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View Full Version : Southern Air 737


mike sierra
01-25-2019, 02:30 PM
Hello Guys, the last company thread is current closed.

I got an offer to fly the 737 for Southern Air...not sure what do to

2000 TT, 500 Turbine SIC, college degree, no skeletons in closet and no red flags (I hope so)

I'm at a whole owned forever on reserve commuting...what kind of gets old, however if everything works out I should have a spot on AA in 10 years lol.

I'm a little familiar to ACMI operations...and the lack of operations some times. I'm trying to evaluate my decision...also, they told me the 737 is CVG based...so should I suppose is not a commutable position?? Home based like the 777 would for sure be a huge advantage.

Also, not sure if the pay would be really a raise...is it possible to fly above guarantee? What about upgrade times?

Anyone could help me to make an educate decision?

I'm aware of the current Atlas situation and the lack of a contract...not sure if it's a good bet going there hopping for an improvement soon


goinaround
01-25-2019, 02:37 PM
Worst job in aviation. You would regret this. Find a better regional if you have to bust a move....

JackStraw
01-25-2019, 02:40 PM
Hello Guys, the last company thread is current closed.

I got an offer to fly the 737 for Southern Air...not sure what do to

2000 TT, 500 Turbine SIC, college degree, no skeletons in closet and no red flags (I hope so)

I'm at a whole owned forever on reserve commuting...what kind of gets old, however if everything works out I should have a spot on AA in 10 years lol.

I'm a little familiar to ACMI operations...and the lack of operations some times. I'm trying to evaluate my decision...also, they told me the 737 is CVG based...so should I suppose is not a commutable position?? Home based like the 777 would for sure be a huge advantage.

Also, not sure if the pay would be really a raise...is it possible to fly above guarantee? What about upgrade times?

Anyone could help me to make an educate decision?

I'm aware of the current Atlas situation and the lack of a contract...not sure if it's a good bet going there hopping for an improvement soon

Youíll fit right in with the rest of the dummies who canít do a simple search to find information on the Atlas/Southern dump. So, come on over. Youíre guaranteed to regret it. No sympathy for you.


TiredSoul
01-25-2019, 02:41 PM
Ignore posters like him ^^^ please.
I know Iíll be nailed to a cross for saying this but if you have your ATP why not apply with Atlas?
New contract will be anywhere from 6 months to 2-3 years away and of the trend continues youíll have 350-400 below you after the first year and 500-550 after the second year.
I would suggest the 74 over the 76 as the 74 seems to fly more above guarantee.

JackStraw
01-25-2019, 02:43 PM
Ignore posters like him ^^^ please.
I know I’ll be nailed to a cross for saying this but if you have your ATP why not apply with Atlas?
New contract will be anywhere from 6 months to 2-3 years away and of the trend continues you’ll have 350-400 below you after the first year and 500-550 after the second year.
I would suggest the 74 over the 76 as the 74 seems to fly more above guarantee.
Yes, listen to this ^guy^! He’s 100% right. Come on over. A guaranteed job at a Legacy is overrated. Take the short cut. You’re the exception. You’re special!

No sympathy for you.

TiredSoul
01-25-2019, 02:49 PM
Congratulations JS, you just made it to my ignore list.

JackStraw
01-25-2019, 02:50 PM
Congratulations JS, you just made it to my ignore list.

Oh no!!! Good luck in Recruiting

flyboy94
01-25-2019, 02:55 PM
What is the typical routes the 777 flies? Or is it completely random!

mike sierra
01-25-2019, 03:06 PM
Youíll fit right in with the rest of the dummies who canít do a simple search to find information on the Atlas/Southern dump. So, come on over. Youíre guaranteed to regret it. No sympathy for you.

The fact I would need to share the cockpit with people like you are a good reason to not go there...

The reason I asked for more information is because I searched and want to make an educate decision

JackStraw
01-25-2019, 03:08 PM
The fact I would need to share the cockpit with people like you are a good reason to not go there...

The reason I asked for more information is because I searched and want to make an educate decision

There are dozens of Southern threads.

MarkThyme
01-25-2019, 04:26 PM
Worst job in aviation. You would regret this.

Funny thing is you can find people on these very forums saying pretty much that exact thing about their own airline, including legacies and cargo carriers, so I'm not sure this assessment is all that helpful.

One size does not fit all.

