Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




View Full Version : June vacancy


viper548
12-17-2018, 01:56 PM
It's out on aapilots.



52 group 4 CAs
16 group 3 CAs
85 group 2 CAs
44 group 4 FOs




Predictions: Junior group 2 CA 12,100. Junior group 4 FO 12,500. (That would be early 2014/summer 2014 DOH's)


Saabs
12-17-2018, 02:04 PM
Wouldnít summer slots go more senior as there is no training over holidays or summer breaks?

viper548
12-17-2018, 02:07 PM
Wouldnít summer slots go more senior as there is no training over holidays or summer breaks?


Yes, this bid would likely be more junior than an August bid because training for this one is mar/apr/may. This bid is much larger than the other multi month bids we have had so far.


Covfefe
12-17-2018, 02:17 PM
Yes, this bid would likely be more junior than an August bid because training for this one is mar/apr/may. This bid is much larger than the other multi month bids we have had so far.

Looks like this one is even bigger than the one from late summer, isnít it? CA went waaay more jr for that run... hopefully that continues!!

Sliceback
12-17-2018, 03:52 PM
IMO this will be a more senior bid. The September and December bids can impact summer vacations and the holidays. The March and June training occur in the Ďquietestí time of the Jan-May (June IOE for the May training starts).

IMO the first two bids of the year donít impact my life. The last two both might have negative family impacts(summer vacation or the holidays)

Sliceback
12-17-2018, 03:55 PM
Late summer bid (September) is actually summer training with June- August starts. With that being the highest demand part of the year the fewer the training starts = increased pilots on the line and more CKA available to help with the summer demand if necessary.

Name User
12-17-2018, 04:16 PM
My guess is similar to the last bid as far as awards go. I'm guessing your numbers are good for next June's bid.

With 600 retirements a year won't we need 150 CAs a quarter? I know not all the guys retiring are CAs but almost all can hold it.

viper548
12-17-2018, 04:28 PM
My guess is similar to the last bid as far as awards go. I'm guessing your numbers are good for next June's bid.

With 600 retirements a year won't we need 150 CAs a quarter? I know not all the guys retiring are CAs but almost all can hold it.


Yes this bid basically covers a quarter worth of retirement but there will be quite a few people that won't bid for these positions until they can hold a line, get weekends off, avoid coverage days, etc. The last big bid like this saw group 2 CA and group 4 FO drop several hundred numbers.

Sliceback
12-17-2018, 05:39 PM
Rough estimate from the times I've counted is 85% CA's and 15% FO retirements.

I'm working on the end of 2018 seniority bid statuses (with DOH this time) per a request. Looking at the announced vacancies and they're in bid statuses that are more senior and/or have been stagnated recently. The big exception is LGA 777 FO. It's currently 11,748 at the bottom and the bottom G4 FO slot in the company. The six vacancies would have to drop 752 numbers to reach 12,500. If we were betting I'd be betting against 12,500 at the bottom in the June bid. I think there will be some more senior guys back filling.

We'll be smarter come Jan 15-18th!

LIOG41
12-17-2018, 05:55 PM
Floodgates open!

LIOG41
12-17-2018, 05:55 PM
Rough estimate from the times I've counted is 85% CA's and 15% FO retirements.

I'm working on the end of 2018 seniority bid statuses (with DOH this time) per a request. Looking at the announced vacancies and they're in bid statuses that are more senior and/or have been stagnated recently. The big exception is LGA 777 FO. It's currently 11,748 at the bottom and the bottom G4 FO slot in the company. The six vacancies would have to drop 752 numbers to reach 12,500. If we were betting I'd be betting against 12,500 at the bottom in the June bid. I think there will be some more senior guys back filling.

We'll be smarter come Jan 15-18th!

777 FO DFW jumped 2000 numbers last OCT.

EMBFlyer
12-17-2018, 06:31 PM
777 FO DFW jumped 2000 numbers last OCT.

But it went back to being very senior, very quickly. On the bid that came out last June, I would have been able to hold it. Last couple of bids, I've been 1000+ numbers out again.

Reverend
12-18-2018, 02:08 AM
How many of these new CAs will be in DCA and in which aircraft?

aa73
12-18-2018, 02:46 AM
18 known vacancies for DCA737CA. Bring it on!

meyers9163
12-18-2018, 04:35 AM
18 known vacancies for DCA737CA. Bring it on!

Which means we award 0 ;)

As we all know AA doesnít know how to plan. These announcements, until we require them to by contract, never match up.

PRS Guitars
12-18-2018, 05:07 AM
Which means we award 0 ;)

As we all know AA doesnít know how to plan. These announcements, until we require them to by contract, never match up.

Exactly! The vacancy announcement is worthless. And Iím not talking about the fact that there are vacancies created as a biproduct of filling the vacancies. Rather, they announce 10 CA vacancies in CLT and fill none. Stuff like that happens here.

My understanding is that other airlines are contractually required to fill every vacancy announced.

meyers9163
12-18-2018, 07:05 AM
Exactly! The vacancy announcement is worthless. And Iím not talking about the fact that there are vacancies created as a biproduct of filling the vacancies. Rather, they announce 10 CA vacancies in CLT and fill none. Stuff like that happens here.

My understanding is that other airlines are contractually required to fill every vacancy announced.

Yup. However we make excuses here like ďAWA and LUS were tiny.Ē Ignore that when AA wasnít 15k they still didnít do this. DAL and UAL I do believe full theirs. However I donít have their contract in front of me to confirm that?

chicomanicaca
12-18-2018, 07:07 AM
AA should just say "we are going to move pilots around on January 1"!
By the way, January 1 is a Tuesday, not Monday.

Sliceback
12-18-2018, 07:49 AM
777 FO DFW jumped 2000 numbers last OCT.

Sixty seven (?) training starts on the 777. About a half dozen started in October so they'd perhaps only impact the Thanksgiving holiday. The other 60 ish starts made have had training conflicts with Thanksgiving and/or Christmas. Granted they were relatively junior already but IMO that supports the point I was trying to make - senior guys avoid the holiday conflicts if they can and there frequently can be significant back filling after a bid status goes very junior.

The junior FO's on the 777 in DFW, who were on reserve in November, are line holders in January. Guys just senior to them, who've been saying "I'd like to go to the 777 but I don't want to be on reserve" are suddenly going "whoa, did you what they're holding now?" With a couple more Europe trips (most popular to second most popular flying?) the mid pack guys are looking at more bidding horsepower.

And that's just at the bottom of the bid status. How many BNA, MEM, IND, etc, etc commuting to a G2 job have become DFW 777 lineholders as the bottom moved 2500 numbers? A lot. G4 pay changes bidding/vacancy thinking.

QuagmireGiggity
12-18-2018, 08:15 AM
Place your bets.
G2 CA 11700
G4 FO 12200

mainlineAF
12-18-2018, 09:13 AM
Place your bets.

G2 CA 11700

G4 FO 12200



11.5 G2 ca
11.9 G4 fo

chicomanicaca
12-18-2018, 10:09 AM
My bet -

G2 CA 11800
G4 FO 12400

bigscrillywilli
12-18-2018, 11:34 AM
Letís take bets how many weeks itíll take to come out!

After Monday, January 1st 🤣

chicomanicaca
12-18-2018, 12:53 PM
Letís take bets how many weeks itíll take to come out!

After Monday, January 1st 🤣

January 1 is Tuesday!

I bet the results will be posted on January 18.

Arado 234
12-19-2018, 03:59 AM
Which means we award 0 ;)

As we all know AA doesnít know how to plan. These announcements, until we require them to by contract, never match up.

Don't worry. We got APA to.... Nevermind.

Can't wait to read the announcements on Wednesday, Jan 1st.

bigscrillywilli
12-19-2018, 06:04 AM
Don't worry. We got APA to.... Nevermind.

Can't wait to read the announcements on Wednesday, Jan 1st.

Too funny, Wednesday, January 1st 2018

ShyGuy
12-19-2018, 06:16 AM
Group 2 is A320/737, what's group 3? Group 4 are 777/787/330?

