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View Full Version : BOS Reserve


95wahoo
01-02-2019, 09:01 AM
Iím just retired from the AF, and am finishing IOE at a regional now (my last 6 years were non-flying jobs). I live 80 mi south of BOS. Iím considering JetBlue over commuting for a higher paying major, mainly as a way to get BOS based quickly and minimize days away from home while my kids are young (~10 more years). How often are BOS reserves called in to fly? The call out is now 2.5 hours, correct?


pilotpayne
01-02-2019, 09:37 AM
Iím just retired from the AF, and am finishing IOE at a regional now (my last 6 years were non-flying jobs). I live 80 mi south of BOS. Iím considering JetBlue over commuting for a higher paying major, mainly as a way to get BOS based quickly and minimize days away from home while my kids are young (~10 more years). How often are BOS reserves called in to fly? The call out is now 2.5 hours, correct?

Yeah just donít say that in the interview:)

2.5 hours now.
Captains get used a lot but I think FOs not so much.
If you live in base rsv is pretty easy.

Fly603
01-02-2019, 09:37 AM
Correct, 2.5 hour call out. I started here about 6 months ago. I wrapped up consolidation in early September and since then, things really slowed down for me. I live about 80 miles north of BOS and the callout time hasn't been a issue for me making my report time. That said, most of the callouts I've received have been right near the minimum. December was my busiest month since the summer and I was called in for a total of 12 days. In October, I worked just one day:D. I went 82 days straight without a hotel stay in the fall. I'm on the Airbus which is well staffed for FOs. The 190 is different story from what I hear. Your mileage may vary. Overall, it's been great. Best QOL I've ever had in this industry. It's definitely worth looking into.


95wahoo
01-02-2019, 10:35 AM
Correct, 2.5 hour call out. I started here about 6 months ago. I wrapped up consolidation in early September and since then, things really slowed down for me. I live about 80 miles north of BOS and the callout time hasn't been a issue for me making my report time. That said, most of the callouts I've received have been right near the minimum. December was my busiest month since the summer and I was called in for a total of 12 days. In October, I worked just one day:D. I went 82 days straight without a hotel stay in the fall. I'm on the Airbus which is well staffed for FOs. The 190 is different story from what I hear. Your mileage may vary. Overall, it's been great. Best QOL I've ever had in this industry. It's definitely worth looking into.

Very helpful, thanks. Looks like odds favor getting the E190 as a new hire. Any E190 FOs out there who can shed some light in the reserve use rates out of BOS?

nuball5
01-02-2019, 10:48 AM
I'm on the Airbus which is well staffed for FOs. The 190 is different story from what I hear

This will switch as time goes on like it always does...just part of the ebb and flow. They haven't had large 190 classes in at least two years until just this month, so you'll see the pendulum swing the other way shortly. When I started a couple years ago the 190 was fat and the Airbus was running hot. They're growing 190-Bos FO almost 30% with this last system bid to account for more people wanting to exile the 190. (220 FOs to approx 300 FOs)

coopervane
01-02-2019, 04:11 PM
I’m just retired from the AF, and am finishing IOE at a regional now (my last 6 years were non-flying jobs). I live 80 mi south of BOS. I’m considering JetBlue over commuting for a higher paying major, mainly as a way to get BOS based quickly and minimize days away from home while my kids are young (~10 more years). How often are BOS reserves called in to fly? The call out is now 2.5 hours, correct?

If you live outside BOS and don’t wanna move that is a pretty good reason to hang out here at JB.

ANY other situation and I’d keep looking.

I had a pretty easy time on reserve. Hired on the bus, could have held a line after ~8mos. Chose to bid reserve (even while commuting) for the balance of the year. I personally got MORE than 2 hours notice at least half the time. ALWAYS had my long call converted. Got 1 or 2 pre releases per month.

My crashpad roomies on the 190 always had to call a chief to buy a trip for them due to lack of landing currency.

Really not too bad. Reserve isn’t bad here in my experience. Morale is low, there is no rudder on this ship, and some days I want to walk out in grand fashion, but I have to remember I have 2 little ones.

