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HuskerAv8tor
12-18-2018, 08:35 AM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/skywest-inc-enters-agreement-sell-130100214.html?fbclid=IwAR2yYFIg4EyNNPOiukJryPmARm WJwhH5N1k0NC0jl0gct1WITzAZkqnsBoI


Bluewaffle
12-18-2018, 09:02 AM
Re think the threat title perhaps

MasterOfPuppets
12-18-2018, 09:04 AM
Interesting. Anyone know how many of the 175s United owns? I know they own the entire Mesa fleet and some if not all of the 175s at RAH. Im not sure if they own any of the SkyWest 175s.

I ask because I can see all the United assets being transferred to ExpressJet now. We can start controlling our 70 seat regionals a little better and maybe get a better product.

I hope the end game is to absorb this LLC and bring the 70 seat flying in house. I can see United ordering another 20 of the 175s configured to 70 seats (SC) and give them to Xjet. This would park all CRJ 700s at Mesa and Go jet. The only ones left would be with SkyWest to fly to ASE.

Anyways I think this is a positive for United and we will see if it is a positive or a negative for United pilots......can't wait to see the New contract.


HuskerAv8tor
12-18-2018, 09:05 AM
Re think the threat title perhaps
United a minority partner in ManaAir LLC. I believe UAL is in the end pulling all the strings.

Voski
12-18-2018, 09:08 AM
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/skywest-to-sell-expressjet-to-united-joint-venture-454518/

Squallrider
12-18-2018, 09:16 AM
Interesting. Anyone know how many of the 175s United owns? I know they own the entire Mesa fleet and some if not all of the 175s at RAH. Im not sure if they own any of the SkyWest 175s.

I ask because I can see all the United assets being transferred to ExpressJet now. We can start controlling our 70 seat regionals a little better and maybe get a better product.

I hope the end game is to absorb this LLC and bring the 70 seat flying in house. I can see United ordering another 20 of the 175s configured to 70 seats (SC) and give them to Xjet. This would park all CRJ 700s at Mesa and Go jet. The only ones left would be with SkyWest to fly to ASE.

Anyways I think this is a positive for United and we will see if it is a positive or a negative for United pilots......can't wait to see the New contract.

They don’t own any of the SkyWest 175s

Sniper66
12-18-2018, 09:31 AM
They don’t own any of the SkyWest 175s



48 at Mesa and 20 at Republic I think.
All back as leases coming to end and watch for the bigger Ejets order coming .
Lufthansa style all one seniority when the TA comes

76 seaters to 364 seaters all flown by United seniority pilots
There you have your 15000 pilot seniority list

Good for everyone I would say

Bluewaffle
12-18-2018, 09:38 AM
48 at Mesa and 20 at Republic I think.
All back as leases coming to end and watch for the bigger Ejets order coming .
Lufthansa style all one seniority when the TA comes

76 seaters to 364 seaters all flown by United seniority pilots
There you have your 15000 pilot seniority list

Good for everyone I would say

Lots of bold assumptions with this one ☝️

fadec
12-18-2018, 09:49 AM
So if you're at XJT, do you still do the United interview when they call?

RoyerYetlink
12-18-2018, 10:03 AM
So if you're at XJT, do you still do the United interview when they call?

I would say yes. Get out of the regionals as fast as you can. Why wouldn’t you interview?

MasterOfPuppets
12-18-2018, 10:56 AM
So if you're at XJT, do you still do the United interview when they call?

Absolutely. If we absorb the pilots at Xjet it will be a full blown staple and no one could argue otherwise. So if you get hired by UA now you will be senior to all the current Xjet pilots.

trip
12-18-2018, 11:16 AM
Have no fear, the shell corporation will keep the pilots separate, no claim to one list that way (Comair). This will be home to the zero-hero build your hours with a United owned airline. The whipsaw will live on.

Itsajob
12-18-2018, 11:21 AM
How would any of this change how United hires? XJT is getting some 175’s, but why would that change the current CPP? I can see where this is good for the near term future of XJT, but it in no way means that it will lead to a flow agreement or any other increased chance of XJT pilots gaining employment with United Airlines. United wants to pick and choose who they hire. If anyone can actually figure out exactly what they are looking for, they could get rich selling interview preparation classes. The jury is out on that one.

John Carr
12-18-2018, 12:03 PM
So if you're at XJT, do you still do the United interview when they call?

Nope, it just means you'll get sent the HPI.

Pass that, THEN you'll get a F2F.