The fact is that the OP has a decent shot at moving to a better job before the 10-year flow to AA. If Southern is a better fit in the meantime for whatever reason, so be it.

CaptDave
01-25-2019, 05:03 PM
Axe vs ask. Tis the question.

goinaround
01-25-2019, 05:32 PM
Funny thing is you can find people on these very forums saying pretty much that exact thing about their own airline, including legacies and cargo carriers, so I'm not sure this assessment is all that helpful.

One size does not fit all.

The fact is that the OP has a decent shot at moving to a better job before the 10-year flow to AA. If Southern is a better fit in the meantime for whatever reason, so be it.

Maybe if you lived near CVG I could see an argument. But he insinuated that he did not like commuting. Commuting to a non home-based ACMI sucks.

filejw
01-25-2019, 06:09 PM
Hello Guys, the last company thread is current closed.

I got an offer to fly the 737 for Southern Air...not sure what do to

2000 TT, 500 Turbine SIC, college degree, no skeletons in closet and no red flags (I hope so)

I'm at a whole owned forever on reserve commuting...what kind of gets old, however if everything works out I should have a spot on AA in 10 years lol.

I'm a little familiar to ACMI operations...and the lack of operations some times. I'm trying to evaluate my decision...also, they told me the 737 is CVG based...so should I suppose is not a commutable position?? Home based like the 777 would for sure be a huge advantage.

Also, not sure if the pay would be really a raise...is it possible to fly above guarantee? What about upgrade times?

Anyone could help me to make an educate decision?

I'm aware of the current Atlas situation and the lack of a contract...not sure if it's a good bet going there hopping for an improvement soon

Mike

The biggest issue with the Souther 737 operation is the lack of flying time doing the night fright hub and spoke thing. I think they fly 300 hrs a year if they want 3500 hours for a Capt thats 3 years and to get say 1000 hrs PIC is another 3 years. I'm sure even at your commuter things will move faster than that.

mike sierra
01-25-2019, 06:38 PM
Mike

The biggest issue with the Souther 737 operation is the lack of flying time doing the night fright hub and spoke thing. I think they fly 300 hrs a year if they want 3500 hours for a Capt thats 3 years and to get say 1000 hrs PIC is another 3 years. I'm sure even at your commuter things will move faster than that.

Thanks for your answer..that's the information I was looking for to help me


Also appreciate everyone that took their time to answer me

DC8DRIVER
01-25-2019, 07:52 PM
Ignore posters like him ^^^ please.
I know I’ll be nailed to a cross for saying this but if you have your ATP why not apply with Atlas?
New contract will be anywhere from 6 months to 2-3 years away and of the trend continues you’ll have 350-400 below you after the first year and 500-550 after the second year.
I would suggest the 74 over the 76 as the 74 seems to fly more above guarantee.

Despite the fact that you have obviously already applied to Atlas, the Atlas boosters seem to want you to apply again!! So, some of the replies you'll get pay as much attention to the reality at Atlas as they do to your initial request. This just goes to show you that people can say just about anything on these pages regardless of the truth.

The reality is that there will be no contract for several more years. The company and the union don't even have a framework agreement for the timeline for negotiating a contract, let alone any idea of how long the negotiations would take after they finally establish a schedule and begin negotiations.

As for growth, the seniority lists are not merged and will not be merged until the contract is signed, so the growth rate will absolutely NOT be in the hundreds. The latest Southern seniority list shows a growth of about 30 pilots in 2017 and 55 pilots in 2018. A clue about Southern as a destination would be that over 90% of the movement on the southern list comes from attrition rather than retirements.

Also, since the lists remain separate, you can't just jump from 73 to 74 to 76. You'd be stuck on the Southern list on the 73 or the 77 if you hold out for that.

As for the flying, the 737 flies out from the hub at between 3 - 6 am. You'll do one or two short legs to a daytime layover and then return to the hub around midnight. This is when you'll discover the indescribable joy of quality hub time with a 3 - 5 layover in the hub with all the other walking dead vying for one of the hand full of bunks or lounge chairs. Then you get to try to amp your eyeballs back open long enough to fly a leg or two into the dawn to yet another daytime layover.

It's heaven on Earth. C'mon on over.

Oh and BTW, I'll assume that you've already seen the pay rates and realize that there'll be no pay raise for the first THREE years ... It's all there in black and white for you to see .

