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View Full Version : Letters from a above


Magic8Ball
12-22-2018, 06:24 PM
Could someone please post whatever memo SKYW got about breaking up the band?


amcnd
12-22-2018, 07:04 PM
Basically it stated shedding the unprofitable portion of incís aircraft. Leaving SkyWest at 460 aircraft all profitable and secures our flying with UA and provided 25 growth aircraft as opportunity provides...Oh.. and they have ďlearned many lessons ď...??.. what not to do again i guess..

Check Complete
12-23-2018, 04:54 AM
And because "Shrinking to profitability" has always worked for airlines in the past.


rickair7777
12-23-2018, 07:12 AM
And because "Shrinking to profitability" has always worked for airlines in the past.

Not exactly shrinking to profitability, more like getting a marriage annulled.

The profitable part stays, the other part can go try it's luck somewhere else.

domino
12-23-2018, 10:20 AM
Not exactly shrinking to profitability, more like getting a marriage annulled.

The profitable part stays, the other part can go try it's luck somewhere else.

The letter said shrinking to profitability. Whatever way you spin it, Skywest is shrinking.

rickair7777
12-23-2018, 11:24 AM
The letter said shrinking to profitability. Whatever way you spin it, Skywest is shrinking.

Inc did, but airlines seems to be doing just fine... they are sure doing a bunch of flying for my airline.

amcnd
12-23-2018, 02:07 PM
The letter said shrinking to profitability. Whatever way you spin it, Skywest is shrinking.

He was referring to XJT....

word302
12-23-2018, 02:16 PM
The letter said shrinking to profitability. Whatever way you spin it, Skywest is shrinking.

Do you work here? We'll likely "shrink" to 5000 pilots in the next 6-9 months.

Check Complete
12-23-2018, 02:36 PM
Do you work here? We'll likely "shrink" to 5000 pilots in the next 6-9 months.

Ok, maybe "airlines" will grow but "Inc" is definitely shrinking, call it what you want. Honestly, the entire operation is too big for the brain power in SGU. We have long out grown the management capability available and simple corporate greed has been the driving factor in every decision made. Running flights a day later, over 16 hours late, just to get the FFD is flat out wrong. We have crews with so little experience going into severe weather with no back ground in doing so. When a new Captain is asking a gate agent if he should deice and what would other Captains do in this type of weather is a clear signal that more growth is not going to fix things.

Probably the biggest problem "Inc" had with XJT was that they had to deal with their unions and had to comply with agreed to work rules.

Sincerely hope the new XJT competes against us and we lose every contract to them. If anybody thinks we are too big to fail, just remember Comair.

word302
12-23-2018, 03:46 PM
Ok, maybe "airlines" will grow but "Inc" is definitely shrinking, call it what you want. Honestly, the entire operation is too big for the brain power in SGU. We have long out grown the management capability available and simple corporate greed has been the driving factor in every decision made. Running flights a day later, over 16 hours late, just to get the FFD is flat out wrong. We have crews with so little experience going into severe weather with no back ground in doing so. When a new Captain is asking a gate agent if he should deice and what would other Captains do in this type of weather is a clear signal that more growth is not going to fix things.

Probably the biggest problem "Inc" had with XJT was that they had to deal with their unions and had to comply with agreed to work rules.

Sincerely hope the new XJT competes against us and we lose every contract to them. If anybody thinks we are too big to fail, just remember Comair.

There's a whole lot wrong with this place, but management here is pretty brilliant.

TFAYD
12-23-2018, 06:50 PM
There's a whole lot wrong with this place, but management here is pretty brilliant.

I fully agree with that statement!

TFAYD

jtsastre
12-23-2018, 07:08 PM
Running flights a day later, over 16 hours late, just to get the FFD is flat out wrong. We have crews with so little experience going into severe weather with no back ground in doing so. When a new Captain is asking a gate agent if he should deice and what would other Captains do in this type of weather is a clear signal that more growth is not going to fix things

How is this different than any other regional out there.

domino
12-24-2018, 08:30 AM
Do you work here? We'll likely "shrink" to 5000 pilots in the next 6-9 months.

