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FlyGuy17
01-12-2019, 07:54 PM
Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster.

A few questions, after my quals.

-Former tanker pilot, current RPA pilot
-Flew T-38s in pilot training (not sure if it matters at this point)
-1850 TT
-850 TPIC
-ATP complete (back in 2016)
-B737, B707, and B727 type ratings
-ADSC ends in 2021

Now for the negative, I have a Q3 and Q2 on my Form 8 record. Both can be explained as a learning experience. I can go into more details in a PM, if need be.

Some questions:

1) I will be 5 years non-current when my ADSC expires in 2021. Will the regionals still hire me after this much time out of the cockpit?

2) If the regionals will hire me, should I consider a wholly owned AA regional due to my Q3 and Q2?

3) If the regionals won't hire me being 5 years non-current, what do you recommend as the best route for getting current? Would going to an instrument/multi-engine refresher sim course fit the bill, or are they going to be looking for something more?

4) Some regionals are saying they want a "current ATP written." Does this not apply to me since I already have the ATP, or will I have to re-take the written exam before getting hired?

My goal is to end up at a legacy/major airline some day, and preferably ASAP for obvious reasons. I'm willing to do however much time is needed at a regional, to include waiting on the flow if not picked up OTS. I have zero qualms being at a regional making less pay. In fact, I look forward to flying at a regional and getting back into the swing of things after being away from flying. I have no other blemishes on my record (no arrests, or anything like that). I recently saw that some non-current military pilots are having difficulty getting picked up by a regional because of the lack of currency, and it has me concerned. I don't want to miss out on the hiring that's going on and projected to go on.

Thanks for all the input!


Excargodog
01-12-2019, 08:19 PM
“1) I will be 5 years non-current when my ADSC expires in 2021. Will the regionals still hire me after this much time out of the cockpit?”

Yes. My recommendation is that you get some instrument refresher training, even just at the aero club if your base has one. It needn’t be multiengine. Look over the online Jeppesen guide to be able to convert from FLIP charts to Jepp approach plates.

If you can explain the Q3 and Q2 the regionals will have no trouble hiring you. If you can’t explain them, they will most likely hire you anyway. You do not need a current ATP written if you already have an ATP.

I understand the 707 type as a tanker. Where did the two others come from?

And no, unless you are planning on screwing up badly at a regional, I wouldn’t worry overmuch about flow. Your fellow new hires will typically have 1500 hours total time, all but fifty hours of it single engine, or quite possibly only twenty five hours of multi engine, generally in a Seneca. They are unlikely to have ANY turbine PIC other than perhaps C208 time and have likely flown nothing that was capable of cruising at the approach speed of a T-38.

Doing well in 121 training is strongly dependent upon having a good sim partner. Your classmates will be fighting each other to get you as their sim partner.

FlyGuy17
01-12-2019, 08:31 PM
Regarding the two other type ratings:

I received the B737 type rating concurrently while I got the ATP. The B727 type rating got added on when I got the B707 type because the two are essentially the same aircraft apparently. So technically I only have time in type for the B707, but I figured the B737 type rating also showed motivation and ability to learn big airplanes even though I have no time in it.

Also, I didn't become an IP in the tanker since I went RPAs, but should I try to become and IP in the RPA? Would the airlines care at all about that? It seems like they don't care at all about RPA time so I figure they won't care about IP time in it either.

I won't be able to go back to the tanker prior to getting out of the AF either. By time I'm projected to go back, and finish requal training, and actually get to my next base, I'd be adding AT LEAST 1.5 years to my ADSC. I'd rather just spend that time at a regional getting part 121 experience and being a free human being.


Phoenix21
01-12-2019, 08:33 PM
Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster.

A few questions, after my quals.

-Former tanker pilot, current RPA pilot
-Flew T-38s in pilot training (not sure if it matters at this point)
-1850 TT
-850 TPIC
-ATP complete (back in 2016)
-B737, B707, and B727 type ratings
-ADSC ends in 2021

Now for the negative, I have a Q3 and Q2 on my Form 8 record. Both can be explained as a learning experience. I can go into more details in a PM, if need be.

Some questions:

1) I will be 5 years non-current when my ADSC expires in 2021. Will the regionals still hire me after this much time out of the cockpit?

2) If the regionals will hire me, should I consider a wholly owned AA regional due to my Q3 and Q2?