Toonces
01-03-2019, 04:55 AM
I live 60 mi north of Boston. Itís about an hour drive to the employee lot. In my first year on the 320, Iím flying about 4-5 days a month. Most are pre-assigned trips while on reserve, once a month or so I get a callout. I had min call out maybe 3-4 times last year,?the rest are 3 hours or more.
I have a few friends who are in their first year in BOS on the 190. They are working more, maybe 10-12 days a month.
I have young kids so I enjoy being at home a lot. The 320 is overstaffed in BOS so until they fix that, I imagine my QOL will stay the same (at least until summer).


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GuppyPuppy
01-03-2019, 05:32 AM
I live 80 mi south of BOS. Iím considering JetBlue over commuting for a higher paying major, mainly as a way to get BOS based quickly and minimize days away from home while my kids are young (~10 more years

Definitely do not say this in an interview.

It's about what you can do for the company, not what the company can do for you.

Everyone at the interview knows you want BOS based on your address. You just need to jump through the hoops and play the game that is the interview.

Good luck.

Gup

Std Deviation
01-03-2019, 11:51 AM
I have young kids so I enjoy being at home a lot.

Funny how nobody on these forums ever says.... I like my wife a lot so I enjoy being home. Always the kids. Hmmmmm.:rolleyes::D:D:

PasserOGas
01-03-2019, 01:43 PM
Definitely do not say this in an interview.

It's about what you can do for the company, not what the company can do for you.

Everyone at the interview knows you want BOS based on your address. You just need to jump through the hoops and play the game that is the interview.

Good luck.

Gup

This. Remember, they are almost certainly lying to you about the job and the culture. Feel free to lie right back.

Toonces
01-03-2019, 01:50 PM
Definitely do not say this in an interview.



It's about what you can do for the company, not what the company can do for you.



Everyone at the interview knows you want BOS based on your address. You just need to jump through the hoops and play the game that is the interview.



Good luck.



Gup


I said this in my interview. Iím sure I mentioned plenty of things about cleaning planes and whatnot, but I definitely said a BOS base was a motivating factor.


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95wahoo
01-04-2019, 08:11 PM
I live 60 mi north of Boston. Itís about an hour drive to the employee lot. In my first year on the 320, Iím flying about 4-5 days a month. Most are pre-assigned trips while on reserve, once a month or so I get a callout. I had min call out maybe 3-4 times last year,?the rest are 3 hours or more.
I have a few friends who are in their first year in BOS on the 190. They are working more, maybe 10-12 days a month.
I have young kids so I enjoy being at home a lot. The 320 is overstaffed in BOS so until they fix that, I imagine my QOL will stay the same (at least until summer).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Copy, thanks.

djk1989730
01-15-2019, 11:50 AM
Yeah just donít say that in the interview:)

2.5 hours now.
Captains get used a lot but I think FOs not so much.
If you live in base rsv is pretty easy.


Does company not like people who live around?

usmc-sgt
01-15-2019, 01:10 PM
Does company not like people who live around?

No, they went to know what youíll do if you get based in LGB out of training.

hilltopflyer
01-15-2019, 02:00 PM
No, they went to know what youíll do if you get based in LGB out of training.

Which wonít happen

Gordie H
01-15-2019, 04:13 PM
I pitched being a local guy pretty hard when I interviewed a few years ago. It went over fine. In fact, they used to have a question on the app asking if you resided in a JB base.

StarHustler
01-16-2019, 11:52 AM
The App now asks if you live within 2 hours of a Jet Blue base.

nuball5
01-16-2019, 12:18 PM
The App now asks if you live within 2 hours of a Jet Blue base.

Theyíve always asked that. Not new.

Bluedriver
01-16-2019, 12:27 PM
The App now asks if you live within 2 hours of a Jet Blue base.

That's how they try and find people who MIGHT stay at JB.

Mattio
01-19-2019, 01:08 PM
Reserve has definitely gotten worse on the 190. Mostly due to staffing but also due to some of the contract rules backfiring (at least for senior guys). Even before the contract, if they start multiple guys in the PM section, they put the senior guy earlier and he usually gets called before the junior guys do, which was always messed up. However, now that they have to start everyone after 1000 on day 1, you end up with more junior guys starting later than senior guys and this carries into day 2 etc... Also, the 14 hour "Hours of Service" limit has also resulted in senior guys getting trips that would've otherwise gone to junior guys who started earlier. If you are the senior guy and bid PM, which used to be a sound strategy, you usually start late enough that the 14 hour limit doesn't benefit you (at least on the 190). You often end up sandwiched between junior AM guys who aren't contractually-legal for the trip and junior PM guys that start after you and, therefore, you get called for the trip. That said, senior guys who bid PM are probably still working less than senior guys who bid AM.

