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Birdsmash
01-19-2019, 04:57 AM
Good read.
“Make no mistake, Amazon wants to take command and control over as much of its logistics as possible,”

Check out this article from USA TODAY:
Amazon pushing hard into ocean shipping, making it easier for Chinese goods to get to you

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/01/18/amazon-pushing-hard-into-ocean-shipping-china-u-s/2589422002/


AC560
01-20-2019, 07:24 AM
Amazon has always been three things. A finance company, a data/hosting company, and a logistics company. They have never really been an online retailer and that was never the goal.

Sears didn’t lose at E-Com for any reason other then their supply chain sucked.

heavycargo
01-23-2019, 10:48 AM
It's okay! Fred Smith thinks its "Fantastical" that Amazon is trying to compete. He needs to take a break from the diluted purple Kool Aid and take a look around him.

Fred Smith needs a good dose of reality when it comes to future competition. Everyone seems to be in denial and wall street isn't buying the idea that Amazon can't compete.

Make no mistake Amazon has some obvious competitive advantages over Fedex and UPS.
•Amazon is building their logistics network with the latest technology which offers greater cost savings and efficiencies. Go hang out at the Fedex Hub and watch the train wreck as employees are still hand scanning boxes as they fall off the conveyor belts because they can't keep up. Meanwhile, Amazon has robots and GPS driven devices moving their packages. Take a jumpseat out of the sorting facility in Newark just to see how far behind some of the facilities are.
•Amazon has over 1/3 of the U.S. population as prime customers that will quickly become Amazon ship customers automatically at the click of a button.
•Amazon has the advantage of offering businesses one of the biggest marketplaces in the world and bringing customers straight to businesses and offer logistic and shipping services. Being just a shipping company will not be enough in the future. Fred Smith and others at UPS continue to boast about the fact that Fedex's business is mostly business to business. Amazon once ready can deliver greater value.
•Amazon is a tech company with forward-thinking individuals that can quickly overcome the idea that it takes a conventional logistic network like Fedex or UPS to compete. Technology and the right strategies can easily change that overnight.

Ask Kodak how things are looking these days...


shroomwell
01-23-2019, 12:46 PM
More, from the recent issue of Air Cargo World. I believe FedEx and UPS ignore Amazon at their peril (though you'd never believe that by reading what all the pilot experts on their message boards believe):




By Randy Woods

THE ACE OF AMAZON AIR

16 DECEMBER 2018 / JANUARY 2019 | AIRCARGOWORLD.COM | @ACWMAGAZINE

The flight deck of the U.S.S. Nimitz aircraft carrier measures a little more than 2.5 hectares. That may seem like a vast area to a person standing on the deck, but from the vantage point of a fighter aircraft, approaching at about 135 knots, the landing strip can look like a mere speck on an endless sea. Also, because the ship is likely under way and heaving on ocean swells, the tiny target is constantly moving unpredictably in every direction.

Now imagine the same scenario in pitch-black, moonless conditions.
“I wanted to serve my country, and I thought that the most difficult thing to do would be landing on ships at night,” said Sarah Rhoads, former fighter pilot and current director of Amazon Air. “And I had the privilege of doing that.”

Ever since she was seven years old, growing up in her home state of Montana, Rhoads wanted nothing more than to fly fast. Her father had taken Sarah to see an air show, and she was instantly smitten by the rush of precision flying. “I don’t know what it was, but I just wanted to feel what it was like to break the sound barrier and go fast and fly upside down,” said the former daredevil.

Today, after a successful career as a pilot and flight instructor for the U.S. Navy’s carrier-based F/A-18 aircraft, Rhoads is no longer busting sound barriers, but she is still breaking things – like the conventions of the e-commerce air markets.

At Amazon Air, Rhoads is now responsible for providing the leadership and vision for Amazon’s expanding airhaul network, which grew from zero freighters in March 2016 to 40 freighters today.

It’s easy to forget that Amazon Air, which has commanded the attention of the logistics world for most of the last two years, didn’t even exist before 2016. In 2015, Amazon worked with Air Transport Services Group (ATSG) to experiment with operating an own-controlled fleet of freighters to complement its reliance on the U.S. Postal Service and integrators such as FedEx and UPS.

After announcing it would launch its own air network, Amazon made an initial order to lease 20 converted 767 freighters to be operated by ATSG’s subsidiaries, ABX Air and Air Transport International. Later, another 20 converted 767Fs were ordered, to be operated by Atlas Air Worldwide.
By the start of 2017, Amazon revealed that it would base most of its expanding fleet at Cincinnati/Northern Kentucky International Airport (CVG) and share the ramp space and large sorting facility built years earlier by DHL Express.

Since September 2017, Rhoads has been in charge of all of this explosive growth. Amazon Air is now embarking on its latest phase – the construction of its own cargo facility at CVG, apart from the existing DHL hub. Eventually, the new cargo center could employ 15,000 workers and handle up to 200 flights per day.

All told in 2018, Amazon Air has added eight 767 freighters to its fleet and seven new “gateway” destinations, in Denver; Hartford; Miami; Minneapolis; Portland, Ore.; Wilmington, Ohio; and the latest addition, Riverside, Calif., bringing the total to 21 gateways, nationwide. While 20 of the freighters operate out of the CVG hub, many of the rest fly point-to-point routes to these gateways, as demand needs change.
“2018 has certainly been a year of growth for the Amazon Air program,” Rhoads said. “I’m certainly proud of all the work my team has done to get to this point.”

The main goal, this year and every year, is to ensure that the carrier has the capacity necessary to fulfill Amazon’s customer promise, Rhoads said. “And I think we’ve been very methodical with our planning, so fortunately I wouldn’t say we’ve been particularly surprised by anything,” she added. “We’ve been able to maintain stability in a year with still some fairly rapid growth.”

For maintaining control of the stick at Amazon Air during this year of

intense activity, for service to her country, and for her role in helping reinvent air cargo logistics, Air Cargo World’s readers and editors recognize Sarah Rhoads as Air Cargo Executive of the Year for 2018.
“Sarah is an excellent choice” for Executive of the Year, said John Dietrich, executive vice president and chief operating officer of Atlas Air Worldwide. “She has taken on enormous responsibility with an aggressive business plan – all of which she and her team have managed to execute on time.”

Actions rather than words


Since its humble beginning in 1994, nearly a quarter-century ago, Amazon has been reluctant to give up its secrets or comment on its future ambitions. The same is true for Amazon Air, which was founded in 2016 as the e-tailer’s air delivery arm.

