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View Full Version : New Norwegian News


NEDude
01-16-2019, 08:57 AM
Announced this afternoon. Most short haul pilot bases in Spain, FCO short haul base, the SWF and PVD 737 bases all closed. Long haul pilot bases in FLL, BKK, and AMS closed as well. The company says most affected crew will be offered transfers to other bases, or to the 787 operation. There will be a reduction in 737 operations, but the 787 operation will continue to expand. No word on if the U.S. based pilots will have other opportunities. Cabin crew bases in JFK, LAX, and FLL are unaffected. This is pouring gasoline on the fire regarding the IAG rumors. It has long been speculated that these are changes requested by IAG as part of the purchase deal.


PDRit
01-16-2019, 10:24 AM
Announced this afternoon. Most short haul pilot bases in Spain, FCO short haul base, the SWF and PVD 737 bases all closed. Long haul pilot bases in FLL, BKK, and AMS closed as well. The company says most affected crew will be offered transfers to other bases, or to the 787 operation. There will be a reduction in 737 operations, but the 787 operation will continue to expand. No word on if the U.S. based pilots will have other opportunities. Cabin crew bases in JFK, LAX, and FLL are unaffected. This is pouring gasoline on the fire regarding the IAG rumors. It has long been speculated that these are changes requested by IAG as part of the purchase deal.

Great news. So all those contracted employees in the USA will now be looking for jobs. Let's see how that works for them.

NEDude
01-16-2019, 10:33 AM
Great news. So all those contracted employees in the USA will now be looking for jobs. Let's see how that works for them.

It will probably work as well as it did for the guys who went to Freedom Air and GoJets. In other words just fine. People who do the hiring either don't care, or have long forgotten about it.


PDRit
01-16-2019, 12:07 PM
It will probably work as well as it did for the guys who went to Freedom Air and GoJets. In other words just fine. People who do the hiring either don't care, or have long forgotten about it.

They wonít work at a legacy.

NEDude
01-16-2019, 12:44 PM
They wonít work at a legacy.

Based on past history, they will have no issues.

sailingfun
01-16-2019, 01:01 PM
Based on past history, they will have no issues.

It depends on the airline. Itís not going to be a plus for them so they will need a strong resume otherwise. Most who went that route probably donít have a real strong resume in the first place. I donít think you will see very many snapped up by the majors. They are going to have to do a few years at a regional.

captjns
01-16-2019, 01:05 PM
They won’t work at a legacy.

Funny... reminds me of a statement of a clueless adolescent.

captjns
01-16-2019, 01:10 PM
It depends on the airline. It’s not going to be a plus for them so they will need a strong resume otherwise. Most who went that route probably don’t have a real strong resume in the first place. I don’t think you will see very many snapped up by the majors. They are going to have to do a few years at a regional.

Wouldn’t bet the farm on your opinion sailingfun... Many of my colleagues, former expats, have been, to use your term “SNAPPED”, are with DAL, AA, SW, AK, UAL... the list, and start dates goes on.

Winston
01-16-2019, 02:43 PM
I donít care where they work, as long as their seeking new employment is a direct result of Norwegian winding down operations.

Packrat
01-16-2019, 03:08 PM
Got an app in my email today. He'll get interviewed and probably hired as a direct entry Captain.

zondaracer
01-16-2019, 03:48 PM
What are Norwegian's other pilot bases? Which ones will stay open?

ShyGuy
01-16-2019, 04:10 PM
Announced this afternoon. Most short haul pilot bases in Spain, FCO short haul base, the SWF and PVD 737 bases all closed. Long haul pilot bases in FLL, BKK, and AMS closed as well. The company says most affected crew will be offered transfers to other bases, or to the 787 operation. There will be a reduction in 737 operations, but the 787 operation will continue to expand. No word on if the U.S. based pilots will have other opportunities. Cabin crew bases in JFK, LAX, and FLL are unaffected. This is pouring gasoline on the fire regarding the IAG rumors. It has long been speculated that these are changes requested by IAG as part of the purchase deal.

"Norwegian says the news has already been shared with its employees and unions. Job transfers to bases in Oslo, Stockholm and Madrid have been offered, as well as opportunities on the airlineís Dreamliner fleet including at New York JFK. "


Sounds like the SWF and PVD crews may have an option at JFK?

sailingfun
01-16-2019, 04:22 PM
Wouldnít bet the farm on your opinion sailingfun... Many of my colleagues, former expats, have been, to use your term ďSNAPPEDĒ, are with DAL, AA, SW, AK, UAL... the list, and start dates goes on.

These are not expats. They are pilots working in the US. Keep in mind most airlines have pilots involved in the selection process. Delta uses many line pilots.

captjns
01-16-2019, 06:26 PM
These are not expats. They are pilots working in the US.

Negative. Regardless of their nominated base, they are “expats”. They are employed and compensated by a foreign entity. They have to obtain a validation, limited in time, on their FAA certificates.

The “Physical Presense Test”, used in determining excluded income earned abroad is clearly an issue for an expat working for a forien entity, who is U.S. based.

Under the physical presence test, a 12-month period can be any period of 12 consecutive months that includes 330 full days. If you qualify under the physical presence test for part of a year, it is important to carefully choose the 12 month period that will allow the maximum exclusion for that year.

This is a reason for many not taking the job with PVD SWF of FLL base. A validation is worthless any place other than the country of issue. The validation is valid for the carrier specific only. No on the other hand, a full EASA ATPL does have value if employment is sort for in countries where an FAA certificate is not accepted.

Keep in mind most airlines have pilots involved in the selection process. Delta uses many line pilots.

And your point? Are you suggesting that expats are are black balled from Delta? You are gravely mistaken.

NEDude
01-16-2019, 10:21 PM
"Norwegian says the news has already been shared with its employees and unions. Job transfers to bases in Oslo, Stockholm and Madrid have been offered, as well as opportunities on the airline’s Dreamliner fleet including at New York JFK. "


Sounds like the SWF and PVD crews may have an option at JFK?

