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View Full Version : Ytd atlas !!!


boeingdvr
12-22-2018, 06:55 AM
4 year 767 FO

Looks like I'll end the year at $72,500 large. No OT, and most months at 62 hours (vacation, training, sick, ).

Did I mention we are hiring ???


Riverside
12-22-2018, 07:44 AM
4 year 767 FO

Looks like I'll end the year at $72,500 large. No OT, and most months at 62 hours (vacation, training, sick, ).

Did I mention we are hiring ???

Congratulations.

thesandbox
12-22-2018, 08:50 AM
6 year CA 767 looking at about $117k for the year with only about 5k of that above guarantee.... :mad:


Cottonmouth
12-22-2018, 08:51 AM
No retirement, terrible benefits, below average wages, toxic work environment, hostile management, need I say more.

The management group has sued their pilots twice in one year, how many companies sue their employees?

The management team wants to amalgamate the Southern and Atlas contracts, therefore there will be no say so or vote on a new contract, the company will dictate to the Atlas Southern pilot group their futures and destiny, the pilots will have no say so in the matter.

Very sad, during the best of times in the industry, the company does not share their profits with their employees.

There are better jobs out there.

No Land 3
12-22-2018, 09:45 AM
No retirement, terrible benefits, below average wages, toxic work environment, hostile management, need I say more.

The management group has sued their pilots twice in one year, how many companies sue their employees?

The management team wants to amalgamate the Southern and Atlas contracts, therefore there will be no say so or vote on a new contract, the company will dictate to the Atlas Southern pilot group their futures and destiny, the pilots will have no say so in the matter.

Very sad, during the best of times in the industry, the company does not share their profits with their employees.

There are better jobs out there.

2nd year FO at K4, maybe 10 days of OT for the year, gross 168.7k, I think I have one more check coming? Others have done MUCH better than I. We are hiring.

brownie
12-22-2018, 10:58 AM
2nd year FO at K4, maybe 10 days of OT for the year, gross 168.7k, I think I have one more check coming? Others have done MUCH better than I. We are hiring.

Unless ur hourly is 200$ an hour then U must be flying ur a... off

MoarAlpha
12-22-2018, 11:32 AM
Unless ur hourly is 200$ an hour then U must be flying ur a... off

Well 16 days a month averaging maybe 90+ hours, plus 10 additional days spread out over the year @1.5xpay, plus $1000/month perdiem.

90 hours @ $124.10 = $134028
50 hours OT @ $186.15 = $9307
$1000/mo perdiem which is pessimistic?

$155,300

The math is close and another $13k is possible depending on the 16 day trip credits particularly.

Pilotcontracts.org

brownie
12-22-2018, 12:09 PM
Well 16 days a month averaging maybe 90+ hours, plus 10 additional days spread out over the year @1.5xpay, plus $1000/month perdiem.

90 hours @ $124.10 = $134028
50 hours OT @ $186.15 = $9307
$1000/mo perdiem which is pessimistic?

$155,300

The math is close and another $13k is possible depending on the 16 day trip credits particularly.

Pilotcontracts.org

Well 90+ is one flying their a.. off so its doable

WhipWhitaker
12-22-2018, 12:51 PM
Well 16 days a month averaging maybe 90+ hours, plus 10 additional days spread out over the year @1.5xpay, plus $1000/month perdiem.

90 hours @ $124.10 = $134028
50 hours OT @ $186.15 = $9307
$1000/mo perdiem which is pessimistic?

$155,300

The math is close and another $13k is possible depending on the 16 day trip credits particularly.

Pilotcontracts.org

The math is not really that close. But Iíd be curious to see the actual breakdown.

WAMapproach
12-22-2018, 12:56 PM
Just finished first yr FO k4 at $120k, so I could see 168k 2nd yr very possible

t207
12-22-2018, 02:40 PM
you guys that count per diem as wages are crazy. it's not wages!

maxjet
12-22-2018, 02:53 PM
The math is not really that close. But Iíd be curious to see the actual breakdown.

Why? Are you coming over? If that is the reason then donít. The merry go round will stop in a couple of years and everybody will go back to 70 hour months with not a lot of OT. Right now we have a pilot who worked for it but is over 600k a few over 500k and a bigger group over 400. I would guess that the average Captain is well over 300 this year.

WhipWhitaker
12-22-2018, 02:58 PM
Why? Are you coming over? If that is the reason then donít. The merry go round will stop in a couple of years and everybody will go back to 70 hour months with not a lot of OT. Right now we have a pilot who worked for it but is over 600k a few over 500k and a bigger group over 400. I would guess that the average Captain is well over 300 this year.

Why am I curious? Because he tossed out a big number, and someone did the math @90hr/month + and came up 13k short even including per diem.

Forty5N
12-22-2018, 04:54 PM
I just crunched a few basic numbers.
As a 12 year captain who does NOT work days off, I grossed 286.6 this year, and that does not include perdiem. Nor does that include the 10,000 into my retirement. I also took January off for vacation. I won't even come close to breaking guarantee in December. I actually flew right at 700 hours for the year. That equates to about 409/hr. Y'all can crunch the numbers anyway you want, but thats what I made. It ain't Purple or Brown pay, but I don't need that to feel good about myself. This is the most I have ever made. I am completely debt free.
There are many that enjoy working more than I, but l work to enjoy life.I don't live to work.
Is this the best job going? No. But it's much better than many.

