Airline Pilot Forums

Airline Pilot Forums was designed to be a community where working airline pilots can share ideas and information about the aviation field. In the forum you will find information about major and regional airline carriers, career training, interview and job seeker help, finance, and living the airline pilot lifestyle.




135tankerdriver
01-23-2019, 12:37 PM
Little nervous about leaving AD non-current without a CJO. And just wondering has anyone known any military types whoíve been hired recently while non-current.

By the time I can get out it will be shy of two years out of a cockpit.

I have 3000+ military flight hours, 1,000 turbine IP hours and 1,000 turbine PIC. Safety experience and trained and a decent amount of volunteer work.

Thanks


Hacker15e
01-23-2019, 02:32 PM
It happens, but it is the exception rather than the rule. Pretty rare, even in this hiring environment.

Be prepared to go do a short stint at the regionals to get recurrent, polish up your resume with a successful run through a 121 training program and a new type rating, and learn how 121 flying works.

Yes, the pay sucks, but flying at the regionals isn't beneath you. Most importantly it will give you extremely valuable experience that will help at subsequent interviews and take some of the pressure off how much you'll have to learn in your *second* 121 training program (the one at your career-destination airline).

SaltyDog
01-23-2019, 04:54 PM
Little nervous about leaving AD non-current without a CJO. And just wondering has anyone known any military types who’ve been hired recently while non-current.

By the time I can get out it will be shy of two years out of a cockpit.

I have 3000+ military flight hours, 1,000 turbine IP hours and 1,000 turbine PIC. Safety experience and trained and a decent amount of volunteer work.

Thanks
Agree with Hacker15e
I went regionals many years ago during heavy furlough period, it kept me fresh when the hiring picked up again with the final destination carriers. The folks that went non current had to do the tour at the regional anyway, if plan that way, probably will be the ace that gets picked up by the major straight away :)
Best journeys


135tankerdriver
01-23-2019, 05:58 PM
Thanks for the input guys. Just heard that a major airline or two was hiring non-current military guys depending on their resume of course. If the rumors were true I would double down my efforts to try and get hired... go to job fairs, etc. but if itís not the case Iíd focus my energy elsewhere or perhaps stay AD until I hit 20. If anyone has gotten hired out of a cockpit shy of 24 months, which meets SWA minimums Iíd love to hear from you.

Hacker15e
01-23-2019, 06:30 PM
or perhaps stay AD until I hit 20

Although I'm a proponent of dudes sticking it out to 20 to grab retirement, I'll go on record to say that if you're ready to leave the AF, a short stint at the regionals to get recurrent is going to be a lot less asspain than several more years with Big Blue.

For some reason folks find flying at the regionals so unpalatable that they'll do all kinds of backflips to avoid it, and IMHO their efforts are wasted.

I retired with 3000+ hours in fighters, trainers, and ISR and non-current. I spent just over a year at the regionals before I got hired at my career airline, and thought that it was a great professional experience. It was a great no-stigs environment to ask stupid questions and make stupid mistakes that didn't also carry the risk of being where I wanted to spend my career if I did accidentally pee in the pool.

rickair7777
01-23-2019, 07:17 PM
Thanks for the input guys. Just heard that a major airline or two was hiring non-current military guys depending on their resume of course. If the rumors were true I would double down my efforts to try and get hired... go to job fairs, etc. but if it’s not the case I’d focus my energy elsewhere or perhaps stay AD until I hit 20. If anyone has gotten hired out of a cockpit shy of 24 months, which meets SWA minimums I’d love to hear from you.

I have heard that O6's and maybe senior O5's are now getting waived on recency requirements by some majors... since it's real hard for them to stay recent. I know two who got hired out of my command (career Navy AD at 25-30 years) who had no problem getting scooped up and who were long out of any cockpit. Not sure if the did any GA but were definitely not flying in the mil.

FlewNavy
01-24-2019, 01:17 PM
Thanks for the input guys. Just heard that a major airline or two was hiring non-current military guys depending on their resume of course. If the rumors were true I would double down my efforts to try and get hired... go to job fairs, etc. but if itís not the case Iíd focus my energy elsewhere or perhaps stay AD until I hit 20. If anyone has gotten hired out of a cockpit shy of 24 months, which meets SWA minimums Iíd love to hear from you.

