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Diesel10pilot
12-24-2018, 10:15 AM
My daughter has been a member of Navy ROTC. She has not been under scholarship. A couple weeks ago she received her assignment of NFO. She wants to be a pilot. She will graduate in May with a economics and minor in math degree. She is close to completing her
private pilots license.

What advice would you give her? I have co workers that have suggested she try and get a pilot slot with a guard unit. Does anyone know of units that are actively looking? She is willing to go anywhere, even Fairbanks lol

Thank you,

Mickey


ps2sunvalley
12-24-2018, 11:35 AM
I don’t know how NROTC works, but 7 years ago in AFROTC, getting a Nav slot also put you first in line as an alternate pilot slot, that meaning once everyone got sent to get physicals and some people got disqualified, you could move up into the pilot category.

Alternatively you could go through nav school and then keep applying and go to pilot training later, this is all Air Force intel so maybe the Navy doesn’t roll that way.

Ultimately my advice as an active duty AF pilot would to shop herself to AF reserve and Guard units and try and go to pilot training that way, get through and bum until she’s eligible for R-ATP, then get a regional job and split time between the two until she’s able to get a major airline job. It would be the quickest way to a seniority number without paying for flight training, doing some of the coolest missions a all civ pilot can’t do.

All that said, this is only if airline flying is the end goal. If she’s all about flying mil for 20 years, just fight to get an active pilot slot, Navy or AF. If her stats are decent (mind out of the gutter folks, I’m talking test scores and GPA) it shouldn’t be hard. At least the AF is trying to pump as much through the pipeline as possible.

FlyNavy1976
12-24-2018, 11:42 AM
I did NROTC, but was under a scholarship and was able to get a pilot slot upon graduation.

My advice would be to look at other options for a pilot slot whether it be Air Force, Coast Guard or even Navy through a different commissioning source.

She could always apply to transfer from NFO to pilot, but there’s no guarantee that would work and could take years and even more of a commitment.




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USMCFLYR
12-24-2018, 12:04 PM
Do the best job she can as an NFO and apply for a transition if she decides to continue in the USN.

rickair7777
12-24-2018, 12:47 PM
If she wants to do military and airlines, look for guard or USAFR units in that order

If she wants to do airlines with minimal training cost, same answer.

If civilian pilot training is affordable, that might be faster than guard, but hard to say for sure. If I had to do it all over again I'd do the guard if career progression was the goal.

SaltyDog
12-24-2018, 05:19 PM
Was their a medical reason for not being accepted as a Student Naval Aviator?
if so, then that may or may not limit pilot/aviator opportunity in other service components as others suggest.
Assuming your daughter is afflicted with the same Aviation aviator disease most of us are afflicted without cure, then her actions should follow her priorities.
If goal was to be a carrier Naval Aviator, then would continue to seek an assignment change before commissioning.
If unable, realize that only 4-5 NFO's per year are selected to Pilot transitions and must meet Year Group limits (Navy determines need based on yet to be determined officer needs after she is commissioned) . Can see FY2016-2019 results.
https://www.public.navy.mil/bupers-npc/officer/Detailing/aviation/Pages/NFOtoPilotProgram.aspx

Extraordinarily competitive for fleet NFO's to get a transition.
If she chooses to follow the NFO path, she could potentially be locked into a community (VFA/VAQ/VP..) that isn't her first choice and potentially lock herself into that community if selected for a aviator slot later in the transition board.
Things to consider.
If desire to be rotary aviator, Army and USMC are options. Since NROTC, (not sure if USMC is still an option at this point) but it can potentially offer a pilot position. However, USMC requires further training in The Basic School (TBS) and potentially could still be physically disqualified after at TBS and lose aviator slot.
If desire to ultimately fly for the airlines, then pursuing an Air Guard or USAFR position as a pilot would be attractive. ANG is ideal as one can pursue units that fly the aircraft she desires. May take awhile if she enlists/commissions in the Guard until can can compete for a pilot slot. If works, added benefit is rather seamless transition to airlines.

Understand the expectation and anticipation of being selected for a Naval Aviator. However, generally recommend to young folks who desire to serve to start off with most desired duty. Have DD214s in USMC, USAF and USN in that order.