Happy New Year to everyone. Merry Christmas to All, and to all a good night.

Atrasaty
12-22-2018, 07:54 PM
I just crunched a few basic numbers.
As a 12 year captain who does NOT work days off, I grossed 286.6 this year, and that does not include perdiem. Nor does that include the 10,000 into my retirement. I also took January off for vacation. I won't even come close to breaking guarantee in December. I actually flew right at 700 hours for the year. That equates to about 409/hr. Y'all can crunch the numbers anyway you want, but thats what I made. It ain't Purple or Brown pay, but I don't need that to feel good about myself. This is the most I have ever made. I am completely debt free.
There are many that enjoy working more than I, but l work to enjoy life.I don't live to work.
Is this the best job going? No. But it's much better than many.

Happy New Year to everyone. Merry Christmas to All, and to all a good night.

For clarification these numbers must be Kalitta, not Atlas as in the thread title.

MoarAlpha
12-22-2018, 07:57 PM
you guys that count per diem as wages are crazy. it's not wages!

I would agree, that needs to be removed unless you take a giant Yeti cooler on your trips.:D

Forty5N
12-22-2018, 08:48 PM
"For clarification these numbers must be Kalitta, not Atlas as in the thread title."

Sorry, I forgot what thread i was on.....

However, There were some comments about some Kalitta stuff.



Merry Christmas to all.

avalanche
12-22-2018, 09:46 PM
Why? Are you coming over? If that is the reason then donít. The merry go round will stop in a couple of years and everybody will go back to 70 hour months with not a lot of OT. Right now we have a pilot who worked for it but is over 600k a few over 500k and a bigger group over 400. I would guess that the average Captain is well over 300 this year.

The pay is where it should be. These salary numbers are the same as FedEx and UPS thus making Kalitta a great alternative career.

maxjet
12-22-2018, 10:01 PM
Why am I curious? Because he tossed out a big number, and someone did the math @90hr/month + and came up 13k short even including per diem.

Believe it or donít believe it. He is right and you are wrong. Are you the IRS? BTW that is a very little number at K4 this year. This year and I think next (hopefully) year are anomalyís. Within 3 or 4 years we will be looking at Atlas as the highest paying. Then someone else.

Twin Wasp
12-23-2018, 12:49 PM
Just to compare the numbers from the Connie pilot, I'm a 10 year 747 Captain, will be right at 174.4 with an additional 7.4 matched into the 401k. No open time, averaged about an extra 10 hours above guarantee a month due to the rig.

HercDriver130
12-23-2018, 02:12 PM
Just to compare the numbers from the Connie pilot, I'm a 10 year 747 Captain, will be right at 174.4 with an additional 7.4 matched into the 401k. No open time, averaged about an extra 10 hours above guarantee a month due to the rig.

I will chime in... 8 year K4 CA/747, 266k, 10K 401k match, 12k per diem.... 3 days of OT took 3 weeks of Vacation.

Atlas Shrugged
12-23-2018, 02:56 PM
11 year 747 CA.

Projected gross approximately $190K.

4 days of over time.

This place sux...

TiredSoul
12-23-2018, 03:03 PM
I just crunched a few basic numbers.
As a 12 year captain who does NOT work days off, I grossed 286.6 this year, and that does not include perdiem. Nor does that include the 10,000 into my retirement. I also took January off for vacation. I won't even come close to breaking guarantee in December. I actually flew right at 700 hours for the year. That equates to about 409/hr. Y'all can crunch the numbers anyway you want, but thats what I made. It ain't Purple or Brown pay, but I don't need that to feel good about myself. This is the most I have ever made. I am completely debt free.
There are many that enjoy working more than I, but l work to enjoy life.I don't live to work.
Is this the best job going? No. But it's much better than many.

Happy New Year to everyone. Merry Christmas to All, and to all a good night.

This ^^^
Breath of fresh air, thank you for posting.

Atlas Shrugged
12-23-2018, 03:52 PM
This ^^^
Breath of fresh air, thank you for posting.

He does not work for Atlas. He is at K4.

It is impossible to make $289K at Atlas without working the OT system to the fullest.

Atrasaty
12-23-2018, 04:36 PM
This ^^^
Breath of fresh air, thank you for posting.

TiredAsoul......really......that's pathetic.

Nate2046
12-23-2018, 04:59 PM
11 year 747 CA.

Projected gross approximately $190K.

4 days of over time.

This place sux...

Youíre helping them more than youíre helping yourself. We have precious little opportunity under the RLA to exert pressure. Every OT picked up is a lifeline they desperately require and a detriment to the pilot group as a whole.

Atlas Shrugged
12-23-2018, 05:05 PM
Youíre helping them more than youíre helping yourself. We have precious little opportunity under the RLA to exert pressure. Every OT picked up is a lifeline they desperately require and a detriment to the pilot group as a whole.

How do you know that it was voluntary?

Nate2046
12-23-2018, 06:07 PM
How do you know that it was voluntary?

Youíre right, I donít. My apologies for making that assumption.
Iíve been involuntarily extended 4 days over the last two months on reserve. Thatís not something I would simply categorize as Ďovertime,í but I suppose thatís mostly a difference in semantics.