Yes. And we will shrink more than that now that the economy is contracting or will be soon. Plan Bs at the ready gents. As long as trump is destroying America, no one is safe.

bradthepilot
12-24-2018, 08:39 AM
Yes. And we will shrink more than that now that the economy is contracting or will be soon. Plan Bs at the ready gents. As long as trump is destroying America, no one is safe.


https://media.giphy.com/media/e1Lv6Gvd8bFFC/giphy.gif

Melit
12-24-2018, 08:45 AM
Yes. And we will shrink more than that now that the economy is contracting or will be soon. Plan Bs at the ready gents. As long as trump is destroying America, no one is safe.

Your credibility is shot now.

amcnd
12-24-2018, 10:08 AM
130 newhires in January.....

thaddiusMbuggs
12-24-2018, 11:56 AM
130 newhires in January.....

Going out of business :p

Gundriver64
12-24-2018, 01:04 PM
Your credibility is shot now.

Agreed. Did somebody get this guy a Hurt Feelings report?

DarkSideMoon
12-24-2018, 01:41 PM
Agreed. Did somebody get this guy a Hurt Feelings report?

I already got mine, itís just a graph of my 401k this year.

ToastAir
12-24-2018, 05:25 PM
ďHow is this different than any other regional out there.Ē

XJT for one has a lot of very experienced FOís not to mention captains

Gundriver64
12-25-2018, 10:23 AM
I already got mine, itís just a graph of my 401k this year. If youíve been in the market any length of time this likely isnít your first (or last) sad face emanating from a prospectus...

domino
12-26-2018, 08:18 AM
130 newhires in January.....

Great. You have to hire until you furlough.
Those new hires were budgeted for in a previous round of outlook determination. That now has changed. Stand by for the bad news and predictable recession coming. Majors will likely stop hiring for any where from a year to three years as they park the older fleets and let attrition take care of the over staffing. Regionals on the other hand will have to resort to plain old furlough, assuming that is how Skywest does it. Without a union, they can just flat out fire.

amcnd
12-26-2018, 08:24 AM
Great. You have to hire until you furlough.
Those new hires were budgeted for in a previous round of outlook determination. That now has changed. Stand by for the bad news and predictable recession coming. Majors will likely stop hiring for any where from a year to three years as they park the older fleets and let attrition take care of the over staffing. Regionals on the other hand will have to resort to plain old furlough, assuming that is how Skywest does it. Without a union, they can just flat out fire.

ďassuming that is how Skywest does it.Ē. We donít know how they do that... they never have. They have always offered time off no pay. Complete months off ect., And trust me. There would be plenty of takers... were all over worked. And the Majors would have to find away around the contracts with SkyWest. Thats what happened last time. The whole owned furloughed. And the Contract carries seemed to do better... but there is no way of predicting what would/will happen. Just have to live life... and enjoy it.

Check Complete
12-26-2018, 10:43 AM
ďassuming that is how Skywest does it.Ē. We donít know how they do that... they never have. They have always offered time off no pay. Complete months off ect., And trust me. There would be plenty of takers... were all over worked. And the Majors would have to find away around the contracts with SkyWest. Thats what happened last time. The whole owned furloughed. And the Contract carries seemed to do better... but there is no way of predicting what would/will happen. Just have to live life... and enjoy it.

Yes, and we have no idea what today's management will do. What you describe is a management structure from many years ago when there was far more integrity than today. There is nothing that can be done if management needed to furlough and started from the top down, reverse seniority or by fleet type or domicile. I know what is in the PPM, but that has never stopped management in the past.

But I will agree that I don't see a furlough in the near future.

amcnd
12-26-2018, 01:34 PM
Yes, and we have no idea what today's management will do. What you describe is a management structure from many years ago when there was far more integrity than today. There is nothing that can be done if management needed to furlough and started from the top down, reverse seniority or by fleet type or domicile. I know what is in the PPM, but that has never stopped management in the past.