3) If the regionals won't hire me being 5 years non-current, what do you recommend as the best route for getting current? Would going to an instrument/multi-engine refresher sim course fit the bill, or are they going to be looking for something more?

4) Some regionals are saying they want a "current ATP written." Does this not apply to me since I already have the ATP, or will I have to re-take the written exam before getting hired?

My goal is to end up at a legacy/major airline some day, and preferably ASAP for obvious reasons. I'm willing to do however much time is needed at a regional, to include waiting on the flow if not picked up OTS. I have zero qualms being at a regional making less pay. In fact, I look forward to flying at a regional and getting back into the swing of things after being away from flying. I have no other blemishes on my record (no arrests, or anything like that). I recently saw that some non-current military pilots are having difficulty getting picked up by a regional because of the lack of currency, and it has me concerned. I don't want to miss out on the hiring that's going on and projected to go on.

Thanks for all the input!

Get an instructment proficiency check and a BFR/ some instrument currency and a regional will take you.

AA Wholly Owned regionals are options, but not the only game in town. Endeavor, Republic and Skywest all pay more and have a decent QOL for your regional stay. Q2/3 shouldnít be deal killers with some successful 121 time under your belt.

FlyGuy17
01-12-2019, 08:40 PM
Phoenix21, are you saying I should get an actual FAA check ride in instrument flight? Or just get a refresher course? I'd rather not subject myself to an FAA check ride if I can avoid it. The last thing I need is another blemish, and I've heard some FAA check airman can be inconsistent in their grading criteria. Would getting some instrument sim time from a reputable company/course suffice?

Also, I believe there is a flying club at my base. I'll check on this, and if there is then I'm going to start flying with them very soon. I have several friends with their own airplanes that I could fly in, but I'm not sure the airlines would view GA piston time as anything useful. Any inputs on this?

Phoenix21
01-12-2019, 08:44 PM
Phoenix21, are you saying I should get an actual FAA check ride in instrument flight? Or just get a refresher course? I'd rather not subject myself to an FAA check ride if I can avoid it. The last thing I need is another blemish, and I've heard some FAA check airman can be inconsistent in their grading criteria. Would getting some instrument sim time from a reputable company/course suffice?

Also, I believe there is a flying club at my base. I'll check on this, and if there is then I'm going to start flying with them very soon. I have several friends with their own airplanes that I could fly in, but I'm not sure the airlines would view GA piston time as anything useful. Any inputs on this?

A refresher... get instrument current. With that and a minimal amount of time under your belt in the last 6 months when you apply youíll be fine at regionals.

BeatNavy
01-12-2019, 09:04 PM
Can you palace chase and go to a ANG/Res tanker squadron in say the next 6-9 months? Gets you current, gets you back in a heavy, would make regional life easier with mil leave options. Just a thought. Donít like the guard after you get there? Punch or get a non flying job to finish out.

FlyGuy17
01-12-2019, 09:16 PM
Can you palace chase and go to a ANG/Res tanker squadron in say the next 6-9 months? Gets you current, gets you back in a heavy, would make regional life easier with mil leave options. Just a thought. Donít like the guard after you get there? Punch or get a non flying job to finish out.

I have definitely explored the palace chase/palace front option. However, I'm leaning against it for several reasons. I really want to cut ties completely with the Air Force. I want to serve out my time, honorably separate, and never have to think about the military again. I cherish my time in the military and all the amazing friends I've made, but I've given all I can give and I'm ready to move on to the next chapter, even if it means making slightly less money due to having to pay for health insurance, etc. Also, I don't want to have to commute to my Guard job while flying for the airlines. I'd rather just focus my time and effort on being the best pilot in whatever aircraft I'm flying for the regionals. Also, I've heard it makes airlines more comfortable if they know you're never going to drop mil leave on them. I understand it's illegal for them to not hire you for being in the Guard, but that doesn't mean they won't find another excuse to not hire you if they're on the fence, right?