With the contract fully implemented, it will go from bidding AM or PM to an ABCD silo system:
Early morning, late morning, afternoon, evening

Most people that previously bid PM will probably bid the C and D silo. With the D silo starting at or after 1700, there probably won't be many D silos awarded on the 190. Therefore, if your strategy was to start late, you will be in the C silo and they will start the senior guy closest to noon while the junior guys get to start later (I was really ****ed about the way this was written. Why punish seniority?? At least gives guys more of an option.)

Also, there's a clause that if a D silo (after 1700) is awarded, then they have to award it to that pilot 3 consecutive times. They normally start people who are on long blocks of reserve, later in the day (when they're in the first day(s) of their reserve block). Commuters tend to bid longer blocks of reserve than local guys. Therefore, commuters are going to end up getting that 1700+ to start more often and keeping it for a few consecutive days, inhibiting someone on a shorter block of days from getting it, even when both pilots are on their 3rd to last day for example. This may be an issue for local senior guys.

I apologize if this is difficult to follow for someone who isn't at JB, but basically the reserve rules have gotten better for junior guys and not much better, worse in some ways, for senior guys. I'm also wondering if guys on the Bus are seeing the same things.

I'm personally done with reserve on the 190. It's not worth it anymore. Was a great run while it lasted. I always argued the case that a great reserve system that benefited senior guys was great for everyone (well, most people). Some guys that would've normally snatched up great trips bid reserve and those good trips filter further down the seniority list. It equals more happy people. If you are willing to have your phone on 10-24 hours a day and answer the call from the company, there should be greater rewards for that. I really am interested in hearing Airbus guys' opinion on this. We know the contract was really designed around the Airbus so maybe these issues aren't as prevalent there.

Toonces
01-19-2019, 02:30 PM
I have heard BOS 190 reserve has gotten worse. On the 320 FO side, we are still over staffed so I work a lot less even being junior. The reserve grid on the 190 hasnít been green in months so Iím sure itís a different story.


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nuball5
01-19-2019, 03:38 PM
I have heard BOS 190 reserve has gotten worse. On the 320 FO side, we are still over staffed so I work a lot less even being junior. The reserve grid on the 190 hasnít been green in months so Iím sure itís a different story.


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I think Iíve mentioned this before, but itíll flip from the Airbus being overstaffed to the 190 before you know it. They want a big fat buffer before they let more guys bail to the Airbus, which is why you see those big new-hire class photos of almost all 190 pilots. IMO, if youíre local to Boston and with less than 5 years of property, the 190 will afford you better QOL and possibly better pay if you can work the system a little.

Rabid Seagull
01-19-2019, 05:03 PM
Reserve has definitely gotten worse on the 190.

I apologize if this is difficult to follow for someone who isn't at JB, but basically the reserve rules have gotten better for junior guys and not much better, worse in some ways, for senior guys. I'm also wondering if guys on the Bus are seeing the same things.

I'm personally done with reserve on the 190. It's not worth it anymore. Was a great run while it lasted.

Senior 320 guy here. I too am done with reserve too, maybe. Being a line holder at my seniority would get me 13 days off a month...same as reserve. Sure it'd be nice to know your schedule, but any day CS doesn't call is a win in my book.

As far as the silos. Looks good on paper, but the company controls the staffing ( no hard formula) and what's to say they don't direct everyone into silo B ( and then I go earliest because I'm senior...wtf?)? Zero required balance. The silos are today's reserve with pseudo divisions.

The loopholes in the contract are beginning to surface and it'll be interesting to see how the company implements/ interprets them.

Reserve rules have gotten better for junior folks, just like you said, because they had to. The union and the company knows these folks will be on reserve for a long, long, long time.

Thankfully i can go back to a line, but it would be 4-5 day trips including great destinations like SDQ or STI with absolute [email protected] sleep schedules.

Flipping a coin.

Mattio
01-19-2019, 05:45 PM
Senior 320 guy here. I too am done with reserve too, maybe. Being a line holder at my seniority would get me 13 days off a month...same as reserve. Sure it'd be nice to know your schedule, but any day CS doesn't call is a win in my book.

