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Chimpy
01-18-2019, 12:27 PM
Be safe out there!



https://news3lv.com/news/local/southwest-flight-from-las-vegas-slides-off-runway-after-landing-in-omaha


deus ex machina
01-18-2019, 12:51 PM
Again?? What are the chances?

Setopbug
01-18-2019, 01:05 PM
Perhaps they'll become known like Delta, not for a windcheck, but for an EMAS check.


WHACKMASTER
01-18-2019, 02:17 PM
But, but,but......thereís no problem with rushing at SWA. We swear! :rolleyes:

Slaphappy
01-18-2019, 02:56 PM
If any airline had 1/4 of the incidents that SWA has because of their culture they would have the FAA break up their airline from the inside out.

ICUROOK
01-18-2019, 04:16 PM
Any shortcuts out there?

Aviatorr
01-18-2019, 04:41 PM
And.......another one

qball
01-18-2019, 05:07 PM
Headline says ďslid off runwayĒ. Text says ďslid on to a runway overrun while taxiing to terminalĒ. Which was it?

rickair7777
01-18-2019, 05:09 PM
"slid onto a runway overrun area after landing and while taxiing to the terminal"

Was it an overrun or a taxi issue?

viper548
01-18-2019, 07:17 PM
The photo in the USA Today article appears to have approach lights under the left wing.

Skyward
01-18-2019, 07:38 PM
Headline says “slid off runway”. Text says “slid on to a runway overrun while taxiing to terminal”. Which was it?

If the media doesn’t know, they’ll just make it up.

The flaps are fully retracted in the photo. Based on that, I say the After Landing checklist was aready completed (or being completed) and they were taxing. Maybe slid while turning???

If they were landing Southeast, it’s possible to cross the end of multiple runways taxing to the gate...

pangolin
01-18-2019, 08:58 PM
Witnesses reported s turns on the runway after hitting black ice.

If the media doesnít know, theyíll just make it up.

The flaps are fully retracted in the photo. Based on that, I say the After Landing checklist was aready completed (or being completed) and they were taxing. Maybe slid while turning???

If they were landing Southeast, itís possible to cross the end of multiple runways taxing to the gate...

Rama
01-18-2019, 08:59 PM
Most journalists couldn't tell the difference between a taxiway and a runway. Once one person reports it, the rest just parrot what was said. Sure looks like an incident during taxi.

Al Czervik
01-19-2019, 04:52 AM
Most journalists couldn't tell the difference between a taxiway and a runway. Once one person reports it, the rest just parrot what was said. Sure looks like an incident during taxi.

Dude, it’s called a tarmac.

Baradium
01-19-2019, 05:07 AM
If the media doesnít know, theyíll just make it up.

The flaps are fully retracted in the photo. Based on that, I say the After Landing checklist was aready completed (or being completed) and they were taxing. Maybe slid while turning???

If they were landing Southeast, itís possible to cross the end of multiple runways taxing to the gate...

Unless they retract the flaps during landing roll out... they retracted them afterwards.

Incident: Southwest B738 at Omaha on Jan 18th 2019, overran runway on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4c30abc4&opt=0)

Smooth at FL450
01-19-2019, 06:47 AM
Unless they retract the flaps during landing roll out... they retracted them afterwards.

Incident: Southwest B738 at Omaha on Jan 18th 2019, overran runway on landing (http://avherald.com/h?article=4c30abc4&opt=0)


Flaps are not retracted until clearing the runway.

DENpilot
01-19-2019, 07:33 AM
Perhaps they'll become known like Delta, not for a windcheck, but for an EMAS check.

FAA is officially renaming EMAS to SWAMAS.

Galaxy5
01-19-2019, 08:13 AM
Dude, itís called a tarmac.

Nails. On. A. Chalkboard.

at6d
01-19-2019, 08:24 AM
I once landed at Goose Bay for a fuel stop in January. After exiting the runway, taxiing became nearly impossible because of ice.