If she pursues the military track at this point in her life, she will have ample opportunity to be a good leader in any service in any role privileged to serve. May as well start in desired role. Often challenging to switch once in primary designation in same service. i.e. USN NFO to Pilot.
Many change services to pursue new roles and opportunities. If being a military pilot/aviator primary. Give a serious look at pursuing other service opportunities to fly now.
Best adventures to your daughter!

Merle Dixon
12-24-2018, 09:50 PM
My daughter has been a member of Navy ROTC. She has not been under scholarship. A couple weeks ago she received her assignment of NFO. She wants to be a pilot. She will graduate in May with a economics and minor in math degree. She is close to completing her
private pilots license.

What advice would you give her? I have co workers that have suggested she try and get a pilot slot with a guard unit. Does anyone know of units that are actively looking? She is willing to go anywhere, even Fairbanks lol

Thank you,

Mickey

Start applying to every ANG unit in the country (that flies aircraft she is interested in). 2nd choice, AF Reserve.

https://bogidope.com/squadron-job-listing

zondaracer
12-25-2018, 04:52 AM
Since your daughter has been in NROTC for quite some time, does she have a minimum commitment at this point?

FlewNavy
12-25-2018, 06:09 AM
My daughter has been a member of Navy ROTC. She has not been under scholarship. A couple weeks ago she received her assignment of NFO. She wants to be a pilot. She will graduate in May with a economics and minor in math degree. She is close to completing her
private pilots license.

What advice would you give her? I have co workers that have suggested she try and get a pilot slot with a guard unit. Does anyone know of units that are actively looking? She is willing to go anywhere, even Fairbanks lol

Thank you,

Mickey

I’m assuming as non scholarship student that she has no commitments. Simple questions...does she want to be a military pilot, airline pilot or simply just serve her country?

If she doesn’t want to be an airline pilot then serving as an NFO will make a great Navy career. Pilots are leaving in droves and the path to O6 and command seem to be easier these days for NFOs. There may be an opportunity after a few years to transition to pilot but the path until her service obligations are done would be about 15 years. It is also very competitive.

If she wants to be a military pilot - don’t accept the Navy offer and find an air guardunit or USAF officer recruiter.

If she principally wants to be an airline pilot then go find a guard unit or private flight school as that is the fastest route to an RJ.

Synixman
12-25-2018, 07:47 AM
Just spitballing here, but if she's not a scholarship MIDN, can she just walk? An NFO to pilot transition won't occur until after her first sea tour, ~5-6 years into her career, and they don't take many every year. It's a long shot.

If I were in her spot, assuming there's no medical reason (eyes?) they sent her NFO, I'd try to switch to pilot. If that didn't work, and I could walk without repercussions, I'd walk. From there, I'd apply to Coast Guard OCS and Navy OCS to be a pilot, in that order. 12 weeks OCS, butter bars, then on to Pensacola for flight school for either. I know zero about Air Force stuff, cannot help there.

SaltyDog
12-25-2018, 09:02 AM
... An NFO to pilot transition won't occur until after her first sea tour, ~5-6 years into her career, and they don't take many every year. It's a long shot.

If I were in her spot, assuming there's no medical reason (eyes?) they sent her NFO, I'd try to switch to pilot. If that didn't work, and I could walk without repercussions, I'd walk...

Non scholarship has no military requirement. Guessing since she will have completed the Navy commissioning program Navy OCS would not be an option by the Navy. If the FY pilot slot is available, she should be able to get it without switching commissioning programs. Same FY slots. Good leaders could probably move a slot from OCS as priority for assignments generally is Academy, ROTC, then OCS in that order. (Unless all filled already).

As already stated by many in above posts, ANG or USAFR may be best option depending on priorities.

Packrat
12-25-2018, 10:08 AM
As already stated by many in above posts, ANG or USAFR may be best option depending on priorities.

If I was in her shoes and had it to do all over again, I'd find an ANG unit that flies tankers (assuming the ultimate goal is major airline pilot).

That way she KNOWS for a fact which airplane she'll be assigned to when she starts flight school. Navy platform assignment is and always has been a crap shoot. Why? It depends on your grades and the "needs of the Navy" the week you actually come up for assignment.

