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View Full Version : ATI hiring through 2019


midnightshuttle
12-26-2018, 11:57 AM
During Recent line check the CA claimed were hiring 1-2 classes a month through 2019.

Just FYI to newbs looking to bypass the regionals and fly 767ís


dynap09
12-26-2018, 02:43 PM
Two classes a month seems high. That said, a potentially good sign for some movement for folks already on property, shorter upgrade times (maybe 2-4 years?).

Someone getting an upgrade at 3 years at ATI is going to be making some pretty competitive money compared to 3 years elsewhere sitting FO.

727CA
12-26-2018, 03:13 PM
During Recent line check the CA claimed were hiring 1-2 classes a month through 2019.

True. ATI has to hire like crazy to crew these American Airlines planes that are on the way.


Crusoe
12-26-2018, 03:47 PM
ATI pay is a lot more than Atlas / Southern too. But then again so is basically everybodyís.

motorclutch
12-26-2018, 04:19 PM
This can be a unique learning experience for newbies! You can learn first hand what itís like to work with scab management pilots and gutless picket line crossers. After you leave for other ventures, you can spread the legacy.

RyeMex
12-26-2018, 05:12 PM
Someone getting an upgrade at 3 years at ATI is going to be making some pretty competitive money compared to 3 years elsewhere sitting FO.

Did you really just admit that ATIís captain pay is ďcompetitiveĒ with being a first officer elsewhere?

woog315
12-26-2018, 06:43 PM
Did you really just admit that ATIís captain pay is ďcompetitiveĒ with being a first officer elsewhere?

I think he was attempting to make a dig at ABX pilots, but yeah... Now you see what we're up against

nitefr8dog
12-27-2018, 03:34 AM
Someone getting an upgrade at 3 years at ATI is going to be making some pretty competitive money compared to 3 years elsewhere sitting FO.

For %#cks sake lets hope so! Isn't that what a new contract is supposed to do? Even a lowball one.

nitefr8dog
12-27-2018, 03:36 AM
True. ATI has to hire like crazy to crew these American Airlines planes that are on the way.
You don't think they are telling everyone that? Let the whipsaw begin...

maxjet
12-27-2018, 05:05 AM
This can be a unique learning experience for newbies! You can learn first hand what itís like to work with scab management pilots and gutless picket line crossers. After you leave for other ventures, you can spread the legacy.

A bit over the top donít you think? BTW nobody cares who you worked for at that interview that you are moving onto. If ATI continues to grow and they are able to flourish, (signs are pointing in that direction) why would you want to leave?

maxjet
12-27-2018, 05:07 AM
I think he was attempting to make a dig at ABX pilots, but yeah... Now you see what we're up against
Why is that a dig to just ABX. Is it not true with most carriers? If you come to K4 today, you will more than likely not upgrade in 24 months.

727CA
12-27-2018, 06:56 AM
You don't think they are telling everyone that? Let the whipsaw begin...

Why would you think Amazon would want to give these planes to ABX? It was demonstrated that ABX pilots have no problem with disrupting service and causing the most harm to our customer.

nitefr8dog
12-27-2018, 07:19 AM
Why would you think Amazon would want to give these planes to ABX? It was demonstrated that ABX pilots have no problem with disrupting service and causing the most harm to our customer.
Touch a nerve did I...
Just repeating what I have heard...
Also they pattern themselves after DHL which moves aircraft from one airline to the other monthly...
Convince yourself ATI is the chosen ones...the next lowball contract you will see aircraft moved like chess pieces....OMNI will get the next ones

dynap09
12-27-2018, 05:06 PM
Did you really just admit that ATI’s captain pay is “competitive” with being a first officer elsewhere?

My point was that in addition to pay, progression is valuable, and so despite how "crappy" the ATI contract is, if you are starting out, it's not a terrible spot to be in after three years. You also pick up more PIC time if you can get an early upgrade - if UPS or Fedex is a goal (it should be) that's another benefit.

Some rough #'s at 3 years assuming folks make it to CA with ATI (an if).

ATI (CA) - $190/hr

Omni - $140/hr
Kalitta (CA) - $211/hr (another place with good upgrades - nice!)
UPS - $180/hr
Fedex - $180/hr

ABX - $110/hr
Southern - $90/hr !

t207
12-27-2018, 05:37 PM
My point was that in addition to pay, progression is valuable, and so despite how "crappy" the ATI contract is, if you are starting out, it's not a terrible spot to be in after three years. You also pick up more PIC time if you can get an early upgrade - if UPS or Fedex is a goal (it should be) that's another benefit.

Some rough #'s at 3 years assuming folks make it to CA with ATI (an if).

ATI (CA) - $190/hr

Omni - $140/hr
Kalitta (CA) - $211/hr (another place with good upgrades - nice!)
UPS - $180/hr
Fedex - $180/hr

ABX - $110/hr
Southern - $90/hr !

You should have your numbers straight Omni 3 year CA is 203. In April it goes to 211, and it goes up every april for the next 2 years after that I have no idea where you came up with 140 an hour!

RyeMex
12-27-2018, 06:37 PM
My point was that in addition to pay, progression is valuable, and so despite how "crappy" the ATI contract is, if you are starting out, it's not a terrible spot to be in after three years. You also pick up more PIC time if you can get an early upgrade - if UPS or Fedex is a goal (it should be) that's another benefit.



And my point is that itís stupid to make plans based on when you hope that youíll be upgrading. The music could absolutely stop for all of us tomorrow. The only thing that, as a new hire, you should expect to make in 3 years is 3 year FO pay.

WhipWhitaker
12-27-2018, 06:42 PM
My point was that in addition to pay, progression is valuable, and so despite how "crappy" the ATI contract is, if you are starting out, it's not a terrible spot to be in after three years. You also pick up more PIC time if you can get an early upgrade - if UPS or Fedex is a goal (it should be) that's another benefit.

Some rough #'s at 3 years assuming folks make it to CA with ATI (an if).

ATI (CA) - $190/hr

Omni - $140/hr
Kalitta (CA) - $211/hr (another place with good upgrades - nice!)
UPS - $180/hr
Fedex - $180/hr

ABX - $110/hr
Southern - $90/hr !
Not sure if youíre looking at CA or FO rates or a mix of both, but some numbers are incorrect.

point432
12-28-2018, 02:45 AM
You should have your numbers straight Omni 3 year CA is 203. In April it goes to 211, and it goes up every april for the next 2 years after that I have no idea where you came up with 140 an hour!



Thanks, was gonna say that too...isnít Omni upgrading at 2 years just like K4?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

point432
12-28-2018, 02:49 AM
During Recent line check the CA claimed were hiring 1-2 classes a month through 2019.



Just FYI to newbs looking to bypass the regionals and fly 767ís



How many are going to be in these classes? You know we are wanting to do 1 class a month with 40 guys in each class. Think about it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

CandlerKid
12-28-2018, 03:27 AM
My point was that in addition to pay, progression is valuable, and so despite how "crappy" the ATI contract is, if you are starting out, it's not a terrible spot to be in after three years. You also pick up more PIC time if you can get an early upgrade - if UPS or Fedex is a goal (it should be) that's another benefit.

Some rough #'s at 3 years assuming folks make it to CA with ATI (an if).

ATI (CA) - $190/hr

Omni - $140/hr
Kalitta (CA) - $211/hr (another place with good upgrades - nice!)
UPS - $180/hr
Fedex - $180/hr

ABX - $110/hr
Southern - $90/hr !

If hired today a 3rd year 767 FedEx FO would be paid $191 an hour and a 3rd year 757 Captain (upgrades at 2 currently) would be $261 an hour. Thatís the final year of the current contract as well, so hopefully those numbers go way up.

t207
12-28-2018, 04:56 AM
Thanks, was gonna say that too...isnít Omni upgrading at 2 years just like K4?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We are at around 2.5 years upgrade at the moment. It may go lower we have two 767 coming on line in the next year and half these plane are planes orderd pre ATSG purchase. And we will just wait and see what else may happen.

EndOfTimes
12-28-2018, 05:05 AM
Omni is now part of the newly minted Hete/DHL/Amazon triangle of oblivion. Anything can happen, nobody knows. From my experience, whatever happens will be a complete surprise, and not make any sense to pilots. If you are young and considering any ATSG carrier as a career destination you are probably making a big mistake.

iceman21
12-28-2018, 06:49 AM
As a guy looking at the regionals or Cargo to start off with, what would be biggest considerations you'd be looking at?

I'm at 1820 hrs TT, with the rest of my times at ATP minimums

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

nitefr8dog
12-28-2018, 07:09 AM
As a guy looking at the regionals or Cargo to start off with, what would be biggest considerations you'd be looking at?

I'm at 1820 hrs TT, with the rest of my times at ATP minimums

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
Regionals with a flow through to a mainline pax carrier....stay away from ACMI. Cargo at Fedex or UPS when you have the qualifications is a whole different world than ACMI....you have a real future with unequaled benifits
pay and retirement.

Rockymntn
12-28-2018, 07:52 AM
I don't see the FO position on their jobs page. Is there a secret link somewhere? Maybe the hiring window isn't open yet?

Riverside
12-28-2018, 08:30 AM
I don't see the FO position on their jobs page. Is there a secret link somewhere? Maybe the hiring window isn't open yet?

They are doing you a favor.

dynap09
12-28-2018, 10:57 AM
We are at around 2.5 years upgrade at the moment. It may go lower we have two 767 coming on line in the next year and half these plane are planes orderd pre ATSG purchase. And we will just wait and see what else may happen.

Good point! I've got Omni, Kalitta and ATI all as places that have been pretty good to be at for last 3 years along.

Another good point, who knows what happens tomorrow, the music could stop for sure. This is a mix of CA wages (for places with shorter upgrade times) and FO wages (for longer) just to see what someone hired three years ago might be looking at in terms of comp.

Cujo665
12-28-2018, 11:16 AM
Regionals with a flow through to a mainline pax carrier....stay away from ACMI. Cargo at Fedex or UPS when you have the qualifications is a whole different world than ACMI....you have a real future with unequaled benifits
pay and retirement.

This really is changing....

Cujo665
12-28-2018, 11:22 AM
Good point! I've got Omni, Kalitta and ATI all as places that have been pretty good to be at for last 3 years along.

Another good point, who knows what happens tomorrow, the music could stop for sure. This is a mix of CA wages (for places with shorter upgrade times) and FO wages (for longer) just to see what someone hired three years ago might be looking at in terms of comp.

K4, Omni, ATI, then Western Global.
Atlas/Southern will be good once they get a new CBA. Itís toxic there now, but that will change very fast once they get an agreement. With the massive legacy hiring about to really jack up, I donít think it will be the two years folks are estimating. Iíd bet on a TA by the end of next fall.

EndOfTimes
12-28-2018, 11:32 AM
Assuming you will be in the left seat in 3 years time at any ACMI carrier is an enormous assumption. There are 20+ year FOs at ABX that were given that same BS, although ABX was not an ACMI carrier at that time. They were an integrated carrier soon to be dropped into the ACMI toilet by the DHL debacle. If Amazon puts a disproportionate share of their eggs in that ATI basket it would it would be a 180 degree turn from their contractor business model. If you choose to go to ATI you might want to have a viable exit strategy.

EndOfTimes
12-28-2018, 12:04 PM
Just occurred to me that it was probably ATIís current VP of ops that was selling that quick upgrade nonsense 20 years ago in interviews. Thatís right about the time he moved from super junior FO to management at ABX.

No Land 3
12-28-2018, 03:06 PM
During Recent line check the CA claimed were hiring 1-2 classes a month through 2019.

Just FYI to newbs looking to bypass the regionals and fly 767ís

Hiring flight instructors into 767 right seat?

CallmeJB
12-28-2018, 07:36 PM
Hiring flight instructors into 767 right seat?

It's been done before. It will be done again.

nitefr8dog
12-29-2018, 03:29 AM
This really is changing....
Not really...

ACMItrash
12-29-2018, 05:47 AM
Look at all these managers or management suck ups advertising the lowest paying jobs in the industry. They should be saying hey don't make it easy on the company until brought up to the rest of the industry.

10% behind in pay from omni and k4
10% behind in DC retirement from the industry

Yet blow hards saying come here work for 20% less than everyone else in the industry. Do you realize how much of your career will be wasted when you add up losing 20% of over 100k + for 4-5 years? Not to mention seniority at a real airline?

Ati, abx, omni, atlas are not going to be the next UPS. They have already shown it's going to take almost a decade to develop any kind of farmed out flying.

Do yourself and fellow pilots a favor and go somewhere with pay rates, retirement and rules in place, Spirit, Jet blue, and even Frontier all will upgrade you in the same time frame and you can have some dignity know your carrier is competitive with pilot pay.

Or you can continue selling your sole to try and get airplanes at ATI.

Here comes the tribe to say how wrong I am and telling me to leave instead of taking a stand and fighting for what others already have for doing the same work!

gumpscheck
12-29-2018, 10:10 AM
Assuming you will be in the left seat in 3 years time at any ACMI carrier is an enormous assumption. There are 20+ year FOs at ABX that were given that same BS, although ABX was not an ACMI carrier at that time. They were an integrated carrier soon to be dropped into the ACMI toilet by the DHL debacle. If Amazon puts a disproportionate share of their eggs in that ATI basket it would it would be a 180 degree turn from their contractor business model. If you choose to go to ATI you might want to have a viable exit strategy.

Amazon doesnít contract directly with any of the carriers inside the ATSG Holding company. The contract is between Amazon and ATSG. Then the decision to assign airplanes is done internally within ATSG. No pilot group works directly for Amazon.

nitefr8dog
12-29-2018, 11:13 AM
Look at all these managers or management suck ups advertising the lowest paying jobs in the industry. They should be saying hey don't make it easy on the company until brought up to the rest of the industry.

