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View Full Version : Full retrain or warm up?


hercengmech
12-17-2018, 05:20 PM
Does anyone know how long you are out of the seat before you go through extended retrain? Iíve looked in two different places in the contract and have found nothing. Iím on a military deployment that will stretch between 4-6 contractual months away from AA. Iím worried that when I go back, Iím due an R9 and will go straight to it after a warm up ride. Still on probation so Iím not wild about failing an R9!


Covfefe
12-17-2018, 05:31 PM
Does anyone know how long you are out of the seat before you go through extended retrain? Iíve looked in two different places in the contract and have found nothing. Iím on a military deployment that will stretch between 4-6 contractual months away from AA. Iím worried that when I go back, Iím due an R9 and will go straight to it after a warm up ride. Still on probation so Iím not wild about failing an R9!

I went straight into an R9 after 4 months military. I do not recommend it.

hercengmech
12-17-2018, 05:44 PM
Yeah thatís what I want to avoid.


sherpster
12-17-2018, 06:22 PM
I'm interested as well

Covfefe
12-18-2018, 03:10 AM
Iím pretty sure itís around 6 months or so before you need a requal. I was gone for 2 years and did a ďlongĒ requal, and that was only 2 ground days, 2 sims and a check. Not nearly enough. Give training a call and ask. Always argue for the longest possible course you can get.

Unless you didnít consolidate, you wonít get the full course unless you are gone for several years.

Rawhide16
12-18-2018, 03:53 AM
I was out on mil leave just short of 7 months immediately following OE and came back to a short requal. It consisted of an R9 plus an additional IPT with an instructor and that was it. I was quite nervous about it especially being on probation but it was a non-event.

EMBFlyer
12-18-2018, 04:08 AM
Unless you didnít consolidate, you wonít get the full course unless you are gone for several years.

Even if you don't consolidate, it's an R9 plus one extra day.

meyers9163
12-18-2018, 04:32 AM
Out of curiosity only.... Are these forced assignments (deployments) or by choice? Never understood not flying the airplane for a few months and getting that comfort level up if you have a choice. I get it reserve sucks but itís part of the deal. No way AA will give you more sim then you need. Weíve had this for type of quick course for years without issue. Just like those who are on sick leave for 5 months and come back. It works just fine and youíll be alright. Even if on probation.

But seriously
12-18-2018, 06:24 AM
Out of curiosity only.... Are these forced assignments (deployments) or by choice? Never understood not flying the airplane for a few months and getting that comfort level up if you have a choice. I get it reserve sucks but itís part of the deal. No way AA will give you more sim then you need. Weíve had this for type of quick course for years without issue. Just like those who are on sick leave for 5 months and come back. It works just fine and youíll be alright. Even if on probation.

Donít answer the first part of this question. If youíre on orders, youíre on orders. End of story.

Covfefe
12-18-2018, 06:48 AM
No way AA will give you more sim then you need.

Ive seen it happen. Not saying theyíd give you the FULL course if you donít need it, but I have seen guys get the long vs the short requal because they asked and there was a need.

meyers9163
12-18-2018, 06:54 AM
Haha arenít you an envoy pilot?

meyers9163
12-18-2018, 06:59 AM
Donít answer the first part of this question. If youíre on orders, youíre on orders. End of story.

Arenít you an Envoy pilot?

Actually right now we have nothing JCBA for military guys who come back from mandatory orders to get training. They could finish OE tomorrow and ship off and yes most likely AA would work with them but itís not a long term mandatory course or more then what a 20 year 6 month Medical pilots coming back would get. However I think some pilots on property would have no issues at all supporting getting them hard language that would maybe work something into it that would stipulate a need for more optional training if the pilots feels theyíre uncomfortable etc.

However if you are dodging RSV and you could stay on and sit RSV and get experience but you choose to do something to avoid that itís a whole other approach many I donít think would support. Call me crazy but those are two veg different situations.

dynap09
12-18-2018, 07:42 AM
Don’t answer the first part of this question. If you’re on orders, you’re on orders. End of story.

These guys are basically scum (playing the game of dodging reserve). I'm hoping these guard card reserve dodgers eventually get called out.

You don't think folks can figure out what these guys are pulling? Same thing with the endless "service animals". No one will say anything, but when military folks make a big deal about dropping the guard card to dodge days / etc they don't like, skip reserve... Please stop with the pity party here.

The reality - these guys may poison things for folks with actual military commitments over time.

Similar thing with the endless service animals. While we can't ask about them, some day folks are going to get tired of the service animal scams and dial that back too.

And yes, I get it, "end of story" if your on orders and "end of story" if you have a service animal.

And thanks to everyone who actually served...

sherpster
12-18-2018, 10:23 AM
Wow. I cant believe you are comparing reservists to people with emotional support peacocks/horses/snakes. I am retired off Active Duty so dropping mil days doesn't apply to my situation but remember: SOMEONE HAS TO BE IN THE GUARD/RESERVES AND IF NOT THEM THEN WHO??