But I will agree that I don't see a furlough in the near future.


Itís pretty much the same management..??..

thaddiusMbuggs
12-26-2018, 01:49 PM
ďassuming that is how Skywest does it.Ē. We donít know how they do that... they never have. They have always offered time off no pay. Complete months off ect., And trust me. There would be plenty of takers... were all over worked. And the Majors would have to find away around the contracts with SkyWest. Thats what happened last time. The whole owned furloughed. And the Contract carries seemed to do better... but there is no way of predicting what would/will happen. Just have to live life... and enjoy it.

My understanding is SkyWest generally will only sign contracts that are good for 7-10 years (maybe all others do as well) I have no idea if this is true, nor if there are clauses for amendments if hard times hit a partner, just what I have heard through the grapevine before anyone gets worked up.

Agree fully that the well run and smartly contracted regionals have a pretty good chance of weathering the storm IF the economy goes downhill in the very near future. Regionals are much cheaper labor and it gives the majors some ammunition to adjust scope clauses as well in some cases. But lets be honest, we are probably mostly lowly pilots here. Anyone who claims that a giant recession/furloughs/bankruptcy/sun exploding is just around the corner really has no clue.

Check Complete
12-26-2018, 02:00 PM
Itís pretty much the same management..??..

There's one person in basically the same position as 10 years ago and he's, hopefully, leaving soon. The rest are working basically on commission, none of them fly or are even current. FFD is the driving compass and it leads to bad philosophies and poor decisions. Just because you can legally can do something doesn't mean you should.

This is nothing like what we had in the past, at least the upper guys stayed current. How do you manage something you haven't done in over 5 years or more?

amcnd
12-26-2018, 02:45 PM
There's one person in basically the same position as 10 years ago and he's, hopefully, leaving soon. The rest are working basically on commission, none of them fly or are even current. FFD is the driving compass and it leads to bad philosophies and poor decisions. Just because you can legally can do something doesn't mean you should.

This is nothing like what we had in the past, at least the upper guys stayed current. How do you manage something you haven't done in over 5 years or more?

Besides BH. The rest were here in some fashion.. and most are more ďpilot friendlyĒ regardless of what people will say about that. The VP former director of training a sim instructor, ect. Director of ops the same, aure they get told what to do. But CC is way more a pilots friend then most CEOís.

amcnd
12-26-2018, 02:46 PM
My understanding is SkyWest generally will only sign contracts that are good for 7-10 years (maybe all others do as well) I have no idea if this is true, nor if there are clauses for amendments if hard times hit a partner, just what I have heard through the grapevine before anyone gets worked up.

Agree fully that the well run and smartly contracted regionals have a pretty good chance of weathering the storm IF the economy goes downhill in the very near future. Regionals are much cheaper labor and it gives the majors some ammunition to adjust scope clauses as well in some cases. But lets be honest, we are probably mostly lowly pilots here. Anyone who claims that a giant recession/furloughs/bankruptcy/sun exploding is just around the corner really has no clue.

In the past we had some long contacts 15-2 years. Now the majors seem to like 7-12 years for dual class and 2-5 years for 50 seaters...

Check Complete
12-26-2018, 03:12 PM
Besides BH. The rest were here in some fashion.. and most are more ďpilot friendlyĒ regardless of what people will say about that. The VP former director of training a sim instructor, ect. Director of ops the same, aure they get told what to do. But CC is way more a pilots friend then most CEOís.

Please pass around what you are on........

Especially for all the pilots terminated in the last 6 months....

amcnd
12-26-2018, 04:16 PM
Please pass around what you are on........

Especially for all the pilots terminated in the last 6 months....

Duck. Black helicopters are hovering....

DarkSideMoon
12-26-2018, 04:28 PM
Please pass around what you are on........