10% behind in pay from omni and k4
10% behind in DC retirement from the industry

Yet blow hards saying come here work for 20% less than everyone else in the industry. Do you realize how much of your career will be wasted when you add up losing 20% of over 100k + for 4-5 years? Not to mention seniority at a real airline?

Ati, abx, omni, atlas are not going to be the next UPS. They have already shown it's going to take almost a decade to develop any kind of farmed out flying.

Do yourself and fellow pilots a favor and go somewhere with pay rates, retirement and rules in place, Spirit, Jet blue, and even Frontier all will upgrade you in the same time frame and you can have some dignity know your carrier is competitive with pilot pay.

Or you can continue selling your sole to try and get airplanes at ATI.

Here comes the tribe to say how wrong I am and telling me to leave instead of taking a stand and fighting for what others already have for doing the same work!
Who said go to ABX...it is a dumpster fire run by incompetent management. I think we all agree on that without making up bu!!$hit.

Cujo665
12-29-2018, 12:54 PM
Look at all these managers or management suck ups advertising the lowest paying jobs in the industry. They should be saying hey don't make it easy on the company until brought up to the rest of the industry.

10% behind in pay from omni and k4
10% behind in DC retirement from the industry

Yet blow hards saying come here work for 20% less than everyone else in the industry. Do you realize how much of your career will be wasted when you add up losing 20% of over 100k + for 4-5 years? Not to mention seniority at a real airline?

Ati, abx, omni, atlas are not going to be the next UPS. They have already shown it's going to take almost a decade to develop any kind of farmed out flying.

Do yourself and fellow pilots a favor and go somewhere with pay rates, retirement and rules in place, Spirit, Jet blue, and even Frontier all will upgrade you in the same time frame and you can have some dignity know your carrier is competitive with pilot pay.

Or you can continue selling your sole to try and get airplanes at ATI.

Here comes the tribe to say how wrong I am and telling me to leave instead of taking a stand and fighting for what others already have for doing the same work!

Kalitta, Omni and a few others have certainly become viable careers in their own right.

It’s interesting that you complain about lagging 10%-20% behind the industry while listing Frontier as competitive pilot pay. Go on their threads, they’re complaining about the last TA being, yep you guesssed it 10%-20% less than Spirit and much less than Jetblue.

Look, there are lots of folks who don’t think a schedule of 4 on 3 off, fighting for a jumpseat to and from a crashpad is an improvement from positive space and guaranteed hotels. You have Kalitta senior CA’s making over $300k and several over $500k. Senior Omni CA’s are doing over $300k as well.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both career paths. If you don’t like where you’re at, leave. I’ll add one thing... ask some of your coworkers who came from regionals where they truly got crap pay and were abused daily how they like working at your company.... see, it’s all relative, and the grass is always greener. For me, I made more as a first year FO at Omni than I ever made as a regional CA. No crashpads, no commuting headaches, lots of time off in big enough chunks to actually take the family on vacations several times a year. Best kept secret in aviation in my opinion.

The other carriers will catch up in CBA aspects as the pilot shortage worsens and they can’t staff. They’ll either pay appropriately or close from all the cancelled flights.

tomgoodman
12-29-2018, 04:24 PM
Look at all these managers or management suck ups...

...blow hards saying come here....

As a new member of APC, you may be unaware that while you are free to criticize wages, working conditions, QOL, etc, you may not call other people names just because they disagree with you. Thanks.

dynap09
12-29-2018, 06:29 PM
Look at all these managers or management suck ups advertising the lowest paying jobs in the industry.

...

Ati, abx, omni, atlas are not going to be the next UPS.

...

Or you can continue selling your sole to try and get airplanes at ATI.



No one is saying ABX is the next UPS. Get a grip.

You do a good job illustrating what the trash talkers sound like on this board.

Insults (usually obviously bogus).
Spelling errors (soul not sole).
Idiocy (usually).

For folks looking to get to UPS / Fedex etc, a place like ATI or Omni or K4 is not a terrible step, especially if they are lucky and get an upgrade in a timely way. They get paid CA rates, build CA time, get type etc. Not everyone can go straight to UPS.

Pilots have different opinions, that doesn't make them management. ABX guys absolutely ripped the ATI guys for valuing home basing during last contract negotiations, but the ATI guys like home basing so kept it in. Or compare the number of legs and short turns a southwest pilot sometimes flies on the west coast - southwest has 9,000 pilots but might not be for everyone.

If you want to go to a plank union airline - check out ABX - they will and do throw crap / **** in their beds / **** on the customer / file harassment complaints / talk like management is the second coming of hitler.

nitefr8dog
12-30-2018, 05:30 AM
No one is saying ABX is the next UPS. Get a grip.

You do a good job illustrating what the trash talkers sound like on this board.

Insults (usually obviously bogus).
Spelling errors (soul not sole).
Idiocy (usually).

For folks looking to get to UPS / Fedex etc, a place like ATI or Omni or K4 is not a terrible step, especially if they are lucky and get an upgrade in a timely way. They get paid CA rates, build CA time, get type etc. Not everyone can go straight to UPS.

Pilots have different opinions, that doesn't make them management. ABX guys absolutely ripped the ATI guys for valuing home basing during last contract negotiations, but the ATI guys like home basing so kept it in. Or compare the number of legs and short turns a southwest pilot sometimes flies on the west coast - southwest has 9,000 pilots but might not be for everyone.

If you want to go to a plank union airline - check out ABX - they will and do throw crap / **** in their beds / **** on the customer / file harassment complaints / talk like management is the second coming of hitler.
If you work at ABX you know its true...if you don't then you have nothing to comment on. As far as our customers...our performance numbers speak for themselves...

Bungalow
12-30-2018, 10:32 AM
If you work at ABX you know its true...if you don't then you have nothing to comment on. As far as our customers...our performance numbers speak for themselves...

You on the other hand feel qualified to comment on just about every topic about every airline.
Perhaps you work at ABX, Atlas, ATI, K4 and Omni ?

Speaking about commenting on every topic, you should give it a bit of a rest.
Is beginning to look as though ď get a lifeĒ was made just for you.

nitefr8dog
12-30-2018, 12:24 PM
7You on the other hand feel qualified to comment on just about every topic about every airline.
Perhaps you work at ABX, Atlas, ATI, K4 and Omni ?

Speaking about commenting on every topic, you should give it a bit of a rest.
Is beginning to look as though “ get a life” was made just for you.

Said as you spend time to comment.... typical

No Land 3
12-30-2018, 05:16 PM
If I was a flight instructor with no 121 experience, nothing would stop me from accepting a job at ATI to bypass the regionals. 10 to 20% less in pay from Omni, K4, and others? Do you think a flight instructor gives a crap? Those others wouldn't hire him without much more experience, but certainly would after flying at ATI, if they ever wanted to leave.

Bungalow
12-31-2018, 04:36 AM
7

Said as you spend time to comment.... typical

I made one comment.

You, on the other hand, are on every thread, every day. And you never offer anything remotely interesting, let alone positive. Complains only. And then, you tell others they canít comment.
That is typical

And allow me to make a second comment. Your comments are bitter, resentful and angry.
That is typical.

nitefr8dog
12-31-2018, 08:19 AM
I made one comment.

You, on the other hand, are on every thread, every day. And you never offer anything remotely interesting, let alone positive. Complains only. And then, you tell others they canít comment.
That is typical

And allow me to make a second comment. Your comments are bitter, resentful and angry.
That is typical.


How bitter, angry and resentful was this?

Regionals with a flow through to a mainline pax carrier....stay away from ACMI. Cargo at Fedex or UPS when you have the qualifications is a whole different world than ACMI....you have a real future with unequaled benifits
pay and retirement.

You seem to have appointed yourself the comment police on an open discussion forum.
Maybe you are using this information on APC to make decisions on whether to by a new house or boat.....for me it's strictly entertainment. Lighten up Francis...

dynap09
12-31-2018, 10:11 AM
If I was a flight instructor with no 121 experience, nothing would stop me from accepting a job at ATI to bypass the regionals. 10 to 20% less in pay from Omni, K4, and others? Do you think a flight instructor gives a crap? Those others wouldn't hire him without much more experience, but certainly would after flying at ATI, if they ever wanted to leave.

Exactly.

Flying regionals not a terrible choice - but at envoy FO's start at $38/hr! and *18 year* CA's are making $110! And QOL is blah. They have grievances in on flow rates too.

In 5 years at a place like ATI you should be expecting something like $200/hr.

Parma3980
12-31-2018, 11:16 AM
During Recent line check the CA claimed were hiring 1-2 classes a month through 2019.

Just FYI to newbs looking to bypass the regionals and fly 767ís
Where do you apply. I went on ATIs home page and it doesnít show pilot openings to appyl for ?
Thanks

Riverside
12-31-2018, 11:39 AM
Where do you apply. I went on ATIs home page and it doesnít show pilot openings to appyl for ?
Thanks

They are doing you a favor.

Makinitup
12-31-2018, 11:46 AM
Where do you apply. I went on ATIs home page and it doesnít show pilot openings to appyl for ?
Thanks

Just click your heels together 3 times and the job is yours. Youíll be making the same wish that all the other ati pilots are making. The additional aircraft and Amazon flying belongs to ATSG and no one knows who will actually be flying these yet. Omni, ABX, or ati. The games are just beginning so I wouldnít be putting any credibility into what some check airman said on some flight to someone. Itís all made up.

midnightshuttle
12-31-2018, 03:04 PM
Where do you apply. I went on ATIs home page and it doesnít show pilot openings to appyl for ?
Thanks


Wait till after the holidays.
Btw most all of us here upgraded in 3yrs. Weíre all getting ETOPS qualed now. Looks like we will be going international for amazon

PLUS!!! UPS is needing added lift. Heard we are getting a contract from them as well..

motorclutch
12-31-2018, 05:39 PM
Sounds like your scab VP is feeding you a great line of sh$t!

Riverside
12-31-2018, 05:56 PM
Wait till after the holidays.
Btw most all of us here upgraded in 3yrs. Weíre all getting ETOPS qualed now. Looks like we will be going international for amazon

PLUS!!! UPS is needing added lift. Heard we are getting a contract from them as well..

Shoot...At K4 you could upgrade less than 3 years. Plus it's a respectable place to work.

Jurassic Jet
12-31-2018, 07:31 PM
Plus it's a respectable place to work.

Canít say that about ATI for sure.

motorclutch
12-31-2018, 07:40 PM
Connie Kalitta has never led by being on his knees. Canít say the same about ATSG.

Colt45
12-31-2018, 10:48 PM
Shoot...At K4 you could upgrade less than 3 years. Plus it's a respectable place to work.

I know people that did upgrade in less than 3, but I don’t think people hired tomorrow or even 6 months ago will have that opportunity anymore. We have hired a lot of people.

No Land 3
01-01-2019, 05:49 AM
I know people that did upgrade in less than 3, but I donít think people hired tomorrow or even 6 months ago will have that opportunity anymore. We have hired a lot of people.

Depends, they are gearing up the training for FME's, we could be getting a bunch more 747's in 2019.

Puck Hawg
01-01-2019, 06:03 AM
Depends, they are gearing up the training for FME's, we could be getting a bunch more 747's in 2019.

Isn't some of the hiring in anticipation of the 777's? I was told in the interview that they wanted to hire Captains with experience because "you'll be a Captain in two years." I know things change, and people want to do all they can to make their company more attractive, but I don't feel like K4 would outright lie to your face during an interview.

No Land 3
01-01-2019, 06:46 AM
Isn't some of the hiring in anticipation of the 777's? I was told in the interview that they wanted to hire Captains with experience because "you'll be a Captain in two years." I know things change, and people want to do all they can to make their company more attractive, but I don't feel like K4 would outright lie to your face during an interview.
Every rumor they told me became true. Since I was hired in 16, the company doubled. The 777's are a wildcard though, it's not Connie controlling that destiny, it's DHL. No one made any promises as to how many we might get, beyond one. However the rumors I've heard about more 747's I have no reason to doubt.

maxjet
01-01-2019, 03:39 PM
Isn't some of the hiring in anticipation of the 777's? I was told in the interview that they wanted to hire Captains with experience because "you'll be a Captain in two years." I know things change, and people want to do all they can to make their company more attractive, but I don't feel like K4 would outright lie to your face during an interview.

Pretty simple to do the math. We are training 16 every 3 weeks. There are 7 Captains per 747. 5 per 767/777. On the 747 we have 2 FOís for every CA. I donít see how a pilot hired today could expect to be a CA in 2 years. However, I have been wrong lots of times before.

Asci
01-01-2019, 04:47 PM
Pretty simple to do the math. We are training 16 every 3 weeks. There are 7 Captains per 747. 5 per 767/777. On the 747 we have 2 FOís for every CA. I donít see how a pilot hired today could expect to be a CA in 2 years. However, I have been wrong lots of times before.



Is this still an Ati hiring thread? Last I checked they had no 777ís and no 747ís. Asking for a friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Riverside
01-01-2019, 06:07 PM
Is this still an Ati hiring thread? Last I checked they had no 777ís and no 747ís. Asking for a friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who cares about ATI. Go to a better company.

vroll1800
01-01-2019, 08:01 PM
Is this still an Ati hiring thread? Last I checked they had no 777ís and no 747ís. Asking for a friend.


Friends don't let friends go to ATI. ;)

mukalel
01-02-2019, 11:25 AM
Pretty simple to do the math. We are training 16 every 3 weeks. There are 7 Captains per 747. 5 per 767/777. On the 747 we have 2 FOís for every CA. I donít see how a pilot hired today could expect to be a CA in 2 years. However, I have been wrong lots of times before.