Once parked, we watched as a Falcon 900 crawled past us and sailed down the ramp with wheels locked up. They went at least 100 yards, luckily straight ahead and in the clear.

Local news reports in OMA reported many roads were iced over...

Fly10half
01-19-2019, 08:33 AM
Flaps are not retracted until clearing the runway.

Looks like they cleared the runway.

ULLI
01-19-2019, 11:10 AM
Be careful out there guy


Officials: United Airlines plane slides off runway at O'Hare airport due to snow storm - Story | WFLD (http://www.fox32chicago.com/news/local/officials-united-airlines-plane-skids-off-runway-at-o-hare-airport-due-to-snow-storm)

at6d
01-19-2019, 02:08 PM
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/local-las-vegas/delta-plane-from-las-vegas-slides-off-cincinnati-runway-1572820/

Opakapaka
01-19-2019, 06:27 PM
FAA is officially renaming EMAS to SWAMAS.
Youíre an idiot lonely boy

qball
01-19-2019, 06:34 PM
For you 737 guys. Seems like often as not when a plane goes off itís a 737. Is it hard to handle in slippery conditions? Or is it just the odds because of the sheer number of 73 operations.
3 in the past week. DAL, SWA, UAL...all were 737.

jcountry
01-19-2019, 08:01 PM
I find it hard to have sympathy for SWA. Every time I see something like this, I think ďthey were cowboying it up.Ē

Maybe thatís not fair..... But after all the times Iíve seen them taxiing around at 60 knots and doing crazy ass stuff to make an approach work out....... Itís what I think.

This line of work has no place for fools. That silly ass cowboy stuff needs to stop-like at least a couple decades ago.

Iím sorry, but I just canít overlook or excuse that kind of crap. Accidents happen. But accidents arenít really accidents for those who tempt fate so often.

And once youíve done this work long enough, you come to realize how little of it really comes down to ďluck.Ē

WHACKMASTER
01-19-2019, 09:23 PM
Youíre an idiot lonely boy

Why? I thought that was very funny and appropriate. In fact, weíre on day two of three and both the FO and I have been incorporating SWAMAS into our approach briefings for comedic effect this trip because quite frankly the rate at which we run off of pavement is getting to be comical.

WHACKMASTER
01-19-2019, 09:31 PM
I find it hard to have sympathy for SWA. Every time I see something like this, I think ďthey were cowboying it up.Ē

Maybe thatís not fair..... But after all the times Iíve seen them taxiing around at 60 knots and doing crazy ass stuff to make an approach work out....... Itís what I think.

This line of work has no place for fools. That silly ass cowboy stuff needs to stop-like at least a couple decades ago.

Iím sorry, but I just canít overlook or excuse that kind of crap. Accidents happen. But accidents arenít really accidents for those who tempt fate so often.

And once youíve done this work long enough, you come to realize how little of it really comes down to ďluck.Ē

Nope. Youíre pretty much spot on.

Burton78
01-19-2019, 09:50 PM
Nope. Youíre pretty much spot on.

Yawn. These threads are so predictable and contributed to by the most predictable of people. Never mind the fact that there's been a rash of 737s departing controlled surfaces the last couple weeks ranging from carriers to include United, Delta, Westjet, SWA, etc.

Let the hate flow though.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CmiHRxDUkAE85HP.jpg

Skyward
01-19-2019, 10:21 PM
Nope. Youíre pretty much spot on.

As a SWA FO, I disagree. I donít ever fly with any of the cowboys you guys like to talk about.

at6d
01-19-2019, 11:16 PM
As a SWA FO, I disagree. I donít ever fly with any of the cowboys you guys like to talk about.

Agreed.

Ah dang forgot to go bash Delta.

Bluesideup1
01-20-2019, 12:20 AM
As a SWA FO, I disagree. I donít ever fly with any of the cowboys you guys like to talk about.

Don't worry it is just whack. He is still sad that Value Jet is gone and was adsorbed by the dark side. Never mind that two other carriers did the same thing it is all about SW and being a cowboy even though that hasn't been the case in over 10 years.

