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View Full Version : CFI Checkride


Zach7177
12-22-2018, 07:28 AM
Good Morning,

I have my CFI check ride in a couple of weeks, just curious as to any tips others can provide regarding preparation for the ride.

Cant wait to get this ride out of the way, the pre check ride nerves and stress are already kicking in.

Again if anyone has any information that is useful such as how your CFI ride went, or maybe what areas your examiner stressed on.

Thank you,


Never2Late
12-22-2018, 07:38 AM
Good Luck-

My CFI Checkride is tomorrow (Dec 23rd) so I will let you know, although I did take (and pass!) my CFI-I checkride Dec 3rd. What area are you in?

Zach7177
12-22-2018, 07:41 AM
Ah nice good luck! An yeah by all means that would be much appreciate.

Im in the Virginia Beach area.


PT6 Flyer
12-22-2018, 08:11 AM
just curious as to any tips others can provide regarding preparation for the ride.

For me, it was explaining the learning process. For example, be ready to explain and give examples of the Law of Primacy.

There is one more thing. In those days, examiners had a quota in that they had to fail a certain number of their CFI examinees. He failed me for something trivial, then had me come back the next day and passed me within ten minutes. He just had to get that "fail" on his record and then he was happy. (I am curious to hear if this is still happening.)

Zach7177
12-22-2018, 09:53 AM
Thank you for the info.

According to words going around, the FAA is making changes to that. Apparently examiners were failing cfi applicants before even issuing the examine. Here in VA the failure rate was above 90% an was one of the highest in the country. But like I said I’ve heard rumors that changes are happening.

JamesNoBrakes
12-22-2018, 02:16 PM
For me, it was explaining the learning process. For example, be ready to explain and give examples of the Law of Primacy.

There is one more thing. In those days, examiners had a quota in that they had to fail a certain number of their CFI examinees. He failed me for something trivial, then had me come back the next day and passed me within ten minutes. He just had to get that "fail" on his record and then he was happy. (I am curious to hear if this is still happening.)

There has never been a quota. What there has been is if a DPE's pass rate is abnormally high, they just get more surveillance to be sure that it's because the students are prepared and the test is fair, rather than the DPE giving out free tickets or not even doing the test (has happened). Same thing if it's abnormally low, it requires more surveillance. There is a program now where the FSDO calls back many DPE applicants after their test to assess the test and also ensure it was fair. Whether DPEs took this all to mean that they should "fail" a certain number of students to avoid having to have an inspector go on a few more rides with them I don't know, but it seems that is the likely explanation.

As you are progressing through pilot ratings you are getting more used to checkrides and more than any other one, the CFI checkride is about knowing the standards and what is pass/fail. If you get failed for something that is not safety of flight, grossly outside of standards or failure to correct, you should stand up for yourself and speak to the FSDO DPE manager (who is just a regular inspector, nothing special). And if that doesn't work you start going up the management chain. This is very important as you are growing your pilot career and will ultimately have more responsibility and more things at stake. Your pilot in command authority comes from this and if you know you are right, you need to stand up. I give checkrides and I would never want someone being less than fair to me, so that's how I give a checkride and if I make an error, I welcome someone pointing it out. You get a lot more respect admitting to errors than trying to hide them. If a fail is legitimate, then you use it as a learning experience.

JohnBurke
12-22-2018, 06:46 PM
Back in the early 90's there certainly was a quota, when initial-CFI candidates had to do their practical with an inspector, and the failure rate was mandated at a high rate. Take the ride close to the end of the month when inspectors had to catch up and the failure rate went up substantially.

JamesNoBrakes
12-22-2018, 07:13 PM
Back in the early 90's there certainly was a quota, when initial-CFI candidates had to do their practical with an inspector, and the failure rate was mandated at a high rate. Take the ride close to the end of the month when inspectors had to catch up and the failure rate went up substantially.

Do you have documentation of this? How do you know there was a quota?