Quite a number of people end up bypassing upgrade for their desired aircraft or bypassing upgrade all together. Plus slight attrition.. There could be a very good chance.

EndOfTimes
01-02-2019, 06:15 PM
Amazon doesnít contract directly with any of the carriers inside the ATSG Holding company. The contract is between Amazon and ATSG. Then the decision to assign airplanes is done internally within ATSG. No pilot group works directly for Amazon.

You are absolutely correct. The whipsaw decisions within ATSG are the domain of Joe Hete. Time will tell how he intends to manipulate 3 pilot groups.

midnightshuttle
01-03-2019, 05:22 PM
Is this still an Ati hiring thread? Last I checked they had no 777ís and no 747ís. Asking for a friend.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


For what its worth

Lots of us have picked up a quick 1k pic in the 76. Lots if guys are getting interviews

Look this isnt a career job. You can make good money as a captain and be out of here in 4yrs or less. The guys on here are lifers at ACMI. Just move through it and get your time. UPS seems to be giving us and atlas a lot of interviews right now. Guys are getting interviews everywhere though. Even 25yr senior ATI captains will tell you to get in and out.

Asiabound
01-07-2019, 08:25 AM
Kalitta, Omni and a few others have certainly become viable careers in their own right.

It’s interesting that you complain about lagging 10%-20% behind the industry while listing Frontier as competitive pilot pay. Go on their threads, they’re complaining about the last TA being, yep you guesssed it 10%-20% less than Spirit and much less than Jetblue.

Look, there are lots of folks who don’t think a schedule of 4 on 3 off, fighting for a jumpseat to and from a crashpad is an improvement from positive space and guaranteed hotels. You have Kalitta senior CA’s making over $300k and several over $500k. Senior Omni CA’s are doing over $300k as well.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both career paths. If you don’t like where you’re at, leave. I’ll add one thing... ask some of your coworkers who came from regionals where they truly got crap pay and were abused daily how they like working at your company.... see, it’s all relative, and the grass is always greener. For me, I made more as a first year FO at Omni than I ever made as a regional CA. No crashpads, no commuting headaches, lots of time off in big enough chunks to actually take the family on vacations several times a year. Best kept secret in aviation in my opinion.

The other carriers will catch up in CBA aspects as the pilot shortage worsens and they can’t staff. They’ll either pay appropriately or close from all the cancelled flights.

Problem with ACMI is stability; contracts bounce around and sometimes dry up, just like regionals. It is easy to do a look back and say if you were hired at Polar, Atlas, K4, or Omni in the early 2000s this career has been a decent success, but they are the exceptions, not the rule in ACMI. Meanwhile, guys who were hired at World (which definitely had a leading CBA in it's heyday), Gemini, RyanAir, ChampionAir, KittyHawk, Centurion, ATA, Airborne, Yellow Air Cargo, etc. have probably had to start over 2-3 times. It's like if you were lucky enough to buy 5,000 shares of AAPL in 2003 and have held since then, its easy to love and brag about the stock market to someone that has broken even.

Also to be fair Omni only got a good contract in the last year or so, and K4 two years before them, it has hardly been smooth sailing for them. It wasn't long ago, I bumped into an Omni FO considering quitting the industry because he was making 65k as 777 FO and was just "tired of it." Atlas is a mess now, but may turn out to be the beez-knees when they get a new CBA over there. This isn't a diss either, its just the facts as they stand. Everyone is high on the hog because the industry is booming, but it won't last forever, the retirements peak in a few more years and at some point there will be a recession again. It may it actually be a rocky road to be at the highest paid ACMI when that happens. I agree 100% that home-basing is awesome, but I'd pick up and move my family for a certain airline based in ATL for an extra 1-2 million in career earnings. Legacy all the way.

Good luck.

Cujo665
01-07-2019, 11:01 AM
Problem with ACMI is stability; contracts bounce around and sometimes dry up, just like regionals. It is easy to do a look back and say if you were hired at Polar, Atlas, K4, or Omni in the early 2000s this career has been a decent success, but they are the exceptions, not the rule in ACMI. Meanwhile, guys who were hired at World (which definitely had a leading CBA in it's heyday), Gemini, RyanAir, ChampionAir, KittyHawk, Centurion, ATA, Airborne, Yellow Air Cargo, etc. have probably had to start over 2-3 times. It's like if you were lucky enough to buy 5,000 shares of AAPL in 2003 and have held since then, its easy to love and brag about the stock market to someone that has broken even.

Also to be fair Omni only got a good contract in the last year or so, and K4 two years before them, it has hardly been smooth sailing for them. It wasn't long ago, I bumped into an Omni FO considering quitting the industry because he was making 65k as 777 FO and was just "tired of it." Atlas is a mess now, but may turn out to be the beez-knees when they get a new CBA over there. This isn't a diss either, its just the facts as they stand. Everyone is high on the hog because the industry is booming, but it won't last forever, the retirements peak in a few more years and at some point there will be a recession again. It may it actually be a rocky road to be at the highest paid ACMI when that happens. I agree 100% that home-basing is awesome, but I'd pick up and move my family for a certain airline based in ATL for an extra 1-2 million in career earnings. Legacy all the way.

Good luck.

Don’t disagree. Just said they’ve become a viable career path instead of a stepping stone. That doesn’t mean there aren’t better jobs out there. There are also those who’ll never be able to move into base; Everybody’s situations are different. For many, the QOL of never needing a crashpad and never having to jumpseat to/from work, and having huge blocks of days off all together outweigh the other choices. The new 767 pay scales at K4 & Omni are $20 an hour above UAL on the same equipment at 12 year longevity. (Using APC data) Throw some of that extra cash in the 401(k) and you’re about even, right? Point being there are trade offs with any job. Pick what works for you.

I do agree about ACMI being somewhat less stable contract wise. However, recessions hit mainlines also, so do bankruptcy contracts. Ask the thousands of guys AA furloughed, some of whom were lucky enough (cursed enough) to flow back to Captain jobs at Eagle for over a decade.

Even with the deceased contract stability, the real industry driver for the next 14 years will be pilot staffing. It’s nit going to be lowest bidder... it’s going to be who can actually fly the contracted flights. That takes pilots. Pilots are the new currency, not service contracts. The companies with the pilots to do the flying will get the contracts. We aren’t there yet, but 2019 is when the retirements really start to kick into high gear.

DC2Airmail
01-08-2019, 04:48 AM
Hello,

I am trying to apply to ATI, but FO job seems closed.
Is there window that will open anytime soon?

FlyAstarJets
01-08-2019, 08:22 AM
Hello,

I am trying to apply to ATI, but FO job seems closed.
Is there window that will open anytime soon?

ATI's Online Hiring Window, like other airlines (oh say like Omni's which you inquired about in another thread), open and close periodically. When HR decides it needs to freshen up the pool, they will announce it and someone will post it here.

DC2Airmail
01-08-2019, 08:48 AM
ATI's Online Hiring Window, like other airlines (oh say like Omni's which you inquired about in another thread), open and close periodically. When HR decides it needs to freshen up the pool, they will announce it and someone will post it here.


Thanks. I'll keep an eye out.

Asiabound
01-09-2019, 05:06 AM
Don’t disagree. Just said they’ve become a viable career path instead of a stepping stone. That doesn’t mean there aren’t better jobs out there. There are also those who’ll never be able to move into base; Everybody’s situations are different. For many, the QOL of never needing a crashpad and never having to jumpseat to/from work, and having huge blocks of days off all together outweigh the other choices. The new 767 pay scales at K4 & Omni are $20 an hour above UAL on the same equipment at 12 year longevity. (Using APC data) Throw some of that extra cash in the 401(k) and you’re about even, right? Point being there are trade offs with any job. Pick what works for you.

I do agree about ACMI being somewhat less stable contract wise. However, recessions hit mainlines also, so do bankruptcy contracts. Ask the thousands of guys AA furloughed, some of whom were lucky enough (cursed enough) to flow back to Captain jobs at Eagle for over a decade.

Even with the deceased contract stability, the real industry driver for the next 14 years will be pilot staffing. It’s nit going to be lowest bidder... it’s going to be who can actually fly the contracted flights. That takes pilots. Pilots are the new currency, not service contracts. The companies with the pilots to do the flying will get the contracts. We aren’t there yet, but 2019 is when the retirements really start to kick into high gear.

Legacies do better off in the long run than any ACMI ever will, AA was the exception rather than the rule. I still don't buy the shortage, there are a lot of retirements sure, but there will be pull back in a few years and there are a lot more things the majors can do to mitigate hiring, like scope relief and more codeshare. When things slow down again (and they will, trust me) starting FO pay will be back to $45k again at all the ACMIs.

To your point about United, the Omni pay scales might go higher but consider this... The pay isn't as much about hourly it's about the work rules. United pilots and the other Legacies have all sorts of pay protections along with trip rigs, duty rigs, the ability to add and drop trips without loss in pay, and vacation accrual rates that add so much more to the equation.

The 401k doesn't really matter as much at those places because they also pay a B fund. This means the company deposits money into a fund on your behalf, my understanding is about 12-15% of your pay per month/year, but nothing it taken out of your check. Free money basically. That's how these guys are getting their water cannon salute after 25+ years and walking away with an extra 1-2 million dollar check. To add sugar to it, they also have a normal 401k plan as well with the matching you are talking about. AFAIK all the ACMIs are offering 401k's only. To add even more sugar, FDX and UPS pay both of the above plus a pension. That's how the difference between ACMI/charter vs. UPS/FDX/Legacies equates in the millions even if the payscales aren't that far apart.

I'm well aware that its not easy to get hired at a Legacy either. Just saying the choice to jump is a no brainer if you do get the chance.

Safe travels.

motorclutch
01-09-2019, 05:34 AM
Hete will never pay another pension to an ATSG carrier. Plus, ATI never thought a pension was worth risking their home basing. As a side note, I will never touch my 401....I have a defined benefit plan. My kids thank you Joe!

Cujo665
01-11-2019, 02:47 PM
Legacies do better off in the long run than any ACMI ever will, AA was the exception rather than the rule. I still don't buy the shortage, there are a lot of retirements sure, but there will be pull back in a few years and there are a lot more things the majors can do to mitigate hiring, like scope relief and more codeshare. When things slow down again (and they will, trust me) starting FO pay will be back to $45k again at all the ACMIs.

To your point about United, the Omni pay scales might go higher but consider this... The pay isn't as much about hourly it's about the work rules. United pilots and the other Legacies have all sorts of pay protections along with trip rigs, duty rigs, the ability to add and drop trips without loss in pay, and vacation accrual rates that add so much more to the equation.

The 401k doesn't really matter as much at those places because they also pay a B fund. This means the company deposits money into a fund on your behalf, my understanding is about 12-15% of your pay per month/year, but nothing it taken out of your check. Free money basically. That's how these guys are getting their water cannon salute after 25+ years and walking away with an extra 1-2 million dollar check. To add sugar to it, they also have a normal 401k plan as well with the matching you are talking about. AFAIK all the ACMIs are offering 401k's only. To add even more sugar, FDX and UPS pay both of the above plus a pension. That's how the difference between ACMI/charter vs. UPS/FDX/Legacies equates in the millions even if the payscales aren't that far apart.

I'm well aware that its not easy to get hired at a Legacy either. Just saying the choice to jump is a no brainer if you do get the chance.

Safe travels.

My point is everybody’s situation is different. Many don’t have the years left to jump ship and start over at a legacy. With the increased pay and rule improvements Places like K4 and Omni are viable alternatives. K4 has dozens of CA’s over $400k this past year, several over $500k, and at least one that almost hit $600k. Even junior CA’s are doing $225k and up. With half the month off every month, never jumpseating, never crashpading..... it’s not the no brainer it used to be for many guys. If you’re an FO, or young, sure....
Each guy needs to research and decide for themselves based upon their own situation.
Safe travels to you too.

midnightshuttle
01-12-2019, 02:50 PM
My point is everybodyís situation is different. Many donít have the years left to jump ship and start over at a legacy. With the increased pay and rule improvements Places like K4 and Omni are viable alternatives. K4 has dozens of CAís over $400k this past year, several over $500k, and at least one that almost hit $600k. Even junior CAís are doing $225k and up. With half the month off every month, never jumpseating, never crashpading..... itís not the no brainer it used to be for many guys. If youíre an FO, or young, sure....
Each guy needs to research and decide for themselves based upon their own situation.
Safe travels to you too.

Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract

Riverside
01-12-2019, 02:59 PM
Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract

No, it's not. You guys just settled for less.

ACMItrash
01-12-2019, 05:36 PM
Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract

I doubt your union read anyone else's contract when they settled for work rules and retirement less than abx and less pay than K4. They could have pulled the TA but they didn't. Maybe you will elect sone reps who have the knowledge of where the industry really is.

motorclutch
01-12-2019, 06:47 PM
Sounds like heís listening to Scabby 1&2.

woog315
01-12-2019, 09:41 PM
Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract

I'll bet they do!

b707guy
01-13-2019, 06:01 AM
I've never heard any of our Union guys claiming that 400K, 500k, or even 600k is impossible at K4.


But let's have a quick math check.

Top rate at DOS+1 (I know, they're on DOS+2 now, but can't use those numbers until this time next year to make any claims) is $262.16, right? To have made $600k, that 12+ year 747 line captain would have to average 190 credit hours each month for 12 months. Pretty remarkable number there! But, impossible, even for only one? Who am I to say?

To have made $400k, that comes to 127 hours each month for 12 months. Also a pretty remarkable number, but certainly attainable in the 747.