I also can't remember how many people Value Jet killed by cowboying it up compared to SW. Oh, that's right about 100 times more people from an operator that was about 1/20th the size SW is now.

domino
01-20-2019, 12:37 AM
"slid onto a runway overrun area after landing and while taxiing to the terminal"

Was it an overrun or a taxi issue?

Neither. It was Pilot Error

Rahlifer
01-20-2019, 03:21 AM
Don't worry it is just whack. He is still sad that Value Jet is gone and was adsorbed by the dark side. Never mind that two other carriers did the same thing it is all about SW and being a cowboy even though that hasn't been the case in over 10 years.

I also can't remember how many people Value Jet killed by cowboying it up compared to SW. Oh, that's right about 100 times more people from an operator that was about 1/20th the size SW is now.

As much as I like reading a good bashfest, how in the world do you consider the Valujet crash an example of ďcowboyĒ piloting? That flight was brought down by intentionally mislabeled hazmat that ignighted in the cargo hold.

WHACKMASTER
01-20-2019, 06:55 AM
As a SWA FO, I disagree. I donít ever fly with any of the cowboys you guys like to talk about.

And yet one airline in particular seems to make a continual habit of pavement excursions. In this instance apparently a check airman giving an FO IOE.

WHACKMASTER
01-20-2019, 07:00 AM
Anybody denying that SWA doesnít have a problem with running off taxiways and runways has their head in the sand. Letís not even talk about all the ground equipment to aircraft contact that happens all the time. Oh, then there was that light pole on the Denver ramp that lost the battle with a 737 wingtip.

OOfff
01-20-2019, 07:03 AM
Anybody denying that SWA doesnít have a problem with running off taxiways and runways has their head in the sand.

Where are the comparative stats on paved surface excursions by airline? Post Ďem up.

mainlineAF
01-20-2019, 07:03 AM
I find it hard to have sympathy for SWA. Every time I see something like this, I think ďthey were cowboying it up.Ē



Maybe thatís not fair..... But after all the times Iíve seen them taxiing around at 60 knots and doing crazy ass stuff to make an approach work out....... Itís what I think.



This line of work has no place for fools. That silly ass cowboy stuff needs to stop-like at least a couple decades ago.



Iím sorry, but I just canít overlook or excuse that kind of crap. Accidents happen. But accidents arenít really accidents for those who tempt fate so often.



And once youíve done this work long enough, you come to realize how little of it really comes down to ďluck.Ē



Are you a controller? How do you know swa is doing ďcrazy stuffĒ to make approaches work out?

WHACKMASTER
01-20-2019, 07:07 AM
Where are the comparative stats on paved surface excursions by airline? Post Ďem up.

Now youíre just embarrassing yourself. Seriously?!

OOfff
01-20-2019, 07:08 AM
Now youíre just embarrassing yourself. Seriously?!

You made the claim. Support it.

WHACKMASTER
01-20-2019, 07:10 AM
You made the claim. Support it.

Itís glaringly obvious isnít it?! Itís become a running joke. Most things that are running jokes are so because of the truth behind them.

Either youíre dense or a troll.

OOfff
01-20-2019, 07:12 AM
Itís glaringly obvious isnít it?! Itís become a running joke. Most things that are running jokes are so because of the truth behind them.

Either youíre dense or a troll.

Considering that two other airlines had excursions this week, no, it isnít ďobvious.Ē Just post up the statistics. How hard is that?

WHACKMASTER
01-20-2019, 07:13 AM
Considering that two other airlines had excursions this week, no, it isnít ďobvious.Ē Just post up the statistics. How hard is that?

You really are making a fool of yourself.

Rolf
01-20-2019, 07:14 AM
ďEither youíre dense or a troll.Ē
You guys can always pick each other out. Uncanny.

OOfff
01-20-2019, 07:15 AM
You really are making a fool of yourself.