Covfefe
12-19-2018, 06:16 AM
Group 2 is A320/737, what's group 3? Group 4 are 777/787/330?

757/767. You are correct on G4.

AFPirate
12-19-2018, 09:03 AM
G2 CA breaks 12,000 (and it will be the LGA 320/737)
G4 FO 12,200 (and it will be the LGA 777)

mainlineAF
12-20-2018, 04:09 AM
Iíve only been paying attention to LGA trips. Up there it seems the 320 trips are MUCH better than the 737.

How about Miami? Is one significantly better than the other (commutability/credit) wise or are they pretty similar?

GucciBoy
12-20-2018, 04:06 PM
My understanding is that other airlines are contractually required to fill every vacancy announced.



FYI Delta is not required to fill posted vacancies either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

PRS Guitars
12-20-2018, 04:22 PM
FYI Delta is not required to fill posted vacancies either.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks for the clarification, I didnít know that.

RhinoBallAuto
12-20-2018, 05:46 PM
Thanks for the clarification, I didnít know that.

But I think DAL has contractual protections to ensure that those vacancies don't get filled by NHs post-award....

PRS Guitars
12-20-2018, 06:27 PM
G2 CA 11300 (sr to now)
G4 FO 11800 (sr to now)
G3 FO 14800 and unfilled, new hires assigned this summer
G1 CA 14600 forced

mainlineAF
12-21-2018, 01:33 AM
G2 CA 11300 (sr to now)

G4 FO 11800 (sr to now)

G3 FO 14800 and unfilled, new hires assigned this summer

G1 CA 14600 forced



Interesting. What makes you say that? On the June bid last year that was similar in size g2 ca dropped 400 numbers.

Rockiepilot
12-21-2018, 02:24 AM
Interesting. What makes you say that? On the June bid last year that was similar in size g2 ca dropped 400 numbers.

Wild guess. Senior pilots held off to bid it for the holidays and to secure their vacation for next year. Doing such knowing movement would still be happening and no need to rush into those positions. Now they will have a premium vacation slot next year, more pilots below them in their new status, and a better schedule then they previously would have with junior pilots who took it the year prior.

Just a guess based on his predictions. One that may very well be right. Many also jumping before the MD80 parking which with the exception of a few new hires is still relatively senior and those pilots being an unknown what theyíll bid to next.

PRS Guitars
12-21-2018, 04:35 AM
Rockiepilot is correct, itís also Slicebackís theory. Also, for the G4 FO, it was a surprise how low it went 2 bids ago. Lots of people trying to get in on the action now.

mainlineAF
12-21-2018, 05:01 AM
Wild guess. Senior pilots held off to bid it for the holidays and to secure their vacation for next year. Doing such knowing movement would still be happening and no need to rush into those positions. Now they will have a premium vacation slot next year, more pilots below them in their new status, and a better schedule then they previously would have with junior pilots who took it the year prior.



Just a guess based on his predictions. One that may very well be right. Many also jumping before the MD80 parking which with the exception of a few new hires is still relatively senior and those pilots being an unknown what theyíll bid to next.



If people wanted to wait for holidays and vacation they could have bid off on the March bid. We bid for vacation in January and you bid for the seat youíre currently occupying. Or at least thatís what i thought.

Why would you jump off an airplane 2 months before itís going to be parked? No seat lock if you get displaced. That doesnít make any sense.

Plus, look at last June bid. Group 2 captain dropped 400.

viper548
12-21-2018, 06:24 AM
I think group 4 FO will continue to drop. I'm about 500 away from it. Of those 500, 56 based in LAX/PHX and are very unlikely to take a cross country commute to sit short call. 25 are DFW767 and most of them at this seniority are seat locked. 28 are DFW S-80 and would probably be withheld until the 80 is parked. 24 are on the 767 in PHL/LGA, many are seat locked. 11 are 190 CA's and would be withheld for a year. That's 144 that are very unlikely to bid LGA-777. Another 80 are in DFW on the 737/320 and not likely to take a bad commute to SC considering DFW 777 has been going almost as junior.

Andrew_VT
12-21-2018, 07:44 AM
I think group 4 FO will continue to drop.

Yes, especially in NYC, because NYC sucks.

LGA G2 CA will keep dropping like a rock too.

viper548
12-21-2018, 08:01 AM
I wouldn't commute to sit SC on the 777. SC reserve on the 777 pays the same as a 90 hour group 2 FO line. Commuting to sit SC G2 captain is about $50k/yr more than a 90 hour FO line.

Brillo
12-21-2018, 08:52 AM
Looking at the pbs awards for LGA, long call seems to go junior on the 777. For PHL itís solidly SC for the 330 at the bottom. Is this solely a commuter thing? More 777 FOís live in base in NYC than PHL 330 FOís, or is there something else to it?

PRS Guitars
12-21-2018, 08:52 AM
If people wanted to wait for holidays and vacation they could have bid off on the March bid. We bid for vacation in January and you bid for the seat you’re currently occupying. Or at least that’s what i thought.

Why would you jump off an airplane 2 months before it’s going to be parked? No seat lock if you get displaced. That doesn’t make any sense.

Plus, look at last June bid. Group 2 captain dropped 400.

I just think the Holliday’s are a bit of a psychological barrier, once padt them, more people will bid. Additionally, there are people who think the company could decide to screw them over by training earlier (in December). This bid is entered after the holidays, that makes it feel safer to bid.

Just guessing, I hope Im wrong by the way, my seniority is in the range of most of your guesses, so...

RhinoBallAuto
12-21-2018, 10:54 AM
I wouldn't commute to sit SC on the 777. SC reserve on the 777 pays the same as a 90 hour group 2 FO line. Commuting to sit SC G2 captain is about $50k/yr more than a 90 hour G2 FO line.

.... And a 90hr G4 FO ≈ 73hr G2 CA

Sliceback
12-21-2018, 01:04 PM
.... And a 90hr G4 FO ≈ 73hr G2 CA

Which is why a lot of commuters choose G4 FO vs G2 rsv. Even non commuting G4 FO's choose G2 CA. The choice is a fairly decent G4 FO schedule vs working less, but more uncertainty and hassle, as a G2 CA on reserve.

Rockiepilot
12-21-2018, 02:19 PM
If people wanted to wait for holidays and vacation they could have bid off on the March bid. We bid for vacation in January and you bid for the seat youíre currently occupying. Or at least thatís what i thought.

Why would you jump off an airplane 2 months before itís going to be parked? No seat lock if you get displaced. That doesnít make any sense.

Plus, look at last June bid. Group 2 captain dropped 400.

They wouldnít bid off. Iím saying the next bid might be one month only? However it could also then include the MD80 displacements. Many MD80 pilots are senior to a lot. So now would be the time for pilots junior to them to bid the group 4 who didnít and havenít previously.

Once the 80 gets parked it could be a little stagnant for a few bids. I.e look at ORD with the MD80 then 767 then STL closure then 777 finally biting it. This bid might finally see some movement there but when you start retiring planes out of a base itís a wild guess. Some may bid over now before those 80s park let alone 767 eventual closure in dfw too.

viper548
12-21-2018, 04:43 PM
I could see a lot of guys getting group 4 FO in DFW on this bid, flying it for the summer, then getting displaced out in the fall when the -80 guys get their displacement bid. Some of those guys will probably get a few months off waiting for training.

Surprise
12-21-2018, 06:37 PM
I could see a lot of guys getting group 4 FO in DFW on this bid, flying it for the summer, then getting displaced out in the fall when the -80 guys get their displacement bid. Some of those guys will probably get a few months off waiting for training.

Maybe, but what is AAís angle? Is it cheaper to run fat on Group IV FOs or spend the money to retrain all the junior guys on something else?

viper548
12-21-2018, 06:44 PM
Maybe, but what is AAís angle? Is it cheaper to run fat on Group IV FOs or spend the money to retrain all the junior guys on something else?


That's a good question. I don't think there is an economical way to take 26 planes off line at once. If I were making the decisions I'd wind them down instead of having 350 pilots needing training all at once.