Strolling inside the other-worldly, triple-lobed glass-and-steel domes called “The Spheres” at Amazon’s newly built – and still expanding – Seattle headquarters, Rhoads was circumspect about the inner workings of the carrier. In true military protocol, Rhoads gave all credit for her success to the “world-class, diverse talent” on her team.

When asked about Amazon Air’s future, Rhoads returned with laser-like precision to her focus on her customers. “We need to make sure that we’re growing in a way that fulfills our customer promise,” Rhoads said. “This year, we’ve launched seven gateways, so that’s kind of a reflection of our expansion.”

But while Rhoads is reticent to speak, a swirl of unanswered questions continues to spin around Amazon about its growing competition in the U.S. and abroad, global trade wars or potential economic hardships in 2019.

For instance, it has been well documented that, in 2015, Amazon had experimented with own-controlled express air networks in Europe, with help from 3PL DB Schenker and 737 freighters from ASL Airlines. Rumors have circulated that Europe may be the next stepping stone for Amazon Air.

Rhoads, however, had little to add, other than to say, “My role really is to focus on North America right now.” Atlas’ Dietrich also had no comment about where Amazon might make its next move, but added that, “Amazon is the leader in the fast-growing global e-commerce sector, with opportunity to expand across all geographies.”

As for the addition of differentkinds of aircraft, Rhoads said that the
767 is a “workhorse” and “a proven platform that has demonstrated that
it’s done what we’ve needed it to do for the past two years.”

Amazon Air and its carrierpartners have also been dogged with complaints by pilot unions –especially Teamsters Local 1224, representing pilots from subsidiarycarriers owned by Atlas and ATSG– that pilots are being overworkedand undercompensated for the extra hours needed to meet Amazon’s e-commerce demand. Rhoads said those are questions for the carriersthat are contracted to fly for Amazon Air, but added that, “the service that’s been provided by Atlas and ATSG to us has been very consistent.”

As demand for e-commerce rises, many airfreight pundits foresee a
time when Amazon will more closely resemble an integrator than an
e-tail giant, which would turn the likes of FedEx and UPS into direct
competitors rather than clients.

Currently, FedEx and UPS “arest ill very much our partners,” Rhoads
said. “But I’ll be honest – we want to make sure we deliver on that two-day [delivery] promise, in particular.”

Top Gun days

Rhoads remains close-lipped about Amazon’s tactical and strategic
thinking, but she is by no means taciturn when it comes to her team.
“I would say that I have a very open communication with my team; I
welcome and expect feedback – and, frankly, pushback from my team,” she explained. “If there’s a better way of doing something, I want to hear it.”

A spokesperson for Amazon described Rhoads’ style as “confident yet humble servant leadership,” which focuses on “removing barriers,
enabling her team to solve complex problems with innovative solutions.”
“I try to lead by example, as well,” Rhoads said. “I try to encourage
people to make mistakes while ensuring we don’t fail. I think that’s
one of the best ways to learn is by learning from mistakes.”

Dietrich has high praise for the professionalism of the Amazon Air team, despite the short time it has been operating. “They have extraordinary command of the subject matter,” he said. “They are very focused on customer service. We are honored that Sarah and the Amazon team have chosen Atlas Air as a partner.”

Rhoads’ precise way of taking on new challenges was, no doubt, forged
during her service in the U.S. Navy. Following the dream of that little girl
at a Montana air show, she joined the U.S. Naval Academy and earned a
bachelor of science degree with merit in mechanical engineering, and later
earned a master’s degree in national security and strategic studies from
the U.S. Naval War College. She served on active duty in the Navy from 1999 to 2011, and as an active Reservist from 2011 to 2014,
achieving the rank of Commander, and flying the carrier-based F/A-18
E/F Super Hornet fighter aircraft. During Operation Iraqi Freedom in
2003, she flew 37 combat missions from the U.S.S. Nimitz in the Arabian
Gulf, providing air support, armed reconnaissance and escort.


Later, Rhoads served as an instructor pilot with Strike Fighter Squadron 122 from 2005 to 2007. Among many other duties, she instructed more than 100 Naval aviators in the operation and tactical employment of the Super Hornet. “Sarah was one of three pilots selected Navy-wide to represent the United States at the 2006 Farnborough International Airshow,” said the Amazon spokesperson. “She’s our real-life ‘Top Gun.’”

Being a successful woman in a traditionally, almost exclusively, male
profession, Rhoads said she is often asked if she suffered extra hardships
on her rise through the ranks. “Really, I never made a big deal about it,” she explained. “Because I didn’t, other people didn’t either. The great thing about aviation is it doesn’t matter what your gender is or your religion or your race. It’s how you do the job. That’s what counts.”


Coming home

After an adrenaline-fueled, high-stress 12 years of service, Rhoads began thinking about her transition to civilian life in 2014, but it was Amazon that made the first move. “They found me first,” she said. “I think they saw maybe the translatable skills that I had before I recognized it.”


“We saw someone who had achieved every educational and professional goal set in some intense environments, and with high performing teams,” said an Amazon spokesperson about Rhoads’ military and aviation credentials.

While she was still a Navy Reservist, Rhoads joined Amazon in May 2011 as an operations manager for a fulfillment center in Lexington, Kentucky, and was promoted in 2012 to senior operations manager, leading
fulfillment center teams in Lexington and Columbia, South Carolina. She
then relocated in 2013 to Fort Worth, to lead the launch of the outbound
operation in the largest, roboticsready facility in Amazon’s network.

“What really made me interested was the pace of operations. I think
I’m an operator at heart,” Rhoads said. “I also wanted to be challenged
every day in a positive way, just like I was in the Navy. Third, I wanted to do something where I wouldn’t be sitting behind a desk every day, and Amazon has provided that every day.”

After developing a genuine love for the operational aspects of fulfillment logistics, Rhoads transferred to Wales to become general manager of one of the largest Amazon operations in the U.K. By January 2016, she relocated to London and became regional director of operations, responsible for leading thousands of Amazon employees and fulfillment center operations in northwest England and Wales.

Despite her increasing responsibilities, Rhoads’ duties were often
hands-on, including shifts on the “front line,” picking merchandise for
customer orders. “I spent quite a bit of time in fulfillment centers, when
I was representing my region,” she said. “There’s an expectation to know
all the details of one’s business.”