Again, youíre the one making claims about the frequency of pavement excursions without any sort of statistics to back it up

e6bpilot
01-20-2019, 07:35 AM
You really are making a fool of yourself.



I try to stay out of these baseless, ridiculous threads.
As an active member of our pilot group, I highly recommend you knock it off, Whack.
First, you are opening yourself up to disciplinary action which will waste my dues money. See the social media policy. Second, you continue to bite the hand that feeds you by making baseless and ridiculous statements on a public forum. Third, you are perpetuating the AirTran stereotype that so many of your awesome former Tran guys have worked so hard to dispel.
For the record, I have flown with exactly one ďcowboyĒ in almost 5 years here. Thatís probably out of around 400 captains. So that makes a total of .25 percent. My safety circle gets real tight in tough conditions, and I consider myself a fairly conservative pilot with a flair for common sense.
Stuff happens. Another poster has asked you to back up your claims with facts and your response is to throw out more baseless insults.

jcountry
01-20-2019, 08:15 AM
As a SWA FO, I disagree. I donít ever fly with any of the cowboys you guys like to talk about.
Letís just say we have different perspectives....

I encourage you to look at the gps groundspeed on a taxiway, pretty much anywhere.

Help me understand how 50 or 60 knots anywhere other than a high speed turnoff is legit. (Because I guarantee if your plane has SWA on it, you are seeing those speeds.)

I donít do that, and I donít fly with people who do, but I damned sure see SWA do it every day, everywhere.

Everyone sees it. All of us have seen the fun maneuvers down final to bleed off speed too. Just saw the steep turns up and down final trick the other day..... Please donít try and tell us we arenít seeing this stuff. We are all pilots who fly the same (or similar) planes, and we know what we are looking at.

You might be cool with it, and thatís OK..... Right until it doesnít work out.

People excuse that culture because ďwe only fly the 737, so we are really used to it,Ē or whatever. But itís catching up to yíall.

Some of us donít get in a plane and play those games. SWA is one place I never applied to. I know enough to know I wouldnít fit in there. Iím just not wired to be a risk taker, and I do understand how getting in a hurry is an unnecessary risk. Itís not good teamwork, itís not playing ball, itís dangerous and stupid.

There are a lot of good things about your company and culture, but that stuff should be stopped. It will stop, as soon as a really big event happens.

Peacock
01-20-2019, 08:28 AM
Letís just say we have different perspectives....

I encourage you to look at the gps groundspeed on a taxiway, pretty much anywhere.

Help me understand how 50 or 60 knots anywhere other than a high speed turnoff is legit. (Because I guarantee if your plane has SWA on it, you are seeing those speeds.)

I donít do that, and I donít fly with people who do, but I damned sure see SWA do it every day, everywhere.

Everyone sees it. All of us have seen the fun maneuvers down final to bleed off speed too. Just saw the steep turns up and down final trick the other day..... Please donít try and tell us we arenít seeing this stuff. We are all pilots who fly the same (or similar) planes, and we know what we are looking at.

You might be cool with it, and thatís OK..... Right until it doesnít work out.

People excuse that culture because ďwe only fly the 737, so we are really used to it,Ē or whatever. But itís catching up to yíall.

Some of us donít get in a plane and play those games. SWA is one place I never applied to. I know enough to know I wouldnít fit in there. Iím just not wired to be a risk taker, and I do understand how getting in a hurry is an unnecessary risk.

There are a lot of good things about your company and culture, but that stuff should be stopped. It will stop, as soon as a really big event happens.


Did you apply to Delta? United? Those guys apparently cowboy it up too. Otherwise, like whackmaster, post some evidence or shut up.

jcountry
01-20-2019, 08:32 AM
Did you apply to Delta? United? Those guys apparently cowboy it up too. Otherwise, like whackmaster, post some evidence or shut up.

I donít care what you think

I shared my perspective, and I have my opinion. Itís worth precisely what you paid for it.

I applied where I did and was hired where I work. Iím happy here.