I did 7 years, pre-airline, as a part time guardsman and it was horrible trying to juggle two jobs. I salute the guys who do it, maybe you should rethink your comments

hercengmech
12-18-2018, 12:42 PM
Just to answer the previous question before the thread gets out of hand, this was an involuntary deployment overseas. In fact, I had a line when I left and worked until a couple hours before my mil orders started. Some guys do take advantage of the mil orders but I can say that most do not. Iím just nervous because I only have a few hundred hours in the plane and this will be the first time going to training with the new non normal procedures for emergencies.

BackintheLPA
12-18-2018, 02:20 PM
I just returned from a 13 month mil leave. I was unable to consolidate before I left and ended up with a long requal in the same equipment. I got a 4 day Basic Indoc refresher, 5 days of GT/IPTs one on one with a Sim P, and 4 days one on one in the sim with an R9 at the end. Overall, very happy with the training I got and the instructors were great. I will also receive 25hrs of OE.

hercengmech
12-18-2018, 03:51 PM
Thatís good news. Sounds like they treated you pretty well. Did you talk to training about your situation or did they schedule you for all that from the get go?

Kebert Xela
12-18-2018, 04:11 PM
I just returned from a 13 month mil leave. I was unable to consolidate before I left and ended up with a long requal in the same equipment. I got a 4 day Basic Indoc refresher, 5 days of GT/IPTs one on one with a Sim P, and 4 days one on one in the sim with an R9 at the end. Overall, very happy with the training I got and the instructors were great. I will also receive 25hrs of OE.


from the other side of the coin...

Interview - told them about my upcoming deployment.
Training - told them about my deployment (including my CP at the time who was very supportive)
OE - told them about my deployment
Deployed without consolidating
Have to answer questions of why I dropped Mil right after OE
Returned ASAP after being gone 5 months
Told I would be given a takeoff/approach/landing sim only. After REPEATADLY asking for more training (aka calling training and standards approx. 10 times with no answer nor a call back from messages left. Moved bases and new CP told me to suck it up)
Go to currency sim and CKA actually listened - standards figured out I needed short course due to no consolidation
2 days ground then R9
Remedial
Pass R9 ask for more training - "You'll be fine"
Fly international checkout and CKA recommends that I get a 2 day with another CKA to get experience and he can't believe that I am not going through another OE.... I couldn't agree more

Total time in plane - 28 hours, probably have spent close to that time on the phone leaving messages to standards and training (no one answers) asking for clarification of the process or how uncomfortable I am without a few more hours in the box.

Yep, I'm complaining but I will leave you with this. Email so that you have a trail and proof if you feel you aren't ready. Phone calls and visiting their desks while at GSW proved worthless, if it weren't for the actual proactiveness of my CKA I don't know what would have truly happened.

The FDX interview I bypassed during training is now raising questions I thought I wouldn't have to answer.

Not one of my phone calls ever returned. That's how I was treated. Good luck, every person I talked to had "never seen this before". That's enough of a soapbox for now, you can PM me if you have any further questions.

Diatribe of a military probationary pilot. So glad I got to take "advantage" of my military leave in the sandbox during the summer.

hercengmech
12-18-2018, 04:28 PM
Man thatís a shame. Sounds like it couldíve been avoided. Iíll start early and see if I can get a little warm up time. This is one of the reasons Iím retiring in July. Itís too much @sspain trying to juggle Mil and AA.

cocktimusprime
12-18-2018, 05:10 PM
Itís definitely a scam. Guys get hired at AA fully knowing they have ZERO intention of actually doing any work for the airline until they get their military retirement. I know guys who havenít touched airline property in years. They get whatever time off they want while keeping that nice seniority number.

Of course, we all couldíve joined the military if we wanted to, so donít give me this garbage about their sacrifices. Every single pilot at AA sacrificed in their own way to achieve this job. But not everyone commits to the job they applied for . . .

hercengmech
12-18-2018, 05:21 PM
^^^^
I bet you are loads of fun to fly with.
Thread wasnít supposed to be about mil leave. It was a legit question about getting spun up after an absence.

UPTme
12-18-2018, 05:43 PM
+10 troll points

BackintheLPA
12-18-2018, 06:19 PM
I never actually talked to anyone. Emailed SK and the base coordinator. Checked my email and TMS for updates, then booked my A1 once something popped up in TMS.

Checkout AA pilots>training & quals>ground training guide or flight training guide to see the training footprint for the different requals.

Route66
12-19-2018, 03:43 AM
Itís definitely a scam. Guys get hired at AA fully knowing they have ZERO intention of actually doing any work for the airline until they get their military retirement. I know guys who havenít touched airline property in years. They get whatever time off they want while keeping that nice seniority number.

