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View Full Version : Virtual Airline?


ecam
12-15-2018, 07:05 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samuelengel1/2018/12/11/indigo-partners-opens-the-sky-for-a-virtual-wow-air/?fbclid=IwAR0UZ7DV4U_c1Y7G6c7MBAvmPJCjW3o1NhlkzMea zDrj6po7K5mqdZx6CDU#56214e461d99

This is being thrown around as Indigo's plan for WOW.

The concept is an airline in name only that code shares 100% of its flights. It chooses the lowest cost airlines it can to codeshare on. It would be much less vulnerable to seasonal variations in loads since it doesn't actually own airplanes and just sells tickets. No need to deal directly with unions or regulators.

This sounds like it's straight off Maury's desk. And nothing in our scope clause prevents it. It would be his wet dream.

While our union fights the good fight on short term issues they need to also keep their eye on the ball with big picture stuff. Winning grievances doesn't matter if the company sells the planes, furloughs the pilots and contracts out all flying to cover its resorts and vacation packages in a few years. Plenty of ACMI carriers would line up to fly G4 code.

Some of you guys keep saying you're sick of the sky is falling crap but sticking your head in the sand won't make problems go away.

Always remember ironclad scope is the most important part of any contract. Without it the rest can be gone with the stroke of a pen.


labbats
12-15-2018, 07:58 AM
Explain how this can be done with our current scope in our contract.

I disagree.

ecam
12-15-2018, 08:10 AM
1.D.2. Nothing in this section shall preclude the Company from entering into a capacity purchase, code-share agreement, a marketing agreement, an interline agreement, a pro-rate, block space agreement, or joint venture, so long as such agreements do not result in the furlough of any of the Company’s Pilots.
1.D.2.a Nothing in Section 1.D.2. prohibits the Company from furloughing Pilots for reasons that are unrelated to the code sharing, capacity purchase, marketing, interline, pro-rate, block space or joint venture agreements.

1.E.1 Contracting Out Transactions Involving Sale/Transfer of Company Aircraft. The Company shall not enter into any transaction involving the sale, lease or transfer of aircraft now or hereafter on the Company’s Operating Specifications whereby such aircraft are used or allowed to be used to perform flying covered by Section1.D.1. for the Company at any time within the twenty-four (24) month period from the commencement date of such transaction.

1.F In the event of a sale or transfer of aircraft, permitted under this Section 1, the Company shall use reasonable efforts to secure the employment with purchaser, lessor or transferee (provided it is an airline) of the Allegiant Air Pilots (if any) who are Furloughed or intended to be Furloughed as a result of such transaction.

All they would have to do is sell the airplanes and assets to a leasing company then shut down Allegiant Air. Then start "Sunseeker Air" as a virtual airline with no actual employees just people in cubicles in the travel company.


labbats
12-15-2018, 08:20 AM
It would result in furloughs. Can’t happen unless we go with the planes.

LoFly
12-15-2018, 08:33 AM
Assuming they want to focus everything on the sunseeker, go-carts and laser tag... Why on earth would they sell a side business that basically prints cash?

FreshWater
12-15-2018, 09:03 AM
And go with the one resort that hasn’t been built. A resort nobody else is willing to invest in.

Busdriver4369
12-15-2018, 09:32 AM
Assuming they want to focus everything on the sunseeker, go-carts and laser tag... Why on earth would they sell a side business that basically prints cash?

It’s crazy how many people think we are essentially a disposable distraction to management. “Well JR is a hotel guy!!” Okay but we make them lots of money, why would they shed a very profitable business?

sqwkvfr
12-15-2018, 09:48 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samuelengel1/2018/12/11/indigo-partners-opens-the-sky-for-a-virtual-wow-air/?fbclid=IwAR0UZ7DV4U_c1Y7G6c7MBAvmPJCjW3o1NhlkzMea zDrj6po7K5mqdZx6CDU#56214e461d99

This is being thrown around as Indigo's plan for WOW.

The concept is an airline in name only that code shares 100% of its flights. It chooses the lowest cost airlines it can to codeshare on. It would be much less vulnerable to seasonal variations in loads since it doesn't actually own airplanes and just sells tickets. No need to deal directly with unions or regulators.

This sounds like it's straight off Maury's desk. And nothing in our scope clause prevents it. It would be his wet dream.