Reactivity
01-25-2019, 08:33 PM
Maybe if you lived near CVG I could see an argument. But he insinuated that he did not like commuting. Commuting to a non home-based ACMI sucks.

Commuting to a non-home-based anything - ACMI or otherwise - is no picnic.

JonnyKnoxville
01-26-2019, 05:46 AM
First Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $45,881
Second Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,222
Third Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,557

Pulling all-nighters 17 nights a month while only building 200 hours of flight time a year, priceless.

TiredSoul
01-26-2019, 09:18 AM
Refreshing to see that some useful information did make it through the noise filter.

Asiabound
01-26-2019, 07:46 PM
ACMI is tough, make sure you're ready for it. Hub turns suck, they really do.

I wouldn't be too worried about flying a 737 vs. RJ. I'd focus on getting somewhere that puts in the left seat quickly. That route used to be okay because the upgrade was quick, then Atlas bought them and the upgrades slowed down.

My bet is about a year on you will have buyers remorse. 737 vs RJ SIC won't make much of a difference on your resume unless you want to work overseas. Having a purchased ticket to work is nice for sure, but the schedule will be MUCH worse.

jpncrjdriver
01-26-2019, 09:13 PM
There have been many post stating the 737 at Southern is a less than good place to hang your hat... I am NOT at Southern so no first hand knowledge... You have all the building blocks to get to a Legacy or other Tier II carrier with a AA Flow as a maybe insurance policy... If you are young under 30 I would recommend you sit tight and apply/update and update at the Carriers of choice and not go to a Less than desirable carrier... Just my 10 Yen worth... Best of luck...

Kampai

JonnyKnoxville
01-27-2019, 03:44 AM
First Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $45,881
Second Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,222
Third Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,557

Pulling all-nighters 17 nights a month while only building 200 hours of flight time a year, priceless.

I apologize but I just realized I made an error in first year pay as first year guarantee is 50 hours (not 62 hours). The correct pay is:

First Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $38,240
Second Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,222
Third Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,557

captjns
01-27-2019, 04:27 AM
I apologize but I just realized I made an error in first year pay as first year guarantee is 50 hours (not 62 hours). The correct pay is:

First Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $38,240
Second Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,222
Third Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,557

Wow... impressive! All that and a B737 type rating too.:eek:

Turboprop
01-28-2019, 12:57 AM
Worst job in aviation. You would regret this. Find a better regional if you have to bust a move....




^

|




what he said!

sandstorm
01-28-2019, 05:00 PM
The 73 at Southern may not pay much, but I hear it is a real chill and laid back lifestyle if you do decide to take the job.

atpcliff
01-28-2019, 05:44 PM
Hello Guys, the last company thread is current closed.

I got an offer to fly the 737 for Southern Air...not sure what do to
I would strongly recommend NO.

2000 TT, 500 Turbine SIC, college degree, no skeletons in closet and no red flags (I hope so)

I'm at a whole owned forever on reserve commuting...what kind of gets old, however if everything works out I should have a spot on AA in 10 years lol.
It will be a LOT sooner than that, especially if you apply everywhere, including AA. AA has hired some pilots from their own regionals, outside the flow.

I'm a little familiar to ACMI operations...and the lack of operations some times. I'm trying to evaluate my decision...also, they told me the 737 is CVG based...so should I suppose is not a commutable position?? Home based like the 777 would for sure be a huge advantage.
You will have Gateway Travel, so you just show up at your local "Gateway" airport, and show them your boarding pass.
The 777 will lose Home Basing soon, and go to Gateway Travel instead...Gateway Travel is not as good as Home/Gateway Basing.

Also, not sure if the pay would be really a raise...is it possible to fly above guarantee? What about upgrade times?
The pay is pitiful. I think they are upgrading everyone, so they have more incentive to stay, but you don't fly much, so it takes a long time if you are well below PIC mins.

Anyone could help me to make an educate decision?

I'm aware of the current Atlas situation and the lack of a contract...not sure if it's a good bet going there hopping for an improvement soon
This is how it is:
1-Atlas 747
2-Southern 777
3-Atlas 767
25-Southern 737.
Atlas 767 could be number one if you live in CVG, or want to move there, and just do domestic hub turns.
Note: Atlas does passenger flying, and are buying more passenger planes.