But I am confident that it would be pert-near impossible for a K4 767 line pilot to have made $400k last year. Or this year, for that matter. Not while having a life as most of us would want it, anyway.

And, last I checked, ATI has less than 1 747.

Y'all just keep beating your chests. It's entertaining. And you have no idea what's going on over here.

Asiabound
01-13-2019, 06:22 AM
I've never heard any of our Union guys claiming that 400K, 500k, or even 600k is impossible at K4.


But let's have a quick math check.

Top rate at DOS+1 (I know, they're on DOS+2 now, but can't use those numbers until this time next year to make any claims) is $262.16, right? To have made $600k, that 12+ year 747 line captain would have to average 190 credit hours each month for 12 months. Pretty remarkable number there! But, impossible, even for only one? Who am I to say?

To have made $400k, that comes to 127 hours each month for 12 months. Also a pretty remarkable number, but certainly attainable in the 747.

But I am confident that it would be pert-near impossible for a K4 767 line pilot to have made $400k last year. Or this year, for that matter. Not while having a life as most of us would want it, anyway.

And, last I checked, ATI has less than 1 747.

Y'all just keep beating your chests. It's entertaining. And you have no idea what's going on over here.

Well said, who the hell wants to work that much anyways? This flying is hard enough as it is.

Jurassic Jet
01-13-2019, 06:43 AM
And you have no idea what's going on over here.


Getting some redesigned bag tags? :confused:

Cujo665
01-13-2019, 07:38 PM
Our MEC/union guys at ATI claim those numbers are impossible on the K4 contract

I’m just telling you what they’re saying they are doing. I haven’t seen a check stub. It was 747 CA’s doing it though.

Asiabound
01-13-2019, 10:58 PM
I’m just telling you what they’re saying they are doing. I haven’t seen a check stub. It was 747 CA’s doing it though.

I don't mean to sound condescending, but have you done long haul flying? It's brutal on the body, those numbers your posting are probably possible at Kalitta, but practical year over year? No way, that would put you in the grave quick, and your personal life would be virtually non existant. The guys that are making 600k a year are probably sim instructors or something, but that's an extremely hard gig to get. The 50 hours a month I average on the airplane here is the same or harder than the 80 hours when I flew domestic narrowbody.

dynap09
01-14-2019, 06:17 AM
Folks averaging 190 hrs likely need to have months over 200 hrs to balance out softer months. I'd be curious what one of these 200 hrs months even looks like from schedule standpoint. And these are senior 12 year guys to be getting top rate - that's serious commitment at that age to a ton of flying each and every month for the entire year.

Cujo665
01-14-2019, 02:26 PM
I don't mean to sound condescending, but have you done long haul flying? It's brutal on the body, those numbers your posting are probably possible at Kalitta, but practical year over year? No way, that would put you in the grave quick, and your personal life would be virtually non existant. The guys that are making 600k a year are probably sim instructors or something, but that's an extremely hard gig to get. The 50 hours a month I average on the airplane here is the same or harder than the 80 hours when I flew domestic narrowbody.

I average 25-48 hours a month long haul. This month is a fluke and I’ll only get about 12.

Asiabound
01-15-2019, 02:02 AM
I average 25-48 hours a month long haul. This month is a fluke and Iíll only get about 12.

That's awesome.

No Land 3
01-15-2019, 08:29 AM
Pay hours aren't the same as flight hours. If you are senior and get awarded an 80 hour line, working a day off automatically adds 4 hours on top of your guarantee. Any hours flown on a day off are at 1.5x and added on top of guarantee. Any flight hours flown above your guarantee on a day on are added on top of the guarantee.
Being awarded a high hour line and working a few off days a month is all it takes to bring home big numbers. Nearly everyone in the past year has broken guarantee each month. This year will be interesting, I have a feeling that OT will be harder to get.

Asiabound
01-16-2019, 06:24 AM
Pay hours aren't the same as flight hours. If you are senior and get awarded an 80 hour line, working a day off automatically adds 4 hours on top of your guarantee. Any hours flown on a day off are at 1.5x and added on top of guarantee. Any flight hours flown above your guarantee on a day on are added on top of the guarantee.
Being awarded a high hour line and working a few off days a month is all it takes to bring home big numbers. Nearly everyone in the past year has broken guarantee each month. This year will be interesting, I have a feeling that OT will be harder to get.

Even with those rules averaging 190 a month is still pretty tough at any ACMI.

nitefr8dog
01-16-2019, 11:05 AM
Even with those rules averaging 190 a month is still pretty tough at any ACMI.
Are we still talking ATI?....those are some hugh numbers if so...

No Land 3
01-16-2019, 01:53 PM
Are we still talking ATI?....those are some hugh numbers if so...

Some one from ATI was questioning pay at Kalitta, which brought on this discussion.
As for 190 hours a month, yes that would still be hard to do each month. I know of people that have had 200 hour months, but can't see it being consistently done unless a check airman or in the training department.

CA Deplorable
01-17-2019, 11:47 AM
While at K4 there were training 747 Capts making 300K or better, so with the new contract and with the growth tempo they are currently at...I would say highly plausible

AAfng
01-24-2019, 07:37 PM
Whats life like for someone a couple hours away from CVG? More days at home or not?

fr8dog61
01-27-2019, 07:27 AM
Been in the pool at ATI for 3 months. Any word (from someone on the inside at ATI) when classes might start?


Thanks in advance...

RH1228
01-27-2019, 10:11 AM
Been in the pool at ATI for 3 months. Any word (from someone on the inside at ATI) when classes might start?


Thanks in advance...

The official rumor is March classes.

fr8dog61
01-27-2019, 04:51 PM
Thanks, RH!

ACMItrash
01-29-2019, 01:34 AM
Thanks, RH!

Nothing like working for a company that demands you be the lowest paid in the industry! Enjoy those 17 day trips!

FlyAstarJets
01-29-2019, 09:08 AM
Nothing like working for a company that demands you be the lowest paid in the industry! Enjoy those 17 day trips!

ATI does not have 17 day trips.
ATI has 16 on, 12 off.
Company paid travel and hotel on day 1 and day 16 with ďtrueĒ Home Basing.

Some DHL lines are 7 on 7 off. Again, company paid travel and hotel ďinĒ on day 1 and ďoutĒ on day 7. If you happen to live in CVG, your line essentially turns into 5 days ďonĒ and 9 days ďoffĒ.

And as far as ďCompany demands we be paid the lowest in the industryĒ......
that would not be ATI.

152hvy
01-29-2019, 10:41 AM
Where is the application window or link?

FlyAstarJets
01-29-2019, 12:02 PM
Where is the application window or link?

airtransport.cc
> careers
> job portal

I donít believe the app window is open at the moment.

Hope this helps

t207
01-29-2019, 12:04 PM
And as far as ďCompany demands we be paid the lowest in the industryĒ......
that would not be ATI.[/QUOTE]

Just wondering who is the lowest paid in the industry?

T207

thesandbox
01-29-2019, 12:08 PM
ATI does not have 17 day trips.
ATI has 16 on, 12 off.
Company paid travel and hotel on day 1 and day 16 with ďtrueĒ Home Basing.

Some DHL lines are 7 on 7 off. Again, company paid travel and hotel ďinĒ on day 1 and ďoutĒ on day 7. If you happen to live in CVG, your line essentially turns into 5 days ďonĒ and 9 days ďoffĒ.

And as far as ďCompany demands we be paid the lowest in the industryĒ......
that would not be ATI.




and 16 work days in 28 is the equivalent of 17.3333333.... days in 30.

SO....thank you for clarifying that you actually work MORE than 17 days.

FlyAstarJets
01-29-2019, 01:39 PM
and 16 work days in 28 is the equivalent of 17.3333333.... days in 30.

SO....thank you for clarifying that you actually work MORE than 17 days.

ATIís year schedule is thirteen, 28 day bid periods per year.
You are comparing apples to oranges.

SO.... thank YOU for allowing me to clarify that for you.

nitefr8dog
01-29-2019, 02:58 PM
ATIís year schedule is thirteen, 28 day bid periods per year.
You are comparing apples to oranges.

SO.... thank YOU for allowing me to clarify that for you.
Still comes out to more than 17 days a month.....

FlyAstarJets
01-29-2019, 04:04 PM
Still comes out to more than 17 days a month.....

Well then thank goodness we donít work under your ďmonthĒ

And as I pointed out in the DHL system, Iíll take the 5 ďonĒ, 9 ďoffĒ
and you could call it mashed potatoes. No worries.
Same goes for the AMZ schedule, itíll still be 12 off.

nitefr8dog
01-29-2019, 04:56 PM
Well then thank goodness we donít work under your ďmonthĒ

And as I pointed out in the DHL system, Iíll take the 5 ďonĒ, 9 ďoffĒ
and you could call it mashed potatoes. No worries.
Same goes for the AMZ schedule, itíll still be 12 off.
Whew.....thank goodness. You still work 10 days more per year...( in the real world with 12 mos not 13 )

FlyAstarJets
01-30-2019, 06:12 AM
Whew.....thank goodness. You still work 10 days more per year...( in the real world with 12 mos not 13 )

Again, your argument is apples to oranges. Hence the need to keep qualifying you statements with ď...12 mos...Ē which means nothing to our scheduling process.

Iím done, this line of discussion has nothing to do with hiring.

thesandbox
01-30-2019, 07:03 AM
Again, your argument is apples to oranges. Hence the need to keep qualifying you statements with “...12 mos...” which means nothing to our scheduling process.

I’m done, this line of discussion has nothing to do with hiring.

Sure it does if a prospective pilot is actually calculating who actually has more days off per year.

Days per year is days per year....no apples or oranges to compare but if pilots can't do simple math then they get what they deserve

AAfng
01-30-2019, 07:05 AM
are you saying that local guys are working 5 on and 9 off? thats pretty damn good and also really hard to believe. If true, I will apply ASAP

abxflyr
01-30-2019, 09:01 AM
Rather than looking at a month, consider a yearly overview and it may give a different perspective. This is a cut/paste from a post I made on a different thread regarding days off.

Just for a simple example..days off.
K4 - 14/30 (14*12=168 off/year) ATI - 12/28 (12*13=156 days off/year) [ATI has a 13 bid cycle/year for those who do not know]. A 12 day difference or what could be a half a month or more of work, again based on view. We all know individualistically, i.e. position/seat, vacation, where you live, luck, etc.... one's mileage will vary. Not meant to be pro or con, you be the judge of that.

Of course, mileage will vary depending on the individual (at any carrier). I believe it to be accurate that if you were to live in CVG, with ATI, your days off would be higher. There are "devils" in any details....in this example, ATI would consider you to be in your own city; therefore no hotel or per-diem (within a certain mileage). For more accurate info you would have to ask an ATI'er directly.

The point to be made was the amount of days off, by contract, without individual perspective.

nitefr8dog
01-30-2019, 09:51 AM
Again, your argument is apples to oranges. Hence the need to keep qualifying you statements with ď...12 mos...Ē which means nothing to our scheduling process.

Iím done, this line of discussion has nothing to do with hiring.
You work more....and it might have everything to do with someone's hiring decision.

ACMItrash
01-30-2019, 10:18 AM
You work more....and it might have everything to do with someone's hiring decision.

K4 is the place to go if one wants to do acmi...most pay ....more days off than ati. Plus you dont work for atsg!

Airplaneflyer11
01-30-2019, 10:30 AM
K4 is the place to go if one wants to do acmi...most pay ....more days off than ati. Plus you dont work for atsg!

Not working for uncle Joe is a major key in that phrase!

152hvy
01-30-2019, 02:38 PM
airtransport.cc
> careers
> job portal

I donít believe the app window is open at the moment.

Hope this helps


Thanks,
I'll be waiting! :D

FlyAstarJets
01-30-2019, 04:41 PM
are you saying that local guys are working 5 on and 9 off? thats pretty damn good and also really hard to believe. If true, I will apply ASAP

We have some 7 on 7 off lines in the DHL system that, if you live in CVG, are basically 5 on 9 off because your travel days are spent at home (because you live there).
BUT, there are not a lot of these lines because of the small amount of DHL work we do. So please donít think these lines are the norm. And in a seniority based bidding system, they will go senior.

I hope this helps.

CaptDave
01-30-2019, 05:14 PM
...Iím just waiting for that window to open....

Airplaneflyer11
01-31-2019, 07:55 AM
...Iím just waiting for that window to open....

The window will open when Uncle Joe decides which pilot group he will leave in the dust next.... I mean grant the honor of additional flying....dude run from ATSG.

woog315
01-31-2019, 09:02 AM
Well then thank goodness we donít work under your ďmonthĒ

And as I pointed out in the DHL system, Iíll take the 5 ďonĒ, 9 ďoffĒ
and you could call it mashed potatoes. No worries.
Same goes for the AMZ schedule, itíll still be 12 off.

This is how ATSG is able to sell bad math and bad contracts to ATI, if anyone is wondering. We've got some real alternative facts here when we're debating the definition of a month. "I only work 16 days a month, but my year has 13 months in it!". Wow....

AAfng
01-31-2019, 12:02 PM
We have some 7 on 7 off lines in the DHL system that, if you live in CVG, are basically 5 on 9 off because your travel days are spent at home (because you live there).
BUT, there are not a lot of these lines because of the small amount of DHL work we do. So please donít think these lines are the norm. And in a seniority based bidding system, they will go senior.

I hope this helps.