Excargodog
01-12-2019, 09:24 PM
ď I have several friends with their own airplanes that I could fly in, but I'm not sure the airlines would view GA piston time as anything useful. Any inputs on this?Ē

GA piston time is all that the majority of your indoc class will have at the regionals, excepting a handful with Cessna 208 time. If you can get PIC time cheaply, either with your friends or at the aero club, do it. But the key thing is to get the instrument refresher, and no, not a FAA check ride.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/61.57

Excargodog
01-12-2019, 09:31 PM
ďI understand it's illegal for them to not hire you for being in the Guard, but that doesn't mean they won't find another excuse to not hire you if they're on the fence, right?Ē

Not most peopleís experience. Generally being in the Guard or Reserve is a big plus in the regionals AND in the majors, but YMMV. Just serving your ADSC for UPT is more military service than most people will ever do. If your fun meter is pegged and you need to pull the handles, so be it. But no, I think it is unlikely being in the Guard or Reserve will hurt you and it does have real advantages. Perhaps Rickair will put his two cents worth in, but the decision is yours. You are entitled to make it.

atpcliff
01-13-2019, 01:49 AM
Lots of regionals will hire you, ASAP. If you want, you can do nothing to prepare, and just do your normal AF studying and training will be no problem. Today's regionals are used to VERY low experienced pilots, who need lots more training than even two years ago.

If you want to prepare ahead, I recommend getting a PC sim, and flying that at home and/or doing sim training at your local FBO with an instructor...that probably helped me the most when I came back. They have REALLY GREAT software now for PC sim training...

Note: Recently read about a guy out of flying for 20 years...came back with no prep and had no problems...

AFTrainerGuy
01-13-2019, 06:21 AM
Regarding the two other type ratings:

I received the B737 type rating concurrently while I got the ATP. The B727 type rating got added on when I got the B707 type because the two are essentially the same aircraft apparently. So technically I only have time in type for the B707, but I figured the B737 type rating also showed motivation and ability to learn big airplanes even though I have no time in it.

Also, I didn't become an IP in the tanker since I went RPAs, but should I try to become and IP in the RPA? Would the airlines care at all about that? It seems like they don't care at all about RPA time so I figure they won't care about IP time in it either.

I won't be able to go back to the tanker prior to getting out of the AF either. By time I'm projected to go back, and finish requal training, and actually get to my next base, I'd be adding AT LEAST 1.5 years to my ADSC. I'd rather just spend that time at a regional getting part 121 experience and being a free human being.

It doesnít really matter except just to save you a typo on your app and maybe a uncomfortable question in a interview, but the other type rating we got with the B-707 (I was former KC135 too) was a B-720, not a 727. The 727 and the KC135 are completely different. The 727 was a 3 engine jet, T-tail, with all engines mounted in the back. You obviously know the 135. If itís on your license, most likely a FSDO screw up, but so you know.

Again... not trying to be that guy

Sliceback
01-13-2019, 06:36 AM
AFTrainer - trying to tell an airline guy that the 727 type is the same as the 707 might be a good way to not get hired. If it's just an accidental typo here's it's no big deal.

If it's on a license it should be fixed.

To the OP - you have your CFI? Military conversion? You can fly on the side and currency would be a non-issue. If anything it could show a dedicated effort to stay flying. I know a guy, non military current, who went from the Pentagon in a non flying slot and had interview offers from DL, UA, and SW. How? Being a MEL CFI in his time off might have paid HUGE dividends. Instead of maybe having to spend 6-12 months at a regional he retired on Friday(?) and went to new hire training on Monday. That additional 6-12 months at the end of his career will be worth $250-500K+ (direct salary plus retirement principal growth minus regional FO pay). So is flying as a CFI in you limited time off worth $75/hr? Maybe, maybe not. If it gets you hired 6-12 months sooner at a major? For $250-500K? Most guys would put the effort in for that much money.

BeatNavy
01-13-2019, 06:39 AM
I have definitely explored the palace chase/palace front option. However, I'm leaning against it for several reasons. I really want to cut ties completely with the Air Force. I want to serve out my time, honorably separate, and never have to think about the military again. I cherish my time in the military and all the amazing friends I've made, but I've given all I can give and I'm ready to move on to the next chapter, even if it means making slightly less money due to having to pay for health insurance, etc. Also, I don't want to have to commute to my Guard job while flying for the airlines. I'd rather just focus my time and effort on being the best pilot in whatever aircraft I'm flying for the regionals. Also, I've heard it makes airlines more comfortable if they know you're never going to drop mil leave on them. I understand it's illegal for them to not hire you for being in the Guard, but that doesn't mean they won't find another excuse to not hire you if they're on the fence, right?