JFK is only a cabin crew base, not a pilot base. There will be no U.S. based pilots as a result of this, not on the 787 or 737. JFK, LAX, and FLL will remain as cabin crew bases according to what I have heard and read. Word this morning is that the pilots have been told March 31 will be their last day. Apparently many for of the 787 crews based in FLL who came on an FAA license have never seen the inside of the airplane. Supposedly there have been all sorts of issues with getting an EASA validation and some of them have been sitting around, collecting a paycheck, for over a year. I am not sure if all U.S. based pilots are losing their jobs, or just the ones who do not have EU/EEA/CH citizenship and an EASA license. Apparently many who chose U.S. bases were European pilots who had dual US/EU citizenship, were married to Americans, or had a green card from another source. I did hear the FLL base chief was a Norwegian guy who is married to an American. Not sure if people like him will have the options to head to a European base. But all of the Americans are definitely out of a job on March 31.

sailingfun
01-17-2019, 05:36 AM
Negative. Regardless of their nominated base, they are ďexpatsĒ. They are employed and compensated by a foreign entity. They have to obtain a validation, limited in time, on their FAA certificates.

The ďPhysical Presense TestĒ, used in determining excluded income earned abroad is clearly an issue for an expat working for a forien entity, who is U.S. based.

Under the physical presence test, a 12-month period can be any period of 12 consecutive months that includes 330 full days. If you qualify under the physical presence test for part of a year, it is important to carefully choose the 12 month period that will allow the maximum exclusion for that year.

This is a reason for many not taking the job with PVD SWF of FLL base. A validation is worthless any place other than the country of issue. The validation is valid for the carrier specific only. No on the other hand, a full EASA ATPL does have value if employment is sort for in countries where an FAA certificate is not accepted.

And your point? Are you suggesting that expats are are black balled from Delta? You are gravely mistaken.

You keep lumping US pilots based in the US working for Norwegian with true expats who work for overseas operations. That is where you are mistaken. Delta likes expats. They bring a wealth of experience and knowledge to the airline. US based Norwegian pilots not so much!

captjns
01-17-2019, 06:50 AM
Delta likes expats. They bring a wealth of experience and knowledge to the airline. US based Norwegian pilots not so much!

............filler.......:rolleyes:

PDRit
01-17-2019, 12:06 PM
Based on past history, they will have no issues.

How many EAL scabs got through the filter to a legacy? The Norwegian pilots are looked upon the same way. Like it or not the word has been out for a long time and there are too many other candidates to hire that arenít from Norwegian.

They wonít be told they are not being hired because they are from Norwegian, they just wonít be hired.

Jetpowered
01-17-2019, 02:21 PM
How many EAL scabs got through the filter to a legacy? The Norwegian pilots are looked upon the same way. Like it or not the word has been out for a long time and there are too many other candidates to hire that arenít from Norwegian.

They wonít be told they are not being hired because they are from Norwegian, they just wonít be hired.

Lol........

ShyGuy
01-17-2019, 04:28 PM
Norwegian Pilots are not scabs. Unless there was a strike and a picket fence was crossed, no point in misusing the word scab.

OhSnapAF
01-17-2019, 10:11 PM
Norwegian Pilots are not scabs. Unless there was a strike and a picket fence was crossed, no point in misusing the word scab.

They aren't scabs by definition, but lets not downplay the detriment they have caused to the US airline industry. Thank goodness they failed on their own, even when despite ALPA and other professional organizations outwardly coming out against Norwegian operating in the U.S., the government allowed them to operate. Good riddance...

NEDude
01-17-2019, 11:19 PM
I will concede that perhaps for the next 2-4 years things may be difficult for them at a major. But the history shows that unless a person is an actual, honest to goodness, name on the "Jumpseat Protect List", scab, all will eventually be forgotten or forgiven. Even then there is a chance you could officially be forgiven as ALPA officially forgave the Continental scabs when ALPA realized they had a realistic chance of getting their money. Back in the early 2000s the internet message boards were alive with the rhetoric that the Freedom Air guys would end up on a list and never be able to get another job. Now barely anyone remembers what Freedom Air was, let alone remember that the guys were not supposed to get hired. Around 2005/2006, GoJet guys were the new bad guys, and the internet message boards were alive with the rhetoric that those guys will never get hired. Now, 13-14 years later, nobody cares whether someone was at GoJet.

Unless there is an economic downturn, or a 9/11 type catastrophic event, within then next 2-4 years most people will have forgotten about Norwegian and have moved on, and these guys will not have issues getting hired at majors/legacies.

sailingfun
01-18-2019, 04:24 AM
Norwegian Pilots are not scabs. Unless there was a strike and a picket fence was crossed, no point in misusing the word scab.

This is correct. The word scab loses meaning when itís misapplied.

PotatoChip
01-18-2019, 08:31 AM
They aren't scabs by definition, but lets not downplay the detriment they have caused to the US airline industry. Thank goodness they failed on their own, even when despite ALPA and other professional organizations outwardly coming out against Norwegian operating in the U.S., the government allowed them to operate. Good riddance...

I have seen near zero actual detriment. In fact, in the same years that Norwegian has operated in the US, I have only seen positive trends for US pilots....

OhSnapAF
01-18-2019, 09:30 AM
I have seen near zero actual detriment. In fact, in the same years that Norwegian has operated in the US, I have only seen positive trends for US pilots....

You don't think the current administration allowing them to operate the way they were, was a detriment to the airline industry?

Csy Mon
01-18-2019, 09:45 AM
You don't think the current administration allowing them to operate the way they were, was a detriment to the airline industry?

A downward Pressure on ticket prices?
Perhaps but they fly 787s nonstop from OSL to cities in the US, no direct competition there.
Yes, they tried 737 across the pond from NY, but sounds like a stupid idea to start with, not many pax wants to be stuck in a Fluf for 8 hours. :(

PotatoChip
01-18-2019, 10:33 AM
You don't think the current administration allowing them to operate the way they were, was a detriment to the airline industry?