Especially for all the pilots terminated in the last 6 months....

Outsider here, how many of those were for non-grievous, non-easily deadly mistakes?

amcnd
12-26-2018, 04:47 PM
Outsider here, how many of those were for non-grievous, non-easily deadly mistakes?

Everyone is going to give you a different answer.... but Sapa hasnít sent out anything that blinks that the company did something grievous. Or even on the sapa forum there is nothing from rouge reps that have said anything...

Check Complete
12-26-2018, 08:12 PM
Everyone is going to give you a different answer.... but Sapa hasnít sent out anything that blinks that the company did something grievous. Or even on the sapa forum there is nothing from rouge reps that have said anything...

There is no doubt that more people are getting fired today than in the past. Sure, some of the mistakes are pretty big but nothing different from our airline to the legacies or others. But today image is what gets a crew fired and not the mistake, so what is different is integrity of management.

What about the guy in RAP that got suspected of DUI, made the papers, and then all charges dropped but still fired?

Bringing up SAPA into this is nothing more than telling everyone there's a new wing of management. Useless!

The crew that ran into the VOR didn't get fired....

The crew that hit the GS antenna didn't get fired....

trip
12-26-2018, 08:17 PM
Outsider here, how many of those were for non-grievous, non-easily deadly mistakes?


3/4? Use caution with what's posted here by our frequent friend, half of what's posted is pure spin.

amcnd
12-27-2018, 03:50 AM
we also have over 5 times the pilots we did 20 years ago... even 2x the pilots from 10 years ago..

E6BAV8R
12-27-2018, 06:30 AM
Great. You have to hire until you furlough.
Those new hires were budgeted for in a previous round of outlook determination. That now has changed. Stand by for the bad news and predictable recession coming. Majors will likely stop hiring for any where from a year to three years as they park the older fleets and let attrition take care of the over staffing.

Yeah, we are about to furlough so hard we had to choose between accepting more American or Delta flying because we couldn't staff both.

Queue the furloughs, I guess.

Claxstarr
12-27-2018, 07:02 AM
Yeah, we are about to furlough so hard we had to choose between accepting more American or Delta flying because we couldn't staff both.

Queue the furloughs, I guess.

+1 facts are pesky things

Nevjets
12-27-2018, 09:51 AM
Outsider here, how many of those were for non-grievous, non-easily deadly mistakes?


The ones who deserve punishment are people who steal and who lying about stealing. But everyone deserves a fair defense. Did anyone fired get a hearing with the opportunity for a neutral third party arbitrator to decide? Or were they faced with having to pay tens of thousands out of pocket in order to take have their case heard by the appropriate authority while they arenít getting paid?

DarkSideMoon
12-27-2018, 10:14 AM
The ones who deserve punishment are people who steal and who lying about stealing. But everyone deserves a fair defense. Did anyone fired get a hearing with the opportunity for a neutral third party arbitrator to decide? Or were they faced with having to pay tens of thousands out of pocket in order to take have their case heard by the appropriate authority while they arenít getting paid?

Seems like dodging the question a bit. Are the people who are getting fired people who missed an altitude assignment or had the wrong waypoint in a flightplan or people that nearly ran into a mountain because they have no SA or stalled an airplane because reading the newspaper is more important than monitoring airspeed?

Iíd always rather have a union than not have a union. At the same time I donít see a problem with a company firing grievous offenders.

Basically what Iím asking is are the people who got fired people who wouldíve been fired even with a union involved?

amcnd
12-27-2018, 10:32 AM
Im my 5 years at alpa airline and now OO. I would answer your last question yes.

word302
12-27-2018, 11:00 AM
Seems like dodging the question a bit. Are the people who are getting fired people who missed an altitude assignment or had the wrong waypoint in a flightplan or people that nearly ran into a mountain because they have no SA or stalled an airplane because reading the newspaper is more important than monitoring airspeed?

Iíd always rather have a union than not have a union. At the same time I donít see a problem with a company firing grievous offenders.

