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View Full Version : JB realistic London expansion


n606tw
12-30-2018, 04:40 PM
Can JB realistically expand its network over the Atlantic?
Is it a calculated assessment based on the necessity to keep up with Delta real expansion plan from BOS to EU or ...
Can the JB 320 fly 3500 mi eastbound and westbound over the pond?


capt707
12-30-2018, 04:44 PM
We can barely operate domestically....

usmc-sgt
12-30-2018, 04:55 PM
We can barely operate domestically....

ďChallenging weather.Ē


Flyby1206
12-30-2018, 05:33 PM
Can JB realistically expand its network over the Atlantic?
Is it a calculated assessment based on the necessity to keep up with Delta real expansion plan from BOS to EU or ...
Can the JB 320 fly 3500 mi eastbound and westbound over the pond?

They can do it if the operate like they do for the LAX/SFO Mint routes. Lots of padding in the schedule, priority for staffing FAs/pilots, MX meets every flight, etc.

Mint transcons have been doing well for JB, so the next logical expansion of Mint is transatlantic. The 321LR will be the plane of choice for these routes, and should be able to handle 3500nm without too much difficulty. I think the opposite is happening, where DL is expanding TATL before JB to beat them to the punch.

Slots are the big issue though, and might be the hardest part of the equation. We will see if they can get authorities to open the alliance carrier JVs for review, and get some sympathy slots.

PasserOGas
12-30-2018, 06:02 PM
Yes, we will go to London. It will be announced at the "free beer tomorrow" party. Tomorrow.

But first, more flights to Haiti! Delta only wishes they could command the premium fares we get from Port Au Prince.

n606tw
12-30-2018, 06:12 PM
They can do it if the operate like they do for the LAX/SFO Mint routes. Lots of padding in the schedule, priority for staffing FAs/pilots, MX meets every flight, etc.

Mint transcons have been doing well for JB, so the next logical expansion of Mint is transatlantic. The 321LR will be the plane of choice for these routes, and should be able to handle 3500nm without too much difficulty. I think the opposite is happening, where DL is expanding TATL before JB to beat them to the punch.

Slots are the big issue though, and might be the hardest part of the equation. We will see if they can get authorities to open the alliance carrier JVs for review, and get some sympathy slots.

When the first 321LR will be deliver in JB?
NYC - London is the most profitable route... ever!
Boston is a growing reality, BOS-LHR will be the same (and Delta knows it!)

BeatNavy
12-30-2018, 07:04 PM
When the first 321LR will be deliver in JB?
NYC - London is the most profitable route... ever!
Boston is a growing reality, BOS-LHR will be the same (and Delta knows it!)

There are no LRs on order, but JB can convert some of the 321NEOs to LRs (presumably XLRs when those come out as well). CEO said turnaround time for conversion choice to delivery of an LR is less than 18 months (I believe thatís the vague timeline he gave in an interview a few months ago). Getting a LHR slot is one of the big problems. Getting ETOPS is another issue, which according to another forum has been stopped for now. No idea if that part is true. Iím not planning any London layovers anytime soon though.

Bluedriver
12-31-2018, 02:24 AM
This place only knows carrots and sticks. They have LOTS of sticks and only one carrot, which is the perpetual hinting at trans-atlantic flights. They've been teasing that one carrot for YEARS.

Each month that passes I'm more convinced it's a stinky smelly moldy rotten make-believe carrot.

As others have said, we have no A321LR's on order. We have no E-TOPS. We have no LHR landing slots.

We only have a stinky smelly moldy rotten carrot that may or may not be make-believe.

aldonite7667
12-31-2018, 03:43 AM
This place only knows carrots and sticks. They have LOTS of sticks and only one carrot, which is the perpetual hinting at trans-atlantic flights. They've been teasing that one carrot for YEARS.

Each month that passes I'm more convinced it's a stinky smelly moldy rotten make-believe carrot.

As others have said, we have no A321LR's on order. We have no E-TOPS. We have no LHR landing slots.

We only have a stinky smelly moldy rotten carrot that may or may not be make-believe.

Now I want wings.

n606tw
12-31-2018, 04:29 AM
There are no LRs on order, but JB can convert some of the 321NEOs to LRs (presumably XLRs when those come out as well). CEO said turnaround time for conversion choice to delivery of an LR is less than 18 months (I believe thatís the vague timeline he gave in an interview a few months ago). Getting a LHR slot is one of the big problems. Getting ETOPS is another issue, which according to another forum has been stopped for now. No idea if that part is true. Iím not planning any London layovers anytime soon though.

LHR slot might not be a must ... STN or LGW will work too (only if there are not drones flying around...lol);
ETOPS qualification is a full year long process and some ... and it starts when you have the actual planes ... so if you don't have the planes yet ...

nuball5
12-31-2018, 05:39 AM
This place only knows carrots and sticks. They have LOTS of sticks and only one carrot, which is the perpetual hinting at trans-atlantic flights. They've been teasing that one carrot for YEARS.

Each month that passes I'm more convinced it's a stinky smelly moldy rotten make-believe carrot.

As others have said, we have no A321LR's on order. We have no E-TOPS. We have no LHR landing slots.

We only have a stinky smelly moldy rotten carrot that may or may not be make-believe.

You could say the same thing about the C-series as a carrot. Many were convinced they would choose the E190-E2 when push comes to shove since it would've been cheaper to train the pilots and the lower payscale. I think they proved most people wrong (including myself) with their decision. Although one could argue they announced the A220 to get the TA over the finish line with a Yes vote due to the timing.

Bluedriver
12-31-2018, 06:36 AM
LHR slot might not be a must ... STN or LGW will work too (only if there are not drones flying around...lol);
ETOPS qualification is a full year long process and some ... and it starts when you have the actual planes ... so if you don't have the planes yet ...

Not only do we not have the planes, we don't even have the planes on order.

pilotpayne
12-31-2018, 06:39 AM
You could say the same thing about the C-series as a carrot. Many were convinced they would choose the E190-E2 when push comes to shove since it would've been cheaper to train the pilots and the lower payscale. I think they proved most people wrong (including myself) with their decision. Although one could argue they announced the A220 to get the TA over the finish line with a Yes vote due to the timing.


Agree.

I donít see it as a carrot other than ďgrowthĒ itís not like itís a big raise over what we do now or very different. We would just turn east vs west. Itís even in the same plane.

I see it as JetBlue just canít figure out what it wants to be. Until they decide that we are are stuck with maybe.

Bluedriver
12-31-2018, 06:39 AM
You could say the same thing about the C-series as a carrot. Many were convinced they would choose the E190-E2 when push comes to shove since it would've been cheaper to train the pilots and the lower payscale. I think they proved most people wrong (including myself) with their decision. Although one could argue they announced the A220 to get the TA over the finish line with a Yes vote due to the timing.

Maybe, but the company needed to replace the E190 dumpster fire and the fact that the E2 was probably just a shinier new dumpster fire with less range and capacity than an A220 probably made that decision the RIGHT thing to do.

PasserOGas
12-31-2018, 06:55 AM
They can do it if the operate like they do for the LAX/SFO Mint routes. Lots of padding in the schedule, priority for staffing FAs/pilots, MX meets every flight, etc.


It is almost like they know exactly how to improve our on time performance, but choose not to in order to save money. Like it doesn't matter to them on most routes.

Nah. That would be disingenuous of them. They would never claim that OTP is important but be lying about it. Not our benevolent leaders. :rolleyes:

David Puddy
12-31-2018, 08:10 AM
If the bigger CS300/A220 eventually gets cleared to use London City (LCY) like itís smaller brother the CS100, then maybe JB could fill a few airframes with 40 Mint seats and serve LCY from BOS/JFK. No doubt business travelers would love it. LHR and LGW are a mess and inconvenient to the London Financial District. The A220 has the range and the performance. You never know....

Speedbird2263
12-31-2018, 08:38 AM
If the bigger CS300/A220 eventually gets cleared to use London City (LCY) like itís smaller brother the CS100, then maybe JB could fill a few airframes with 40 Mint seats and serve LCY from BOS/JFK. No doubt business travelers would love it. LHR and LGW are a mess and inconvenient to the London Financial District. The A220 has the range and the performance. You never know....

Guess whoís already received their first A220-100 and could presumably pre-empt that plan to LCY. Itís not B6 unfortunately.

Flyby1206
12-31-2018, 08:46 AM
LHR slot might not be a must ... STN or LGW will work too (only if there are not drones flying around...lol);
ETOPS qualification is a full year long process and some ... and it starts when you have the actual planes ... so if you don't have the planes yet ...

LHR is where the money is.

Cirrusly
12-31-2018, 09:18 AM
Always money in the banana stand...

PasserOGas
12-31-2018, 10:47 AM
Always money in the banana stand...

Oh. A banana stand at JFK! We could grow the bananas there and call them all "locally sourced"! Jet fuel after taste is an added bonus.

Anything but focusing on running a successful airline!

aldonite7667
12-31-2018, 10:59 AM
Oh. A banana stand at JFK! We could grow the bananas there and call them all "locally sourced"! Jet fuel after taste is an added bonus.

Anything but focusing on running a successful airline!


Itís a banana hammock stand.

Flyby1206
12-31-2018, 12:13 PM
Always money in the banana stand...

https://aseatenontv.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/menu.png

P-3Bubba
12-31-2018, 01:21 PM
You guys have tapped into grandpaís cough medicine a little early this New Years Eve 2018. Trans-Atlantic. Ha!!! Who knows?

I tend to err on the side if we canít get anything right in the US market, so stay away from the pentaverat that owns and comtrols the Trams-Atlantic. Norwegian and WOW are done for. Squeezed by the powers that be. The biggest leverage we have is the threat of getting the XLR and entering the Trans world. Which adding the XLR still wouldnít be a bad get for our existing market structure. We need to add IND CIN more CLE. We keep losing customers to our holiday challenges so better get some new ones who want to travel to abandoned markets. Kind of like SJU.

-Bubs

aldonite7667
12-31-2018, 01:44 PM
You guys have tapped into grandpaís cough medicine a little early this New Years Eve 2018. Trans-Atlantic. Ha!!! Who knows?

I tend to err on the side if we canít get anything right in the US market, so stay away from the pentaverat that owns and comtrols the Trams-Atlantic. Norwegian and WOW are done for. Squeezed by the powers that be. The biggest leverage we have is the threat of getting the XLR and entering the Trans world. Which adding the XLR still wouldnít be a bad get for our existing market structure. We need to add IND CIN more CLE. We keep losing customers to our holiday challenges so better get some new ones who want to travel to abandoned markets. Kind of like SJU.

-Bubs

We have 1/3 the airplanes that swa has yet we serve more cities. I donít think we need to add shiott until we build out frequency.

atpcliff
12-31-2018, 02:14 PM
I read that the smaller A-220, with a typical pax/baggage load, can fly from London City to Montreal. The A-220s should be able to go east/west to many European destinations from Boston...

P-3Bubba
12-31-2018, 02:56 PM
We have 1/3 the airplanes that swa has yet we serve more cities. I donít think we need to add shiott until we build out frequency.

Ummm......sweet spot. Duh! IND CIN CLE

-Bubs

nuball5
12-31-2018, 03:55 PM
Well there you go folks...LR/Europe decision to be made in 2019! 😱

pilotpayne
12-31-2018, 04:59 PM
Well there you go folks...LR/Europe decision to be made in 2019! 😱

I could swear there was a CP email saying decision this fall, guess he got his years mixed up.

BeatNavy
12-31-2018, 05:08 PM
Well there you go folks...LR/Europe decision to be made in 2019! 😱

Only a couple more hours to do it this year, so 2019 makes sense. Iím usually cynical with this place, but the wording of this email makes it sound more likely than not that we see LRs. They wouldnít hype it up publically and internally telegraph an ďannouncement of our decisionĒ if it was going to be a ďnot gonna do it.Ē They would quietly just decide to not do it. And the bit they put out with the image of the JB app booking a flight from JFK-LHR? Guess we will see in 2019.

nuball5
12-31-2018, 06:45 PM
Only a couple more hours to do it this year, so 2019 makes sense. Iím usually cynical with this place, but the wording of this email makes it sound more likely than not that we see LRs. They wouldnít hype it up publically and internally telegraph an ďannouncement of our decisionĒ if it was going to be a ďnot gonna do it.Ē They would quietly just decide to not do it. And the bit they put out with the image of the JB app booking a flight from JFK-LHR? Guess we will see in 2019.

I think they regret making their interest publicly known close to two years ago, or whenever the A321LR talk started. I bet if you asked them they would've kept it more of secret if they could do it over again. They're almost in too deep to stop talking about it publicly at this juncture.

Speedbird2263
12-31-2018, 06:49 PM
I could swear there was a CP email saying decision this fall, guess he got his years mixed up.

I saw that too. After the E190 replacement "any time now" eventual decision, it feels like they're out to outdo themselves on this next one.

pilotpayne
12-31-2018, 08:30 PM
Only a couple more hours to do it this year, so 2019 makes sense. Iím usually cynical with this place, but the wording of this email makes it sound more likely than not that we see LRs. They wouldnít hype it up publically and internally telegraph an ďannouncement of our decisionĒ if it was going to be a ďnot gonna do it.Ē They would quietly just decide to not do it. And the bit they put out with the image of the JB app booking a flight from JFK-LHR? Guess we will see in 2019.