In April 2017, Rhoads came back to the U.S., seeking a shift to
Amazon’s new aviation arm, then known as “Prime Air.” As someone
with a passion for both aviation and fulfillment, she fit in well as director
of aviation operations for the airwing, based in Seattle. She was promoted to director of Prime Air in September 2017, which changed its name to “Amazon Air” by year’s end to avoid confusion with its delivery
drone program, also called Prime Air.

Rhoads also appreciates how much her Navy background has suited he current position. “It’s been helpful to have a true understanding and
appreciation for aviation safety,” she noted. “Understanding things, ranging from engines to instrument approach requirements, runway
lengths, and what it means when aircraft need to divert because of a weather event.”

More holistically, Rhoads said she is grateful for the “agility” she learned in the Navy, which she defined as, “being able to recognize that things
may not go according to plan, how to adapt and still be able to be successful, especially in what can be considered an ambiguous environment.”

As an avid downhill skier, long-distance runner and outdoor enthusiast, Rhoads has never been one to stay idle for very long. “What keeps me
away from my desk is engaging with my team,” she said. “I do travel quite a bit, and I find that engaging with front-line workers – folks that are at the core of our operation – I really value that.”

What’s ahead for 2019?

When Air Cargo World spoke with Rhoads, Amazon was on the cusp of peak season activity, but there was a distinct calmness about her
demeanor. “It’s always an exciting time for us,” she said. “But we spend a lot of time planning for our peak season. The outcome is usually indicative of the amount of effort’s that’s put in.”

True to form, she was not thinking much beyond the immediate tasks at hand. Her outlook for 2019, she said, will have to wait until the peak
runs like clockwork first. “But it’s not too early to start thinking about 2019,” she acknowledged. “We saw it in 2017 and this year, we’ve experienced quite a bit of growth. I think I need to make sure
that we, as an organization, are prepared to handle that growth – whatever that may be.”

Much of next year will be spent on preliminary work for Amazon’s CVG hub, so that it no longer has to share DHL’s sorting equipment. “We’ll make sure that we’re ready for a 2021 launch,” she said.

For the most part, Rhoads said she prefers to rely on her experienced, cross-functional team to come up with day-to-day decisions. “But for
some of the larger decisions that really drive our business, there have been particular points where I maybe provide a little rudder-steering in there,” she added. “But that’s the fun part about my job.”

After making countless practice runs landing on a moving speck on the ocean – and learning from mistakes until it was done right – Sarah
Rhoads will likely continue guiding Amazon Airwith a steely nerve and a steady hand.

brownie
01-23-2019, 01:05 PM
4 min of my life I cant never get back🙄

CaptDave
01-23-2019, 03:11 PM
Adapt or GTFO.

brownie
01-23-2019, 05:03 PM
Adapt or GTFO.

Classy I see🙄

CaptDave
01-23-2019, 05:25 PM
Classy I see🙄

I’ll expound. That is a re-occurring business model mindset. I don’t find it classy, either, but it is what it is.

In other words, if a business is not willing to adapt to changes in the industry, it will eventually close the doors due to client/customer shift to a more “updated” service or product.

The bottom line is, when it’s all said and done, their goal is to turn profits for themselves and investors while keeping costs low and if a company is not willing or able to adapt their product, they will close their doors eventually.

Anyways, I’ll go back to my hole now and stop jumping in where I do not belong.

No Land 3
01-24-2019, 07:58 PM
Why couldn't Amazon compete with Brown and Purple? They can if they want to.

captjns
01-25-2019, 04:46 AM
Why couldn't Amazon compete with Brown and Purple? They can if they want to.

Different business models... the airline is part of Amazon’s model whereas, UPS and FED EX business models do not include retail, unless you want to include their stores as such.

filejw
01-25-2019, 09:17 AM
I’ll expound. That is a re-occurring business model mindset. I don’t find it classy, either, but it is what it is.

In other words, if a business is not willing to adapt to changes in the industry, it will eventually close the doors due to client/customer shift to a more “updated” service or product.

The bottom line is, when it’s all said and done, their goal is to turn profits for themselves and investors while keeping costs low and if a company is not willing or able to adapt their product, they will close their doors eventually.

Anyways, I’ll go back to my hole now and stop jumping in where I do not belong.

Actually you belong more than most as your understanding of what's going on is spot on. I note the woman mentioned as running Amazon Air has no airline or air cargo experience. Outside the box thinking is typical of these new companies.

CardboardCutout
01-25-2019, 12:40 PM
Outside the box thinking is typical of these new companies.

So is cratering.

To be fair, a lot of craters didn't have Amazon's war chest behind them.

heavycargo
01-26-2019, 08:04 AM
But apparently Fred thinks its not a problem.... Wake up Fred! The stock market isn't buying your opinion.

Report: Amazon to roll out offerings to take market share from FedEx and UPS

https://www.logisticsmgmt.com/article/report_amazon_to_roll_out_offerings_to_take_market _share_from_fedex_and_ups?fbclid=IwAR3FfZgQKDPMbWu geJN8k5twdvMrMwErWrouKITKMcE7m9cwOPpOwGjRrIY

Hacker15e
01-26-2019, 08:25 AM
You guys are idiots if you seriously think that, regardless of what they say in public, UPS and FX aren't watching every single move that Amazon makes and planning and executing a way to counter it.

These folks did not stooge into being world-class companies by accident.

Birdsmash
01-26-2019, 09:00 AM
You guys are idiots if you seriously think that, regardless of what they say in public, UPS and FX aren't watching every single move that Amazon makes and planning and executing a way to counter it.

These folks did not stooge into being world-class companies by accident.

Absolutely! However, I think AMZN is going to be a much bigger logistics player much quicker than most people give them credit for. This will be an interesting year to watch as their intentions become more clear.

SaltyDog
01-26-2019, 04:47 PM
Absolutely! However, I think AMZN is going to be a much bigger logistics player much quicker than most people give them credit for. This will be an interesting year to watch as their intentions become more clear.

