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View Full Version : Skywest or Envoy?


ChappieSinclair
01-03-2019, 10:22 AM
First time regional pilot, offers from both, desire to be based in TX asap. Beyond that not much preference.

Pros / Cons of each?


Thank you.


Check Complete
01-03-2019, 11:49 AM
Do you have any friends at Envoy that can tell you how many pilots have been terminated there?

CodyPilot
01-03-2019, 11:56 AM
I am as well Texas based. I went to SkyWest bc didnít wanna commute to reserve for LGA. I heard some guys fly 300 hours there first year at Envoy


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BigZ
01-03-2019, 12:03 PM
Decent chance of being Texas based at Envoy lately, depends on when your class would be.
New hires havenít gotten LGA in a while, lately 175/145 with ORD/DFW choice. Depends on how old you are too though, If low 20s can get stuck on the CRJ in ORD IF there are CRJ slots in the class - which happened exactly once since April of 2018.

ChappieSinclair
01-03-2019, 01:07 PM
Decent chance of being Texas based at Envoy lately, depends on when your class would be.
New hires havenít gotten LGA in a while, lately 175/145 with ORD/DFW choice. Depends on how old you are too though, If low 20s can get stuck on the CRJ in ORD IF there are CRJ slots in the class - which happened exactly once since April of 2018.


Thanks - i'm 43.
Envoy has early Feb class, Skywest has April class.

BigZ
01-03-2019, 01:31 PM
Thanks - i'm 43.
Envoy has early Feb class, Skywest has April class.

You should have a good chance of picking what you want at Envoy.
See how the three January classes play out - that's not a guarantee of how the February will go, but still.
Either way, plenty of time to get opinions and compare the two. If you do go to Skywest, I'd recommend giving Envoy a polite heads up vs noshowing to the class (and same the other way around)

ChappieSinclair
01-03-2019, 02:30 PM
You should have a good chance of picking what you want at Envoy.
See how the three January classes play out - that's not a guarantee of how the February will go, but still.
Either way, plenty of time to get opinions and compare the two. If you do go to Skywest, I'd recommend giving Envoy a polite heads up vs noshowing to the class (and same the other way around)



Appreciate the replies - i know these "xx vs. xy" are irritating, unanswerable questions. It kinda seems like these two are pretty comparable from a newb perspective, esp if flying 175 out of DFW for both.

Claxstarr
01-03-2019, 03:09 PM
Appreciate the replies - i know these "xx vs. xy" are irritating, unanswerable questions. It kinda seems like these two are pretty comparable from a newb perspective, esp if flying 175 out of DFW for both.

I will tell you that a buddy of mine went to envoy last year and spent 6 months at ORD and barely got any hours...
So he went to the DFW base to be closer to home for/shorter commute.
He got even less hours at DFW...
So now he's commuting all the way to LGA just to get hours because it was going to take him a few years to even get close to an upgrade.

I can't speak to the OO DFW schedule, but my buddy told me not to go to envoy if i wanted to be based in TX.

Take it with a grain of salt.

Otterbox
01-03-2019, 03:30 PM
Appreciate the replies - i know these "xx vs. xy" are irritating, unanswerable questions. It kinda seems like these two are pretty comparable from a newb perspective, esp if flying 175 out of DFW for both.

Skywest pays about $16/hr more as a NH than a Envoy does as a Maxed out FO. Flow is so long at all the AA WOs currently it shouldnít even be a consideration for most. Youíll be working for lower wages until between 50 and 55 at the earliest if you wait to flow.

bonanza
01-04-2019, 08:12 AM
Thanks - i'm 43.
Envoy has early Feb class, Skywest has April class.

Are you trying for the 175 or crj? I am surprised to hear soonest class is April for Skywest. If you want DFW at Skywest do the crj

korg128
01-04-2019, 08:28 AM
go with the flow. do not go to skw. you will get in put in LGA as a new hire. how does that sound?

if you have the option to flow but as well still apply to other places the choice is simple.

hawk21
01-04-2019, 10:30 AM
go with the flow. do not go to skw. you will get in put in LGA as a new hire. how does that sound?

if you have the option to flow but as well still apply to other places the choice is simple.


You will also likely end up in LGA at Envoy. However if you take the CRJ at SkyWest you have way more options.

dera
01-04-2019, 11:08 AM
You will also likely end up in LGA at Envoy. However if you take the CRJ at SkyWest you have way more options.

