22-2018, 02:52 AM
RJS,

All of that assumes the spouse has no career of his/her own. How selfish are we to derail his/her career progression just to make our own lives easier?

Iím quite thankful that my wife works. Her career carried us through several furloughs and forced relocations. Iím fortunate that we are able to live in a domicile now, but that decision was made by her ability to transfer to a department in this city. Only recently did my compensation eclipse hers. And then she got a promotion and now weíre both making about the same money again. It wouldnít be fair (or smart) to ask her to give up her lifeís work just to make MY life easier. Iím glad I didnít have to.

There are lots of reasons to commute. We have divorced parents who are geographically anchored to the children. Husbands whose wives are doctors or lawyers with established practices. Pilots who care for elderly parents. Or just those who canít see living in one of our domiciles.

I donít blame them. If we had commutable lines Iíd move back to the small town we came from in a snap. Cheaper, safer, prettier. 42% of our pilots commute and I am bewildered why they donít take up pitchforks and torches at HQ and demand some commutable lines. But I guess we have Stockholm syndrome and instead we brag about our industry leading (?) flexibility, or the efficiency of our trips. Commutable Trippís might pay less and couldnít be locked into the AM/PM paradigm. We have 10,000 pilots. There should be trips that fit everyoneís needs. Plenty of flying to go around.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Tenacvols
12-22-2018, 05:48 AM
I’d argue that if your spouse was making as much or more than you did then you wouldn’t be worried about picking up extra flying. Heck, I’d be giving away my trips since almost 40% of what I made would go to Uncle Sam in taxes...

SlipKid
12-22-2018, 06:29 AM
Most spouses Iíve met and talked to havenít even considered the effect of commuting on:

- the family
- the finances
- themselves
- you

We are schleps and weíre willing to put up with all sorts of crap to insulate our spouses as much as possible from this career. After all, weíve put our spouses and kids through deployments/PCS orders/chasing regional upgrades/moving for a corporate aviation job and now that we are at a career company, out of guilt, we tell our spouses ďOK honey, you choose where we live and we are done moving. Iíll commute and make you happy.Ē

Of course, any sane spouse will be the happiest ever. But sit down with her/him and give them the FULL story i.e. explain to them the true cost of commuting in terms of additional separation (a month or more per year) and uncompensated time off as explained further up the thread, and ask them if theyíre willing to lose that time and leave that kind of money on the table for the duration of your career. Just think what kind of a place youíd be able to pay off with just that lost income over the course of your career. Give them the full disclosure of the opportunity cost of commuting. Mind you, Iím also not even going into our happiness factor and our additional time away from our loved ones over the course of our careers, and the effect on our health, morale and happiness... all out of our own self-imposed guilt.

See... I donít think most spouses know the full story of commuting and the associated opportunity costs in terms of time, money and the effect on the family. If they donít care even after explaining this to them, at least they canít complain later on down the road... they were given the full disclosure.


Yup. Again. On all counts.

Sadly, many pilots don't even consider many of these either, as we'll see in the many responses in this and any other thread discussing it.

Taking one for the team might look good early on in one's career, but I don't know too many folks who wouldn't go back and seriously reconsider it after decades of doing so.

There are many reasons to commute. A pilot and his/her family has to weigh whether or not the significant costs of doing so are worth it in the long run.

The one regret I have in my career is not moving closer to a domicile sooner.

Skyward
12-22-2018, 06:41 AM
RJS,

All of that assumes the spouse has no career of his/her own. How selfish are we to derail his/her career progression just to make our own lives easier?

Iím quite thankful that my wife works. Her career carried us through several furloughs and forced relocations. Iím fortunate that we are able to live in a domicile now, but that decision was made by her ability to transfer to a department in this city. Only recently did my compensation eclipse hers. And then she got a promotion and now weíre both making about the same money again. It wouldnít be fair (or smart) to ask her to give up her lifeís work just to make MY life easier. Iím glad I didnít have to.

There are lots of reasons to commute. We have divorced parents who are geographically anchored to the children. Husbands whose wives are doctors or lawyers with established practices. Pilots who care for elderly parents. Or just those who canít see living in one of our domiciles.

I donít blame them. If we had commutable lines Iíd move back to the small town we came from in a snap. Cheaper, safer, prettier. 42% of our pilots commute and I am bewildered why they donít take up pitchforks and torches at HQ and demand some commutable lines. But I guess we have Stockholm syndrome and instead we brag about our industry leading (?) flexibility, or the efficiency of our trips. Commutable Trippís might pay less and couldnít be locked into the AM/PM paradigm. We have 10,000 pilots. There should be trips that fit everyoneís needs. Plenty of flying to go around.