Nope.
They tried it, it failed.
Next administration can reverse it if they would like.
I donít support OSM, but they didnít do anything illegal. And Iím glad the market forced them to fail.

rickair7777
01-19-2019, 05:42 AM
This is correct. The word scab loses meaning when itís misapplied.

x2. NAI not scabs.

rickair7777
01-19-2019, 05:44 AM
I will concede that perhaps for the next 2-4 years things may be difficult for them at a major. But the history shows that unless a person is an actual, honest to goodness, name on the "Jumpseat Protect List", scab, all will eventually be forgotten or forgiven. Even then there is a chance you could officially be forgiven as ALPA officially forgave the Continental scabs when ALPA realized they had a realistic chance of getting their money. Back in the early 2000s the internet message boards were alive with the rhetoric that the Freedom Air guys would end up on a list and never be able to get another job. Now barely anyone remembers what Freedom Air was, let alone remember that the guys were not supposed to get hired. Around 2005/2006, GoJet guys were the new bad guys, and the internet message boards were alive with the rhetoric that those guys will never get hired. Now, 13-14 years later, nobody cares whether someone was at GoJet.

Unless there is an economic downturn, or a 9/11 type catastrophic event, within then next 2-4 years most people will have forgotten about Norwegian and have moved on, and these guys will not have issues getting hired at majors/legacies.

There are still people out there affected by freedom or gojets who don't forget. Including me. Odds are low that you'll be in a position where you have to get through one of those people, but anything's possible. I have both lists, although I was only impacted by one of them.

I think NAI folks are less likely to have any issues because, because unlike the alter-ego union busters, they didn't directly impact any particular pilot group in a manner which can be directly linked back to them personally.

captjns
01-20-2019, 08:32 AM
They aren't scabs by definition, but lets not downplay the detriment they have caused to the US airline industry. Thank goodness they failed on their own, even when despite ALPA and other professional organizations outwardly coming out against Norwegian operating in the U.S., the government allowed them to operate. Good riddance...

Plesae provide proven data to support your claim such as, but not limited to... US carriers going bust... layoffs/furloughs from AA, DAL, UAL, etc.... wage concessions by US pilots.

Grumble
01-20-2019, 03:43 PM
Any one that went to NAI wasnít likely to get hired at a US Major to begin with. AMF.

captjns
01-20-2019, 08:59 PM
Any one that went to NAI wasn’t likely to get hired at a US Major to begin with. AMF.

Well... not necessarily true Grumble. There are late fifties and older expats who wanted to return to the US. They were not ready to retire. And of course, due to seniority, they’d probably never upgrade prior to reaching retirement. Other than limited ACMIs, NAI was a viable DEC for those not ready to hang up the goggles.

NEDude
01-21-2019, 03:46 AM
Plesae provide proven data to support your claim such as, but not limited to... US carriers going bust... layoffs/furloughs from AA, DAL, UAL, etc.... wage concessions by US pilots.

Wait, you actually want some evidence of those claims?! How dare you counter vitriolic rhetoric with a request for simple evidence of its truthfulness! :D

captjns
01-21-2019, 04:32 AM
Wait, you actually want some evidence of those claims?! How dare you counter vitriolic rhetoric with a request for simple evidence of its truthfulness! :D

Mea culpa:(

Sniper66
01-21-2019, 07:06 AM
Based on past history, they will have no issues.




You are funny
Itís alpaís fault of course

Can you enlighten us about the past

2StgTurbine
01-22-2019, 02:33 PM
Well... not necessarily true Grumble. There are late fifties and older expats who wanted to return to the US. They were not ready to retire. And of course, due to seniority, theyíd probably never upgrade prior to reaching retirement.

They would not need to upgrade. They would make more in the right seat of a legacy than the left seat at NAI.

captjns
01-22-2019, 06:25 PM
They would not need to upgrade. They would make more in the right seat of a legacy than the left seat at NAI.

You’re missing the point... After many years in seat 1L-W... would you want to downgrade? After 35 years in the industry, would you want to be number gazillion on the seniority list??? Would you want to sit reserve in NYC, ORD, of BOS in the winter in a crash pad? Its not always about $$$ 2Stg.

2StgTurbine
01-22-2019, 07:17 PM
Youíre missing the point... After many years in seat 1L-W... would you want to downgrade?

I think that is the hang up. Most can't take the hit to their ego. Most new hires today can be off reserve in a few months if they aren't too picky with bases or equipment.

NEDude
01-22-2019, 10:59 PM
You are funny
It’s alpa’s fault of course

Can you enlighten us about the past

....Sigh....I have, several times already.

Freedom Air and GoJet guys have had no issues getting hired. I know four former Freedom Air guys who had zero issues getting hired by legacy/major/major cargo airlines. Two are at FedEx, one at Delta and one is at Southwest. Freedom Air never was brought up in their interviews. I personally know a former GoJet guy at United, and have two friends of friends who are former GoJet guys, one is at UPS and the other is at American. Again, their association with GoJet never came up during their interview process. Overwhelmingly people have forgotten about FreedomAir and GoJet and why they are supposed to hate them.

There was a point in time where Southwest was the irreverent upstart in the industry. People who could not get real jobs went to Southwest. The industry fought against them for decades. Now they are one of the most desirable carriers to work for.

When UPS first started, their seniority list was filled with ex-cargo guys who could not land a job at a "real" airline. Their pay was terrible and it was seen as a dead end job. Now UPS is one of the most prized jobs in the industry.

Continental was filled with real, honest to goodness, on the "Jumpseat Protection List" ALPA scabs. When ALPA felt they could land the Continental pilot group, and secure a lot more money, ALPA officially forgave the scabs and welcomed them back into the fold with open arms.