ACMItrash
01-29-2019, 01:52 AM
This is how it is:
1-Atlas 747
2-Southern 777
3-Atlas 767
25-Southern 737.
Atlas 767 could be number one if you live in CVG, or want to move there, and just do domestic hub turns.
Note: Atlas does passenger flying, and are buying more passenger planes.


Southern now that is funny! Heard they had 1 talked into a class of 10. How did they find 1 guy?

WhipWhitaker
01-29-2019, 02:06 AM
Southern now that is funny! Heard they had 1 talked into a class of 10. How did they find 1 guy?

You heard wrong, The 73 classes have been steadily 5-10.

boeingdvr
01-29-2019, 01:02 PM
You heard wrong, The 73 classes have been steadily 5-10.

Not quite. We had a 777 class with 6. 2 dropped out after day one.

Two classes ago we had 1 on the 737 and I believe the most recent had 6-7. Before that it was in the 3-5 range.

Southern Air. Come fly nights for the rest of your life !!

Knobcrk1
01-29-2019, 01:28 PM
The 73 at Southern may not pay much, but I hear it is a real chill and laid back lifestyle if you do decide to take the job.

Obviously this is recruiting but in the off chance it’s not, how can night flying or reserve for 17 nights in a row in cvg be chill lifestyle? Even if you lived in CVG that’s worse than working at Home Depot.

The way I look at it, I’m sure the pilot group there is full of guys that can’t get hired anywhere along with 23 year olds that have the 737-400 on their computer background. Just stay away.

boeingdvr
01-29-2019, 02:14 PM
Dude. Itís totally chill and those 65 year old 737-400ís with 7m cycles never have MELís.

atpcliff
01-29-2019, 07:40 PM
Atlas 767 pays a LOT more than Southern 737...and the last 767 class had ONE new hire in it.

There is a reason that only one person showed up for an Atlas 767 class...

And, we had an Atlas/Southern interview group today:
Two people showed up...

CallmeJB
01-30-2019, 07:09 AM
Atlas 767 pays a LOT more than Southern 737...and the last 767 class had ONE new hire in it.

There is a reason that only one person showed up for an Atlas 767 class...

And, we had an Atlas/Southern interview group today:
Two people showed up...

Everyone loves to crow about how our newhire classes aren't full. Nobody ever talks about all the cancelled flights from lack of crews.

Why do you suppose that is?

boeingdvr
01-30-2019, 08:22 AM
Everyone loves to crow about how our newhire classes aren't full. Nobody ever talks about all the cancelled flights from lack of crews.

Why do you suppose that is?

We donít XLD flights. Itís not something you can track on FlightAware like a PAX carrier.

However - we do run them several hours to days late. I personally have seen several
fully loaded amazon birds ( just in the last week ) throughout the country sit for hours on end with no crew to fly them.

Ever order anything on Prime and wonder why itís not on time. Itís sitting in Stockton CA with no crew to fly the jet.

Amazonís biz model itís to get your crap out ASAP. If I need something ASAP. Iíll choose FedEx.

CallmeJB
01-30-2019, 09:15 AM
We donít XLD flights. Itís not something you can track on FlightAware like a PAX carrier.

However - we do run them several hours to days late. I personally have seen several
fully loaded amazon birds ( just in the last week ) throughout the country sit for hours on end with no crew to fly them.

Ever order anything on Prime and wonder why itís not on time. Itís sitting in Stockton CA with no crew to fly the jet.

Amazonís biz model itís to get your crap out ASAP. If I need something ASAP. Iíll choose FedEx.
Don't mistake crew scheduling and travel incompetence for being understaffed. There were reserves sitting in ONT and CVG all this past week.

JackStraw
01-30-2019, 09:28 AM
Don't mistake crew scheduling and travel incompetence for being understaffed. There were reserves sitting in ONT and CVG all this past week.

The are currently 10 upcoming flights that are unstaffed amazon. That ain’t Travel or Scheduling failure.

Birdsmash
01-30-2019, 11:49 AM
The are currently 10 upcoming flights that are unstaffed amazon. That ainít Travel or Scheduling failure.

Whoop whoop! Thread drift, Thread drift. Last I checked Southern doesnít fly for AMZN. I know itís easy to get distracted by all the 🐿 running around.

JonnyKnoxville
01-30-2019, 11:57 AM
Everyone loves to crow about how our newhire classes aren't full. Nobody ever talks about all the cancelled flights from lack of crews.

Why do you suppose that is?

If you have some data to share, I think we would all love to crow about cancelled flights due to lack of crews too!