FedEx or UPS can court the business' that funnel their business sales through AMZN. Afterall, logistics is simply that, logistics. These industry logistics competitors have competed with each other for decades. They competed with the USPS, DHL, and many others.
Each still delivers significant amount of AMZN business, and the percentage will decline in the future as AMZN builds its own networks, but a dynamic market. Its not a one way street.
Many seem quick to think they are going to decline to demise. Perhaps, but they also have the ability to siphon away business from AMZN on IT meeting customer and business side and take that to to their own web portals. AMZN relies on low cost labor models, historically, it will rise over time. Technology can be matched. Sure, they are impressive, and being shiny can drive some markets of logistics, but it is not likely to drive a FedEx or UPS out of business, especially if FedEx and UPS determine at some point to face off as competitors rather than seeing them as a customer as they are at present.
In its day, UPS was the disruptor, Fred was also a disruptor, now Bezos has the spotlight as a disruptor, welcome to the swimming pool.
Growing markets so not surprising AMZN looking how to maximize for AMZN.

JamesNoBrakes
01-26-2019, 05:46 PM
You guys are idiots if you seriously think that, regardless of what they say in public, UPS and FX aren't watching every single move that Amazon makes and planning and executing a way to counter it.

These folks did not stooge into being world-class companies by accident.

Maybe, but corporate cultures sometimes suffer from extremely myopic views and can't see the "forest for the trees". It's happened before and it'll happen again.

No Land 3
01-26-2019, 06:13 PM
You guys are idiots if you seriously think that, regardless of what they say in public, UPS and FX aren't watching every single move that Amazon makes and planning and executing a way to counter it.

These folks did not stooge into being world-class companies by accident.
Yes, I fully expect Fed Ex and UPS to make changes to remain competitive against what Amazon may come up with. It is this very expectation that I feel pilot pay and future labor contracts will eventually be affected, in the theme of lowering costs to match Amazon. This is also why I do not agree with people who put their head in the sand and think they are immune to Bezos.

SaltyDog
01-26-2019, 08:49 PM
Yes, I fully expect Fed Ex and UPS to make changes to remain competitive against what Amazon may come up with. It is this very expectation that I feel pilot pay and future labor contracts will eventually be affected, in the theme of lowering costs to match Amazon. This is also why I do not agree with people who put their head in the sand and think they are immune to Bezos.

UPS and FedEx seeks to lower their costs every contract. Nothing new. It is already the standard. Think since first airline pilot contract that has been the standard. Regardless, some industry analysts have written about the expense AMZN pays now growing infrastructure wont be competitive if AMZN cannot better manage growth long term. Same problems all logistics providers face.
I don't think all heads are in the sand, but some appear to have theirs in the clouds. Its a gritty market, but I don't see pilots going lower in their contracts. Especially when AMZN is only about 5% of their market volume.
AMZN has along long way to go to manage their own market much less take away the other 95% of FedEx and 95% of UPS. That would be a phenomenal and rapid shift. The reality for AMZN is when UPS and FedEx decide to not treat AMZN as a customer and competes for the AMZN customers. Its just a website meeting point. We just haven't seen the tipping point publicly. Certainly no one credible thinks that UPS and FedEx are head in the sand ignoring the market dynamics. They have been doing it for decades and longer.

G550Guy
01-28-2019, 09:50 AM
UPS and FedEx seeks to lower their costs every contract..


Yep.... and once the Amazon “contract employees” who have no pension, no medical, no retirement, and no way to bargain a better deal.... get really really ****ed off and go on strike:

Amazon stock is gonna tank 20% overnight.

The whipsaw at the air carriers alone is gonna be a meltdown once they’ve had enough of the Bulz-Shizza. And they’re getting closer every day.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

atpcliff
02-05-2019, 10:34 AM
"Amazon makes clear it's now competing with shippers like FedEx and UPS in its annual filing"
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/05/amazon-10k-adds-transportation-and-logistics-services-to-competitors.html?__source=iosappshare%7Ccom.apple. UIKit.activity.Message&fbclid=IwAR0C6eRqAco7DRs35oCSmflkkEXOUnjKktvOPKlF9 dRhxs_fS_I5lDmv58w

It sounds like Amazon's plan is to acquire/merge with one or more existing air/ground carriers.

G550Guy
02-26-2019, 12:54 PM
I sure do love Walmart.com. Free shipping! [emoji41]

Yes I’m being a little sarcastic. But the point is, Amazon isn’t the only retailer who’s selling other companies “stuff” under their name and marketing umbrella. They will not rule the world and run Walmart, Target, UPS, FedEx out of business.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/f4fd19c0d850ec9a1554eb3571ab6b57.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

727CA
02-26-2019, 08:01 PM
I sure do love Walmart.com. Free shipping! [emoji41]

Yes I’m being a little sarcastic. But the point is, Amazon isn’t the only retailer who’s selling other companies “stuff” under their name and marketing umbrella. They will not rule the world and run Walmart, Target, UPS, FedEx out of business.



https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190226/f4fd19c0d850ec9a1554eb3571ab6b57.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Does Walmart actually carry the inventory in distribution centers like Amazon, or is Walmart just a middleman that simply advertises the product, then the individual company still ships it.

No Land 3
02-26-2019, 08:18 PM
Does Walmart actually carry the inventory in distribution centers like Amazon, or is Walmart just a middleman that simply advertises the product, then the individual company still ships it.

Amazon does both, think Walmart does too

G550Guy
02-26-2019, 08:28 PM
Does Walmart actually carry the inventory in distribution centers like Amazon, or is Walmart just a middleman that simply advertises the product, then the individual company still ships it.


~Amazon beats out Walmart currently in online sales and third party retailers.

~Walmart beats out Amazon currently with brick and mortar stores.

The two are rapidly advancing into each other’s area of expertise. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cujo665
02-28-2019, 11:20 AM
Boom
Omni getting 777 freighters

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/75835-omni-air-intl-to-start-b777-freighter-ops

CardboardCutout
02-28-2019, 11:39 AM
Boom
Omni getting 777 freighters

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/75835-omni-air-intl-to-start-b777-freighter-ops


Good news for Omni! Of course the magic question is "how many"...

Noworkallplay
02-28-2019, 03:05 PM
Good news for Omni! Of course the magic question is "how many"...

And pay the pilots RJ wages to fly them. The industry as a whole should not applause a growth in ACMI flying. It devalues the industry. This is all contract and RFP flying like the passanger regionals. Have we not learned our lessons?

4runner
02-28-2019, 03:19 PM
And pay the pilots RJ wages to fly them. The industry as a whole should not applause a growth in ACMI flying. It devalues the industry. This is all contract and RFP flying like the passanger regionals. Have we not learned our lessons?

Omni first year pay is higher than RJ Captain pay at any regional. Kalitta Captain pay is higher than JetBlue Captain. At least go to the airline profiles page of this website before engaging fingers. Have you met your 1000tt on flight sim yet?