"likely"? No you won't.
When was the last time a NH got LGA at Envoy? June?

savedbythevnav
01-04-2019, 11:24 AM
go with the flow. do not go to skw. you will get in put in LGA as a new hire. how does that sound?

if you have the option to flow but as well still apply to other places the choice is simple.

Depends on aircraft. LGA isn't a CRJ base and 175 guys can get ORD within their first month or two on-line.

But yes, the flow is something to consider. Especially if you're dead set on going to AA.

ChappieSinclair
01-04-2019, 12:37 PM
I'm not deadset on AA at all - i'm deadset on a TX base.

I was thinking the 175 was the way to go for DFW.

Check Complete
01-04-2019, 02:13 PM
You know AA is always going to have TX operations.

SKW has been in and out of TX half a dozen times and always chases the buck, just depends which way the wind is blowing?

savedbythevnav
01-04-2019, 02:20 PM
I'm not deadset on AA at all - i'm deadset on a TX base.

I was thinking the 175 was the way to go for DFW.

You'll get a TX base at either airline, but like Check Complete said, OO has always been in and out of TX. I don't foresee OO leaving any time soon since they just inked the DFW flying a few months ago but anything is possible.

It's also worth comparing Envoy's contract to SkyWest's pay agreement. The little things like reserve rules, duty/trip rigs, incentive pay, 401k match, profit sharing, etc. add up and will make a difference.

ChappieSinclair
01-04-2019, 03:47 PM
Is there a place to reliably get that info about both to compare besides their recruiting brochures?

savedbythevnav
01-04-2019, 04:09 PM
Is there a place to reliably get that info about both to compare besides their recruiting brochures?

If you can find someone at Envoy to send you a PDF of their CBA and find a copy of SkyWest's Pilot Policy Manual (PPM) to page through, that's the best way to do it.

Hmm...who left this here? (https://file.io/vtze1n);)

amcnd
01-04-2019, 04:24 PM
If you can find someone at Envoy to send you a PDF of their CBA and find a copy of SkyWest's Pilot Policy Manual (PPM) to page through, that's the best way to do it.

Hmm...who left this here? (https://file.io/vtze1n);)

Better then that ask for trip sheets/ bid packs. My sked at SkyWest has been way better then my Schedule was when i was at Envoy..

hawk21
01-04-2019, 05:16 PM
"likely"? No you won't.
When was the last time a NH got LGA at Envoy? June?

Happens all the time unless youíre lucky enough to snag a 175 slot.

ChappieSinclair
01-04-2019, 05:23 PM
Better then that ask for trip sheets/ bid packs. My sked at SkyWest has been way better then my Schedule was when i was at Envoy..

Better in what way?

dera
01-04-2019, 05:40 PM
Happens all the time unless you’re lucky enough to snag a 175 slot.

Oh come on :rolleyes: . Last new hire FO to LGA was what, June or July?
All the time, yeah right.

word302
01-04-2019, 10:19 PM
Ok, couple things. Skywest only flies CRJs in DFW, no ERJs. DFW is a new and growing base. You will hold it very soon and your seniority will move very quickly.

watch
01-05-2019, 06:23 AM
Envoy is no-go for me due to lack of flight time. (What's the point of going to a regional with pay / flow if you're not flying?)

That said:

if you want to fly AS MUCH AS YOU CAN as a first year ERJ hire at Skywest, what kind of hours are you logging per month/year?

CRJ time too for other people's SA, but please specify (i'm only interested in LGA base)

ninerdriver
01-05-2019, 12:42 PM
(What's the point of going to a regional with pay / flow if you're not flying?)

(Re flow: having a pretty-much-guaranteed major job at the end of it)

There are lots of good reasons to not go to a WO with a flow. Passing up on a flow solely because you won't fly right away is not one of those reasons.

dera
01-05-2019, 01:22 PM
Envoy is no-go for me due to lack of flight time. (What's the point of going to a regional with pay / flow if you're not flying?)

That said:

if you want to fly AS MUCH AS YOU CAN as a first year ERJ hire at Skywest, what kind of hours are you logging per month/year?

CRJ time too for other people's SA, but please specify (i'm only interested in LGA base)

Not flying is not a problem on the 175.

Varsity
01-05-2019, 01:38 PM
Mesa, I'm dead serious.

DFW on the CRJ, IAH on the ERJ. You can fly your ass off on both of them. Big bonus, 3x open time, training is fast and actually pretty good.