Basically what Iím asking is are the people who got fired people who wouldíve been fired even with a union involved?

The problem is we'll never know.

word302
12-27-2018, 11:01 AM
Im my 5 years at alpa airline and now OO. I would answer your last question yes.

Really? Are you familiar with every case? There are quite a few that I highly doubt would have been fired with proper representation.

da42pilot
12-27-2018, 11:22 AM
Im my 5 years at alpa airline and now OO. I would answer your last question yes.

Whatever happened to this.....

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/27/skywest-airlines-employee-2-million-settlement/

....??? Says OO was going to appeal. I donít know how this ended up.

amcnd
12-27-2018, 12:28 PM
Whatever happened to this.....

https://www.denverpost.com/2017/09/27/skywest-airlines-employee-2-million-settlement/

....??? Says OO was going to appeal. I donít know how this ended up.

Wasnít aware of that on. And the hand written deal... that seemed to solve itself out also...

E6BAV8R
12-27-2018, 01:07 PM
Seems like dodging the question a bit. Are the people who are getting fired people who missed an altitude assignment or had the wrong waypoint in a flightplan or people that nearly ran into a mountain because they have no SA or stalled an airplane because reading the newspaper is more important than monitoring airspeed?

I’d always rather have a union than not have a union. At the same time I don’t see a problem with a company firing grievous offenders.

Basically what I’m asking is are the people who got fired people who would’ve been fired even with a union involved?

I don't understand your point, either. Why would you say you'd always rather have a union? You make it seem like a union solves every problem.

And by what do you mean "there are people who would've been fired even without a union"? Where does that come from? Do you have anthing to back that up? And how do you compare "these people wouldn't have been fired if they had a union versus those airlines that didn't"?

I'd love to see those statistics. Especially when it comes to OO firing any crewmember versus a unionized regional not firing a crewmember for the same thing.

DarkSideMoon
12-27-2018, 01:29 PM
I don't understand your point, either. Why would you say you'd always rather have a union? You make it seem like a union solves every problem.

And by what do you mean "there are people who would've been fired even without a union"? Where does that come from? Do you have anthing to back that up? And how do you compare "these people wouldn't have been fired if they had a union versus those airlines that didn't"?

I'd love to see those statistics. Especially when it comes to OO firing any crewmember versus a unionized regional not firing a crewmember for the same thing.

Youíll never find that data. Iíd rather a union have my back than not, but I have no idea if it would really help.

I never said ďa union solves every problemĒ. I also never said ďthere are people who would've been fired even without a unionĒ.

There are plenty of problems at my airline that my union hasnít solved; but at the end of the day I think I get enough benefit out of my dues Iíd rather have them than not.

Personally, at my union airline, Iíve met people who have made some stupid mistakes but at the end of the day they were mistakes, not disregarding procedure or a basic lack of airmanship. I donít think a union would be able to save someoneís job in those cases.

My point is that as long as SkyWest is only firing people (and continues to not fire people for minor mistakes) who make grievous mistakes as a result of an inability to fly or disregarding procedure I donít see how a union would be beneficial regarding discipline.

Personally, I trust no company and Iíd rather a union exist to protect me if they decide to turn a minor error into a fireable offense. But I donít think the company firing people who canít fly airplanes is a good reason to want a union.

E6BAV8R
12-27-2018, 02:15 PM
Youíll never find that data. Iíd rather a union have my back than not, but I have no idea if it would really help.

I never said ďa union solves every problemĒ. I also never said ďthere are people who would've been fired even without a unionĒ.

There are plenty of problems at my airline that my union hasnít solved; but at the end of the day I think I get enough benefit out of my dues Iíd rather have them than not.

Personally, at my union airline, Iíve met people who have made some stupid mistakes but at the end of the day they were mistakes, not disregarding procedure or a basic lack of airmanship. I donít think a union would be able to save someoneís job in those cases.