With all due respect, you donít want people posting evidence. You want that culture fixed internally-without the media getting too interested in looking into what we see.

Anyhow, doesnít make a difference to me. I donít work there, and never had any desire to.

Peacock
01-20-2019, 08:37 AM
I donít care what you think

I shared my perspective, and I have my opinion. Itís worth precisely what you paid for it.

I applied where I did and was hired where I work. Iím happy here.

With all due respect, you donít want people posting evidence. You want that culture fixed internally-without the media getting too interested in looking into what we see.

Anyhow, doesnít make a difference to me. I donít work there, and never had any desire to.

Neat. You wonít post evidence because you donít have it. Because it doesnít exist. Thanks for letting us know you wouldnít fit in a culture you know nothing about.

at6d
01-20-2019, 08:40 AM
I donít care what you think

I have my opinion.

Anyhow, doesnít make a difference to me.

I donít work there, and never had any desire to.

Passive aggressive demo complete!

OOfff
01-20-2019, 08:50 AM
I donít care what you think

I shared my perspective, and I have my opinion. Itís worth precisely what you paid for it.

I applied where I did and was hired where I work. Iím happy here.

With all due respect, you donít want people posting evidence. You want that culture fixed internally-without the media getting too interested in looking into what we see.

Anyhow, doesnít make a difference to me. I donít work there, and never had any desire to.

ďI donít care what you think, but hereís a baseless diatribe as if you should care what I think.Ē

Selfmade92
01-20-2019, 08:57 AM
Are you a controller? How do you know swa is doing ďcrazy stuffĒ to make approaches work out?

Saw them doing S-Turns in a 737 on a 3 mile final the other day so they could lose altitude and wouldn't have to go around. Only Southwest. :D

gipple
01-20-2019, 09:20 AM
Help me understand how 50 or 60 knots anywhere other than a high speed turnoff is legit. (Because I guarantee if your plane has SWA on it, you are seeing those speeds.)

Maybe when your max taxi speed is 5 kts, 20 or 30 kts looks like 60.
50 or 60 is pure BS.

WhaleSurfing
01-20-2019, 09:30 AM
Really surprised Whack hasn’t been tracked down by management and terminated. VPNs aren’t 100%. He’s continually disseminated confidential company information while whining about an acquisition that provided him with a much more stable career.

This guy has the biggest chip on his shoulder I have ever seen and quite frankly the company would be more than justified to kick him to the street.

Your little VJ/AT flying club went away. So sad. Do you really think they would have just continued to on status quo or grown in this environment. Get over yourself, or move.

WhaleSurfing
01-20-2019, 09:32 AM
Saw them doing S-Turns in a 737 on a 3 mile final the other day so they could lose altitude and wouldn't have to go around. Only Southwest. :D

Why only at SWA? Just curious as to the criteria you would use to prohibit that at 3 miles?

jcountry
01-20-2019, 09:44 AM
Neat. You wonít post evidence because you donít have it. Because it doesnít exist. Thanks for letting us know you wouldnít fit in a culture you know nothing about.

Yep.

You should hope some investigative journalists donít decide to see whoís right.

Evidence you request is not evidence you wish to see in public.

jcountry
01-20-2019, 09:45 AM
Why only at SWA? Just curious as to the criteria you would use to prohibit that at 3 miles?

Our airline has a very strict stabilized approach policy,

If you do that here, you will get a call. If you keep doing it here, you will see consequences.

Simply put, our culture deals with people who pull that crap. Itís unacceptable, and it should be.

rickair7777
01-20-2019, 09:49 AM
Why only at SWA? Just curious as to the criteria you would use to prohibit that at 3 miles?

Depends on the airline, at the several I've worked at you had to be configured, stable on course and GS at 1000'. Some allowed Airspeed and power variations well below 1000'. But none would have permitted S-turns below 1000', per SOP. Turboprops landing on a long runway at the hub might have blown that off routinely (since they routinely got dunked).