Strength of resume is the key. The other common element about the relatively minimum/no currency hew hires seems to be O5/O6 RETIRED. I personally have not seen any evidence of someone that was separated getting a call without recent flying experience. Airlines may be getting tired of Mil Leave and USERRA - I haven't seen a retiree drop mil leave yet.

Strong resume usually means competitive hours and extensive leadership experience. Multiple T/M/S experience, leadership of large organizations, leading a community in a aircraft transition, weapons school IP, Graduated Squadron/Wing CO etc. Add to that multiple touch points with the airlines via job fairs, chief pilot meetings etc. Unless you have those boxes checked you are likely going to be considered relatively average in the pack.

Merle Dixon
01-24-2019, 01:17 PM
Little nervous about leaving AD non-current without a CJO. And just wondering has anyone known any military types whoíve been hired recently while non-current.

By the time I can get out it will be shy of two years out of a cockpit.

I have 3000+ military flight hours, 1,000 turbine IP hours and 1,000 turbine PIC. Safety experience and trained and a decent amount of volunteer work.

Thanks

How many years active-duty service do you have? If you have less than 15, I recommend bailing for the airlines (if a major wont hire you, hell yes go to a regional). If you have five or more years until your 20, and you stay until 20, you are giving up thousands of seniority numbers at DAL, UAL or AA. Even FedEx has massive hiring plans. SWA, not sure, anyone else have info of SWAs projected hiring the next 5 years?

Any Reserve or Guard interest? I have friends that left active duty at 16 and 17 years, got an airline job, got off probation and then via full-time orders, or an AGR position, and military leave, got their 20 year active pension.

PRS Guitars
01-24-2019, 04:50 PM
Just listen to Hacker, he knows what heís talking about. Get over your concerns and jump ship. It will likely be short lived, and youíll get 3 calls from majors instead of zero.

Blackhawk
01-26-2019, 07:32 AM
Although I'm a proponent of dudes sticking it out to 20 to grab retirement, I'll go on record to say that if you're ready to leave the AF, a short stint at the regionals to get recurrent is going to be a lot less asspain than several more years with Big Blue.

For some reason folks find flying at the regionals so unpalatable that they'll do all kinds of backflips to avoid it, and IMHO their efforts are wasted.

I retired with 3000+ hours in fighters, trainers, and ISR and non-current. I spent just over a year at the regionals before I got hired at my career airline, and thought that it was a great professional experience. It was a great no-stigs environment to ask stupid questions and make stupid mistakes that didn't also carry the risk of being where I wanted to spend my career if I did accidentally pee in the pool.

^^^^^ This. Regional pay and work rules are not what they were a few years ago. Find one with a base close by and good training. When I came off military leave and went through recurrent training there were about 6 military FW new hire pilots. Six months later the only one not picked up by a major was at the C-17 course.

135tankerdriver
01-26-2019, 05:32 PM
How many years active-duty service do you have? If you have less than 15, I recommend bailing for the airlines (if a major wont hire you, hell yes go to a regional). If you have five or more years until your 20, and you stay until 20, you are giving up thousands of seniority numbers at DAL, UAL or AA. Even FedEx has massive hiring plans. SWA, not sure, anyone else have info of SWAs projected hiring the next 5 years?

Any Reserve or Guard interest? I have friends that left active duty at 16 and 17 years, got an airline job, got off probation and then via full-time orders, or an AGR position, and military leave, got their 20 year active pension.

To answer your questions... by the time I can get out this October Iíll have right at 15 years of AD service. While Iím not opposed to going to a regional. I do have a wife and 3 kids to feed. So Iím factoring that into my decision as well as the odds that a recession will most likely happen sometime in the next five years which Iím assuming will slow hiring for a year or two (any one have thoughts on this). I donít need to be the richest guy in the graveyard and Iíd prefer to focus on what I think will give me the best QoL overall. And that might be working both the regionals and the guard/reserves until I can picked up by the majors but if I get out Iím leaning to just do guard/reserves until I can get current at least but I may just stay AD until 20. If we just had a recession my decision would be much easier but what Iím afraid of is by the time I can get picked up by a Major airlines, probably spring/summer of 2020, this economic expansion will be long in the tooth. The five years difference in seniority turns into four years difference due to having to get current and a recession that causes year or two of no hiring turns into two or three years difference in seniority to join the check of the month club. Not saying I wonít go to a regional, itís just that it makes my decision that much harder. Iím also assuming if I wait to get out Iíll just be a senior FO with a mil retirement when Iím 60 which isnít the worst thing in the world. Currently it looks like I may have a lot of options at the end of the day, some more risky, some more work and some more pay. I am extremely fortunate to have options but at least for me the decision to get out can be overwhelming especially without a job at a major airlines in hand and the possibility of a recession looming.