My $.02...if you PC/PF, get current in a tanker again and are hired into a TR/TG job, the AF will pay for your currency/recency, and your commitment to blue will not be that much longer than it is now, and, the biggest thing, it will be in a part time capacity if you want it to be. It gives you flexibility and options. I couldnít wait to be completely out of the army and go to the airlines. Out of the IRR and everything. After a few years out, here I am in big blue. If I had mil leave and TRS while at a regional my life would have been a lot better. And as a tanker dude youíre likely in high guard/res demand. I will also say that your perspective of blue may be different as a part timer, and depending on how things shake out it may accelerate your timeline to a major. But if you could do it quickly, get back in the jet fairly quickly, even if you give it just a small trial period (until your guard adsc is up or whatever it is for requalling (full TX?)) it will help a lot imo with flexibility over waiting 1.5 years then punching. I would hands down do 3 part time guard years with an airline job over 1.5 AD years. Just my perspective. You know you and your situation best. I know the feeling of wanting to leave it all behind, forever (and the worse feeling of getting back in after enjoying straight airlines for several years). Good luck whatever you decide.

pangolin
01-13-2019, 06:43 AM
You wonít have trouble getting hired. The advice given here is all to help you do well in the training.

I have definitely explored the palace chase/palace front option. However, I'm leaning against it for several reasons. I really want to cut ties completely with the Air Force. I want to serve out my time, honorably separate, and never have to think about the military again. I cherish my time in the military and all the amazing friends I've made, but I've given all I can give and I'm ready to move on to the next chapter, even if it means making slightly less money due to having to pay for health insurance, etc. Also, I don't want to have to commute to my Guard job while flying for the airlines. I'd rather just focus my time and effort on being the best pilot in whatever aircraft I'm flying for the regionals. Also, I've heard it makes airlines more comfortable if they know you're never going to drop mil leave on them. I understand it's illegal for them to not hire you for being in the Guard, but that doesn't mean they won't find another excuse to not hire you if they're on the fence, right?

AFTrainerGuy
01-13-2019, 09:09 AM
AFTrainer - trying to tell an airline guy that the 727 type is the same as the 707 might be a good way to not get hired. If it's just an accidental typo here's it's no big deal.

If it's on a license it should be fixed.

To the OP - you have your CFI? Military conversion? You can fly on the side and currency would be a non-issue. If anything it could show a dedicated effort to stay flying. I know a guy, non military current, who went from the Pentagon in a non flying slot and had interview offers from DL, UA, and SW. How? Being a MEL CFI in his time off might have paid HUGE dividends. Instead of maybe having to spend 6-12 months at a regional he retired on Friday(?) and went to new hire training on Monday. That additional 6-12 months at the end of his career will be worth $250-500K+ (direct salary plus retirement principal growth minus regional FO pay). So is flying as a CFI in you limited time off worth $75/hr? Maybe, maybe not. If it gets you hired 6-12 months sooner at a major? For $250-500K? Most guys would put the effort in for that much money.

Slice... thatís what I was saying. A 727 has no relation to a 707, although we did get a b-720 type (I donít even know what it is). My warning to him was if itís a typo, no big deal, but if it came up in a interview and he answered it the way he did here (they were the same), it might give a lot of looks around the room. Maybe I wrote my j it UAL response wrong, but what you said is what I was trying to say.... those two airplanes have really nothing in common at all (727 vs 707)

FlyGuy17
01-13-2019, 09:36 AM
Hey guys, sorry I meant B-720, and that is whatís on my license, so all is good there. Just a typo.

I recently purchased two popular books to study up and refresh. They are ďEverything ExplainedĒ and ďTurbine Pilots Flight ManualĒ

Based on everyoneís input, it seems like it will be easy to get hired, but I still plan to show up prepared and refreshed. Iíll be taking a refresher course and doing some flying club stuff, Iím also going to reconsider the Guard based on the input so far.

Guess the next question is which regional to focus on. I suppose a lot can change in 2 years though.

Prettywhacked1
01-13-2019, 09:41 AM
If you have the same type from your FSDO that most tanker folks get, then you have a 720 one along with your 707, not a 727.
The 720 was a hit with a few foreign carriers but not really seen in the US. Has been issued with the 707 as a common type for eons.

IMHO, of course.

tomgoodman
01-13-2019, 11:14 AM
The B720 was given that model number for marketing reasons, so it would appear to be a brand new design, although being just a lighter short-range version of the original 707-120. Boeing later replaced it with the 727.