4V14T0R
12-18-2018, 01:27 PM
48 at Mesa and 20 at Republic I think.
All back as leases coming to end and watch for the bigger Ejets order coming .
Lufthansa style all one seniority when the TA comes

76 seaters to 364 seaters all flown by United seniority pilots
There you have your 15000 pilot seniority list

Good for everyone I would say



I’m pretty sure it’s only 12 hulls at YX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Squallrider
12-18-2018, 02:49 PM
I saw a quote somewhere that it won’t affect flow / cpp , source wasn’t specified so it’s as legit as anything on the internet ha

full of luv
12-18-2018, 06:22 PM
Absolutely. If we absorb the pilots at Xjet it will be a full blown staple and no one could argue otherwise. So if you get hired by UA now you will be senior to all the current Xjet pilots.

I'd say the #1 argument for Mgmt not to absorb any pilots, staple or not, is that they lose the benefit of restarting their longevity. Even with a "flow" UAL gets to restart the longevity and all that entails when they join the mainline list. Same as everywhere else.

ShyGuy
12-18-2018, 06:51 PM
DOH is the gold standard! :D

rickair7777
12-18-2018, 07:09 PM
Absolutely. If we absorb the pilots at Xjet it will be a full blown staple and no one could argue otherwise. So if you get hired by UA now you will be senior to all the current Xjet pilots.

Actually... you can't do a staple anymore, especially with ALPA/ALPA. There would have to be a fair and equitable integration.

You can sort of make the case that a staple is sort of fair but the more senior XJT people (the majority of them) will insist on something for their longevity. Established precedent will give them something.

Only way around that would be do like SWA did with tranny... make them an offer they can't refuse, but the company would have to be integral to that (UA-ALPA can't unilaterally shut down the XJT certificate).

Itsajob
12-18-2018, 07:20 PM
Absolutely. If we absorb the pilots at Xjet it will be a full blown staple and no one could argue otherwise. So if you get hired by UA now you will be senior to all the current Xjet pilots.

Only way around that would be do like SWA did with tranny... make them an offer they can't refuse, but the company would have to be integral to that (UA-ALPA can't unilaterally shut down the XJT certificate).


There is no need for the United to absorb anyone. They can simply hire the pilots that they like in the interview process and move on. I don’t see 70 seat jets at mainline any time soon, but if we did the pilots who currently fly those planes don’t have to come with them. United already owns the metal. It isn’t an airline acquisition that would trigger some sort of pilots come too deal. All they have to do is bring the planes to mainline when the leases to the regionals expire and hire from all available sources accordingly. Not wishing a sharp stick in anyone’s eye, just looking at this from a company or legal point of view.

Bluewaffle
12-18-2018, 07:29 PM
Actually... you can't do a staple anymore, especially with ALPA/ALPA. There would have to be a fair and equitable integration.

You can sort of make the case that a staple is sort of fair but the more senior XJT people (the majority of them) will insist on something for their longevity. Established precedent will give them something.

Only way around that would be do like SWA did with tranny... make them an offer they can't refuse, but the company would have to be integral to that (UA-ALPA can't unilaterally shut down the XJT certificate).

ALPA merger policy wouldn’t apply with a regional takeover

Nevjets
12-18-2018, 08:31 PM
ALPA merger policy wouldn’t apply with a regional takeover



Why not? Both pilot groups are ALPA. It’s been a while but I don’t remember reading anything in the ALPA merger policy saying it wouldn’t apply in this type of situation. The career expectations part of the policy would apply overwhelmingly favorably to mainline pilots. So much so that a straight staple may be seen as fair and equitably by a panel of arbitrators.

CLRtoPush
12-18-2018, 10:11 PM
.......................

JuniorFO
12-19-2018, 03:14 AM
I bet a B scale is coming

amcnd
12-19-2018, 04:37 AM
I love how XJT thinks UA bought them...... UA will pull the strings.( I.e want there E145’s as cheap as there other joint ventures”) but good bet is the Commute Air CEO is going to be there yes man..

JuniorFO
12-19-2018, 05:15 AM
I love how XJT thinks UA bought them...... UA will pull the strings.( I.e want there E145’s as cheap as there other joint ventures”) but good bet is the Commute Air CEO is going to be there yes man..

They own more of XJT than SkyWest.

amcnd
12-19-2018, 05:29 AM
They own more of XJT than SkyWest.

Yes they do.. (or will) but not a Majority. But its cute to play like you are UA pilots. They will love that..

Meen while, OO still gouges you on I.T. Services...