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Yep. My wife has always made more money than me with her career, but thatíll be changing soon as my rate increases :rolleyes:

We are also very established where I commute from. We have family on both sides. The kids have shcools, church and friends that they like. There are lots of reasons for us, plus I like having the family established and living somewhere they like. I travel when Iím at work anyway, but theyíre ďstuckĒ where they are when Iím gone... they might as well like it.

RJSAviator76
12-22-2018, 12:29 PM
You guys donít have to justify or defend your decisions to commute. Your family dynamics are personal preferences and choices.

My intent here is to point out the opportunity cost of commuting in terms of uncompensated additional time spent away from your family, especially early on in oneís career. As I said, over the course of oneís career, itís very likely in the 7 digits.

SlipperyWing
12-22-2018, 02:46 PM
42% of our pilots commute...

That's a higher number than I was expecting. I keep hearing that the job is so much better if you live in base, and while I expect that's true, there's a lot more to life than the job.

I suspect it's a great job even if you don't live in base.

I recognize that commuting comes with a significant opportunity cost, and that shouldn't be overlooked. But, at the end of a multi-million dollar career, I suspect many will look back and regret the time spent commuting rather than the money left on the table due to commuting.

That said, I've talked to more than a few SWA pilots where I live and they are able to work their schedule such that they have very few trips that aren't commutable on both ends. In fact, a good friend of mine told me it's been 8 months since he's spent a night in a hotel in MDW. That's encouraging and while I keep hearing that SW doesn't have commutable trips, there may be exceptions depending on where you live and where you're commuting to (along with seniority, and other factors).

The fact that 42% of pilots are commuting is encouraging to an outsider looking in.

ZapBrannigan
12-22-2018, 03:20 PM
I didnít say that SWA doesnít have commutable TRIPS. I said they donít have commutable LINES. That means work is required to modify the schedule in order to locate and trade into commutable trips.


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SlipperyWing
12-22-2018, 03:40 PM
I didnít say that SWA doesnít have commutable TRIPS. I said they donít have commutable LINES. That means work is required to modify the schedule in order to locate and trade into commutable trips.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMy apologies, you're correct. Commutable lines would be great.


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SlipperyWing
12-22-2018, 03:52 PM
I didnít say that SWA doesnít have commutable TRIPS. I said they donít have commutable LINES. That means work is required to modify the schedule in order to locate and trade into commutable trips.

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My apologies, Zap. I failed to recognize that distinction in semantics. You're correct.

Commutable lines would be nice.

saab2000
12-22-2018, 04:09 PM
Iíve lived in domicile and out of domicile. Itís not just a different job, itís a different life. Everyone is different but I hate the time I spend in waiting rooms waiting to board and arranging my days off around flight schedule and load factors and weather.

In domicile this career is a hobby. Out of domicile itís a full time job.

Iím definitely not critical of othersí choices. Weíre all adults and make our own decisions but Iím moving to a domicile as soon as practicable. The only decision is which one.

flyguy81
12-22-2018, 04:29 PM
I didnít say that SWA doesnít have commutable TRIPS. I said they donít have commutable LINES. That means work is required to modify the schedule in order to locate and trade into commutable trips.


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Not sure if it was a trial thing, but I noticed in my base's bid pack for Jan that there were quite a few PM turned AM trips for several lines. Not a full line worth but 2-3 of the trips anyway.

KenNoisewaterMD
12-22-2018, 05:55 PM
How is the MSP-MDW commute?

at6d
12-23-2018, 08:33 AM
Iíve lived in domicile and out of domicile. Itís not just a different job, itís a different life. Everyone is different but I hate the time I spend in waiting rooms waiting to board and arranging my days off around flight schedule and load factors and weather.

In domicile this career is a hobby. Out of domicile itís a full time job.

Iím definitely not critical of othersí choices. Weíre all adults and make our own decisions but Iím moving to a domicile as soon as practicable. The only decision is which one.

It will be interesting to see what shakes out when LAX opens.

RckyMtHigh
12-23-2018, 10:34 AM
Not sure if it was a trial thing, but I noticed in my base's bid pack for Jan that there were quite a few PM turned AM trips for several lines. Not a full line worth but 2-3 of the trips anyway.

Denver reps put out 6% commutable trips in January, company looking to double that in February.

An experiment over the slow months or permanent shift in recognition of large percentage of commuters? No idea.

Smokey23
12-27-2018, 07:55 AM
Denver reps put out 6% commutable trips in January, company looking to double that in February.

An experiment over the slow months or permanent shift in recognition of large percentage of commuters? No idea.

Yeah, I got saddled with a PM-turn-AM 4-day next month. Three sub-twelve-hour layovers.