Phoenix21
02-28-2019, 05:30 PM
And pay the pilots RJ wages to fly them. The industry as a whole should not applause a growth in ACMI flying. It devalues the industry. This is all contract and RFP flying like the passanger regionals. Have we not learned our lessons?

$113/hr first year pay...

SGALLO
02-28-2019, 05:31 PM
Omni first year pay is higher than RJ Captain pay at any regional. Kalitta Captain pay is higher than JetBlue Captain. At least go to the airline profiles page of this website before engaging fingers. Have you met your 1000tt on flight sim yet?

Now that’s funny!

ShadyMilkman
02-28-2019, 05:54 PM
Omni first year pay is higher than RJ Captain pay at any regional. Kalitta Captain pay is higher than JetBlue Captain. At least go to the airline profiles page of this website before engaging fingers. Have you met your 1000tt on flight sim yet?

Damn that burn was unexpected.

Noworkallplay
02-28-2019, 07:13 PM
Omni first year pay is higher than RJ Captain pay at any regional. Kalitta Captain pay is higher than JetBlue Captain. At least go to the airline profiles page of this website before engaging fingers. Have you met your 1000tt on flight sim yet?

Once again shows your part of the problem. A 747/777 Capt. shouldn’t make E190 hourly pay rates. Then added in soft money deficit from things like retirement, work rules, etc and he is 25-30% lower than an E190 driver at Jblue. Wow just can’t stop those who justify flying big airplanes for peanuts. Not to mention the actual terrible schedule they fly after the reroutes and extensions every month.

5th year Capt

Omni- 218$
JB AIRBUS- 237

And that’s not even looking at soft pay. Do you not understand that a 777 is 3 times larger with and exponentially higher revenue possibility? You would rather justify the pity full pay and work rules.

nitefr8dog
02-28-2019, 08:55 PM
Boom
Omni getting 777 freighters

https://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/news/75835-omni-air-intl-to-start-b777-freighter-ops
Boom
Amazon....

4runner
03-01-2019, 01:13 AM
And pay the pilots RJ wages to fly them. The industry as a whole should not applause a growth in ACMI flying. It devalues the industry. This is all contract and RFP flying like the passanger regionals. Have we not learned our lessons?

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe a majority of Omni bidness to be military. That’s not really ACMI, that’s totally different. Also, I believe that one of the large cargo companies used to be a collection of operators that the Feds made said company start their own airline, under their own management.

HvypurplePylot
03-01-2019, 03:07 AM
Boom
Amazon....
Boom
Lmao

Jurassic Jet
03-01-2019, 03:54 AM
Boom
Amazon....

I’ll just about guarantee that’s where the next 10 Amazon 767s are going.

MentalMidget
03-01-2019, 05:16 AM
Boom
Amazon....


or DHL....DHL ordered 14 777's I believe

Cujo665
03-01-2019, 01:08 PM
Once again shows your part of the problem. A 747/777 Capt. shouldn’t make E190 hourly pay rates. Then added in soft money deficit from things like retirement, work rules, etc and he is 25-30% lower than an E190 driver at Jblue. Wow just can’t stop those who justify flying big airplanes for peanuts. Not to mention the actual terrible schedule they fly after the reroutes and extensions every month.

5th year Capt

Omni- 218$
JB AIRBUS- 237

And that’s not even looking at soft pay. Do you not understand that a 777 is 3 times larger with and exponentially higher revenue possibility? You would rather justify the pity full pay and work rules.

You obviously have no clue about what happens at Omni. A career isn’t made on 5th year pay.
Top step 12 year CA pay
Omni - $297
JetBlue- $259

JetBlue, fly multiple leg days almost everyday on duty doing 80+ hours a month. Doing 4/3 or worse and commuting back and forth to crash pads while on reserve and again once upgrading.

Omni, do the same 16 days all at once (or in two blocks) flying 25-40 hours for the month enjoying long call in various cities all over the world, then enjoying your two to four week vacation every month. Soft money hidden everywhere for simple things like accepting a coach seat instead of business on an otherwise light loaded flight. Racking up air miles and free real tickets for family vacations, racking up hotel points for free family vacations. Never needing a crashpad, real positive space tickets to/from work. Passengers who are well behaved or their Sgt, Lt, Major or above sets em straight, vs the riff raff buying the cheap seats. Good crew meals and a nice nap on the crossing. One and done in most cases. No D+0 pressure. No need to wear blue cleaning gloves either. We take family vacations many times a year and never need to use my vacation time. Zero time spent planning commuting or wasted watching full flights leave. Just board with the other Executive Platinums and go....
FYI - I’ve never been extended, nor worked an override day that I didn’t volunteer for. So, I’m not sure where your info comes from.

767-300, 12 year CA pay is:
United: $293
American: $284
Delta: $296
Omni: $297 and $253 for small A320/737 size. A321 would be $297
JetBlue: $259 A320/A321

They really are two different type of jobs that both happen to be flying airplanes. The similarity pretty much stops there. I don’t know anybody leaving Omni for JetBlue-Spirit-Frontier unless they live in Base. Guys are still leaving for AA-UA-DL-UPS-FDX-AK-HAW, but not guys already in the left seat unless they’re younger.

I’m not saying JB is a bad job, because it isn’t. It’s just different. Many folks will like the 4/3 schedules, crashpads and commuting. We don’t do that.

Omni & Kalitta have become respectable career choices. Omni isn’t really a true ACMI, in that we do only passengers for military, government agencies, other airlines, and for vacation package companies.... that may be changing with 777 freighters looking like a reality soon. In any event, both Omni and Kalitta aren’t the typical ACMI. Just like JetBlue wasn’t really comparable to Frontier or Alegiant not too long ago.

Cujo665
03-01-2019, 01:30 PM
And pay the pilots RJ wages to fly them. The industry as a whole should not applause a growth in ACMI flying. It devalues the industry. This is all contract and RFP flying like the passanger regionals. Have we not learned our lessons?

Says the guy at the airline that started as a regional operating larger equipment.....

atpcliff
05-08-2019, 11:42 PM
"Amazon announces groundbreaking for its massive CVG cargo hub"

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/boone-county/2019/05/08/amazon-prime-air-cvg-cargo-hub-boone-county-cincinnati-airport-aero-parkway/1139710001/?fbclid=IwAR1esaBSyr6JpeRHilCUTqx_0yfA1oJLAE7iQJiR 1qabNpDqOAhx_BzVhyY

There are two Amazon ramps planned at CVG. They started building the southern ramp, which is larger than the existing DHL ramp. It is reported to be able to accommodate about 100 aircraft. The northern ramp, which will be constructed after the southern ramp, is much bigger than the ramp on the south side.