My point is that as long as SkyWest is only firing people (and continues to not fire people for minor mistakes) who make grievous mistakes as a result of an inability to fly or disregarding procedure I donít see how a union would be beneficial regarding discipline.

Personally, I trust no company and Iíd rather a union exist to protect me if they decide to turn a minor error into a fireable offense. But I donít think the company firing people who canít fly airplanes is a good reason to want a union.

Well you pretty much proved my point. You like the idea of ďblanket protectionĒ from a union. But at the end of the day, you have no idea what that protection is.

So I ask again, and you happily pay your union dues, what protection do you really think that they provide that isnít provided from an external party?

domino
12-27-2018, 02:20 PM
Yeah, we are about to furlough so hard we had to choose between accepting more American or Delta flying because we couldn't staff both.

Queue the furloughs, I guess.

And thatís the problem. Gulping the Kookaid. How many boom/bust cycles you been through? How many furloughs? When the economy hits the skids next year, youíll get a nasty wake up call.

DarkSideMoon
12-27-2018, 02:45 PM
Well you pretty much proved my point. You like the idea of ďblanket protectionĒ from a union. But at the end of the day, you have no idea what that protection is.

So I ask again, and you happily pay your union dues, what protection do you really think that they provide that isnít provided from an external party?

The protection is that Iíll be represented by ALPA lawyers against the company or the FAA if needed. That I can get help with my medical if I need it. That the company canít unilaterally change our contract, and dozens of other little perks.

Theyíre not perfect but Iíd rather have them than not, especially at the measly amount they take out of my check. At the same time plenty of people seem to get along fine at SkyWest without one and Iím not going to say you guys are wrong for not having one.

But youíre not looking to have a mature discussion about the pros and cons of union representation, youíre just looking to yell loudly.

gojo
12-27-2018, 02:57 PM
Well you pretty much proved my point. You like the idea of ďblanket protectionĒ from a union. But at the end of the day, you have no idea what that protection is.

So I ask again, and you happily pay your union dues, what protection do you really think that they provide that isnít provided from an external party?

What if car insurance was optional? Would you willingly take risks without it?

amcnd
12-27-2018, 03:28 PM
Condoms, car insurance, loss of medical, ect. Everything is a risk. If it (not having alpa)truly was a serious issue then we would be 4800+ pilots and growing by 100 pilots a month. And people would be bailing for Other regionals.. thats just not happening. I do think we will become union probably after our next contract time. But will see..

Fixnem2Flyinem
12-27-2018, 06:53 PM
Really? Are you familiar with every case? There are quite a few that I highly doubt would have been fired with proper representation.

Ding Ding Ding....

Well... The whole probation thing may not have saved me either, but seriously... 4 flights! Just canít let it go!! :)

SuperDec95
12-27-2018, 08:18 PM
Honestly, I don't care what carrier your at union or non, probationary pilots right out of training are interviewing for their job until they are off probation. Thats how its worked for like 50 years. The negotiating capital a labor group has is rarely frittered on newbies. Reality check.

Nevjets
12-27-2018, 10:31 PM
Seems like dodging the question a bit. Are the people who are getting fired people who missed an altitude assignment or had the wrong waypoint in a flightplan or people that nearly ran into a mountain because they have no SA or stalled an airplane because reading the newspaper is more important than monitoring airspeed?



Iíd always rather have a union than not have a union. At the same time I donít see a problem with a company firing grievous offenders.



Basically what Iím asking is are the people who got fired people who wouldíve been fired even with a union involved?


Iím not dodging the question. Iím taking your question and making a point of it, since in reality, only Skywest management can answer it. And that makes my point, thatís exactly the way Skywest management wants to keep it. If there was a union, they would obviously know. But my other point is that even if you did the most grievous thing you can think of, that person still should have a fair defense. Right now, you are forced with paying for your defense out of pocket while youíre out of a job, like the guy from that Denver post article or D. Douglas from years ago.

How many forego that because they lack the finances to fund their own defense? To me, that would be a better question to know.