CallmeJB
01-31-2019, 11:24 AM
If you have some data to share, I think we would all love to crow about cancelled flights due to lack of crews too!

I don't know of ANY scheduled flights that were cancelled due to lack of crews with no other contributing cause. We just haven't gotten there yet (unfortunately).

Now... flights/customers that were never scheduled, perhaps because of lack of crews? If only any of us had access to data like that; it might be helpful to our cause (but be careful... because it might not).

dorgham72
02-04-2019, 05:09 PM
is there commitment or you can work there for a year get the type and leave ??

boeingdvr
02-04-2019, 06:18 PM
is there commitment or you can work there for a year get the type and leave ??

You absolutely can do that. However, I have heard of a high failure rate very recently. Just be careful, a failed 121 check ride due to MGMTís poor training could ruin your career.

Is it really worth it ??

All the airlines are pulling RJ FOís. Itís not like a 737 type does much these days.

atpcliff
02-04-2019, 11:50 PM
Everyone loves to crow about how our newhire classes aren't full. Nobody ever talks about all the cancelled flights from lack of crews.

Why do you suppose that is?

It is easy to find out how many were/were sched to be in class.

It is not easy to find out how many charter flights/long term contracts were rejected by the company for lack of pilots.

And, we cannot readily get any info about flights that were cancelled, had extended delays, or were outsourced...

I understand there is the schedule, but I don't spend my waking hours watching our sched unfold, so I have no idea what the delay/extended delay situation is.

atpcliff
02-05-2019, 06:27 AM
I don't know of ANY scheduled flights that were cancelled due to lack of crews with no other contributing cause. We just haven't gotten there yet (unfortunately).

Now... flights/customers that were never scheduled, perhaps because of lack of crews? If only any of us had access to data like that; it might be helpful to our cause (but be careful... because it might not).

We have had many, many flights that were outsourced...to Kalitta, Western Global, etc., etc. due to lack of crews.

atpcliff
02-05-2019, 06:31 AM
is there commitment or you can work there for a year get the type and leave ??

No commitment: Some pilots have left in INDOC, others left during systems, others during sims, others during OE, and still others have left after OE...some right after. And, we have had a good number leave right after (or during) Capt upgrade...

Feel free to PM me if u have questions. I am at Atlas, and so don't know as much about Southern, but we will all be in the same boat sooner or later...

ypSUHlanti
02-18-2019, 03:23 PM
How do they decide which class you get? If they put you in the 737 class, and you wanted the 777 could you wait until there is a class date for the 777?

JonnyKnoxville
02-18-2019, 05:27 PM
How do they decide which class you get? If they put you in the 737 class, and you wanted the 777 could you wait until there is a class date for the 777?

New hire pilots are holding out for what they want because there is a three-year seat lock. That is, if you don't get what you want, you will be stuck for a minimum of three years in your unwanted position.

atpcliff
02-19-2019, 01:05 AM
How do they decide which class you get? If they put you in the 737 class, and you wanted the 777 could you wait until there is a class date for the 777?

In order of pay:
Atlas 747
Southern 777
Atlas 767
Southern 737.

You may want to hold out for the Atlas 747, if possible...

dwight3
02-19-2019, 04:43 AM
I still can't believe there are people seriously considering working at Atlas/Southern. Nearly everyone is miserable there and is trying to get out as fast as they can. If you're leaving a regional to go there you're going to regret that decision very quickly after arriving.

There are so many better options out there. The Atlas/Southern pilots don't even get to vote on their own contract. An arbitrator decides every time. That's why they're now the lowest paid pilots in the industry and will likely not have a new contract for years to come and when they do they will get whatever the biased arbitrator decides to give them.

dba74
02-19-2019, 01:41 PM
In order of pay:
Atlas 747
Southern 777
Atlas 767
Southern 737.

You may want to hold out for the Atlas 747, if possible...

A successful Southern interviewee can wait for Atlas classes (74 or 76)?

WhipWhitaker
02-19-2019, 02:35 PM
A successful Southern interviewee can wait for Atlas classes (74 or 76)?

HR is targeting specific people for the 737. If you are selected for the 74, 77, or 76, Iíd assume you could ask to wait for something else. That being said, the hiring process is such a crapshoot at this place I doubt there is an actual ďpoolĒ so to speak. HR probably just calls the rotating people on the top of the stack to desperately fill the next class on the schedule.

atpcliff
02-19-2019, 07:20 PM
A successful Southern interviewee can wait for Atlas classes (74 or 76)?