When Virgin America started, it was fought against by the industry and all the unions. The pilots who went there were the guys who could not get hired at a legacy airline. They would be blacklisted and never get a real job. Now all those guys are ALPA members in good standing an flying for a legacy airline.

Do you need more examples? Okay, here is another: PeoplExpress was considered a bottom feeder airline. Pilots were paid worse and even had to help clean the cabin. You went to PeoplExpress because you could not find a job at any good airline. The guys who went there retired from Continental and United, or are the senior guys at United today.

The history shows quite clearly that unless you are an honest to goodness, legitimate scab, flying for a certain "bad" company will not make much of a difference down the road. And even if you are a real life, legitimate scab, there is a precedent for ALPA forgiving you and/or flying for a legacy airline. Let's not forget that legacy United also had a huge number of scabs as well.

bottoms up
01-23-2019, 10:52 AM
The history shows quite clearly that unless you are an honest to goodness, legitimate scab, flying for a certain "bad" company will not make much of a difference down the road. And even if you are a real life, legitimate scab, there is a precedent for ALPA forgiving you and/or flying for a legacy airline. Let's not forget that legacy United also had a huge number of scabs as well.

While you bay be correct in some of your assumption, youth is starting to take over the ranks of LECs in ALPA. Also there are some who directly witnessed firsthand the effects of scabs as their father/mother lost their job. There are others who have had to fly with such scabs and hear their cries and wormy excuse over the years and have turned a deaf ear. I am one! I am also very vocal in our LEC/MEC to try to limit the amount of people who would do nothing but turn their back to their fellow pilot for the all mighty dollar. There are still a highly proud bunch who have had their pensions stolen, upgrades delayed, and have been told lies over and over. We are not about to legitimize someoneís poor decision to help undersell our profession over a quick upgrade. You may cast all the stones you wish but the facts remain that there are still many who try to uphold this profession and leave it better for the next generation rather than to sell out to the lowest bidder. We donít always get it right but we try to improve time and time again.

bottoms up
01-23-2019, 10:56 AM
Youíre missing the point... After many years in seat 1L-W... would you want to downgrade? After 35 years in the industry, would you want to be number gazillion on the seniority list??? Would you want to sit reserve in NYC, ORD, of BOS in the winter in a crash pad? Its not always about $$$ 2Stg.

No sometimes itís about throwing someone a rope when they fall overboard so they donít drown. Isnít it?

Cujo665
01-23-2019, 04:45 PM
They wonít work at a legacy.

Why not? Theyíre exactly the ones legacy management wants. Donít care about unions, and when offered money for themselves in exchange for scope.... will say yes since it benefits themselves.

captjns
01-23-2019, 04:55 PM
No sometimes itís about throwing someone a rope when they fall overboard so they donít drown. Isnít it?

Not to be obtuse... but I donít understand your analogy.

captjns
01-23-2019, 04:59 PM
Why not? Theyíre exactly the ones legacy management wants. Donít care about unions, and when offered money for themselves in exchange for scope.... will say yes since it benefits themselves.

Is this an attestation, to which you have facts to back your statement, or are you seeking approval from the adults?

Smooth at FL450
01-24-2019, 07:55 AM
https://www.independent.ie/business/world/iag-wont-bid-for-norwegian-37745153.html


IAG wonít bid for Norwegian

Half wing
01-24-2019, 07:16 PM
Any one that went to NAI wasnít likely to get hired at a US Major to begin with. AMF.

Exactly, these guys are basically the bottom of the barrel. At my airline, pilots hire the pilots. Will they hire NAI pilots? Probably when their are no more half descent regional pilots left. I imagine most legacies will probably be taking the regional guys with DUIís and other criminal charges before hiring NAI pilots in big numbers. Keep in mind, we want to hire pilots other pilots will get along with. Willing to undercut the guy next to you doesnít really make friends.:rolleyes:

captjns
01-25-2019, 04:08 AM
Exactly, these guys are basically the bottom of the barrel. At my airline, pilots hire the pilots. Will they hire NAI pilots? Probably when their are no more half descent regional pilots left. I imagine most legacies will probably be taking the regional guys with DUI’s and other criminal charges before hiring NAI pilots in big numbers. Keep in mind, we want to hire pilots other pilots will get along with. Willing to undercut the guy next to you doesn’t really make friends.:rolleyes:

I have to agree with Half wing. His airline hired him... a chap who makes statements without merit or substantiation. His moniker shows “787”. US carrier... AA and UAL, as far as I know currently are the two carriers operating the jet. One cold bet that Half wing wouldn’t make such statements without knowing the process and hoops one goes through joining becoming an expat. Background, criminal checks, local and state and other law enforcement checks, let alone the dedication it takes to write 14 exams. I’m sure:rolleyes: his current airline’s pilot all discussed, deliberated, and by unanimous consent, said this is the guy we need!

Half wing
01-25-2019, 06:35 AM
Thank you for the laugh. Chap? How old are you? Anyway, glad to hear this cancer on the airline industry is getting ready to die. Donít worry, the pilot shortage is right around the corner. Iím sure NAI pilots will be hired elsewhere once there are no more qualified regional guys/gals to hire.;)

Packrat
01-25-2019, 07:53 AM
3 NAI interviews this week. 1st guy told his buddies and the resume floodgates opened.

captjns
01-25-2019, 08:39 AM
Thank you for the laugh. Chap? How old are you? Anyway, glad to hear this cancer on the airline industry is getting ready to die. Donít worry, the pilot shortage is right around the corner. Iím sure NAI pilots will be hired elsewhere once there are no more qualified regional guys/gals to hire.;)

How old am I... Letís say Iím older than my teeth but younger than my gums... I colleague I flew with, currently with NAI, is joining a US Legacy next month.