That "needs of the Navy" theory follows you all the way through your career, often eliminating you from the kind or location of orders you most desire. How do I know? Happened to me ALMOST EVERY time I came up for assignment.

Initial: Wanted P-3s or EC-130s. Got Helos.

Shore Tour: Wanted Training Command. Got PMTC NATOPs.

TAR: Wanted C-9s Memphis. Got C-9s Norfolk.

The worst part of the whole deal was the C-9 debacle. Guy in my squadron wanted Norfolk. He got orders less than a month prior to me. Guess where? Memphis. We both called the detailer and tried to swap orders. No way.

"Needs of the Navy."

Go Guard. She won't regret it.

USMCFLYR
12-25-2018, 10:39 AM
Coast Guard OCS would be a worse option since before going to/and graduating from the program, you won’t even know if you have an aviation slot.

angry tanker
12-25-2018, 08:25 PM
If she is a junior or senior, she will owe some time. She can do a cross commission, so rush the af guard and reserve units hard. Has she looked at the Marine option? I think their PLT program will guarentee a pilot slot. Another option would be to try defer commissioning to get a masters and try again next year. Anyway, good luck!

rickair7777
12-26-2018, 03:53 AM
If she is a junior or senior, she will owe some time. She can do a cross commission, so rush the af guard and reserve units hard. Has she looked at the Marine option? I think their PLT program will guarentee a pilot slot. Another option would be to try defer commissioning to get a masters and try again next year. Anyway, good luck!

Non scholarship = no obligation IIRC.

tanker
12-26-2018, 08:34 AM
According to the NROTC website scholarship students must serve 4 years active duty while non-scholarship students must serve 3 years active duty.

Synixman
12-26-2018, 12:10 PM
Coast Guard OCS would be a worse option since before going to/and graduating from the program, you won’t even know if you have an aviation slot.

I'll have to ask my Coastie on-wings, but I believe if you want aviation at OCS and have the ASTB score, it's easily available. Not a guarantee, but darn close.

Break Break

To the OP, looking more, she will likely owe time from NROTC. Being a non-scholarship may offer cross-commissioning option to something like this:

https://www.gocoastguard.com/active-duty-careers/officer-opportunities/programs/direct-commission-selected-school-dcss-program

Again, I love the Navy, but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't screwed me over a time or two. I tell anyone interested in military aviation to look that towards USCG. Never met an unhappy Coastie.

rickair7777
12-26-2018, 12:27 PM
According to the NROTC website scholarship students must serve 4 years active duty while non-scholarship students must serve 3 years active duty.

Odd, three years make no sense. I guess you could barely qualify as a SWO and do a DIVO tour.

I guess you'd get the GI Bill, that would help pay for flight training.

rickair7777
12-26-2018, 12:29 PM
I'll have to ask my Coastie on-wings, but I believe if you want aviation at OCS and have the ASTB score, it's easily available. Not a guarantee, but darn close.

Break Break

To the OP, looking more, she will likely owe time from NROTC. Being a non-scholarship may offer cross-commissioning option to something like this:

https://www.gocoastguard.com/active-duty-careers/officer-opportunities/programs/direct-commission-selected-school-dcss-program

Again, I love the Navy, but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't screwed me over a time or two. I tell anyone interested in military aviation to look that towards USCG. Never met an unhappy Coastie.

Got a close family member in the USCG... definitely no guarantees for aviation.

USMCFLYR
12-26-2018, 02:17 PM
I'll have to ask my Coastie on-wings, but I believe if you want aviation at OCS and have the ASTB score, it's easily available. Not a guarantee, but darn close.

Break Break

To the OP, looking more, she will likely owe time from NROTC. Being a non-scholarship may offer cross-commissioning option to something like this:

https://www.gocoastguard.com/active-duty-careers/officer-opportunities/programs/direct-commission-selected-school-dcss-program

Again, I love the Navy, but I'd be lying if I said it hasn't screwed me over a time or two. I tell anyone interested in military aviation to look that towards USCG. Never met an unhappy Coastie.
Things certainly may have changed through the years, but sort of like Marine TBS (for Ground Officers), back when I looked and during my time you competed for an aviation slot while in OCS.