You can always ask for what you want, and see what happens.

From what we have heard and read, HR at Atlas/Southern is having a harder and harder time getting pilots.

They just started buying candidates airline tickets and paying for one night in the hotel for the interview.

Turbine1
02-19-2019, 08:38 PM
They just started buying candidates airline tickets and paying for one night in the hotel for the interview.

Why? Because they think they can hoodwink the uninformed or unbelieving of the conditions into accepting a job at AAWW. A ticket and a room is a small price to pay to ďput bodies in seatsĒ for the 6 months before they realize what a mistake they made and can resign for a job at a real airline.

Applying to Atlas/Southern is committing career suicide and the word is out; hence fewer show for class with each passing month.

The largest operator of 747s in the world and now even some turboprop 135 operators have better compensation and QOL. Truly sad.

TiredSoul
02-20-2019, 06:12 AM
I believe there are people seriously considering working at Atlas/Southern. Some are miserable there and they should try to get out as fast as they can. If you're leaving a regional to go there you're going to enjoy that decision very quickly after arriving.

There are some better options out there. The Atlas/Southern pilots did not get to vote on their own contract.
An arbitrator decided last time. That's why they're now the lowest paid pilots in the industry and may not not have a new contract for some time and when they do they may get whatever the arbitrator decides to give them.

Corrected for correctness.
No charge.

TeamSasquatch
02-20-2019, 12:09 PM
The largest operator of 747s in the world and now even some turboprop 135 operators have better compensation and QOL. Truly sad.

I find this interesting! It is true that Ameriflight, Key Lime, Alpine, FRE, Emlire and such pay more. I can see how a Vagabond with zero holding them down could fit well into the 747 program. But, that model canít sustain the operation?

Turbine1
02-21-2019, 08:51 AM
I find this interesting! It is true that Ameriflight, Key Lime, Alpine, FRE, Emlire and such pay more. I can see how a Vagabond with zero holding them down could fit well into the 747 program. But, that model canít sustain the operation?

It will sustain it long enough to get to the next downturn in the pilot hiring cycle. The company is banking that the amalgamation language in our scope will be affirmed by the arbitrator by then ( maybe ruled on as soon as this Fall ). If so, AAWW will never have to engage in good faith negotiations or have any future CBA pass a vote. Amazon and DHL will have their labor costs locked in at the lowest in the industry for decades to come.

hav3atps
02-22-2019, 04:05 PM
First Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $45,881
Second Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,222
Third Year Gross Pay (Before Deductions) - $59,557

Pulling all-nighters 17 nights a month while only building 200 hours of flight time a year, priceless.

1st. year pay on the page shows 61hrs x $80 x 12 = $58,560

Maybe somthing I'm missing..

thesandbox
02-22-2019, 04:26 PM
1st. year pay on the page shows 61hrs x $80 x 12 = $58,560

Maybe somthing I'm missing..


about 3 months of training pay

hav3atps
02-22-2019, 04:36 PM
about 3 months of training pay

What is the pay during training. Not finding it.. Thanks

dwight3
02-22-2019, 04:57 PM
1st. year pay on the page shows 61hrs x $80 x 12 = $58,560

Maybe somthing I'm missing..

50 hours guarantee the first year, not 61. Training pay for the first 3-4 months is about 2k a month. You'd literally make more than double that amount during your first year at a regional airline and get way more flight time and get a captain upgrade and start building that TPIC time and have flow to a legacy carrier.

Southern is about the worst career decision a pilot could make at this time. Their contract is from 2011. All of the regionals and practically every other airline have contracts that are reflective of the pilot shortage today but not Atlas/Southern.

Globemaster2827
02-22-2019, 06:08 PM
about 3 months of training pay

This has been done before... But...

Try 4 months of training pay since they're running a puppy mill and OE is backed up. So... $6,400 for the first 4 months.
You'll go to training for 2 months which you don't get paid for. So a 50 hour month for your Proficiency Check and we'll say 55 hours for the Proficiency Training. So for those 6 months we're at... $14,695.

Then you'll call in sick 1 month... 50 hours. Now we're at $18,645 for 7 months.