Grumble
01-25-2019, 05:58 PM
I have to agree with Half wing. His airline hired him... a chap who makes statements without merit or substantiation. His moniker shows “787”. US carrier... AA and UAL, as far as I know currently are the two carriers operating the jet. One cold bet that Half wing wouldn’t make such statements without knowing the process and hoops one goes through joining becoming an expat. Background, criminal checks, local and state and other law enforcement checks, let alone the dedication it takes to write 14 exams. I’m sure:rolleyes: his current airline’s pilot all discussed, deliberated, and by unanimous consent, said this is the guy we need!

All that work for substandard wages.

Half wing is not wrong, a friends of mine does recruiting and interview prep for all of the majors, including NAIs bastard child contract outfit. The pilots going there weren’t doing so because they had the world at their feet. An NAI captain doesn’t even make 1/2 of what a 787 FO makes at the US Carriers, all of whom are making money (Buh bye NAI, FOAD) and all of whom have it in their pay scales even if they’re not flying it. And there are more than just AA/UAL.

dera
01-25-2019, 09:36 PM
Every cloud has a silver lining - the US legacies can now say that paying peanuts to pilots does not make an airline profitable.
Takes the outlier out from the pattern bargaining.

captjns
01-26-2019, 01:39 AM
All that work for substandard wages.

Half wing is not wrong, a friends of mine does recruiting and interview prep for all of the majors, including NAIs bastard child contract outfit. The pilots going there werenít doing so because they had the world at their feet. An NAI captain doesnít even make 1/2 of what a 787 FO makes at the US Carriers, all of whom are making money (Buh bye NAI, FOAD) and all of whom have it in their pay scales even if theyíre not flying it. And there are more than just AA/UAL.

Wasnít opining about the younger stars starting out. Referenced older pilots who still had a short time before hanging up the goggles. Yes a few expats in their mid 40ís wanted to remain current until they joined carriers in the US. Not that thereís anything wrong with getting second choice in crew meals, but some would rather remain in the left seat for the remainder of their career.

PDRit
02-01-2019, 12:20 PM
Wasn’t opining about the younger stars starting out. Referenced older pilots who still had a short time before hanging up the goggles. Yes a few expats in their mid 40’s wanted to remain current until they joined carriers in the US. Not that there’s anything wrong with getting second choice in crew meals, but some would rather remain in the left seat for the remainder of their career.

You don’t have to go to a bottom feeder like NAI to get your first choice. At my company the individual pilot selects his or her desire for the type of meal they desire. But they all taste the same so I am not sure why it is a big deal. In fact why on earth would you base a huge financial benefit of the legacy vs the likes of NAI on a crew meal choice? That speaks more of the fragile ego of the individual that has to be called Captain. Suppose it is hard to take off the personalized license plates and all the “I am the Captain of the house” propaganda you have stored up over the years. I don’t care what seat I am in as long as my pay and days off are of a level that afford me the opportunity to drop off the grid a good portion of the month.

captjns
02-01-2019, 01:08 PM
I don’t care what seat I am in as long as my pay and days off are of a level that afford me the opportunity to drop off the grid a good portion of the month.

Mazel tov. Ad me'ah shanah.

Sniper66
02-03-2019, 09:43 PM
Mazel tov. Ad me'ah shanah.



You are full of ..... like always on these boards

Sniper66
02-03-2019, 09:47 PM
How old am I... Letís say Iím older than my teeth but younger than my gums... I colleague I flew with, currently with NAI, is joining a US Legacy next month.



I highly doubt that
The recruiters know better at my legacy
They will not interview them because of the environment they will bring on the flight deck as new hires. A captain here can request a change of the first officer as they please and management knows they will

stabapch
02-04-2019, 04:31 AM
I highly doubt that
The recruiters know better at my legacy
They will not interview them because of the environment they will bring on the flight deck as new hires. A captain here can request a change of the first officer as they please and management knows they will

^^^ this guy clearly doesnít know wtf heís talking about. Another wannabe hiring manager with Napoleon complex toward foreign carriers.

captjns
02-04-2019, 02:30 PM
I highly doubt that
The recruiters know better at my legacy
They will not interview them because of the environment they will bring on the flight deck as new hires. A captain here can request a change of the first officer as they please and management knows they will

And the name of the little two fleet prop 121 carrier do you fly for?:rolleyes:

Give it a rest Sniper... just like your imbecilic claims “US carriers will not hiring expats!!! And yes NAI pilots... as when Mythbusters disprove facts... Your busted sport.;)

captjns
02-04-2019, 02:36 PM
You are full of ..... like always on these boards

................................

B757
02-04-2019, 03:18 PM
And the name of the little two fleet prop 121 carrier do you fly for?:rolleyes:

Give it a rest Sniper... just like your imbecilic claims ďUS carriers will not hiring expats!!! And yes NAI pilots... as when Mythbusters disprove facts... Your busted sport.;)..I agree..After 3 decades in aviation, on 3 different continents, Iīve got friends and colleaques working for numerous airlines, including EK, NAI and most of the US-carriers..I can confirm that the US-carriers are hiring expats..Fact..

Fly safe,
B757

captjns
02-04-2019, 04:13 PM
You are full of ..... like always on these boards

No no no... you filthy expat.... You will never be hired by a US Legacy! Paradigm shift????

iflysky
02-05-2019, 05:41 AM
..I agree..After 3 decades in aviation, on 3 different continents, Iīve got friends and colleaques working for numerous airlines, including EK, NAI and most of the US-carriers..I can confirm that the US-carriers are hiring expats..Fact..

Fly safe,
B757

Correct! Iíve spent close to 10 years abroad flying in the M.E. and Japan. Currently, flying a widebody for an U.S. legacy airline.