As i figured, bs

No Land 3
01-31-2019, 04:47 PM
K4 actually gets quite a few more days off, if you are astute, and bid strategically. We are able to turn two weeks of vacation into almost two months off. Many of our pilots work 10 months. Or you can work those two weeks at 1.5 pay.
However, if you are all about staying home, try Spirit. Live on base and bidding reserve can be a good gig for that.

nitefr8dog
02-01-2019, 02:46 AM
K4 actually gets quite a few more days off, if you are astute, and bid strategically. We are able to turn two weeks of vacation into almost two months off. Many of our pilots work 10 months. Or you can work those two weeks at 1.5 pay.
However, if you are all about staying home, try Spirit. Live on base and bidding reserve can be a good gig for that.
That's pretty comment in freight with basically 2 weeks on and 2 weeks off. At least our schedules have been that way forever. Bid back to back 2 weeks off you are at a month...add 2 wks vac and you are at 2 months. Or 5 wks off 4 times a yr using vac. Takes a lot of misery out of the job.

FlyAstarJets
02-07-2019, 09:26 AM
The First Officer application window at ATI will reopen on Friday, February 8th and will remain open until Monday, February 18th. Please feel free to forward on to all interested parties. The link to the Careers page is,
www.airtransport-jobs.com

Hope this helps

FAJ

CaptDave
02-07-2019, 09:42 AM
The First Officer application window at ATI will reopen on Friday, February 8th and will remain open until Monday, February 18th. Please feel free to forward on to all interested parties. The link to the Careers page is,
www.airtransport-jobs.com

Hope this helps

FAJ

Sweet......... :)

Bidderswede
02-07-2019, 11:37 AM
The First Officer application window at ATI will reopen on Friday, February 8th and will remain open until Monday, February 18th. Please feel free to forward on to all interested parties. The link to the Careers page is,
www.airtransport-jobs.com

Hope this helps

FAJ

Gone through the thread without finding an answer to this question.
Maybe i missed it...
Anyways...
Is the pay scale on the APC website updated and accurate?
If so, what can you realistically expect to make the 1st year as FO including per diem?
Thank you!

Asci
02-07-2019, 11:57 AM
Gone through the thread without finding an answer to this question.

Maybe i missed it...

Anyways...

Is the pay scale on the APC website updated and accurate?

If so, what can you realistically expect to make the 1st year as FO including per diem?

Thank you!



Itís accurate. $60k salary and ~$9k in per diem. Salary goes up 5% end of March. You can make a bit more if youíre willing to be gone more than 16 out of 28 days and thereís flying available, but itís really not worth it unless youíre single with no kids. Second yr will get you over $100k including per diem.


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FlyAstarJets
02-07-2019, 12:07 PM
Gone through the thread without finding an answer to this question.
Maybe i missed it...
Anyways...
Is the pay scale on the APC website updated and accurate?
If so, what can you realistically expect to make the 1st year as FO including per diem?
Thank you!

The scale is current. But on March 21íst, the first contractual anniversary pay bump kicks in which will be $79.92 for new hires.
New hires are paid that rate starting day one of class. New hires hotel and travel is paid also.
Realistically, I would only count on guarantee.

Hope this helps.
FAJ

Thanks Asci! You type faster than me :)

Bidderswede
02-07-2019, 12:47 PM
Itís accurate. $60k salary and ~$9k in per diem. Salary goes up 5% end of March. You can make a bit more if youíre willing to be gone more than 16 out of 28 days and thereís flying available, but itís really not worth it unless youíre single with no kids. Second yr will get you over $100k including per diem.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you.
I'm married and our kid is grown and out of the house.
Pretty sure we can handle the first year pay with some adjustments.
Have plenty of Hours, but lacking transport category time including crew time.
This would be a good opportunity for me to gain such experience.
Currently flying a small jet and on call pretty much 24/7. Been doing that for the last 5 years and it's getting OLD.

Bidderswede
02-07-2019, 12:48 PM
Thanks FAJ!

TrustG2004
02-07-2019, 01:20 PM
How much flight can you expect to log @ ATI per year?

nightsky2
02-07-2019, 01:29 PM
How much flight can you expect to log @ ATI per year?

One year look back from today, I flew 687 hours. That is high. Most won't crack 500. I needed the extra. The real difference is the additional $ you can make if you time your extra flying right.

FlyAstarJets
02-07-2019, 02:48 PM
How much flight can you expect to log @ ATI per year?

Nightsky has the right of it.

Personally for 2018, I did 571. Of that were 4 weeks in the DHL system and the rest was in the AMZ System. Some OT pickup and rescue calls in there. My demographics are middle of the pack in seat.

ACMItrash
02-08-2019, 02:31 AM
Tell them about the 2-4 hour airport sits in the middle of the night!!!!

nightsky2
02-08-2019, 05:41 PM
Tell them about the 2-4 hour airport sits in the middle of the night!!!!

It's ACMI. That's part of what you sign up for. Still beats 6 leg days with reduced rest 5 days in a row. A lot of trips are 1 and done or 2 and done with decent layovers. 20+ hrs.

CaptDave
02-08-2019, 07:49 PM
Got mine sent in this AM. Time for more waiting and lots of hoping. :fingerscrossed:

Bidderswede
02-08-2019, 10:00 PM
Got mine sent in this AM. Time for more waiting and lots of hoping. :fingerscrossed:

Started the application just to find out that I'm not qualified due to being a permanent resident and not a U.S citizen...😣
Really bummed...
Good luck!

tiredofjrm
02-09-2019, 05:59 AM
Started the application just to find out that I'm not qualified due to being a permanent resident and not a U.S citizen...😣
Really bummed...
Good luck!

They cannot discriminate. If youíre legal to work, then they have to accept the application.

nitefr8dog
02-09-2019, 10:06 AM
They cannot discriminate. If youíre legal to work, then they have to accept the application.
Now that is funny......sort of like they would have to hire a blind pilot or it would be discrimination? He either meets the job requirements or he doesn't.

152hvy
02-09-2019, 02:21 PM
ATI has govt contract (DOD), requiring secret clearance. That's probably why they want a US Citizen.

hubbs
02-09-2019, 04:21 PM
Started the application just to find out that I'm not qualified due to being a permanent resident and not a U.S citizen...😣
Really bummed...
Good luck!

Have you applied to Omni? They allow LPRs.

Bidderswede
02-10-2019, 10:58 AM
ATI has govt contract (DOD), requiring secret clearance. That's probably why they want a US Citizen.

Yes it is.
Had to answer NO, when asked about ability obtaining secret clearance on the application.

Bidderswede
02-10-2019, 10:58 AM
Have you applied to Omni? They allow LPRs.

Waiting for their window to open.
Then I will.

wings19
02-11-2019, 09:00 AM
Any word on the next class at ATI?
I have been hearing March, but they better get busy, as more than 3-days notice to my current company would be great...

nightsky2
02-11-2019, 12:37 PM
Any word on the next class at ATI?
I have been hearing March, but they better get busy, as more than 3-days notice to my current company would be great...

Just be ready. They called me on a Wednesday afternoon for a Monday 0800 class. I could have declined and given my regional a 2 week notice. That would have become months before they ran another class. I drove to my base on Thursday, turned in all my stuff, told them I was sorry about not being able to give them the 2 week and was in class early on Monday.

nightsky2
02-11-2019, 12:42 PM
wings19, One more thing, scuttlebutt around ATI is next class in March some time.

Riverside
02-11-2019, 12:45 PM
Just be ready. They called me on a Wednesday afternoon for a Monday 0800 class. I could have declined and given my regional a 2 week notice. That would have become months before they ran another class. I drove to my base on Thursday, turned in all my stuff, told them I was sorry about not being able to give them the 2 week and was in class early on Monday.

That's the type of person ATI loves to hire 😒

wings19
02-11-2019, 02:49 PM
Just be ready. They called me on a Wednesday afternoon for a Monday 0800 class. I could have declined and given my regional a 2 week notice. That would have become months before they ran another class. I drove to my base on Thursday, turned in all my stuff, told them I was sorry about not being able to give them the 2 week and was in class early on Monday.

Yep, they called me on very short notice for the last September class.
I had commitments and couldn't make the class on such short notice.
Looking forward to getting back to the 75/76 soon.
Thanks for the two posts

dynap09
02-11-2019, 02:54 PM
They cannot discriminate. If you’re legal to work, then they have to accept the application.

Interesting.

I thought ABX was part of CRAF.

So you have a russian or chinese citizen on a legal visa, ABX has to take them? Why would CRAF require that? This would seem to be complicated if CRAF is activated with respect to a conflict with russia or china on the other side to say the least!

I learn something all the time!

blewsideup
02-11-2019, 03:10 PM
I hope thats not the case on the next class, I would hate to "hard quit"

hubbs
02-11-2019, 08:00 PM
Interesting.

I thought ABX was part of CRAF.

So you have a russian or chinese citizen on a legal visa, ABX has to take them? Why would CRAF require that? This would seem to be complicated if CRAF is activated with respect to a conflict with russia or china on the other side to say the least!

I learn something all the time!

SWA, AA, DAL and UAL are all, amongst others, participants in the CRAF program.

wjcandee
02-11-2019, 09:06 PM
Legal permanent residents can get something that is similar to a secret clearance. It is called something else. I don't know whether that would be acceptable or not. Same with the requirement for u.s. passport, which is effectively a requirement that a person be a citizen. I don't know what the bona fide occupational qualification is for that. Also seems weird to me that Omni could take legal permanent residents, given that it flies troops on Military missions, but ATI does not. Maybe the person posting could make a more specific inquiry to the right people.

atpcliff
02-12-2019, 06:32 AM
I don't know if Atlas is in CRAF (I assume they are), but they fly mil pax and cargo, and have tonnes of green card legal resident pilots.

Bidderswede
02-12-2019, 12:22 PM
Legal permanent residents can get something that is similar to a secret clearance. It is called something else. I don't know whether that would be acceptable or not. Same with the requirement for u.s. passport, which is effectively a requirement that a person be a citizen. I don't know what the bona fide occupational qualification is for that. Also seems weird to me that Omni could take legal permanent residents, given that it flies troops on Military missions, but ATI does not. Maybe the person posting could make a more specific inquiry to the right people.

I did read somewhere that a legal resident could get the security clearance, but seems like a headache for the company to go through the process.
I'll take a deeper look.
I still would have to answer NO on that question on ATI application and pretty sure that was the question that caused my application issue...

WearyEyed
02-12-2019, 12:28 PM
I have a buddy who interviewed supposedly successfully at ATI in the second half of 2018. Since being told that he passed the interview he has not heard anything from ATI. How long is it taking most people from interview to class date? Is there a large pool of pilots?

Bidderswede
02-12-2019, 12:43 PM
I did read somewhere that a legal resident could get the secret clearance, but seems like a headache for the company to go through the process.
I'll take a deeper look.
I still would have to answer NO on that question on ATI application and pretty sure that was the question that caused my application issue...

After more digging I found this on immigration website.
"You can apply for jobs that require security clearance and only the permanent residents and the citizens of the United States, can get such clearance. This shows that this resident card provides more job opportunities."

It seems like you get that status after 5yrs as a legal resident.
Hopefully I can re-apply and successfully complete the application now...?

tiredofjrm
02-12-2019, 03:14 PM
They can only legally ask if you have a legal right to work in the US. Anything else is discrimination.

nightsky2
02-12-2019, 05:19 PM
I have a buddy who interviewed supposedly successfully at ATI in the second half of 2018. Since being told that he passed the interview he has not heard anything from ATI. How long is it taking most people from interview to class date? Is there a large pool of pilots?

I interviewed in June, was called at the end Sept for an Oct class. Only HR knows how big the pool is and they don't talk. I was told that if you did not get a rejection notice after the interview you were in the pool.

Buzjob
02-13-2019, 04:03 AM
I interviewed in June, was called at the end Sept for an Oct class. Only HR knows how big the pool is and they don't talk. I was told that if you did not get a rejection notice after the interview you were in the pool.

I interviewed March 2018 and started the end of July. If he didn't get a no thank you, tell him to hang in there. This is a fun place to work.

BurritoBeach
02-13-2019, 10:20 AM
I was told directly by HR that there are about 30 in the pool. Possibly less than that by now if people have taken other jobs in the meantime, but it should still be about that number.

TrustG2004
02-13-2019, 05:56 PM
I was told directly by HR that there are about 30 in the pool. Possibly less than that by now if people have taken other jobs in the meantime, but it should still be about that number.

Any idea what the average class size is?

Asci
02-14-2019, 07:46 AM
Any idea what the average class size is?



6-12


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ACMItrash
02-14-2019, 05:18 PM
6-12


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


12 if they all show up or 6 smart ones who decline and go to K4 or a passenger carrier ....pick one they all pay more!

Asci
02-14-2019, 06:27 PM
12 if they all show up or 6 smart ones who decline and go to K4 or a passenger carrier ....pick one they all pay more!



I doubt any pilot sees an ACMI as their dream job. Sometimes you just make a move at the wrong time and end up stuck somewhere and get comfortable. And I wouldnít say ATI is the best ACMI for most people but for some it might be a good fit. Especially if you donít want to fly around the world for 2 weeks at a time (think 20 somethings with kids who still think their first marriage is gonna work out). If you live in or near the hub or one of the west coast amazon airports you could be home every 2-3 days for ~36 hours and still get two weeks off a month (all subject to change at the drop of a hat). And yeah any legacy or even major will be better in the long run. But hey if you have all the check marks to go to a legacy and they arenít beating down your door and your airline doesnít have flow... grab some heavy time with a fun group of pilots. And if ATI calls you and 3 months later k4 calls and thatís what you want just bail and go there. You will make more money and gain international experience and look better to brown or purple where you could end up flying international right out of OE.
Either one you will make more as an FO than a regional captain and not work nearly as hard.
Both have grown a lot recently and even with continued growth upgrade times have to increase. Iíd make sure you have that magical 1000 TPIC before you go to any ACMI.