As far as the silos. Looks good on paper, but the company controls the staffing ( no hard formula) and what's to say they don't direct everyone into silo B ( and then I go earliest because I'm senior...wtf?)? Zero required balance. The silos are today's reserve with pseudo divisions.

The loopholes in the contract are beginning to surface and it'll be interesting to see how the company implements/ interprets them.

Reserve rules have gotten better for junior folks, just like you said, because they had to. The union and the company knows these folks will be on reserve for a long, long, long time.

Thankfully i can go back to a line, but it would be 4-5 day trips including great destinations like SDQ or STI with absolute [email protected] sleep schedules.

Flipping a coin.

Thanks for sharing your view from the Airbus side

hilltopflyer
01-19-2019, 06:03 PM
Senior 320 guy here. I too am done with reserve too, maybe. Being a line holder at my seniority would get me 13 days off a month...same as reserve. Sure it'd be nice to know your schedule, but any day CS doesn't call is a win in my book.

As far as the silos. Looks good on paper, but the company controls the staffing ( no hard formula) and what's to say they don't direct everyone into silo B ( and then I go earliest because I'm senior...wtf?)? Zero required balance. The silos are today's reserve with pseudo divisions.

The loopholes in the contract are beginning to surface and it'll be interesting to see how the company implements/ interprets them.

Reserve rules have gotten better for junior folks, just like you said, because they had to. The union and the company knows these folks will be on reserve for a long, long, long time.

Thankfully i can go back to a line, but it would be 4-5 day trips including great destinations like SDQ or STI with absolute [email protected] sleep schedules.

Flipping a coin.

How long have you been here? Only 13 days off a month? Doesnít seem right since you said you were a senior fo.

Mattio
01-19-2019, 06:28 PM
How long have you been here? Only 13 days off a month? Doesnít seem right since you said you were a senior fo.

Maybe he meant senior relative to the rest of the reserves

Rabid Seagull
01-19-2019, 06:50 PM
Maybe he meant senior relative to the rest of the reserves

Woops, 320 CA. Senior amongst the rest of the reserve folk.

Mattio
01-19-2019, 08:06 PM
Reserve rules have gotten better for junior folks, just like you said, because they had to. The union and the company knows these folks will be on reserve for a long, long, long time.

I wish we could think outside the box more (as a pilot group). If they made reserve great enough then it would go senior and no one would ever be forced to be on reserve. Just because it typically sucked in the past doesn't mean it HAS TO. Also, taking a newly minted FO on a plane that is new to them and making them work an unpredictable schedule with circadian rythms all over the place doesn't make sense from a safety perspective (neither does having them cram in their consolidation and then not touch the airplane for 60 days because we're running fat on reserves at the time).

hilltopflyer
01-20-2019, 03:43 AM
What I find hilarious was how the union decided to go completely out of the box and make a whole new reserve format. Now all the loopholes I tried to talk about are coming back and biting us. Just remember this for the next round.

Mattio
01-20-2019, 05:44 AM
What I find hilarious was how the union decided to go completely out of the box and make a whole new reserve format. Now all the loopholes I tried to talk about are coming back and biting us. Just remember this for the next round.

The loopholes jumped off the page for me the first time I looked at the TA... I've heard of some pretty sweet systems at other companies, not sure if they're still the same but it would be pretty easy to get reserve to be great.
Not that easy to get the company to agree to it, I concede. Then again, voting yes to the first TA doesn't help. Maybe I'll be in a place in my life where I can get more involved in the union during the next round of negotiations. If I can't count on the pilots to vote rationally then maybe I can assist the guys who are writing the TA in hopes of getting a better one in the first place.

hyperboy
01-20-2019, 07:17 AM
The loopholes jumped off the page for me the first time I looked at the TA... I've heard of some pretty sweet systems at other companies, not sure if they're still the same but it would be pretty easy to get reserve to be great.
Not that easy to get the company to agree to it, I concede. Then again, voting yes to the first TA doesn't help. Maybe I'll be in a place in my life where I can get more involved in the union during the next round of negotiations. If I can't count on the pilots to vote rationally then maybe I can assist the guys who are writing the TA in hopes of getting a better one in the first place.