TiredSoul
12-23-2018, 06:13 PM
TiredAsoul......really......that's pathetic.

I see what you did there.
All we get from you is vitriolic puss and moan about Atlas.
Why donít you leave?

Atrasaty
12-23-2018, 07:07 PM
I see what you did there.
All we get from you is vitriolic puss and moan about Atlas.
Why donít you leave?

Cos I never thought of that until you just mentioned it. Thanks for the suggestion, I'm off to Delfedups next week. I just wish you had told me a couple of years ago. Thanks man.

skypine27
12-23-2018, 07:24 PM
For guys that want to leave, the chance is there.

FDX has been taking a fair amount of Atlas guys, and I donít think itís exclusive to the 767 pilots.

Some things of note: an unofficial but very strong rumor is You ďhaveĒ to update your app often, like once a month often, or the computer wonít even pull your file for an interview. I find this parameter to be absurd, but an HR person told a friend of mine who was hired at FDX trecently that this is indeed the case.

The same HR person also said that 200+ hours heavy jet time is a big plus and that FDX is ďrunning out of those kinds of applicantsĒ. I did not get a clarification if that only meant 200+ PIC heavy time or if SIC heavy was also a big +.

But Iím assuming you got your 1000+ PIC turbine prior to getting on Atlas, so as long as you have that, a 4 year degreee from a ďrealĒ University, clean record (no DUI, unexplainable violation, etc ) and play the ďupdate every monthĒ game with with FDX computer system, you have a good shot at getting called?

freighthound
12-23-2018, 07:43 PM
Well 16 days a month averaging maybe 90+ hours, plus 10 additional days spread out over the year @1.5xpay, plus $1000/month perdiem.

90 hours @ $124.10 = $134028
50 hours OT @ $186.15 = $9307
$1000/mo perdiem which is pessimistic?

$155,300

The math is close and another $13k is possible depending on the 16 day trip credits particularly.

Pilotcontracts.org

The reality is you probably fly the 747. Although the pay rates are the same at K4 the hours are vastly different between the airframes. The 767 pilots make guarantee unless they do overtime while the 747 guys can routinely make 20 to 40 hours above guarantee without overtime. If we are going to compare, letís compare apples to apples.

maxjet
12-24-2018, 05:32 AM
The reality is you probably fly the 747. Although the pay rates are the same at K4 the hours are vastly different between the airframes. The 767 pilots make guarantee unless they do overtime while the 747 guys can routinely make 20 to 40 hours above guarantee without overtime. If we are going to compare, letís compare apples to apples.

What do you mean compare apples? Nobody is under any illusion that this will continue indefinitely. It is what it is. The thing that most people from the outside miss, because it is hard to translate it to writing is quality of life. The quality of life has always been vastly superior at K4 than any other airline I have worked at. I have worked at some very good QOL airlines. MaxJet and USA3000 to name a few. It is not all about the money for me and I am biased.

MoarAlpha
12-24-2018, 02:18 PM
The reality is you probably fly the 747. Although the pay rates are the same at K4 the hours are vastly different between the airframes. The 767 pilots make guarantee unless they do overtime while the 747 guys can routinely make 20 to 40 hours above guarantee without overtime. If we are going to compare, letís compare apples to apples.

I thought I was being pretty fair. You are right, the 767 is typically just 64 hours at k4. Atlas has 747 too though.

I posted the link to pilotcontracts.org if anyone wants to dig deeper.

freighthound
12-24-2018, 11:17 PM
I thought I was being pretty fair. You are right, the 767 is typically just 64 hours at k4. Atlas has 747 too though.

I posted the link to pilotcontracts.org if anyone wants to dig deeper.

The thread started with Atlas 767 guys talking about their situation. Then some K4 chimed in with how much more they made. I am sure all of it is accurate. The only point I want to make is if you are flying a 767, 757, or 737 domestically for either DHL or Amazon at ABX, ATI, Atlas, Kalitta or Southern you are making min guarantee unless you fly overtime/days off. The high hour, big dollar opportunities are only in the large international flying such as done in the 747.

Iím happy the K4 guys are doing well. You just canít compare what a 747 pilot makes to what a 767 guy makes because the opportunity to accumulate hours is totally different.

5Ypilot
12-26-2018, 05:24 AM
117k plus 6.1k matched in to my 401k. 8th year 767 CA. Atlas wins again, I can thank them for making my decision to move to greener pastures ASAP very easy.

Think about this, because it's true.....Many departures are around 04:00-09:00z. If you commute the company makes you be in position 10 hours prior to duty on (90 minutes prior to departure). This means you either take a 6am flight from home to be in position for a 2am departure that night, or you come in the evening before and actually sleep. When you come in the night before you have now given up two days off. Do that twice per month, you now have given the company 21 days, oh, but they can extend you 3 days. now they have you for 24 days. There are many lines where you truly only have 6 to 7 real days off. Say what you may, but this is a fact, especially on the 767, and especially in the ONT crew base.

I have to laugh at their cheesy adverts for the job fair open house they are hosting January 17th. The catchline in the the advert is "Endless Skies". It's about right, it's like prison in the sky with a few days of supervised release every month.

Stimpy the Kat
12-27-2018, 06:33 AM
Why are you all discussing how much money you DON'T make compared to the rest of the Industry?