Yeah at this point with that email I think we are going ( no bluedriver Iím not jumping up and down) but why even talk about it. As you said SOP here would just be to act like you never said it. New west coast focus city anyone?

If I was to guess itís more of an airplane issue and if the LR can actually do it. I guess we will see.

I did appreciate the email at least they identified issues and decisions they need to make. Also looks like a Boston update is coming. Yeah I know it could all be total BS but itís about time they even said ANYTHING. I wasnít even sure if RH worked here anymore.

hyperboy
01-01-2019, 04:37 AM
Yeah at this point with that email I think we are going ( no bluedriver Iím not jumping up and down) but why even talk about it. As you said SOP here would just be to act like you never said it. New west coast focus city anyone?

If I was to guess itís more of an airplane issue and if the LR can actually do it. I guess we will see.

I did appreciate the email at least they identified issues and decisions they need to make. Also looks like a Boston update is coming. Yeah I know it could all be total BS but itís about time they even said ANYTHING. I wasnít even sure if RH worked here anymore.

2020 announcement...."This time we are FOR REAL!"

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 06:52 AM
Yeah at this point with that email I think we are going ( no bluedriver Iím not jumping up and down) but why even talk about it. As you said SOP here would just be to act like you never said it. New west coast focus city anyone?

If I was to guess itís more of an airplane issue and if the LR can actually do it. I guess we will see.

I did appreciate the email at least they identified issues and decisions they need to make. Also looks like a Boston update is coming. Yeah I know it could all be total BS but itís about time they even said ANYTHING. I wasnít even sure if RH worked here anymore.

Easy! I wouldn't knock you for anything you said dude. I'm eagerly awaiting this "Boston update" because Delta is moving fast and hard and so far we are, um, not.

I bet we announce another daily round-trip to SDQ.

As for Europe and even additional growth in general, I'm hearing a 6+month delay in Airbus deliveries this year due to "engines". Yeah, couldn't be because you can't offer Airbus open bid positions because of the training nightmare the company created for itself on the E190............

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 06:54 AM
2020 announcement...."This time we are FOR REAL!"

No Hyper, it's "*THIS* time we are for real".

It's all about the emphasis.

pilotpayne
01-01-2019, 08:14 AM
Easy! I wouldn't knock you for anything you said dude. I'm eagerly awaiting this "Boston update" because Delta is moving fast and hard and so far we are, um, not.

I bet we announce another daily round-trip to SDQ.

As for Europe and even additional growth in general, I'm hearing a 6+month delay in Airbus deliveries this year due to "engines". Yeah, couldn't be because you can't offer Airbus open bid positions because of the training nightmare the company created for itself on the E190............

I think this last route announcement was about it for Delta. I ďthinkĒ with that they are at full capacity over there after SWA leaves. I know we will be getting 4 or 5 more gates but until that happens I canít see much changing other than more up gauges. As for the training issues who did see that coming lol

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 08:52 AM
I think this last route announcement was about it for Delta. I ďthinkĒ with that they are at full capacity over there after SWA leaves. I know we will be getting 4 or 5 more gates but until that happens I canít see much changing other than more up gauges. As for the training issues who did see that coming lol

Maybe, but Delta plays to win, for sure, so don't underestimate their ability to get more gates somehow. They also have a lot of up-gauging they can do as well.

pilotpayne
01-01-2019, 08:58 AM
Maybe, but Delta plays to win, for sure, so don't underestimate their ability to get more gates somehow. They also have a lot of up-gauging they can do as well.

I donít disagree but some of the goons on airliners.net have run the numbers and they are not good for Delta and thatís using a bunch of cheap RJs. They are there to mess with us. Itís not hard to move back into their own terminal. We will see but I donít know where they would get new gates from. Not saying they are not an issue but I donít see them beating us there. If anyone should worry itís AMR.

deus ex machina
01-01-2019, 09:25 AM
JB already flies the Atlantic with B777 and A380 via DXB... gaming the system with the Fly America Act....

Stay Classy....

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 09:26 AM
I donít disagree but some of the goons on airliners.net have run the numbers and they are not good for Delta and thatís using a bunch of cheap RJs. They are there to mess with us. Itís not hard to move back into their own terminal. We will see but I donít know where they would get new gates from. Not saying they are not an issue but I donít see them beating us there. If anyone should worry itís AMR.

Hopefully. But remember RJs aren't actually cheap. The employee wages are cheap, but the actual CASM of producing seat miles is actually expensive.

One option for DL is to extend the one end of the A concourse. I think there is some cargo or airport ops in the way, but that could possibly be relocated. Have to look closer again, going off memory. There is also an airline analyst on Seeking Alpha that says DL is doing great in Boston. I question whether or not he is highly biased towards DL, because I think he is, but he is adamant about it.

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 09:27 AM
JB already flies the Atlantic with B777 and A380 via DBX... gaming the system with the Fly America Act....

Stay Classy....

Legacy airlines also provide service via the Fly America act via their codeshare partners.

deus ex machina
01-01-2019, 09:28 AM
Legacy airlines also provide service via the Fly America act via their codeshare partners.

But those Legacy Airlines can actually do the work themselves... they actually have the jets that can do the lift.... not just RJs.

The difference is critical.... yet fundamental.

pilotpayne
01-01-2019, 09:54 AM
Hopefully. But remember RJs aren't actually cheap. The employee wages are cheap, but the actual CASM of producing seat miles is actually expensive.

One option for DL is to extend the one end of the A concourse. I think there is some cargo or airport ops in the way, but that could possibly be relocated. Have to look closer again, going off memory. There is also an airline analyst on Seeking Alpha that says DL is doing great in Boston. I question whether or not he is highly biased towards DL, because I think he is, but he is adamant about it.

Do you have a link?

I donít think they are doing amazing.

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 09:58 AM
But those Legacy Airlines can actually do the work themselves... they actually have the jets that can do the lift.... not just RJs.

The difference is critical.... yet fundamental.

Thank you for adding your opinion.

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 09:59 AM
Do you have a link?

I donít think they are doing amazing.

I'll see if I can PM you something when I have time.

deus ex machina
01-01-2019, 10:21 AM
Thank you for adding your opinion.

When CRAF gets activated is Emirates going to move our troops?

Fly America.. so JB uses EK who is highly subsidized and violating Open Skies agreements.

BeatNavy
01-01-2019, 10:31 AM
JB already flies the Atlantic with B777 and A380 via DXB... gaming the system with the Fly America Act....

Stay Classy....

The legacies outsource a whole lot more flying than JB on the regional side and the widebody side. If Iím not mistaken it was the legacies and not jetblue who paid foodstamp wages to people flying metal with their logo on it for decades, subsidizing their very existence on the backs of tens of thousands of regional pilots and at the expense of actual major airline jobs. And if Iím not mistaken DL, and to a lesser degree the other 2, has a ton of WB jobs outsourced via JVs. JBís scope section is a hell of a lot better than any legacyís. If you want to crap on JB, thereís plenty of reason to. But a few codeshares isnít one of them. JB doesnít make much money on codeshares...it just adds people to the network. If you want to complain about the Fly America Act, JB didnít write the rules or award any flying to itself, so go complain to people who make those decisions. And last I checked in a david vs Goliath sense, the legacies create an uneven playing field all the time (screwing with our gates in ATL, more ability to capacity dump with route overlap, opening/sustaining routes and frequencies with cheaper/less capacity/outsourced RJs)...the Fly America Act is hardly a blip on the radar for what you deem unfair competition.

pilotpayne
01-01-2019, 11:11 AM
When CRAF gets activated is Emirates going to move our troops?

Fly America.. so JB uses EK who is highly subsidized and violating Open Skies agreements.

Go write your representative

pilotpayne
01-01-2019, 11:14 AM
The legacies outsource a whole lot more flying than JB on the regional side and the widebody side. If Iím not mistaken it was the legacies and not jetblue who paid foodstamp wages to people flying metal with their logo on it for decades, subsidizing their very existence on the backs of tens of thousands of regional pilots and at the expense of actual major airline jobs. And if Iím not mistaken DL, and to a lesser degree the other 2, has a ton of WB jobs outsourced via JVs. JBís scope section is a hell of a lot better than any legacyís. If you want to crap on JB, thereís plenty of reason to. But a few codeshares isnít one of them. JB doesnít make much money on codeshares...it just adds people to the network. If you want to complain about the Fly America Act, JB didnít write the rules or award any flying to itself, so go complain to people who make those decisions. And last I checked in a david vs Goliath sense, the legacies create an uneven playing field all the time (screwing with our gates in ATL, more ability to capacity dump with route overlap, opening/sustaining routes and frequencies with cheaper/less capacity/outsourced RJs)...the Fly America Act is hardly a blip on the radar for what you deem unfair competition.


Exactly. All of the JVs are fine but not what we do. SMH.

I do love the ATL one. We canít even get gays together. Such a joke. The government shouldnít have allowed the big 3 to get so big.

deus ex machina
01-01-2019, 11:26 AM
The legacies outsource a whole lot more flying than JB on the regional side and the widebody side. If Iím not mistaken it was the legacies and not jetblue who paid foodstamp wages to people flying metal with their logo on it for decades, subsidizing their very existence on the backs of tens of thousands of regional pilots and at the expense of actual major airline jobs. And if Iím not mistaken DL, and to a lesser degree the other 2, has a ton of WB jobs outsourced via JVs. JBís scope section is a hell of a lot better than any legacyís. If you want to crap on JB, thereís plenty of reason to. But a few codeshares isnít one of them. JB doesnít make much money on codeshares...it just adds people to the network. If you want to complain about the Fly America Act, JB didnít write the rules or award any flying to itself, so go complain to people who make those decisions. And last I checked in a david vs Goliath sense, the legacies create an uneven playing field all the time (screwing with our gates in ATL, more ability to capacity dump with route overlap, opening/sustaining routes and frequencies with cheaper/less capacity/outsourced RJs)...the Fly America Act is hardly a blip on the radar for what you deem unfair competition.

You are mistaken....

What the legacies do with their express feed is irrelevant to this discussion... nonetheless plenty of JB pilots got their experience feeding mainline including PFT... now they feed LH and EK.

The Fly America Act contract award to JB was a loose interpretation of the rules.... But it's also an American citizen thing... you know.. USA? You don't funnel money to EK when they are violating ASAs.

JB in itself back in 2000 was an uneven playing field... how are the legacies supposed to compete with first year pay and pilot cabin cleaners... A compensation committee that did ... nothing...

hilltopflyer
01-01-2019, 11:43 AM
You are mistaken....

What the legacies do with their express feed is irrelevant to this discussion... nonetheless plenty of JB pilots got their experience feeding mainline including PFT... now they feed LH and EK.

The Fly America Act contract award to JB was a loose interpretation of the rules.... But it's also an American citizen thing... you know.. USA? You don't funnel money to EK when they are violating ASAs.

JB in itself back in 2000 was an uneven playing field... how are the legacies supposed to compete with first year pay and pilot cabin cleaners... A compensation committee that did ... nothing...

But still mainline pilots have concessions on scope to have larger paychecks. If there wasnít regional airlines and a pilot got hired straight to a big three instead of a b scale Jetblue wouldnít have had a chance to get any pilots.... soooooooo your ball... but you might have gave up you scope to get a pay raise so you are going to argue it was a good thing that your old 737 routes are now being flown by 75 seat rjs

deus ex machina
01-01-2019, 11:50 AM
But still mainline pilots have concessions on scope to have larger paychecks. If there wasn’t regional airlines and a pilot got hired straight to a big three instead of a b scale Jetblue wouldn’t have had a chance to get any pilots.... soooooooo your ball... but you might have gave up you scope to get a pay raise so you are going to argue it was a good thing that your old 737 routes are now being flown by 75 seat rjs

Focus.... this is about the ability to fly to Gatwick which could be done by LH, BA, Virgin, whom ever has big jets cuz JB can't do it... and having EK do the same via Fly America Act.

How long do you think it would take for JB to get the right jet and get certified to fly the NATs?

https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/how-to-reschedule-primera-air-flight

It's a big boy world out there...

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 12:16 PM
Focus.... this is about the ability to fly to Gatwick which could be done by LH, BA, Virgin, whom ever has big jets cuz JB can't do it... and having EK do the same via Fly America Act.

How long do you think it would take for JB to get the right jet and get certified to fly the NATs?

https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/how-to-reschedule-primera-air-flight

It's a big boy world out there...

Ah, the old "ignore MY sins" bit.

deus ex machina
01-01-2019, 12:49 PM
Ah, the old "ignore MY sins" bit.

It was never about express flying... that was only used to 'ignore my sins of the Fly America act... ' a deflection...

interesting how the mind works....

pilotpayne
01-01-2019, 02:54 PM
It was never about express flying... that was only used to 'ignore my sins of the Fly America act... ' a deflection...

interesting how the mind works....

Shouldnít you take this up with the government they approved it.

Flyby1206
01-01-2019, 03:37 PM
It was never about express flying... that was only used to 'ignore my sins of the Fly America act... ' a deflection...

interesting how the mind works....

So because JB now wants to get their own metal and fly these routes instead of using the Fly America Act that's a bad thing? GFY.

deus ex machina
01-01-2019, 03:39 PM
Shouldnít you take this up with the government they approved it.

