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MrFriendly7
01-20-2019, 05:14 PM
https://www.forbes.com/sites/grantmartin/2019/01/19/spirit-pulls-ahead-of-american-and-united-in-new-airline-rankings/amp/?fbclid=IwAR08wOATITGyut4M_gyUb4_tvC3-b-lh9TWGoCWShx8h0WVh8b2gLAl3rRY


What you guys think about this?


Excargodog
01-20-2019, 05:16 PM
The LCCs are putting pressure on the legacies.

No question.

Aero1900
01-20-2019, 06:26 PM
The LCCs are putting pressure on the legacies.

No question.

Meanwhile, Frontier management is like, "Wait, you guys keep track of this sh*t?!"


GuardPolice
01-20-2019, 06:29 PM
The LCCs are putting pressure on the legacies.



No question.


Well..maybe two of them...


GP

Qotsaautopilot
01-20-2019, 06:49 PM
Yet we still voted in an industry trailing contract with no profit sharing. Yay us

Excargodog
01-20-2019, 08:42 PM
Yet we still voted in an industry :)trailing contract with no profit sharing. Yay us

Well, SOMEBODY has to be at the bottom....:o

ShyGuy
01-20-2019, 09:03 PM
Definitely have noticed an improved experience on Spirit compared to 4-6 years ago. Better on time performance, nicer FA attitudes, and most importantly the clientele seem to be normal-ish now.

drywhitetoast
01-21-2019, 05:30 AM
The LCCs are putting pressure on the legacies.

No question.

Yes, those Spirit a/c i see at the terminal in Heathrow is making me nervous. :rolleyes:

ropestart
01-21-2019, 05:53 AM
Yes, those Spirit a/c i see at the terminal in Heathrow is making me nervous. :rolleyes:

You can keep Heathrow my friend.

SUX4U
01-22-2019, 06:37 AM
You can keep Heathrow my friend.

And you can keep Myrtle Beach and Atlantic City! Deal?

OOfff
01-22-2019, 08:05 AM
Yes, those Spirit a/c i see at the terminal in Heathrow is making me nervous. :rolleyes:

Half or more of the legaciesí revenue is domestic. If you donít think a domestic carrier can apply pressure to them, you really donít know your industry.

ropestart
01-22-2019, 11:10 AM
And you can keep Myrtle Beach and Atlantic City! Deal?

Hey now, those are quality layovers!

sflpilot
01-22-2019, 11:36 AM
A sizable percentage of the public thinks that flying should be close to free and Spirit has cornered that market.

Silver02ex
01-22-2019, 01:34 PM
Half or more of the legaciesí revenue is domestic. If you donít think a domestic carrier can apply pressure to them, you really donít know your industry.

Spirt and Frontier already have. That's why the legacies started the "basic economy"

tyler durden
01-22-2019, 04:40 PM
Spirit is likely one if the best places to be headed to right now. Strong growth outlook with highly competitive costs, new orders, new contract, shorter upgrade times and better equipment than SW...

If I were WN management, I'd be concerned. Especially HR.

Tjamaica
01-22-2019, 04:58 PM
Spirit is likely one if the best places to be headed to right now. Strong growth outlook with highly competitive costs, new orders, new contract, shorter upgrade times and better equipment than SW...

If I were WN management, I'd be concerned. Especially HR.

Ha, Southwest HR is not worried nor should they be. That being said, I strongly agree, Spirit is a great spot to be right now. Lets keep the momentum going...

Qotsaautopilot
01-22-2019, 05:08 PM
Spirit is likely one if the best places to be headed to right now. Strong growth outlook with highly competitive costs, new orders, new contract, shorter upgrade times and better equipment than SW...

If I were WN management, I'd be concerned. Especially HR.

Second worst contract in the industry, upgrade time is comparable at delta and fed ex. Iíd say your career earnings would almost be guaranteed to be higher at any legacy or sw. Of course anything can happen.

Peacock
01-22-2019, 06:14 PM
Spirit is likely one if the best places to be headed to right now. Strong growth outlook with highly competitive costs, new orders, new contract, shorter upgrade times and better equipment than SW...

If I were WN management, I'd be concerned. Especially HR.

Youíll know that Spirit is viewed as a real threat when a bigger airline buys them.

AirbusA321Pilot
01-22-2019, 07:06 PM
Youíll know that Spirit is viewed as a real threat when a bigger airline buys them.

Sure hope so.

BeechedJet
01-22-2019, 08:20 PM
Spirit has the same cheese tray as United.

Basically weíre pretty much United already. Gimmie those CRT busses and itís confirmed.

Acquired not hired 2020.

galleycafe
01-22-2019, 08:24 PM
Youíll know that Spirit is viewed as a real threat when a bigger airline buys them.

Yes, please.

When do I start class?

Plane Coffee

Feng
01-23-2019, 09:18 AM
Yet we still voted in an industry trailing contract with no profit sharing. Yay us

What in the heck are you complaining about? I remember during the negotiating process, you were adamant about not working for less than your legacy counterparts. There is no better time than now..Blah blah blah. Then the TA came, you changed your tone to well the scope and disability made it worth while to not fight more for a potential $20-$30/hr more. You were in favor of this substandard contract that basically gave away EVERYTHING of value.

Now you're on here complaining about the fact that you have a industry trailing contract that you were for? Wtf?

dawgdriver
01-23-2019, 03:57 PM
Ha, Southwest HR is not worried nor should they be. That being said, I strongly agree, Spirit is a great spot to be right now. Lets keep the momentum going...