What are you going to form a dictatorship? The pilots get to vote as they did! Not You get to vote for everyone cause you think your smarter than close to 75% of the pilots. Only about 25% of the pilots are here on reserve.
Do you know any of the guys that wrote the TA? I do and they are some of the most honest men I have ever met. You would have had you went to a road show or even ONE union meeting. I went to the BOS union meeting a couple of weeks after the AIP dropped. BD was at several of them as well. I knew it was going to get voted in easily because no one was there (25 ish). Historically pilots go to union meetings when they are angry and want to slam their fists on the pulpit. This NEVER happened. The roads shows were a huge success as well the picket.

You as you say may be in a better place down the road to help. No one else i.e union volunteers or union members had nothing else to do....JUST YOU.

It is your career and livelihood yet not important this time., our FIRST foundational contract. Well played. Brilliant decision making.

Please come save us idiots, clearly WE could not possibly know what you know.

PasserOGas
01-20-2019, 07:20 AM
The loopholes jumped off the page for me the first time I looked at the TA... I've heard of some pretty sweet systems at other companies, not sure if they're still the same but it would be pretty easy to get reserve to be great.
Not that easy to get the company to agree to it, I concede. Then again, voting yes to the first TA doesn't help. Maybe I'll be in a place in my life where I can get more involved in the union during the next round of negotiations. If I can't count on the pilots to vote rationally then maybe I can assist the guys who are writing the TA in hopes of getting a better one in the first place.

You'll be going into negotiations with 75% of your limbs tied behind your back thanks to this pilot group.

hyperboy
01-20-2019, 07:27 AM
You'll be going into negotiations with 75% of your limbs tied behind your back thanks to this pilot group.

POG. You are so much more angry on APC than in real life. Iím burning my own dung to Keep warm during the toughest of times.

PasserOGas
01-20-2019, 09:10 AM
POG. You are so much more angry on APC than in real life. Iím burning my own dung to Keep warm during the toughest of times.

Trust me, when I talk about B6 (which outside this forum I try not to do), I get angry.

WhistlePig
01-20-2019, 09:30 AM
The loopholes jumped off the page for me the first time I looked at the TA...

Can you provide examples?

Mattio
01-20-2019, 10:56 AM
Can you provide examples?

If you go to my post history, you'll see some examples

Mattio
01-20-2019, 11:05 AM
Can you provide examples?

Also, a new one: The union recently sent out an email saying the company has been trying to adjust RAP end times after they've already been issued so they can start folks earlier on the following day. Currently, they're not allowed to do this without pilot consent due to FSM protections. However, I was unable to find similar protections in the CBA. I hope I'm wrong but I've looked through the CBA for this protection twice now. Why does the FSM have a protection that the CBA doesn't? I don't want to keep speaking to loopholes online because I don't want to help the company find ones they're not already aware of. I'm sure they're already aware of this particular one, though.

Mattio
01-20-2019, 11:11 AM
I've already seen a significant amount of buyer's remorse on the line.

Ted Striker
01-20-2019, 11:30 AM
Also, a new one: The union recently sent out an email saying the company has been trying to adjust RAP end times after they've already been issued so they can start folks earlier on the following day. Currently, they're not allowed to do this without pilot consent due to FSM protections. However, I was unable to find similar protections in the CBA. I hope I'm wrong but I've looked through the CBA for this protection twice now. Why does the FSM have a protection that the CBA doesn't? I don't want to keep speaking to loopholes online because I don't want to help the company find ones they're not already aware of. I'm sure they're already aware of this particular one, though.

Call fatigued if youíre fatigued. Circadian flips. Day 1 start at 10am , released early, now with a 2am RAP day two. Seems a bit unreasonable to be able to now fall asleep at 6pm. The only way theyíll stop these rediculous tactics is if enough people just call it what it is.... unsafe. Whether itís legal per the contract or not, it does not just automatically make it ďsafeĒ.

Mattio
01-20-2019, 11:39 AM
Call fatigued if youíre fatigued. Circadian flips. Day 1 start at 10am , released early, now with a 2am RAP day two. Seems a bit unreasonable to be able to now fall asleep at 6pm. The only way theyíll stop these rediculous tactics is if enough people just call it what it is.... unsafe. Whether itís legal per the contract or not, it does not just automatically make it ďsafeĒ.

It's not just about safety, it's also about QOL. Also, I'd be willing to bet that would be determined as individual driven rather than system driven and you'd go through our miniscule amount of PTO to cover it.

Ted Striker
01-20-2019, 11:58 AM
It's not just about safety, it's also about QOL. Also, I'd be willing to bet that would be determined as individual driven rather than system driven and you'd go through our miniscule amount of PTO to cover it.