You're proud of that fact ?


It's like a Reverse D!ck Measuring contest...


??



STK

Twin Wasp
12-27-2018, 07:04 AM
I believe the idea is to point out to people thinking of coming here the reality of what they're getting into v. what HR is telling them.

Globemaster2827
12-27-2018, 01:58 PM
What do you mean compare apples? Nobody is under any illusion that this will continue indefinitely. It is what it is. The thing that most people from the outside miss, because it is hard to translate it to writing is quality of life. The quality of life has always been vastly superior at K4 than any other airline I have worked at. I have worked at some very good QOL airlines. MaxJet and USA3000 to name a few. It is not all about the money for me and I am biased.

I think most of us aspire to have much more than what MaxJet and USA3000 have to offer. It's awesome that you are happy and with the current contract K4 has and I could see being happy as an extremely senior 747 Captain who loved to fly and didn't mind being gone all the time. In that scenario I'd be ok.

Most of us see MaxJet and USA3000 as places you work to get to the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. We want Industry Standard Retirements, opportunities to sit Reserve and not get abused, and to have families.... All while making what the others at the top of our profession make.

aviatorhi
12-27-2018, 04:25 PM
2nd year OAI... 152.2k with 30 days OT... we didn't get the new contract till May. 345 hours for the year. Spent 135 days off/vacation and another 20-30 at home on reserve.

NorthernPilot1
01-02-2019, 04:10 PM
4th year 747 FO 86.3k.

be76flyer
01-04-2019, 09:43 AM
Youíre helping them more than youíre helping yourself. We have precious little opportunity under the RLA to exert pressure. Every OT picked up is a lifeline they desperately require and a detriment to the pilot group as a whole.


If guys in green lanyards are picking OT why shouldn't the guys in yellow lanyards not follow their leaders?

TiredSoul
01-04-2019, 10:03 AM
If guys in green lanyards are picking OT why shouldn't the guys in yellow lanyards not follow their leaders?

https://media.giphy.com/media/6sef6Q51v5IuA/giphy.gif

JonnyKnoxville
01-04-2019, 10:16 AM
If guys in green lanyards are picking OT why shouldn't the guys in yellow lanyards not follow their leaders?

I am rather certain Nate does not have a green lanyard. I do have a green lanyard and therefore I am banned by federal court from discussing anything about open time as it relates to negotiations for a new CBA.

I can tell you I personally have never picked up open time in the 8 years I have been here. That is my personal choice and it is my right as open time is not mandatory for me to take. I have been extended three times in my first few years at the company, which I was not happy about.

My time is worth way more to me than the pathetic pay that Atlas Air offers, even if it comes with a premium.

If you need to pick up this pathetic pay, go for it. Just don't blame me as justification.

TiredSoul
01-04-2019, 10:24 AM
I do have a green lanyard and therefore I am banned by federal court from discussing anything about open time as it relates to negotiations for a new CBA.

So why donít you shut up about it and let everybody else make their own decisions based on their own set of circumstances?

JonnyKnoxville
01-04-2019, 10:38 AM
So why donít you shut up about it and let everybody else make their own decisions based on their own set of circumstances?

I think if you took a little time to read my post made above your message, you will see that is exactly what I suggested. Go out a fly your little open time trips. The company is offering you two pennies for them rather than just one.

Nate2046
01-04-2019, 11:28 AM
If guys in green lanyards are picking OT why shouldn't the guys in yellow lanyards not follow their leaders?

Iíve heard every excuse, including that one. People can deny the truth all they want, but the fact is, theyíre selling out their brothers for a few dimes. Sad.

kolt66
01-04-2019, 11:34 AM
People who are picking up open time trips after everything we're going through to try to get a new CBA are a disgrace and should be treated as such by their fellow pilots.

People who openly criticize their union during this time on a public forum like this are a disgrace as well.

be76flyer
01-05-2019, 08:14 PM
Iíve heard every excuse, including that one. People can deny the truth all they want, but the fact is, theyíre selling out their brothers for a few dimes. Sad.


I was just pointing out that we have union leaders picking up OT, hell we have green lanyard CAs picking up FO OT. Just saying

CallmeJB
01-06-2019, 09:26 AM
People who are picking up open time trips after everything we're going through to try to get a new CBA are a disgrace and should be treated as such by their fellow pilots.


Question: Will refusing to pick up open time increase hiring and lead to more movement?
Answer: No. The company is already hiring as many pilots as physically possible, even buying sims and classroom space to hire even more pilots.

Question: Will refusing to pick up open time affect the company's growth plans?
Answer: No. The company has met all announced growth goals since Bill Flynn was named CEO.

Question: Will refusing to pick up open time hurt the company financially?
Answer: No. A traditional open-time ban leads to cancelled flights and increased staffing. This company is not traditional, and so far have not had any uncovered trips due to a lack of open time pickup. Refusing to pick up open time will not lead to increased staffing... the company is already increasing staffing as fast as possible.

(There have been cancellations due to last minute sick and fatigue calls, but that's the nature of the business. Open time or not, the only way to avoid these is to have nearby short-call reserves, and historically the company would rather accept the cancellation penalty-cost than invest in the cost of rarely used short-call reserves.)

