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View Full Version : Atlas 767 went down in Houston


FmrPropCapt
02-23-2019, 11:00 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/6abc.com/amp/crews-responding-to-cargo-jet-crash-in-trinity-bay/5153229/


gearslinger6
02-23-2019, 11:02 AM
Anyone have any info?

Prayers for the families.....

MD-11Loader
02-23-2019, 11:03 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/abc13.com/amp/crews-responding-to-cargo-jet-crash-in-trinity-bay/5153229/

Not much info out yet. My thoughts are with the entire Atlas family.


No Land 3
02-23-2019, 11:09 AM
I hope everyone made it out

FmrPropCapt
02-23-2019, 11:10 AM
-7,000fpm out of 3,000ft. Absolutely horrible

Legacy500
02-23-2019, 11:12 AM
The Federal Aviation Administration issued an Alert Notice (ALNOT) on Atlas Air Flight 3591 after losing radar and radio contact with the Boeing 767 approximately 30 miles southeast of Houston George Bush Intercontinental Airport. The aircraft was flying from Miami to Houston.

FlyJay
02-23-2019, 11:21 AM
Not to speculate, but flight data showed their speed below 10,000ft to be well above 300kts. Possible in-flight cargo fire?

sailingfun
02-23-2019, 11:26 AM
Not to speculate, but flight data showed their speed below 10,000ft to be well above 300kts. Possible in-flight cargo fire?

Always possible, you would however have expected them to communicate the issue.

FlyJay
02-23-2019, 11:29 AM
Always possible, you would however have expected them to communicate the issue.

Looks like a pretty nasty line of thunderstorms passed over the airport just as they were on approach.

saxman66
02-23-2019, 11:29 AM
Wow, my this appears to be right out in front of my parents old house just outside Anahuac. I think I could almost see their old house on one of the news videos. This doesn't look good.:(

Globemaster2827
02-23-2019, 11:29 AM
Always possible, you would however have expected them to communicate the issue.

If the VVI posted at 3000 feet were true it could be a stall or a fire... Or a Flight Control issue. I'm so upset right now. I hope none of my friends were on board.

MD11Fr8Dog
02-23-2019, 11:31 AM
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4240&stc=1&d=1550953887

gearslinger6
02-23-2019, 11:33 AM
Anyone interested in the live feed hereís the link...


https://www.click2houston.com/news/boeing-767-cargo-jet-crashes-into-trinity-bay-3-people-aboard-faa-says

MD11Fr8Dog
02-23-2019, 11:33 AM
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4241&stc=1&d=1550954001

simuflite
02-23-2019, 11:36 AM
That debris field...
Echoes of SWR111.
RIP

MoarAlpha
02-23-2019, 11:38 AM
Prayers for everyone involved. Really terrible the way it appears to have gone down...

MD11Fr8Dog
02-23-2019, 11:43 AM
https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4242&stc=1&d=1550954556

PotatoChip
02-23-2019, 11:45 AM
deleted.

...

Gammon89
02-23-2019, 11:46 AM
Deleted....

PotatoChip
02-23-2019, 11:48 AM
Not circling 120, showing altitude plot showing dive and speed is the other line

Yeah. I figured that out. Thanks. Deleted comment.

Unbelievable. I feel sick thinking about it.
Heartfelt sympathies to all Atlas folks and friends and family.

No Land 3
02-23-2019, 12:00 PM
One of the pilots was a friend of mine :(

2992set
02-23-2019, 12:02 PM
prayers for the families and friends.

ASpilot2be
02-23-2019, 12:02 PM
One of the pilots was a friend of mine :(

Sorry for your loss :(

brn2fly1
02-23-2019, 12:03 PM
One of the pilots was a friend of mine :(

Sorry No Land 3

Gspeed
02-23-2019, 12:03 PM
One of the pilots was a friend of mine :(

Condolences from Delta. Have names been released? I still havenít heard back from my buddy....

simuflite
02-23-2019, 12:03 PM
Did they fly right into the cell?

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune.org-vbulletin/596x545/download_7aec9978b7777f505f1ee68ec2842082ea61007e. png

MoarAlpha
02-23-2019, 12:04 PM
Condolences from Delta. Have names been released? I still haven’t heard back from my buddy....

Not released, but available online with simple searching.

1800 RVR
02-23-2019, 12:10 PM
Prayers and condolences to the family and friends! So sorry for your loss. We freight dogs are just one, big family.

hockey27
02-23-2019, 12:13 PM
prayers for the families and friends

md11pilot11
02-23-2019, 12:13 PM
If you go to LiveATC KIAH approach archives at 1830z the 4 minute mark approach letís them know that there is light to heavy precip and if they need to deviate to let them know. Then at 8 minutes they give a call that goes unanswered and shortly after that approach begins to ask aircraft if they are picking up and ELT thatís all I could get from the archives.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MelT
02-23-2019, 12:14 PM
Awful news. Condolences to the families and fellow employees.

jake cutter
02-23-2019, 12:19 PM
Awful news. Condolences to the families and fellow employees.



This. So sorry guys.

BMEP100
02-23-2019, 12:20 PM
Flight aware data shows pretty slow heading change and fairly constant ground speed out of 10000, but vertical speed at -7000fpm when it stopped tracking at 3000’.

Doesn’t look like a spin.

OOTSK
02-23-2019, 12:20 PM
I feel so sick right now. God, please be with the crew and they're Families.

Name User
02-23-2019, 12:21 PM
Seriously sick to my stomach right now and I don't know the crew personally. Prayers for the families.

aewanabe
02-23-2019, 12:25 PM
Heartsick. Condolences for their families and everyone over at Atlas.

UBA727
02-23-2019, 12:27 PM
Thoughts and prayers for the family of this crew and the entire Atlas family!

LNL76
02-23-2019, 12:31 PM
Heartbreaking. I know a few former Omni and NAA guys at Atlas. Hope they're ok. Condolences to the crew lost and to their families and friends.:(

Hacker15e
02-23-2019, 12:33 PM
If you go to LiveATC KIAH approach archives at 1830z the 4 minute mark approach let’s them know that there is light to heavy precip and if they need to deviate to let them know. Then at 8 minutes they give a call that goes unanswered and shortly after that approach begins to ask aircraft if they are picking up and ELT that’s all I could get from the archives.

About 6:25 they ask to "go on the West side" and approach tells them there are "a bunch of departures right at ya..." and then they step on each other while Approach is telling them the plan.

100LL
02-23-2019, 12:35 PM
Just looked on cnn and all they had was stupid political crap in big red with this crash an after thought in a tiny headline below. Had this been an airline crash or a mash shooting with only 2 dead as they call it it takes up the whole page with super bold letters. Stupid media and their priorities.

MoarAlpha
02-23-2019, 12:37 PM
If you go to LiveATC KIAH approach archives at 1830z the 4 minute mark approach letís them know that there is light to heavy precip and if they need to deviate to let them know. Then at 8 minutes they give a call that goes unanswered and shortly after that approach begins to ask aircraft if they are picking up and ELT thatís all I could get from the archives.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kiah/KIAH-App-Feb-23-2019-1830Z.mp3

Giant 3591 @ 4 minutes.

GoJuice
02-23-2019, 12:38 PM
Just looked on cnn and all they had was stupid political crap in big red with this crash an after thought in a tiny headline below. Had this been an airline crash or a mash shooting with only 2 dead as they call it it takes up the whole page with super bold letters. Stupid media and their priorities.

I did the same. Not a single national media outlet showing coverage of it.

FlyJay
02-23-2019, 12:43 PM
I did the same. Not a single national media outlet showing coverage of it.

Fox10News has a facebook live feed of the crash site/recovery efforts.

JungleJetDriver
02-23-2019, 12:50 PM
Prayers to the families of each crew member and the entire Atlas family.

AimHigh1
02-23-2019, 12:53 PM
I did the same. Not a single national media outlet showing coverage of it.

Fox News had it.

742Dash
02-23-2019, 12:53 PM
I did the same. Not a single national media outlet showing coverage of it.

There are no dramatic pictures.

Floobs
02-23-2019, 01:00 PM
If the VVI posted at 3000 feet were true it could be a stall or a fire... Or a Flight Control issue. I'm so upset right now. I hope none of my friends were on board.

Could be a few more things even more worrisome.

CaptDave
02-23-2019, 01:02 PM
Prayers to the families of those lost and the entire Atlas family.
Wx a factor? Possible turbulence leading to structural failure?