Yeah that's true.

WhistlePig
01-20-2019, 01:22 PM
If you go to my post history, you'll see some examples

I saw highly attenuated representations in your post history that apply to a small subset of our 3800 pilots. Hardly representative of loopholes jumping of the page. Everyoneís situation is different.

Mattio
01-20-2019, 01:42 PM
I saw highly attenuated representations in your post history that apply to a small subset of our 3800 pilots. Hardly representative of loopholes jumping of the page. Everyoneís situation is different.

I did say The loopholes jumped off the page for me

Did I say that the specific loopholes I previously noted would directly affect everyone at our airline? No. However, when a senior guy bids reserve instead of a line it does affect many people below them. If reserve sucks and the senior pilot bids a line instead of reserve, she maybe snatches up the rare day trips that a few pilots below her had high hopes of getting. The next line of their PBS triggers and they settle for the 2-days that the next subset of guys had high hopes of getting. This dominoes all the way down the line. Not to mention that a lack of trips for people that want a line creates strategic issues for them when they're factoring in specific days off they want etc. etc. Like I said, reserve doesn't have to suck and it doesn't just benefit the reserves if reserve doesn't suck.

The weak staffing language that I previously noted also does affect everyone but maybe we want to be an airline that has staffing problems and red reserve grids, but creates lots of RSA/VDA opportunities (and cancels flights and loses customers). I can see why people want a staffing issue which creates those RSA/VDA's but I don't think it's a good long term idea. I'm not too hung up on this aspect, though.

I have always thought our TA suffered from a lack of strong language. I spoke to the things that affected me and you could talk to the guys next to you in the cockpit about the loopholes/unintended consequences that come to light and affect them in the near future. I'm sure you'll end up hearing plenty.

hyperboy
01-20-2019, 04:40 PM
On our first contract we should focus 75% of out negotiating capital on the 25% of the pilots that are on reserve.

So many leave and chase the junior Captain money to be on reserve. Then they want industry leading since they are now junior and on reserve. I Am not saying not to get better reserve rules. But.......

rvr1800
01-20-2019, 06:36 PM
On our first contract we should focus 75% of out negotiating capital on the 25% of the pilots that are on reserve.

So many leave and chase the junior Captain money to be on reserve. Then they want industry leading since they are now junior and on reserve. I Am not saying not to get better reserve rules. But.......

So what are you saying then? New hires are also on reserve. Are you a pay your dues guy? I dealt with it so why shouldn’t they mentality?

Reserve doesn’t need to suck just because it always has. There is no reason we can’t create a system that doesn’t make line holders think twice about bidding reserve.

Rabid Seagull
01-20-2019, 07:03 PM
Deleted

P.s. Tony Romo...you suck as an announcer.

hyperboy
01-20-2019, 07:11 PM
So what are you saying then? New hires are also on reserve. Are you a pay your dues guy? I dealt with it so why shouldnít they mentality?

Reserve doesnít need to suck just because it always has. There is no reason we canít create a system that makes line holders think twice about bidding reserve.

Nope never. We have long call coming and the rest of the reserve rules as well. Not sure why I would bid reserve other than days off which. I stayed on reserve for an extra year when I got here. I did not find it that bad. Sure it needed to get better. Apparently it was the worst system ever.......

Always got my weekends off.

Mattio
01-20-2019, 07:30 PM
On our first contract we should focus 75% of out negotiating capital on the 25% of the pilots that are on reserve.

So many leave and chase the junior Captain money to be on reserve. Then they want industry leading since they are now junior and on reserve. I Am not saying not to get better reserve rules. But.......

Would it have taken more negotiating capital to have the senior pilot start later than the junior pilot in the same silo? I don't see how that affects the company negatively. Would it have taken a lot of negotiating capital to keep the FSM protection that they can't change your RAP to end early (and thus start you earlier the next day)? Like I said, reserve going senior pretty much benefits everyone. So it's not just 25%. I also don't think better reserve rules would've taken 75% of the negotiating capital. Lastly, I think the negotiaters did their best with the situation. If you basically get to an impasse then one strategy is to put out a TA and have the pilots prove that's it's not good enough with their vote. That didn't happen (though I wish it had). The negotiating team would've had more ammo when they went back to the table.

dontsurf
01-20-2019, 08:11 PM
Would it have taken more negotiating capital to have the senior pilot start later than the junior pilot in the same silo?

i asked about this at the roadshow. they said that they could have done it either way, so they picked this way. i told them as a senior reserve, i'd rather it be the other way. obviously it was too late to make any changes to it at that point, but they seriously just considered it the same either way. by "they" i am talking about the scheduling specialists in the negotiating group.