I think you could probably safely do S-turns down to 500' in VMC, as long as you nailed all the gates exactly at 500'. Assuming SOP permitted that. But both pilots would need to be spring loaded to respect the floor.

Peacock
01-20-2019, 10:02 AM
Yep.

You should hope some investigative journalists donít decide to see whoís right.

Evidence you request is not evidence you wish to see in public.
Actual investigation? Why do that and spoil all the fun for internet experts like yourself? Thereís no need to wait for investigations into three 737ís from three different companies sliding off three different runways in a week. The clear answer is those damn cowboys at SWA put those planes in the grass.

Skyward
01-20-2019, 11:02 AM
Letís just say we have different perspectives....

I encourage you to look at the gps groundspeed on a taxiway, pretty much anywhere.

Help me understand how 50 or 60 knots anywhere other than a high speed turnoff is legit. (Because I guarantee if your plane has SWA on it, you are seeing those speeds.)

I donít do that, and I donít fly with people who do, but I damned sure see SWA do it every day, everywhere.

Everyone sees it. All of us have seen the fun maneuvers down final to bleed off speed too. Just saw the steep turns up and down final trick the other day..... Please donít try and tell us we arenít seeing this stuff. We are all pilots who fly the same (or similar) planes, and we know what we are looking at.

You might be cool with it, and thatís OK..... Right until it doesnít work out.

People excuse that culture because ďwe only fly the 737, so we are really used to it,Ē or whatever. But itís catching up to yíall.

Some of us donít get in a plane and play those games. SWA is one place I never applied to. I know enough to know I wouldnít fit in there. Iím just not wired to be a risk taker, and I do understand how getting in a hurry is an unnecessary risk. Itís not good teamwork, itís not playing ball, itís dangerous and stupid.

There are a lot of good things about your company and culture, but that stuff should be stopped. It will stop, as soon as a really big event happens.

Thatís a lot of words just to explain that you really donít know what youíre talking about. How can you know about a culture that youíre not part of?

Skyward
01-20-2019, 11:08 AM
Our airline has a very strict stabilized approach policy,

If you do that here, you will get a call. If you keep doing it here, you will see consequences.

Simply put, our culture deals with people who pull that crap. Itís unacceptable, and it should be.

Thatís no different than SWA. FOQA is alive and well, and so is a strict srabilized approach policy. Iím thinking you saw a turn or something above 1000í that youíre calling an S turn on short final.

Fast90
01-20-2019, 01:43 PM
Dam lighten up. Challenging conditions at Eppley. Bad Karma to bad mouth fellow pilots without facts. Seems to be some envy. Be happy. No I am not with SWA.

Learflyer
01-20-2019, 02:25 PM
That BUR Landing in +RA was smart.

Selfmade92
01-20-2019, 03:14 PM
Thatís no different than SWA. FOQA is alive and well, and so is a strict srabilized approach policy. Iím thinking you saw a turn or something above 1000í that youíre calling an S turn on short final.

Oh no, Southwest called tower and asked to do S-Turns and they did them...

Opakapaka
01-20-2019, 04:29 PM
Why? I thought that was very funny and appropriate. In fact, weíre on day two of three and both the FO and I have been incorporating SWAMAS into our approach briefings for comedic effect this trip because quite frankly the rate at which we run off of pavement is getting to be comical.
Hey Troll. What say you about United at ORD? Thought so.... idiot. Embarrassed to have you as a swa pilot. Had you been on probation for a year youíd never have made it. Boyyy

CanWeGetTheLeft
01-20-2019, 07:18 PM
ďJesus people. Canít we all just take up fly fishing or something and chill?!Ē

-WHACKMASTER, TOTD thread

2StgTurbine
01-20-2019, 09:43 PM
Next time someone thinks they saw a Southwest 737 do s-turns inside of 3 miles, post the flightaware track here. Otherwise, stop posting what you think happened when you were 10 miles behind them.

maxjet
01-21-2019, 02:24 AM
I love Southwest. Love most of the culture. Love the service, and many complements to the employees and how they treat non-rev and jumpseaters.