Question: Will refusing to pick up open time make the company more willing to negotiate?
Answer: No. Considering the answers to the first three questions, there is no logical correlation between open time pickup and company motivation to negotiate a new CBA.



The costs are just staggering. The CBA that we deserve (and will eventually get, hopefully) will increase company labor costs by about $2 million a week. The company is saving that much every week right now. How many additional pilots does that money pay for? A lot, because we don't cost that much! The company is out-hiring their need for a CBA right now, and is saving money doing so.



What I do believe will motivate the company to settle the CBA is when they are unable to staff newhire classes with pilots that make it through training. But refusing to pick up open time will not lead to more newhire classes. The company is already hiring as many pilots as possible... we could all stop picking up open time today, or we could all start picking up open time today, or we could get a new CBA tomorrow, and the company would still plan to hire as many pilots as possible in 2019.

sky jet
01-06-2019, 11:00 AM
CallmeJB,

I don't work for Atlas and all of your reasoning sounds good on the surface but you didn't address captains not picking up open time. If captains don't fly open time the company can not easily train more if they are flat out on training already. You have to take FO's off line for several weeks which requires new hires to replace them. All this has to be done by working around required recurrent training. At least for a short period of time I would think that the company would be significantly hindered in their ability to fill trips. Regardless of what precipitates it I hope that all the employees working for your holding company soon receive the contract you deserve.

TiredSoul
01-06-2019, 05:16 PM
Some here need their moral compass adjusted a little.
This is the history as far as I am aware:

1- when the contract expired our fearless leader of 1224 resigned from his LCA position hoping that others would also. No LCA means no line checks and no OE so everything comes to a grinding halt within weeks.
This didnít happen.

2. LCAís are picking up overtime.

3-Union stewards are picking up overtime.

4-Regularí Line captains are picking up overtime.

5. New hire FOís are picking up overtime.

So all you Moral Compass Knights are bullying the crew members that are making the LEAST amount of money to NOT pick up overtime?!
Thatís real big of you.
Iím waiting for the day youíll approach a senior captain and ask them why theyíre not wearing the yellow ďall-inĒ lanyard.
Iíd love to be there when you do, Iíll bring the popcorn.
You lost on your BOOT and SHOP campaigns and the judge ordered you to no longer discourage operations as per CBA.
Youíre court ordered....think about that for a sec next time.

Screwed
01-07-2019, 02:06 AM
Some here need their moral compass adjusted a little.
This is the history as far as I am aware:

1- when the contract expired our fearless leader of 1224 resigned from his LCA position hoping that others would also. No LCA means no line checks and no OE so everything comes to a grinding halt within weeks.
This didnít happen.

2. LCAís are picking up overtime.

3-Union stewards are picking up overtime.

4-Regularí Line captains are picking up overtime.

5. New hire FOís are picking up overtime.

So all you Moral Compass Knights are bullying the crew members that are making the LEAST amount of money to NOT pick up overtime?!
Thatís real big of you.
Iím waiting for the day youíll approach a senior captain and ask them why theyíre not wearing the yellow ďall-inĒ lanyard.
Iíd love to be there when you do, Iíll bring the popcorn.
You lost on your BOOT and SHOP campaigns and the judge ordered you to no longer discourage operations as per CBA.
Youíre court ordered....think about that for a sec next time.

You sure do write like someone rooting against the pilot group.

FR8Dog7
01-07-2019, 06:14 AM
Some here need their moral compass adjusted a little.
This is the history as far as I am aware:

1- when the contract expired our fearless leader of 1224 resigned from his LCA position hoping that others would also. No LCA means no line checks and no OE so everything comes to a grinding halt within weeks.
This didnít happen.

2. LCAís are picking up overtime.

3-Union stewards are picking up overtime.

4-Regularí Line captains are picking up overtime.

5. New hire FOís are picking up overtime.

So all you Moral Compass Knights are bullying the crew members that are making the LEAST amount of money to NOT pick up overtime?!
Thatís real big of you.
Iím waiting for the day youíll approach a senior captain and ask them why theyíre not wearing the yellow ďall-inĒ lanyard.
Iíd love to be there when you do, Iíll bring the popcorn.
You lost on your BOOT and SHOP campaigns and the judge ordered you to no longer discourage operations as per CBA.
Youíre court ordered....think about that for a sec next time.


Bob only gave up his check airman status after he had made a bundle! NOT right after the contract expired. As long as you are under the thumb of Bourne with the likes of Kirchner and his cronies taking your 2.5% you are doomed. The smartest thing the Atlas and Southern pilots could do is to decert IBT and go back to ALPA where you belong.

scrupulous
01-07-2019, 07:19 AM
You sure do write like someone rooting against the pilot group.

While he is not in with the larger membership gang mentality we got going right now, he is predominately right.

We all need to know how the chess board is laid out and the rules vs our playing checkers when that is not the game being played.

We got lucky on the work action the last time. It could have gone along the way of AA's and weakened our position negotiating instead of helping it.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2001/03/pil-m02.html

Globemaster2827
01-07-2019, 09:17 AM
Bob only gave up his check airman status after he had made a bundle! NOT right after the contract expired. As long as you are under the thumb of Bourne with the likes of Kirchner and his cronies taking your 2.5% you are doomed. The smartest thing the Atlas and Southern pilots could do is to decert IBT and go back to ALPA where you belong.