Would it have taken a lot of negotiating capital to keep the FSM protection that they can't change your RAP to end early (and thus start you earlier the next day)?

people keep talking about this, both on here and in person with me, but i can't find such a thing in the FSM. where is this protection in the FSM compared to the CBA?

the company cannot "change" your RAP once you have been assigned a RAP, without your concurrence, either in the FSM or the CBA. but neither the FSM (that I can find) nor the CBA say that the company cannot assign you a RAP that is only 6 hours long, instead of 10, or whatever.

in fact, i don't even see in the FSM where the RAP is set at 10 hours for short call. i know it's 10 hours, but i don't see that mentioned in there. the CBA says it can't be more than 10 hours, right?

it doesn't say it can't be less than, and therefore the company can start you earlier the next day. but neither does the FSM. if i'm wrong, i'm glad to admit it, but i am looking all over the FSM reserve section and i don't see it, and i bid reserve on purpose.

dontsurf
01-20-2019, 08:18 PM
here's something about reserve now that is annoying to me, and to some other people I've talked to. i'd like the input of other reserves from other bases.

the contract says we can work up to 14 hours, 16 hours with an ending deadhead. it doesn't say how crew services will assign trips to reserves...no flow charts or rules or anything.

so they could assign us right up to 14 hours. and they have done that. then, there was a trip that should have gone to another guy, and he would have had a 13 hour and 10 minute day. they gave the trip to me.

crew services told me they are using a 1 hour buffer. i asked them where in the contract it says that. they pulled out some part of the contract that talks about pairing construction and a 1 hour buffer. it had nothing to do with reserve assignment.

so sometimes they use the buffer, sometimes they don't. sometimes, they might use a 2 hour buffer. or 6 hours. who knows? the contract does not force any sort of consistency onto them, and i think that is wrong.

i do not know much about other reserve systems at other airlines, but i did ask an American airlines pilot about their reserve, and i asked once he is on a reserve day, and he looks at the reserve list, and an open time trip pops up, does he know with 100% certainty which pilot on the reserve list is going to get that trip, and he said, yes, they know for sure who will get it. the contract gives strict instructions for the scheduling people to follow.

in our system (and this isn't just now with a hybrid FSM/contract system...the contract implementation will not change this at all), we literally have no idea who the trip will go to. crew services can and will and does change how they assign trips. they will give trips to their friends if they want them, and give them to other people if their friends do not want them, etc. it allows for complete corruption of the system, and no consistency to those of us on reserves.

any thoughts or experiences?

Mattio
01-20-2019, 08:18 PM
people keep talking about this, both on here and in person with me, but i can't find such a thing in the FSM. where is this protection in the FSM compared to the CBA?


FSM D 13

Below is part of an email from ALPA

The MEC is aware that Crew Services has been assigning pilots a shortened RAP on their first day of reserve. Their intent is to initiate the rest period early and have the reserve pilot available for an early morning RAP on their second day. FSM D 13 (which is still active as per the Implementation LOA) states that after the reserve assignment process is complete, a pilot cannot be released early from a SCR assignment without their concurrence. We ask that you monitor your RAP and rest periods closely to verify compliance with the contract and avoid any possible fatigue-inducing situations. If you have any questions or concerns about your RAP, contact Crew Services to address them.

usmc-sgt
01-21-2019, 01:22 AM
Thankfully i can go back to a line, but it would be 4-5 day trips including great destinations like SDQ or STI with absolute [email protected] sleep schedules.

Flipping a coin.

So true. With pairing construction and the death of 10 hour 3 days (awesome on RSV) open time is ALL 4 and 5 day trips. Open time will be 85%+ 4 and 5 day trips of which 85%+ of those will have a long STI/SDQ of which 50% of those will also have a double JFK/EWR as well. Lots of STI JFK JFK and EWR EWR SDQ.