While our union fights the good fight on short term issues they need to also keep their eye on the ball with big picture stuff. Winning grievances doesn't matter if the company sells the planes, furloughs the pilots and contracts out all flying to cover its resorts and vacation packages in a few years. Plenty of ACMI carriers would line up to fly G4 code.

Some of you guys keep saying you're sick of the sky is falling crap but sticking your head in the sand won't make problems go away.

Always remember ironclad scope is the most important part of any contract. Without it the rest can be gone with the stroke of a pen.

Why is it that some people just can’t help themselves from sitting around looking for reasons to be worried or angry?

A virtual airline requires an organization with overwhelmingly positive brand recognition (which we do not have) selling seats or purchasing capacity from an airline with lower CASM, which is not possible.

Relax.

9easy
12-15-2018, 10:04 AM
Maury seems to favor vertical integration and that probably means keeping things in-house. That said, I could see the airline side of the business being spun off and sold to another airline with a guaranteed capacity agreement for an extended amount of time if the focus shifts more to resorts.

LoFly
12-15-2018, 07:18 PM
It’s crazy how many people think we are essentially a disposable distraction to management. “Well JR is a hotel guy!!” Okay but we make them lots of money, why would they shed a very profitable business?

On the other hand it doesn't look like they're willing to spend some extra money to get planes and expand the little money factory gig they have on the side. And from a pilot prospective stagnating while everything and everyone in the industry is moving up sucks BIG time.
But hey, you're at home ever... oh, wait.

RadarColor
12-16-2018, 01:00 PM
Why is it that some people just can’t help themselves from sitting around looking for reasons to be worried or angry?

A virtual airline requires an organization with overwhelmingly positive brand recognition (which we do not have) selling seats or purchasing capacity from an airline with lower CASM, which is not possible.

Relax.

Sounds like a travel agent. Nothing new here.

dutch rudder
12-17-2018, 05:29 AM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/samuelengel1/2018/12/11/indigo-partners-opens-the-sky-for-a-virtual-wow-air/?fbclid=IwAR0UZ7DV4U_c1Y7G6c7MBAvmPJCjW3o1NhlkzMea zDrj6po7K5mqdZx6CDU#56214e461d99

This is being thrown around as Indigo's plan for WOW.

The concept is an airline in name only that code shares 100% of its flights. It chooses the lowest cost airlines it can to codeshare on. It would be much less vulnerable to seasonal variations in loads since it doesn't actually own airplanes and just sells tickets. No need to deal directly with unions or regulators.

This sounds like it's straight off Maury's desk. And nothing in our scope clause prevents it. It would be his wet dream.

While our union fights the good fight on short term issues they need to also keep their eye on the ball with big picture stuff. Winning grievances doesn't matter if the company sells the planes, furloughs the pilots and contracts out all flying to cover its resorts and vacation packages in a few years. Plenty of ACMI carriers would line up to fly G4 code.

Some of you guys keep saying you're sick of the sky is falling crap but sticking your head in the sand won't make problems go away.

Always remember ironclad scope is the most important part of any contract. Without it the rest can be gone with the stroke of a pen.

Now I have heard everything. Ecam, your imagination is truly unmatched. Most of us don’t stick our head in the sand, we just don’t indulge ourselves by speculating every possibility.

ecam
12-17-2018, 05:39 AM
I didn't write the article I just posted it.

Please never run for a leadership position.

dutch rudder
12-17-2018, 07:20 AM
I didn't write the article I just posted it.

Please never run for a leadership position.

Let me be a little more precise... speculating every outrageous possibility all the time.

ecam
12-17-2018, 07:39 AM
The interwebs just aren't as much fun anymore.

grnclvrs
12-18-2018, 07:05 AM
Maybe they could call it Texas Air II or Direct Air II, coz the originals did so well.

labbats
12-18-2018, 07:27 AM
You are all missing the bigger threat!

Maury will join the Pentavret and proceed to inject fried chicken worldwide with zombie juice instantly crashing all markets which they will have shorted like they did before 9/11. Then when a stable base of zombies have made it through a shortened ground school the FAA signed off on after dozens of free pizza parties they will remove all rest rules because.. hey they’re zombies. Then we’re all out of jobs. So obvious.



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