Also, Amazon, at some point in the past 2018?2017? bought the whole Comair Airline HQ building/complex. They are currently renovating it so they can move in to the whole facility...think they are using part of it now.

manolo1492
05-09-2019, 04:54 AM
Now if they can just figure out a way to attract and keep pilots, their plans of global domination will be complete!

ROBsINtheHOOD
05-09-2019, 11:23 AM
"Amazon announces groundbreaking for its massive CVG cargo hub"

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/local/boone-county/2019/05/08/amazon-prime-air-cvg-cargo-hub-boone-county-cincinnati-airport-aero-parkway/1139710001/?fbclid=IwAR1esaBSyr6JpeRHilCUTqx_0yfA1oJLAE7iQJiR 1qabNpDqOAhx_BzVhyY

There are two Amazon ramps planned at CVG. They started building the southern ramp, which is larger than the existing DHL ramp. It is reported to be able to accommodate about 100 aircraft. The northern ramp, which will be constructed after the southern ramp, is much bigger than the ramp on the south side.

Also, Amazon, at some point in the past 2018?2017? bought the whole Comair Airline HQ building/complex. They are currently renovating it so they can move in to the whole facility...think they are using part of it now.

Reading between the lines , this looks like a major challenge to DHL , or a major collaboration , the likes of which must make FedEx and UPS investors stay awake at night.

Wonder when a similar business plan ( Prime Air ) will be enacted in Europe. It doesn't take much imaginative thought to realise that the market potential in Europe is just as great as in the US.

Birdsmash
05-09-2019, 11:55 AM
Reading between the lines , this looks like a major challenge to DHL , or a major collaboration , the likes of which must make FedEx and UPS investors stay awake at night.

Wonder when a similar business plan ( Prime Air ) will be enacted in Europe. It doesn't take much imaginative thought to realise that the market potential in Europe is just as great as in the US.

A formal partnership/buyout between AMZN & DHL would give them an instant worldwide distribution network. Prime Air already partners with DHL in the US..

CardboardCutout
05-09-2019, 11:59 AM
Bag tags for everyone!

Temocil27
05-09-2019, 12:03 PM
Will the pilots be able to take bathroom breaks though?

midnightshuttle
05-09-2019, 01:32 PM
Amazon already partners with DHL in the UK and Throughout the EU.

FYI- UK mail is actually DHL. The Royal Post does indeed deliver for Amazon too. Dont forget that amazon now runs the most popular motoring show in the UK now after the BBC let it go. Amazon is growing fast however the taxes/tariffs/credits are far more difficult

Birdsmash
06-07-2019, 10:16 AM
The slow rolling AMZN/FDX/UPS divorce continues.

FedEx will no longer provide express shipping for Amazon in the U.S.
https://apple.news/AM3EYf60nSjKHyAxe1Cafhw

G550Guy
06-07-2019, 05:40 PM
FedEx will no longer provide express shipping for Amazon in the U.S.


Well played... I hope we follow their lead and do the exact same thing. If Bezos wants to enter the freight/logistics free market with PrimeAir, he can start delivering ALL his packages, tomorrow.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

NeverHome
06-07-2019, 07:28 PM
Well played... I hope we follow their lead and do the exact same thing. If Bezos wants to enter the freight/logistics free market with PrimeAir, he can start delivering ALL his packages, tomorrow.


Just spit balling here, but I really suspect that is a long term goal. I’m sure this wasn’t what they wanted (fedex deal), yet, but I’m guessing that in the next 5-10 years they may be a fairly heavy player. Or at least they will try ;)

C17B74
06-07-2019, 08:00 PM
Finally does showcase that FedEx is now playing smart on their own behalf. You don’t make such moves without thought or concern. While a good move, just a speed bump perhaps, time will tell.

brownie
06-08-2019, 02:18 AM
I think Fedex and hopefully Ups saw the light after Amazon pull the rug from under XPO and finally realised how ultimately Amazon treats thier customers at the end. Amazon's successful playbook always been learn your customers business and eventually undercut them or force them out.

mpflyboy1
06-08-2019, 07:27 AM
I think Fedex and hopefully Ups saw the light after Amazon pull the rug from under XPO and finally realised how ultimately Amazon treats thier customers at the end. Amazon's successful playbook always been learn your customers business and eventually undercut them or force them out.

Maybe they learned from China

nitefr8dog
06-08-2019, 09:44 AM
Well played... I hope we follow their lead and do the exact same thing. If Bezos wants to enter the freight/logistics free market with PrimeAir, he can start delivering ALL his packages, tomorrow.






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I doubt Bezos is to worried....he could use the change that fell out his pockets onto the floor of his car to buy ATSG and Atlas. That would give him 150 ish aircraft overnight and start flying his junk the day after oh let's say...tomorrow. Amazon already has regional hubs all over the US and is opening a larger sort in KILN at the end of June. They used to sort like 3M lbs a night there. That should give him a good start.

freightdawg
06-08-2019, 05:46 PM
I doubt Bezos is to worried....he could use the change that fell out his pockets onto the floor of his car to buy ATSG and Atlas. That would give him 150 ish aircraft overnight and start flying his junk the day after oh let's say...tomorrow. Amazon already has regional hubs all over the US and is opening a larger sort in KILN at the end of June. They used to sort like 3M lbs a night there. That should give him a good start.

Looked around the ramp in SDF the other night (and I’m positive MEM is the same). Do you realize the aircraft are just the tip of what’s required to run a logistics network? Look at all the equipment, vehicles, equipment maintenance, staffing, buildings, catering and people that make these things work. Just buying up a bunch of companies and throwing them together on paper doesn’t even start to describe the complexity.

nitefr8dog
06-08-2019, 06:21 PM
Looked around the ramp in SDF the other night (and I’m positive MEM is the same). Do you realize the aircraft are just the tip of what’s required to run a logistics network? Look at all the equipment, vehicles, equipment maintenance, staffing, buildings, catering and people that make these things work. Just buying up a bunch of companies and throwing them together on paper doesn’t even start to describe the complexity.
Yes I do....but in reality, Amazon just needs to move their boxes not everyone's. Just spitballing. If you look around....that's exactly what he is doing anyway. And its costing him less per package he sends so Bezos must think its worthwhile. And just using a bunch of companies on paper is exactly what DHL does all over the world. I am just saying what it looks like that idiot will do. The aircraft he has leased came with stock warrants ...will it work? Who cares...