Here's an excerpt for practical tests from the old 8700.1 guidance, I see nothing there about quotas, but I just glanced over it. Perhaps you can find something?

http://fsims.faa.gov/WDocs/8700.1%20GA%20Ops%20Insp%20Handbk/Volume%202/2_001_00.htm

Never2Late
12-22-2018, 08:27 PM
Not sure if it was an official "quota", however DPE's who pass rate was higher than some statistical norm, were looked at much closer. How do I know? When I got back to flying I googled the DPE who gave me my private 25 years ago. Seems he was involved in a lawsuit against the FAA for unlawful termination. Based on the reading online, he would give a check ride and sometimes, if the student passed, he would send in the paperwork saying they failed the first time and passed on the re-take, this kept his pass stats in-line (at least he didnt actually FAIL the student to do the same), it was found out when some of these students went to apply to airline jobs and were asked if they had failed any check rides. I believe the lawsuit was dismissed however I think he is still working for the FAA in some other capacity (so maybe some sort of settlement)

JamesNoBrakes
12-23-2018, 09:39 AM
Not sure if it was an official "quota", however DPE's who pass rate was higher than some statistical norm, were looked at much closer. How do I know? When I got back to flying I googled the DPE who gave me my private 25 years ago. Seems he was involved in a lawsuit against the FAA for unlawful termination. Based on the reading online, he would give a check ride and sometimes, if the student passed, he would send in the paperwork saying they failed the first time and passed on the re-take, this kept his pass stats in-line (at least he didnt actually FAIL the student to do the same), it was found out when some of these students went to apply to airline jobs and were asked if they had failed any check rides. I believe the lawsuit was dismissed however I think he is still working for the FAA in some other capacity (so maybe some sort of settlement)

Most likely, that was what was happening. No actual quotas existed and some individuals decided to act outside of their authority, training and guidance. All an inspector wants to do when they ride along is see you are adhering to the standards and taking the appropriate action, whether it's pass or fail. Anything else is a ton more paperwork and work and must be based on something contrary to regs and standards. Having a DPE fail (or pass) people just so they wouldn't have to do more observations is just as bad as a student cheating on a test or falsifying documents (it is falsifying documents). Hopefully with the proliferation of the internet and how much information is at people's fingertips (standards, orders, regulations) this is a thing of the past, but I would maintain no official document or policy ever existed. A few individuals (comparatively) decided to act alone and outside of the scope of their designation. As a CFI, you should know when you are right and when you are wrong. This is also a good reason to use the FOIA process I described in another thread to check your own pilot records...just in case.

SonicFlyer
12-23-2018, 12:01 PM
Some DPEs have a mentality that everyone should fail their first CFI checkride the first time.

JamesNoBrakes
12-23-2018, 02:39 PM
Some DPEs have a mentality that everyone should fail their first CFI checkride the first time.

Truth be told, it IS a difficult checkride, probably the most difficult after Private Pilot for those that choose to go that path. Not difficult if you are prepared, but you have to be an expert on the standards for private pilot and commercial pilot and able to teach. Not just tell you something, but actually teach you something. Teaching skills take time to develop, a lot longer than flying skills, but you don't get all that much experience teaching before the checkride, you gain that mostly after the checkride, so that makes it more difficult. Then there is safety of flight, that has to be the ultimate thing on the mind of the prospective CFI, that you can always go out the next day or later and do the flight over again with a student, but you let them go too far in a maneuver and you may end up in an accident or worse.

Some of the things I've seen in part 61 were not knowing or understanding endorsements and requirements for practical tests, not coming with the proper endorsements themselves and then not knowing which ones to give or where to find the information. Again, you have to be an expert on the subject and able to find the information and come up with the right answer. Not that you'll have every answer, but you should know where to get it.

Also, using the appropriate references with the student, it should never be a "my CFI told me so", it should be where the CFI showed you where that regulation, practice, maneuver, recommendation or piece of knowledge was located. Get into the CFRs, get into the ACs, get into the standards, the POH, the handbooks, all of that stuff. Your student should trust you because you show them where these things are, not because there's some assumed halo around your head because you have a CFI certificate. Then when the student gets asked a question they don't know off the top of their head, they will be able to go directly to the right place to find the answer, rather than trying to rely on rote knowledge and ridiculous mnemonics or memorized lists of things. Memory aids are great, but not at the expense of the underlying knowledge. We tend to assume everything our previous CFIs taught us are correct and rarely question, but sometimes when you look in deeper you find that what was told to you had no basis in reality. These are some of the skills that make a good CFI.