I agree with the happy USCG!
Looked at transferring myself.
I have the utmost respect for USCG aviators!

sourdough44
12-27-2018, 03:35 AM
Yes, was there a medical reason for no Navy pilot slot? If so that could hamper other options, though likely not civilian piloting. The needs of the military rise and fall, as to requirements for pilots.

Her getting a private pilots license will only help, a good amount.

If she is medically qualified, and wants a pilot slot, I would hold off on the NFO commitment, as able. I’d be talking to the rest of the services that fly, and the Guard and Reserves. I don’t like the idea of going in and ‘hoping’ for a pilot slot down the road, unless all options are exhausted.

Is she stronger into military piloting/Service or is she looking to an airline cockpit? Is she wants to be a pilot, and is only offered an NFO position, how about civilian pilot training, though she may have a military commitment after later years in NROTC.

If she gets a private pilot, has no or minor medical issues I think she has a great chance to get into one of the military pilot programs.

Back in the day I talked to every branch that would listen, and work with me. I had a few options in the pipeline, ended up at NAS Pensacola.

ColoradoAviator
12-27-2018, 04:22 AM
Advice from an active duty Air Force pilot I know:

If she wants to be a pilot then she shouldn't be an NFO/Nav/CSO. The competition from those seats for pilot training later down the line is intense.

There's a reason everybody is recommending the Air National Guard followed by the Air Force Reserve: guaranteed pilot slot and airframe. Honestly I have a difficult time recommending active duty for anybody that wants to be a pilot at this point.

Please wish her the best of luck with a major career decision. Please also let us know what she ultimately decides.

badflaps
12-27-2018, 08:03 AM
Question: Can she get out of her 3 year commitment to the Navy?

SaltyDog
12-27-2018, 08:22 PM
Question: Can she get out of her 3 year commitment to the Navy?

If nothing else, I pursued and was allowed an inter service transfer from USAF ROTC to the USN my senior year of college. Satisfied all obligations. She could ask for a Navy commission in the IRR and could pursue inter service transfer while learning to fly commercially etc.

Diesel10pilot
12-28-2018, 08:33 PM
She was medically qualified.

Thank you all for your advice, I will pass this on to her.

PNStoKLIT
12-30-2018, 04:18 PM
She was medically qualified.

Thank you all for your advice, I will pass this on to her.

If she is releasable from any commitments, go ANG or AF Res hands down. If she is not releasable, tough it up, do as well as she can in NFO flight school, hit her fleet squadron running and do all the early/crappy/new person jobs well, and push for a pilot transition. Do really awesome in NFO flight school, she can push for a transition while still unwinged in CNATRA. But, she is going to have to do extremely well for that to happen

rickair7777
12-30-2018, 04:36 PM
If she is releasable from any commitments, go ANG or AF Res hands down. If she is not releasable, tough it up, do as well as she can in NFO flight school, hit her fleet squadron running and do all the early/crappy/new person jobs well, and push for a pilot transition. Do really awesome in NFO flight school, she can push for a transition while still unwinged in CNATRA. But, she is going to have to do extremely well for that to happen

If she really wants to fly and can't get released, take a Navy job which has the lowest possible AD obligation, then get out and move on asap. NFO is not the lowest obligation, and that background will do essentially nothing to further her civilian flying career. Pilot transition is probably too much of a long shot to even bother quantifying.

IMO the only reason to go NFO is if she really digs the Navy and Naval Aviation, wants to be part of it, might want to do a career (NFO would be better than SWO long-term), and that's more important to her than a potential airline career.

Pyro
01-04-2019, 08:57 AM
Interservice transfer to the Air Force, if they'll even give a pilot slot. For the rest of you, the Navy has lots of boats and a few planes, the Air Force has lots of planes, choose wisely.

yardstick
01-04-2019, 09:01 AM
Yeah but then you have to be in the Air Force. No thanks. I say this as someone in the Navy who is as close to being in the Air Force as you can be

Pyro
01-05-2019, 02:25 PM
Yeah but then you have to be in the Air Force. No thanks. I say this as someone in the Navy who is as close to being in the Air Force as you can be

Retired AF fighter pilot here, who spent plenty of time with Navy and Marine fighter pilots. Most of them wanted to go to the Air Force National guard. I say this as a pilot who’s been doing this for 20 years, choose wisely.