What do you think ALPA is? Do you guys understand the fundamental nature of the organization? That CBA you just inked is more than 'your world'...

Or are you good with the EK/Fly America deal at our countries expense because it's at your airlines benefit?

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 05:20 PM
What do you think ALPA is? Do you guys understand the fundamental nature of the organization? That CBA you just inked is more than 'your world'...

Or are you good with the EK/Fly America deal at our countries expense because it's at your airlines benefit?

Call me when your airline stops putting Fly America passengers on codeshare partners.

deus ex machina
01-01-2019, 05:32 PM
Call me when your airline stops putting Fly America passengers on codeshare partners.

Dude.. stop with the circular arguments... it only shows you have no clue what you are talking about.... my airline can fly all of it... we have the metal and we had the contract, you under bid us and gave it to EK because your RJs can't even make it to Ireland...

Giving a US govt contract to Emirates is a sell out to this country...

Back the OP... realistic London expansion? How? A321s? Primera Air just tanked... I provided the link...

hilltopflyer
01-01-2019, 05:40 PM
Focus.... this is about the ability to fly to Gatwick which could be done by LH, BA, Virgin, whom ever has big jets cuz JB can't do it... and having EK do the same via Fly America Act.

How long do you think it would take for JB to get the right jet and get certified to fly the NATs?

https://www.travelandleisure.com/travel-news/how-to-reschedule-primera-air-flight

It's a big boy world out there...
Soooo focus.... this is about jb flying to London not ek.... see not hard to say the same thing you did. Till you stop using and abusing regionals donít talk about it. If you guys had everything in house you wouldnít have let Jetblue get started but instead you guys wanted a b scale to make your paychecks bigger.

pilotpayne
01-01-2019, 05:41 PM
Dude.. stop with the circular arguments... it only shows you have no clue what you are talking about.... my airline can fly all of it... we have the metal and we had the contract, you under bid us and gave it to EK because your RJs can't even make it to Ireland...

Giving a US govt contract to Emirates is a sell out to this country...

Back the OP... realistic London expansion? How? A321s? Primera Air just tanked... I provided the link...

You seem very upset. I donít know why because you just said we donít have a chance. I also donít see why you are getting mad at us we have nothing to do with it. Heck our CEO was a fan of Norwegian because of trying to get access to Europe and I know our Union took an opposite position.

Again if the government wants stuff on ďAmericanĒ airlines they shouldnít have awarded JetBlue the contract...full stop. I guess they donít care as much as you do.

CaptCoolHand
01-01-2019, 06:04 PM
Exactly. All of the JVs are fine but not what we do. SMH.

I do love the ATL one. We canít even get gays together. Such a joke. The government shouldnít have allowed the big 3 to get so big.


What? Jb is all about getting gays together. Havenít you gotten your weekly pride email??

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 06:09 PM
Dude.. stop with the circular arguments... it only shows you have no clue what you are talking about.... my airline can fly all of it... we have the metal and we had the contract, you under bid us and gave it to EK because your RJs can't even make it to Ireland...

Giving a US govt contract to Emirates is a sell out to this country...

Back the OP... realistic London expansion? How? A321s? Primera Air just tanked... I provided the link...

I know exactly what I'm talking about. But maybe you should send your concerns to JB headquarters and the United States government?

txbusdriver
01-01-2019, 06:11 PM
This dumpster fire of an operation is in full meltdown. Mgmt knows it so this is them yelling ďsquirrelĒ. Meanwhile Rome is burning, but letís talk about the cute new narrobody that can boldly limp across the ocean.

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 06:28 PM
This dumpster fire of an operation is in full meltdown. Mgmt knows it so this is them yelling ďsquirrelĒ. Meanwhile Rome is burning, but letís talk about the cute new narrobody that can boldly limp across the ocean.

Agree!!!!!!!

pilotpayne
01-01-2019, 06:42 PM
What? Jb is all about getting gays together. Havenít you gotten your weekly pride email??

Gates gates gates

Bluedriver
01-01-2019, 06:52 PM
This dumpster fire of an operation is in full meltdown. Mgmt knows it so this is them yelling ďsquirrelĒ. Meanwhile Rome is burning, but letís talk about the cute new narrobody that can boldly limp across the ocean.

And more Airbus deferrals are coming, as I predicted.

hyperboy
01-01-2019, 08:01 PM
Dude.. stop with the circular arguments... it only shows you have no clue what you are talking about.... my airline can fly all of it... we have the metal and we had the contract, you under bid us and gave it to EK because your RJs can't even make it to Ireland...

Giving a US govt contract to Emirates is a sell out to this country...

Back the OP... realistic London expansion? How? A321s? Primera Air just tanked... I provided the link...

Is your last name Nelson? Nobody liked you here I am sure nobody likes you there.

pilotpayne
01-02-2019, 05:29 AM
And more Airbus deferrals are coming, as I predicted.

Do you have solid information on this?

BlueBus
01-02-2019, 05:46 AM
Is your last name Nelson? Nobody liked you here I am sure nobody likes you there.


To be fair, no one likes you either.

Edpilot23
01-02-2019, 06:59 AM
To be fair, no one likes you either.

Post of the year so far.

PasserOGas
01-02-2019, 07:43 AM
To be fair, no one likes you either.

Not true. Joanna loves him.

CaptCoolHand
01-02-2019, 10:14 AM
Gates gates gates

Oh thooper!

pilotpayne
01-02-2019, 10:26 AM
Oh thooper!

But not in mco

GuppyPuppy
01-02-2019, 11:39 AM
Is your last name Nelson? Nobody liked you here I am sure nobody likes you there.

I bet he told management at United that all the pilots in his new-hire class had the gouge, just like he did here!

UA can also be proud they hired a criminal who was sabotaging our planes out west. She's a peach!

GP

TristarJS30
01-02-2019, 11:44 AM
UA can also be proud they hired a criminal who was sabotaging our planes out west. She's a peach!

GP

I've got to hear this story.

pilotpayne
01-02-2019, 11:54 AM
I bet he told management at United that all the pilots in his new-hire class had the gouge, just like he did here!

UA can also be proud they hired a criminal who was sabotaging our planes out west. She's a peach!

GP

Iíd that the girl that dropped the RAT?

CaptCoolHand
01-02-2019, 12:22 PM
But not in mco

No! Mco is next.

Mike Bardger told me so in 2008... then 09, then some one did again in 10, 11, and 12... then it was after Boston, then after sju, Warren said Mco was next in 2015, Preist told me Mco in 2016 then in 2017 a corporate security guy told me Mco was next... Ive heard that Mco is next in 2018 from lots of people. Iím so gigity that itís happening Iím turning blue!

Sorry for the run on sentence, but after 11yrs of next I forgot what it means.

GuppyPuppy
01-02-2019, 12:36 PM
Iíd that the girl that dropped the RAT?

And a cargo pit fire bottle with rampers in it.

GP

hilltopflyer
01-02-2019, 12:39 PM
I bet he told management at United that all the pilots in his new-hire class had the gouge, just like he did here!

UA can also be proud they hired a criminal who was sabotaging our planes out west. She's a peach!

GP

She got
Hired by United?!?!?! How did she not go to jail for damaging aircraft on purpose.

pilotpayne
01-02-2019, 12:47 PM
She got
Hired by United?!?!?! How did she not go to jail for damaging aircraft on purpose.

Diversity for 10000
Alex

TristarJS30
01-02-2019, 12:54 PM
She got
Hired by United?!?!?! How did she not go to jail for damaging aircraft on purpose.

On purpose?

GuppyPuppy
01-02-2019, 01:21 PM
She got
Hired by United?!?!?! How did she not go to jail for damaging aircraft on purpose.

All circumstantial evidence.

Allowed to resign.

hilltopflyer
01-02-2019, 02:44 PM
On purpose?

Ya for some reason every plane she flew had the same sort of write ups. In the same sort of way. And on camera....

Bluedriver
01-02-2019, 05:23 PM
Do you have solid information on this?

1. They have told me check airmen of a 6 month delay in Airbus deliveries this year.

2. We are a staffing mess, and they can't open more Airbus slots for bidding because it only worsens their E190 training crisis.

pilotpayne
01-02-2019, 05:32 PM
1. They have told me check airmen of a 6 month delay in Airbus deliveries this year.

2. We are a staffing mess, and they can't open more Airbus slots for bidding because it only worsens their E190 training crisis.

Itís not like 6 months will help.
I have no clue how they will fix staffing. From what I understand they have a number they can do and thatís it. No training in other places. So even if we need more pilots on the line, oh well they can only do what they can do.
Again it all comes down to money but when we can staff flights or take on the planes we need for the new routes, that will cost them way more. But we need to wait form them to learn that as always.

Bluedriver
01-03-2019, 05:57 AM
Itís not like 6 months will help.
I have no clue how they will fix staffing. From what I understand they have a number they can do and thatís it. No training in other places. So even if we need more pilots on the line, oh well they can only do what they can do.
Again it all comes down to money but when we can staff flights or take on the planes we need for the new routes, that will cost them way more. But we need to wait form them to learn that as always.

It's possible an LOA with the union for bypass pay, or even better a 15% higher payrate for the E190. But, the company most likely won't do either.

Or they can possibly change the ops-specs to remove the dual HUDs so they can do training elsewhere, but how much time that would take is unknown.

What's worse, is they will most likely do as you say, just train what they can train. But if they go that route, Airbus deliveries WILL have to be delayed even more than 6 months (or at the very least start again as a trickle of deliveries after 6 months) and the only group that is REALLY hurt by that program is pilots with yet another seniority-list-shtt-sandwich.

Management will take all the money saved by the delayed growth and buy LHR slots or triple the stock buy-back program. For us the seniority list slows even more.

Great.

Isaiah4031
01-03-2019, 07:11 AM
220 Orders confirmed today. Funny timing with Moxy too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2019/01/03/moxie-and-jetblue-place-firm-orders-for-120-airbus-a220-aircraft/#4bf6346956ed

Bluedriver
01-03-2019, 08:04 AM
220 Orders confirmed today. Funny timing with Moxy too.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marisagarcia/2019/01/03/moxie-and-jetblue-place-firm-orders-for-120-airbus-a220-aircraft/#4bf6346956ed

Regarding Moxy, hoping it's a decoy order that is really meant for us, but most likely a large codeshare partner, unfortunately.

BeatNavy
01-03-2019, 08:09 AM
Regarding Moxy, hoping it's a decoy order that is really meant for us, but most likely a large codeshare partner, unfortunately.

JB has 60 options. Not sure a decoy order would make sense, unless they really wanted the earlier delivery slots. I donít think a codeshare makes sense with Moxy. They plan on point to point on routes that arenít served. Codesharing is really only useful to JB if it adds pax to JB metal on a connecting flight.. Itíd be like JB codesharing with allegiant. Perhaps a codeshare/JV scenario with the intent of an ultimate merger. Obviously they seem to be making these orders and decisions in lockstep, so thereís gotta be some reason for it.

Bluedriver
01-03-2019, 09:08 AM
JB has 60 options. Not sure a decoy order would make sense, unless they really wanted the earlier delivery slots. I donít think a codeshare makes sense with Moxy. They plan on point to point on routes that arenít served. Codesharing is really only useful to JB if it adds pax to JB metal on a connecting flight.. Itíd be like JB codesharing with allegiant. Perhaps a codeshare/JV scenario with the intent of an ultimate merger. Obviously they seem to be making these orders and decisions in lockstep, so thereís gotta be some reason for it.

1. Because I think they could/may want those early delivery slots, but don't want to tell the competition and/or Wall Street about it yet.

2. You're basing your codeshare assumptions on what Neeleman has SAID he is going to do with the airline. None of us know for sure what is really planned, and telling the competition 3-4 years in advance exactly what your business plan is is probably not smart, or what he is actually doing. For example, maybe he plans a large focus city in SJC, ONT or LAS and will connect his flights (all with 1st year start-up paid labor) to our network via a JB ramp up of flights from our focus citie to SJC, ONT or LAS? In other words, like I have said before many times, Moxy absolutely CAN be our West coast plan.

3. JB and Moxy placed MOUs at the SAME time, for the SAME aircraft, and later firmed up those orders at the SAME time. Saying "lock-step" might be an understatement!

The701Express
01-03-2019, 09:59 AM
I wouldn't look too much into the coincidental timing of the A220 orders. I'm pretty sure Airbus wanted the firm orders before the end of the year in order to be counted in the 2018 sales numbers. Remember Indigo's huge order at the end of last year that helped put Airbus ahead of Boeing sales?

Boeing spanked Airbus in 2018, but these orders take a bit of the sting out of it.

The701Express
01-03-2019, 11:27 AM
I wouldn't look too much into the coincidental timing of the A220 orders. I'm pretty sure Airbus wanted the firm orders before the end of the year in order to be counted in the 2018 sales numbers. Remember Indigo's huge order at the end of last year that helped put Airbus ahead of Boeing sales?

Boeing spanked Airbus in 2018, but these orders take a bit of the sting out of it.

In case those A220 sales were already part of the 2018 totals, another plausible reason for the timing of the orders is that delivery dates needed to be firmed up to get the supply chain fired up for the 2020 deliveries from Mobile. JB and Moxy are both taking deliveries from Mobile once it opens up, which explains the similar timing of announcements.