The trick to not getting called is 3 day blocks, but thatís IF you can hold it and they award it. With this all being said..in base, reserve is still the way to go unless you can control your line. I keep my blood pressure low, roll with the changes, and find ďfunĒ in the less desirable overnight spots.

seekingblue
01-21-2019, 04:43 AM
do we still have the Zika list (avoiding places with Zika)? If so, how do we get on said list?

Flyby1206
01-21-2019, 04:58 AM
do we still have the Zika list (avoiding places with Zika)? If so, how do we get on said list?

Yes, might be able to call CS and be placed on it. Try CP office if that doesnít work.

https://www.hellojetblue.com/communications/system-chief-pilot-update-zika-policy-using-follow-me-trucks-fo-application-window-closing-system-bid-reminders-and-more

rvr1800
01-21-2019, 07:37 AM
do we still have the Zika list (avoiding places with Zika)? If so, how do we get on said list?

Yeah email your CP to get on it. FYI Bahamas and Grand Cayman are no longer on the CDC Zika list.

Rabid Seagull
01-21-2019, 08:18 AM
people keep talking about this, both on here and in person with me, but i can't find such a thing in the FSM. where is this protection in the FSM compared to the CBA?

the company cannot "change" your RAP once you have been assigned a RAP, without your concurrence, either in the FSM or the CBA. but neither the FSM (that I can find) nor the CBA say that the company cannot assign you a RAP that is only 6 hours long, instead of 10, or whatever.


Fsm : D 13.2 release early today for different scr duty period tomorrow: mutual agreement is required.

Contract: R.5.d : the company will notify a short call reserve before the end of the current day's RAP , regarding any modification to the pilot's RAP for the following day...

And because of R.5.a : RAP...shall not be greater than 10 hours.
They can certainly call you and say your RAP ends right now ( less than 10)


And no mutual agreement required.

I don't want to be a negative Nancy all the time with the new reserve rules, so...

I like the auto release on the last day provision.

Bidding more than 6 days on ( curious to see how that will be implemented)

Short call assignment pass (curious again)

See, i can be positive...and i didn't just get back from ' Leading Edge'

dontsurf
01-21-2019, 08:31 AM
so again, everyone is just pointing to the FSM where it says they can't CHANGE your RAP once you have been assigned a RAP. nowhere in the FSM does it say your RAP can't be less than 10 hours.

dontsurf
01-21-2019, 08:42 AM
The trick to not getting called is 3 day blocks, but thatís IF you can hold it and they award it.

in lgb, they just break the trips up and assign them to 3 day block people. so that isn't working out.

usmc-sgt
01-21-2019, 08:50 AM
in lgb, they just break the trips up and assign them to 3 day block people. so that isn't working out.

Iíve done those as well, no 4 day coverage so they have broken it. Still better than doing a 4+ day I suppose. Iíve got a stretch of 3 tomorrow and a later afternoon/early evening start. 4 day in there now that starts later..letís see if it ends up being a 3 day.

Plus side at implementation: max 12 hour duty for trip which touches red eye period. That would have helped me a few times.

Rabid Seagull
01-21-2019, 09:18 AM
so again, everyone is just pointing to the FSM where it says they can't CHANGE your RAP once you have been assigned a RAP. nowhere in the FSM does it say your RAP can't be less than 10 hours.

I would like ' mutual agreement' for $400 Alex.
We're obviously not on the same page ( which is good for various interptetations) . Fsm ...mutual agreement. Contract...say thank you and accept the change.

And you're correct that the fsm doesn't state RAP length.

Mattio
01-21-2019, 10:42 AM
so again, everyone is just pointing to the FSM where it says they can't CHANGE your RAP once you have been assigned a RAP. nowhere in the FSM does it say your RAP can't be less than 10 hours.

You're technically right but they didn't start trying to shorten RAP's until the 10am thing came into effect. Was an unintended side effect

I think the overarching theme is wanting some predictability with your schedule vs crew services wanting you to have none and do whatever they want with you. I don't think getting assigned a shorter RAP the day prior is going to end well, typically. However, it's better than getting called the same day as your RAP and them telling you you're ending early and starting early the following day (which they couldn't do under the FSM and they can under the CBA).

Mattio
01-21-2019, 11:28 AM
I also don't see us having much in the way of shortened RAP's assigned the day prior... They're going to keep you on the hook for the full 10 hours as long as they can and see how the day is going/the subsequent day is looking. (Keep you on the hook until the DRO/next day assignments are processed for the subsequent day.)



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