Sniper66
02-06-2019, 11:48 AM
And the name of the little two fleet prop 121 carrier do you fly for?:rolleyes:

Give it a rest Sniper... just like your imbecilic claims “US carriers will not hiring expats!!! And yes NAI pilots... as when Mythbusters disprove facts... Your busted sport.;)




Tell us your friends name from NAI that got hired On DL AMR or UAL
and I will tell you which of the 3 legacies I Fly for .
BTW the company I fly for only hired one yes one from EK over the last 7 years (upper management relative) and none from NAI
Facts only

Packrat
02-06-2019, 03:24 PM
I'm hiring two, maybe three NAI guys.

captjns
02-06-2019, 03:44 PM
I'm hiring two, maybe three NAI guys.

Good for you. Iíll bet theyíre good guys too.

Joachim
02-07-2019, 02:42 AM
Mazel tov. Ad me'ah shanah.

Are you Israeli?

captjns
02-07-2019, 03:39 AM
Are you Israeli?
Lo..............

Andy
02-08-2019, 03:30 AM
I'm hiring two, maybe three NAI guys.

Yes, but you're Horizon Air. Not exactly in the same category as what's being discussed.

Andy
02-08-2019, 03:42 AM
A downward Pressure on ticket prices?
Perhaps but they fly 787s nonstop from OSL to cities in the US, no direct competition there.
Yes, they tried 737 across the pond from NY, but sounds like a stupid idea to start with, not many pax wants to be stuck in a Fluf for 8 hours. :(

Norwegian has had a definite negative impact on TATL ticket pricing. They are selling their tickets at well below cost, in spite of load factors greater than 80%.
They have more available seats between London and the NYC area than British Airways.
Passengers don't care that they're in a guppy TATL; Norwegian's loads prove that. All they care about is low ticket prices.

I cannot believe that you would think that Norwegian doesn't negatively impact other airlines. They're filling their planes but still selling their tickets at a price point where they're losing money on every single passenger. That forces other carriers to lower their ticket prices.

Because of Norwegian, my bonus is smaller this year. Do I want to see them go out of business? Yes. Thankfully, that should happen when this rights issuance goes poorly.

Andy
02-08-2019, 03:46 AM
Plesae provide proven data to support your claim such as, but not limited to... US carriers going bust... layoffs/furloughs from AA, DAL, UAL, etc.... wage concessions by US pilots.

Norwegian's ticket pricing WELL BELOW their cost has caused US carriers to lower their ticket prices. The impact is that US airlines are less profitable due to the existence of Norwegian.

The direct impact to me is that because my airline was less profitable in 2018 due to Norwegian, my bonus check is smaller.

I assume you're just playing dumb on this issue, as it's very obvious that Norwegian's ticket pricing is depressing other carriers' yields.

stabapch
02-08-2019, 06:59 AM
Norwegian's ticket pricing WELL BELOW their cost has caused US carriers to lower their ticket prices. The impact is that US airlines are less profitable due to the existence of Norwegian.

The direct impact to me is that because my airline was less profitable in 2018 due to Norwegian, my bonus check is smaller.

I assume you're just playing dumb on this issue, as it's very obvious that Norwegian's ticket pricing is depressing other carriers' yields.

If I was 25 again and I could land a job that would award me a 787 type with pay that satisfies my standards of living I wouldnít think twice about accepting it. I personally could care less about yours or anyone elseís bonus check. Sorry.

MySaabStory
02-08-2019, 07:17 AM
I would say working for Norwegian is on par with having a DUI when it comes to getting on with a legacy in the US.

captjns
02-08-2019, 07:57 AM
Norwegian has had a definite negative impact on TATL ticket pricing.

Documentation from a reliable source to cooborate youy statement.

They are selling their tickets at well below cost, in spite of load factors greater than 80%.

Do you object when your airline lowers fares to drive out the competition?

They have more available seats between London and the NYC area than British Airways.

OK Andy... alternative facts are fun... at times. But as the saying goes... Facts are facts...

NAI - KJFK - EGKK 3 nonstop flights (random check).
BA - KJFK - EGLL & EGKK combined - 15 non flights, also random check.

There are 30 nonstop flights to London (EGLL and EGKK)
DAL - 9. UAL 5. AA 16. Not to mention additional flights with transfers too.

Then there are a bunch of TATL flights offered by BA and VA, which is a JV with DAL.

NAI, also, offers additional options to EGKK with transfers.

Passengers don't care that they're in a guppy TATL; Norwegian's loads prove that. All they care about is low ticket prices.

An economy seat in any Boeing product be it a 757, also a narrow body or 777, 787, 744 is crappy at best to say the least. Its the overall service. Foreign carriers outshine US carriers when it come to overall service. I can see why the consumer is going to purchase a product that provides the best bang for the buck.

I cannot believe that you would think that Norwegian doesn't negatively impact other airlines.

United Airlines financial report doesn’t agree with you.

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/united-airlines-reports-full-year-and-fourth-quarter-2018-performance-300778886.html

Delta Airlines financial report doesn’t agree with you either.

https://news.delta.com/delta-air-lines-announces-2018-september-quarter-profit

Even Southwest Airlines says:

Southwest Airlines Reports Fourth Quarter And Annual Profit; 46th Consecutive Year Of Profitability.

Ask management the reason for, as you imparted, under performance as compared to the local competitor?

They're filling their planes but still selling their tickets at a price point where they're losing money on every single passenger. That forces other carriers to lower their ticket prices.

Nothing to see here... US carrier do the same to their competition to eradicate competitor invading their territory.

Because of Norwegian, my bonus is smaller this year. Do I want to see them go out of business? Yes. Thankfully, that should happen when this rights issuance goes poorly.

Don’t blame the competition... blame your management, given stated robust performance in 2018.

Packrat
02-08-2019, 10:29 AM
Are you Israeli?

captjns Israeli?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Packrat
02-08-2019, 10:31 AM
Yes, but you're Horizon Air. Not exactly in the same category as what's being discussed.

Again....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You guys are cracking me up this morning. Now I've got to call IT to get the soda off the computer screen.

captjns
02-08-2019, 10:57 AM
Again....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You guys are cracking me up this morning. Now I've got to call IT to get the soda off the computer screen.