Phoenix21
02-23-2019, 01:04 PM
Could be a few more things even more worrisome.

Taken from a post on another site...

My condolences to the Atlas family.

Techpilot88
02-23-2019, 01:05 PM
Are there normally 3 crew operating a 767 for Atlas or was one of the occupants a jumpseater?

flysooner9
02-23-2019, 01:08 PM
Sounds like possibly a Mesa pilot jumpseating.

Techpilot88
02-23-2019, 01:11 PM
Sounds like possibly a Mesa pilot jumpseating.


How terribly sad.

Castle Bravo
02-23-2019, 01:15 PM
Video shows Amazon livery on the debris.

deftone
02-23-2019, 01:15 PM
Are there normally 3 crew operating a 767 for Atlas or was one of the occupants a jumpseater?

They were reporting it was a Mesa jumpseater earlier. Donít know if that was ever confirmed.

Learflyer
02-23-2019, 01:15 PM
Taken from a post on another site...

My condolences to the Atlas family.

Looks a little more interesting than "light to heavy precip." But wx is basically subjective anyway.

deftone
02-23-2019, 01:16 PM
Video shows Amazon livery on the debris.

It was confirmed to be one of the Amazon birds earlier.

Cheddar
02-23-2019, 01:17 PM
Heartbreaking. My sincere condolences to the family and friends and of course, Godspeed to the crew.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

GuardPolice
02-23-2019, 01:19 PM
Taken from a post on another site...



My condolences to the Atlas family.


This image appears to be west of the crash site. From everything Iíve seen it was in the extreme northeastern corner of the bay near Anahuac. Thatís probably 8-10 miles east of Baytown as you see on your image.


GP

Macjet
02-23-2019, 01:20 PM
This image appears to be west of the crash site. From everything Iíve seen it was in the extreme northeastern corner of the bay near Anahuac. Thatís probably 8-10 miles east of Baytown as you see on your image.


GP

The radar image is time stamped as 1238. Was the crash at 1245?

bidnez
02-23-2019, 01:20 PM
Does anyone have the names of the crew members on board?

GuardPolice
02-23-2019, 01:22 PM
The radar image is time stamped as 1238. Was the crash at 1245?


All Iíve seen with regard to 1245 is thatís when it was reported missing. So, Iím also assuming there were several minutes passing after it actually crashed to when it was reported.


GP

93Sierra
02-23-2019, 01:24 PM
Not posting names but Capt was an ex XJT guy, FO ex Mesa and correct a Mesa jumpseater. Clear skies and tailwinds my friends

Riverside
02-23-2019, 01:25 PM
Does anyone have the names of the crew members on board?

Yes.

Filler

Macjet
02-23-2019, 01:25 PM
All Iíve seen with regard to 1245 is thatís when it was reported missing. So, Iím also assuming there were several minutes passing after it actually crashed to when it was reported.


GP

The radar info shows the target in drift mode at 1253 with no returns.

terks43
02-23-2019, 01:28 PM
Blue skies and tailwinds. Condolences to the families. Make sure your loved ones know it every day.

GuardPolice
02-23-2019, 01:30 PM
The radar info shows the target in drift mode at 1253 with no returns.


The ATC feed verifies they were deviating for weather so I donít want to sound like Iím discarding weather as a potential factor. I read a local account of someone not far from but also not a witness to the crash who said the storms werenít exceptionally bad. Iíll be very surprised if the storms were the sole factor in this tragic crash.


GP

Arliss
02-23-2019, 01:31 PM
**

I have no connection to Atlas other than tons of people from my airline have gone there. But it's still painful when these things happen.

m3113n1a1
02-23-2019, 01:31 PM
Really?!?

Glad you said it, I was thinking the same thing.

Horrible news. Anxiously awaiting to find out if my Atlas buddies are okay. Condolences to everyone involved :(

Toby Flenderson
02-23-2019, 01:32 PM
RIP crew. It is devastating.

MX727
02-23-2019, 01:33 PM
LINKK1 with VFR overlay:

tohellandback
02-23-2019, 01:35 PM
Were there any reports of microbursts in the area? So sad.

Saafer
02-23-2019, 01:36 PM
Blue skies and tailwinds. Condolences to the families. Make sure your loved ones know it every day.

Echoed from those of us at Purple.

tengssuuciurta
02-23-2019, 01:37 PM
At this point the speculation isnít appropriate.

m3113n1a1
02-23-2019, 01:39 PM
At this point the speculation isnít appropriate.

Exactly...

EMBFlyer
02-23-2019, 01:46 PM
Praying for the entire Atlas family tonight.

One of my best friends is a 767 Captain over there and I don't think I took a breath until he responded to my text that he was ok. This one hits way too close to home for me.

week
02-23-2019, 01:50 PM
Perhaps the best way to show respect/condolences is to not Monday-morning QB todayís events based off speculation and FlightAware... surprised this even needs to be said.

My heart goes out to the families affected.

MX727
02-23-2019, 01:52 PM
At this point the speculation isnít appropriate.


EXACTLY right!

Scoop
02-23-2019, 01:53 PM
At this point the speculation isn’t appropriate.




MOD NOTE - please do not speculate on this. Many Atlas Pilots and families may be reading this and it probably will not help. Lets be respectful.


Thank You

Whatmeworry
02-23-2019, 01:56 PM
What he said!!!

hilltopflyer
02-23-2019, 02:18 PM
Prayers are with their families.

weekendflyer
02-23-2019, 02:39 PM
Heartbreaking, tailwinds forever...

forrealyall
02-23-2019, 02:42 PM
My condolences to the families and friends of the crew.

Fair skies and tailwinds.

I know a good number of people in ops at Atlas and I hope they have the resources they need too. It's hard there too.

shroomwell
02-23-2019, 02:43 PM
Truly, fate is the hunter. Godspeed fellow aviators.

Wings1856
02-23-2019, 02:49 PM
Our sincere and heart-felt thoughts and prayers to the ATLAS family. God Bless and Fly West brothers.
from the ATI family.

AYLflyer
02-23-2019, 02:50 PM
Absolutely stunned to see this. RIP to those lost and condolences to the Atlas family. :(

Bidderswede
02-23-2019, 03:04 PM
My condolences to families and friends.
And I agree.. the speculations should not be posted here or anywhere else at this point..

USMCFLYR
02-23-2019, 03:07 PM
Terrible!

Have to call my Atlas buddies and get an answer back! :(

Jma313
02-23-2019, 03:26 PM
Prayers to the families. This could have easily been anyone of us. Donít take a single day for granted anyone. Tailwinds to the crew.

stevecv
02-23-2019, 03:29 PM
So hard to hear this news. Thoughts are with Atlas and those affected.

bcpilot
02-23-2019, 03:35 PM
Itís so selfish to see if oneís friends are ok..
And I am guilty of that as well...

The lost crew was someoneís friend and family..

RIP for the departed souls...

My heartfelt condolences for the families..

May God Almighty give the the families, the courage to bear this loss....

Dhood84
02-23-2019, 03:41 PM
Iím shocked at some of the responses on here, especially the speculation less than 12hrs post crash. Like someone said, NONE of us are immune to this happening. Keep the thoughts of the crew and their families close. 3 families donít have husbands, fathers, friends coming home again. Let the feds figure out what happened first, then we can have a discussion.

DH

flyboy730
02-23-2019, 03:41 PM
Heartbreaking. Prayers and love to the families and friends. RIP

brownie
02-23-2019, 03:42 PM
RIP fellow aviators and sincere condolences to our Atlas brothers from your family at Brown.

BrownDoubles
02-23-2019, 03:46 PM
RIP fellow aviators and sincere condolences to our Atlas brothers from your family at Brown.

Echoed... sad day. God bless those left to carry the torches.

ZeroTT
02-23-2019, 03:54 PM
Itís so selfish to see if oneís friends are ok..
And I am guilty of that as well...

The lost crew was someoneís friend and family..

RIP for the departed souls...

My heartfelt condolences for the families..

May God Almighty give the the families, the courage to bear this loss....

Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for thee

https://www.gradesaver.com/donne-poems/study-guide/for-whom-the-bell-tolls

klondike
02-23-2019, 03:55 PM
Turns out I knew the pilot in the jumpseat.
I had flown with him.
Heartbreaking news
R.I.P. S.