One of the reasons that inspectors started doing initial CFI checks was what you mention, the abnormally high rate of failure associated with DPE CFI checks. Part of it was due to poor instruction and preparation, but there were other factors that contributed to it. Heck, think about what kind of damage a "first time failure" would cause with the CFI who now thinks it's "ok" to arbitrarily fail someone the first time something is done successful. That's against so many principles of instruction and teaching that it's ridiculous. Unfortunately a few bad seeds always exist, but the better prepared you are and the better you know the material, the better you can stand up for yourself.

TurboWill
12-23-2018, 07:50 PM
The oral is straight forward, you either know the info or you don't. In the flight you can talk your way out of mistakes.

Zach7177
12-24-2018, 09:42 AM
Hey thank you, yeah I'm in pretty good shape so far. Oral practice has been going well.

Again just seeing what everyone else's experiences have been.

fireSHAD0W
12-24-2018, 09:43 AM
I’d make sure you’re solid on endorsements from 0 to private, especially solo. In flight make sure you’re comfortable from the right seat, but at the end of the day it’s more about teaching than being 100% within standards.

Zach7177
12-24-2018, 12:29 PM
Afternoon,

Thank you fireshadow. Yeah my instructor has been pretty on top since day regarding endorsements.

Flying and talking/teaching my way through the maneuver has been pretty good. Ground teaching was a rough start but doing well with that now.

An right seat wasn’t too much of a challenge. By flight 3 or 4 of cfi training I was getting pretty comfortable. Thank you for the advice.

viper548
12-25-2018, 02:57 AM
It's been a long time since I did my CFI checkride but back then they would fail guys for any hint of weakness in knowledge of stalls/spins. You should have a big knowledge base by now, but if there's something you aren't 100% sure of, know where to look it up. I'd recommend reading the FAA books (Airplane Flying Handbook, Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, etc.) Think of them along with the FAR/AIM as the official source

Zach7177
12-25-2018, 05:18 AM
Great tip viper. I feel pretty proficient in that area and aerodynamics as a whole. But I will surely review over.

Thank you

Never2Late
12-25-2018, 10:23 AM
Zach-

Did my checkride Sunday, unfortunately not the result I had hoped for. The oral is PRETTY straight forward with one exception, remember you are the INSTRUCTOR, assume every question he asks you he is asking you to teach him about it (not just answer it). He gave me a scenario of a cross-country flight and wanted to know "So what would we do", I pulled out the navlog and started filling it out. I fumbled thru a few things but made it thru, the problem with that was he said "I said I was the student, are you going to fill out the Navlog for all of your students?", I didnt explain the steps I was doing etc. I just did it. Oh well, he said next time just come in with a Navlog done and "teach him" what i did to fill it out, thats all I need to redo, I passed the rest of the oral so its that and the flying portion left. It stings a little bit, my CFI tried emphasizing that I was the teacher in my training I just didnt perform well that day! It happens, good news is I can spend the next two weeks making sure my flying is ready and not split my time between preparing for the oral and flying.

SonicFlyer
12-25-2018, 11:41 AM
He gave me a scenario of a cross-country flight and wanted to know "So what would we do", I pulled out the navlog and started filling it out. I fumbled thru a few things but made it thru, the problem with that was he said "I said I was the student, are you going to fill out the Navlog for all of your students?", I didnt explain the steps I was doing etc. I just did it. Oh well, he said next time just come in with a Navlog done and "teach him" what i did to fill it out, thats all I need to redo, I passed the rest of the oral so its that and the flying portion left. That DPE is an ********* and should have his title revoked for that sort of crap.