Hrkdrivr
01-13-2019, 11:28 AM
I think youíre right that airlines donít care about RPA time, necessarily (not sure), but if you can get IP-qualified in RPAs without extending your ADSC it would be worthwhile. Anything that shows progression and initiative in whatever youíre doing will help separate you from others.

Sliceback
01-13-2019, 01:24 PM
Slice... thatís what I was saying. A 727 has no relation to a 707, although we did get a b-720 type (I donít even know what it is). My warning to him was if itís a typo, no big deal, but if it came up in a interview and he answered it the way he did here (they were the same), it might give a lot of looks around the room. Maybe I wrote my j it UAL response wrong, but what you said is what I was trying to say.... those two airplanes have really nothing in common at all (727 vs 707)

We were in agreement. I just wrote it differently.

pony172
01-13-2019, 01:29 PM
You should get a call from someone a few hours after you put in your app. You are Mil, you're trainable. Besides that, you are already RPA qualified. Find a guard unit close to your regional and stay in. No easier way to supplement your income and get cheap insurance. Yeah, I know you are bitter about AD, but it's the Guard dude. Check it out.

rickair7777
01-13-2019, 04:42 PM
Not most peopleís experience. Generally being in the Guard or Reserve is a big plus in the regionals AND in the majors, but YMMV. Just serving your ADSC for UPT is more military service than most people will ever do. If your fun meter is pegged and you need to pull the handles, so be it. But no, I think it is unlikely being in the Guard or Reserve will hurt you and it does have real advantages. Perhaps Rickair will put his two cents worth in, but the decision is yours. You are entitled to make it.

I have it from the inside at one big legacy that they love military, but love it even better if you're retired.

I would have to concur that if you're on the fence, it might tip the scales the wrong way. I believe it may have for me, my prospects improved after I started dropping hints about looming HYT.

rickair7777
01-13-2019, 04:46 PM
It doesn’t really matter except just to save you a typo on your app and maybe a uncomfortable question in a interview, but the other type rating we got with the B-707 (I was former KC135 too) was a B-720, not a 727. The 727 and the KC135 are completely different. The 727 was a 3 engine jet, T-tail, with all engines mounted in the back. You obviously know the 135. If it’s on your license, most likely a FSDO screw up, but so you know.

Again... not trying to be that guy

I'll be that guy. I would honestly try to get that fixed.

If it's too hard to get fixed, then it's very, very easy to have the FAA remove it (at least once they come back to work...). Losing out on the B-720 type won't hurt you at all.

Some interviews are anal... I would not want to present an FAA cert with a type that I simply did not have. The question will come up for sure.

hindsight2020
01-13-2019, 04:58 PM
I know the OP didn't talk about thatdirectly, but what about Q3s in this environment wrt the majors? (BTW OP, a Q2 is not a Q3, it's a Q1 as far as airlines are concerned..unless we're talking about TIER ONE Delta... I keed I keed)

His times are low for a heavy guy. Being a T-38 stud in UPT is immaterial since he didn't track fighters nor attain IP quals in the -38. They look at him as a heavy guy, and those hours are low for the heavy types, good bad or indifferent. So these "imperfections" can yield a much longer stint at a regional than he's bargaining for. I know it's common to assume mil guys can write their own ticket to the majors, but that's simply facts not in evidence. I know a couple guys with clean and checkered records alike, not getting a call. Some have quit the regionals cold turkey and gone back to the reserves with tail between legs due to not being able to continue to afford the paycut nor the family crushing schedules of the regionals. Talk about having to explain that resignation at a major interview... food for thought.

I would go Guard/Reserve on a non-RPA unit and keep the applications at the majors. I think in his situation, it might be iffy merely doing token time at the regionals somehow going to facilitate a major calling. At least on the ARC side he'll get paid and have better control of his schedule vs junior @ a regional.

Hacker15e
01-13-2019, 06:59 PM
Now for the negative, I have a Q3 and Q2 on my Form 8 record.


Outside the AF fishbowl, this is not a big deal at any level of the 121 enterprise.

FlyGuy17
01-13-2019, 07:25 PM
Everyone, just to clear up the type rating thing again, I have the B-720 along with the B-707 and B-737. When I originally said the B-727 it was a typo. I got the B-737 alongside when I got the ATP.

Rickair777, are you saying I should be cautious about considering the Guard? I know that itís illegal for them to not hire you based on being in the Guard. But airlines are businesses, and it hurts the bottom line when people drop mil leave. I fully understand the benefits of going to the Guard and Iím actually reconsidering it based on everyoneís inputs. However, it canít hurt for them to know theyíll never get mil leave dropped on them from me, right?