UAL T38 Phlyer
02-23-2019, 03:59 PM
I was flying as a jumpseater about the time this happened. While departure was calling out one or two moderate or extreme returns east of the field, it appeared to be false ground returns. Nothing significant on our radar, and we were above most of the tops at 5000. Weather was not very tall, and not really convective.

The air mass WAS turbulent, but mostly light to moderate.

Fairwinds. Rest in peace. :(

Markdhc8
02-23-2019, 03:59 PM
And I'm sorry about your friend. I truly am.

Scoop
02-23-2019, 04:00 PM
If someone posts something improper, please do not quote them - just report it.


Thanks

lionflyer
02-23-2019, 04:00 PM
Let the NTSB do their job. Could have been any one of us

GogglesPisano
02-23-2019, 04:03 PM
Let the NTSB do their job. Could have been any one of us

Truer words ...

God bless all aboard and their loved ones.

Captjim
02-23-2019, 04:15 PM
"Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth,
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed and joined the tumbling mirth of sun-split clouds -
and done a hundred things You have not dreamed of -
wheeled and soared and swung high in the sunlit silence.
Hovering there I've chased the shouting wind along
and flung my eager craft through footless halls of air.
"Up, up the long delirious burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace,
where never lark, or even eagle, flew;
and, while with silent, lifting mind I've trod
the high untrespassed sanctity of space,
put out my hand and touched the face of God."

RIP Gentlemen

Rolf
02-23-2019, 04:16 PM
Condolences to the families and Atlas. Just heartbreaking.

Floobs
02-23-2019, 04:21 PM
Yes.

Filler

Can anyone pm me the initials at least? I have a few friends there that match that description.

Flaps8posrate
02-23-2019, 04:30 PM
Godspeed into His arms. Prayers for all affected.

BigTime
02-23-2019, 04:37 PM
The FlightAware track doesn't look like they were near any of the major thunderstorm cells.

BravoTango
02-23-2019, 04:38 PM
The FlightAware track doesn't look like they were near any of the major thunderstorm cells.



Thatís not a reliable indicator


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Fast90
02-23-2019, 04:40 PM
Nickel in the grass. Godí s speed crew.

jackcarls0n
02-23-2019, 04:42 PM
Sad to just have read about the crash. Prayers and thoughts for the crew and their family.

SDFflyboy
02-23-2019, 04:53 PM
Thoughts and prayers to the families involved. Tailwinds to the crew. This is certainly a tragedy.

AC560
02-23-2019, 04:57 PM
God speed and prayers for all those left behind.

V12Merlin
02-23-2019, 05:11 PM
I find it difficult to type this with tears welling up in my eyes but,

May God Almighty hold the crew of Atlas Air 3591 and their family and friends in the small of His hand.

Theyíre in a much better place now.



From a Purple ATR Capt.

N914FJ
02-23-2019, 05:18 PM
Condolences from Compass. Truly a sad day.

skyrider1015
02-23-2019, 05:39 PM
Condolences from your fellow Teamsters 1224 brothers and sisters at Allegiant Air.

Lenticularis
02-23-2019, 05:42 PM
Everyone take a moment of silence please for the families, share a heartfelt thought for them. Our condolences from Endeavor.




Those speculating should consider removing the comments.

fr8av8r
02-23-2019, 05:43 PM
Prayers and condolences from a recently retired Purple pilot.

jDSTJD
02-23-2019, 06:03 PM
So so sorry to hear this. Iíve been upset all day and checking in regularly for updates. Having lived in the Houston area for a long time friends still there are very shaken up. Condolences to the crewís families, friends and colleagues. :(

Delta2heavy
02-23-2019, 06:07 PM
so heartbroken. Thoughts are with families of those involved. We are all atlas today

Ihateusernames
02-23-2019, 06:14 PM
We all compare paychecks, schedules etc. we all unfortunately come to realization we all could have been one of these guys/gals when stuff like this happens. We all get/got/will be where we are at our specific airlines/companies based on skill/luck/timing. We may think we know which one got us there but in reality we donít. **** happens in this industry we canít explain sometimes. **** happens fast and sometimes it wins. Letís not assume they messed up because, we here are all the best pilots in the plane. I love we all step in the cockpit knowing it. Letís for a second realize we are not always and sometimes ď**** winsĒ not but at the same time we all have to fly tonight or tomorrow and the people with us and below us demand we are the best. Letís remember those who lost their lives today and hope some how what happened today will eventually lead us to learn something or teach us something we didnít know before they died.


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captjns
02-23-2019, 06:19 PM
May the winds on the tail be gentle. May the skies be alway be fair and never give way to grey. May sun never set on their eternal journey west. Go in peace... go in peace.

Dashdrvr
02-23-2019, 06:23 PM
From your your brothers and sisters here at Horizon. Our hearts hurt for the crew, their families and Atlas. May the grace of God be with you in this darkest hour.

l8fr82hub
02-23-2019, 06:37 PM
My deepest condolences to the family and friends of the crew. I've lost friends in two accidents at previous jobs and truly understand how gutwrenching this is for the friends. I can't even begin to imagine how tough this is for the families. I'll be praying for all.

Crown
02-23-2019, 06:41 PM
knowing several pilots at Atlas, my heart was quite heavy this afternoon. Peace and love to the Atlas family. At the end of the day, we're all pilots. RIP brothers.

BMEP100
02-23-2019, 06:54 PM
No matter the cause, no matter the fault, this is certain.

In the loss of these airmanís lives we as professionals, and perhaps the industry will learn and benefit from their misfortune.

For that we should be grateful to them all.

zondaracer
02-23-2019, 07:01 PM
Very tragic. Condolences. Itís hard just to type this.

midnightshuttle
02-23-2019, 07:33 PM
Truly a sad day in the ACMI world.

Lets hope for thier sake and the rest of us that the cause is identitied and corrected whatever it may be.

DC8DRIVER
02-23-2019, 07:40 PM
For as much as we all scrap and swipe and squawk on these pages, it is days like today that should remind us that we are all brothers and sisters engaged in a very serious business.

Be safe.

Take nothing for granted.

Arrive alive.

Taco280AI
02-23-2019, 08:18 PM
Sad deal all around and best wishes to the families involved.

Jet757
02-23-2019, 08:30 PM
Rest in peace freight dogs. We're all a family. God bless.

AirBear
02-23-2019, 08:33 PM
Terrible tragedy, thoughts with the families.

VASAviation put together the ground track, flight data, and ATC radio calls:

https://youtu.be/0cn58iVuzBY

Jungle Jim
02-23-2019, 09:02 PM
No matter what happened today, there is a very inherent risk we all take when we push the thrust levers forward. We do it because this is what we know and love. We could choose to do anything, but this is our calling. Like I told my FA's tonight, there isn't a pilot in this world that doesn't ever give his ship up without a fight. Whatever happened, I know just like any of us, they wouldn't have given up. I have no doubt these brave men did the same. We all want to go home at the end of the day. No need for speculation. It's very sad day when any of our brothers or sisters lose their lives doing something they ultimately love more than anything. It could happen to any of us at any time. Never know when your number is going to be called. And clearly, it can happen in an instant - especially when you least expect it. Tailwinds and blue skies...

B757200ER
02-23-2019, 09:09 PM
Terrible news. Very sad for the Atlas family and the tragic loss of 3 fellow pilots.

flyboy730
02-23-2019, 10:39 PM
I knew the captain very well from our XJT days. He was a great person and a blast. The only thing I can think about right now is running into him last year in CVG and having one of those 2am burritos there at the hub. Just heartbreaking and I am so sorry to each family involved.

Prayers to the crewís family and friends from the ATI family.

Tailwinds and clear skies my friends.

303flyboy
02-23-2019, 11:25 PM
No matter what happened today, there is a very inherent risk we all take when we push the thrust levers forward. We do it because this is what we know and love. We could choose to do anything, but this is our calling. Like I told my FA's tonight, there isn't a pilot in this world that doesn't ever give his ship up without a fight. Whatever happened, I know just like any of us, they wouldn't have given up. I have no doubt these brave men did the same. We all want to go home at the end of the day. No need for speculation. It's very sad day when any of our brothers or sisters lose their lives doing something they ultimately love more than anything. It could happen to any of us at any time. Never know when your number is going to be called. And clearly, it can happen in an instant - especially when you least expect it. Tailwinds and blue skies...