Surprise
12-21-2018, 06:44 PM
I should add, not that AA always makes sound business decisions. 🙄

mainlineAF
12-22-2018, 05:58 AM
I could see a lot of guys getting group 4 FO in DFW on this bid, flying it for the summer, then getting displaced out in the fall when the -80 guys get their displacement bid. Some of those guys will probably get a few months off waiting for training.


Block hours arenít going down so all of those 80 block hours and pilots will have to be absorbed elsewhere. I just donít see massive displacements occurring.

Al Czervik
12-22-2018, 06:23 AM
Block hours arenít going down so all of those 80 block hours and pilots will have to be absorbed elsewhere. I just donít see massive displacements occurring.

I donít think weíll see anymore secondary displacements with the loss of airframes. Too much hiring/training.

viper548
12-22-2018, 07:04 AM
The vacancy forecast shows big increases in the 737 and 320 staffing for both CA and FO in Nov. It looks like that's where they plan on the S-80 guys going. If they all bid the same thing, they could really screw things up.

Sliceback
12-22-2018, 10:11 AM
The vacancy forecast shows big increases in the 737 and 320 staffing for both CA and FO in Nov. It looks like that's where they plan on the S-80 guys going. If they all bid the same thing, they could really screw things up.

August to November - +66 737 FO's, +175 320 FO's.

S80 FO's - 175 in November
E190's - 144 in November

They'll figure it out. It might not be perfect but AA won't go away in the end of 2019.

FlyyGuyy
12-23-2018, 06:51 AM
https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/A319neo-Certified-232027-1.html


so the 319neo was certified today, maybe AA orders a bunch of these in lieu of the 220? or 195?

bigscrillywilli
12-23-2018, 07:12 AM
Dougweiser says pretty much the same price as a 321, so they donít want it. Iím not sure if fuel-savings cost would play into their decision or not.

Cheddar
12-23-2018, 09:27 AM
https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/A319neo-Certified-232027-1.html


so the 319neo was certified today, maybe AA orders a bunch of these in lieu of the 220? or 195?



The 319Neo was in the works when the CSeries deal was made. Airbus has signaled that the 319Neo was going to be DOA with only a handful of orders. We have stated multiple times that weíd rather order 319ís over a new 100 seat airplane.

Personally Iíd love to see the A220, but Iíll take 100+ more 319ís at G2 rates. It would make sense considering training simplicity, new aircraft acquisition costs and new fleet mx, etc...

I wonder how close the cost comparison is to the A220(300 series).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

TransWorld
12-23-2018, 11:32 AM
You all have hinted around what my crystal ball says.

1. It tells me the A319 is almost the price as an A321. At seats for A321 that price is good. At A319 seats that is not as cost effective.

2. Airbus has hinted the A319neo is DOA.

3. The lines for the A319/A320/A321 are booked with A321 orders.

4. Good low hours used A319s are hard to come by.

5. As markets grow and pilot shortage grows, some of the regional 76 seat will grow to mainline 100-130 seat demand. 50 seats will be parked as they are replaced by 76 seats.

6. Airbus is a motivated seller on the A220. They bought it, they want to keep those lines busy, they want to have market share, and they want to prove a good return on their investment. They will keep the price more competitive than the A319.

7. My bet, consistent with the current pay tables, the A220-100 will be Group 1 and A220-300 will be Group 2.

I realize Americanís management statements today, and statements of some of the pilots here, are contrary to this. I am looking up over the horizon to see what will happen a few years ahead. Or, for those inclined to chess, I am looking at the chess board, 4 or 5 moves ahead.

Sliceback
12-23-2018, 12:14 PM
https://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corporate-topics/publications/backgrounders/Airbus-Commercial-Aircraft-list-prices-2018.pdf


If the product line is running at a high level putting in a smaller model reduces the total profit. Perhaps AB is less willing to negotiate prices as much for 319 deliveries?

Andrew_VT
12-23-2018, 04:20 PM
Missing from this discussion is the E195-E2. This stretched and updated plane can go further than our E190 and Max out our group 1 limit nicely.

Three classes120 seats | 12 @ 36" | 24 @ 34" | 84 @ 31" pitch

a. Group I: With the exception of aircraft identified in Groups II through V below, any aircraft
configured (i.e. as operated by American Airlines) with greater than seventy-six (76) seats
and less than one-hundred-eighteen (118) seats, including E190/195, CRJ-1000, MRJ-
100, and Bombardier CS100.

Cheddar
12-23-2018, 06:29 PM
https://www.airbus.com/content/dam/corporate-topics/publications/backgrounders/Airbus-Commercial-Aircraft-list-prices-2018.pdf


If the product line is running at a high level putting in a smaller model reduces the total profit. Perhaps AB is less willing to negotiate prices as much for 319 deliveries?



Airbus has stated pretty much this when the A220 was unveiled this summer. The cost to produce a 321 over 319 is minimal, and theyíd rather give a Ďdealí on the 321ís as it still ensures profitability to Airbus as a whole.

If you look at some of the aviation business propaganda rags, occasionally youíll discover a gem of an article talking about the dynamics of the 330Neo flagging sales and the anchor that is the A380. Airbus has a winner in the 321Neo, LR and newer (but not yet greenlit) 321XLR. The XLR, if launched, will attempt to preempt the success of the Boeing NMA/797 by being Ďgood enoughí and available before the 797ís maiden flight.

All of that basically signals that the 319Neo, while available, will not be sold on the cheap.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name User
12-23-2018, 06:38 PM
The 319Neo was in the works when the CSeries deal was made. Airbus has signaled that the 319Neo was going to be DOA with only a handful of orders. We have stated multiple times that weíd rather order 319ís over a new 100 seat airplane.

Personally Iíd love to see the A220, but Iíll take 100+ more 319ís at G2 rates. It would make sense considering training simplicity, new aircraft acquisition costs and new fleet mx, etc...

I wonder how close the cost comparison is to the A220(300 series).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The last, several year old, purchase price on the 319ceo I saw was $44m but that was several years old and also not the NEO. Suffice to say itís easily over $50m.

Both Delta and jetBlue purchased their C series aircraft for around $20m a copy. It was, if you believe Boeing, below the cost to manufacture the airplane.

Cheddar
12-23-2018, 06:45 PM
Oh I believe it. Bombardier was desperate to have it flying for anyone.

Iíve heard nothing but amazing things about the airplane, itís just that no one trusted Bombardier would be around long enough to service itís lifecycle costs.

Now with Airbus running the program, I expect sales to get much better.

One thing that may stop AA from buying the A220 is I believe Delta signed an exclusive deal to do all MRO operations in North America. Too bad thereís no money in maintaining aircraft... or putting cargo on them [emoji52]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Name User
12-23-2018, 06:47 PM
Missing from this discussion is the E195-E2. This stretched and updated plane can go further than our E190 and Max out our group 1 limit nicely.

Three classes120 seats | 12 @ 36" | 24 @ 34" | 84 @ 31" pitch

a. Group I: With the exception of aircraft identified in Groups II through V below, any aircraft
configured (i.e. as operated by American Airlines) with greater than seventy-six (76) seats
and less than one-hundred-eighteen (118) seats, including E190/195, CRJ-1000, MRJ-
100, and Bombardier CS100.
Honestly I think managements goal is to keep as little flying from creeping into mainline as possible. There are a ton of markets the 100-120 seat mainline plane would be nice to have but keep in mind the total ramifications of it. Not only pilots, but filtering all the way down to station ops that have contracts that dictate mainline above and below wing personnel.

Delta doesn’t have that issue. They outsource all their ground ops pretty much system wide to DGS (now spun off to get rid of flying benefits) but do use Delta agents above the wing. Also our mtc contract stipulates mainline mechanics as well. Delta...not so much.

There are so many variables that you can’t real compare us to Delta. Just adding another mainline flight might trigger a cost structure that suddenly makes the station unprofitable.

Not that long ago the DC9 didn’t even have 70 seats and was a mainline aircraft. Obviously that ship has sailed but just goes to show you what we've lost. Long term, we will grow ASMs by upgauging seating capacity on mainline planes, example for every AA 737 Doug switches to 172 seats vs premerger 150, we essentially expand by 15% overnight for almost no increase in operating cost.