If you messed up on something technical or judgement, yes, fail. But it seems to me, as you relayed it, that he failed you because he didn't adequately explain what he wanted from you. His yacht payment is probably due next week. :rolleyes: :mad:

Never2Late
12-25-2018, 12:12 PM
Sonic-

I get what you are saying and kind of agree with you. It could have been easy when I first started doing it that he asked "are you doing this or showing me", on the other hand, I should have realized I wasnt being tested on MY ability to fill out a Navlog, I am being tested on my ability to EXPLAIN and teach the navlog (the reason why he said have it prepared and be ready to explain it next time). I should have known better. In all honesty, I have probably have done only 3 or so Navlogs in the last year (for my commercial) so I wasnt the most fluid at it either, I had a few eraser marks on it!

tm602
12-30-2018, 08:47 AM
Mine failed me for doing a go around. "Failing to get it right the first time is a lack of instructional knowledge" was his explanation. And the kicker, it was for a no flaps, soft field landing, on the numbers. Not even in the PTS!!!
Of course he would not write the landing type, just "lack of instructional knowledge". My instructor took it up with the local FSDO, who agreed it was bogus, but "we were not there to witness it" was the impotent reply.
That examiner later died in a plane crash I'm told.

chronomaster31
12-31-2018, 12:31 AM
Mine failed me for doing a go around. "Failing to get it right the first time is a lack of instructional knowledge" was his explanation. And the kicker, it was for a no flaps, soft field landing, on the numbers. Not even in the PTS!!!
Of course he would not write the landing type, just "lack of instructional knowledge". My instructor took it up with the local FSDO, who agreed it was bogus, but "we were not there to witness it" was the impotent reply.
That examiner later died in a plane crash I'm told.Good riddence

Sent from my LG-H931 using Tapatalk

TiredSoul
12-31-2018, 01:16 AM
Just playing devils advocate here but if the DPE is asking you to demonstrate something which is not in the Private, Commercial or CFI PTS then you should politely point that out without attempting it.
You’re just opening the door if you start attempting things you’re not supposed to.
What if a student dared you to do something, would you do it?

If the “flaps don’t work” it’s an abnormal situation and you act accordingly.

JamesNoBrakes
12-31-2018, 08:43 AM
Just playing devils advocate here but if the DPE is asking you to demonstrate something which is not in the Private, Commercial or CFI PTS then you should politely point that out without attempting it.
You’re just opening the door if you start attempting things you’re not supposed to.
What if a student dared you to do something, would you do it?

If the “flaps don’t work” it’s an abnormal situation and you act accordingly.

Exactly this. And you stop the checkride right there for safety of flight if they don't agree. It's sad that DPEs are out there like this, but unless someone takes a stand, it'll continue and your knowledge as a CFI is one of the primary ways to do this. The DPEs actions obviously teach people to do the wrong and unsafe thing when this occurs. If the FSDO won't investigate, call the regional FAA office and find someone that will, keep going up the chain until you get it resolved.

On the previous failure a few posts back, if the DPE assigned that task (XC flight planning) as your "teaching lesson", it could be a legitimate fail to just fill it out or simply "telling", that is going to depend on the circumstances. One subject is selected for you to teach from the PTS if I recall correctly, other selected subjects are to verify your instructional and technical knowledge, but only one is intended for you to "teach" in it's entirety. If that was it, that might have had something to do with it. To that extent, I would have the student "do everything" and guide them through the planning process, plotting courses, getting the right weather data, making the calculations. Once they've done that process a few times themselves with you guiding, they learn it, rather than having them watch you and then turn them loose and hope they can "figure it out", which almost never works. Hard work and time spent with the student early on with a lot of these processes pays off later when they learn it and can do it by themselves, rather than having to constantly baby-sit every process. Sometimes there's a tendency to want to "speed up" some of these processes by doing some of the work for the student, cut down on the oral time, but patience always paid off for me and required less "re-training" and time spent in the end.

Never2Late
12-31-2018, 08:45 AM
Mine failed me for doing a go around. "Failing to get it right the first time is a lack of instructional knowledge" was his explanation. And the kicker, it was for a no flaps, soft field landing, on the numbers. Not even in the PTS!!!
Of course he would not write the landing type, just "lack of instructional knowledge". My instructor took it up with the local FSDO, who agreed it was bogus, but "we were not there to witness it" was the impotent reply.
That examiner later died in a plane crash I'm told.

Something doesnt seem right about this. If faced with a no flap (assume flaps inop), soft field landing, common sense says in real life I am not doing this and I would proceed to an alternate with sufficient landing distance and pavement. Certainly WORST CASE, if I am stuck and have to make this landing, you better believe a Go-Around is an option if the landing doesnt seem right.