Beautifully said and exactly my thoughts. Give your families a kiss today tell them you love them and put everything else in perspective. Blue skies friends

Whatmeworry
02-24-2019, 02:11 AM
This accident hit pretty close to home for me. 2 out 3 on board were part of the Mesa family and I personally flew with one of them several times. Was one of the coolest captains I remember flying with, I was a relative new FO and a little high strung for the first part of my 121 flying. I remember this Guy was as cool as the other side of the pillow and as a relative newbi it was fun to fly with such a chill guy. Condolences to the families....

727574drvr
02-24-2019, 03:26 AM
No matter what happened today, there is a very inherent risk we all take when we push the thrust levers forward. We do it because this is what we know and love. We could choose to do anything, but this is our calling. Like I told my FA's tonight, there isn't a pilot in this world that doesn't ever give his ship up without a fight. Whatever happened, I know just like any of us, they wouldn't have given up. I have no doubt these brave men did the same. We all want to go home at the end of the day. No need for speculation. It's very sad day when any of our brothers or sisters lose their lives doing something they ultimately love more than anything. It could happen to any of us at any time. Never know when your number is going to be called. And clearly, it can happen in an instant - especially when you least expect it. Tailwinds and blue skies...
Jim well said. If you fly 121 long enough, there will be a few experiences that afterwards we like to think we lived another day because of our skill, experience, a good crew, good CRM, etc etc. Maybe it just wasn't our time. But, one thing I always keep in mind; many of my brothers and sisters lost their life so I can learn from their silent voices. There have been a few times when during the debrief at the bar when we laugh about it, then the stare we give each other knowing the flip side of the coin could have been a tragedy of horrendous proportions. Godspeed to the crew of Giant 3591, you and yours are in our hearts and prayers eternally.

ZeroTT
02-24-2019, 03:43 AM
From another site - collection of commercial ADS-B tracking hits.

Globemaster2827
02-24-2019, 05:09 AM
From another site - collection of commercial ADS-B tracking hits.

If that's true then those descent rates at the end are higher than a Tactical Descent on a C-17 with the thrust reversers out. That can't be a Tstorm... It's still way too early and who knows if any of this stuff is accurate. Witnesses claimed it was in a pretty nose low attitude.

ReserveCA
02-24-2019, 05:13 AM
Prayers........ GODSPEED

rickair7777
02-24-2019, 05:14 AM
Rip... :(

Blackhawk
02-24-2019, 05:18 AM
If that's true then those descent rates at the end are higher than a Tactical Descent on a C-17 with the thrust reversers out. That can't be a Tstorm... It's still way too early and who knows if any of this stuff is accurate. Witnesses claimed it was in a pretty nose low attitude.
Yeah. Who knows. Something went terribly wrong very quickly. An experienced crew. Not even a mayday call.

Joachim
02-24-2019, 05:28 AM
Whatever it was it looks like it happened around second 98 with a reversion from a steady descent at -2500fpm to a climb to an uncontrolled dive.

A320fumes
02-24-2019, 05:36 AM
If that's true then those descent rates at the end are higher than a Tactical Descent on a C-17 with the thrust reversers out. That can't be a Tstorm... It's still way too early and who knows if any of this stuff is accurate. Witnesses claimed it was in a pretty nose low attitude.

I never enjoyed those...What was the limitation, "Do not exceed 20,000 fpm rate of descent"?

BravoTango
02-24-2019, 05:38 AM
Iím going to have to call bs on those charted numbers.



Whatís a ďcharted numberĒ


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blinkpilot182
02-24-2019, 05:44 AM
Hi everyone. An Atlas Pilot here. The outpouring of support and kind sentiments on this thread has been beautiful, overwhelming and much appreciated. A lot of us are viewing this thread for that very reason. It offers a sense of calm in the confusion. Please hold off on the speculation. It doesnít help. Those aviators were our colleagues and friends. And we are all still out here flying these airplanes. Thank you again for all of the support.


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JackStraw
02-24-2019, 05:47 AM
Whatís a ďcharted numberĒ


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Numbers on a chart.

BravoTango
02-24-2019, 05:56 AM
Numbers on a chart.



They are the raw data points broadcast by the airplane, they arenít opinion, they are what they are


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Globemaster2827
02-24-2019, 05:56 AM
Iím going to have to call bs on those charted numbers.

51,000 fpm isnít logical.

I agree. I don't know if you could reach that if you nosed down and fire walled the throttles.

Globemaster2827
02-24-2019, 05:57 AM
They are the raw data points broadcast by the airplane, they arenít opinion, they are what they are


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That stuff isn't official.

ZeroTT
02-24-2019, 05:59 AM
I’m going to have to call bs on those charted numbers.

51,000 fpm isn’t logical.

The data is integrated from multiple sources and a second's uncertainty in the time between two altitudes can make some wonky numbers.

But it seems clear that something abruptly changed from a normal descent to a VERY abnormal one.

add: 51000 fpm is 510 kts. Seems plausible for straight down.

aviator493
02-24-2019, 06:13 AM
There is a short video showing the airplane before going down. The footage doesnít look over dramatic. Also, no way to confirm itís the actual aircraft or not.


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JackStraw
02-24-2019, 06:15 AM
There is a short video showing the airplane before going down. The footage doesnít look over dramatic. Also, no way to confirm itís the actual aircraft or not.


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Itís not the aircraft. Itís a SAR helicopter and the story is peak fake news.

satpak77
02-24-2019, 06:53 AM
Itís not the aircraft. Itís a SAR helicopter and the story is peak fake news.

:rolleyes:

"you can't make this stuff up"

CaptDave
02-24-2019, 07:05 AM
As much as weíd all like to know what happened, official isnít official until itís official.

Read the comments from the guy who shot the video. He was there AFTER.

ďlord.bravo PaulMatadeen I arrived when it crashed already.I couldn't see it so it probobly sinkĒ

https://www.instagram.com/p/BuPKwCuBbO8/

Out West
02-24-2019, 07:20 AM
He tried to tell them when they were asking permission to use it - and they still posted it as ďvideo capturing the aircraft at low elevation.Ē

No one even tries anymore.

captjns
02-24-2019, 07:32 AM
Speculation:

The forming of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence.

Synonyms:

conjecture, theorizing, hypothesizing, supposition, guesswork

Awaiting the release of the CVDR and DFDR and final NTSB report, for many, may overshadow the long awaited Robert Mueller Report.

As difficult as it may be... try not to speculate, nor ASS/U/ME. Leave that Monday Morning Quarterbacking Arm Chair in the corner of the room empty.

Try to be patient... wait for the results of the investigation(s)... read and gain knowledge so all participants make all aspects of our profession safer.

B757200ER
02-24-2019, 07:45 AM
Perhaps the best way to show respect/condolences is to not Monday-morning QB todayís events based off speculation and FlightAware.

Agree with this and what DAL Moderator said. It's better to post tributes to our fellow aviators who have flown west. Tragic.

ďTo fly west, my friend, is a flight we all must take for a final check." (Author unknown)

RadialGal
02-24-2019, 08:17 AM
All you Armchair Aviators. Screw you. Let's at least hold the speculation off until the bodies have cooled. Makes me ashamed to be a Millennial; we have to have our noses in everything.

Godspeed your fellow fliers.........ad astra,

RadialGal

flysooner9
02-24-2019, 08:50 AM
Saw this on Facebook if anyone would like to help out



https://www.gofundme.com/sean-archuletas-family?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_co_shareflow_m

Vspeeds
02-24-2019, 08:55 AM
RIP...

Fly Safe Everybody!

gdube94
02-24-2019, 09:07 AM
Damn his family is young. Thatís heartbreakingly sad. My thoughts are with the family and friends of all three crew members.


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NeverHome
02-24-2019, 09:16 AM
Such a tragedy. Also such a shame amazon isnít putting something out. Just went to their page and scrolled all the way through. No mention of condolences in this accident. I hope Iím wrong, but I failed to find anything

BravoTango
02-24-2019, 09:18 AM
Such a tragedy. Also such a shame amazon isnít putting something out. Just went to their page and scrolled all the way through. No mention of condolences in this accident. I hope Iím wrong, but I failed to find anything



It happened less than 24 hours ago, we shall see. Nothing on any website Atlas included yet.


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Out West
02-24-2019, 09:22 AM
They released a statement. As did Boeing.

Social justice warriors can put down the pitchforks.