Get in, get time, get out.

amcnd
01-05-2019, 02:08 PM
Mesa, I'm dead serious.

DFW on the CRJ, IAH on the ERJ. You can fly your ass off on both of them. Big bonus, 3x open time, training is fast and actually pretty good.

Get in, get time, get out.


I would agree with the Mesa theory.. Except if Mesa losses the CRJís for United they will be fat 300 pilots. Anyone hired into the CRJ at just the wrong time could be years on reserve..

MD-11Loader
01-06-2019, 08:33 AM
Envoy isnít bad on reserve if you live in base. Commuting to it sucks. Come to our thread and youíll be given proper education. That being said, we have a lot of growth on the 175 with the first of over forty new airplanes coming. In addition if the LAX rumors come true, that will be another twenty. The movement is fast. The flow is a nice back pocket item to have. ALPA is conservative in the flow movement and the company is optimistic. Thereís a middle ground somewhere. It all comes down to if you absolutely need the flow. Are you a white male without a degree and a checkride failure? If so then you might need a flow and they might take you. If not then drink some Kool-Aide and see what Skywest has to offer. They make more and have a lot more choices for bases.

Check Complete
01-06-2019, 11:32 AM
Envoy isn’t bad on reserve if you live in base. They make more and have a lot more choices for bases.

SKW reserve is living hell, doesn't matter if you live in domicile or not.

Take the SKW rates and subtract 5 to 7% due to the credit or better pay instead of the industry norm of block or better. Historical credit is controlled solely by the company. Our work rules are substandard and basically a pattern bargin element 2 to 5 years after the rest of the industry.

Your going to get LGA, DTW, MSP, or ORD out of training, the good domiciles take a while. If somebody says the got SLC or SFOout of training , they are super lucky.

Choose wisely, even now you will be in the regional hell for 2 to 5 years.

majorpilot
01-06-2019, 12:43 PM
Your going to get LGA, DTW, MSP, or ORD out of training, the good domiciles take a while. If somebody says the got SLC or SFOout of training , they are super lucky.




Thereís always Fresno!

amcnd
01-06-2019, 01:31 PM
And COS. NHís have been getting that also..

UnderCenter
01-06-2019, 02:31 PM
And COS. NHís have been getting that also..

And DFW...

amcnd
01-06-2019, 02:47 PM
With 50+ CRJ NHís every 2 weeks. the next few months- indefinite? they will spread people around. Smaller classes of 20 it was easy for them to send them all to ORD/DTW. I predict lots of movement this spring.

savedbythevnav
01-08-2019, 07:07 AM
Take the SKW rates and subtract 5 to 7% due to the credit or better pay instead of the industry norm of block or better. Historical credit is controlled solely by the company.


The 5%-7% is a number that someone decided sounds good. Don't get me wrong, it's stupid that we don't get true Block or Better, but lets not embellish the situation. Our Historical Credit model is almost verbatim in the PPM to what 9E has in their CBA (they call them SAT's--Scheduled Average Time or something).


Our work rules are substandard


Our rigs are better than everyone else but I will acknowledge that our OT incentive system, reserve rules and proffering is absolutely f*cking stupid when in fact we are well taken care of. It's all relative and we all want what we don't seem to have.


My point to everyone is this: As much as pilots (including myself) love to complain, it's easy for us to make the case that we work at the worst hell hole on earth.

Be wary of the bold statements.

Check Complete
01-08-2019, 02:45 PM
Go into open time and find as many trips as you can without a DH or stand up, there's your -5 to 7%, but that's also the percentage one of the SAPA number guru's came up with.

Find out how many ALPA carriers have fired pilots for flying mistakes. If it's as many as SKW, I'll let it go. Don't tell me that we have anything more than what was bargained for at other airlines. We are always behind the curve and with the industry lagging pay scales approved you can expect it to be that way for years.

The truth.....

Jefferson
01-08-2019, 03:11 PM
The sale of XJT to UAL will begin the long slow painful decline of SKYW... Avoid at all cost.

Skyhawk121
01-08-2019, 03:14 PM
Go into open time and find as many trips as you can without a DH or stand up, there's your -5 to 7%, but that's also the percentage one of the SAPA number guru's came up with.

Find out how many ALPA carriers have fired pilots for flying mistakes. If it's as many as SKW, I'll let it go. Don't tell me that we have anything more than what was bargained for at other airlines. We are always behind the curve and with the industry lagging pay scales approved you can expect it to be that way for years.