Anternate fact... Youíre Horizonís newly appointed D/O:eek:.

Packrat
02-08-2019, 11:18 AM
Anternate fact... Youíre Horizonís newly appointed D/O:eek:.

I KNEW the planes outside the office looked different!

WHACKMASTER
02-09-2019, 11:29 PM
If I was 25 again and I could land a job that would award me a 787 type with pay that satisfies my standards of living I wouldnít think twice about accepting it. I personally could care less about yours or anyone elseís bonus check. Sorry.

Lovely scab mentality.

captjns
02-10-2019, 06:02 AM
Lovely scab mentality.

Explain “scab mentality” when nobody’s striking... no picket line being crossed. Being a SW nee Air Tran chap the following does not apply his to you...

But... it appears, for the current period, nobody’s livelyhood is in jeopardy. Although, one should be wary of outsourcing in the name of codesharing. Aren’t JVs by US with foreign carriers more of a threat to one’s livelihood than NAIs alleged US invasion?

Big E 757
02-10-2019, 06:33 AM
No no no... you filthy expat.... You will never be hired by a US Legacy! Paradigm shift????

I think you guys are talking past each other....when the guys on here say no one at NAI will get hired at a legacy, I think most are talking about the guys who went to OJM (?) aviation. The contractor in FLL hiring 787 pilots for NAI. I donít think they are expats. OJM was paying 787 Captains around $100 an hour. Those are the guys Andy et.al. are referring to.

No one is upset about the guys who went to China or the UAE to fly when they were furloughed, and at the time, Emirates and Etihad were paying pretty well. Expats in general are free to fly for whomever they want to and as you know, China is paying top dollar for pilots.

The guys who took a job at OJM in FLL for peanuts, those guys, it feels to most of us, were willing to take a job paying multiples less than industry average, just to fly a 787, and in the process, had the potential to hurt the US industry. It feels like they were trying to cut in line. Luckily, NAI proved that low prices can still cause a multi billion dollar loss.

Iím with the other guys. I hope they learn their lesson about taking a job with a scumbag contractor that has garbage pay rates. Itís also true though, that if we are going to get angry at them for agreeing to work for lower wages, we also have to be angry with the ULCCís like spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue.
The difference is that those guys/girls were fighting for, and recently achieved much better rates so the disparity in pay isnít that great anymore.

There is a big difference between an expat Pilot, and a guy working for OJM, in my opinion.

Have a great day, everyone.

dera
02-10-2019, 03:39 PM
But... it appears, for the current period, nobodyís livelyhood is in jeopardy. Although, one should be wary of outsourcing in the name of codesharing. Arenít JVs by US with foreign carriers more of a threat to oneís livelihood than NAIs alleged US invasion?

The only ones whose livelihood is in jeopardy, are the NAI pilots.
At the same time, AA increases their JV ops with different Asian carriers. But obviously that's just fine... People here are so short sighted.

captjns
02-10-2019, 04:48 PM
The only ones whose livelihood is in jeopardy, are the NAI pilots.
At the same time, AA increases their JV ops with different Asian carriers. But obviously that's just fine... People here are so short sighted.

True they’ll be a diaspora from NAI... However the expat, as always, survives... whether returning to their home countries or searching for a new adventure.

Andy
02-11-2019, 03:24 AM
Documentation from a reliable source to cooborate youy statement.

So now you're going to move the goalposts. No surprise there.

You asked a question, I answered it. As for the airline articles you quoted, provide a quotation where it says Norwegian wasn't a negative impact on their profitability. You know, reliable source to corroborate (or even cooberate) your statements.

I find it humorous that you would think that a company in a commodity business which is selling its product below cost would not impact other companies in the same commodity business.

Andy
02-11-2019, 03:35 AM
Again....

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

You guys are cracking me up this morning. Now I've got to call IT to get the soda off the computer screen.

I see that went over your cranium case. Horizon's interchangeable with Alaska.

NEDude
02-11-2019, 05:53 AM
Very few of the guys who flew the 787 for Norwegian in FLL would be applying for jobs with U.S. legacy airlines. Most of the Americans were guys in their late 50s or early 60s who had retired from one of the ME3 and were just looking to make a little bit more money before hanging it up for good. Several are European pilots who somehow had a green card or dual citizenship. I believe the base captain for FLL was a retired SAS captain from Norway with dual US citizenship, and there were several retired KLM captains in the mix. There were a few younger American guys who may try for a U.S. legacy in the future, but very few, perhaps 10-15 at most. Certainly not enough for anyone to get bent out of shape over.

ShyGuy
02-11-2019, 07:51 AM
I think you guys are talking past each other....when the guys on here say no one at NAI will get hired at a legacy, I think most are talking about the guys who went to OJM (?) aviation. The contractor in FLL hiring 787 pilots for NAI. I donít think they are expats. OJM was paying 787 Captains around $100 an hour. Those are the guys Andy et.al. are referring to.

No one is upset about the guys who went to China or the UAE to fly when they were furloughed, and at the time, Emirates and Etihad were paying pretty well. Expats in general are free to fly for whomever they want to and as you know, China is paying top dollar for pilots.

The guys who took a job at OJM in FLL for peanuts, those guys, it feels to most of us, were willing to take a job paying multiples less than industry average, just to fly a 787, and in the process, had the potential to hurt the US industry. It feels like they were trying to cut in line. Luckily, NAI proved that low prices can still cause a multi billion dollar loss.

Iím with the other guys. I hope they learn their lesson about taking a job with a scumbag contractor that has garbage pay rates. Itís also true though, that if we are going to get angry at them for agreeing to work for lower wages, we also have to be angry with the ULCCís like spirit, Frontier, and JetBlue.
The difference is that those guys/girls were fighting for, and recently achieved much better rates so the disparity in pay isnít that great anymore.

There is a big difference between an expat Pilot, and a guy working for OJM, in my opinion.

Have a great day, everyone.