If the company is trying to reduce fatigue calls... :confused:

ZapBrannigan
12-27-2018, 01:39 PM
Yeah, I got saddled with a PM-turn-AM 4-day next month. Three sub-twelve-hour layovers.

If the company is trying to reduce fatigue calls... :confused:



One manís trash is anotherís treasure. When I commuted I wouldíve given my left arm for a trip like that!


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flyguy81
12-27-2018, 07:00 PM
Denver reps put out 6% commutable trips in January, company looking to double that in February.

An experiment over the slow months or permanent shift in recognition of large percentage of commuters? No idea.

I thought most in DEN lived there. I wonít bid them, so commuters have at it. Going to work before 10 am gives me anxiety. Lol

PowerShift
12-27-2018, 10:43 PM
How is the MSP-MDW commute?

Itís not easy. Our loads are high, and there are always guys coming and going between MSP/MDW. You have ORD and the choo choo train! Switching terminals in MSP is a 30 min deal, so you canít play two close flight at a time.

SlipKid
12-28-2018, 07:14 AM
I thought most in DEN lived there. I wonít bid them, so commuters have at it. Going to work before 10 am gives me anxiety. Lol

MCO has very few commuters, especially on the Capt side, and we've got some PM turned AM nightmares in Jan.

I actually ELITTed into one for a few minutes until I took a look at it. Late PM start on the first day and O'Darkthirty report on the last. I couldn't get out of it fast enough.

RJSAviator76
12-28-2018, 11:36 AM
I actually ELITTed into one for a few minutes until I took a look at it. Late PM start on the first day and O'Darkthirty report on the last. I couldn't get out of it fast enough.


Paging Zap!

CA1900
12-28-2018, 11:45 AM
I actually ELITTed into one for a few minutes until I took a look at it. Late PM start on the first day and O'Darkthirty report on the last. I couldn't get out of it fast enough.

There was one of those in LAS ELITT too. Somebody grabbed it... it's probably a good thing for a commuter, but big circadian shifts are like kryptonite for me.

Skyward
12-28-2018, 09:05 PM
...

I actually ELITTed into one for a few minutes until I took a look at it. Late PM start on the first day and O'Darkthirty report on the last. I couldn't get out of it fast enough.

I just started a similar trip. Elitted into it. Late report first day trending to a somewhat early report on the 3rd day. Commutable both ends...

flyguy81
12-29-2018, 06:34 AM
MCO has very few commuters, especially on the Capt side, and we've got some PM turned AM nightmares in Jan.

I actually ELITTed into one for a few minutes until I took a look at it. Late PM start on the first day and O'Darkthirty report on the last. I couldn't get out of it fast enough.

Lol. Me too. Me too. Saw a later report on the same day I was already working that paid more. So I swapped for it, saw what it was and got my old trip back thankfully.

ZapBrannigan
12-29-2018, 07:20 AM
According to SWAPA 42% of the pilots commute. Trust me, someone wants a line of nothing but PM turned AM commutable trips.

And the company should offer several lines like that in each domicile so that those who do want them can fly them.


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SlipKid
12-29-2018, 07:26 AM
According to SWAPA 42% of the pilots commute. Trust me, someone wants a line of nothing but PM turned AM commutable trips.

And the company should offer several lines like that in each domicile so that those who do want them can fly them.


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100% agreed.

It'd be nice if they'd put them all in the same line so folks that want them can get and keep them, and reduce the number of them in the ELITT minefield.

SlipKid
12-29-2018, 07:28 AM
I just started a similar trip. Elitted into it. Late report first day trending to a somewhat early report on the 3rd day. Commutable both ends...

Ironically, "commutable" PM turned AM lines are the worst ones for my commute. ;)

And you have to get up early on at least one of the days.

Skyward
12-29-2018, 12:26 PM
Personally Iíd prefer a late PM turned earlier Pm trip for commuting purposes. Nobody should have to get up at the time most of our AMs report :eek:

If I can get released around 7 or 8 pm on day 3, itís usually a perfect trip. Itís the 2200-0100 release that adds an extra commute day for me

ZapBrannigan
12-29-2018, 01:37 PM
Personally Iíd prefer a late PM turned earlier Pm trip for commuting purposes. Nobody should have to get up at the time most of our AMs report :eek:



If I can get released around 7 or 8 pm on day 3, itís usually a perfect trip. Itís the 2200-0100 release that adds an extra commute day for me


Glad that works for you. When I commuted it involved catching a train or an Uber over to the big boy airport (ORD, DFW, IAH) and hitching a ride on AA to the town I lived in. I would need to be back in base by around 6 pm to have more than one shot at a commute home.


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