5. Will ExpressJet people become United employees?
No, they will remain employed by ExpressJet and owned by a third party United joint venture.

6. How long will SkyWest, Inc. continue to support certain functions in IT, Accounting and Benefits?
A transition period is customary and may be between 6-18 months.

rickair7777
12-19-2018, 06:03 AM
ALPA merger policy wouldn’t apply with a regional takeover

Oh yes it would. There are no legal provisions (that I've heard of) which apply the traditional major airline pilot cultural superiority and entitlement to an SLI. In both federal law and ALPA policy an airline is an airline is an airline.

Now you could make a case that "fair and equitable" would be something that looks a lot like a staple, since both career expectations and longevity are low on the regional side but some senior RJ guys would get a big windfall and the left seat of at least a NB.

That's why the senior lifers at COMAIR pushed so hard for seniority integration at DAL... it would have tripled their pay overnight.

In other words, what Nevjets just said.

Bluewaffle
12-19-2018, 06:23 AM
Oh yes it would. There are no legal provisions (that I've heard of) which apply the traditional major airline pilot cultural superiority and entitlement to an SLI. In both federal law and ALPA policy an airline is an airline is an airline.

Now you could make a case that "fair and equitable" would be something that looks a lot like a staple, since both career expectations and longevity are low on the regional side but some senior RJ guys would get a big windfall and the left seat of at least a NB.

That's why the senior lifers at COMAIR pushed so hard for seniority integration at DAL... it would have tripled their pay overnight.

In other words, what Nevjets just said.

“Some Senior RJ guys would get a big windfall”. There in lies the problem. How do you weigh longevity at a regional? No RJ lifer deserves to be in front of a mainline new hire. Period. An indefinite fence perhaps?

Botched
12-19-2018, 07:00 AM
“Some Senior RJ guys would get a big windfall”. There in lies the problem. How do you weigh longevity at a regional? No RJ lifer deserves to be in front of a mainline new hire. Period. An indefinite fence perhaps?

Why are people even talking about a merger? Dream on kids.

flynd94
12-19-2018, 07:18 AM
Yes they do.. (or will) but not a Majority. But its cute to play like you are UA pilots. They will love that..

Meen while, OO still gouges you on I.T. Services...

5. Will ExpressJet people become United employees?
No, they will remain employed by ExpressJet and owned by a third party United joint venture.

6. How long will SkyWest, Inc. continue to support certain functions in IT, Accounting and Benefits?
A transition period is customary and may be between 6-18 months.

Wash, rinse, repeat. Their services suck. I can’t imagine it getting any worse then currently. Only after threatening to get a lawyer did the “awesome” HR dept finally correct my issues

da42pilot
12-19-2018, 07:20 AM
Yes they do.. (or will) but not a Majority. But its cute to play like you are UA pilots. They will love that..

Meen while, OO still gouges you on I.T. Services...

5. Will ExpressJet people become United employees?
No, they will remain employed by ExpressJet and owned by a third party United joint venture.

6. How long will SkyWest, Inc. continue to support certain functions in IT, Accounting and Benefits?
A transition period is customary and may be between 6-18 months.

Don’t be ridiculous. Nobody is acting like they’re United pilots at XJT.

gojo
12-19-2018, 08:29 AM
Don’t be ridiculous. Nobody is acting like they’re United pilots at XJT.

That’s just Skywest pilots pouting. Oh no, someone is getting new planes, and it isn’t us.... They’ve been brainwashed into believing that Express Jet has been a financial drain on the Mighty Skywest, and don’t understand that Skywest is responsible for that. Gotta be because Express Jet is union, right?

rickair7777
12-19-2018, 09:03 AM
“Some Senior RJ guys would get a big windfall”. There in lies the problem. How do you weigh longevity at a regional? No RJ lifer deserves to be in front of a mainline new hire. Period. An indefinite fence perhaps?

The regional group would not agree to indefinite fences. The inevitable arbitration would nor grant indefinite fences.

This is why XJT (or any other regional) will probably not be absorbed into UA (or any other major).

The hate and discontent would be epic, would make the Airways/Cactus SLI look like a lovefest.

I said "probably" because if the pilot shortage got bad enough somebody might go there.

Nevjets
12-19-2018, 09:05 AM
I love how XJT thinks UA bought them...... UA will pull the strings.( I.e want there E145’s as cheap as there other joint ventures”) but good bet is the Commute Air CEO is going to be there yes man..



Why do you love that? You have some kind of animosity towards them? Technically, United did buy xjt, a minority part. And if United is pulling the strings, I think anyone is better than your CC at this point.