If you're looking for a good Moxy rumor that's better than an eventual merger, have one on me:

Neeleman isn't raising funds for a new airline, he's lining up investors and funds for a hostile takeover.

Flyby1206
01-03-2019, 11:37 AM
If you're looking for a good Moxy rumor that's better than an eventual merger, have one on me:

Neeleman isn't raising funds for a new airline, he's lining up investors and funds for a hostile takeover.

Spicy!!!

An old article from 2013 to add fuel to the fire:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-28/jetblue-founder-has-no-interest-in-buying-his-old-airline

David Neeleman, the serial airline entrepreneur who founded JetBlue Airways (JBLU), says heís not plotting to acquire his former company as part of a larger scheme to build a new international carrier for Brazil. Not that he doesnít think his own Brazilian upstart, Azul, could one day become a major international player.

ďWe havenít ruled out Azul expanding internationally at some point in time,Ē Neeleman said today in a telephone interview. ďThat doesnít mean we buy JetBlue.Ē

In an intriguing report, the Folha de S.Paulo newspaper said today that Neelemanówho was ousted as JetBlueís chief executive officer six years ago and is now the head of low-cost Brazilian carrier Azul Linhas Aťreas Brasileirasóis assembling an investment fund to acquire both TAP, the financially ailing Portuguese airline, and JetBlue. Brazilís development bank, according to the report, would contribute $600 million for a 20 percent stake of the fund, with the hope of creating a Brazilian carrier that could compete on the international stage.

A trio of U.S. airlinesóUnited (UAL), Delta (DAL), and Americanóhave been racing to capture the business-travel market for U.S.-Brazilian flights. (Neeleman makes a weekly commute on American between his office in S„o Paulo and his Connecticut home.) Meanwhile, Brazilís main international airlines, TAM (LFL) and GOL (GOL), which owns the traditional Varig brand, have struggled with profitability in recent years.

JetBlue spokeswoman Tamara Young said the airline doesnít comment on ďrumors or speculationĒ and is focused on building its business independently. Private equity firm TPG, an investor in Azul, declined to comment. JetBlue Chairman Joel Peterson, a Stanford University business professor, is also an Azul investor. He declined to comment, through a spokesman.

JetBlue, the sixth-largest U.S. airline by market share, remains a bit of an outlier as the U.S. airline industry has consolidated in quick fashion since the companyís 1998 founding. With American poised to merge with US Airways (LCC) later this summer, Southwest (LUV), JetBlue, and Alaska (ALK) remain the largest independent players. JetBlue shares rose more than 7 percent early today on news of the rumored merger with Azul, before giving up some of the gain, closing at 3.5 percent higher. The stock has risen about 9 percent this year.

This week, Azul delayed its initial public offering in Brazil amid market turmoil. Neeleman said the IPO isnít necessary to raise operating cash but for investors who have been waiting five years for a return. Neeleman started the airline in 2008, the same year he left JetBlue as chairman. He was born in Brazil and holds citizenship there and in the U.S. He was terminated as JetBlue CEO in May 2007, three months after a blizzard hit New York City and paralyzed JetBlueís operations for several days, leading to thousands of stranded passengers and a major public-relations nightmare for the company.

In the press release announcing his departure, Neeleman described the move as ďa natural evolution of our leadership structure as JetBlue continues to grow.Ē But in talking with him, itís clear the episode still rankles him and he considers his dismissal a mistake by the airlineís board, even as it led him to start an airline in a country that was lacking a low-cost air alternative to multi-day bus trips for many Brazilians.

As for Azulís future expansion, Neeleman said the airline isnít ready to consider long-haul flights beyond Brazil or the intricacies of assembling some kind of operation with a U.S. carrier. ďI wouldnít say never, but I do have doubts about the value of JetBlue,Ē he said. ďItís a much different company than it was six years ago when I was removed as the CEO. Thereís been a lot of issues at JetBlue, and I feel bad for the people who work there, but the leadership just hasnít been good.Ē (JetBlue did not respond to a call or e-mail about Neelemanís remarks.)

In December, Portugal suspended its efforts to sell TAP as part of the terms of its $110 billion bailout package from the European Union after receiving a bid from TACA, the Latin American airline, that was considered too low. TAPís heavy schedule of flights to Brazil is among its primary assets. Neeleman said the Brazilian government is keen to see TAP survive because it is the only international service for many northern cities. ďThey have come to us in the past about [buying] TAP,Ē he said, adding that he does not want the ďmessĒ of a European airline involved with his own ďcleanĒ company.

Bluedriver
01-03-2019, 12:54 PM
I wouldn't look too much into the coincidental timing of the A220 orders. I'm pretty sure Airbus wanted the firm orders before the end of the year in order to be counted in the 2018 sales numbers. Remember Indigo's huge order at the end of last year that helped put Airbus ahead of Boeing sales?

Boeing spanked Airbus in 2018, but these orders take a bit of the sting out of it.

They also placed the original order at the same time and chose the same aircraft and model. Time will tell if it's more than a coincidence.

Bluedriver
01-03-2019, 12:55 PM
Neeleman isn't raising funds for a new airline, he's lining up investors and funds for a hostile takeover.

Could be, we are so CHEAP right now.

The701Express
01-03-2019, 01:43 PM
Spicy!!!

An old article from 2013 to add fuel to the fire:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-06-28/jetblue-founder-has-no-interest-in-buying-his-old-airline


This forum needs a higher quality rumor, I'm just trying to keep things interesting :cool:

I hadn't seen that article before. I don't think Neeleman has any shortage of ambition remaining to make something big happen.

The701Express
01-03-2019, 01:50 PM
Could be, we are so CHEAP right now.

It's absolutely a long shot and probably won't come to be. This is mostly just me stirring the pot, but I try to not discount Neeleman and his drive.

He could have retired rich and comfortable years ago and instead runs airlines on two, soon to be three continents. Whatever form it takes, I don't think he's done yet. Considering how often he talks with Robin, I think JB is likely to be involved one way or another.

Flyby1206
01-03-2019, 02:02 PM
This forum needs a higher quality rumor, I'm just trying to keep things interesting :cool:

I hadn't seen that article before. I don't think Neeleman has any shortage of ambition remaining to make something big happen.

Well done!

The article is old, but interesting. It shows these types speak loads of BS, talking about how he doesnít want TAP since itís Ďdirtyí, Azul isnít read for long haul wide body flights, and not interested in JB since itís overvalued.

Donít forget, United already owns a chunk of Azul and is cozy with Neeleman. Announcement on the 15th!

deus ex machina
01-03-2019, 02:11 PM
Donít forget, United already owns a chunk of Azul and is cozy with Neeleman. Announcement on the 15th!

United knows leaving JFK was a huge mistake.... United wants back in...

Rabid Seagull
01-03-2019, 03:28 PM
Donít forget, United already owns a chunk of Azul and is cozy with Neeleman. Announcement on the 15th![/QUOTE]

Which new/developing airline gains from a merger and the required divestiture? Announcement on the next crop cycle!

Ted Striker
01-03-2019, 03:42 PM
United knows leaving JFK was a huge mistake.... United wants back in...

From how airlines tout how lucrative the transcon and transatlatic market is, then sprinkle in the amount of corporate accounts to be had from JFK/BOS and the real estate Jetblue has there especially in JFK T5/6/7, add some DCA/LAX/SFO in there as well. Iím sure itís been evaluated and the numbers have been crunched, itís just a matter of what that number is and when it makes financial sense for the share holders. Itís all about real estate and slots for airlines moving forward.

Triggs
01-03-2019, 03:49 PM
In case those A220 sales were already part of the 2018 totals, another plausible reason for the timing of the orders is that delivery dates needed to be firmed up to get the supply chain fired up for the 2020 deliveries from Mobile. JB and Moxy are both taking deliveries from Mobile once it opens up, which explains the similar timing of announcements.

If you're looking for a good Moxy rumor that's better than an eventual merger, have one on me:

Neeleman isn't raising funds for a new airline, he's lining up investors and funds for a hostile takeover.

He may have already done it

Bluedriver
01-03-2019, 04:18 PM
It's absolutely a long shot and probably won't come to be. This is mostly just me stirring the pot, but I try to not discount Neeleman and his drive.

He could have retired rich and comfortable years ago and instead runs airlines on two, soon to be three continents. Whatever form it takes, I don't think he's done yet. Considering how often he talks with Robin, I think JB is likely to be involved one way or another.

It's not at all that far-fetched. I believe there is absolutely something coordinated going on between JB and Moxy/Neeleman.

Bluedriver
01-03-2019, 04:19 PM
He may have already done it

Explain your evidence for believing that it's already done?

pilotpayne
01-03-2019, 07:25 PM
In case those A220 sales were already part of the 2018 totals, another plausible reason for the timing of the orders is that delivery dates needed to be firmed up to get the supply chain fired up for the 2020 deliveries from Mobile. JB and Moxy are both taking deliveries from Mobile once it opens up, which explains the similar timing of announcements.

If you're looking for a good Moxy rumor that's better than an eventual merger, have one on me:

Neeleman isn't raising funds for a new airline, he's lining up investors and funds for a hostile takeover.


Well that could be entertaining.
Although RH says he talks to DN a bunch so maybe it wonít be so hostile after all.

I donít see why the DN point to point idea canít work with an existing JetBlue.

I could also see him coming back as the savior of JetBlue. Bring the airline back to what it was save the culture and employees....lots of good PR there.

Interesting times ahead. Good thing Gigs got seatbelts on all of our ground equipment we are going to need it.

CaptCoolHand
01-04-2019, 05:30 AM
1. They have told me check airmen of a 6 month delay in Airbus deliveries this year.

2. We are a staffing mess, and they can't open more Airbus slots for bidding because it only worsens their E190 training crisis.

They tell check airmen all kinds of crap... 330's to TLV, MCI next, AUS base, central load planning, VIASAT II, the list of jb's we're gonna is long. Listening to a CKA is almost as useful as FA's when it comes to rumor's like that.

They don't see it as a staffing mess, they see it as maximum utilization of resources.

Until it's in a 10K you're really just making things up. Which is mostly what we do on here right? opinion and conjecture?

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 05:42 AM
They tell check airmen all kinds of crap... 330's to TLV, MCI next, AUS base, central load planning, VIASAT II, the list of jb's we're gonna is long. Listening to a CKA is almost as useful as FA's when it comes to rumor's like that.

They don't see it as a staffing mess, they see it as maximum utilization of resources.

Until it's in a 10K you're really just making things up. Which is mostly what we do on here right? opinion and conjecture?

We are a staffing mess from the standpoint of e190 training. They already have more e190 training backlog then they have resources to handle it, no contingency plan, and no way to open up additional A320 positions without creating even more e190 training events!

And RSAs everyday with crew cancellations, on GOOD WEATHER DAYS!

Not sure why you are arguing this with me? Can you honestly not see the above?

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 05:57 AM
1. Because I think they could/may want those early delivery slots, but don't want to tell the competition and/or Wall Street about it yet.

2. You're basing your codeshare assumptions on what Neeleman has SAID he is going to do with the airline. None of us know for sure what is really planned, and telling the competition 3-4 years in advance exactly what your business plan is is probably not smart, or what he is actually doing. For example, maybe he plans a large focus city in SJC, ONT or LAS and will connect his flights (all with 1st year start-up paid labor) to our network via a JB ramp up of flights from our focus citie to SJC, ONT or LAS? In other words, like I have said before many times, Moxy absolutely CAN be our West coast plan.

3. JB and Moxy placed MOUs at the SAME time, for the SAME aircraft, and later firmed up those orders at the SAME time. Saying "lock-step" might be an understatement!

To add to my previous 3 points quoted above, everyone always says the West coast has too much competition, and it's hard to break in.

Well what if you could start a large focus city in SJC and/or ONT and/or LAS with the MOST efficient (lowest CASM/cost per seat) aircraft, while utilizing ALL low cost labor (1st year pilots in both seats plus 1st year everyone) and significant feed from a very cozy codeshare with a large East coast airline feeding traffic onto your SJC, ONT and LAS network?

I'm reaching the point where I'm ready to bet money or beer that the timing and coordination of these A220-300s is NO coincidence.

Flyby1206
01-04-2019, 06:05 AM
To add to my previous 3 points quoted above, everyone always says the West coast has too much competition, and it's hard to break in.

Well what if you could start a large focus city in SJC and/or ONT and/or LAS with the MOST efficient (lowest CASM/cost per seat) aircraft, while utilizing ALL low cost labor (1st year pilots in both seats plus 1st year everyone) and significant feed from a very cozy codeshare with a large East coast airline feeding traffic onto your SJC, ONT and LAS network?

I'm reaching the point where I'm ready to bet money or beer that the timing and coordination of these A220-300s is NO coincidence.

Why limit yourself? Alaska and Southwest are big on the west coast and could provide much more feed. Or forget the feed all together and just position Moxy as a buyout candidate for Alaska or Southwest (and Jetblue) to gobble up. 3 way bidding war, maybe more if the legacies show interest in the A220.

Cheap planes, young pilots, no hassle buyout. Neeleman gets richer.