BMEP100
02-24-2019, 09:24 AM
Saw this on Facebook if anyone would like to help out



https://www.gofundme.com/sean-archuletas-family?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_co_shareflow_m

Is this guy legit? This is awfully fast for a family friend to be collecting money.

Doesn’t give his real name. Profile photo he’s wearing a mask.

He doesn’t claim to be a family member or even say what his relationship is.

NeverHome
02-24-2019, 09:25 AM
They released a statement. As did Boeing.

Social justice warriors can put down the pitchforks.

No pitch forks. No boycotting. Not a social justice warrior. On the other hand I just went to amazon.com. No statement there, you know, where the bulk of their traffic is funneled.

sailingfun
02-24-2019, 09:29 AM
Is this guy legit? This is awfully fast for a family friend to be collecting money.

Doesnít give his real name.

He doesnít claim to be a family member or even say what his relationship is.

I would view any go fund me site with extreme skepticism. Wait until the union or airline endorse a site with a direct link.

Out West
02-24-2019, 09:37 AM
Good grief.

It took 4 seconds to find it quoted.

https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/23/amazon-prime-air-crash/

Happy?

propdriver86
02-24-2019, 09:38 AM
How about a link to the statement they allegedly made. It would be the same as a regional crash and the mainline partner making condolences.

Just saying, but hey, Iím just a nobody in this

"Our thoughts and prayers are with the flight crew, their families and friends along with the entire team at Atlas Air during this terrible tragedy," Dave Clark, Amazon's senior vice president of worldwide operations. "We appreciate the first responders who worked urgently to provide support."

NeverHome
02-24-2019, 09:46 AM
"Our thoughts and prayers are with the flight crew, their families and friends along with the entire team at Atlas Air during this terrible tragedy," Dave Clark, Amazon's senior vice president of worldwide operations. "We appreciate the first responders who worked urgently to provide support."

I guess Iím the only one who finds it cold to not provide a link on their homepage acknowledging this tragedy to their customers. Why should someone have to seek this out. It appears to me at least that amazon is trying to distance themselves from this when they wonít acknowledge this directly to their customer base.

Not bashing on them, I personally find it disappointing. That is all

midnightshuttle
02-24-2019, 09:47 AM
If someone finds a veted (union or pilot group backed) donation site please post on separate thread as to make it visible to all.

Sadly weíre acmi and not united or brown or purple and dont have all the benefits they enjoy. Im sure any help regardless of size will help.


I hope Atlas Management takes a breather from litigation on thier pilot group after and actually tries to help and be proactive with families involved.

WhaleSurfing
02-24-2019, 10:11 AM
If that's true then those descent rates at the end are higher than a Tactical Descent on a C-17 with the thrust reversers out. That can't be a Tstorm... It's still way too early and who knows if any of this stuff is accurate. Witnesses claimed it was in a pretty nose low attitude.

Youíre thinking the plane was in a controlled descent at that point and clearly it was not.

b707guy
02-24-2019, 10:15 AM
According to Avherald, and in case the national networks manage to avoid coverage:


"A media briefing will be held in Anahuac on Feb 24th 2019 at 16:00L (22:00Z), The Aviation Herald will be covering the media briefing."


Tailwinds and smooth air for our brothers.

filejw
02-24-2019, 10:41 AM
I guess Iím the only one who finds it cold to not provide a link on their homepage acknowledging this tragedy to their customers. Why should someone have to seek this out. It appears to me at least that amazon is trying to distance themselves from this when they wonít acknowledge this directly to their customer base.

Not bashing on them, I personally find it disappointing. That is all

I suspect that sometime monday you will find that press release on the amazon corporate website under press center.

linkb
02-24-2019, 12:56 PM
Godspeed crew and ACM of Atlas flight 3591 from your brothers and sisters at ABX. Prayers for comfort and healing to their families and friends.

Tacos
02-24-2019, 01:57 PM
As an Atlas 767 pilot, and a pilot in general, I am absolutely heartbroken. I have no words and am struggling to believe and process what has happened. I havenít flown with either of the operating crewmembers, but I had the privledge of meeting the offline carrier jumpseater on this flight when he jumpseated on my flight, this same leg, at the end of November. I remembered him immediately after I saw his name. I rememeber him showing us pictures of wife and young child from Halloween only weeks prior. He had a smile from ear to ear. He also had some good things on the horizon. He seemed like an a stand up guy with a bright future. So incredibly tragic.

RIP and tailwinds fellas. You will not be forgotten.

coolingfin
02-24-2019, 02:10 PM
Condolences and thoughts with those affected, and all at Atlas. So very hard to hear this news.

Farewell fellow airmen, rest easy.

UAL T38 Phlyer
02-24-2019, 02:10 PM
Be respectful of those who flew West and their families.

Any pointless bickering or just anything that might cause their friends or love ones anguish is gone.

You may find some posts gone. Sorry...it means it wasnít appropriate.

BoomerSooner
02-24-2019, 04:53 PM
NATCA Mourns Loss of Three Crew Members Aboard Flight 5Y3591

Offers condolences to their families, friends & fellow union members
WASHINGTON Ė The National Air Traffic Controllers Association (NATCA) issued the following statement regarding the tragic loss of the three crew members of the Atlas Air Flight 5Y3591, who died after the Boeing 767-300 freighter aircraft that they were operating for Amazon Prime Air crashed into Trinity Bay east of Houston, Texas, on Saturday afternoon:
ďToday, as the aviation community mourns this terrible tragedy, NATCA remembers the lives of the three Atlas Air crew members aboard Flight 5Y3591. Our Unionís thoughts are with their families and friends, and we offer our deepest condolences to them. NATCA also stands with the co-workers and fellow pilots of the deceased.
ďNATCA also is saddened for our members at Houston Terminal Radar Approach Control (I90), especially for those air traffic controllers who worked this flight. We offer our full support to them. The safety of every flight is our highest priority. When an incident occurs, it deeply affects everyone in the aviation family, including the nearly 20,000 controllers and other aviation safety professionals represented by our Union.
ďThe deceased were fellow union brothers, represented by the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. They were members of the Airline Professionals Association, Teamsters Local Union No. 1224. NATCA stands today with all members of their union. We offer our support as they deal with the loss of their brothers.
ďNATCA pledges its full cooperation in the investigation into this crash and has party status with the National Transportation Safety Board.Ē

FlyJSH
02-24-2019, 04:54 PM
In a sick sort of way I am happy we have the blame-laying, Monday morning quarterbacks.

Why?

Because the large number of them show how safe flying has become.

I mean, I cannot imagine they can make categorical statements laying blame unless they had never had the dubious honor of cleaning out a fellow pilot's locker and turning the contents over to the next of kin.

Nor can I imagine they have been awakened two hours into rest by a call from an old buddy saying, "Are you okay?" only to be followed by, "You better turn on the television."

Nor have they experienced the morning after in a normally jovial crew room made silent by a crash 1000 miles away.

Nor have they experienced walking through the airport and having every other pilot nod their head recognition of your loss.

Not knowing these pilots or their families, any words I would say would be trite.

So to those impacted by the deaths of these pilots, I bow my head in silent, solemn recognition of your loss. I can only hope that you find peace.

Gary et al
02-24-2019, 05:13 PM
My heart goes out to the families and friends of those who knew these crew members. Sincerely sorry for your loss. God Bless.

Bidderswede
02-24-2019, 05:23 PM
It hurts me to even having to post this, but I will anyway..
There are posts on "Go Fund me" right now that seem suspicious to me.
If I'm wrong, I apologize.
I would be happy to help out financially to these families enduring this terrible accident, but there are people out there trying to turn this tragedy into their own gain..
So.. all I'm saying is, make sure you are giving your $ to the ones that needs it at this time.
To me, it looks a little weird to start asking for donations this early.. but that's me.
Do your own research, and donate away.
Just my 2 cents....

Cheddar
02-24-2019, 05:29 PM
In a sick sort of way I am happy we have the blame-laying, Monday morning quarterbacks.



Why?



Because the large number of them show how safe flying has become.



I mean, I cannot imagine they can make categorical statements laying blame unless they had never had the dubious honor of cleaning out a fellow pilot's locker and turning the contents over to the next of kin.



Nor can I imagine they have been awakened two hours into rest by a call from an old buddy saying, "Are you okay?" only to be followed by, "You better turn on the television."



Nor have they experienced the morning after in a normally jovial crew room made silent by a crash 1000 miles away.



Nor have they experienced walking through the airport and having every other pilot nod their head recognition of your loss.