I was also told (please correct me if I am wrong as my re-test is Thursday!) that a go-around is always an option on the CFI checkride EVEN for a power off 180 (which is not allowed on the commercial exam). I was told because you are being tested on how to teach, not necessarily on the maneuver itself. Could someone chime in?

Never2Late
12-31-2018, 09:28 AM
On the previous failure a few posts back, if the DPE assigned that task (XC flight planning) as your "teaching lesson", it could be a legitimate fail to just fill it out or simply "telling", that is going to depend on the circumstances. One subject is selected for you to teach from the PTS if I recall correctly, other selected subjects are to verify your instructional and technical knowledge, but only one is intended for you to "teach" in it's entirety. If that was it, that might have had something to do with it.


The PTS requires a "preflight lesson on a maneuver to be performed in flight" (teaching lesson) so you have to teach a maneuver. Since I did my CFII first, this is not a requirement for the "CFI Add-on". However, the PTS states Task II one of the options is "Navigation and Flight Planning", reading that requirement, I didnt do that, I should have pulled out the PTS and MADE SURE I covered everything in there. It is not the DPE's job to pull it out of you. I'll take the loss and move on, it would be easier to "blame" the DPE, but then what do I learn?

jabr800
12-31-2018, 09:36 AM
1970 or so, took my CFI Ride with an FAA Guy.
Oral somehow went OK though I don't remember much about it now, but I do know I was ready.
Flight portion was OK, but the Gentleman was nice enough during the flight to mention, that I wasn't talking enough.
He was probably correct (nerves kicking in for me), so I went into high gear and didn't shut up until we landed and went back into the GADO building.
He said that he was considering failing me do to my lack of instructing that I was demonstrating, however, since it changed dramatically after his comment, he passed me, when he determined I could adequately perform the job.

About a year later did the CFII ride with a different FAA Guy and it was similar but different.
I apparently was instructing OK in the flight portion, but he briefly announced that I wasn't looking outside for traffic while teaching.
He was probably correct to his standard, so I immediately adapted to that scenario and had my head on a swivel while teaching to the point that I think he got dizzy watching me, as I pointed out numerous targets to him, several that he never saw.
Anyway, another first time pass !!!

My moral to the story is just like teaching a real student later when you are licensed, you have to figure out what ain't happening and make the change in a timely manner.
Had to do just that on both my check rides and it worked.
I was lucky that the examiners both gave me some clues on what I needed to do better, before maybe dropping the axe on me.

Good luck.


jabr800

JamesNoBrakes
12-31-2018, 09:44 AM
Something doesnt seem right about this. If faced with a no flap (assume flaps inop), soft field landing, common sense says in real life I am not doing this and I would proceed to an alternate with sufficient landing distance and pavement. Certainly WORST CASE, if I am stuck and have to make this landing, you better believe a Go-Around is an option if the landing doesnt seem right.

I was also told (please correct me if I am wrong as my re-test is Thursday!) that a go-around is always an option on the CFI checkride EVEN for a power off 180 (which is not allowed on the commercial exam). I was told because you are being tested on how to teach, not necessarily on the maneuver itself. Could someone chime in?

You are being tested on your ability to maintain and comply with the standards for the maneuver you are executing. That doesn't mean perfection, but it does mean within standards. If the DPE is flying as a student, then they are usually looking for you to point out errors, you can't be responsible for their actions while they are flying, except to take the controls during safety of flight scenarios and when a negative transfer of learning is occurring from them doing a maneuver wrong. Sometimes they are looking for you to critique their performance after they accomplish a maneuver and tell them whether it was within standards or not.

The simply way I interpret this is: If the candidate is on the controls, they must comply with the applicable standards. If the DPE is on the controls and evaluating the CFI's performance, the CFI is responsible to demonstrate their instructional knowledge and maintain safety of flight.