IF you don't call in sick a 2nd time, take vacation or have a relative die you'll average 70 hours a month for the other 5 months. That's $27,650 for those months. So that's $46,295 for the year with no working extra. It also doesn't count Per Diem.

That's what you'd make on Atlas on the 747. On the 737 at Southern I doubt they're ever breaking guarantee. So those 5 months at 70 hours would be significantly less... Probably 55 hours or so...

I'm sure people will chime in on my numbers.

hav3atps
02-22-2019, 06:36 PM
50 hours guarantee the first year, not 61. Training pay for the first 3-4 months is about 2k a month. You'd literally make more than double that amount during your first year at a regional airline and get way more flight time and get a captain upgrade and start building that TPIC time and have flow to a legacy carrier.

Southern is about the worst career decision a pilot could make at this time. Their contract is from 2011. All of the regionals and practically every other airline have contracts that are reflective of the pilot shortage today but not Atlas/Southern.

Is this page not valid?
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/southern_air

I'm just getting the numbers from there.

JonnyKnoxville
02-22-2019, 06:45 PM
First Year Pay

Month 1-4
$1,600 each month

Total: $6,400

Month 5-12
$3,980 each month ($79.60 X 50 Hour Guarantee)

Total: $31,840

Grand Total: $38,240 Gross Pay (before taxes and deductions)



Second Year Pay

Month 1-12

$4,935.20 ($79.60 X 62 Hours)

Grand Total: $59,222.40 Gross Pay (before taxes and deductions)

X58DeltaDriver
02-22-2019, 06:54 PM
I have seen the 50 hours for the first year at Atlas. Does that apply at Southern as well? I havent seen that on their page here on APC.

hav3atps
02-22-2019, 07:11 PM
I have seen the 50 hours for the first year at Atlas. Does that apply at Southern as well? I havent seen that on their page here on APC.

Me neither.
I'm just getting the numbers from here:

https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/southern_air

Not sure where the other numbers are coming from..

WacoQCF
02-22-2019, 09:40 PM
Southern now has most of the same pay and work rules as Atlas. 737 pay at Southern is far less than 747 pay at Atlas due to being paid based on gross weight % of a 747.

Having near 90% no show rates for 767 classes, and 60% no show rates for 747 classes. Training and Type Ride failures are increasing which are a negative brand on your entire career. Nearly 40% of new hires in 2019 have quit.

Upgrades are at a trickle over the past 2 years. Best guess is 7 years for a 747 FO to upgrade, probably longer for recent hires.

These are facts, not union drum beating.

Globemaster2827
02-22-2019, 10:10 PM
First Year Pay

Month 1-4
$1,600 each month

Total: $6,400

Month 5-12
$3,980 each month ($79.60 X 50 Hour Guarantee)

Total: $31,840

Grand Total: $38,240 Gross Pay (before taxes and deductions)



Second Year Pay

Month 1-12

$4,935.20 ($79.60 X 62 Hours)

Grand Total: $59,222.40 Gross Pay (before taxes and deductions)

Funny how we're posting the actual numbers and nobody WANTS to believe it. Yeah... Your number is what you're guaranteed. My number is probably what it'd work out as on the 747 at Atlas.

Then someone posts a link to APC that has nothing to do with your contract...

dwight3
02-22-2019, 10:36 PM
Is this page not valid?
https://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airlines/cargo/southern_air

I'm just getting the numbers from there.

That page has a mix of information from pre and post LOA so yes that page is not valid because it is inaccurate in many ways. The hourly pay rates are correct though.

First year guarantee is now 50 hours since the LOA was signed and training pay dropped to $1600/month from $2000. The LOA signed last year actually caused a pay decrease for the first year at Southern in some areas like the two I just mentioned.

hav3atps
02-23-2019, 07:43 AM
That page has a mix of information from pre and post LOA so yes that page is not valid because it is inaccurate in many ways. The hourly pay rates are correct though.

First year guarantee is now 50 hours since the LOA was signed and training pay dropped to $1600/month from $2000. The LOA signed last year actually caused a pay decrease for the first year at Southern in some areas like the two I just mentioned.

Was just trying to get some clarification.

Not good news.

Thank you..

hav3atps
02-23-2019, 08:30 AM
I know, ass kicking coming my way but anyone else interviewing 3/27?

Riverside
02-23-2019, 08:51 AM
I know, ass kicking coming my way but anyone else interviewing 3/27?

You go rock that interview....