Not knowing these pilots or their families, any words I would say would be trite.



So to those impacted by the deaths of these pilots, I bow my head in silent, solemn recognition of your loss. I can only hope that you find peace.



word...


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Bidderswede
02-24-2019, 05:53 PM
First, there is a difference between "Monday morning quarterbacking" and speculating. "The definition of a Monday morning quarterback is someone who is always criticizing and saying how he would have done something better or differently after the event has passed." I haven't seen any of that in this thread, though I have seen speculation.
Second, speculating is something all of us are probably doing right now. "What the hell happened??" Especially a crash like this. Maybe it's just in our own heads. Maybe to each other. This was not a controlled flight into terrain. It does not appear to be weather-related. I can't remember an accident like this since USAir 427.
That's as far as I will go and I will hold off on any further public "speculation" until the NTSB comes out with something, but let's all relax. We all deal with the shock in our own ways.
And yeah, I have cleared out lockers. The first one from my flight class was killed less than a year after graduation when his aircraft pitched over and dove into the jungles of Honduras. I think 10 from my class of 60 were killed in accidents or combat. If you don't want people speculating what happened if you are killed, you're in the wrong line of work. Heck, if something happens to me don't worry about speculating. I'm sure I won't care.
My heart breaks for the families. I hope they find solace and peace.

No need to speculate on social media...
Sorry for your losses..

No Land 3
02-24-2019, 06:39 PM
It hurts me to even having to post this, but I will anyway..
There are posts on "Go Fund me" right now that seem suspicious to me.
If I'm wrong, I apologize.
I would be happy to help out financially to these families enduring this terrible accident, but there are people out there trying to turn this tragedy into their own gain..
So.. all I'm saying is, make sure you are giving your $ to the ones that needs it at this time.
To me, it looks a little weird to start asking for donations this early.. but that's me.
Do your own research, and donate away.
Just my 2 cents....

I've been reassured that the GoFundMe for Sean A. is legitimate.

TexBubba
02-24-2019, 06:41 PM
R.I.P. and tailwinds to this crew and their families. Very tragic. Condolences from the entire Spirit family. I was wondering if anyone, particularly Atlas 767 guys has any info or theories regarding the type of cargo, pallets, tie-downs breaking loose, cargo shift, etc. Similar perhaps to the National Baghram National 747, maybe? Obviously a foward shift maybe? Just such a bazar incident since no radio distress, etc. Again just curious and I hope the NTSB figures this out quick to improve safety for all ACMI and Cargo operators further.

No Land 3
02-24-2019, 06:48 PM
R.I.P. and tailwinds to this crew and their families. Very tragic. Condolences from the entire Spirit family. I was wondering if anyone, particularly Atlas 767 guys has any info or theories regarding the type of cargo, pallets, tie-downs breaking loose, cargo shift, etc. Similar perhaps to the National Baghram National 747, maybe? Obviously a foward shift maybe? Just such a bazar incident since no radio distress, etc. Again just curious and I hope the NTSB figures this out quick to improve safety for all ACMI and Cargo operators further.
I know it is in our nature to want to know answers and try to figure things out, but it is the respectful thing to do for the families and friends of the deceased to not speculate and await official information and data.

Bidderswede
02-24-2019, 07:18 PM
I know it is in our nature to want to know answers and try to figure things out, but it is the respectful thing to do for the families and friends of the deceased to not speculate and await official information and data.

Said it before. But I agree.
Too early for speculating this tragedy..

Tango Uniform
02-24-2019, 07:31 PM
Remember to always let your family know how much you love them and never take life for granted. 3 people probably never thought that flight would be their last.
My condolences to those of you who knew the pilots on board. My condolences to the families and friends dealing with the loss.

123456
02-24-2019, 08:32 PM
There is a Go Fund Me setup for the crew now also..

https://www.gofundme.com/atlas-air-crash-3591-victims-family-fund?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_co_campmgmt_w&fbclid=IwAR2a9S2URCSm6qkINuNwdfbjYCE3CK7t5nlL0O5cs fVaoVeWpL1BAAvGtr4

dera
02-24-2019, 08:53 PM
So looks like crew names are out now. Godspeed. :(

atpcliff
02-25-2019, 02:12 AM
There is a Go Fund Me setup for the crew now also..

https://www.gofundme.com/atlas-air-crash-3591-victims-family-fund?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=fb_co_campmgmt_w&fbclid=IwAR2a9S2URCSm6qkINuNwdfbjYCE3CK7t5nlL0O5cs fVaoVeWpL1BAAvGtr4

The original posting was on a private Atlas Air website, and reposting it was approved...

atpcliff
02-25-2019, 02:13 AM
video shows atlas 767f in Ďsteepí dive prior to crash: Ntsb

24 february, 2019 source: Flight dashboard by: Jon hemmerdinger boston

the national transportation safety board (ntsb) has obtained security video showing atlas air flight 3591 in a ďsteep nose-down attitudeĒ prior to crashing in trinity bay near houston on 23 february.

ďthe aircraft is in the videoÖ at a steep descent Ė [a] steep nose-down attitude,Ē ntsb chair robert sumwalt said during a press conference on 24 february. ďi saw no evidence of the aircraft trying to turn or pull up at the last moments.Ē

the security video was taken from a county jail at a distance of slightly more than 1nm (1.9km) from the site where the boeing 767-300er freighter crashed following a flight from miami.

Authorities have confirmed three people were aboard the aircraft. Atlas air says there were no survivors.

The video shows the aircraft for approximately 5s, says sumwalt, adding that the ntsb is sending the footage to laboratories in washington dc for analysis.

He made his comments in anahuac, texas, which is near the crash site. The agencyís top priority is to recover the flight data and cockpit voice recorders, a process that may require dredging, divers or wading ďthrough the debris field and feeling for themĒ, says sumwalt.

He also confirmed several details about the flight, which took off from miami at about 11:30 local time. The 767 was approaching houston george bush intercontinental airport on the ďstandard arrival routes from the south-eastĒ, says sumwalt.

At about 12:30 houston time, the aircraft was descending through 18,000ft. Shortly after, houston air traffic controllers advised the pilots of ďlight-to-heavy rain ahead, and provided radar vectors around the weatherĒ, sumwalt says.

Controllers then cleared atlas flight 3591 to descend to 3,000ft.

At 12:39, while the aircraft was at about 6,000ft and travelling at 240kt, ďcommunication was lost with the aircraft, as was radar contactĒ, sumwalt says. ďthere was no distress call.Ē

the aircraft had not been logged as carrying hazardous materials, he adds.

The ntsb has recovered ďremains of both wingsĒ and landing gear components from a debris field that measures about 183m (600ft) by 91m, sumwalt says.

ďwe have conducted aerial surveys and up-close examination of debris fields via airboats,Ē he adds. The ntsb intends to load debris onto barges for transport to shore and onward to a local hangar.

The federal bureau of investigation has recovered two bodies and is assisting the ntsb with collection of witness statements and documentation of debris, says an fbi spokesperson.

The criminal investigation agencyís involvement in the early stages of ntsb investigations is common practice, he adds.

The federal aviation administration, boeing, atlas air, the national air traffic controllers association, pilot union international brotherhood of teamsters and engine maker general electric are assisting the ntsb with the inquiry, says sumwalt.

Boeing manufactured the cf6-80c2-powered 767-300er, registration n1217a, in 1992 and delivered it new to canadian international airlines, according to cirium fleets analyzer.

Atlas air affiliate titan aviation leasing acquired the aircraft in january 2016, at which time it entered service with atlas air, fleets analyzer shows.

Parent company atlas air worldwide holdings owns both atlas air and titan.

Since april 2017, atlas air has operated the 767 for online retailer amazon under the prime air brand, fleets analyzer shows.
12345678910

coolingfin
02-25-2019, 03:32 AM
I have to say I am very impressed that pictures/videos have yet to 'leak' out into the public. True, it is in a very isolated area that passersby can't just walk near and snap a few pictures.

I think it was just a day or two after the Lion Air MAX accident that we were seeing dozens of pictures of debris being pulled from the ocean.

I have a lot of respect for the first responders for holding back and not feeding the media.

Mesabah
02-25-2019, 05:33 AM
I have to say I am very impressed that pictures/videos have yet to 'leak' out into the public. True, it is in a very isolated area that passersby can't just walk near and snap a few pictures.