Nobody ran against Kirchner. If they went back to ALPA BK would still be the head man... First the pilot group would have to think BK is the boogey man you do. Then they'd have to find someone (and a slate) who isn't too lazy to run against him. Then they'd have to win an election. While all of this is happening the clock would be ticking on the current CBA which would be doing significant damage to the careers of those involved. The attention would be on changing leadership instead of CBAs.

ALPA is great but the Atlas Pilot Group is the master of their own destiny in most circumstances.

be76flyer
01-07-2019, 09:27 AM
Bob only gave up his check airman status after he had made a bundle! NOT right after the contract expired. As long as you are under the thumb of Bourne with the likes of Kirchner and his cronies taking your 2.5% you are doomed. The smartest thing the Atlas and Southern pilots could do is to decert IBT and go back to ALPA where you belong.


BK and most of the EXCO are great guys and would have my vote even if guys ran against them. My issue is the infighting and calling guys out for picking up OT, it doesn't help anyone and just pushes guys away from the union. Our CBA is so weak the flying will get covered, might as well have guys that want/need the extra money, than have guys that want to be home extended.

FR8Dog7
01-07-2019, 10:53 AM
BK and most of the EXCO are great guys and would have my vote even if guys ran against them. My issue is the infighting and calling guys out for picking up OT, it doesn't help anyone and just pushes guys away from the union. Our CBA is so weak the flying will get covered, might as well have guys that want/need the extra money, than have guys that want to be home extended.


Ignorance is bliss! Old saying for a good reason!!

DC8DRIVER
01-09-2019, 10:01 AM
While he is not in with the larger membership gang mentality we got going right now, he is predominately right.

We all need to know how the chess board is laid out and the rules vs our playing checkers when that is not the game being played.

We got lucky on the work action the last time. It could have gone along the way of AA's and weakened our position negotiating instead of helping it.



For prospective Atlas new hires, most folks have come to this thread to post their annual pay in an effort to provide you with a realistic view of what to expect in their first years at Atlas.

Unfortunately, as in so many other other Atlas threads, this thread is in peril of devolving into another union bashing rant by our very own "1%" who are nothing more than management wannabe's working against the pilot group.

Let's keep this information channel open to people who simply want to learn about the things that will allow them to make the right decision when it comes to choosing between ACMI carriers and where Atlas sits within that group (bottom!! ;) )Please try to read past the unproductive posts to get the information that you need to decide what the truth is for Atlas new hires.

Good luck!

jungle driver
01-09-2019, 01:46 PM
I know I will probably get jumped on for even asking this but how long for a new hire to get out of ANC to HSV?

I'm not looking to come over right now maybe in the future if ya'll get a new contract, I just like to keep tabs on it since I live within driving distance.

Also how long is your home reserve call out? 2 hours?

Twin Wasp
01-09-2019, 04:38 PM
Actually the bottom 400 FO, a July 18 hire, is HSV based. The last 400 class is currently half ANC, a third LAX and a couple each HSV and CVG.

Atlas's home reserve (R1) is more meant to have crewmembers ready to airline out somewhere than cover a flight departing from their base airport. It's a way to have you on the schedule when Scheduling hasn't figured out what to do with you. It's unpaid and the time spent on R1 doesn't count towards your rig. The response time depends what time the company calls. If contacted between 7 and 12 local you have to be able to depart in 5 hours. If they call between 12:01 and 6:59 you have 10 hours to depart.

DC8DRIVER
01-09-2019, 05:47 PM
Actually the bottom 400 FO, a July 18 hire, is HSV based. The last 400 class is currently half ANC, a third LAX and a couple each HSV and CVG.

Atlas's home reserve (R1) is more meant to have crewmembers ready to airline out somewhere than cover a flight departing from their base airport. It's a way to have you on the schedule when Scheduling hasn't figured out what to do with you. It's unpaid and the time spent on R1 doesn't count towards your rig. The response time depends what time the company calls. If contacted between 7 and 12 local you have to be able to depart in 5 hours. If they call between 12:01 and 6:59 you have 10 hours to depart.

Atlas does not have a typical reserve system. To add to what TW said above, my experience as a reserve pilot on the 74's is that Atlas flies their reserve pilots virtually every day. I averaged less than one day a month at home NOT getting called to fly. They cover any open trips with off day volunteers.

YMMV

BluePAX
01-09-2019, 06:18 PM
Yea I'll chime in here too. Reserve isn't like a lot of other airlines, you'll fly a lot or be away from home somehow. I ran into a guy a week ago that said he essentially became outbased in Leipzig on a CVG 747 R2 reserve line. He was really disappointed when he expected to be home in CVG on R2 reserve waiting on a 2 hr call out.

No Land 3
01-10-2019, 03:57 AM
...I ran into a guy a week ago that said he essentially became outbased in Leipzig on a CVG 747 R2 reserve line. He was really disappointed when he expected to be home in CVG on R2 reserve waiting on a 2 hr call out.
Reminds me of my friend at Spirit. Purposely bids reserve and gets reminders that he needs three takeoffs and landings to remain current!!!