The truth.....

Holy crap. Why are you so bitter? There is no way the company has screwed you nearly as badly as your attitude makes it seem like they have. You obviously can't hate it too much since you have frequently stated that you have been here for 20+ years. Did you not want to go to a major? Or will they just not touch you with a 10 foot pole because they can smell the poison coming off of you?

amcnd
01-08-2019, 03:21 PM
The sale of XJT to UAL will begin the long slow painful decline of SKYW... Avoid at all cost.

How do you figure? Secured the UA flying plus posible additional aircraft,?? That sounds like continued quick upgrade and movement so uou can get in, Get your time and get out.. Thats just the UA flying. 1/4th what OO does..

Check Complete
01-08-2019, 04:54 PM
Holy crap. Why are you so bitter? There is no way the company has screwed you nearly as badly as your attitude makes it seem like they have. You obviously can't hate it too much since you have frequently stated that you have been here for 20+ years. Did you not want to go to a major? Or will they just not touch you with a 10 foot pole because they can smell the poison coming off of you?


I shower...

hawk21
01-08-2019, 08:03 PM
The sale of XJT to UAL will begin the long slow painful decline of SKYW... Avoid at all cost.

This is such nonsense.

havick206
01-09-2019, 03:46 AM
I will tell you that a buddy of mine went to envoy last year and spent 6 months at ORD and barely got any hours...
So he went to the DFW base to be closer to home for/shorter commute.
He got even less hours at DFW...
So now he's commuting all the way to LGA just to get hours because it was going to take him a few years to even get close to an upgrade.

I can't speak to the OO DFW schedule, but my buddy told me not to go to envoy if i wanted to be based in TX.

Take it with a grain of salt.

Thatís on the 145. Basically all new hire classes are 175 at the moment and new hires on the 175 are flying lots in both bases.

Erj135dude
01-09-2019, 08:23 AM
Thatís on the 145. Basically all new hire classes are 175 at the moment and new hires on the 175 are flying lots in both bases.

It's always hard to know first hand I know, but I get different opinions from different envoy pilots.

A friend of mine has been at Envoy for a few months now, 175/ORD and he's on reserve, barely flew any hours, and I saw his paystubs, my eyes are still bleeding. Then another buddy of mine just got hired 175/DFW and he says he's gonna fly quite a bit, plus barely no reserve. What's the deal here, someone must be lying lol.

UncreativeUser
01-09-2019, 08:49 PM
It's always hard to know first hand I know, but I get different opinions from different envoy pilots.



A friend of mine has been at Envoy for a few months now, 175/ORD and he's on reserve, barely flew any hours, and I saw his paystubs, my eyes are still bleeding. Then another buddy of mine just got hired 175/DFW and he says he's gonna fly quite a bit, plus barely no reserve. What's the deal here, someone must be lying lol.



Iíll give my 2 cents real quick

Been on reserve and have 90 hours in about a month and a half. I am based on the 175 in ORD.

It really depends on how hard you wanna work with this combination right now since I pick up OT, as well as 175 DFW. We are getting 25 brand new 175s this year so itís a growing fleet and thatís where you obviously wanna be.

If you get the 145, your expectations may be shattered. So really itís a gamble. However, every class the last 2 months besides one all 145 class have all been 175 ORD/DFW.

Donít rely on the flow to get to the majors, but more rather the quicker seniority. I held every single holiday off besides New Years Day and Iíve been here less than 2 months. To say the flow has no benefit is coming from people looking at it from one angle instead of multiple.

With that said, flow= less pay right now. We fill classes to the brim and it gives AAG (not envoy) any incentive to give pay raises until less ppl show up.

To recap, the only reason you should come here is if you get the 175. I commute from MSP and I still think I made a great choice.


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Erj135dude
01-09-2019, 09:06 PM
So my envoy friend (ORD/175) just doesn't know how to make things work I guess lol.

Are paychecks decent? the one he showed me was terrible!

UncreativeUser
01-12-2019, 09:13 AM
So my envoy friend (ORD/175) just doesn't know how to make things work I guess lol.



Are paychecks decent? the one he showed me was terrible!



Oh if your not flying itís brutal. Iím guessing your friend is on reserve, you will make a lot less. Thereís a lot of OT that we can pick up that makes up the slack for it however, and when you hold the line that value can increase even more especially with OT. But without that OT, we are one of the lower paying regionals now for the time being and living off of guarantee is not ideal


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