I think it was just a day or two after the Lion Air MAX accident that we were seeing dozens of pictures of debris being pulled from the ocean.

I have a lot of respect for the first responders for holding back and not feeding the media.
Except for the NTSB themselves, who tweeted out photos of a GE engineer examining shrapnel damage associated with one of the engines.

frozenboxhauler
02-25-2019, 07:21 AM
Jim well said. If you fly 121 long enough, there will be a few experiences that afterwards we like to think we lived another day because of our skill, experience, a good crew, good CRM, etc etc. Maybe it just wasn't our time. But, one thing I always keep in mind; many of my brothers and sisters lost their life so I can learn from their silent voices. There have been a few times when during the debrief at the bar when we laugh about it, then the stare we give each other knowing the flip side of the coin could have been a tragedy of horrendous proportions. Godspeed to the crew of Giant 3591, you and yours are in our hearts and prayers eternally.

Very true words. Thank you.
fbh

4runner
02-25-2019, 08:30 AM
To add insult to this whole tragedy, the JSíer was on his last trip with Mesa. He had a United class date.

aviator493
02-25-2019, 09:35 AM
I have to say I am very impressed that pictures/videos have yet to 'leak' out into the public. True, it is in a very isolated area that passersby can't just walk near and snap a few pictures.

I think it was just a day or two after the Lion Air MAX accident that we were seeing dozens of pictures of debris being pulled from the ocean.

I have a lot of respect for the first responders for holding back and not feeding the media.



A jail camera a mile away caught the last 15 seconds before impact. Itís not public.


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coolingfin
02-25-2019, 11:25 AM
A jail camera a mile away caught the last 15 seconds before impact. Itís not public.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw this was stated in the report. It's not public, yet.

Out West
02-25-2019, 12:37 PM
Hopefully itís safety privileged and never is.

Droopy
02-25-2019, 12:56 PM
Hopefully itís safety privileged and never is.

Safety privilege is a military thing. As the NTSB investigator said in the news conference, all factual material will be released in the public docket at a certain time in the process. It's not going to be soon, but it will be released.

Out West
02-25-2019, 01:00 PM
Yeah I know, poorly worded hope on my part. You worded it better, good point out.

I just hate it. Weíve already gotten the standard ďthe engines were sputteringĒ crap from ďwitnesses.Ē I can only imagine what astute observations will follow the video.

This whole thing just bothers me, I guess. I feel terrible about it for their families.

rickair7777
02-25-2019, 01:44 PM
Hopefully itís safety privileged and never is.

Once it gets into the NTSB process it will become a matter of public record. They don't have to release it now, but eventually.

Only exception would be if the info were actually classified before becoming relevant to the investigation.

TiredSoul
02-25-2019, 03:19 PM
A good friend send me this, feel free to use it.

midnightshuttle
02-25-2019, 03:42 PM
I have to say I am very impressed that pictures/videos have yet to 'leak' out into the public. True, it is in a very isolated area that passersby can't just walk near and snap a few pictures.

I think it was just a day or two after the Lion Air MAX accident that we were seeing dozens of pictures of debris being pulled from the ocean.

I have a lot of respect for the first responders for holding back and not feeding the media.

Apparently a video was leaked right after but disappeared. Another board someone claimed it was a security camera or to that effect. Poor quality from a distance. I donít believe that should be in public domain. Families dont need to see that as they did with the national crash. I hope Atlas is treating the families responsibly. Hopefully stop litigation on the pilot group during this as well.

thepotato232
02-25-2019, 05:43 PM
I just wanted to say there was a similar GoFundMe campaign in place for the family of the Kalitta Charters pilot we lost last year, and word from some of those close to him was that the money went where it was intended. Skepticism is certainly healthy in this day and age, but a visible, sponsored fundraising effort there should be a helpful venue for those so inclined.

Delta 320Driver
02-25-2019, 05:44 PM
Prayers and loving support go to those that perished in this tragedy.

But by the grace of God go I.

I know we here at Delta are grieving with you. Answers will come later. We wish peace amongst all those effected by this.

Godspeed men.

4runner
02-25-2019, 08:49 PM
Prayers and loving support go to those that perished in this tragedy.

But by the grace of God go I.

I know we here at Delta are grieving with you. Answers will come later. We wish peace amongst all those effected by this.

Godspeed men.

You said the words And thoughts I had trouble putting to pen. Thank you.

whalesurfer
02-26-2019, 03:32 AM
Thoughts and prayers for the families and friends of the three fellow aviators who Flew West way too soon. Also, to our Atlas, Mesa (and United) brothers and sisters from all of us here at Big Brown. Heartbreaking news for sure..

PILOTGUY
02-26-2019, 06:10 AM
Itís so selfish to see if oneís friends are ok..
And I am guilty of that as well...

The lost crew was someoneís friend and family..

RIP for the departed souls...

My heartfelt condolences for the families..

May God Almighty give the the families, the courage to bear this loss....

Nicely stated.
We all know how tightly knit this industry is. When something tragic happens, yes, we all try and put a little more space for ourselves, hoping that we didnít know anyone involved. The sting/hurt/anguish is much more if you did know someone. I was fortunate that my friends ar Atlas were not involved.
In a recurrent ground school, two discussion areas that day were OH5191 (my previous airline) and UPS7 (FO was a friend from flight school). I had to step out of class for a little bit.

Selfish? Not at all. It is simply human nature.

My heartfelt condolences to the Atlas family, and all affected by this tragedy. Godspeed.

ShyGuy
02-26-2019, 12:24 PM
How is it selfish to ask about your friend who works at an airline that just had an accident to make sure he's okay/not involved?



You know what is selfish? Offering only "thoughts and prayers".........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9SKkd79AjQ

IHateYou
02-26-2019, 12:32 PM
How is it selfish to ask about your friend who works at an airline that just had an accident to make sure he's okay/not involved?



You know what is selfish? Offering only "thoughts and prayers".........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9SKkd79AjQ

This. Jeselnik said it perfectly.

No Land 3
02-26-2019, 01:23 PM
How is it selfish to ask about your friend who works at an airline that just had an accident to make sure he's okay/not involved?



You know what is selfish? Offering only "thoughts and prayers".........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9SKkd79AjQ

I am mad at the media for not giving equal coverage to everyone. Grateful for the support for my friend, but also saddened that the two Atlas pilots took a back seat in coverage initially, not fair to them. I contributed equally to everyone. I believe Jules also left behind a young child?

USMCFLYR
02-26-2019, 01:25 PM
I am mad at the media for not giving equal coverage to everyone. Grateful for the support for my friend, but also saddened that the two Atlas pilots took a back seat in coverage initially, not fair to them. I contributed equally to everyone. I believe Jules also left behind a young child?

Maybe because Sean was the first to be identified to the media via social networking?

No Land 3
02-26-2019, 01:30 PM
Maybe because Sean was the first to be identified to the media via social networking?
That is the reason, but they made no attempt to be factual or accurate. You know how it is with the media. Your either the pilot, or that guy in the right seat that looks like a pilot.

Out West
02-26-2019, 03:06 PM
Gotta say I’m not following where you folks are going with this one.:confused:

I’d love to have exactly zero media coverage, if it were me. For my family’s sake, considering there’s a 100% chance they goon it up anyway. And what’s more, in that situation my surviving family would love all of the thoughts and prayers they could get. What’s with the new fad of demonizing people for offering prayer? Being nice and polite isn’t a bad thing, and not everyone makes WB captain pay. What would money bring my wife that prayer wouldn’t?

Maybe I’m missing something, though.

crflyer
02-26-2019, 03:51 PM
How is it selfish to ask about your friend who works at an airline that just had an accident to make sure he's okay/not involved?



You know what is selfish? Offering only "thoughts and prayers".........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9SKkd79AjQ

Glad somebody said it.

whalesurfer
02-26-2019, 04:06 PM
I am mad at the media for not giving equal coverage to everyone. Grateful for the support for my friend, but also saddened that the two Atlas pilots took a back seat in coverage initially, not fair to them. I contributed equally to everyone. I believe Jules also left behind a young child?

Couldnít have said it any better.
We all lost three brothers who perished on the same flight. Doesnít matter which airline they worked for.
Three brothers.

IcelandicHammer
02-26-2019, 04:18 PM
Whatís with the new fad of demonizing people for offering prayer? Being nice and polite isnít a bad thing, and not everyone makes WB captain pay.