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 06:41 AM
Why limit yourself? Alaska and Southwest are big on the west coast and could provide much more feed. Or forget the feed all together and just position Moxy as a buyout candidate for Alaska or Southwest (and Jetblue) to gobble up. 3 way bidding war, maybe more if the legacies show interest in the A220.

Cheap planes, young pilots, no hassle buyout. Neeleman gets richer.

Because I think this is JB's west coast plan. Use this "codeshare partner" to start a West coast network with costs so low we couldn't do it and the competition can't compete with it. Then after the network is developed we eventually aquire Moxy (like we tried to do with Virgin and Frontier). All pre-planned and pre-ordained with Neeleman who doesn't seem to have a bad relationship with Robbing or Joel Peterson.

We aren't doing this for feed for us so much as a way to start a West coast network that has all the advantages stated above. Without helping or strengthening Alaska. SWA pilots contract wouldn't allow what you said anyway.

And Neeleman still gets richer, and maybe even returns to JB one way or another.

CaptCoolHand
01-04-2019, 06:46 AM
We are a staffing mess from the standpoint of e190 training. They already have more e190 training backlog then they have resources to handle it, no contingency plan, and no way to open up additional A320 positions without creating even more e190 training events!

And RSAs everyday with crew cancellations, on GOOD WEATHER DAYS!

Not sure why you are arguing this with me? Can you honestly not see the above?

Honestly yes I see it, but there's zero evidence of differals of any aircraft at this point.

pilotpayne
01-04-2019, 06:46 AM
We are a staffing mess from the standpoint of e190 training. They already have more e190 training backlog then they have resources to handle it, no contingency plan, and no way to open up additional A320 positions without creating even more e190 training events!

And RSAs everyday with crew cancellations, on GOOD WEATHER DAYS!

Not sure why you are arguing this with me? Can you honestly not see the above?

Rule 1 of APC thou shall not argue with BD :)

But I do agree even hyerboy does they have a training mess on their hands.

BunkerF16
01-04-2019, 06:48 AM
Because I think this is JB's west coast plan. Use this "codeshare partner" to start a West coast network with costs so low we couldn't do it and the competition can't compete with it. Then after the network is developed we eventually aquire Moxy (like we tried to do with Virgin and Frontier). All pre-planned and pre-ordained with Neeleman who doesn't seem to have a bad relationship with Robbing or Joel Peterson.

We aren't doing this for feed for us so much as a way to start a West coast network that has all the advantages stated above. Without helping or strengthening Alaska. SWA pilots contract wouldn't allow what you said anyway.

And Neeleman still gets richer, and maybe even returns to JB one way or another.

How does our Scope clause limit code sharing with them? Everyone keeps telling me how awesome our Scope is. Maybe as good as our industry leading pairing construction language, eh?

aldonite7667
01-04-2019, 06:52 AM
How does our Scope clause limit code sharing with them? Everyone keeps telling me how awesome our Scope is. Maybe as good as our industry leading pairing construction language, eh?

Maybe you should re-read that section or call your rep regarding this, itís important you understand. Itís good protection.

PasserOGas
01-04-2019, 07:04 AM
How does our Scope clause limit code sharing with them? Everyone keeps telling me how awesome our Scope is. Maybe as good as our industry leading pairing construction language, eh?

Unlimited code sharing. It's good protection.

CaptCoolHand
01-04-2019, 07:19 AM
Unlimited code sharing. It's good protection.

Yep... all flying will now be assigned to new code shares.

section CBA 1F

It's gonna happen. In fact a company without an operating certificate or planes currently will soon fly all our west coast operations.

BunkerF16
01-04-2019, 07:21 AM
Maybe you should re-read that section or call your rep regarding this, itís important you understand. Itís good protection.


Thanks for your productive input to the conversation.

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 10:20 AM
Honestly yes I see it, but there's zero evidence of differals of any aircraft at this point.

Well they can't staff A320 deliveries. We are supposed to get 13 A321s THIS year, yet no vacancies posted for them. They are telling check airmen of a 6 month delay in deliveries.

I have been predicting additional Airbus deferrals, you say no. I guess we'll find out.

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 10:22 AM
How does our Scope clause limit code sharing with them? Everyone keeps telling me how awesome our Scope is. Maybe as good as our industry leading pairing construction language, eh?

You KNOW our scope doesn't prevent what I'm saying... So yes, it's just as effective as our industry leading pairing construction.

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 10:24 AM
Maybe you should re-read that section or call your rep regarding this, itís important you understand. Itís good protection.

Our scope allows my scenario. And recall JB demanded we give them domestic codeshare. They don't demand something they don't intend to use.

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 10:26 AM
Yep... all flying will now be assigned to new code shares.

section CBA 1F

It's gonna happen. In fact a company without an operating certificate or planes currently will soon fly all our west coast operations.

Did I say all flying? No. Moxy is very likely our plan for the West coast.

Do you have a SHRED of evidence that JB has ANY organic plan for the West coast?

Flyby1206
01-04-2019, 10:40 AM
Because I think this is JB's west coast plan. Use this "codeshare partner" to start a West coast network with costs so low we couldn't do it and the competition can't compete with it. Then after the network is developed we eventually aquire Moxy (like we tried to do with Virgin and Frontier). All pre-planned and pre-ordained with Neeleman who doesn't seem to have a bad relationship with Robbing or Joel Peterson.

We aren't doing this for feed for us so much as a way to start a West coast network that has all the advantages stated above. Without helping or strengthening Alaska. SWA pilots contract wouldn't allow what you said anyway.

And Neeleman still gets richer, and maybe even returns to JB one way or another.

You may be right that this is JB's new west coast plan. Keep in mind that Virgin was our west coast plan, right up until Alaska paid billion$ for it. Just saying this could easily happen again with Moxy.

Triggs
01-04-2019, 11:25 AM
Explain your evidence for believing that it's already done?

Didnít say I had evidence that he had. Just speculating since at least one supplemental carrier has been bought out by a company backed by an investment firm, as well as maintenance companies and a company that provides both above and below the wing services :cool:

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 11:47 AM
You may be right that this is JB's new west coast plan. Keep in mind that Virgin was our west coast plan, right up until Alaska paid billion$ for it. Just saying this could easily happen again with Moxy.

Indeed. But I think the plans for the eventual sale/acquisition are baked into the cake with Neeleman.

Time will tell I guess.

hyperboy
01-04-2019, 11:48 AM
Did I say all flying? No. Moxy is very likely our plan for the West coast.

Do you have a SHRED of evidence that JB has ANY organic plan for the West coast?


Very likely.....?

hyperboy
01-04-2019, 11:50 AM
Our scope allows my scenario. And recall JB demanded we give them domestic codeshare. They don't demand something they don't intend to use.


There is not much money in domestic codeshare unless it is a means to your end game you talk of.....Then we fly ALL the airplanes!

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 01:19 PM
Very likely.....?

Just say you disagree. That's fine. Take your position, I've taken mine.

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 01:21 PM
There is not much money in domestic codeshare unless it is a means to your end game you talk of.....Then we fly ALL the airplanes!

Yes, it is a means to an end, but don't be so excited about the end game. It means a bunch of guys hired in 2020 will eventually get ratiod in with JB pilots hired a decade earlier.

hyperboy
01-04-2019, 01:52 PM
Yes, it is a means to an end, but don't be so excited about the end game. It means a bunch of guys hired in 2020 will eventually get ratiod in with JB pilots hired a decade earlier.

In your case they would have to hire pilots at Moxy right? Then why would anybody go there when all the other airlines are hiring?

Bluedriver
01-04-2019, 01:54 PM
In your case they would have to hire pilots at Moxy right? Then why would anybody go there when all the other airlines are hiring?

Chance to be number 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... on a seniority list of an airline started by a dude with a history of starting successful airlines. And guys went to Spirit and Frontier, and JB, with SHAT pay. So yeah, they'll go to Moxy.

Varsity
01-04-2019, 07:04 PM
In your case they would have to hire pilots at Moxy right? Then why would anybody go there when all the other airlines are hiring?

Neeleman is 3 for 3 in starting airlines. Basically an enigma in an industry plagued by failure.

deus ex machina
01-04-2019, 08:01 PM
Neeleman is 3 for 3 in starting airlines. Basically an enigma in an industry plagued by failure.

Here is one for Neeleman....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tp10gvuUC3M

hyperboy
01-05-2019, 08:47 AM
Chance to be number 1, 2, 3, 4, etc... on a seniority list of an airline started by a dude with a history of starting successful airlines. And guys went to Spirit and Frontier, and JB, with SHAT pay. So yeah, they'll go to Moxy.

Like Skybus?

Bluedriver
01-05-2019, 11:02 AM
Like Skybus?

From my post: "an airline started by a dude with a history of starting successful airlines."

You struggle with basic concepts of communication.

Bluedriver
02-01-2019, 04:12 AM
Well they can't staff A320 deliveries. We are supposed to get 13 A321s THIS year, yet no vacancies posted for them. They are telling check airmen of a 6 month delay in deliveries.

I have been predicting additional Airbus deferrals, you (Coolhand) say no. I guess we'll find out.

I guess we found out.

Bluedriver
02-01-2019, 04:13 AM
Honestly yes I see it, but there's zero evidence of differals of any aircraft at this point.

Some people see things coming, others are unable.

Flyby1206
02-01-2019, 05:01 AM
I guess we found out.

Staffing isnít the reason for the deferrals, PW engine issues are the cause. We arenít the only ones not taking the planned amount of deliveries either.

PasserOGas
02-01-2019, 05:31 AM
Staffing isnít the reason for the deferrals, PW engine issues are the cause. We arenít the only ones not taking the planned amount of deliveries either.

Are the PW engine issues causing us to push back the 220s ? Hmmm.

Honestly I think it has less to do with staffing and more to do with no vision or idea where to expand. The ELT seems quite happy stalling hull growth. When the retrofits are complete what will our ASM growth be? 1-2%?

cmesoar
02-01-2019, 05:32 AM
Staffing isnít the reason for the deferrals, PW engine issues are the cause. We arenít the only ones not taking the planned amount of deliveries either.

You are correct, but I caution you. Some on here belong on bluepilots and can't accept these facts. Are we staffed properly? No we are not across the board. But with the tools management has such as supplemental bidding, and RSA/VDAs, I am sure they are not worried about differing planes due to staffing.

cmesoar
02-01-2019, 05:34 AM
Are the PW engine issues causing us to push back the 220s ? Hmmm.

Honestly I think it has less to do with staffing and more to do with no vision or idea where to expand. The ELT seems quite happy stalling hull growth. When the retrofits are complete what will our ASM growth be? 1-2%?

I agree the vision is almost non existent. But Delta is deferring their 220s as well I believe I read the other day.

Flyby1206
02-01-2019, 05:45 AM
You are correct, but I caution you. Some on here belong on bluepilots and can't accept these facts. Are we staffed properly? No we are not across the board. But with the tools management has such as supplemental bidding, and RSA/VDAs, I am sure they are not worried about differing planes due to staffing.

Im just trying to keep reality in sight for some on here. Yes, we arenít taking as many planes as planned. But not everything in the world is a result of JetBlue being inept or poor staffing. Also, the pilots view of Ďadequate staffingí is light years away from the company view of adequate staffing. We are adequately staffed from their point of view (or at least very close to it).

lennybruce
02-01-2019, 05:46 AM
Are the PW engine issues causing us to push back the 220s ? Hmmm.

Honestly I think it has less to do with staffing and more to do with no vision or idea where to expand. The ELT seems quite happy stalling hull growth. When the retrofits are complete what will our ASM growth be? 1-2%?

Could it be because they're unable to get slots? - https://airlineinfo.com/ostpdf103/392.pdf

Flyby1206
02-01-2019, 05:46 AM
I agree the vision is almost non existent. But Delta is deferring their 220s as well I believe I read the other day.

Whaaat?!?! Delta must have poor staffing and inept management ;)

Flyby1206
02-01-2019, 05:57 AM
Are the PW engine issues causing us to push back the 220s ? Hmmm.

Honestly I think it has less to do with staffing and more to do with no vision or idea where to expand. The ELT seems quite happy stalling hull growth. When the retrofits are complete what will our ASM growth be? 1-2%?

Delivery line issues getting Mobile set up for A220 production.

Bluedriver
02-01-2019, 06:03 AM
Staffing isnít the reason for the deferrals, PW engine issues are the cause. We arenít the only ones not taking the planned amount of deliveries either.

I respect you, but I think this is naive. It's true there are NEO availability problems, but JB is more than happy to take these delivery delays. If they wanted 13 aircraft, they'd get them. We are a VERY important customer for Airbus and Airbus would accommodate us if we actually WANTED them.

We do indeed have a staffing problem in the form of a training backlog on the E190 that is so bad we searched the planet for more Sim time with no luck. And we can't open the necessary vacancies for the A320 deliveries because open Airbus vacancies only serves to open a nearly equal number of ADDITIONAL E190 vacancies.

We were supposed to take 13 Airbuses this year, yet the last system bids had very very few Airbus vacancies, which means they new they wouldn't take all 13 Airbuses this year, because they can't train enough E190 guys.

Also, it's not a coincidence as Navy pointed out that this year the company also has to staff for next year's new vacation allocation. So as he rightly points out this is a catch-up year for staffing, which again reinforces that we were more than willing to raise our hand to Airbus to help them accommodate Airbuses NEO delays.