Of course, we all couldíve joined the military if we wanted to, so donít give me this garbage about their sacrifices. Every single pilot at AA sacrificed in their own way to achieve this job. But not everyone commits to the job they applied for . . .

Just wondering.....where is the union in all of this? (I'm sure I have the answer.)

sherpster
12-19-2018, 03:59 AM
Is there an answer to original ?

BackintheLPA
12-19-2018, 04:21 AM
I canít remember where I saw it...
Gone 12 months or less...short requal

12 to 24 months...medium requal

24 to 36 months...long requal

Greater than 36 months...day 1 indoc with a new hire class

Check the training footprint for each requal on AA pilots. If you are still unsure, email/call SK and she can find out for you.

Route66
12-19-2018, 07:33 AM
^^^^
I bet you are loads of fun to fly with.
Thread wasnít supposed to be about mil leave. It was a legit question about getting spun up after an absence.

If you're looking for answers here you've come to the wrong place. The union doesn't have the answers and neither does anyone here (that you can trust, anyway).

Having said that, the ONLY input you can trust are those military that work for AAL here that you can consult with on a personal basis....AKA mono e mono. Ask around word of mouth.

It is a "legit" question.

kme9418
12-20-2018, 11:24 AM
Of course, we all could’ve joined the military if we wanted to, so don’t give me this garbage about their sacrifices.

No. Not all could've if they wanted to. And timing is everything.

For the record, I don't defend those that abuse mil leave...bad apples in every group. Most guys are not. Most Guard and Reserve guys are just trying to maintain balance...that is keeping their squadron, their civilian employer, and their family all equally disappointed in them.

OVBIII
12-20-2018, 12:30 PM
No. Not all could've if they wanted to. And timing is everything.

For the record, I don't defend those that abuse mil leave...bad apples in every group. Most guys are not. Most Guard and Reserve guys are just trying to maintain balance...that is keeping their squadron, their civilian employer, and their family all equally disappointed in them.

That last sentence is definitely the case. It really is a tough balance.

Cheddar
12-22-2018, 11:53 AM
Most Guard and Reserve guys are just trying to maintain balance...that is keeping their squadron, their civilian employer, and their family all equally disappointed in them.



Best statement about the situation Iíve seen yet!

Apologies in advance for the long response:

My reserve unit has alert lines. We have local airline guys bid them over holidays. Scam? Absolutely not. The job needs to be done and thatís it. Good for them for trying to please two of their three masters.

I live in base, and commute a couple hours to the reserves. Alert has rarely been a Ďgood dealí to Ďscamí off an airline trip or reserve block. But some guys take their family up and do whatever. Again, the mission is getting done, and unfortunately just like every other ARC unit, we are finding ourselves shorthanded and need folks to come up to the sq and fly, go on trips, pull alert, train, and deploy.

For those that havenít done it, and complain, the adage applies - walk a mile in our shoes. This isnít the Ďlost decadeí where guys at the bottom of the list were taking tons of military because the O4+ pay was better than sitting reserve in LGA/MIA and no one could hold a line for years. The second year pay now meets or exceeds the military Ďman dayí and most of us living in base would much rather make real money at an easy job where thereís no OPRs to write or DTS vouchers to redo for the 20th time. Guys that live at their squadron do a majority of the work the rest of us donít want to do.

As for me, I drop UTAs, and probably 1-2 other days a month but Iím also the [email protected] that got conned into a very busy ancillary job that takes a lot of time - only in bits and pieces. I try to devote 2-3 days a month to accomplish all my crap, but sometimes I need to take a mil day to get stuff done - especially if I have deadlines for various projects. Trust me, Iím not scamming anyone but my family.

And then thereís the family - they SHOULD be the priority - unfortunately they get lost sometimes between the other two and then everyone suffers.

Iím not asking for sympathy, I did it all to myself and Iím retiring soon - but for those that accuse others of scamming - get over it.

AA has been generally very good about Mil, and Iíve only had to have one discussion with the flight office about an IOC FO giving me the third degree about extending my Mil Lv on a Sunday afternoon after DOTC/RAS (I had to stay until Monday and had to drop an $1100 SFO turn - I got the raw end trust me). I was told to Ďreport to the Flight Office.í
I reported with a phone call at my leisure and had the USERRA verbiage in front of me - I didnít need it as the CP apologized profusely and would Ďtalkí to the IOC FO on duty. The Chiefs are on our side, and I donít know anyone at my squadron that wants to make their lives more difficult.

The way deployments are now and the ever increasing ops tempo - I encourage guys to take Mil if it means staying home a day and being with their families. It may save a marriage, a childís sanity, or a life.


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Cheddar
12-22-2018, 12:02 PM
Sorry for the above thread hijack. As for training, it runs the gamut around here. Ask for what you want, if you arenít satisfied talk to the union.

Most of the time training is so backed up that theyíve got so many other fires you can get lost. Itís happened to the best of us!


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