Nevjets
12-19-2018, 09:07 AM
Yes they do.. (or will) but not a Majority. But its cute to play like you are UA pilots. They will love that..



Meen while, OO still gouges you on I.T. Services...



5. Will ExpressJet people become United employees?

No, they will remain employed by ExpressJet and owned by a third party United joint venture.



6. How long will SkyWest, Inc. continue to support certain functions in IT, Accounting and Benefits?

A transition period is customary and may be between 6-18 months.


That’s true on the IT gouge, until the transaction is complete. Xjt will be United employees as much as they were Skywest employees. Which is to say, xjt employees are xjt employees while being partly owned by United instead of wholly owned by Skywest. That’s a good thing for xjt employees.

Nevjets
12-19-2018, 09:13 AM
“Some Senior RJ guys would get a big windfall”. There in lies the problem. How do you weigh longevity at a regional? No RJ lifer deserves to be in front of a mainline new hire. Period. An indefinite fence perhaps?


You couldn’t have a fence that lasts any longer than when the next new hire is hired. Otherwise that new hire would be able to progress past the career expectations of the RJ lifer and all pilots behind him.

This is all academic, but just because you have two airlines with disparate career expectations does not mean that ALPA merger policy wouldn’t apply. It just means that arbitrators would have to take all those things into consideration when constructing and SLI. And that could mean a straight staple and done.

SlamClicker
12-19-2018, 09:17 AM
I hope the end game is to absorb this LLC and bring the 70 seat flying in house.

Never happen -
Scope clause
Union prohibits majority ownership and most important why would any airline want all of suddenly double their labor cost overnight for 0 benefit in return.

flightlevels
12-19-2018, 11:06 AM
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/skywest-inc-enters-agreement-sell-130100214.html?fbclid=IwAR2yYFIg4EyNNPOiukJryPmARm WJwhH5N1k0NC0jl0gct1WITzAZkqnsBoI

Not to UAL, to MalaAIr

Melit
12-19-2018, 02:47 PM
They own more of XJT than SkyWest.

You my friend are a genius

gojo
12-19-2018, 02:53 PM
You my friend are a genius

By comparison, yes

Cefiro
12-19-2018, 03:37 PM
United also owns part of Commutair and Republic. Good for Xjet to get new life though.

Melit
12-19-2018, 03:42 PM
United also owns part of Commutair and Republic. Good for Xjet to get new life though.

And AA owns part of Mesa

JuniorFO
12-19-2018, 04:05 PM
The way I see it going, the regionals that will survive are the ones that have a vested interest by mainline carriers.

Melit
12-19-2018, 04:20 PM
The way I see it going, the regionals that will survive are the ones that have a vested interest by mainline carriers.

You haven’t been in this game long have you? Have you heard of Comair? Asa?

Tpinks
12-19-2018, 04:35 PM
Interesting. Anyone know how many of the 175s United owns? I know they own the entire Mesa fleet and some if not all of the 175s at RAH. Im not sure if they own any of the SkyWest 175s.

I ask because I can see all the United assets being transferred to ExpressJet now. We can start controlling our 70 seat regionals a little better and maybe get a better product.

Anyways I think this is a positive for United and we will see if it is a positive or a negative for United pilots......can't wait to see the New contract.

Lol! Get a better product? Stop awarding flying to carriers that can't support it and having 9 carriers all flying under United Express and whipsawing the flying. Take a play out of Delta's playbook and reward the flying to the best carriers, not the cheapest.

At Republic, we are posting amazing numbers (October we were scheduled for 28,482 flights and only canceled 2 the entire month), but we are also an expensive company. We are also already partly owned by United. We could staff these 25 aircraft right this moment with the delivery schedule starting in April, yet we did not get the contract. We tried to acquire TSH and United was the one that ended that. I'm convinced United is happy with being in second place.

I’m pretty sure it’s only 12 hulls at YX.
Correct, N740YX-752YX. All 12 aircraft along with the last 12 aircraft Mesa ultimately received were a part of a larger 175 order Republic placed for United prior to the Bankruptcy. All 24 aircraft, prior to production, were transferred to United during our bankruptcy. Republic said they could only staff 12, so we took the first 12.

And AA owns part of Mesa And Republic. And Delta owns a part of us as well. So what's your point?

Melit
12-19-2018, 05:14 PM
Lol! Get a better product? Stop awarding flying to carriers that can't support it and having 9 carriers all flying under United Express and whipsawing the flying. Take a play out of Delta's playbook and reward the flying to the best carriers, not the cheapest.