Sliceback
12-24-2018, 07:02 AM
NameUser - 160 seat 737's started coming on line in early 2011 (pre merger, pre BK) if not sooner.

TransWorld
12-24-2018, 07:54 AM
Honestly I think managements goal is to keep as little flying from creeping into mainline as possible. There are a ton of markets the 100-120 seat mainline plane would be nice to have but keep in mind the total ramifications of it.

Do you think an A220-100 (100 seat) would be contractually settled as a regional plane? I think it would be a Group 1.

Do you think an A220-300 (130 seat) would be contractually settled as either a regional plane or a Group 1 plane? I think it would be a Group 2.

mainlineAF
12-24-2018, 12:19 PM
Do you think an A220-100 (100 seat) would be contractually settled as a regional plane? I think it would be a Group 1.



Do you think an A220-300 (130 seat) would be contractually settled as either a regional plane or a Group 1 plane? I think it would be a Group 2.



Heís saying no matter if itís group 1 or group 2 if it is operated by mainline it then triggers mainline station personnel as well.

Name User
12-24-2018, 01:00 PM
Heís saying no matter if itís group 1 or group 2 if it is operated by mainline it then triggers mainline station personnel as well.

Yep that's it. And their contracts get interesting between LAA and LUS on the ground side. For example, going to RDU, Envoy handles certain gates that LAA parks at and mainline US handles the LUS gates. Keep in mind AA has a 777 in RDU. This is part of the contention between the company and ground unions, they basically want to combine the best of LUS contractual staffing requirements with the best of the LAA vacation, days off, etc. It would trigger a huge staffing increase on the mainline ground side pushing Envoy rates of $10/hr to mainline where they start at $18 IIRC. Caught in the middle are the mechanics who can't get away from them and presto, you have instant stalemate.

Name User
12-24-2018, 01:05 PM
NameUser - 160 seat 737's started coming on line in early 2011 (pre merger, pre BK) if not sooner.

The numbers still work but not as dramatic. Putting 12 additonal seats on a 737 means for every 13 airplanes we had before we now have one free one. Wih 350 airplanes that means we just added 26 to our fleet for the cost of a cabin refurb.

Sliceback
12-25-2018, 07:24 AM
Exactly. The company and financial people talk about growth in terms of ASM. Increasing 1/3 of our fleet by 7.5% equates to a system wide ASM increase of approx 2.5%. Pilot pay hours, which is what we care about, went up zip.

bigscrillywilli
01-05-2019, 04:29 PM
Award out yet?

nimslow
01-05-2019, 04:42 PM
Award out yet?

Probably sometime the week of the 14th, for the prelims.

PRS Guitars
01-05-2019, 06:30 PM
Iím betting 18 Jan...

YourFnout
01-05-2019, 06:47 PM
The 16th, with:
PBS
VACATION
VANCANCY
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

PRS Guitars
01-05-2019, 07:33 PM
The 16th, with:
PBS
VACATION
VANCANCY
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥

The Trifecta...

RhinoBallAuto
01-05-2019, 07:39 PM
The Trifecta...

Hehehe... Or the Tardy Trifecta on the 17th

bigscrillywilli
01-06-2019, 05:04 AM
Those flames will be coming out of the super-commodore Trying to Keep Up!!!

Name User
01-06-2019, 06:29 AM
Those flames will be coming out of the super-commodore Trying to Keep Up!!!

All I can picture is the scene in Christmas Vacation with the electric meter spinning 9000 RPM.

Al Czervik
01-06-2019, 10:05 AM
The 16th, with:
PBS
VACATION
VANCANCY
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥............

viper548
01-15-2019, 03:12 PM
Bid is out. Junior group 2 CA is 121xx, Feb 2014 hire.

Covfefe
01-15-2019, 03:13 PM
Award out yet?


Yes...........

mainlineAF
01-15-2019, 03:14 PM
Who would of thought Philly bus captain would have gone so junior?

RhinoBallAuto
01-15-2019, 03:39 PM
Who would of thought Philly bus captain would have gone so junior?

Or quite so many!

viper548
01-15-2019, 04:03 PM
Who would of thought Philly bus captain would have gone so junior?


LAX 737: 12,0xx
LGA 320: 11,5xx
DCA 737: 11,999


LGA is now the 4th most junior G2 captain base. Didn't see that coming.

PRS Guitars
01-15-2019, 04:49 PM
Happily wrong on my poor prediction.

mainlineAF
01-15-2019, 04:58 PM
Iím happy to be able to say i told you so PRS lol

Covfefe
01-15-2019, 05:04 PM
Iím surprised NB CA went so Jr and surprised 777FO went more senior than last bid...

LIOG41
01-15-2019, 05:05 PM
DFW 787 FO (Grp4) - 11,7xx

LIOG41
01-15-2019, 05:06 PM
Iím surprised NB CA went so Jr and surprised 777FO went more senior than last bid...

Its all in cycles, you'll see it go junior again prob in 1-3 bids.

Dobbs18
01-15-2019, 06:09 PM
So I counted 35 CLT/320/FOs being awarded something else, and ZERO CLT/320/FO positions awarded...oh and zero CLT/320/CA awarded either, although I didnít count how many CAs bid off it. Whatís up with that?

mainlineAF
01-15-2019, 06:45 PM
So I counted 35 CLT/320/FOs being awarded something else, and ZERO CLT/320/FO positions awarded...oh and zero CLT/320/CA awarded either, although I didnít count how many CAs bid off it. Whatís up with that?



If i had to guess the amount of 73 flying is eating into the airbus block hours. I wouldnít be shocked to see a clt 737 base soon.

Thedude
01-15-2019, 07:01 PM
So I counted 35 CLT/320/FOs being awarded something else, and ZERO CLT/320/FO positions awarded...oh and zero CLT/320/CA awarded either, although I didnít count how many CAs bid off it. Whatís up with that?

Tons of guys trying to get CLT. Even though there hasnít been any positions awarded to CLT in awhile and we have lots of retirements in CLT, we continue to stagnate or go backwards in seniority.

Rockiepilot
01-15-2019, 07:21 PM
Or quite so many!

LUS retirements? Makes perfect sense. CLT seems to be ďright sizingĒ and other bases must be seeing a lot of CLT AB flying this summer.

Dobbs18
01-15-2019, 07:51 PM
LUS retirements? Makes perfect sense. CLT seems to be ďright sizingĒ and other bases must be seeing a lot of CLT AB flying this summer.

the vacancy showed CLT 320 FO numbers at 554 for June 19 and 554 for Aug19. There were 567 on the Jan PBS award report, so maybe some. 35 seems like a high number to not backfill some, unless there are some out on some sort of leave, but even so they have to account for that on a monthly basis. The even more puzzling part is not filling any CLT 320 CA slots, the rsv CA i fly with say they fly all the time and OG is readily available. There was 17 CLT/320/CA that bid elsewhere by my count.

Rockiepilot
01-16-2019, 02:42 AM
the vacancy showed CLT 320 FO numbers at 554 for June 19 and 554 for Aug19. There were 567 on the Jan PBS award report, so maybe some. 35 seems like a high number to not backfill some, unless there are some out on some sort of leave, but even so they have to account for that on a monthly basis. The even more puzzling part is not filling any CLT 320 CA slots, the rsv CA i fly with say they fly all the time and OG is readily available. There was 17 CLT/320/CA that bid elsewhere by my count.

Cheaper to pay OG and staff it that away? Just a guess. However more logical part says CLT is like PHX. In AA world it was too large for one plane. Theyíre trimming it down and will transition crews. If you look at actual 737 departures itís not that many as it seems. AA keeps saying no to PHX 737 which of all them seems it would make the most sense?

KiloAlpha
01-16-2019, 03:17 AM
Still no FO slots awarded in CLT. Again

Edit: I didnít see the previous posts.

Icaruss
01-16-2019, 10:51 AM
So, if youíre happy with round 1 results. What should I doon the ballots for Rounds 2-4? Should I delete the ballots, little confused how that works.