I guarantee if JB wanted 13 aircraft, Airbus would tell other smaller customers around the world to eat a D. We don't want 13 aircraft this year. I saw this coming, no matter how the delay is "branded" weeks/months ago.

full of luv
02-01-2019, 06:05 AM
Whaaat?!?! Delta must have poor staffing and inept management ;)

Not familiar with JB PWA, but there is a whole section in the Delta PWA concerning mandatory minimum staffing levels.

No matter, at any one moment, the pilot who cannot get Super Bowl off will say we are critically undermanned, and the pilot who complains they can't get their 3rd GS (overtime) trip for the month will say the category is overmanned.

Flyby1206
02-01-2019, 06:08 AM
I respect you, but I think this is naive. It's true there are NEO availability problems, but JB is more than happy to take these delivery delays. If they wanted 13 aircraft, they'd get them. We are a V

Like Lufthansa not getting deliveries so they can retire their 30+ yr old A320s? The PW engine has problems still and that is the choke point. Bearing #3 has higher than allowable operating temps, so a software fix is being tested to see if it will lower the temps to a better level.

Many big name carriers who are supposed to get NEOs this year are getting deliveries reduced because of this. Youíre blinded by your hatred for JB.

Bluedriver
02-01-2019, 06:13 AM
Im just trying to keep reality in sight for some on here. Yes, we arenít taking as many planes as planned. But not everything in the world is a result of JetBlue being inept or poor staffing. Also, the pilots view of Ďadequate staffingí is light years away from the company view of adequate staffing. We are adequately staffed from their point of view (or at least very close to it).

The staffing problem I speak of is an E190 training logjam. You can't create more A320 vacancies because they come almost 1 for 1 from the E190 because of the new and improved 20% pay differential. So more Airbuses cause an equal amount of of ADDITIONAL E190 training. We have scoured the Earth for E190 Sim time but came up empty handed.

Bluedriver
02-01-2019, 06:15 AM
I agree the vision is almost non existent. But Delta is deferring their 220s as well I believe I read the other day.

Delta didn't defer the A220, they delayed the beginning of A220 service because of the government shut down. In fact Delta JUST ordered more A220s even though JB said there were no earlier A220 delivery slots (wrong).

Mattio
02-01-2019, 07:16 AM
Can JB realistically expand its network over the Atlantic?
Is it a calculated assessment based on the necessity to keep up with Delta real expansion plan from BOS to EU or ...
Can the JB 320 fly 3500 mi eastbound and westbound over the pond?

The only reason we threatened Europe flying is so bigger airlines would think about buying us to prevent competition, IMO. I think that explains everything our management does. Thinking about immediate bottom line only. They've played almost all the cards to help to get bought. There's one or two left so I think we see the last couple cards get played soon. Threaten to merge with another LCC and thus be a bigger threat to the majors with potential rapid network expansion or actually merge/buy another smaller carrier(s) and start to become a bigger threat - and if we find a surprising amount of success, maybe stop posturing to get bought and just try to become a challenger to the big 4. Hopefully, if that happens, it will be a merger/acquisition of another company with better management and system operations and we can benefit from their expertise.

Bluedriver
02-01-2019, 08:48 AM
I respect you, but I think this is naive. It's true there are NEO availability problems, but JB is more than happy to take these delivery delays. If they wanted 13 aircraft, they'd get them. We are a VERY important customer for Airbus and Airbus would accommodate us if we actually WANTED them.

We do indeed have a staffing problem in the form of a training backlog on the E190 that is so bad we searched the planet for more Sim time with no luck. And we can't open the necessary vacancies for the A320 deliveries because open Airbus vacancies only serves to open a nearly equal number of ADDITIONAL E190 vacancies.

We were supposed to take 13 Airbuses this year, yet the last system bids had very very few Airbus vacancies, which means they new they wouldn't take all 13 Airbuses this year, because they can't train enough E190 guys.

Also, it's not a coincidence as Navy pointed out that this year the company also has to staff for next year's new vacation allocation. So as he rightly points out this is a catch-up year for staffing, which again reinforces that we were more than willing to raise our hand to Airbus to help them accommodate Airbuses NEO delays.

I guarantee if JB wanted 13 aircraft, Airbus would tell other smaller customers around the world to eat a D. We don't want 13 aircraft this year. I saw this coming, no matter how the delay is "branded" weeks/months ago.

We have an E190 training logjam. If we create a bunch of new vacancies for the A320 (we haven't), those A320 vacancies come nearly 1 for 1 from the E190 creating ADDITIONAL E190 training, which they CANNOT keep up with.

In addition, JB must add additional staffing in general this year for new work rules and 2020 vacation allocation for peak periods.

Anyone who thought JB would or could or would or could or was going to take 13 A321 deliveries this year, plus increase staffing for new contract work rule/vacation implementation is an absolute EPIC fool.

They can "brand" this 2019 A321 delivery delay/reduction any way they want, and the idoit brigade will buy it outright. But bottom line, they were never going to plus-up staffing for the contract, and staff 13 A321 deliveries this year, and with the E190 training logjam they literally can't.

benzoate
02-01-2019, 10:58 AM
The only reason we threatened Europe flying is so bigger airlines would think about buying us to prevent competition, IMO. I think that explains everything our management does. Thinking about immediate bottom line only. They've played almost all the cards to help to get bought. There's one or two left so I think we see the last couple cards get played soon. Threaten to merge with another LCC and thus be a bigger threat to the majors with potential rapid network expansion or actually merge/buy another smaller carrier(s) and start to become a bigger threat - and if we find a surprising amount of success, maybe stop posturing to get bought and just try to become a challenger to the big 4. Hopefully, if that happens, it will be a merger/acquisition of another company with better management and system operations and we can benefit from their expertise.

Agreed. The Forbes article regarding this issue was interesting to say the least. When we get bought I just hope we get something out of it. Spirit or Frontier do very little.

Softpayman
02-01-2019, 01:08 PM
Spirit or Frontier do very little.

Maybe/Maybe not. Job security. The model seems to work. Be cheapest, they will come.

Flyby1206
02-02-2019, 06:27 AM
Agreed. The Forbes article regarding this issue was interesting to say the least. When we get bought I just hope we get something out of it. Spirit or Frontier do very little.

Yea I agree to an extent. Spirit brings some nice FLL gate space which would instantly make us the largest carrier by a long shot over anyone else and help prevent SWA from getting a big footprint there. Frontier doesnít really bring much except some Airbus orders.

n606tw
02-02-2019, 12:50 PM
Agreed. The Forbes article regarding this issue was interesting to say the least. When we get bought I just hope we get something out of it. Spirit or Frontier do very little.

Well if nobody actually bought JB in 2018 ... nobody will never put an offer in 2019 ...

Flyby1206
02-02-2019, 01:04 PM
Well if nobody actually bought JB in 2018 ... nobody will never put an offer in 2019 ...

I think we are a valid threat to the TATL markets that are currently controlled by the large alliances in two ways.

Small NB capacity added with a focus on Mint seats would cut into their main revenue driver. No, we wouldnít be stealing hoards of customer from them but no doubt it would be enough to notice. Much like we changed the landscape for transcon LAX/SFO markets.

Additionally, JB is being a serious thorn in the side of regulatory agencies in the US and EU. If this continues and these agencies actually start to review/overturn some of the existing JV agreements then that would be catastrophic for the established legacies. Imagine if AA/BA can no longer collude on pricing/schedules and/or are required to divest a number of LHR slots. Then the same with DL/VS, then onto CDG/AMS and South America, Asia, etc. HUGE repercussions.

Point being, the Big 3 might want to Ďeliminateí the threat before it gets worse. Buy JB now or pay the price (lost revenue, destroyed JVs, lost slots/gates) later.

pilotpayne
02-02-2019, 01:46 PM
I think we are a valid threat to the TATL markets that are currently controlled by the large alliances in two ways.

Small NB capacity added with a focus on Mint seats would cut into their main revenue driver. No, we wouldnít be stealing hoards of customer from them but no doubt it would be enough to notice. Much like we changed the landscape for transcon LAX/SFO markets.

Additionally, JB is being a serious thorn in the side of regulatory agencies in the US and EU. If this continues and these agencies actually start to review/overturn some of the existing JV agreements then that would be catastrophic for the established legacies. Imagine if AA/BA can no longer collude on pricing/schedules and/or are required to divest a number of LHR slots. Then the same with DL/VS, then onto CDG/AMS and South America, Asia, etc. HUGE repercussions.

Point being, the Big 3 might want to Ďeliminateí the threat before it gets worse. Buy JB now or pay the price (lost revenue, destroyed JVs, lost slots/gates) later.

In other words shut us up.

It is interesting. All it takes is a review.
JetBlue could once again market themselves as taking on the big guys and fighting for passengers and all of that junk. As you said if they win something dominoes might start falling.

The transcon market is the blueprint. They took something that was one of our worst performers and turned it into our best at the same time making the big guys invest in products and lower prices to fight with us. Wall st and common knowledge said it would be a flop thatís hardly the case. Like it or not sitting on hubs in Bos and Jfk JetBlue could be in a position to do some damage.
Kill us buy us or compete

N6279P
02-02-2019, 02:13 PM
I think we are a valid threat to the TATL markets that are currently controlled by the large alliances in two ways.

Small NB capacity added with a focus on Mint seats would cut into their main revenue driver. No, we wouldnít be stealing hoards of customer from them but no doubt it would be enough to notice. Much like we changed the landscape for transcon LAX/SFO markets.

Additionally, JB is being a serious thorn in the side of regulatory agencies in the US and EU. If this continues and these agencies actually start to review/overturn some of the existing JV agreements then that would be catastrophic for the established legacies. Imagine if AA/BA can no longer collude on pricing/schedules and/or are required to divest a number of LHR slots. Then the same with DL/VS, then onto CDG/AMS and South America, Asia, etc. HUGE repercussions.

Point being, the Big 3 might want to Ďeliminateí the threat before it gets worse. Buy JB now or pay the price (lost revenue, destroyed JVs, lost slots/gates) later.

You know you canít just go to the store and buy London slots, right?

PasserOGas
02-02-2019, 02:25 PM
I think we are a valid threat to the TATL markets that are currently controlled by the large alliances in two ways.

Small NB capacity added with a focus on Mint seats would cut into their main revenue driver. No, we wouldnít be stealing hoards of customer from them but no doubt it would be enough to notice. Much like we changed the landscape for transcon LAX/SFO markets.

Additionally, JB is being a serious thorn in the side of regulatory agencies in the US and EU. If this continues and these agencies actually start to review/overturn some of the existing JV agreements then that would be catastrophic for the established legacies. Imagine if AA/BA can no longer collude on pricing/schedules and/or are required to divest a number of LHR slots. Then the same with DL/VS, then onto CDG/AMS and South America, Asia, etc. HUGE repercussions.

Point being, the Big 3 might want to Ďeliminateí the threat before it gets worse. Buy JB now or pay the price (lost revenue, destroyed JVs, lost slots/gates) later.


One problem. We don't go to Europe.

Also, Spirit/Frontier are hurting literally everyone, including us. No one is tendering offers

Flyby1206
02-02-2019, 03:35 PM
You know you can’t just go to the store and buy London slots, right?

No, but if they succeed in busting some JVs then slots will be divested. Even if JB winds up getting zero slots from that divestiture, the damage is done to the legacies.

Also willing to bet EK and some of the ME3 would love to lease/sell some slots to JB for verrrrry reasonable rates. If nothing else then for entertainment factor.

One problem. We don't go to Europe.

Also, Spirit/Frontier are hurting literally everyone, including us. No one is tendering offers

We dont need to go to Europe to be a serious threat to legacies. JB can put political pressure on EU/US to break JVs and that is all that is needed. It might even be more advantageous for JB NOT to go to Europe, but to continue to bust JVs, then watch the ULCC TATL carriers run in and grab LHR slots to dump capacity into prime routes. We can come in to collect the pieces (slots) when they have done their damage and run themselves dry.

benzoate
02-02-2019, 04:16 PM
Yea I agree to an extent. Spirit brings some nice FLL gate space which would instantly make us the largest carrier by a long shot over anyone else and help prevent SWA from getting a big footprint there. Frontier doesnít really bring much except some Airbus orders.

I guess my point was being acquired/merging with Spirit/Frontier does get us better pay, benefits, schedules, retirement or variety of flying. UAL, DAL or AA does.

That was really my point.

A tie up with AK makes more sense to me but if Im hoping for a better career UAL or DAL would be best. Thats all gents.

Flyby1206
02-02-2019, 04:20 PM
I guess my point was being acquired/merging with Spirit/Frontier does get us better pay, benefits, schedules, retirement or variety of flying. UAL, DAL or AA does.

That was really my point.

A tie up with AK makes more sense to me but if Im hoping for a better career UAL or DAL would be best. Thats all gents.

100% agree, sorry for the misunderstanding.

pilotpayne
02-02-2019, 05:46 PM
No, but if they succeed in busting some JVs then slots will be divested. Even if JB winds up getting zero slots from that divestiture, the damage is done to the legacies.

Also willing to bet EK and some of the ME3 would love to lease/sell some slots to JB for verrrrry reasonable rates. If nothing else then for entertainment factor.