When I was flying 1900’s, taking shortcuts, breaking off of Runway 32 and landing 3/4 of the way down 28L in PIT to avoid the taxiing, being put on the pararell taxiway so that we could taxi extremely fast we thought it was cool. We thought all the major pilots who rode on us and told us we were unsafe were full of crap. We were in the culture and could not see our problem. We never had an accident so we must know what we are doing, right? It was a huge culture shock when I went to my first large jet and had to become a professional pilot.

Perhaps a little of this exists at Southwest? The problem with this mentality is that in the right hands, 90 degree turns to final in El Paso at 100 feet is not incredibly dangerous. (Personally observed and at the time thought it was pretty cool). In the wrong hands, not so much.

To the posters who seem so offended, as long as that doesn’t represent you, then, ...sticks and stones... If it is you, then please stop, as I may have a loved one on your aircraft that day.

Peacock
01-21-2019, 05:52 AM
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WF8kE8Eby1Q

Braking action reported good immediately before landing. They reported it good during roll out. Tower asked them to take it to the end, and apparently there and upon further inspection by airfield management it was not good. Sounds like those SWA cowboys thought they could land with braking action good. I bet the check airman was showing off his high speed ice taxiing to indoctrinate the new FO in the daredevil culture, amirite?!?!

RckyMtHigh
01-21-2019, 05:55 AM
Perhaps a little of this exists at Southwest? The problem with this mentality is that in the right hands, 90 degree turns to final in El Paso at 100 feet is not incredibly dangerous. (Personally observed and at the time thought it was pretty cool). In the wrong hands, not so much.

It doesnít exist. Thatís what everyone that works here besides one disgruntled ex-Air Tran pilot are saying. To imply that it does on a public forum gets people a little worked up. Did it? Yeah, probably (I donít know, before my time but the stereotype comes from somewhere). Does it? No. Have I seen s-turns here? Yep, once in three years and that was miles out at several thousand feet after getting held up by atc. Not because someone is trying to get the airplane on deck 30 seconds earlier though. Bottom line is the rush rush culture of 15 minute turns does not exist anymore and especially not at the expense of safety. Itís insulting to the professional pilots at SWA when people perpetuate old stereotypes that say otherwise.

The only time Iíve seen an approach that I went ďwhoaĒ at was a United heavy coming into SFO. Does that make Unitedís culture messed up? Nope. Thatís an individual making a poor decision.

Skyward
01-21-2019, 06:09 AM
I love Southwest. Love most of the culture. Love the service, and many complements to the employees and how they treat non-rev and jumpseaters.

When I was flying 1900ís, taking shortcuts, breaking off of Runway 32 and landing 3/4 of the way down 28L in PIT to avoid the taxiing, being put on the pararell taxiway so that we could taxi extremely fast we thought it was cool. We thought all the major pilots who rode on us and told us we were unsafe were full of crap. We were in the culture and could not see our problem. We never had an accident so we must know what we are doing, right? It was a huge culture shock when I went to my first large jet and had to become a professional pilot.

Perhaps a little of this exists at Southwest? The problem with this mentality is that in the right hands, 90 degree turns to final in El Paso at 100 feet is not incredibly dangerous. (Personally observed and at the time thought it was pretty cool). In the wrong hands, not so much.

To the posters who seem so offended, as long as that doesnít represent you, then, ...sticks and stones... If it is you, then please stop, as I may have a loved one on your aircraft that day.

Nope. It doesnít still exist at SWA.

Itíll never let my puppy or guitar ride on UAL though! That dang culture

Sa227capt
01-21-2019, 03:32 PM
Why? I thought that was very funny and appropriate. In fact, weíre on day two of three and both the FO and I have been incorporating SWAMAS into our approach briefings for comedic effect this trip because quite frankly the rate at which we run off of pavement is getting to be comical.