Name User
01-16-2019, 12:49 PM
So, if youíre happy with round 1 results. What should I doon the ballots for Rounds 2-4? Should I delete the ballots, little confused how that works.

If all your vacation was awarded it doesn't matter. If you have days that are available you should bid.

QuagmireGiggity
01-16-2019, 02:12 PM
Place your bets.
G2 CA 11700
G4 FO 12200
Baboom!.......not too bad I guess. Kinda backward tho.

bigscrillywilli
01-16-2019, 05:47 PM
When does July vacancy close? Hahahah

PRS Guitars
01-16-2019, 05:55 PM
So, if you’re happy with round 1 results. What should I doon the ballots for Rounds 2-4? Should I delete the ballots, little confused how that works.

Did you bid for all 3 weeks as one block? And get it? If so, you’re done. Or did you only have 1 week to bid? If so, you’re done.

If you have weeks left, you need to bid for placement of those weeks in round 2-4, which happens all in one bid.

Also, as a heads up, this is completely separate from the vacancy bid...

cactusmike
01-16-2019, 08:43 PM
Iím surprised NB CA went so Jr and surprised 777FO went more senior than last bid...

Donít be surprised. G2 captain at the lower levels of seniority percentage are worked like sled dogs. Add in the number of commuters, particularly at bases like LGA where itís super expensive to live, and the lack of commutable trips at that seniority and you will see a resistance to bidding captain from people that can hold G3 and especially G4 f/o, aka ďdozing for dollarsĒ. I hear it every trip I fly. Not many guys want to deal with the constant reroutes and multi leg days.

Craigmac3030
01-17-2019, 07:04 AM
Any predictions on how jr GP 2 CA goes over the next few yrs say out to 2021 with increasing retirements. Any chance it goes above 12,500-13,000??!!

Name User
01-17-2019, 08:19 AM
Any predictions on how jr GP 2 CA goes over the next few yrs say out to 2021 with increasing retirements. Any chance it goes above 12,500-13,000??!!

I'm guessing it will hover around the same % where it is currently.

aa73
01-17-2019, 12:30 PM
Donít be surprised. G2 captain at the lower levels of seniority percentage are worked like sled dogs. Add in the number of commuters, particularly at bases like LGA where itís super expensive to live, and the lack of commutable trips at that seniority and you will see a resistance to bidding captain from people that can hold G3 and especially G4 f/o, aka ďdozing for dollarsĒ. I hear it every trip I fly. Not many guys want to deal with the constant reroutes and multi leg days.

Not at all true for me. G2 NB CA has been a lot more relaxing, with a lot more time at home, than WB Intl FO ever was for me. And Iím not near as tired. I barely get rerouted/RAíd. In fact G2 CA has been the best gig so far in my 19 years here. But hey to each their own

RhinoBallAuto
01-17-2019, 01:38 PM
I'm guessing it will hover around the same % where it is currently.

It will only go lower if we grow

Name User
01-17-2019, 01:55 PM
Not at all true for me. G2 NB CA has been a lot more relaxing, with a lot more time at home, than WB Intl FO ever was for me. And Iím not near as tired. I barely get rerouted/RAíd. In fact G2 CA has been the best gig so far in my 19 years here. But hey to each their own

SC reserve in base?

Saabs
01-17-2019, 02:31 PM
Not at all true for me. G2 NB CA has been a lot more relaxing, with a lot more time at home, than WB Intl FO ever was for me. And Iím not near as tired. I barely get rerouted/RAíd. In fact G2 CA has been the best gig so far in my 19 years here. But hey to each their own
While I get reassigned all the time so disagree with you on that - as a G4 FO were you sitting reserve or holding a line? And weíre you living in base or commuting? If a lineholder what type of trips and days off were you holding? Just curious as I might move to a hub and bid group 4.

PRS Guitars
01-17-2019, 03:45 PM
Not at all true for me. G2 NB CA has been a lot more relaxing, with a lot more time at home, than WB Intl FO ever was for me. And Iím not near as tired. I barely get rerouted/RAíd. In fact G2 CA has been the best gig so far in my 19 years here. But hey to each their own

I was all about trying G4 FO, but looking now, I doubt Iíll do it. Iíd be just as jr on 320 CA but making a lot more money. People talk as if youíll hold a line as a G4 FO quicker, but it looks the same to me and $40ish K more a year.

Iíll probably do 6 months G4 and bail for G2 CA. As a bonus it costs an extra training cycle to the company.

RhinoBallAuto
01-17-2019, 05:45 PM
I was all about trying G4 FO, but looking now, I doubt Iíll do it. Iíd be just as jr on 320 CA but making a lot more money. People talk as if youíll hold a line as a G4 FO quicker, but it looks the same to me and $40ish K more a year.

Iíll probably do 6 months G4 and bail for G2 CA. As a bonus it costs an extra training cycle to the company.

Run the numbers...
90hrs G4 FO ≈ 73hrs G2 CA.

It'll come down to your preference for line vs res, and type of flying.

UPTme
01-17-2019, 05:56 PM
Iíll probably do 6 months G4 and bail for G2 CA. As a bonus it costs an extra training cycle to the company.

If a good number of people did this, we would have A LOT of G4 FOs making G2CA pay because of withholding. Lots of training cycles! Great idea.

aa73
01-17-2019, 07:03 PM
SC reserve in base?

Today Iím a LH in base. But I started as a commuter to LC to LGA for 3 months. Easy peasy. Then transitioned to a line in LGA, then transferred done here for SC reserve in base. Now a LH.

Even commuting to LC reserve on domestic G2 CA was tons easier than flying those long haul trips that left me brain dead for 2-3 days after...only to repeat it all over again.

Name User
01-17-2019, 07:10 PM
I was all about trying G4 FO, but looking now, I doubt Iíll do it. Iíd be just as jr on 320 CA but making a lot more money. People talk as if youíll hold a line as a G4 FO quicker, but it looks the same to me and $40ish K more a year.

Iíll probably do 6 months G4 and bail for G2 CA. As a bonus it costs an extra training cycle to the company.

That is my plan as well. You can break your lock for first upgrade, right? After six months I think? I figure go get a new type, do international for a bit, then bid G2 CA to break your lock.

Name User
01-17-2019, 07:11 PM
Today Iím a LH in base. But I started as a commuter to LC to LGA for 3 months. Easy peasy. Then transitioned to a line in LGA, then transferred done here for SC reserve in base. Now a LH.

Even commuting to LC reserve on domestic G2 CA was tons easier than flying those long haul trips that left me brain dead for 2-3 days after...only to repeat it all over again.

I agree I much prefer local domestic stuff except for the heavy leg days and short overnights.

However it's different if you are only working 8-10 days on reserve vs 18 on reserve in an understaffed category/base.

aa73
01-17-2019, 07:15 PM
True statement... Iíve been blessed to be based in a relatively small base that doesnít fly much.

Rockiepilot
01-18-2019, 02:11 AM
True statement... Iíve been blessed to be based in a relatively small base that doesnít fly much.

DCA 737 ;) A hidden gem new hires should really consider over LGA or MIA.

nimslow
01-18-2019, 09:20 AM
DCA 737 ;) A hidden gem new hires should really consider over LGA or MIA.

I started in DCA on the 80, great base, small bid status, we only flew 30ish hours a month back then. Great deal living there, not so sweet for commuters.

Being a junior ca on the 73 is starting to feel like the land of the misfit toys. Movement has slowed to a trickle the last few bids, while the bus has had big awards going junior.

18 months in, and still commuting to reserve, I cant hold a line anywhere (except for the occasional hybrid with vacation or training) while I'd be in solid line holding territory on the bus in LGA. The last bid would have had me going home if I were on the bus, still just out of reach on the 73.

Rockiepilot
01-18-2019, 12:05 PM
I started in DCA on the 80, great base, small bid status, we only flew 30ish hours a month back then. Great deal living there, not so sweet for commuters.

Being a junior ca on the 73 is starting to feel like the land of the misfit toys. Movement has slowed to a trickle the last few bids, while the bus has had big awards going junior.