Whale Driver
01-10-2019, 06:59 AM
LOL. As soon as you said "the contract expired", anything you say after that is irrelevant. Amendable, big difference. As far as living near a base, the R2 (short call) callout time is 90 mins to report - 3 hrs to departure.

atpcliff
01-10-2019, 07:28 AM
Yea I'll chime in here too. Reserve isn't like a lot of other airlines, you'll fly a lot or be away from home somehow. I ran into a guy a week ago that said he essentially became outbased in Leipzig on a CVG 747 R2 reserve line. He was really disappointed when he expected to be home in CVG on R2 reserve waiting on a 2 hr call out.

And, you could be based in JFK, or ORD, for example, and sit hotel R2 reserve in CVG for 5 days in a row....or HKG for 12...

jungle driver
01-10-2019, 03:28 PM
And, you could be based in JFK, or ORD, for example, and sit hotel R2 reserve in CVG for 5 days in a row....or HKG for 12...

If i was based in HSV and they sent me to CVG to sit R2 and gave me a hotel would that be imputed?

Say ATL was my gateway and am based in ANC. I know they impute the price of the ticket up there to start a trip but do you sit R1 in ATL or ANC? if you had to sit reserve in ANC would they give you a hotel and would it be imputed?

sincere thanks to everyone for giving helpful answers and not just saying Allegiant is hiring.

WhipWhitaker
01-10-2019, 03:56 PM
If i was based in HSV and they sent me to CVG to sit R2 and gave me a hotel would that be imputed? No

Say ATL was my gateway and am based in ANC. I know they impute the price of the ticket up there to start a trip but do you sit R1 in ATL or ANC? R1 is home reserve, you would sit at home in ATL or any location mutually agreed upon by the pilot and the company.
if you had to sit reserve in ANC would they give you a hotel and would it be imputed? Your gateway travel (ticket to work) and your hotel prior to the start or your first reserve availability period are subject to imputed income. The hotel room provided for your reserve assignment is not subject to being imputed income.

sincere thanks to everyone for giving helpful answers and not just saying Allegiant is hiring.

Hopefully that helps.

Twin Wasp
01-10-2019, 05:54 PM
Your hotel in base can be imputed sitting reserve as can your per diem. As far as the IRS is concerned you live in base. So from their point of view you don't need a hotel or per diem.

WhipWhitaker
01-10-2019, 06:09 PM
Your hotel in base can be imputed sitting reserve as can your per diem. As far as the IRS is concerned you live in base. So from their point of view you don't need a hotel or per diem.

The company is requiring you to be on R2, hotel reserve, how exactly is the hotel viewed by anyone to be not required? I live in base and havenít used a hotel for r2, so forgive the ignorance if I am misunderstanding.

Nate2046
01-10-2019, 06:54 PM
The company is requiring you to be on R2, hotel reserve, how exactly is the hotel viewed by anyone to be not required? I live in base and havenít used a hotel for r2, so forgive the ignorance if I am misunderstanding.

I donít live in base. My hotel in CVG while on reserve is considered a benefit subject to taxation. Itís a part of my compensation thatís in addition to someone, such as yourself, that lives in base and doesnít get that benefit. My super awesome gateway travel is also shown as income so that the appropriate taxes can be deducted.

This is the imputed income factor that we deal with at Atlas. Are there any other airlines currently dealing with this?

WhipWhitaker
01-10-2019, 07:07 PM
I donít live in base. My hotel in CVG while on reserve is considered a benefit subject to taxation. Itís a part of my compensation thatís in addition to someone, such as yourself, that lives in base and doesnít get that benefit. My super awesome gateway travel is also shown as income so that the appropriate taxes can be deducted.

This is the imputed income factor that we deal with at Atlas. Are there any other airlines currently dealing with this?

Probably not, but plenty of others that deal with buying their own hotels, crashpads, and jumpseating to work.

JonnyKnoxville
01-10-2019, 07:40 PM
Also, keep in mind that Atlas Air management told the union some time ago that they have zero interest in keeping the Gateway Travel program in the next contract. I am not saying for certain that it will be gone as the negotiation process is unpredictable, but management has stated in no uncertain terms that they are gunning for it.

jungle driver
01-10-2019, 07:53 PM
How often do you have bids to switch bases is someone didn't get the base they wanted as a new hire?

DC8DRIVER
01-10-2019, 08:27 PM
I know they impute the price of the ticket up there to start a trip but do you sit R1 in ATL or ANC? if you had to sit reserve in ANC would they give you a hotel and would it be imputed?

sincere thanks to everyone for giving helpful answers and not just saying Allegiant is hiring.

You can sit reserve in virtually any city at Atlas. Unless it is your base, it would not be imputed.

BTW: Kalitta and OMNI are hiring ;)


How often do you have bids to switch bases is someone didn't get the base they wanted as a new hire?

A snapshot of your base award preferences is taken at the end of every month. On the 15th of the following month awards are made. If there is an opening in your requested base, you get moved. There is no restriction on the number of times you can change bases.

Elevation
01-11-2019, 05:29 AM
It's also worth pointing out that, for a lot of bases, Gateway's more important than people may realize. Some of our bases aren't particularly commutable for a lot of the pilots that are assigned to them. Removing gateway would be a hard sell for a lot of folks, particularly on the 747.

Personally, I worry most about retirement and setting my kids up for life after me. That's where we really need to make our biggest gains. Again, these are my thoughts and nobody else's.