We dont need to go to Europe to be a serious threat to legacies. JB can put political pressure on EU/US to break JVs and that is all that is needed. It might even be more advantageous for JB NOT to go to Europe, but to continue to bust JVs, then watch the ULCC TATL carriers run in and grab LHR slots to dump capacity into prime routes. We can come in to collect the pieces (slots) when they have done their damage and run themselves dry.



Things that make you go hmmmm

FRNTOFWAVE
02-03-2019, 04:46 PM
I love reading these post, always hoping to get bought out. Pure speculation and wishful thinking. If you want a better career, apply like the rest of us and get hired at a legacy.

GuppyPuppy
02-03-2019, 04:50 PM
I love reading these post, always hoping to get bought out. Pure speculation and wishful thinking. If you want a better career, apply like the rest of us and get hired at a legacy.

Gee, what a great idea!

Never thought of that. Thanks for the insight.

Cheers!

Gup

Bluedriver
02-03-2019, 04:51 PM
I love reading these post, always hoping to get bought out. Pure speculation and wishful thinking. If you want a better career, apply like the rest of us and get hired at a legacy.

Honestly, if JB would get some actual leadership and find a rudder, I'd want nothing to do with any legacy.

But ....

Flyby1206
02-03-2019, 04:53 PM
I love reading these post, always hoping to get bought out. Pure speculation and wishful thinking. If you want a better career, apply like the rest of us and get hired at a legacy.

You gonna get out your "Hired, not acquired" bag stickers?

PasserOGas
02-03-2019, 05:52 PM
You gonna get out your "Hired, not acquired" bag stickers?

Dude, I would be getting "I didnt go though UALs interview process and all I got was the same job" bag tags.

pilotpayne
02-03-2019, 06:43 PM
I love reading these post, always hoping to get bought out. Pure speculation and wishful thinking. If you want a better career, apply like the rest of us and get hired at a legacy.

Well I can see why they hired you.

Bluedriver
02-03-2019, 06:47 PM
Dude, I would be getting "I didnt go though UALs interview process and all I got was the same job" bag tags.

Love it...

benzoate
02-05-2019, 06:41 AM
I love reading these post, always hoping to get bought out. Pure speculation and wishful thinking. If you want a better career, apply like the rest of us and get hired at a legacy.
Iíll be coming in the backstory via merger with United. Totally my plan all along.

Ted Striker
02-07-2019, 02:05 PM
Anyone else read that filing today for JV review. They stated that they do not have any LHR slots presently or AMS. But that CDG, they could easily get. Why tease LHR so hard, when we donít even have slots to go there?

Flyby1206
02-07-2019, 02:49 PM
Anyone else read that filing today for JV review. They stated that they do not have any LHR slots presently or AMS. But that CDG, they could easily get. Why tease LHR so hard, when we donít even have slots to go there?

Because itís a convienient excuse if we donít wind up going to Europe. ďOh those evil alliance carriers wonít let us fly to Europe because we canít get LHR slots!Ē Plus, it is the top Europe destination from BOS/JFK, particularly for corporate contracts. Business travelers want LHR, not LGW.

PasserOGas
02-07-2019, 03:46 PM
Because itís a convienient excuse if we donít wind up going to Europe. ďOh those evil alliance carriers wonít let us fly to Europe because we canít get LHR slots!Ē Plus, it is the top Europe destination from BOS/JFK, particularly for corporate contracts. Business travelers want LHR, not LGW.

IF we go to Europe (big if), we are going to London City on the 220. Watch.

Flyby1206
02-07-2019, 04:25 PM
IF we go to Europe (big if), we are going to London City on the 220. Watch.

I think thereís a chance at that happening (Iíve heard that rumor), but not unless we also serve LHR. That is where the biggest corporate contracts are.

Bluedriver
02-07-2019, 08:28 PM
IF we go to Europe (big if), we are going to London City on the 220. Watch.

Disagree. Watch.

😀

benzoate
02-08-2019, 03:58 AM
I think there’s a chance at that happening (I’ve heard that rumor), but not unless we also serve LHR. That is where the biggest corporate contracts are.

If we are looking at this Europe discussion objectively, taking into account the level of management experience(arrogance) at Jetblue and the current aircraft on order then the whole exercise is genuinely concerning for the airline. If you were around for the 190 deployment alone the Europe discussion should give you pause.

The simple fact of trying to fly a 321LR, LIMITED bags, at FL320, .76 on the tracks will be a horrible experience for all involved. Add in the lack of training for crews, inexperienced dispatchers, mismanagement of permits and slots, inability to meet D0-A14...

The above is why I truly believe the discussion by Jetblue management is more of a threat than a promise.

Flyby1206
02-08-2019, 05:02 AM
If we are looking at this Europe discussion objectively, taking into account the level of management experience(arrogance) at Jetblue and the current aircraft on order then the whole exercise is genuinely concerning for the airline. If you were around for the 190 deployment alone the Europe discussion should give you pause.

The simple fact of trying to fly a 321LR, LIMITED bags, at FL320, .76 on the tracks will be a horrible experience for all involved. Add in the lack of training for crews, inexperienced dispatchers, mismanagement of permits and slots, inability to meet D0-A14...

The above is why I truly believe the discussion by Jetblue management is more of a threat than a promise.

I was not around for the 190 deployment, but I do have genuine operational concerns if we announce Europe. Even if we had the right aircraft for the mission.

Rickce7
02-10-2019, 07:45 PM
I was not around for the 190 deployment, but I do have genuine operational concerns if we announce Europe. Even if we had the right aircraft for the mission.
+1. . . Same. Just look at how we started off our Lima operation. Had a dude in my pad who worked in Ops at the Puzzle Palace at the time. It was a total clown car debacle. We were totally winging it. If we try that in Europe with Euro Control, it will be a short-lived experiment.

Southerner
02-11-2019, 03:08 AM
Are the PW engine issues causing us to push back the 220s ? Hmmm.

Honestly I think it has less to do with staffing and more to do with no vision or idea where to expand. The ELT seems quite happy stalling hull growth. When the retrofits are complete what will our ASM growth be? 1-2%?

The 220s are pushing due to manufacturing delays. The Alabama facility isn't going up as fast as they need, and delivery slots are pushing as a result.

The NEOs pushed right due to motor issues.

RiddleEagle18
02-11-2019, 04:05 AM
We are also months behind on setting up the 220 program(that came straight from the top of that program)

They didnít hire the programs management structure soon enough and as always wanted them to do more with less.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bluedriver
02-11-2019, 04:06 AM
So, if we push 6-7 NEOs into next year, and we are scheduled to take 15 (I think it's 15, could be 13) NEOs next year already, any bets on whether or not we take 22 NEOs next year?

I mean, if the delay is all Airbus and if supposedly WANT the aircraft, we'd take 22 next year right? Bets?

sailingfun
02-11-2019, 04:16 AM
IF we go to Europe (big if), we are going to London City on the 220. Watch.

Are you going to fly people on that route? If so you will need a different aircraft. Yes they flew a demo flight as a publicity stunt but please read the fine print on that flight.

cmesoar
02-11-2019, 04:19 AM
So, if we push 6-7 NEOs into next year, and we are scheduled to take 15 (I think it's 15, could be 13) NEOs next year already, any bets on whether or not we take 22 NEOs next year?

I mean, if the delay is all Airbus and if supposedly WANT the aircraft, we'd take 22 next year right? Bets?

I am not going all in yet, but my bet is no.

benzoate
02-11-2019, 04:25 AM
Are you going to fly people on that route? If so you will need a different aircraft. Yes they flew a demo flight as a publicity stunt but please read the fine print on that flight.

I remember when the 190 was introduced at Jetblue and all the hoopla that followed. It was going to do X, it could do Y and we were going to use it to do Z.

The end result was it didn't have the actual advertised range, it wasn't fuel efficient on Jetblue routes and its mechanically inferior to the Airbus. The other mistake the airline made was deploying the aircraft on routes it was trying to attract new business.

All the same players remain at the airline so its safe to assume the same business plan would apply to the 220 deployment. For this reason alone the potential expansion is a poor business decision.

Bluedriver
02-11-2019, 05:04 AM
I am not going all in yet, but my bet is no.

Smart man...

GuppyPuppy
02-11-2019, 08:03 AM
The 220s are pushing due to manufacturing delays. The Alabama facility isn't going up as fast as they need, and delivery slots are pushing as a result.

The NEOs pushed right due to motor issues.

Yet somehow Delta just ordered another 15 A220's and all are scheduled to be delivered by the end of 2023.

Gup

Speedbird2263
02-11-2019, 08:19 AM
Yet somehow Delta just ordered another 15 A220's and all are scheduled to be delivered by the end of 2023.

Gup

Things that make you go hmmm....

Flyby1206
02-11-2019, 08:28 AM
Yet somehow Delta just ordered another 15 A220's and all are scheduled to be delivered by the end of 2023.

Gup

I think DL is getting them from the Montreal facility. Yes, I donít see why we couldnít also take delivery from there, but cíest la vie.

Bluedriver
02-11-2019, 10:05 AM
I think DL is getting them from the Montreal facility. Yes, I donít see why we couldnít also take delivery from there, but cíest la vie.

I just accept whatever management tells me at face value, they always tell the truth.

Flyby1206
02-11-2019, 10:13 AM
I think DL is getting them from the Montreal facility. Yes, I donít see why we couldnít also take delivery from there, but cíest la vie.

I just accept whatever management tells me at face value, they always tell the truth.

Read much BD?

hyperboy
02-11-2019, 10:40 AM
Read much BD?


He loves to hear himself talk. He is always right. You try to give advice to pilots on here and he adds his opinion on something he knows nothing about which is bad advice.

Southerner
02-11-2019, 10:54 AM
Yet somehow Delta just ordered another 15 A220's and all are scheduled to be delivered by the end of 2023.

Gup

Yep. It's no secret that Delta got the jump on us, and got their orders in ahead of us. Ours will come from Alabama. Theirs are coming from the factory that is already built and producing aircraft. All of those deliveries are spoken for. Ours are coming from a facility that isn't even built yet, which is why the delivery rate is so slow over the first year. I won't be surprised if there are further delays due to manufacturing issues.

Flyby1206
02-11-2019, 11:05 AM
Yep. It's no secret that Delta got the jump on us, and got their orders in ahead of us. Ours will come from Alabama. Theirs are coming from the factory that is already built and producing aircraft. All of those deliveries are spoken for. Ours are coming from a facility that isn't even built yet, which is why the delivery rate is so slow over the first year. I won't be surprised if there are further delays due to manufacturing issues.

That makes sense, there are a lot of orders ahead of ours even if we were to take delivery from the Montreal facility.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and_deliveries

https://www.fliegerfaust.com/airbus-news-a220-2622892568.html

The VP of JBU said first revenue flight for the A220 at jetblue would likely be at least Feb 2021.

Southerner
02-11-2019, 11:09 AM
That makes sense, there are a lot of orders ahead of ours:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Airbus_A220_orders_and_deliveries

The VP of JBU said first revenue flight for the A220 at jetblue would likely be at least Feb 2021.

Possibly. There are so many variables at this point that I wouldn't even put an over/under on it.

Bluedriver
02-11-2019, 11:14 AM
Read much BD?

Sorry bud, that was never actually directed at you! That was meant for the group at large...

Bluedriver
02-11-2019, 11:17 AM
He loves to hear himself talk. He is always right. You try to give advice to pilots on here and he adds his opinion on something he knows nothing about which is bad advice.

I don't trust a "pilot" who is unwilling to say publicly that JB's .002 profit sharing payout is terrible.

It makes me question your motives, and makes me wonder if you want him to put his union work on the application so that you can weed him out as a union supporter.

Maybe he would anger you by saying publicly that .002 is a terrible profit sharing plan, something you won't do for some curious reason.

benzoate
02-11-2019, 11:56 AM
Possibly. There are so many variables at this point that I wouldn't even put an over/under on it.

Unless I am mistaken we are taking 1 the first year correct? How do you build viable trips with 1 aircraft?

queue
02-11-2019, 12:09 PM
I don't trust a "pilot" who is unwilling to say publicly that JB's .002 profit sharing payout is terrible.

It makes me question your motives, and makes me wonder if you want him to put his union work on the application so that you can weed him out as a union supporter.

Maybe he would anger you by saying publicly that .002 is a terrible profit sharing plan, something you won't do for some curious reason.


I wonder if he ever signed some kind of binding agreement with his employer never to say anything insubordinate?


.002 is terrible.


Please post how much your Delta friends made. This kind of information is left out of the media.

Southerner
02-11-2019, 12:11 PM
Unless I am mistaken we are taking 1 the first year correct? How do you build viable trips with 1 aircraft?

The "first year" was August to December of 2020, during which time we only needed one airframe to do proving runs, evacuations, etc. ramping up to the start of revenue service. We were supposed to get 5 during that timeframe (2020). Now with the delays, the first will come in December(ish) 2020 right? And the remainder will come in 2021. They haven't announced a new delivery schedule, but probably some of the 4 scheduled for 2021 will still be in 2021, so I'd guess somewhere between 6-7 total deliveries in 2021, with first revenue service in Febraury-March(ish).

That's a total guess, and I do not place any bets. Lol

Bluedriver
02-11-2019, 12:14 PM
I wonder if he ever signed some kind of binding agreement with his employer never to say anything insubordinate?