18 months in, and still commuting to reserve, I cant hold a line anywhere (except for the occasional hybrid with vacation or training) while I'd be in solid line holding territory on the bus in LGA. The last bid would have had me going home if I were on the bus, still just out of reach on the 73.

Yeah Captain side a different story. FO side however has seen some get nice movement the past year for sure.

Also DCA like many LUS bases seems to have many approaching mandatory retirement? Youíd know more on that then me but anytime I hand a plane away to DCA crews there seems to be a lot with few years left?

Dobbs18
01-18-2019, 06:51 PM
If a good number of people did this, we would have A LOT of G4 FOs making G2CA pay because of withholding. Lots of training cycles! Great idea.
this isnt a big secret, I know ALOT of FOs that have this plan as well...hopefully the seat lock rules dont change in the next contract 🤔

cactusmike
01-18-2019, 09:16 PM
Today Iím a LH in base. But I started as a commuter to LC to LGA for 3 months. Easy peasy. Then transitioned to a line in LGA, then transferred done here for SC reserve in base. Now a LH.

Even commuting to LC reserve on domestic G2 CA was tons easier than flying those long haul trips that left me brain dead for 2-3 days after...only to repeat it all over again.


Thatís great that this has worked for you. Iím hearing one side of the story, itís good to get other feedback.

If you canít nap then longhaul doesnít work for most people. Iím lucky, as soon as I lay down in the bunk, Iím out.

aa73
01-19-2019, 05:52 AM
I started in DCA on the 80, great base, small bid status, we only flew 30ish hours a month back then. Great deal living there, not so sweet for commuters.

Being a junior ca on the 73 is starting to feel like the land of the misfit toys. Movement has slowed to a trickle the last few bids, while the bus has had big awards going junior.

18 months in, and still commuting to reserve, I cant hold a line anywhere (except for the occasional hybrid with vacation or training) while I'd be in solid line holding territory on the bus in LGA. The last bid would have had me going home if I were on the bus, still just out of reach on the 73.

Where you based? Did you take a look at DCA? exactly the opposite... massive movement on the 737 and very little on the Bus. I was 4 from the bottom all last year.. now suddenly by June I’m gonna have like 50 below me. Bottom DCA CA award went down to almost 11000...

Still enjoying a gentleman’s schedule flying domestic NB out of here... hoping that stays the same! I feel for my NB bros in other bases that are getting hammered.

PRS Guitars
01-19-2019, 07:52 AM
Run the numbers...
90hrs G4 FO ≈ 73hrs G2 CA.

It'll come down to your preference for line vs res, and type of flying.

Yeah, but I was trying to say (and didnít do a good job) that the comparison of 90hr G4 FO to 73 hrs g2 CA is invalid at my seniority. The better comparison is 76 hrs to 76 hrs. Because the bid statuses I compare show that Iíd be reserve no matter what.

RhinoBallAuto
01-19-2019, 07:53 AM
Yeah, but I was trying to say (and didnít do a good job) that the comparison of 90hr G4 FO to 73 hrs g2 CA is invalid at my seniority. The better comparison is 76 hrs to 76 hrs. Because the bid statuses I compare show that Iíd be reserve no matter what.

Fair point, for sure

nimslow
01-19-2019, 10:17 AM
Where you based? Did you take a look at DCA? exactly the opposite... massive movement on the 737 and very little on the Bus. I was 4 from the bottom all last year.. now suddenly by June Iím gonna have like 50 below me. Bottom DCA CA award went down to almost 11000...

Still enjoying a gentlemanís schedule flying domestic NB out of here... hoping that stays the same! I feel for my NB bros in other bases that are getting hammered.

I know DCA was the 73 winner this bid, and it of course changes every bid. Overall, using my tired commuting brain, I see 140 737 captain awards for June, and 231 A320 captain awards. I don't have it anymore, but the last one also had more bus than 73.

I would think the next two years will be pretty lean for the 73, since the majority of new aircraft deliveries will be Airbus.

I'm in Miami for a couple more months, then back to NYC. My relative seniority took a dive when we combined the divisions, and I'm still not back to where I was in the international division when I first got here.

I should get an entitlement to airbus ca on this bid, that I can exercise the next bid. But I'm fully expecting a 12 month withhold, since thats what everyone I know who has bid from the 73 to the bus recently has gotten.

swaayze
01-20-2019, 07:08 AM
I think this is delivery-driven.

For most of the last year or so the Bus was pretty stagnant for my status while 73 continued to add folks and my relative seniority would have been better on that. Now weíre staffing for resumption of Bus deliveries and adding lots of FOs to my status.

I think we continue to get 73s as well this year (?) so hang in there. Unless you really want to come to the Bus I think youíll see your desired 73 job soon nimslow.

nimslow
01-21-2019, 04:55 AM
I think this is delivery-driven.

For most of the last year or so the Bus was pretty stagnant for my status while 73 continued to add folks and my relative seniority would have been better on that. Now weíre staffing for resumption of Bus deliveries and adding lots of FOs to my status.

I think we continue to get 73s as well this year (?) so hang in there. Unless you really want to come to the Bus I think youíll see your desired 73 job soon nimslow.

I remain optimistic. However, DFW is my end game, and the September bid should bring the final MD80 displacements, so my money is on Sometime in 2020.

N10DJ
01-21-2019, 01:37 PM
Anyone think upgrade time is going to keep trending down? What are the chances that come a year or so from now it’s down to 2 or 3 years from new hire to G2 left seat. I find the logistics of all this quite interesting. All I want is some movement in Charlotte lol.

viper548
01-21-2019, 01:49 PM
Anyone think upgrade time is going to keep trending down? What are the chances that come a year or so from now itís down to 2 or 3 years from new hire to G2 left seat. I find the logistics of all this quite interesting. All I want is some movement in Charlotte lol.

It's been trending more and more junior the last few years, especially since the single seniority list. I think it will go more junior over the next year. As people get fed up with PBS, our work rules (or lack of), coverage days, January vacations, red/redder, etc. they will want to get at least a little seniority before upgrading. As more people learn how to use IMAX to their advantage, you may see more people wanting to be senior in the right seat.

biigD
01-21-2019, 03:11 PM
As more people learn how to use IMAX to their advantage, you may see more people wanting to be senior in the right seat.

I keep hearing this and am curious - other than getting the time off, how does this work?

Andrew_VT
01-21-2019, 03:48 PM
I keep hearing this and am curious - other than getting the time off, how does this work?

Step 1: Have no life.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit.

(Seriously... you have to be totally flexible schedule-wise the majority of the time)

Covfefe
01-21-2019, 03:52 PM
I keep hearing this and am curious - other than getting the time off, how does this work?

Basically work your a$$ off for 8 months, especially in the summer, and if you planned properly you might get some time off.

viper548
01-21-2019, 04:03 PM
Step 1: Have no life.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit.

(Seriously... you have to be totally flexible schedule-wise the majority of the time)

apa website. Quicklinks, compass project, documents index, IMAX.

TLDR- Fly 90 hours a month. In FAR max months drop trips using PVDs, then pick up more trips. Essentially you trade next year's vacation to lower your IMAX to a point where you can get a few months off this year, with pay.
If you want to fly some low time months or bid reserve this strategy won't work for you.

Covfefe
01-21-2019, 04:03 PM
Step 1: Have no life.
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Profit.

(Seriously... you have to be totally flexible schedule-wise the majority of the time)

Kinda/sorta. The key item is that you have to have a low credit month, then average over 90hrs for 6 months or so then have 2 huuuuge credit months (140 hours-ish), then when that low credit month drops off the 8 month average, you all of a sudden are IMAXed. There are ways to snowball it from there. The trick is the huge credit months that you either need to be senior/lucky enough for premium or vacation drop trips. So since the no float campaign, vacation dropping a trip isnt possible, so you mostly have to hope for premium, which if youíre junior, you ainít gettin. So unless you can do that stuff, you wonít imax and will be limited to 90hrs a month avg. Some guys make it work... for some reason they never want to tell you how, theyíd rather just call you stupid and tell you that you need to educate yourself without further elaboration, but they all essentially do the above.

Andrew_VT
01-21-2019, 04:03 PM
Basically work your a$$ off for 8 months, especially in the summer, and if you planned properly you might get some time off.