At Republic, we are posting amazing numbers (October we were scheduled for 28,482 flights and only canceled 2 the entire month), but we are also an expensive company. We are also already partly owned by United. We could staff these 25 aircraft right this moment with the delivery schedule starting in April, yet we did not get the contract. We tried to acquire TSH and United was the one that ended that. I'm convinced United is happy with being in second place.

Correct, N740YX-752YX. All 12 aircraft along with the last 12 aircraft Mesa ultimately received were a part of a larger 175 order Republic placed for United prior to the Bankruptcy. All 24 aircraft, prior to production, were transferred to United during our bankruptcy. Republic said they could only staff 12, so we took the first 12.

And Republic. And Delta owns a part of us as well. So what's your point?
Read JuniorFO comment and you will see my point

Itsajob
12-19-2018, 06:05 PM
Why are people even talking about a merger? Dream on kids.

Exactly. United can still move flying around to the lowest bidder, even with companies that it has an interest in. The biggest thing that changed is that XJT got 25 planes. There will never be, nor need to be a merger. UAL already owns the planes. If they ever wanted them at mainline they would simply bring them over as the current leases expire and hire off of the street and through the various CPP programs to staff them. Being that the company has repeatedly said that mainline cost are too high to operate small jets, they most likely will never be flown by mainline pilots. Not much changed. Express jet will just be getting a different type of plane.

amcnd
12-20-2018, 05:02 AM
All it will take is 1-2 years XJT will try to negotiate a new contract with ManaAir/Kair. Then they will se how cheap they are, and how long the process drags out. Then they will realize that they are no better off. Its a shell game just like UA wants it.. the regionals that can staff and attract pilots will thrive. Ones that can’t keep the turn over in a + each month will struggle..

guppie
01-26-2019, 05:55 AM
I’m hoping this means first dibs on the JS for United Pilots on XJT.

Riverside
01-26-2019, 03:56 PM
I’m hoping this means first dibs on the JS for United Pilots on XJT.

Lol keep dreaming.

threeighteen
01-26-2019, 04:17 PM
I’m hoping this means first dibs on the JS for United Pilots on XJT.

Nope, XJT Pilots will have first dibs. Then it will likely go the same as Commutair’s jumpseat policy.

guppie
01-26-2019, 06:05 PM
Nope, XJT Pilots will have first dibs. Then it will likely go the same as Commutair’s jumpseat policy.

What is Commutair’s policy?

Check Complete
01-27-2019, 05:19 AM
I’m hoping this means first dibs on the JS for United Pilots on XJT.

How many times are UA pilots going to try this before it's realized it's a selfish land grab and fails?

Just a special stupid........

guppie
01-27-2019, 07:37 AM
How many times are UA pilots going to try this before it's realized it's a selfish land grab and fails?

Just a special stupid........

We’ll see.... I am pretty stupid. I stayed at a regional for 4 full years after college!! That was 4 years too long. 😉

Avrogod
01-27-2019, 09:20 AM
Not sure how it works at Commutair or ExpressJet but when DL bought 9E both entities changed their jumpseat policy to where DL pilots go in front of all non 9E pilots on 9E aircraft, but DL also reciprocates that back and 9E goes in front of all non DL on DL aircraft.

gojo
01-27-2019, 09:24 AM
Not sure how it works at Commutair or ExpressJet but when DL bought 9E both entities changed their jumpseat policy to where DL pilots go in front of all non 9E pilots on 9E aircraft, but DL also reciprocates that back and 9E goes in front of all non DL on DL aircraft.

Not entirely factual. DL and 9E are both S3 priority on 9E aircraft. Therefore it’s by date of hire

rickair7777
01-27-2019, 09:46 AM
How many times are UA pilots going to try this before it's realized it's a selfish land grab and fails?

Just a special stupid........

Mainline should own the seats in the back, that's what they're paying for. Regionals should own their own JS.

gojo
01-27-2019, 10:01 AM
Mainline should own the seats in the back, that's what they're paying for. Regionals should own their own JS.

Well maybe, but which regional boards behind mainline on their operated metal?

Avrogod
01-27-2019, 10:43 AM
Not entirely factual. DL and 9E are both S3 priority on 9E aircraft. Therefore it’s by date of hire

You're talking about nonreving...this discussion was about jumpseat policy.

gojo
01-27-2019, 11:33 AM
You're talking about nonreving...this discussion was about jumpseat policy.

Ah yes, I skipped over the word “non.” That little word changes everything. You are correct sir



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