Packrat
01-06-2019, 11:51 AM
Interservice transfer to the Air Force, if they'll even give a pilot slot. For the rest of you, the Navy has lots of boats and a few planes, the Air Force has lots of planes, choose wisely.

Guess who has the 2nd largest air force in the world?

The USN.

rickair7777
01-06-2019, 02:38 PM
Guess who has the 2nd largest air force in the world?

The USN.

We also have a butt ton of helos. In the AF, helos are pretty much volunteer only.

ExAF
01-07-2019, 06:52 AM
Retired AF fighter pilot here, who spent plenty of time with Navy and Marine fighter pilots. Most of them wanted to go to the Air Force National guard. I say this as a pilot who’s been doing this for 20 years, choose wisely.Ha Ha...same here. I've never met an AF fighter pilot that said...."Gee...I wish I had joined the Navy!":eek::D

Pyro
01-07-2019, 07:09 AM
Guess who has the 2nd largest air force in the world?

The USN.
Guess who has the 1st, seriously? Is this 4th grade?

Packrat
01-07-2019, 08:11 AM
Guess who has the 1st, seriously? Is this 4th grade?

You're way to serious. I guess I forgot the big grin emoji.

rickair7777
01-07-2019, 11:22 AM
Retired AF fighter pilot here, who spent plenty of time with Navy and Marine fighter pilots. Most of them wanted to go to the Air Force National guard. I say this as a pilot who’s been doing this for 20 years, choose wisely.

Operative words being "National Guard".

No brainer for a noob who doesn't aspire to four stars... no surprises on air-frame assignment, and good culture.

I think I'd prefer the navy to the AD AF, at least from a cultural perspective... might rather do a float than put up with some of the stuff I hear about from zoomies.

crewdawg
01-07-2019, 11:39 AM
If she has no commitment, go Guard and never look back.

If she has a commitment, kick butt as an NFO then apply to the Guard or pilot training for any service. Watch out though as the AF (maybe Navy) has a 5 year TAFMS limit to apply for UPT. Waivers (ETPs I think) are out there but wouldn't want to test it.



I think I'd prefer the navy to the AD AF, at least from a cultural perspective... might rather do a float than put up with some of the stuff I hear about from zoomies.

Not based on what I'm hearing from the Navy/Marines we've recently hired into our Guard squadron (both Hornet guys).

SaltyDog
01-07-2019, 03:46 PM
LOL on the USAF is better than Navy schtick.
Get on where you can do what you would like is the goal. (like flying jobs in civilian land). USAF, USMC, USA or USN all have positive elements that favor personality ranging from mission to lifestyle (even inside the service much variance) so pursue dreams. Not the parochial crud offered up by "Im better" as better is very personal.
My assessment:
DD214s from USAF, USMC, USAF and 22 years flying Navy jets, met very few USN fighter pilots that wanted to be USAF fighter pilots. They were attracted to the USN (carrier aviation, bases, whatever)
Many folks at end of obligations with growing families wanted to finish tour and become ANG fighter pilots if anything (like many USAF pilots :eek:) so same draw of talent. Culturally, USN traditionally better oriented to aviators than USAF, though USAF mentality has entered the Navy for mostly the negative IMHO (Speeding up desire to bail to Guard) . It does reduce retention rates though for both USAF and USN. Thus the Guard desirability (More similarly "Navy" ironically in culture)
Final analysis, get on where you can doing what you want to do and dream. You will actually find yourself around fantastic people 99% of the time that could be ideal USAF/USN/USMC fighter pilots or any ilk of aviator/pilot. Just like civilian flying jobs.

Grumble
01-09-2019, 09:37 AM
Start applying to every ANG unit in the country (that flies aircraft she is interested in). 2nd choice, AF Reserve.

https://bogidope.com/squadron-job-listing

Doesn’t work like that in the Navy. We don’t do anything like Palace Chase. If she’s on scholarship, they own her.

Grow where you’re planted, be the best window licker she can be and keep applying for a pilot slot.



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