Yup, let's just say the best IMAXers aren't exactly the kind of people that let life get in the way of their work.

I wouldn't be sad to see it negotiated away for literally anything else.

RhinoBallAuto
01-21-2019, 04:07 PM
There is so much bad info being put out here IRT IMAX. Read the APA product on the Compass homepage.

Covfefe
01-21-2019, 04:11 PM
Yup, let's just say the best IMAXers aren't exactly the kind of people that let life get in the way of their work.

I wouldn't be sad to see it negotiated away for literally anything else.

I certainly wouldnít want to give it away, but I think we can do much better. Admittedly, I donít know what that would be, but Iím not big at all on limiting the masses on pay so the few that can make it work get time off. We could start with 200% premium, redo the OT process, re-evaluate OG/MU, pickup of POSTED trips within the footprint of a canceled sequence (double dip), etc. just spitballing. But even though I think IMAX isnít ideal for the group, Iím not keen on giving it up unless we get something BETTER.

Covfefe
01-21-2019, 04:12 PM
There is so much bad info being put out here IRT IMAX. Read the APA product on the Compass homepage.

I did. Thatís where about 99% of my post came from.

Andrew_VT
01-21-2019, 04:12 PM
then average over 90hrs for 6 months or so then have 2 huuuuge credit months (140 hours-ish)

Sorry family, I know I've been working a ton these past 6 months, but if I really neglect you for the next 2 months I can get a month off with pay when you're in school and have work.

Andrew_VT
01-21-2019, 04:20 PM
TLDR- Fly 90 hours a month. In FAR max months drop trips using PVDs, then pick up more trips.

We've had a no-float campaign for 2 of the last 3 years. So now the best IMAXers will also be the crappiest union members as well...

R57 relay
01-21-2019, 04:22 PM
I'm no IMAX expert, but one question- can 90% of pilots do this successfully?

I want a scheduling system that works well for the majority of the pilots, the majority of the time. Not one that works for the smartest/craftiest/hardest working/obsessed(pick your adjective) 10%.

biigD
01-21-2019, 04:22 PM
Thanks guys. Iíll read up on it on the APA site, but it doesnít sound like anything Iíd be interested in.

Covfefe
01-21-2019, 04:29 PM
Thanks guys. Iíll read up on it on the APA site, but it doesnít sound like anything Iíd be interested in.

Take an honest look at it... if it works for you, great! It definitely does for some.

viper548
01-21-2019, 04:56 PM
You used to be able to see what everyone's IMAX is. The most recent month I see it for is Aug 18. In my bid status there were 226 awards that month. None had an IMAX below 79. A handful had an IMAX below 100. It's a small selection and just one data point but it appears very few people take advantage of IMAX. It seemed like guys were able to IMAX out for the fall months and unfortunately I can't see the IMAX numbers for those months.

ORDinary
01-22-2019, 06:37 AM
Does anyone know when the final results come out?

KiloAlpha
01-22-2019, 08:18 AM
Does anyone know when the final results come out?

Is there ever a change between the prelim and final?

ORDinary
01-22-2019, 08:23 AM
Is there ever a change between the prelim and final?

In a way, yes: then we can find out when we are transferring.

Al Czervik
01-22-2019, 08:29 AM
In a way, yes: then we can find out when we are transferring.

Did you get ord?

DarinFred
01-22-2019, 10:46 AM
So people who use the their resources in the contract have no life and are bad union members? Bullish!t. I averaged about 80 hours hard flying time each month and got 9 weeks off with pay. Yes, when I was sick, I used that sick call to bump my PROJ. When a trip turned green, I dropped it with PVDs to run my credit up.

People who talk crap about IMAX are generally ones who are too lazy to learn it. They want the union to spoon feed them.

The company is never going to allow FAR MAX each month. They arenít going to let you time out. IMAX letís you ďtime outĒ AND get paid for it. Let me say that again. You get PAID. No other airline has that.

Also, if you mention Premium in the same sentence as IMAX, youíve just shown you have no idea. Those that are trying to build credit to get IMAXed will turn down Premium because it doesnít help them. Itís only helpful during those months they are limited because it goes above your IMAX guarantee.

EMBFlyer
01-22-2019, 11:31 AM
Is there ever a change between the prelim and final?

A few things can change between the prelim and final bids. There could be errors on the prelims. A lot of it is still done by hand (shocking, I know).

Photon1
01-22-2019, 03:45 PM
So people who use the their resources in the contract have no life and are bad union members? Bullish!t. I averaged about 80 hours hard flying time each month and got 9 weeks off with pay. Yes, when I was sick, I used that sick call to bump my PROJ. When a trip turned green, I dropped it with PVDs to run my credit up.

People who talk crap about IMAX are generally ones who are too lazy to learn it. They want the union to spoon feed them.

The company is never going to allow FAR MAX each month. They arenít going to let you time out. IMAX letís you ďtime outĒ AND get paid for it. Let me say that again. You get PAID. No other airline has that.

Also, if you mention Premium in the same sentence as IMAX, youíve just shown you have no idea. Those that are trying to build credit to get IMAXed will turn down Premium because it doesnít help them. Itís only helpful during those months they are limited because it goes above your IMAX guarantee.

Whatever chump. If you like IMAX, fine. Lots of guys I know "talk crap about it" but aren't lazy in any regard. Money isnt everything to alot of people. I can see it's your precious little baby, how dare anyone make comments about it. And wanting the union to spoon feed them? Dumb.

DarinFred
01-22-2019, 04:07 PM
Guess Iím a chump. Paid 1200 hours for 600 hours hard time with 9 weeks off.

Literally the one thing we have better than Delta and youíre too stupid and ignorant to see it.

Weíre f&cked.

UPTme
01-22-2019, 04:07 PM
Whatever chump. If you like IMAX, fine. Lots of guys I know "talk crap about it" but aren't lazy in any regard. Money isnt everything to alot of people. I can see it's your precious little baby, how dare anyone make comments about it. And wanting the union to spoon feed them? Dumb.

Ah, photon back to personal attacks. What an addition to the board. CnR misses you.

Photon1
01-22-2019, 04:19 PM
Ah, photon back to personal attacks. What an addition to the board. CnR misses you.

OMG!!! Your candyass calls that personal attack??? Your butt buddy generalizes folks that arent interested in his program as lazy and wanting to be spoon fed which i think is a dumb statement. And then he calls me ignorant. He is right though, we are f'd with candyasses running around regarding everything as a personal attack. To the point, I dont think its a matter of being to lazy to learn it. I think alot of folks just arent interested in the execution. But I am not demeaning anyone who does it.

Cheddar
01-22-2019, 04:20 PM
I have a friend that works IMAX really well, and never works more than 14-15 days a month and usually has two off (NOV/DEC) with the occasional premium trip. Heís always working though, trying to play the game that works for him.

For awhile I worked more trip trading to get turns than I worked at the company, and that was exhausting but fun in a way. Turns were actually pretty tiring, but I was home every night for two years with two exceptions (meeting a buddy for a mancation using MU to pick up a 1-1). I was always on the computer, and always checking my phone and LS for trades. But now Iím enjoying early retirement on the jr widebody - and I check AAreserve once a day and thereís usually NOTHING going on. Hopefully this will continue for the next twenty years.

Boring story short, Iíve found my niche and Iím very happy with it. Although I canít see a scenario where I would ever IMAX (unless I get so bored that I bid 320/CA), itís in the contract and if we ever give it up, we should get amazing returns for it (beyond INDUSTRY LEADING).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Photon1
01-22-2019, 04:22 PM
Guess Iím a chump. Paid 1200 hours for 600 hours hard time with 9 weeks off.

Literally the one thing we have better than Delta and youíre too stupid and ignorant to see it.

Weíre f&cked.

I see it jackass. I know what it does. I'm not interested in it. You can do it it your hearts content. Im not calling for it to go. I simply responded to your generalization about laziness and spoon feeding. BFD.

Cheddar
01-22-2019, 04:23 PM
Guess Iím a chump. Paid 1200 hours for 600 hours hard time with 9 weeks off.