You finally upgraded? Scary times indeed... If you hate it so bad, why not leave? Now is the time to do so. Everyone is hiring. Sad though that you are a known commodity in both name here and actual name. Please nock it off in all seriousness. Your consistent negativity serves no real purpose other than to try and make yourself look better than everyone else that you work with. No one cares anymore about your personal sob stories. We all have them. We learn and move on.

I don't post much, however, this time I had to.

Apologies everyone.

maxjet
01-21-2019, 10:36 PM
It doesnít exist. Thatís what everyone that works here besides one disgruntled ex-Air Tran pilot are saying. To imply that it does on a public forum gets people a little worked up. Did it? Yeah, probably (I donít know, before my time but the stereotype comes from somewhere). Does it? No. Have I seen s-turns here? Yep, once in three years and that was miles out at several thousand feet after getting held up by atc. Not because someone is trying to get the airplane on deck 30 seconds earlier though. Bottom line is the rush rush culture of 15 minute turns does not exist anymore and especially not at the expense of safety. Itís insulting to the professional pilots at SWA when people perpetuate old stereotypes that say otherwise.

I feel your pain. I fly for Kalitta. Best kept secret in aviation. I resisted coming over here for years because of the rep. Got here in 2011 to find the cleanest and best maintained aircraft I have ever flown. A company that is very family oriented, and I made 418,000 last year. So much for reps. When I hear or read people mentioning K4 in a bad light I just smile and nod, laughing all the way to the bank on my paid ticket home from work.

JohnBurke
01-29-2019, 03:33 AM
Youíre an idiot lonely boy

I thought it was funny.

FlyJSH
01-31-2019, 08:41 PM
I thought it was funny.

That figures.

If you are married, your wife must be a saint.

727C47
02-01-2019, 02:22 AM
I feel your pain. I fly for Kalitta. Best kept secret in aviation. I resisted coming over here for years because of the rep. Got here in 2011 to find the cleanest and best maintained aircraft I have ever flown. A company that is very family oriented, and I made 418,000 last year. So much for reps. When I hear or read people mentioning K4 in a bad light I just smile and nod, laughing all the way to the bank on my paid ticket home from work.

Amen brother, I loved my time at K4😎

JohnBurke
02-02-2019, 01:27 AM
That figures.

If you are married, your wife must be a saint.

Always enlightening to see people take the low road and enter with personal attacks as you've attempted.

You're free to leave my wife out of it in future, but for the record, yes. She is a saint.

She also thinks it's funny.

smc2020
02-04-2019, 06:21 AM
Why do I feel like I'm back in the 3rd grade?

727C47
02-04-2019, 07:16 AM
Why do I feel like I'm back in the 3rd grade?

You wouldnít get away with this in third grade : )

costalpilot
03-10-2019, 11:02 AM
Saw them doing S-Turns in a 737 on a 3 mile final the other day so they could lose altitude and wouldn't have to go around. Only Southwest. :D

you rather go around than do s turns?

wtf?

rickair7777
03-10-2019, 11:18 AM
you rather go around than do s turns?

wtf?

I'm not averse to s turns, but you really should be stable not too much closer than three miles.

At some point the ga becomes preferable to s turns.

B757
03-10-2019, 05:09 PM
you rather go around than do s turns?

wtf?

..My Ops-manual says go-around is the only option from an unstable approach..Most airlines require the same..

..I once had a Co-Pilot, who wanted to īīslipīī an ERJ145 on final to lose altitude..Such procedure was not mentioned in our manuals, so his approach must have been stable then..Or not ??

Fly Safe,
B757

Adlerdriver
03-11-2019, 09:21 AM
..My Ops-manual says go-around is the only option from an unstable approach..Most airlines require the same..
Does it say you can't s-turn prior to the "donut" in space you have to fly through meeting stable criteria? (whatever that is for your airline)
If they haven't gotten to the point that stable criteria is required, is the approach unstable?

Blackhawk
03-11-2019, 01:12 PM
OMG. Someone did some s-turns. 🙄



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