Birdsmash
02-23-2019, 08:54 AM
Upgrades are at a trickle over the past 2 years. Best guess is 7 years for a 747 FO to upgrade, probably longer for recent hires.

These are facts, not union drum beating.

True ^^^ for the Atlas side of the house. If you are going to post under “Southern Air 737” why don’t you post what the upgrade time is on that fleet? Geeez, it’s like I’m reading a story by CNN, or a tweet from POTUS, where only the portions of the facts that stear the narrative are part of the story.

dwight3
02-23-2019, 09:02 AM
True ^^^ for the Atlas side of the house. If you are going to post under ďSouthern Air 737Ē why donít you post what the upgrade time is on that fleet? Geeez, itís like Iím reading a story by CNN, or a tweet from POTUS, where only the portions of the facts that stear the narrative are part of the story.

I didn't realize recruiters worked on weekends.

hav3atps
02-23-2019, 09:19 AM
You go rock that interview....

Will do! 'cause I rock!

Birdsmash
02-23-2019, 09:42 AM
I didn't realize recruiters worked on weekends.

Im far from a recruiter. However, if I thought taking the other side of the trade would benefit my fellow SouthernAir pilots I’m quite sure I could increase the pile of interviewees and new hires.

I’m just not going to let a few Atlas pilots (most are outstanding individuals) start posting misleading or half-truths on another airline’s threads. Did you notice I didn’t intervene with the previous CBA or pay discussions? Because it was correct. Stick to the truth...it’s sad enough.

dwight3
02-23-2019, 09:53 AM
Im far from a recruiter. However, if I thought taking the other side of the trade would benefit my fellow SouthernAir pilots Iím quite sure I could increase the pile of interviewees and new hires.

Iím just not going to let a few Atlas pilots (most are outstanding individuals) start posting misleading or half-truths on another airlineís threads. Did you notice I didnít intervene with the previous CBA or pay discussions? Because it was correct. Stick to the truth...itís sad enough.

Trying to create friction between the Atlas and Southern pilots while recruiting for Southern... definitely a management stooge/recruiter.

Riverside
02-23-2019, 10:31 AM
Will do! 'cause I rock!

That's why you are interview at an amazing company.

Globemaster2827
02-23-2019, 10:39 AM
You go rock that interview....

Does he really need to? Are there people who are qualified to work at Southern or Atlas who don't pass the interview? I'm talking within the last year...

Phoenix21
02-23-2019, 11:50 AM
Funny how we're posting the actual numbers and nobody WANTS to believe it. Yeah... Your number is what you're guaranteed.

Yikes! Atlas year 1+2 mmg is as much as a RJ FO makes in their first 18 months at an AA Wholly Owned regional.

hav3atps
02-23-2019, 07:29 PM
That's why you are interview at an amazing company.

Remember, grammar is your friend...

DC8DRIVER
02-23-2019, 08:20 PM
Im far from a recruiter. However, if I thought taking the other side of the trade would benefit my fellow SouthernAir pilots Iím quite sure I could increase the pile of interviewees and new hires.

Iím just not going to let a few Atlas pilots (most are outstanding individuals) start posting misleading or half-truths on another airlineís threads. Did you notice I didnít intervene with the previous CBA or pay discussions? Because it was correct. Stick to the truth...itís sad enough.

According to the latest SAI Master pilot Seniority List 12/15/18, the 737 captain upgrade time is over three years and the 777 upgrade times are at around 9 years now.

Birdsmash, since I honestly don't know, can you answer these questions here, please?

What are the minimum times required to upgrade to Captain on the 737 at SAI?

Next, how many years would it take a new hire to gain those required hours with the normal 737 schedules assuming they had only the required bare minimum 500 hours in a 121 regional jet (with no PIC) when they were first hired?

Also, if Southern has 5 737's why do only four show up on the Hawk scheduling page (this usually includes planes that are in heavy MX)?

Is it because of manning issues? (It looks like you have only 47 total 737 pilots (CA + FO) to man 5 planes ...)

And, last, are the posted 737 annual pay amounts correct: 1st year 38.2, 2nd year 59.2? (hint: I know this one).

Also is it true that THIRD year pay is ALSO 59.2?

Riverside
02-24-2019, 05:51 AM
Remember, grammar is your friend...

Meh...It's the internet, you'll learn. Let us know how your interview goes. Can't wait to hear happy results.



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