Power off 180s have always been a little bit in the grey, since once you "start", you either complete it successfully or not. If you are doing this in real life, you have no "go-around", unlike a short-field landing. I've known a lot of DPEs to give some leeway on this and honestly if something comes in and interferes like a downdraft then you should get another attempt, but that can be a touchy area, was it your planning, or a downdraft? I see lots of people flying "best glide speed" on the downwind past their point, which makes little sense to me. So you are going to fly best glide, maximizing the distance in the opposite direction to where you want to go, often with a tailwind, then you are going to turn INTO the wind and now you are forced to maximize your distance on final. IME, going to "best glide" is not warranted unless you are on final and need to extend your distance there. I tried to teach these as a "box", you keep yourself in the box where you have options, ways you can get lower or higher on the approach path, vs. flying best glide early on and screwing yourself later. I got really far into these and came up with specific criteria, amounts of wind, distances and altitudes and a formula where to make the turns so it would be repeatable and reliable for various conditions. The reason I got so analytical with them is the "catch-22" of the maneuver, technically it has to work the first time. If my students got a "2nd attempt", all the better and in the rare case they didn't nail it the first time I'd given them enough tools they would be able to analyze why it didn't work. IME, private and commercial students are not very good at "guessing" and they don't have the thousands of hours that are necessary to operate much more on feel, so you have to provide a good structured basis for their decisions, on which they'll develop those higher skills.

Not a direct answer, but if something unforeseen interferes with the maneuver, it may be repeated. Sometimes it's hard to get a tower to give the spacing, sometimes an airplane hasn't cleared the runway, etc. If it's your planning on a power-off 180, probably not. Doesn't mean you shouldn't go around, continuing and landing when you know it won't be in standards would be even worse obviously, but due to the nature of this maneuver there may not be a "second chance". Same thing with an engine failure to emergency approach to landing task, you don't really get a "go-around" on that one either.

JamesNoBrakes
12-31-2018, 09:47 AM
The PTS requires a "preflight lesson on a maneuver to be performed in flight" (teaching lesson) so you have to teach a maneuver. Since I did my CFII first, this is not a requirement for the "CFI Add-on". However, the PTS states Task II one of the options is "Navigation and Flight Planning", reading that requirement, I didnt do that, I should have pulled out the PTS and MADE SURE I covered everything in there. It is not the DPE's job to pull it out of you. I'll take the loss and move on, it would be easier to "blame" the DPE, but then what do I learn?

Correct, I wasn't remembering it quite correctly.

The good thing is that as you do this, you learn the PTS/ACS much better and become an expert on this. This benefits you greatly down the road with checkrides for yourself and students. Then it's becomes much less of a "mystery" and you know when someone is trying to get you to do something outside the standards.

JohnBurke
12-31-2018, 10:40 AM
Exactly this. And you stop the checkride right there for safety of flight if they don't agree.

It wasn't a CFI checkride, but a 135 ride on which the Chief Pilot told me he'd be expecting a single engine go-around in a King Air 90 the next day on my recurrent checkride. I told him it wasn't happening; high density altitude, surrounded by mountains, Part 23 airplane, single engine go around. No.

"I'll just fail you, then. It's in the ATP practical test standards, and you must do it." He said.

Not if the airplane can't do it, isn't designed for it. Isn't certified to do it. I asked if he'd do it with fuel, a patient, nurses and medic on board. He said absolutely. I warned him not to do it. Don't pull an engine below 400' or you're not getting it back and you won't like the results.

He did it.

The next day after touch down on an ILS he said "go." I powered up and came off the ground as he retarded a power lever. "We'll call this your single engine go around." He said with a smile.

Ok. Ground rules were set. Let's follow them. I continued straight ahead. He asked when I intended to turn. I told him I didn't intend to turn. He asked how I planned to get back to the airport. I told him we weren't going back, that it was no longer possible. He demanded. I said no. He ordered the power pushed up, and I told him the rules were clear. No. He asked my intentions. I pointed to some vacant property. But there are powerlines. No problem. We're making the approach beneath them. He ordered, demanded, finally begged, and then cried. I relented, let him push the power up, but said I wasn't going to. He pushed it up, wiped his tears, and asked if he could fly on the way home. I let him. He didn't say a word. Got out, signed me off, drove away.

He was fired a few months later for stupidity, first setting the altitude alerter a thousand feet below field elevation on a black-hole approach to a high desert airfield one night, and then for coming back to the same location later in the day and taxiing into the weeds while head-down in a turn on the taxiway. Even the patient refused to fly with him.

If it's wrong and you know it's wrong, don't do it. Personally, I don't care if it's a checkride.