ESQ702
06-08-2019, 10:17 PM
Will the pilots be able to take bathroom breaks though?

Yes.

And then you promptly get fired.

sixpack
06-09-2019, 02:16 AM
I doubt Bezos is to worried....he could use the change that fell out his pockets onto the floor of his car to buy ATSG and Atlas. That would give him 150 ish aircraft overnight and start flying his junk the day after oh let's say...tomorrow. Amazon already has regional hubs all over the US and is opening a larger sort in KILN at the end of June. They used to sort like 3M lbs a night there. That should give him a good start.


Bezos is not going to buy ATSG or ATLAS. He made it very clear when looking where to put the new HQs that the decision came down to being able to hire the best talent in the country. ACMI pilots are the bottom of the barrel in the pilot industry. 95% of them are not hirable at the majors for all sorts of reasons. Amazon will continue to contract out flying as along as they can. If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.

flugenmachen
06-09-2019, 05:16 AM
Bezos is not going to buy ATSG or ATLAS. He made it very clear when looking where to put the new HQs that the decision came down to being able to hire the best talent in the country. ACMI pilots are the bottom of the barrel in the pilot industry. 95% of them are not hirable at the majors for all sorts of reasons. Amazon will continue to contract out flying as along as they can. If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.

Your arrogance is exceeded only by your ignorance. At my particular ACMI carrier, the number of pilots hired away by the majors in the past few years, far outstrips the "5%" you suggest are worthy. Collect your facts, then make a cogent argument; rather than launching baseless cheap shots against pilots you know nothing about.

zerozero
06-09-2019, 05:17 AM
Bezos is not going to buy ATSG or ATLAS. He made it very clear when looking where to put the new HQs that the decision came down to being able to hire the best talent in the country. ACMI pilots are the bottom of the barrel in the pilot industry. 95% of them are not hirable at the majors for all sorts of reasons. Amazon will continue to contract out flying as along as they can. If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.

I agree with the conclusion, not with the logic. And at the end of the day it really doesn't matter. Amazon is a disruptive force in many different markets, and the pilot market will be just one more notch in Bezos's belt.

742Dash
06-09-2019, 06:23 AM
...If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.

LPT: This is a small industry. Best to not throw mud.

And here is a free history lesson. UPS used to be a crap job. FDX used to be a crap job. Airborne used to be a great job. As recently at 2012 pilots were beating down the door trying to get hired at Atlas. This industry is white water with lots of rocks.

And no Atlas pilot ever had to pay for his airplane's gas with his personal credit card.

point432
06-09-2019, 06:25 AM
Bezos is not going to buy ATSG or ATLAS. He made it very clear when looking where to put the new HQs that the decision came down to being able to hire the best talent in the country. ACMI pilots are the bottom of the barrel in the pilot industry. 95% of them are not hirable at the majors for all sorts of reasons. Amazon will continue to contract out flying as along as they can. If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.



Tell us how you really feel. I know a ton of guys that have escaped and all model citizens. This model citizen includes me.

Your ignorance shows with the fact that you must think its soooooo easy to get hired a major. Please share you infinite wisdom to getting hired.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

lear 31 pilot
06-09-2019, 06:34 AM
Bezos is not going to buy ATSG or ATLAS. He made it very clear when looking where to put the new HQs that the decision came down to being able to hire the best talent in the country. ACMI pilots are the bottom of the barrel in the pilot industry. 95% of them are not hirable at the majors for all sorts of reasons. Amazon will continue to contract out flying as along as they can. If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.

Really? I escaped Atlas a couple years ago and I know 100s of excellent model citizens over there trying to get out. Be careful what you say, especially when you have no clue.

CardboardCutout
06-09-2019, 06:41 AM
Do not feed the troll.

JonnyKnoxville
06-09-2019, 07:40 AM
I remember walking through the terminal as a little kid and seeing Southwest Airlines taxi by for the first time. I asked a legacy pilot about the airline with the funny paint job that I had never seen before. His somewhat angry response, "Some low cost bottom-feeder." "The pilots there can't get hired anywhere else." I asked why. He said, "most have criminal backgrounds, didn't go to college or they have DUIs." "Can you believe they don't even get a retirement over there?"

Although I was a little too young to really understand much of what he was saying, I got the gist of it. As I got a little older, I heard essentially the same thing about the pilots at FedEx and UPS from other pilots I spoke with.

Oh, how things change. That conversation has always stuck with me. Post September 2011, as the legacy carriers took massive hits to their CBAs, all I could think about were the "misfits" that were at the top of the industry.

Twin Wasp
06-09-2019, 08:05 AM
And the days of “buying a certificate” to start their own airline are long gone.

B. Transfer. A certificate issued under § 119.39 is not transferable and, unless sooner surrendered, suspended, or revoked, shall remain in effect indefinitely in accordance with § 119.61. However, when a person (as defined by 14 CFR part 1, § 1.1, which includes an individual and many types of organizations) holds a certificate, the person who owns or controls the organization may sell or transfer the organization to another person. Incident to such sale or transfer of the organization, the certificate becomes the property of the new owner.

woog315
06-09-2019, 10:59 AM
And the days of “buying a certificate” to start their own airline are long gone.

B. Transfer. A certificate issued under § 119.39 is not transferable and, unless sooner surrendered, suspended, or revoked, shall remain in effect indefinitely in accordance with § 119.61. However, when a person (as defined by 14 CFR part 1, § 1.1, which includes an individual and many types of organizations) holds a certificate, the person who owns or controls the organization may sell or transfer the organization to another person. Incident to such sale or transfer of the organization, the certificate becomes the property of the new owner.
That language definitely does not prevent a certificate from being sold, my dude

Twin Wasp
06-09-2019, 11:39 AM
The whole airline has to be sold, not just the framed letter on the wall.

Ihateusernames
06-09-2019, 01:30 PM
I remember walking through the terminal as a little kid and seeing Southwest Airlines taxi by for the first time. I asked a legacy pilot about the airline with the funny paint job that I had never seen before. His somewhat angry response, "Some low cost bottom-feeder." "The pilots there can't get hired anywhere else." I asked why. He said, "most have criminal backgrounds, didn't go to college or they have DUIs." "Can you believe they don't even get a retirement over there?"