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Wings1856
02-16-2019, 05:10 PM
^^^^ Most reasoned post on the ACMI realm ever. Good job!

Bidderswede
02-16-2019, 06:44 PM
Please don't take this as a "cry me a river"post.
Due to being married and having to provide for my family when I started my pilot career, a lot of options to enhance my resume by going to the regionals was not an option due to poor pay.
This was back in the early 2000 btw.
I did instruct for about 2 years. Then I was able to get hired as a cargo 135 PIC.
Did that for a couple of years to build multi time. Then I was lacking turbine time, so I applied and got a job flying a BE-99 up north.
Family stayed in Texas.
Wife gave me an ultimatum saying continue your career up there, or come back to Texas and stay married. Flew up there about 8 months and accrued 250 hrs of multi turbo prop.
Moved back home while the 2008 recession was going on. Unable to find ANY pilot jobs.
Worked odd jobs to pay bills for a while.
After a couple of years not flying, I was lucky to find a job as a 135 cargo pilot again.
Now I'm lacking Jet hours. Paid for my type rating to get hired locally as a Citation Mustang pilot for a small local 135 charter.
Been flying there single pilot for 5 yrs racking up about 1400 PIC jet time.
And now I'm here...
Plenty of hours, but again short on Crew, 121, and International experience.
Filled out application for ATI, and would be super happy to work at a company flying International heavy equipment to improve my resume!
The thing is...
They might not even consider me due to the lack of hours mentioned above..😔
I feel I have put in my time and effort to improve my resume as much as possible considering my situation. ( financially not able to have flown for the regionals and a wife not wanting to move where better opportunities might have been found).

Is the lack of experience they are looking for going to be a show stopper, and if so,
What would be some recommendations for me to move forward..?
TIA

Bidderswede
02-16-2019, 06:54 PM
I don't know if Atlas is in CRAF (I assume they are), but they fly mil pax and cargo, and have tonnes of green card legal resident pilots.

Can't afford their 4 month at $1600/month and 1st year pay after that.
I DID find out though that I can get the security clearance needed due to me being a permanent resident for 5+ years.
Thank you though.

NeverHome
02-17-2019, 12:57 PM
Please don't take this as a "cry me a river"post.
Due to being married and having to provide for my family when I started my pilot career, a lot of options to enhance my resume by going to the regionals was not an option due to poor pay.
This was back in the early 2000 btw.
I did instruct for about 2 years. Then I was able to get hired as a cargo 135 PIC.
Did that for a couple of years to build multi time. Then I was lacking turbine time, so I applied and got a job flying a BE-99 up north.
Family stayed in Texas.
Wife gave me an ultimatum saying continue your career up there, or come back to Texas and stay married. Flew up there about 8 months and accrued 250 hrs of multi turbo prop.
Moved back home while the 2008 recession was going on. Unable to find ANY pilot jobs.
Worked odd jobs to pay bills for a while.
After a couple of years not flying, I was lucky to find a job as a 135 cargo pilot again.
Now I'm lacking Jet hours. Paid for my type rating to get hired locally as a Citation Mustang pilot for a small local 135 charter.
Been flying there single pilot for 5 yrs racking up about 1400 PIC jet time.
And now I'm here...
Plenty of hours, but again short on Crew, 121, and International experience.
Filled out application for ATI, and would be super happy to work at a company flying International heavy equipment to improve my resume!
The thing is...
They might not even consider me due to the lack of hours mentioned above..😔
I feel I have put in my time and effort to improve my resume as much as possible considering my situation. ( financially not able to have flown for the regionals and a wife not wanting to move where better opportunities might have been found).

Is the lack of experience they are looking for going to be a show stopper, and if so,
What would be some recommendations for me to move forward..?
TIA

In the future, ditch the wife. If she isnít willing to stick by you and support you so you can support your family (her included), than she isnít worth it. Sounds like you have really busted your rear trying to keep both going. I did that and nearly lost both. I was fortunate to have at least salvaged my career. Marriage went into the tank and now several years divorced, Im kicking myself for not having separated sooner.

Just my .02, best of luck

LRSRanger
02-17-2019, 01:10 PM
I thought the same thing, I just didnt want to be the one to say it. I told mine she could stick with me or not, but this is what I'm going to do, with you or without you. It was a tough few years, but we somehow stuck it out. We are doing awesome now, but even if she had left I'd still be doing awesome by myself, with a pocket full of cash, flying big jets and looking for a newer model. Life is too short waste making yourself miserable just to keep someone from leaving you.

In the future, ditch the wife. If she isnít willing to stick by you and support you so you can support your family (her included), than she isnít worth it. Sounds like you have really busted your rear trying to keep both going. I did that and nearly lost both. I was fortunate to have at least salvaged my career. Marriage went into the tank and now several years divorced, Im kicking myself for not having separated sooner.

Just my .02, best of luck

No Land 3
02-18-2019, 12:46 AM
Career must come before family. If you cannot support yourself, you cannot support anyone else.

atpcliff
02-18-2019, 06:08 AM
Career must come before family. If you cannot support yourself, you cannot support anyone else.

Are you YOU?
Or, are you your JOB?

NeverHome
02-18-2019, 06:27 AM
Are you YOU?
Or, are you your JOB?

Not to answer for that guy, but I am me. Not my job. However, without a job I cannot feed myself or my family. I will cease to exist if I do not rectify that in a timely manner. So I need a job. My family needs me to have a job so they can eat too.

Now if the wife develops a bad attitude and presents an ultimatum, than said pilot is in a bind. Sacrifice current job (and personal dreams) for wife or ditch the b**** and maintain ones self. Here is the kicker: sacrife FOR the wife and still there is a high probability that she will divorce you anyway. Why? Because the job really isnít the issue.

So be smart and protect yourself. If your wife really is vested in you than she will stick by you untill the end (death do us part). If she wonít stick by you than I guess your marriage vows werenít worth the toilet paper a trucker utilized a bit ago.

RiverRnr5
02-18-2019, 09:05 AM
Anyone aware of the competitive hiring times and qualifications at ATI these days?? Thanks!

freighthound
02-18-2019, 01:47 PM
I hope no one is looking on APC for marital advice.

FlyAstarJets
02-18-2019, 01:51 PM
Anyone aware of the competitive hiring times and qualifications at ATI these days?? Thanks!

Past successful candidates experience has been all over the place. So don't feel like you have to Chuck Yeager times.

ACMItrash
02-18-2019, 04:53 PM
It would be a good study to see how many acmi pilots end up in divorce for being gone 17 days in a row!!!

Bidderswede
02-18-2019, 06:03 PM
I hope no one is looking on APC for marital advice.

Didn't mean my post to turn into that...
Was trying to explain why I wasn't able to go to regionals and why I am short on those hours..(121 and crew).
And at the time my wife was making more $ than me on top of other issues that i didn't explain in that post.
Been married almost 20 years now, and with me being the one making most of the $ now, and have the better chance of making a better living for us, she is standing behind me when/if opportunities will come around.

Bidderswede
02-18-2019, 06:11 PM
Past successful candidates experience has been all over the place. So don't feel like you have to Chuck Yeager times.

That doesn't really answer the question..
I'm guessing he's looking for a different answer, as am I.
But according to you, they will hire anything from a CFI to a captain with heavy and International experience..

No Land 3
02-19-2019, 03:41 PM
Are you YOU?
Or, are you your JOB?

Find me a pilot who doesn't identify with their career choice. I've been dirt poor most of my working life and I found a good wife who stuck with me in those hard times.
I will never go back to being dirt poor and will always make the decision that brings in the money, even if it means family hardship. And I can tell you nothing is worse than having your career taken away from you, to lose your income, self worth, and means to support ones self. You are a flipping idiot if you let those things slip away, thinking it is better for the family! Have you ever woken up from a dream, and found life to be the nightmare? Try that for a few years.

atpcliff
02-19-2019, 07:15 PM
Find me a pilot who doesn't identify with their career choice. I've been dirt poor most of my working life and I found a good wife who stuck with me in those hard times.
I will never go back to being dirt poor and will always make the decision that brings in the money, even if it means family hardship. And I can tell you nothing is worse than having your career taken away from you, to lose your income, self worth, and means to support ones self. You are a flipping idiot if you let those things slip away, thinking it is better for the family! Have you ever woken up from a dream, and found life to be the nightmare? Try that for a few years.

Things in Our America are very negatively skewed because of the emphasis on money. There are plenty of poor people who are happy, and plenty of very wealthy people who are unhappy, because they want more money.

Note: I read here recently of a US pilot with a working wife. They moved from the US to Denmark, which has much higher income taxes than in Our America. They are both working in Denmark (as they were in the US), and they now have substantially more disposable income every month, than they did in the US. AND, their kids will all graduate from college, with ZERO student debt, which would not have happened had they stayed in Our America.

No Land 3
02-20-2019, 04:55 AM
Things in Our America are very negatively skewed because of the emphasis on money. There are plenty of poor people who are happy, and plenty of very wealthy people who are unhappy, because they want more money.

Note: I read here recently of a US pilot with a working wife. They moved from the US to Denmark, which has much higher income taxes than in Our America. They are both working in Denmark (as they were in the US), and they now have substantially more disposable income every month, than they did in the US. AND, their kids will all graduate from college, with ZERO student debt, which would not have happened had they stayed in Our America.
I live in Florida for a reason and it has nothing to do with winter weather. If I lived in NYC or SFO, I would feel substantially poorer.
One can make the argument that you get more bang for your buck with your tax money in Europe, especially when living in a high tax state. My wife wants to live in Germany, told her to divorce me and marry a German.

ACMItrash
02-20-2019, 10:30 PM
Anyone aware of the competitive hiring times and qualifications at ATI these days?? Thanks!


There is no such thing as competitive time when applying at ATI or any ACMI because they will hire anyone because hardly anyone with sense applies to an ACMI. Regionals have signing bonuses and quick upgrades, nationals such as Spirit, Jet Blue, Allegiant have quick upgrades and better retirement than AMCI. But wait at ATI you get a a free ticket to work on what should be your day off. All other carriers you get more time off and a no fault commute clause. So what are you waiting for apply today!

NeverHome
02-21-2019, 02:18 AM
There is no such thing as competitive time when applying at ATI or any ACMI because they will hire anyone because hardly anyone with sense applies to an ACMI. Regionals have signing bonuses and quick upgrades, nationals such as Spirit, Jet Blue, Allegiant have quick upgrades and better retirement than AMCI. But wait at ATI you get a a free ticket to work on what should be your day off. All other carriers you get more time off and a no fault commute clause. So what are you waiting for apply today!

Interesting how many people knock on ATI. Especially since it is under ACMI. I guess that is to be expected at any carrier. But the part that has me absolutely shocked is how I read so many people talking about regionals as if they are a good place to be! Since when did regionals become the hero? Same with the LCCs? They used to be the destination of those whose career didnít pan out. Sure the pay is better than before but now everyone is talking about how amazing they are!

Call me naive but what makes LCCs and regionals better than ATI? ABX sure I get that, but ATI?

fr8dog61
02-21-2019, 07:01 AM
I find it interesting all the griping. I interviewed at ATI in October, and was subsequently placed in the hiring pool, and I am awaiting a class. My interview group was full of unhappy regional pilots. (me included I suppose if you count a regional freight feeder) Do you really think the regionals have a decent QOL? Maybe if you are 28 and single, but not for me. I know 3 people at ATI, and they are all happy. My present employer had a past reputation as a good place to work from a QOL standpoint, but pay was lacking. I did not need the pay (wife retired from training department at a big freight company) and since I was at our largest base, I had excellent QOL, esp after gaining some seniority. Now we are making decent money for the job we used to do, but QOL sucks as we are getting drafted to work our weeks off. Many guys with a lot of time here who were lifers, (me too) are leaving BC of QOL. ATI seems good deal to me. I will lose pay the first year but 16 on 14 off seems like a decent deal to me as I am no longer 3 weeks on 1 week off home most of the time, but the same schedule and on the road most off the time. I don't have much time left (58 years old) and it seems like it would be fun to fly a 76 before I hang it up. All jobs have good and bad, its time for me to try something new.

b707guy
02-21-2019, 08:34 AM
But wait at ATI you get a a free ticket to work on what should be your day off. All other carriers you get more time off and a no fault commute clause.


One more time. All of our trips begin with a day dedicated to travel. If you have a 16-day trip, day 1 is a travel day. If you have a 4-day trip, day 1 is a travel day. Whether you need it or not. If you don't need it, it's more time off for you. And if the trip ends after 1600Z, the following day is a travel day as well. Neither travel day counts as any of your minimum of 12 days off. Many of our lines have 13 days off. Some have more. We don't do much hub-based flying, so many/most of our trips start and end all over the place. That's why these travel days are vital to our QOL, as are the purchased tickets.



If you live on the wrong coast (generally, east coast base airport for west coast flying), it is possible to bid yourself into traveling on a day off at the beginning. Almost impossible to bid yourself into traveling on a day off at the end of a trip. If your seniority doesn't permit getting a line, or if all that's left are trips that might require you to travel on a day off and you don't want to do that, then you can very easily hold either a reserve line or remain on or stay on Open Reserve. Many senior folk opt for reserve lines because of the flexibility they generally afford. Either way, you do not travel outside of your reserve days, unless you want to for whatever reason.

No Land 3
02-21-2019, 10:37 AM
Many of those who say a regional is better, either never worked at one, have forgotten, or currently work at one particular ACMI.
Spirit, Frontier, and Jet Blue all employ happy friends of mine, especially since their new contracts. One friend at Spirit lives on base and bids reserve. He is home enough to get emails warning him he needs three takeoffs and landings to stay current.
If you hated commuting at a previous job, you will fall in love with true home basing. 100% ignore those that say otherwise.