.002 is terrible.


Please post how much your Delta friends made. This kind of information is left out of the media.

Delta gets 14%. Their profit margin was only slightly higher than JB's. It's the formula that is so terrible, JB is very profitable.

queue
02-11-2019, 12:28 PM
Delta gets 14%. Their profit margin was only slightly higher than JB's. It's the formula that is so terrible, JB is very profitable.


So we voted in a substandard contract while having the full freedom to reject JB's first offer and negotiate a second one. Sure glad we protested at the investor meeting.

GuppyPuppy
02-11-2019, 12:51 PM
I wonder if he ever signed some kind of binding agreement with his employer never to say anything insubordinate?


.002 is terrible.


Please post how much your Delta friends made. This kind of information is left out of the media.


What media?

GP

GuppyPuppy
02-11-2019, 12:53 PM
Unless I am mistaken we are taking 1 the first year correct? How do you build viable trips with 1 aircraft?

You don't.

Gup

Southerner
02-11-2019, 01:25 PM
You don't.

Gup

Except the first "year" plan was 5 aircraft between August and December 2020. The second year was 4, making a total of 9 in the first year and 4 months on the original schedule. So I'm not sure where the "one in the first year" idea is coming from.

benzoate
02-11-2019, 01:43 PM
[QUOTE=Southerner;2762080]Except the first "year" plan was 5 aircraft between August and December 2020. The second year was 4, making a total of 9 in the first year and 4 months on the original schedule. So I'm not sure where the "one in the first year" idea is coming from.[/QUOTE
I could have sworn I read that somewhere. Guess I was wrong.

Bluedriver
02-11-2019, 02:08 PM
[QUOTE=Southerner;2762080]Except the first "year" plan was 5 aircraft between August and December 2020. The second year was 4, making a total of 9 in the first year and 4 months on the original schedule. So I'm not sure where the "one in the first year" idea is coming from.[/QUOTE
I could have sworn I read that somewhere. Guess I was wrong.

We have 1 (one) coming in 2020. We were supposed to get 5.

The 4 "missing" deliveries are moved to following years, 2 in 2021 and 2 at the tail end in 2023 (I believe that last part is correct).

So yes, 1 in the first calendar year now (2020).

benzoate
02-11-2019, 02:13 PM
[QUOTE=benzoate;2762088]

We have 1 (one) coming in 2020. We were supposed to get 5.

The 4 "missing" deliveries are moved to following years, 2 in 2021 and 2 at the tail end in 2023 (I believe that last part is correct).

So yes, 1 in the first calendar year now (2020).

At least Iím not crazy then.

Southerner
02-11-2019, 03:51 PM
[QUOTE=Bluedriver;2762105]

At least I’m not crazy then.

The original plan was 5 between August and December. Now it's (apparently) one in December with the balance coming in 2021. Since it takes about 2-3 months to do all of the work to get to revenue service after arrival of the first airframe, there will be several aircraft on property before revenue trips start. That's my point. It was never the case that anyone expected to do revenue service with one airframe.

In other words, it's a little disingenuous to say "we are only taking delivery of one airframe in the first year" when the first delivery is in the last month of that year.

Mattio
02-11-2019, 07:04 PM
In other words, it's a little disingenuous to say "we are only taking delivery of one airframe in the first year" when the first delivery is in the last month of that year.

I'ts disingenuous to expect any 220's before 2023 ;)

EDIT: 2025 ;)

Southerner
02-11-2019, 07:22 PM
I'ts disingenuous to expect any 220's before 2023 ;)

EDIT: 2025 ;)

Fine with me. I don't want to fly Le Bus or Le Nouveau Bus. :)

Bluedriver
02-11-2019, 09:41 PM
[QUOTE=benzoate;2762108]

The original plan was 5 between August and December. Now it's (apparently) one in December with the balance coming in 2021. Since it takes about 2-3 months to do all of the work to get to revenue service after arrival of the first airframe, there will be several aircraft on property before revenue trips start. That's my point. It was never the case that anyone expected to do revenue service with one airframe.

In other words, it's a little disingenuous to say "we are only taking delivery of one airframe in the first year" when the first delivery is in the last month of that year.

I don't believe you are correct. 2 of the 4 "missing" deliveries are moved to 2021. The other 2 "missing" deliveries are moved to 2023-25ish.

Flyby1206
02-12-2019, 03:53 AM
Fine with me. I don't want to fly Le Bus or Le Nouveau Bus. :)

The Canabus? ;)

PasserOGas
02-12-2019, 05:10 AM
The Canabus? ;)

I see what you did there.

We should name our first 220 "Blue Cush".

The701Express
02-12-2019, 11:14 AM
I see what you did there.

We should name our first 220 "Blue Cush".

What about "Maui Wowie"? It'd be perfect for ETOPS to Hawaii and fire up the Hawaiian merger rumor mill:D

GuppyPuppy
02-12-2019, 12:08 PM
I see what you did there.

We should name our first 220 "Blue Cush".

Ganja Blue

Gup

Bluedriver
02-12-2019, 05:14 PM
I see what you did there.

We should name our first 220 "Blue Cush".

Or "Finally"?

ProPilotBlue
02-12-2019, 05:16 PM
[QUOTE=Southerner;2762166]

I don't believe you are correct. 2 of the 4 "missing" deliveries are moved to 2021. The other 2 "missing" deliveries are moved to 2023-25ish.

That's correct. There are 4 scheduled in 2021, with one in December of 2020, for a total of 5 in the first year. (December 2020 to December 2021) The schedule could change, and probably will change.

dontsurf
02-24-2019, 10:28 PM
so a March announcement?

Flyby1206
02-25-2019, 04:11 AM
so a March announcement?

I thought it was April when the 1Q earnings are announced? Or was it June during the Paris Airshow? Probably September since thatís when the busy summer season will have ended. ;)

BeatNavy
02-25-2019, 04:48 AM
I thought it was April when the 1Q earnings are announced? Or was it June during the Paris Airshow? Probably September since thatís when the busy summer season will have ended. ;)

Pretty sure itís April 1st.

disenchantMINT
02-25-2019, 06:08 AM
Pretty sure itís April 1st.

This place is a joke, so that date would be very appropriate 😂

Bluedriver
02-25-2019, 06:46 AM
I thought it was April when the 1Q earnings are announced? Or was it June during the Paris Airshow? Probably September since thatís when the busy summer season will have ended. ;)

Wow, you sound like you've worked at JB long enough know how it works.

BunkerF16
02-25-2019, 09:17 AM
so a March announcement?


Probably just opening up an African Safari conservation plantation to save orphaned cheetahs and dingos.

Flyby1206
02-25-2019, 09:19 AM
Probably just opening up an African Safari conservation plantation to save orphaned cheetahs and dingos.

Dingos? Hourly service from SDQ-JNB? :eek:

LHRWED
02-25-2019, 01:03 PM
Read your daily news juice boxes...obviously they are announcing LHR on Wednesday!

PasserOGas
02-25-2019, 02:50 PM
Probably just opening up an African Safari conservation plantation to save orphaned cheetahs and dingos.

I have bred a species of Lion that feeds exclusively on jet fuel exhaust flavored potatoes.

CaptCoolHand
02-25-2019, 03:18 PM
Read your daily news juice boxes...obviously they are announcing LHR on Wednesday!

Wednesday is not tomorrow, the 15th, or Friday. No way. YouR rumor fales

dontsurf
02-25-2019, 07:02 PM
so a March announcement?

any bets??

capt707
02-26-2019, 01:23 AM
Read your daily news juice boxes...obviously they are announcing LHR on Wednesday!

Doubt it, and who cares!?

Itís going to be something stupid as usual, definitely not something that would benefit us employees.

pilotpayne
02-26-2019, 02:31 AM
Doubt it, and who cares!?

Itís going to be something stupid as usual, definitely not something that would benefit us employees.

Exactly this.

CaptCoolHand
02-26-2019, 02:39 AM
I heard it was a solar powered peanut oil fryer to
Fry blue waffle fries from the farm. Itís a T6 thing.

SmitteyB
02-26-2019, 08:18 AM
I would venture to say something is happening tomorrow.

-Instagram reset with a self proclaimed"New JetBlue" starting Wednesday

-Pocket session in BOS with JG, MSG and the other route planning folks

Possibly just an 321LR announcement...

PasserOGas
02-26-2019, 08:48 AM
I heard it was a solar powered peanut oil fryer to
Fry blue waffle fries from the farm. Itís a T6 thing.

I thought it was a hybrid electric potato app for booking travel through the lodge and deferring airplanes.

TristarJS30
02-26-2019, 08:52 AM
I would venture to say something is happening tomorrow.

-Instagram reset with a self proclaimed"New JetBlue" starting Wednesday

-Pocket session in BOS with JG, MSG and the other route planning folks

Possibly just an 321LR announcement...

That was also my initial guess based on the same evidence you presented... but I've been at jetblue long enough to know I'll likely wind up disappointed.

aldonite7667
02-26-2019, 09:29 AM
I would venture to say something is happening tomorrow.

-Instagram reset with a self proclaimed"New JetBlue" starting Wednesday

-Pocket session in BOS with JG, MSG and the other route planning folks

Possibly just an 321LR announcement...

Is their going to be free beer tomorrow?

Xtreme87
02-26-2019, 09:33 AM
Is their going to be free beer tomorrow?

You canít possibly drink enough to match Deltaís profit sharing.

Theyíll announce europe to make people forget about the non existent profit sharing and then quietly defer the airplanes a few months later when everybody already forgot about it. Classic JB.

queue
02-26-2019, 09:49 AM
You canít possibly drink enough to match Deltaís profit sharing.

Theyíll announce europe to make people forget about the non existent profit sharing and then quietly defer the airplanes a few months later when everybody already forgot about it. Classic JB.


Sure glad Robin is out there running JB...



https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20190225005841/en/JetBlue-CEO-Robin-Hayes-Presents-Airline%E2%80%99s-Long-Term

CanoeBum
02-26-2019, 09:56 AM
You canít possibly drink enough to match Deltaís profit sharing.

Theyíll announce europe to make people forget about the non existent profit sharing and then quietly defer the airplanes a few months later when everybody already forgot about it. Classic JB.

This to a T...

capt707
02-26-2019, 10:10 AM
I would venture to say something is happening tomorrow.

-Instagram reset with a self proclaimed"New JetBlue" starting Wednesday

-Pocket session in BOS with JG, MSG and the other route planning folks

Possibly just an 321LR announcement...

I care 0.002% about this.

Flyby1206
02-26-2019, 10:35 AM
I would venture to say something is happening tomorrow.

-Instagram reset with a self proclaimed"New JetBlue" starting Wednesday

-Pocket session in BOS with JG, MSG and the other route planning folks

Possibly just an 321LR announcement...

I'd say I am generally more optimistic with this type of stuff, but I really don't think it will be anything more than a new Jetblue.com website or something equally dumb.

SmitteyB
02-26-2019, 10:36 AM
I care 0.002% about this.

Mic drop. Love it.

pilotpayne
02-26-2019, 11:45 AM
I'd say I am generally more optimistic with this type of stuff, but I really don't think it will be anything more than a new Jetblue.com website or something equally dumb.

Exactly.

If it was going to be Europe it wouldnít be a pocket session. I doubt it will be much.

seekingblue
02-26-2019, 12:26 PM
Exactly.

If it was going to be Europe it wouldnít be a pocket session. I doubt it will be much.

If you look at the FLT ops email that was just sent, it looks like a London announcement.

Softpayman
02-26-2019, 12:47 PM
If you look at the FLT ops email that was just sent, it looks like a London announcement.

Really why?

I'd expect a London announcement to come from Robin and not necessarily in the form of a pocket session.

CaptCoolHand
02-26-2019, 12:59 PM
We fight dal in bos...

No planes just shuttle trains. Weíre a green company.

No London. No lr. No mco.

seekingblue
02-26-2019, 01:00 PM
Really why?

I'd expect a London announcement to come from Robin and not necessarily in the form of a pocket session.

I don't disagree with that. However, look who is going to be in attendance.

Joanna
Ian- SVP customer expirence
Marty EVP Chief Commercial officer
Rob SVP Gov't affairs
Scott SVP airline planning


Looks to be a few to many high powered folks for just a simple pocket sharing session. Also, the "includes updates about our network strategy" is in Bold.

I'm happy to admit that I don't know 100% that this a London announcement, but It certainly isn't a pocket session to discuss or profit sharing (or lack there of).

pilotpayne
02-26-2019, 01:10 PM
I don't disagree with that. However, look who is going to be in attendance.

Joanna
Ian- SVP customer expirence
Marty EVP Chief Commercial officer
Rob SVP Gov't affairs
Scott SVP airline planning


Looks to be a few to many high powered folks for just a simple pocket sharing session. Also, the "includes updates about our network strategy" is in Bold.

I'm happy to admit that I don't know 100% that this a London announcement, but It certainly isn't a pocket session to discuss or profit sharing (or lack there of).

Or it could just be about defense in Boston.

Who knows I would love to be optimistic about it but I just canít right now ;)

NightOwl
02-26-2019, 01:15 PM
https://twitter.com/thejakeland/status/1100495965864239104?s=21

Iím guessing we will announce that we will be working with this guy to make some sort of promo film. Just my 0.002%



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