TurboWill
12-31-2018, 01:08 PM
It wasn't a CFI checkride, but a 135 ride on which the Chief Pilot told me he'd be expecting a single engine go-around in a King Air 90 the next day on my recurrent checkride. I told him it wasn't happening; high density altitude, surrounded by mountains, Part 23 airplane, single engine go around. No.

"I'll just fail you, then. It's in the ATP practical test standards, and you must do it." He said.

Not if the airplane can't do it, isn't designed for it. Isn't certified to do it. I asked if he'd do it with fuel, a patient, nurses and medic on board. He said absolutely. I warned him not to do it. Don't pull an engine below 400' or you're not getting it back and you won't like the results.

He did it.

The next day after touch down on an ILS he said "go." I powered up and came off the ground as he retarded a power lever. "We'll call this your single engine go around." He said with a smile.

Ok. Ground rules were set. Let's follow them. I continued straight ahead. He asked when I intended to turn. I told him I didn't intend to turn. He asked how I planned to get back to the airport. I told him we weren't going back, that it was no longer possible. He demanded. I said no. He ordered the power pushed up, and I told him the rules were clear. No. He asked my intentions. I pointed to some vacant property. But there are powerlines. No problem. We're making the approach beneath them. He ordered, demanded, finally begged, and then cried. I relented, let him push the power up, but said I wasn't going to. He pushed it up, wiped his tears, and asked if he could fly on the way home. I let him. He didn't say a word. Got out, signed me off, drove away.

He was fired a few months later for stupidity, first setting the altitude alerter a thousand feet below field elevation on a black-hole approach to a high desert airfield one night, and then for coming back to the same location later in the day and taxiing into the weeds while head-down in a turn on the taxiway. Even the patient refused to fly with him.

If it's wrong and you know it's wrong, don't do it. Personally, I don't care if it's a checkride.
This is great info. Thanks for sharing.

TiredSoul
01-03-2019, 11:23 AM
I didn’t make my demonstration power-off 180 in a Piper Arrow so I initiated a go-around.
FAA inspector asked me what I think was incorrect or what common error I inadvertently demonstrated and I told him.
He sugggested I fly faster and not start the maneuver at best glide on downwind.
Took his hint and nailed it the second time around.
No doubt I would have failed ( NOT he would have failed me) had I not made it the second time.

Never2Late
01-04-2019, 08:25 AM
Mine failed me for doing a go around. "Failing to get it right the first time is a lack of instructional knowledge" was his explanation.

So checkride was yesterday at KVNY, oral was all of 10 minutes, EXPLAINING to him how to fill out a nav log (1 line) and then to the plane. All maneuvers went well, then he said lets go back and do some landings. We were coming from the WEST and he said request 16L for pattern work. As we were flying towards KVNY on a right base for 16L (would have to cross final for 16R) I heard tower clear a jet for Right base 16R, then had me turn to the VOR (vs. vectoring me behind the jet). It became a REALLY weird pattern, was concerned about crossing in front of the jet AND it turns out it was about 8 knots tailwind for landing. He asked me to do a "Soft Field Landing". Didnt get down fast enough due to my concerns about the jet and had to do a go around. the first thing I thought about was your post and thought this is it, checkride over! We came around and set up well however due to the tailwind I landed long and could not have done a T&G as he wanted. We taxied back and this time he asked me to do a NO FLAP landing (again, short runway, 8kt tailwind), was cleared for a "Full stop only to change runways around", came in a little high but slipped it at the end but still landed long. Tower asked if we wanted to taxi back, I said "affirmative" he said no, go back to the FBO (I thought FOR SURE I failed). My mind was racing 100 miles an hour thinking about how I will call him to task for giving me two of the hardest landings to do with a tailwind. Then I thought maybe he would tell me I shouldnt have tried those landings and fail me for not speaking up. The last guy I know who did the checkride with him said a G-V took off before them and tower told them to expect a 4 minute delay for wake turb, DPE says lets waive it and CFI student says "that would not be good decision making" (thinking he was being tested) and he said, no, lets waive it and go (and DPE contacted tower to waive the time). So I didnt know what to think, apparently he does not "test" ADM. Fortunately he just had to pee really bad! I will say with the doubt in my mind, it sucked having to wait for him to pee then debrief, then at the end give me the handshake.