Although I was a little too young to really understand much of what he was saying, I got the gist of it. As I got a little older, I heard essentially the same thing about the pilots at FedEx and UPS from other pilots I spoke with.

Oh, how things change. That conversation has always stuck with me. Post September 2011, as the legacy carriers took massive hits to their CBAs, all I could think about were the "misfits" that were at the top of the industry.


Thread creep. Funny how the SWA guy made out a **** load better than his legacy butt. Kind of funny.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Whistlin' Dan
06-10-2019, 01:38 PM
UPS used to be a crap job. FDX used to be a crap job. Airborne used to be a great job. As recently at 2012 pilots were beating down the door trying to get hired at Atlas. This industry is white water with lots of rocks. Don't forget Pan Am, Continental, and TWA. Even Flying Tigers was a career destination for some. Then it wasn't, then it sorta-was. Then it really-was again, but that came too late for those who had been on the fence about it before.

UPS was indeed, a "crap job." Mainly because it's flt ops were conducted much as Amazon's are today...as an operating unit that exits largely on paper. One cannot say they treated their employees badly because they really didn't have any employees. Their contractors may have, but they didn't. "Meh. Let 'em take up their problems with their respective companies. Not OUR problem."

FedEx in the early days under Fred Smith was not unlike DHL when Larry Hillblom still had a hand in running it. And FedEx's flt ops after Fred Smith dies are almost certain to become a lot more like DHL's are now. But that's a subject for another thread...

Amazon, as long as Jeff Bezos is alive and on the property, is not going to change it's business model. It's effectively firewalled itself from civic responsibility, labor discord, and from most labor laws in general. Amazon is not going to become the salvation of pilots who missed the brass ring of a job at a legacy carrier, or of those who actually prefer the relative serenity of flying at off-peak hours away from passengers and the hustle and bustle of airline terminals. Nor will Amazon bring salvation for warehouse workers, truck drivers, delivery drivers, or those who manage them. It's simply not in their corporate DNA to be that kind of company. And many American voters lack the will, the savvy, and/or the political influence to require it, and others like it, to be "that kind of company."

To carry forward your water analogy, "Pilots in the ACMI world are focused on the waves, when they should really be reading the swells"

Thanks for the reminder. And the warning...

gearslinger6
06-11-2019, 02:02 AM
Bezos is not going to buy ATSG or ATLAS. He made it very clear when looking where to put the new HQs that the decision came down to being able to hire the best talent in the country. ACMI pilots are the bottom of the barrel in the pilot industry. 95% of them are not hirable at the majors for all sorts of reasons. Amazon will continue to contract out flying as along as they can. If they start their own airline they will buy a certificate and hire their own pilots from the top tier of the industry, not a bunch of guys with DUIs on their records or teamsters that will cause more trouble than it is worth.

What’s a DUI? Is that one of those things you get for banging too many Romanian hookers? But seriously this six pack superpilot is hilarious.....say more stuff dude, we need some good entertainment!

Buzjob
06-11-2019, 04:23 AM
Don't forget Pan Am, Continental, and TWA. Even Flying Tigers was a career destination for some. Then it wasn't, then it sorta-was. Then it really-was again, but that came too late for those who had been on the fence about it before.

UPS was indeed, a "crap job." Mainly because it's flt ops were conducted much as Amazon's are today...as an operating unit that exits largely on paper. One cannot say they treated their employees badly because they really didn't have any employees. Their contractors may have, but they didn't. "Meh. Let 'em take up their problems with their respective companies. Not OUR problem."

FedEx in the early days under Fred Smith was not unlike DHL when Larry Hillblom still had a hand in running it. And FedEx's flt ops after Fred Smith dies are almost certain to become a lot more like DHL's are now. But that's a subject for another thread...

Amazon, as long as Jeff Bezos is alive and on the property, is not going to change it's business model. It's effectively firewalled itself from civic responsibility, labor discord, and from most labor laws in general. Amazon is not going to become the salvation of pilots who missed the brass ring of a job at a legacy carrier, or of those who actually prefer the relative serenity of flying at off-peak hours away from passengers and the hustle and bustle of airline terminals. Nor will Amazon bring salvation for warehouse workers, truck drivers, delivery drivers, or those who manage them. It's simply not in their corporate DNA to be that kind of company. And many American voters lack the will, the savvy, and/or the political influence to require it, and others like it, to be "that kind of company."

To carry forward your water analogy, "Pilots in the ACMI world are focused on the waves, when they should really be reading the swells"

Thanks for the reminder. And the warning...


That was a well written, insightful post.


Moderator, please remove this. It doesn't belong here.

midnightshuttle
06-11-2019, 08:50 AM
Nice post

Agreed that those here at ATI have missed the boat for the most part. Simple truth is that we will as a pilot group undercut anyone’s contract for the possibility of more business. We did it on the last one and will do it again. I don't vote like that but 75% do here, just a sad fact. Atlas wont fly for our wages neither will anyone else so eventually we will envelop most of the amazon ramp. If purp/brown wanna give up the business we’re ready.

Already getting our 76-300’s back into ETOPS and 77 is coming...

I think by fedex saying F U the industry is playing into amazon hands

l8fr82hub
06-11-2019, 09:43 AM
Nice post

Agreed that those here at ATI have missed the boat for the most part. Simple truth is that we will as a pilot group undercut anyone’s contract for the possibility of more business. We did it on the last one and will do it again. I don't vote like that but 75% do here, just a sad fact. Atlas wont fly for our wages neither will anyone else so eventually we will envelop most of the amazon ramp. If purp/brown wanna give up the business we’re ready.

Already getting our 76-300’s back into ETOPS and 77 is coming...

I think by fedex saying F U the industry is playing into amazon hands

Why are you still at ATI? Are you unwilling to give up that captain seat?

airbus300
06-11-2019, 10:51 AM
Nice post

Agreed that those here at ATI have missed the boat for the most part. Simple truth is that we will as a pilot group undercut anyone’s contract for the possibility of more business. We did it on the last one and will do it again. I don't vote like that but 75% do here, just a sad fact. Atlas wont fly for our wages neither will anyone else so eventually we will envelop most of the amazon ramp. If purp/brown wanna give up the business we’re ready.

Already getting our 76-300’s back into ETOPS and 77 is coming...

I think by fedex saying F U the industry is playing into amazon hands

What does the last email from the Chief Pilot reference? Line___ If you still work here....