Literally the one thing we have better than Delta and youíre too stupid and ignorant to see it.



Weíre f&cked.



Nope, thatís how itís done!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Photon1
01-22-2019, 04:36 PM
Guess Iím a chump. Paid 1200 hours for 600 hours hard time with 9 weeks off.

Literally the one thing we have better than Delta and youíre too stupid and ignorant to see it.

Weíre f&cked.

If you'd read my post closely enough you would've notice that I didnt criticize what IMAX strategy can result in. So i'm happy you worked it. Got no problem with that. The thrust of my post was a response to a generalizing of people and an accusation of wanting to be spoon fed. Had nothing to do with your IMAX results.

DarinFred
01-22-2019, 04:47 PM
I stick by my generalization. The ones who criticize it are to ones too lazy to open the contract and learn it.

But you do you.

Covfefe
01-22-2019, 05:32 PM
Guess Iím a chump. Paid 1200 hours for 600 hours hard time with 9 weeks off.

Literally the one thing we have better than Delta and youíre too stupid and ignorant to see it.

Weíre f&cked.

Instead of calling people stupid, how about you try to educate others on how you accomplished that. That will probably help your cause... Iíve read the contract, the APA IMAX guide, and have done my own spreadsheet to mess with the numbers. I canít cone up with a reasonable plan without relying on ridiculously high credit months in the summers.

DarinFred
01-22-2019, 05:56 PM
Are you a member of Below the Line on FB. There are numerous people there that will help you.

Trick #1 - If you get sick on a 3 or 4 day and have a few days off after, call in sick, wait 6 hours and call in well so you can trip trade again. Then pick up a trip on the days off after your sick call from below the line (to help a fellow pilot out). So, you have days off over the footprint of your sick call that youíre getting paid for from your sick bank, youíre resetting your 100 in 30 (far max), and youíre adding 15 to 21 hours to your credit with the trip over the original days off. Just one little trick if youíre willing to do it.

There are others like this. IMAX isnít as easy as sitting short call in base. It takes work. Youíre gonna work. But with a little planning, some flexibility, and knowledge, itís just really not that difficult.

DarinFred
01-22-2019, 05:59 PM
And yes, you need 2 ridiculously high months to make it work. But a $25k to $30k month every now and then as an FO is nice. Buy your wife a gift with the money or take your family on vacation during your 2 months off...Iím sure theyíll understand. Or donít.

UPTme
01-22-2019, 06:06 PM
I see it jackass. I know what it does. I'm not interested in it. You can do it it your hearts content. Im not calling for it to go. I simply responded to your generalization about laziness and spoon feeding. BFD.

I wish Do Not Pair lists were public.

mainlineAF
01-22-2019, 06:08 PM
Threads like these make me cringe.

DarinFred
01-22-2019, 06:14 PM
Let me add that Iím not trying to offend anyone. Seriously, PM me* and Iíll teach you everything I know about IMAX. My angst is directed at those who want to eliminate it because they arenít smart on it. They throw spears because they see others reaping the benefits.

*Unless youíre Sliceback.

Covfefe
01-22-2019, 06:27 PM
And yes, you need 2 ridiculously high months to make it work. But a $25k to $30k month every now and then as an FO is nice. Buy your wife a gift with the money or take your family on vacation during your 2 months off...Iím sure theyíll understand. Or donít.

Thanks for the previous post... I really think the IMAX proponents need to help folks see the light a bit more clearly. I read it over and over again on here and CnR about how people need to educate themselves or get talked down to, etc, without any elaboration. The fact is, there ARE tricks to the game that many do not see, even after reading the contract and IMAX guide. I donít know if some think they will let the cat out of the bag or what, but Iím reasonablly certain that the company knows EXACTLY how all this is happening.

We need to help each other out folks... if IMAX is truly the greatest thing (and Iím still not entirely convinced), then HELP OTHERS SEE THE LIGHT. If itís not the best thing, letís find that thing that is better...

And for you petty childish idiots out there (you know who you are) grow the F up. Whatever your problem is, you certainly arenít helping anyone here by being a belligerent a$$. If you are typing away at a post, ask yourself if you are actually helping, hurting the group, or selfishly trying to pump up your own ego.

Everyone else, just ignore these idiots and hopefully they go away. For once, how about we all work together and make this forum a valuable place. Crazy concept.

seafeye
01-23-2019, 10:14 AM
Iím all for people being able to work the system and make some extra money.
I do have a problem with having to forgo vacation or use sick time to do it.
Holidays should pay more.
We shouldnít have a system that separates reserves from line holders. Reserves should be able to pick up on days off. Not just get leftovers.
Of course each reserve day needs to have a credit. We shouldnít work for free.
8 hours of flying for a line holder should pay 8 hours. Same for reserves.
Vacation day should pay the same as a training pay or a sick day.
Sick no charge shouldnít be charged more that the average day pay. (Funny how they always find 8 hour days to charge your sick bank)....

Equality for all pilots.
Same contract for line holders and for reserves.
IMAX should benefit everyone.

DarinFred
01-23-2019, 12:38 PM
I 100% agree with every one of those things. None of those have anything to do with IMAX. Separate them. We shouldnít have to give up anything to get all those during this Section 6.

bigscrillywilli
01-23-2019, 01:00 PM
Okkkkkk. August bid next? I noticed quite a difference on the forecasts from June to August on some equipment.

Oh.....and iMax sucks! Lol

drinksonme
01-23-2019, 02:53 PM
Photon1....itís Ďa lotí not ďalot.Ē And apostrophes are fun too, if you know there proper usage.

Cue the ĎI donít careí or the Ďgrammar Nazií rants. Hopefully, you never have to write anything that needs to be taken seriously.

Name User
01-23-2019, 05:52 PM
Photon1....it’s ‘a lot’ not “alot.” And apostrophes are fun too, if you know there proper usage.

Cue the ‘I don’t care’ or the ‘grammar Nazi’ rants. Hopefully, you never have to write anything that needs to be taken seriously.

"their"

You brought it on yourself...just sayin'.

Oh and "smart quotes" by Apple are stupid.

AAfng
01-23-2019, 06:22 PM
"their"

You brought it on yourself...just sayin'.

Oh and "smart quotes" by Apple are stupid.

Classic! Ha

Arado 234
01-24-2019, 03:13 AM
Oh and "smart quotes" by Apple are stupid.

No. Apple never crashes. Apple never breaks. Since we down the hate road, can we bash Apple a bit more?

Btw the Max (without the i) sucks!

(Waiting the AA73 to b-slap me...)

Name User
01-24-2019, 06:09 PM
No. Apple never crashes. Apple never breaks. Since we down the hate road, can we bash Apple a bit more?

Btw the Max (without the i) sucks!

(Waiting the AA73 to b-slap me...)

I have an iPhone and iPad, so does my wife, hands down best devices on a value and security metric.

But the smart quote function is stupid and should've never been implemented. At least you can turn it off.

aa73
01-24-2019, 06:53 PM
No. Apple never crashes. Apple never breaks. Since we down the hate road, can we bash Apple a bit more?

Btw the Max (without the i) sucks!

(Waiting the AA73 to b-slap me...)

No need to.... your airplane already does it to you every flight during the flare :D

drinksonme
01-25-2019, 12:15 PM
"their"

You brought it on yourself...just sayin'.

Oh and "smart quotes" by Apple are stupid.

You got me.

Reverend
02-08-2019, 04:56 AM
Okkkkkk. August bid next? I noticed quite a difference on the forecasts from June to August on some equipment.

Bigscrillywilli, what kind of differences have u noticed?

Also, please explain to a fng the timeline to move between domiciles staying in the same airframe seniority permitting... (you bid in month X & and expect to move in month Y)

Thanks

bigscrillywilli
02-12-2019, 06:50 PM
Sorry I really couldnít tell you on how long it takes to switch bases, but I wouldnít think too long as long as youíre not looking for Dallas or Charlotte.

Maybe Iím wrong but I noticed some increased numbers from the June forecast to August on this last bid-run. Will that spur an August bid instead of September, thatís my question?



Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.1