Looking at recent history, I would contend that HR's actions are evidence they might be concerned. Once the darling airline, WN could demand a pricey 737 type and have pilots lined up around the block (the type requirement allowed the FAA to approve a significantly reduced training footprint...$$$). Not no mo.

Requiring an $8K-$10K investment for the HOPE of an interview seems insanely arrogant in today's pilot market but that's how popular they were. Fast-froward to today and, after dropping the type requirement (3 years ago), they are now forced to lower the PIC experience requirements. Why? They aren't getting the quality/quantity of candidates.

Many factors to consider, but for those looking to start a flying career, WN doesn't seem quite so attractive: unpopular NB fleet type, domestic, multiple leg days, exceedingly long upgrade times, and reportedly, open time opportunitie$ have completely dried up. Never mind the international sex appeal of the Legacies and Cargo, who's NB FO pay scales are far better years 1-4, the ULCCs are catching up quickly. ULCCs have better equipment, quicker upgrades, even have day turns. As for growth and longevity, SW is showing it's age. No longer fun, folksy, and nimble, the corporate behemoth now carries huge overhead costs while trying to compete against low cost carriers employing the same tactics SW used against the Legacies.

Not to say WN isn't a good place to work; they have good schedules and rigs and will likely be around for a while. Just saying times are changing and, as this article points out, the Spirits of the world are catching up. Customers make decisions on price and ULCCs are tough to compete with. And let's face it, the differences in product quality are becoming tougher to discern.

2020 is their amendable date, I hope the hard working folks over there get a decent contract; they definitely deserve it. If history is any indication, or the current 6 years their mechanics have gone now, they're likely to be slogging it out for years to come. The company CEO is an accountant who's justifiably concerned about costs so I wouldn't get my hopes up. Meanwhile, understanding the supply/demand curve, Legacies pilots might continue to enjoy the trend of lucrative mid-contact enhancements, without even being asked. Realizing the dramatic effect of Legacy's impending massive retirements, SW HR should be concerned.

JMHO

Tjamaica
01-23-2019, 05:39 PM
Looking at recent history, I would contend that HR's actions are evidence they might be concerned. Once the darling airline, WN could demand a pricey 737 type and have pilots lined up around the block (the type requirement allowed the FAA to approve a significantly reduced training footprint...$$$). Not no mo.

Requiring an $8K-$10K investment for the HOPE of an interview seems insanely arrogant in today's pilot market but that's how popular they were. Fast-froward to today and, after dropping the type requirement (3 years ago), they are now forced to lower the PIC experience requirements. Why? They aren't getting the quality/quantity of candidates.

Many factors to consider, but for those looking to start a flying career, WN doesn't seem quite so attractive: unpopular NB fleet type, domestic, multiple leg days, exceedingly long upgrade times, and reportedly, open time opportunitie$ have completely dried up. Never mind the international sex appeal of the Legacies and Cargo, who's NB FO pay scales are far better years 1-4, the ULCCs are catching up quickly. ULCCs have better equipment, quicker upgrades, even have day turns. As for growth and longevity, SW is showing it's age. No longer fun, folksy, and nimble, the corporate behemoth now carries huge overhead costs while trying to compete against low cost carriers employing the same tactics SW used against the Legacies.

Not to say WN isn't a good place to work; they have good schedules and rigs and will likely be around for a while. Just saying times are changing and, as this article points out, the Spirits of the world are catching up. Customers make decisions on price and ULCCs are tough to compete with. And let's face it, the differences in product quality are becoming tougher to discern.

2020 is their amendable date, I hope the hard working folks over there get a decent contract; they definitely deserve it. If history is any indication, or the current 6 years their mechanics have gone now, they're likely to be slogging it out for years to come. The company CEO is an accountant who's justifiably concerned about costs so I wouldn't get my hopes up. Meanwhile, understanding the supply/demand curve, Legacies pilots might continue to enjoy the trend of lucrative mid-contact enhancements, without even being asked. Realizing the dramatic effect of Legacy's impending massive retirements, SW HR should be concerned.

JMHO

Yup, I see what you are saying. You make some very good points but they will still have plenty of quality candidates imo. Just think how absurd paying for a type sounds just for a chance at an interview...Times certainly have changed!

Peacock
01-23-2019, 05:49 PM
I think the movement at the legacies absolutely will put pressure on SWA to find pilots, and I certainly hope the next contract keeps pace with them and widens the gap with the ULCCís. I donít see them being as much of a threat, both because of the job and sheer volume of pilots needed by the legacies compared to smaller airlines.

Qotsaautopilot
01-24-2019, 09:52 AM
What in the heck are you complaining about? I remember during the negotiating process, you were adamant about not working for less than your legacy counterparts. There is no better time than now..Blah blah blah. Then the TA came, you changed your tone to well the scope and disability made it worth while to not fight more for a potential $20-$30/hr more. You were in favor of this substandard contract that basically gave away EVERYTHING of value.

Now you're on here complaining about the fact that you have a industry trailing contract that you were for? Wtf?

Initially yes with the bullet points. Then I read the scope language and it wasnít good enough to overcome the lack in pay and retirement so I voted against. The LTD (could always be better)is decent though and I do sleep a little easier with it and I do cash bigger checks now but the facts are the facts



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