SaltyDog
01-13-2019, 08:57 PM
Everyone, just to clear up the type rating thing again, I have the B-720 along with the B-707 and B-737. When I originally said the B-727 it was a typo. I got the B-737 alongside when I got the ATP.

Rickair777, are you saying I should be cautious about considering the Guard? I know that itís illegal for them to not hire you based on being in the Guard. But airlines are businesses, and it hurts the bottom line when people drop mil leave. I fully understand the benefits of going to the Guard and Iím actually reconsidering it based on everyoneís inputs. However, it canít hurt for them to know theyíll never get mil leave dropped on them from me, right?

If your concerned a regional wont hire you because of ongoing military service, your incorrect.

Naturally every employer states they support USERRA and the military (publicly) and of course they prefer all military new hires are retired or former military with no future military service. It is what it is, yet daily, military reserve and guard pilots are indeed hired by the regional, majors and legacy carriers.

If you are that concerned, separate from USAF, get hired, THEN go and join a Guard/Reserve unit. You can honestly state not in the military when getting the job, get hired, then join AFTER your hired. If you then get terminated for military service, you just won a lottery ticket and DOL VETS and the Justice (DOJ) folks will jump on your case.
The airlines are not that stupid though. IF they terminate, will terminate for some other non military reason, that's the work around.
Don't lie in any application, but don't focus on future military service in an interview if already affiliating or in the Guard/Reserves. Note the questions they ask, it borders on other discrimination cases of
race, color, religion, sex (including gender identity, sexual orientation, and pregnancy), national origin, age (40 or older), disability or genetic information. If they focus on it during the interview, they expose themselves to a possible complaint.
My Summary: If mainline Company A wont hire, likely not because of military affiliation in today's market. Again, interviews are interviews, not exposes of detailed military service expectations. Join a unit and do what is best for you and our country. Employers hire many military folks.
Good fortunes ahead!

BFMthisA10
01-14-2019, 03:52 AM
I think youíre right that airlines donít care about RPA time, necessarily (not sure), but if you can get IP-qualified in RPAs without extending your ADSC it would be worthwhile. Anything that shows progression and initiative in whatever youíre doing will help separate you from others.Dissenting viewpoint, but Iím still waiting for a call, fwiw:
Of the two options, bailing from the AF, and RPAs in particular, is a much shorter route to the target than investing any additional time along that line of effort. On advice of prep and app reviews, I have carefully removed all reference or insinuation of ďflightĒ or ďsortiesĒ or ďtimeĒ or ďairframeĒ from my applications and resume with respect to my time in RPAville. It was good, meaningful management experience, but little else. Heck, my King Air/TwOtter skydiver flying in college carries more weight on my resume than that 3yr ďneeds of the AFĒ assignment.
To the original question, yes you will get a call from regionals between two hours and two weeks from when you hit submit. Choose wisely based on domicile, if nothing else.

duece12345
01-14-2019, 04:01 AM
Outside the AF fishbowl, this is not a big deal at any level of the 121 enterprise.

Fact. Know many guys that slipped up along the way. Donít be a douche in the interview and own your mistake.

rickair7777
01-14-2019, 06:08 AM
Rickair777, are you saying I should be cautious about considering the Guard? I know that itís illegal for them to not hire you based on being in the Guard. But airlines are businesses, and it hurts the bottom line when people drop mil leave. I fully understand the benefits of going to the Guard and Iím actually reconsidering it based on everyoneís inputs. However, it canít hurt for them to know theyíll never get mil leave dropped on them from me, right?

I wouldn't change your plans either way. But if it's convenient to be in the IRR when you interview for majors that might enhance your odds. But it's hard to predict when you'll get called.

FlyGuy17
01-17-2019, 04:09 PM
With regard to the RPA time, should I not even list anything about it on the resume and application other than the employment history? During the interviews I can mention it as the "thing" I was doing during my 5 year stint away from flying and just leave it at that. Are they going to want to see the RPA Form 8s along with all the other flying Form 8s, or should I just leave those out in order to waste less of their time during their app review?

atpcliff
01-17-2019, 06:46 PM
When I applied at regionals, they didn't care about my military records. I'm assuming it is still the same today.

rickair7777
01-18-2019, 06:30 AM
With regard to the RPA time, should I not even list anything about it on the resume and application other than the employment history? During the interviews I can mention it as the "thing" I was doing during my 5 year stint away from flying and just leave it at that. Are they going to want to see the RPA Form 8s along with all the other flying Form 8s, or should I just leave those out in order to waste less of their time during their app review?