Sputnik
01-26-2019, 06:13 PM
It sounds like you are looking for reasons to not go airlines. And really want to stay in. Also that you want security, which staying in provides.

Nothing wrong with that. God knows someone needs to stay in. Unless you die in uniform, everyone gets out eventually--ensure you prep.

Recession, who knows. Sooner or later one will come. When and how bad? If I knew that I wouldn't be flying planes.

Don't forget retirements. Unless the majors want to shrink, they have to keep hiring to replace those forced to retire.

PRS Guitars
01-26-2019, 06:49 PM
It’s a leap of faith... Same for me in 2013, I was current, but the hiring was just starting to pick up back then, with lots of competition. I told my wife, we’re rolling the bones, we’ll either be a hero (hired at the front of the wave) or a goat (unemployed) I gave my separation notice with no jobs lined up. It was not easy, and was the most stressful time of my life. I was turned down for the reserve unit where I was stationed. Then picked up to the fly the same jet elsewhere about a month later. Got my US Airway (knowing it would actually be American) job offer 23 days before my terminal separation date.

I can now hold captain and make double what I would on active duty (as an FO), live where I want, and am much happier than I ever was on active duty.

Yes, it could have gone bad, and I feel very fortunate every day. If you can line up a reserve job, it makes it very doable. Prepare your wife and cut your budget to the bone (I’m talking no cable, never buying Starbucks, etc). I’m not going to lie, the first year was tough, I hated the job for awhile, made $40 an hour, commuted to both jobs. But it got better quickly.

I have a great wife and that makes a huge difference, she was on board. I sold her on the vision, and we were a team.

Hacker15e
01-27-2019, 05:24 AM
While I’m not opposed to going to a regional. I do have a wife and 3 kids to feed.

So did the rest of us who have made the jump and did a stint at the regionals. It requires some financial planning beforehand to make sure you can take care of your family during that part of the transition.

With 5 years left until retirement, and a plan to go to the airlines after leaving Big Blue (regardless of if now or then), and with the understanding that employment at the regionals is a realistic potential path to the job you eventually want, you should be preparing now by bulking up your savings account in preparation for those lean times.

Also ensure that your family is on board with the decision, too, because the transition will require some temporary belt-tightening that will impact them.

Just like with all military flying, you can't just have a Plan A in which you step directly from your AD job into a good paying major airline job. You have to have logical secondary and tertiary plans that you could actually execute if your main plan goes awry.

Since you're contemplating getting out *now*, I'd argue that if you don't currently have a financial cushion that you're prepared and willing to burn in a temporary low-paying job enroute to your career destination, you're already behind.

Yes, the regional route is a temporary financial hardship but it is a great way to get where you want to go if you're not current.

the possibility of a recession looming.

If "recession" is your #1 threat, then stay in until 20 and pick up that pension. That is the closest thing to a sure-thing that you're going to see anywhere in aviation and you're in the unique situation to be able to take advantage of it.

That being said, if you decide to stay in you are leaving 5 years of airline seniority, and the possibility of millions of dollars in career pay, on the table by waiting.

That's the bet we all have to decide the correct time to place.

Merle Dixon
01-27-2019, 11:25 AM
Recession? Maybe. But, keep in mind, without my sounding too dramatic: the largest airline pilot retirement wave in civil aviation history is just getting started. This has totally caught the idiot AF management off guard. I mean, who could have seen this coming :)? Recession or not, the airlines will have to continue hiring.

As others have typed, if you havenít started saving, you are way behind. If you delay the airline job 5 more years, you are giving up oodles of seniority, mountains of cash and QOL.

Good luck to you.



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