727CA
02-21-2019, 11:36 AM
they will hire anything from a CFI to a captain with heavy and International experience..

All the airlines seem to be doing this now. Partly due to the pilot shortage but also because HR has become heavily involved in the hiring process. AA hires people from all experience and backgrounds. low time, seasoned high time pilots, ex flight attendants, even saw one of them wearing a turban.

Bidderswede
02-21-2019, 02:43 PM
All the airlines seem to be doing this now. Partly due to the pilot shortage but also because HR has become heavily involved in the hiring process. AA hires people from all experience and backgrounds. low time, seasoned high time pilots, ex flight attendants, even saw one of them wearing a turban.

Been applying and updating to SWA, United, AA, FedEx, UPS etc.
5600 TT
5500 PIC
1300 PIC Jet
Crickets from ALL of them.
The only "airline" with interview invite is Sun Country, but can't afford to work there...
So, I guess the "low" timers that you speak of that airlines are hiring, have something else besides just an application up their sleeve...?
Tons of LOR's, buddies on the HR team...idk..

nitefr8dog
02-21-2019, 03:04 PM
I find it interesting all the griping. I interviewed at ATI in October, and was subsequently placed in the hiring pool, and I am awaiting a class. My interview group was full of unhappy regional pilots. (me included I suppose if you count a regional freight feeder) Do you really think the regionals have a decent QOL? Maybe if you are 28 and single, but not for me. I know 3 people at ATI, and they are all happy. My present employer had a past reputation as a good place to work from a QOL standpoint, but pay was lacking. I did not need the pay (wife retired from training department at a big freight company) and since I was at our largest base, I had excellent QOL, esp after gaining some seniority. Now we are making decent money for the job we used to do, but QOL sucks as we are getting drafted to work our weeks off. Many guys with a lot of time here who were lifers, (me too) are leaving BC of QOL. ATI seems good deal to me. I will lose pay the first year but 16 on 14 off seems like a decent deal to me as I am no longer 3 weeks on 1 week off home most of the time, but the same schedule and on the road most off the time. I don't have much time left (58 years old) and it seems like it would be fun to fly a 76 before I hang it up. All jobs have good and bad, its time for me to try something new.
You will love it....enjoy. probably be a Captain your last 4 or 5 and fly decent equipment.

FmrPropCapt
02-21-2019, 03:56 PM
I've seen some ATI lines and am curious with some crediting over guarantee an some under, is there an average? Maybe outside the oct-jan window? If you're drafted for days off how is it paid? I know everyone should plan for guarantee but what does a line holder and a rsv typically credit? Thanks for your insight all

Asci
02-21-2019, 05:11 PM
I've seen some ATI lines and am curious with some crediting over guarantee an some under, is there an average? Maybe outside the oct-jan window? If you're drafted for days off how is it paid? I know everyone should plan for guarantee but what does a line holder and a rsv typically credit? Thanks for your insight all



Only about 10% of lines are over guarantee. So a few line holders will credit over guarantee and very few reserve will. There isnít a lot of opportunity to credit over unless you work on days off.
If you do work on days off you get paid 4 hrs volunteer pay a day. If you have been away from home over 16 days (and fewer lines are the full 16 days out) you also get 3.75hrs on top of the volunteer. Or if you have flown more than 60hrs(rare) you get flight hours on top of the volunteer.
IMHO itís really not worth working on your days off here. You basically get paid straight time (we rig 3.75hrs a day) unless you already have an over guarantee line. If you want to make more than guarantee go to k4 and fly the 74 around the world. You can make over guarantee there and still get days off.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bidderswede
02-21-2019, 05:53 PM
So there's A LOT of whining, complaining on here, working for ACMI companies...
For a pilot that's been working hard and enjoys flying, most of the time under paid, but still enjoys it, how bad can it be??
Home based? Check. 2-3 weeks on and 2 weeks off? Check. Flying heavy equipment? Check. Getting to see all kind of places around the world?. Check. Pay might not be great the first year, but after that, pretty decent. Check.
After reading almost ALL the posts on here, good and bad, I'd still do it in a heart beat.
I just need to make enough $ to pay the bills...

conceited
02-21-2019, 07:01 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if Amazon were to purchase FedEx, how would ATSG fit in that equation? Would ATSG be the odd man out?

nitefr8dog
02-21-2019, 07:56 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if Amazon were to purchase FedEx, how would ATSG fit in that equation? Would ATSG be the odd man out?
Odd man, not sure.....out.. yes.
Atlas too.

tonsterboy5
02-21-2019, 09:20 PM
Hypothetically speaking, if Amazon were to purchase FedEx, how would ATSG fit in that equation? Would ATSG be the odd man out?

How would amazon afford to pay fed ex pilots? There is a reason they use the absolute cheapest carriers for contracts.. they are cheap, why pay pilots 2-300k a year when you can pay them 60-180k

LRSRanger
02-21-2019, 11:28 PM
Heresy!

Filler

Interesting how many people knock on ATI. Especially since it is under ACMI. I guess that is to be expected at any carrier. But the part that has me absolutely shocked is how I read so many people talking about regionals as if they are a good place to be! Since when did regionals become the hero? Same with the LCCs? They used to be the destination of those whose career didnít pan out. Sure the pay is better than before but now everyone is talking about how amazing they are!

Call me naive but what makes LCCs and regionals better than ATI? ABX sure I get that, but ATI?

LRSRanger
02-21-2019, 11:35 PM
Correct me if Iím wrong, but you didnít have much recent experience. Not much time in the last year means you wonít get much interest, or so Iíve been told...

Been applying and updating to SWA, United, AA, FedEx, UPS etc.
5600 TT
5500 PIC
1300 PIC Jet
Crickets from ALL of them.
The only "airline" with interview invite is Sun Country, but can't afford to work there...
So, I guess the "low" timers that you speak of that airlines are hiring, have something else besides just an application up their sleeve...?
Tons of LOR's, buddies on the HR team...idk..

ACMItrash
02-22-2019, 12:36 AM
Hypothetically speaking, if Amazon were to purchase FedEx, how would ATSG fit in that equation? Would ATSG be the odd man out?

Atsg yes gone no question....misfit outfit

NeverHome
02-22-2019, 05:08 AM
Hypothetically speaking, if Amazon were to purchase FedEx, how would ATSG fit in that equation? Would ATSG be the odd man out?

I donít know if Amazon would do such a thing. I could see them purchase ATI or atlas or abx or even all of them on a bulk discount... someday. But not Fedex or UPS. Too expensive for what you get. Besides these are global freight carriers. Amazon doesnít serve the planet and will not need that kind of structure to maintain.

Besides I wonder if the DOJ would let that slide

FlyAstarJets
02-22-2019, 06:15 AM
Ö...Besides I wonder if the DOJ would let that slide


^^This^^


There is enough antitrust talk out there. Would be the preverbal straw that breaks the camels back.

MentalMidget
02-22-2019, 08:18 AM
Just one man's opinion, but until Amazon changes their business model nothing will change. It is a close duplicate of the DHL ACMI race to the bottom model and guess what.....it works. Does anyone see DHL changing their model after all these years?


hth

Bidderswede
02-22-2019, 08:59 AM
Correct me if Iím wrong, but you didnít have much recent experience. Not much time in the last year means you wonít get much interest, or so Iíve been told...


Wrong.
Flying about 300 hours a year as 135 jet PIC.

flyboy730
02-22-2019, 09:24 PM
In the future, ditch the wife. If she isnít willing to stick by you and support you so you can support your family (her included), than she isnít worth it. Sounds like you have really busted your rear trying to keep both going. I did that and nearly lost both. I was fortunate to have at least salvaged my career. Marriage went into the tank and now several years divorced, Im kicking myself for not having separated sooner.

Just my .02, best of luck

Agreed. This is not a career that supports a demanding spouse. If sheís not willing to move and your family requires a certain amount of income from you, then Iíd say youíre stuck where youíre at. You may have to stand up to her and tell her to put her big girl britches on and deal with it.

atpcliff
02-23-2019, 10:28 AM
I donít know if Amazon would do such a thing. I could see them purchase ATI or atlas or abx or even all of them on a bulk discount... someday. But not Fedex or UPS. Too expensive for what you get. Besides these are global freight carriers. Amazon doesnít serve the planet and will not need that kind of structure to maintain.

Besides I wonder if the DOJ would let that slide

From what I have been reading, Amazon doesn't have an interest in FedEx, because they don't have a big enough ground shipping business to help Amazon. They need more ground help to expand their air shipping...

atpcliff
02-23-2019, 10:30 AM
Just one man's opinion, but until Amazon changes their business model nothing will change. It is a close duplicate of the DHL ACMI race to the bottom model and guess what.....it works. Does anyone see DHL changing their model after all these years?


hth

I believe that the DHL business model, will not work for Amazon, because of the Pilot Shortage. You can provide a cheap contract for pilots, and not have very many, or, if you want to grow your operation, you have to have a contract that will attract pilots from other flying organizations, to switch to your operation.

MentalMidget
02-23-2019, 10:44 AM
I believe that the DHL business model, will not work for Amazon, because of the Pilot Shortage. You can provide a cheap contract for pilots, and not have very many, or, if you want to grow your operation, you have to have a contract that will attract pilots from other flying organizations, to switch to your operation.




ATI does not have a pilot shortage and apparently neither do any of the other acmi carriers. I've been hearing about a pilot shortage for 30 years, let me know when it happens. As far as attracting pilots from other flying organizations, there seems to be an abundance of mesa and great lakes pilots getting hired at ATI and voting yes on a substandard contract because they are too ignorant to know any better.

No Land 3
02-23-2019, 11:17 AM
ATI does not have a pilot shortage and apparently neither do any of the other acmi carriers. I've been hearing about a pilot shortage for 30 years, let me know when it happens. As far as attracting pilots from other flying organizations, there seems to be an abundance of mesa and great lakes pilots getting hired at ATI and voting yes on a substandard contract because they are too ignorant to know any better.

Hey, not all Mesa and Great Lakers are that way...

midnightshuttle
02-23-2019, 07:40 PM
Hey, not all Mesa and Great Lakers are that way...

ABSOLUTELY agree ^^^^^^^^^^^

conceited
02-24-2019, 07:45 AM
I believe that the DHL business model, will not work for Amazon, because of the Pilot Shortage. You can provide a cheap contract for pilots, and not have very many, or, if you want to grow your operation, you have to have a contract that will attract pilots from other flying organizations, to switch to your operation.

I agree 100%... With the projected "planned" retirement numbers over the next decade, companies will have no other choice but to fork over a decent contract in order to attract and retain pilot. Furthermore, if given the option "most" pilots will choose a career fly passengers as opposed to cargo. Hence, the reason why FedEx & UPS compensates their guys so well.

LunkerHunter
02-24-2019, 08:44 AM
As far as attracting pilots from other flying organizations, there seems to be an abundance of mesa and great lakes pilots getting hired at ATI and voting yes on a substandard contract because they are too ignorant to know any better.

With a statement this ignorant you really are a mental midget

MentalMidget
02-24-2019, 10:44 AM
With a statement this ignorant you really are a mental midget


This is precisely the thinking, (correction lack of thinking) that ATI's contract passed with a majority 70% +.



Just bear in mind when you interview at another major and the reps from labor ask you these types of scenarios and where you stand, give them your answer and don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out lads.

No Land 3
02-24-2019, 11:33 AM
This is precisely the thinking, (correction lack of thinking) that ATI's contract passed with a majority 70% +.



Just bear in mind when you interview at another major and the reps from labor ask you these types of scenarios and where you stand, give them your answer and don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out lads.

No one cares about regional politics once they leave the regionals, I highly doubt anyone cares about ACMI politics at Brown/Purple/AA/DL/UA.

WhaleSurfing
02-24-2019, 11:48 AM
Been applying and updating to SWA, United, AA, FedEx, UPS etc.
5600 TT
5500 PIC
1300 PIC Jet
Crickets from ALL of them.
The only "airline" with interview invite is Sun Country, but can't afford to work there...
So, I guess the "low" timers that you speak of that airlines are hiring, have something else besides just an application up their sleeve...?
Tons of LOR's, buddies on the HR team...idk..

Youíll need more than those qualifications to be hired by the Big 4 or FedEx & UPS. Think LCA, Management, Safety Jobs, etc.

atpcliff
02-24-2019, 02:43 PM
ATI does not have a pilot shortage and apparently neither do any of the other acmi carriers. I've been hearing about a pilot shortage for 30 years, let me know when it happens. As far as attracting pilots from other flying organizations, there seems to be an abundance of mesa and great lakes pilots getting hired at ATI and voting yes on a substandard contract because they are too ignorant to know any better.

If ATI wants to grow a LOT, then they will need to get pilots to leave other carriers, like Kalitta, Atlas, JetBlue, Delta, FedEx, Chinese airlines. If they want to grow a little bit, they MAY be able to do it with their current contract.

I think that THE biggest reasons that ATI got their new contract, was that they were having difficulty recruiting/retaining pilots. And, the Pilot Shortage is getting worse...the Pilot Shortage situation was better back when ATI got their current contract.

Bidderswede
02-24-2019, 03:35 PM
Youíll need more than those qualifications to be hired by the Big 4 or FedEx & UPS. Think LCA, Management, Safety Jobs, etc.

Yup.
Understood.
Back to stock trading it is..

LunkerHunter
02-25-2019, 08:36 AM
This is precisely the thinking, (correction lack of thinking) that ATI's contract passed with a majority 70% +.