Do not mix RPA and manned numbers in any way. You could list RPA hours in the resume billet covering that duty assignment. Or not. They don't count for anything with airlines.

I doubt they would care about RPA docs from the mil, but if you have it might as well bring it to the interview. But don't take it out unless asked. That last applies for all records of any sort, except for LOR's or awards. Don't risk them finding something weird in a document they didn't ask for. Possible exception for mitigating docs which support your explanation of an adverse event (ex, expungement record for a DUI).

FlyGuy17
01-26-2019, 10:58 PM
Another quick question. Based on my experience, how long of a stint can I expect to do at the regionals? I know my military flying experience is far less than most when they get out, so Iíd like to keep my expectations in check. Also, this is assuming no recession or other things that would hamper the hiring.

Iím sort of battling with the idea of a wholly owned vs a non-WO regional like Skywest or Republic. Any input on this would also be appreciated!

Phoenix21
01-27-2019, 12:28 AM
Another quick question. Based on my experience, how long of a stint can I expect to do at the regionals? I know my military flying experience is far less than most when they get out, so Iíd like to keep my expectations in check. Also, this is assuming no recession or other things that would hamper the hiring.

Iím sort of battling with the idea of a wholly owned vs a non-WO regional like Skywest or Republic. Any input on this would also be appreciated!

3 years? 5 years? Less? Who knows.

Even if itís 5 years, all the WO flows are well above that. Go to the highest paying regional that you can drive to work at in case you have to spend a decent stint of time there so you wonít be miserable.

rickair7777
01-27-2019, 06:54 AM
3 years? 5 years? Less? Who knows.

Even if itís 5 years, all the WO flows are well above that. Go to the highest paying regional that you can drive to work at in case you have to spend a decent stint of time there so you wonít be miserable.

I would guess 3, maybe even a little less. The hiring will be at peak right about then. I see (Navy) helo guys getting called after 18 months. They had some FW IP time, maybe 1000.

Lemrand4535
01-28-2019, 02:00 PM
I am currently a MWS IP on Active Duty stationed OCONUS planning to separate in 11 months. I have 2600 hrs total time and ~1400 PIC, but I do NOT have my ATP quite yet due to bad timing and other things that have come up recently.

Given how things have improved recently at the regionals, would it be worth straight up applying to the regionals, having the regional pay and take care of my ATP, and continue to keep flying eventually working my way towards a mainline carrier? Or based on how many hours I have and my recency in the aircraft right now, should I pay for my ATP course out of pocket, complete it ASAP, and start applying to mainline carriers? My main concern is that I don't want to sit idle for 6+ months waiting for a job offer and continue to do nothing for a long period after I separate.

I know a part-time guard/reserve flying gig could also be an option while waiting for the call, but to me it seems like going to a regional would also fill this void now.

ChrisInWI
02-02-2019, 10:10 AM
FWIW
I was a non-current military pilot (1.5 yrs non flying prior to retirement) with a busted FAA check ride in my past. No surprise but not a single nibble from the Majors. I went to a regional (with an HQ in Wisconsin) and spent 6 months flying the line. Great company with great people and solid training to make me comfortable flying 121 ops in and out of the busiest airports to uncontrolled airports. I'm very happy with my time at the regionals and can say without a doubt that it was why I got a quick job offer at a Major airline.

Regional schedules and first-year life are traumatic to say the least. The QAL in the military at the end of your career will probably be higher than first year airline life. A retirement check can make it sustainable. If you can go thru an AF re-qual back into a manned platform you might avoid the regionals all together and be able to cut your 121 teeth on heavy iron with a good paycheck. If that doesn't work then regionals are still a great option to learn the airline world from the trenches...but again having that retirement income will significantly help.

Hedging with a Guard/Reserve job has it's benefits as outlined in other posts but may make an active duty retirement/check-of-the-month a much longer prospect. Sounds like you have great options and the industry will probably pull you in no matter which road you choose. The majors seemed to like hearing underdog stories with examples of leadership in tough times, I bet your RPA experience will probably render some great examples even if the log book doesn't benefit from it.