Twin Wasp
01-11-2019, 02:33 PM
The company is requiring you to be on R2, hotel reserve, how exactly is the hotel viewed by anyone to be not required? I live in base and havenít used a hotel for r2, so forgive the ignorance if I am misunderstanding.

We call it "hotel reserve" because Atlas realizes most people don't live in base. Atlas could called it "short call" reserve and require everyone to be able to report to the airport within 90 minutes. Again, in the eyes of the IRS we do live in base and so having a hotel in our "home" city is a benefit.

WhipWhitaker
01-11-2019, 04:42 PM
We call it "hotel reserve" because Atlas realizes most people don't live in base. Atlas could called it "short call" reserve and require everyone to be able to report to the airport within 90 minutes. Again, in the eyes of the IRS we do live in base and so having a hotel in our "home" city is a benefit.

Fair enough. Iíve never used a hotel in base. Thanks for the info.

atpcliff
01-11-2019, 09:44 PM
in the eyes of the IRS we do live in base

Not correct. The IRS manual uses an example of a truck driver based in PHX. ALL of the driver's trips start and end in PHX...which makes PHX the driver's tax home.

For many Atlas pilots, the above does not apply, because only a minority of trips start and end at their base. The IRS does not explain that situation...at all. This is why Imputed Income was being done in a non-standardized way, and not in accordance with IRS rules.

Twin Wasp
01-12-2019, 05:29 AM
Cliff, your Pub 463 Tax Home is your base. While you may travel from your actual residence to CVG instead of your ORD base Atlas is paying DH pay from ORD to CVG as if you lived there and your rig starts at whatever fictional time Atlas shows your DH departing ORD.

scrupulous
01-12-2019, 06:18 AM
Not correct. The IRS manual uses an example of a truck driver based in PHX. ALL of the driver's trips start and end in PHX...which makes PHX the driver's tax home.

For many Atlas pilots, the above does not apply, because only a minority of trips start and end at their base. The IRS does not explain that situation...at all. This is why Imputed Income was being done in a non-standardized way, and not in accordance with IRS rules.

While I definitely believe this imputed income process was created internally by our infamous cato regime in management due to the fact they immediately came to us after it's implementation saying that they could make it go away if we got rid of gateway. ----NO KIDDING. At every subsequent attempt to fix CBA issues by the union this came up. The company could have always put this in the books as a normal corporate travel expense, they chose not to and used it as leverage at every opportunity.

Anyway, imputed income was challenged by one of our guys (MJ) that group sourced funds to do it and it didn't didn't favor us in the end. BTW that was under ALPA's watch and they did nothing. IRS isn't in the business of giving money back if they can help it. Especially if the money is in their possession.

1224 even hired a tax law office to review it again after we moved to IBT around 2012. Didn't work out for us any better. PM me if your interested and I'll send you what IBT got on it from them.

jungle driver
01-12-2019, 06:35 AM
We call it "hotel reserve" because Atlas realizes most people don't live in base. Atlas could called it "short call" reserve and require everyone to be able to report to the airport within 90 minutes. Again, in the eyes of the IRS we do live in base and so having a hotel in our "home" city is a benefit.

this is interesting because many of the regionals now offer "commuter hotels" to their pilots (around 4 rooms a month IN BASE) that can be used either the night before a trip starts or the night after a trip ends. I have never heard of anyone getting imputed for these rooms, it seems like the same situation as when Atlas gateways you out the day before and puts you up in a hotel for the night before a trip starts.

Cujo665
01-12-2019, 12:01 PM
this is interesting because many of the regionals now offer "commuter hotels" to their pilots (around 4 rooms a month IN BASE) that can be used either the night before a trip starts or the night after a trip ends. I have never heard of anyone getting imputed for these rooms, it seems like the same situation as when Atlas gateways you out the day before and puts you up in a hotel for the night before a trip starts.

ACMI gets hotels every night away from home. Most are considered home based and provided travel to wherever the plane is. There are exceptions where the airline actually has bases where trips start and finish from. I believe Atlas is like that, they do have domiciles that aren’t their homes like those who are truly home based. It’s a subtle difference.
Except for training, In the past year, to start a trip I was never sent from home to the same airport twice.

Elevation
01-12-2019, 02:51 PM
this is interesting because many of the regionals now offer "commuter hotels" to their pilots (around 4 rooms a month IN BASE) that can be used either the night before a trip starts or the night after a trip ends. I have never heard of anyone getting imputed for these rooms, it seems like the same situation as when Atlas gateways you out the day before and puts you up in a hotel for the night before a trip starts.

I think a lot of folks may be making some errors in how they do their taxes. The biggest indicator of this is that nobody seems to agree about whether imputed income is necessary and why. If you are late sending your receipts in, you get a friendly email threatening to impute you unless you submit receipts. This implies that legitimate hotel costs aren't imputable as long as they're accounted for properly, which is somewhat baffling.

If you choose to come here it's really worthwhile to speak with and use a CPA when you do your taxes. It's saved us a lot of money and kept us out of trouble with the IRS. Some people recover whatever they lose to imputed income taxes when they do their own taxes at the end of the year.

atpcliff
01-13-2019, 02:03 AM
If you want the latest info on Imputed Income at Atlas, PM me...

Namaste...



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