They were trying to cut in line? What is this line you speak of? A line argument works if everyone who applies is called to interview and you just have to wait your turn. That is not the case at the big 3.

captjns
02-11-2019, 10:33 AM
Very few of the guys who flew the 787 for Norwegian in FLL would be applying for jobs with U.S. legacy airlines. Most of the Americans were guys in their late 50s or early 60s who had retired from one of the ME3 and were just looking to make a little bit more money before hanging it up for good. Several are European pilots who somehow had a green card or dual citizenship. I believe the base captain for FLL was a retired SAS captain from Norway with dual US citizenship, and there were several retired KLM captains in the mix. There were a few younger American guys who may try for a U.S. legacy in the future, but very few, perhaps 10-15 at most. Certainly not enough for anyone to get bent out of shape over.

A few colleagues, my age, that worked at the same carriers overseas were ready to come back to the U.S. but not ready to hang up the goggles. Perfect alternative to finish out their careers. It was more about flying, free travel to Europe, than the money. One or two Iím in contact with took a contract overseas.... again.

captjns
02-11-2019, 10:40 AM
So now you're going to move the goalposts. No surprise there.

You asked a question, I answered it. As for the airline articles you quoted, provide a quotation where it says Norwegian wasn't a negative impact on their profitability. You know, reliable source to corroborate (or even cooberate) your statements.

I find it humorous that you would think that a company in a commodity business which is selling its product below cost would not impact other companies in the same commodity business.

Donít know Andy, but your statement about NAI having more daily flight to the UK than everyone else is wee bit off... 3 for NAI versus 30 of AA, DAL, UAL combined... So how do you figure?

Statement that US carriers are hurting financially? Documentation provided states otherwise.

Packrat
02-11-2019, 01:53 PM
I see that went over your cranium case. Horizon's interchangeable with Alaska.

Those jets look different too! Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

Packrat
02-11-2019, 01:54 PM
They were trying to cut in line? What is this line you speak of? A line argument works if everyone who applies is called to interview and you just have to wait your turn. That is not the case at the big 3.

Its actually not the case at any airline. Well put.

PilotGR
02-11-2019, 06:04 PM
Just read Flying the Line volumes 1&2...

Any pilot that accepts a position at NAI ****es over the guys that fought for our career decades ago...They are selfish brats..that is very scab like behavior..

Packrat
02-12-2019, 08:24 AM
..that is very scab like behavior..

There is no such thing. There are scabs, those who cross picket lines. I would have thought you would at least glean that knowledge from the Flying the Line Books.

Don't demean the definition of the name by misapplying it.

captjns
02-12-2019, 08:30 AM
There is no such thing. There are scabs, those who cross picket lines. I would have thought you would at least glean that knowledge from the Flying the Line Books.

Don't demean the definition of the name by misapplying it.

Some cluless millennials, seeking approval from the adults, throw the term “scab” around the same way they throw their multi colored sunglasses on the glare shield.

Andy
02-12-2019, 09:47 AM
Donít know Andy, but your statement about NAI having more daily flight to the UK than everyone else is wee bit off... 3 for NAI versus 30 of AA, DAL, UAL combined... So how do you figure?

Statement that US carriers are hurting financially? Documentation provided states otherwise.

OK, you don't don't understand how commodity pricing works. I assume you don't bother looking at gasoline (another commodity) prices at different gas stations when you fill up.

Andy
02-12-2019, 09:54 AM
Donít know Andy, but your statement about NAI having more daily flight to the UK than everyone else is wee bit off... 3 for NAI versus 30 of AA, DAL, UAL combined... So how do you figure?

Statement that US carriers are hurting financially? Documentation provided states otherwise.

Dude, reread. I clearly stated more seats between London and NYC than British Airways (or any non-US carrier, for that matter - which I did not state).

Here's an article confirming it: https://thepointsguy.com/news/norwegian-tops-ba-transatlantic/

How many daily flights Norwegian does today, with them paring back their schedules, I don't know. They're almost dead anyway; if their secondary offering goes poorly, they'll blow through their bond covenants at the end of March.

Andy
02-12-2019, 09:56 AM
Those jets look different too! Welcome to the Twilight Zone.

Have you already hit 65 and now at a frac?

Packrat
02-12-2019, 12:15 PM
Have you already hit 65 and now at a frac?

Not quite yet.

Sniper66
02-12-2019, 05:59 PM
Dude, reread. I clearly stated more seats between London and NYC than British Airways (or any non-US carrier, for that matter - which I did not state).

Here's an article confirming it: https://thepointsguy.com/news/norwegian-tops-ba-transatlantic/

How many daily flights Norwegian does today, with them paring back their schedules, I don't know. They're almost dead anyway; if their secondary offering goes poorly, they'll blow through their bond covenants at the end of March.





Donít bother anymore
You will get nowhere with the cheerleaders
Waste of time

BMEP100
02-13-2019, 05:23 AM
How many EAL scabs got through the filter to a legacy? The Norwegian pilots are looked upon the same way.....



Only by you and a handful of other self important narcicsts.

Packrat
02-13-2019, 06:03 AM
How many EAL scabs got through the filter to a legacy? The Norwegian pilots are looked upon the same way.

Norweigan pilots didn't cross a picket line. Crossing picket lines is scabbing. Please don't water down the term by misapplying it.

sailingfun
02-13-2019, 06:40 AM
Norweigan pilots didn't cross a picket line. Crossing picket lines is scabbing. Please don't water down the term by misapplying it.

It seems to be the young guys who constantly want to apply the scab term to everything they donít like. The term scab is a very serious issue. Using it for anything you donít like diminishes its meaning. No pilot flying for Norwegian is scabbing. Keep the term where it belongs. The only scabs in the US in the last 15 years were 2 guys during the spirit strike.

sailingfun
02-13-2019, 06:41 AM
Norwegian just announces they are dropping the US to Caribbean routes to cut costs.