The regionals will scoop you up and get you flying right away. They offer a lot of bonus money in hopes of retaining you longer. Your past blemishes don't make you unique...makes you a normal pilot. Sounds like your resume (barring any skeletons) should produce upward mobility pretty quick.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

FlyGuy17
02-02-2019, 10:43 AM
Chris, I appreciate the helpful info. What are your thoughts on a wholly owned as a primary option for their flow as a backup? Is it even worth my time to consider the flow, or should I just go for decent QOL such as Republic or Skywest? That being said, Republic would have to improve their class wait times before Iíd try going there. Iím flexible with location, but I need to upgrade to captain ASAP to minimize time at the regionals.

ChrisInWI
02-02-2019, 11:50 AM
Flyguy,
Not sure how to answer the WO question. I see that flow as an incentive for a career civilian pilot more so than a military pilot. Other companies have pseudo flows (CPPs) but again, I personally was not incentivized by that. 1000hrs PIC time also doesn't seem to be a hard requirement at all the majors any longer. As close as you are to 1000hrs you would barely be off OE with a regional prior to getting up to 1000hrs plus the 100hrs recentcy with a 121 carrier.

Advice will come in all shapes and sizes, I can only identify for what worked for me. I chose a company where I wouldn't have to commute (or at least minimize the time I would have to commute), had good work rules and a solid training program. I wasn't in the market for the shiniest airplanes either as I wanted to get myself in shape for a job at the majors as soon as possible. QOL trumped all for me.

I have heard good things about Republic Sky West and Endeavor. Not as familiar with the AA WOs but I'm sure they all have their +/-s.

Phoenix21
02-02-2019, 01:19 PM
Chris, I appreciate the helpful info. What are your thoughts on a wholly owned as a primary option for their flow as a backup? Is it even worth my time to consider the flow, or should I just go for decent QOL such as Republic or Skywest? That being said, Republic would have to improve their class wait times before I’d try going there. I’m flexible with location, but I need to upgrade to captain ASAP to minimize time at the regionals.

Your hours are way low for a quick regional stint... you’re better off going to a place with better pay and QOL. You’ll need 1000hrs to upgrade. You might as well get paid as much as an FO as others get paid as a CA at places like Endeavor or Republic while you plug away over the next several years.

All three AA WO regionals have a baseline flow of 9+ years for new hires. Outside attrition not included.

BeatNavy
02-02-2019, 03:40 PM
Your hours are way low for a quick regional stint... youíre better off going to a place with better pay and QOL. Youíll need 1000hrs to upgrade. You might as well get paid as much as an FO as others get paid as a CA at places like Endeavor or Republic while you plug away over the next several years.

All three AA WO regionals have a baseline flow of 9+ years for new hires. Outside attrition not included.

His hours arenít that low for a mil guy. Especially as heís getting out in 2021, closer to peak hiring. Iíd guess itíll be a year or less at a regional.

Excargodog
02-02-2019, 04:32 PM
Chris, I appreciate the helpful info. What are your thoughts on a wholly owned as a primary option for their flow as a backup? .... Iím flexible with location, but I need to upgrade to captain ASAP to minimize time at the regionals.

Then go someplace that WILL ACTUALLY LET YOU GET SOME FLIGHT TIME AS A JUNIOR FO, which probably isnít a wholly owned with flow.

Go to someplace that will fly your butt off as an FO and not have you sitting reserve for 6-9 months flying 20-30 hours a month. And no, with your current TPIC you may not even have to make CA to be picked up by a major, they may well pick you up as an FO, but only if you are actually getting some hours.

Itíll take you six months from initial job offer to get in to training in many places (so you need to lead-turn your actual applications by six months from your availability) then three months to get through training (more if we keep having sim backups) and then if you only get 20 hours a month of actual flying (even if you get paid guarantee), if you screw up the process or the airline you get hired by you could easily be sitting with only 120 SIC hours a year after you get out. Donít be that guy.

Lead turn the application process and get in somewhere that you can start training ASAP after separation who then flies their FOs almost to the point of abuse. (Air Whiskey comes to mind).

Donít look at it as quality time, look at it as an overseas remote where - wonder if wonders - you can actually space-A home to your CONUS family for a few days three or four times a month. Fly 80 hours a month and by the time a year is up youíll have 750 hours and be totally competitive for a major in that time. And the year you donít waste is worth $300K or better because of getting to the major one year quicker.



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