Just bear in mind when you interview at another major and the reps from labor ask you these types of scenarios and where you stand, give them your answer and don't let the door hit you in the arse on your way out lads.

I interviewed at FedEx and my time at ATI was viewed as positive. Nice try with your fear propaganda but it didnít come up at all. (BTW I was hired)

Av8er1550
02-25-2019, 03:01 PM
How many hours are guys/gals crediting per month these days at ATI?

midnightshuttle
02-25-2019, 03:45 PM
How many hours are guys/gals crediting per month these days at ATI?

I normally fly 55-70 per bid 60íish most months

MentalMidget
02-25-2019, 04:08 PM
I interviewed at FedEx and my time at ATI was viewed as positive. Nice try with your fear propaganda but it didnít come up at all. (BTW I was hired)


Wow, I give up. Totally way over your head...good riddens

ACMItrash
02-26-2019, 11:31 AM
Wow, I give up. Totally way over your head...good riddens

I know of quite a few ATI pilots trying to escape that can't get a call or have been turned down. Just ask around. There are many airlines that just about anyone can go to that pay better than any ACMI and have just as quick upgrades...and better opportunity to build time....... ...waiting for someone to bow up and deny any connection. .......>>>

No Land 3
02-26-2019, 01:28 PM
I know of quite a few ATI pilots trying to escape that can't get a call or have been turned down. Just ask around. There are many airlines that just about anyone can go to that pay better than any ACMI and have just as quick upgrades...and better opportunity to build time....... ...waiting for someone to bow up and deny any connection. .......>>>
Well? Please list the airlines people can go to that pay better than an ACMI that aren't near impossible to get hired at? Pilot shortage or not, if you want to work somewhere that pays well North of 100k, it's going to be competitive and selective.

ACMItrash
02-26-2019, 07:13 PM
Well? Please list the airlines people can go to that pay better than an ACMI that aren't near impossible to get hired at? Pilot shortage or not, if you want to work somewhere that pays well North of 100k, it's going to be competitive and selective.


Nobody at ati, abx or atlas is making north of 100k in the first 3 years.

Frontier cpt upgrade 2-3 years
Spirit cpt upgrade 3-4 years
Allegiant cpt upgrade 3 years.....all better pay than ati because they have meaningful trip/ duty/ min day credit. And all have a better retirement.

And Envoy direct entry cpt 110k

No Land 3
02-26-2019, 07:44 PM
Nobody at ati, abx or atlas is making north of 100k in the first 3 years.

Frontier cpt upgrade 2-3 years
Spirit cpt upgrade 3-4 years
Allegiant cpt upgrade 3 years.....all better pay than ati because they have meaningful trip/ duty/ min day credit. And all have a better retirement.

And Envoy direct entry cpt 110k

allegiant(lower case because that's how they like it) can be a hard pill to swallow with having to need to live on base. An ATI pilot with home basing who enjoys where they live wouldn't ever consider that to be better.
Direct entry CA at Envoy? A regional is a regional, with regional schedules and non-reving multiple times a month unless you live on base. Again, if you ever came from doing that, you'd never leave a job with home basing to subject yourself to that punishment again, for a regional.
Make no mistake about it, Spirit, Frontier, and allegiant are selective and hard to get into. allegiant told me no, and both Spirit and Frontier never called me for an interview after the job fair.
Did I hand pick Kalitta? They were merely the first ones to say yes. I suspect that this is the case for nearly everyone on this message board for where they currently work.

Agsherpa
02-27-2019, 10:07 AM
ATI pay is a lot more than Atlas / Southern too. But then again so is basically everybodyís.

Do you know how much ATI pays for its First Officer for 1st year?
Thank you

Agsherpa
02-27-2019, 10:45 AM
ATI pay is a lot more than Atlas / Southern too. But then again so is basically everybodyís.
Do you how much they pay for FO.... 1st year?

Larry in TN
02-27-2019, 11:08 AM
Do you know how much ATI pays for its First Officer for 1st year?
Thank you
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/air_transport_international

Formerbuspilot
03-01-2019, 05:58 AM
Do you how much they pay for FO.... 1st year?

$76/hour, 60 hours/month guaranteed

l8fr82hub
03-01-2019, 06:30 AM
$76/hour, 60 hours/month guaranteed

Actually its 60 hours per bid unit. 13 bid units per year. This equates to 65 hours per calendar month.

ACMItrash
03-03-2019, 12:24 AM
Actually its 60 hours per bid unit. 13 bid units per year. This equates to 65 hours per calendar month.


In other words one of the lowest in the industry with virtually no min day or duty credit!

Cujo665
03-05-2019, 05:21 AM
In other words one of the lowest in the industry with virtually no min day or duty credit!

Depends if you are flying over that 65 guarantee, wouldn't it.

midnightshuttle
03-05-2019, 07:17 PM
Do you know how much ATI pays for its First Officer for 1st year?
Thank you

I think I made 50k first year. You hardly EVER break 65hrs as a new hire. But you can work on days off as volunteer

dynap09
03-05-2019, 07:55 PM
Yowks, I hope folks aren't basing their career choices on year 1 pay! Is this for real?

What's UPS year 1 pay?

No Land 3
03-06-2019, 01:29 AM
Look at... Kalitta, Omni, Spirit, Frontier, allegiant, and Jet Blue has a new contract too right? All for first year pay. I believe ATI could of had similar pay rates given the trends in the industry.

atpcliff
03-06-2019, 07:08 PM
Yowks, I hope folks aren't basing their career choices on year 1 pay! Is this for real?

What's UPS year 1 pay?

A LOT of people won't go to specific carriers because of low first year pay, regardless of the long-term benefits...

Bidderswede
03-07-2019, 04:02 PM
A LOT of people won't go to specific carriers because of low first year pay, regardless of the long-term benefits...

I think the "low first year pay" carriers should go back to the "2 yr commitment contract" and have their starting pay upped to where you'll get quality pilots interested, instead of pilots just taking the type and experience that they need and move on to another airline.
I'm just talking for myself, but I'd rather do it that way and stay long term instead of working underpaid short term.
Just my 2 cents...

acebaxter
03-08-2019, 11:56 AM
There are several management positions open on the operations side at ATI. Can anyone provide some insight into the culture of middle and upper managers?

Standing by for lots of incoming and hopefully a bit of useful information!

PMs are welcome

Regards,

Jim

Riverside
03-08-2019, 12:50 PM
There are several management positions open on the operations side at ATI. Can anyone provide some insight into the culture of middle and upper managers?

Standing by for lots of incoming and hopefully a bit of useful information!

PMs are welcome

Regards,

Jim

What are you smoking?

dogo
03-08-2019, 01:31 PM
Whatever it is....I want some!

midnightshuttle
03-08-2019, 11:43 PM
Yowks, I hope folks aren't basing their career choices on year 1 pay! Is this for real?

What's UPS year 1 pay?

Pssst.............This isnt UPS .....

point432
03-09-2019, 07:12 AM
There are several management positions open on the operations side at ATI. Can anyone provide some insight into the culture of middle and upper managers?

Standing by for lots of incoming and hopefully a bit of useful information!

PMs are welcome

Regards,

Jim



Iíve heard stuff but the only insight iíve see is this...

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190309/9fd36c9939715bbaedb8d7eb0c0a7932.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

l8fr82hub
03-11-2019, 11:16 AM
There are several management positions open on the operations side at ATI. Can anyone provide some insight into the culture of middle and upper managers?

Standing by for lots of incoming and hopefully a bit of useful information!

PMs are welcome

Regards,

Jim

This snake pit is not the place to get useful information. PM me and Iíll help however I can.

dynap09
03-11-2019, 12:55 PM
A LOT of people won't go to specific carriers because of low first year pay, regardless of the long-term benefits...

Which is what I'm pointing out is crazy.

UPS is maybe $50/hr first year?

ATI is $76?

You'd be an idiot to pick ATI over UPS. First year pay isn't everything.

nolav53
03-11-2019, 11:42 PM
Looking for some feedback please. I have a job offer from both Atlas & ATI. After reviewing the pros and cons of both companies, I'm currently torn between which direction to go in. Any advice? Also, why is there so much hatred directed towards ATI?

Riverside
03-12-2019, 12:03 AM
Looking for some feedback please. I have a job offer from both Atlas & ATI. After reviewing the pros and cons of both companies, I'm currently torn between which direction to go in. Any advice? Also, why is there so much hatred directed towards ATI?

I suggest you brush up on the ABX strike. Then you'll see why.

freighthound
03-12-2019, 06:20 AM
I suggest you brush up on the ABX strike. Then you'll see why.

I think it is naive to think it is only the ABX strike.
In a much broader sense that effects every pilot in the ACMI business, it is their propensity to agree to substandard contracts in order to garner business away from all other carriers in this segment. In their last contract they agreed to pay rates 5% below the 2 most recent contracts signed at Kalitta and Omni. They were handed a layup by the Omni pilots who had just come to terms on a long hard contract fight that matched Kalitta, all the ATI union leadership had to do was say me too on those rates and a level playing field for labor would be formed that helped all pilots including ATI pilots. Instead at the urging of ATI management and with the promise of getting more flying from other companies the ATI pilots agreed to the 5% less contract. This contract now becomes a drag to every other carrier in the DHL/Amazon network.
This is why they are not well thought of in this segment.

dogo
03-12-2019, 06:24 AM
Despised....not ďwell thought ofĒ

ACMItrash
03-12-2019, 06:26 AM
Looking for some feedback please. I have a job offer from both Atlas & ATI. After reviewing the pros and cons of both companies, I'm currently torn between which direction to go in. Any advice? Also, why is there so much hatred directed towards ATI?
Seriously don't take either one! You will be better off where you're currently employed! Just read these boards, ask around educate yourself. Look at pilotcontracts.com. see for yourself, ACMI is not the place to be valued as a pilot.

Jurassic Jet
03-12-2019, 06:39 AM
I think it is naive to think it is only the ABX strike.
In a much broader sense that effects every pilot in the ACMI business, it is their propensity to agree to substandard contracts in order to garner business away from all other carriers in this segment. In their last contract they agreed to pay rates 5% below the 2 most recent contracts signed at Kalitta and Omni. They were handed a layup by the Omni pilots who had just come to terms on a long hard contract fight that matched Kalitta, all the ATI union leadership had to do was say me too on those rates and a level playing field for labor would be formed that helped all pilots including ATI pilots. Instead at the urging of ATI management and with the promise of getting more flying from other companies the ATI pilots agreed to the 5% less contract. This contract now becomes a drag to every other carrier in the DHL/Amazon network.
This is why they are not well thought of in this segment.


This. Right. Here.

They would (and did) sell their soul at the promise of some shiny new planes.

gumpscheck
03-12-2019, 10:15 AM
This. Right. Here.

They would (and did) sell their soul at the promise of some shiny new planes.

Well, just shiny. Because skin deep those airframes are worn out and old.

Cujo665
03-12-2019, 12:20 PM
I think it is naive to think it is only the ABX strike.
In a much broader sense that effects every pilot in the ACMI business, it is their propensity to agree to substandard contracts in order to garner business away from all other carriers in this segment. In their last contract they agreed to pay rates 5% below the 2 most recent contracts signed at Kalitta and Omni. They were handed a layup by the Omni pilots who had just come to terms on a long hard contract fight that matched Kalitta, all the ATI union leadership had to do was say me too on those rates and a level playing field for labor would be formed that helped all pilots including ATI pilots. Instead at the urging of ATI management and with the promise of getting more flying from other companies the ATI pilots agreed to the 5% less contract. This contract now becomes a drag to every other carrier in the DHL/Amazon network.
This is why they are not well thought of in this segment.

Same thing happened at the regionals in 2012-215. The pre shortage push for concessions was on.... all the regionals were voting no to concessions. Republic, Expressjet, Eagle did 3x, even silver voted no....
BOOM, PSA Voted yes to concessions in exchange for some of Eagles planes and a flow. Their whole MEC was at American within a year... leaving behind a 10 year concessionary contract.
All it takes is one.

Personally I think Teamsters & ALPA should file joint action lawsuit against federal government that the RLA doesn’t apply to ACMI or Regionals.

When RLA was written you couldn’t go to a PanAm pilot and demand concessions under threat of giving their flying to TWA. The RLA wasn’t written with the contractor business model in mind, and as a result the built in status quo protections for fair negotiations aren’t there.

jmprdmpr
03-12-2019, 12:34 PM
Seriously don't take either one! You will be better off where you're currently employed! Just read these boards, ask around educate yourself. Look at pilotcontracts.com. see for yourself, ACMI is not the place to be valued as a pilot.

Have to strongly disagree. The ACMI world isnít for everyone, but it most definitely is ideal for some. I love it and can honestly say that I prefer it over working at a major.
I actually feel pretty valued and looked after at my company.

FlyAstarJets
03-12-2019, 02:40 PM
Same thing happened at the regionals in 2012-215. Ö..PSA Voted yes to concessions in exchange for some of Eagles planes and a flow. Their whole MEC was at American within a year... leaving behind a 10 year concessionary contract.
All it takes is one.

With respect Cujo, regarding ATI's 2018 contract I have to disagree on this point. The contract we voted on was neither concessionary or long duration. While I haven't done the math for all longevity levels, but for me personally, it was a 42.5% increase in just straight pay. As for this contracts duration, its a three year term and we go into Section six at year 2 (twelve months from now actually).


Personally I think Teamsters & ALPA should file joint action lawsuit against federal government that the RLA doesnít apply to ACMI or Regionals.

On this point, I whole heartedly agree. The RLA is obsolete and should be reexamined to reflect todays realities.



My responses are in red.



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