Pray all you want. But to tell the world or someone who is suffering that you're offering your thoughts and prayers through your social media outlet is nothing but virtue signalling. That's the fad. If people don't want to be called out on it, they should stop doing it. It's not polite. It's incredibly rude and egocentric.

DC8DRIVER
02-26-2019, 04:55 PM
Pray all you want. But to tell the world or someone who is suffering that you're offering your thoughts and prayers through your social media outlet is nothing but virtue signalling. That's the fad. If people don't want to be called out on it, they should stop doing it. It's not polite. It's incredibly rude and egocentric.

Easy there ...

Not everyone processes the death of a friend or family member in the same way. Not everyone interprets social media in the same way. And there is no way to anticipate how another person will interpret a message.

I will tell you that, as a person who lost his older brother in an aircraft accident, that the very last thing I would want to see online is anything negative about anyone or anything. The families of these pilots are dealing with just about the most negative thing in the world right now, so let's let everyone do their own thing and try not to start down the wrong path.

Birdo1
02-26-2019, 04:55 PM
Pray all you want. But to tell the world or someone who is suffering that you're offering your thoughts and prayers through your social media outlet is nothing but virtue signalling. That's the fad. If people don't want to be called out on it, they should stop doing it. It's not polite. It's incredibly rude and egocentric.



Youíre really trashing a group of people who are offering their thoughts and prayers (their respects) during a tragic mishap like this? Iíll bet youíre a REAL treat to fly with. I have a feeling youíre on a few peopleís ďno flyĒ lists as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ray Red
02-26-2019, 05:08 PM
Pray all you want. But to tell the world or someone who is suffering that you're offering your thoughts and prayers through your social media outlet is nothing but virtue signalling. That's the fad. If people don't want to be called out on it, they should stop doing it. It's not polite. It's incredibly rude and egocentric.

Tell me about your father....

IcelandicHammer
02-26-2019, 05:44 PM
Youíre really trashing a group of people who are offering their thoughts and prayers (their respects) during a tragic mishap like this? Iíll bet youíre a REAL treat to fly with. I have a feeling youíre on a few peopleís ďno flyĒ lists as well.


Honestly, I think your response says a whole lot more about you than it says about me.

I'm drawing a distinction between offering condolences to someone or broadcasting your condolences to everyone. There's a difference. I was guilty of it, too, but I took in information and changed my behavior. You should try it.

hilltopflyer
02-26-2019, 05:52 PM
Honestly, I think your response says a whole lot more about you than it says about me.

I'm drawing a distinction between offering condolences to someone or broadcasting your condolences to everyone. There's a difference. I was guilty of it, too, but I took in information and changed my behavior. You should try it.

As someone who has lost a nephew it meant the world to me and my family that people I barely knew or didnít at all would send a message on Facebook telling me my family was in their prayers... not starting anything just putting it out there.

whalesurfer
02-26-2019, 06:10 PM
Pray all you want. But to tell the world or someone who is suffering that you're offering your thoughts and prayers through your social media outlet is nothing but virtue signalling. That's the fad. If people don't want to be called out on it, they should stop doing it. It's not polite. It's incredibly rude and egocentric.

You mustíve been looking in the mirror when you typed the last few lines? :confused:
Why do you jump on people when theyíre simply offering sympathies THEIR way? You have an issue with them using social media? Thatís todayís telephone and snail mail. If you hate religion, as you clearly do, more power to you but many people draw strength from it. Donít like it? Just donít read it.

Not in a million years wouldíve ever thought people would be getting Ďhammeredí for the ďrude and egocentricĒ act of offering their thoughts and prayers.. just unbelievable. :(

Was gonna say Ďbless you heartí but Iím not sure youíve got any..

JackStraw
02-26-2019, 06:17 PM
Its intriguing how human nature dictates that a thread must always devolve into an online food fight between the inner children of grown men. No matter how sad the topic; it literally never fails. It’s all about you, fellas.

Cheddar
02-26-2019, 06:24 PM
As someone who has lost a nephew it meant the world to me and my family that people I barely knew or didnít at all would send a message on Facebook telling me my family was in their prayers... not starting anything just putting it out there.



Different situation for me, same response. It meant so much more than nothing at all. A lot more.

These men and their families are in my familyís prayers. God Bless them in this horrible time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

V12Merlin
02-26-2019, 06:32 PM
Instead of all this bickering and Monday morning quarterbacking, Maybe you guys should focus on how these gentlemen LIVED, not how they DIED.

There are little kids involved here. Try to have some respect.

So thereís that.

DC8DRIVER
02-26-2019, 06:36 PM
I am mad at the media for not giving equal coverage to everyone. Grateful for the support for my friend, but also saddened that the two Atlas pilots took a back seat in coverage initially, not fair to them. I contributed equally to everyone. I believe Jules also left behind a young child?

There may also be more to the story.

As I understand it, one or both of the Atlas pilot families requested that the names not be released for a brief period. Don't know why, but maybe they needed some time to come to terms with the immediate requirements or they might have wanted to reach out to other family members first.

Unfortunately, at least on the Atlas side, both the names and faces of the Atlas crew hit the internet vary quickly. I have no idea how the news got to those families, though.

In the age of instant information, it will become more and more difficult for families in this situation to be notified appropriately and have the time they need to prepare for the news to get out.

CardboardCutout
02-27-2019, 07:46 AM
Itís all about you, fellas.

Common misconception. It's actually all about ME.

Good post, otherwise.

n606tw
02-27-2019, 08:07 AM
Instead of all this bickering and Monday morning quarterbacking, Maybe you guys should focus on how these gentlemen LIVED, not how they DIED.

There are little kids involved here. Try to have some respect.

So thereís that.


They lived tired ... or fatigue!:eek:

Asiabound
02-27-2019, 11:44 AM
There may also be more to the story.

As I understand it, one or both of the Atlas pilot families requested that the names not be released for a brief period. Don't know why, but maybe they needed some time to come to terms with the immediate requirements or they might have wanted to reach out to other family members first.

Unfortunately, at least on the Atlas side, both the names and faces of the Atlas crew hit the internet vary quickly. I have no idea how the news got to those families, though.

In the age of instant information, it will become more and more difficult for families in this situation to be notified appropriately and have the time they need to prepare for the news to get out.

The scheduling software maybe? I don't work there, but most airlines allow crewmembers to see who is working which flight? So all as soon as word gets out flight 1234 is down. Everyone that works there can look up who it is.

God forbid this should happen again, maybe it would be smart for the airline to block that info immediately, when something happens. Even if it isn't a fatal accident that still might be a good idea.

Just an thought. RIP to the crew, condolences to their loved ones.

RiddleEagle18
02-27-2019, 11:59 AM
I know our airline has a critical incident response team that scrubs the internal access to names very quickly.

We are also a bit larger than atlas, so maybe that plays a role in being able to quickly respond. We have Atleast a few members of that team working in one of several different departments at all times in System Ops.


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No Land 3
02-27-2019, 12:05 PM
I know our airline has a critical incident response team that scrubs the internal access to names very quickly.

We are also a bit larger than atlas, so maybe that plays a role in being able to quickly respond. We have Atleast a few members of that team working in one of several different departments at all times in System Ops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I would surmise it is impossible to hide it with the pilot groups.

TiredSoul
02-27-2019, 12:41 PM
Letís remember that Atlas has never had a fatal crash before.
It takes time to kick start the whole process and I think as a pilot group as a whole weíre responsible enough to keep any knowledge private till it has been published and or next of kin are notified.
I think as a pilot group we are entitled to know who was involved.
We might be able to provide information or even be part of the team that notifies.
Iím pretty sure a family would rather see a familiar face.

DC8DRIVER
02-27-2019, 05:27 PM
God forbid this should happen again, maybe it would be smart for the airline to block that info immediately, when something happens. Even if it isn't a fatal accident that still might be a good idea.

Just an thought. RIP to the crew, condolences to their loved ones.

It was blocked immediately. Just not immediately enough.

Flight crews would want to know who is involved as soon as possible for obvious reasons. That said, the needs of the family should clearly come first.

Bidderswede
02-27-2019, 05:33 PM
Me personally don't think this was caused by fatigue, and as I have said before, I'm not going to speculate about this accident.

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Atlas-Air-Criticized-by-Pilots-After-767-Crash-232343-1.html

MX727
02-27-2019, 07:07 PM
Video:


https://www.click2houston.com/news/video-shows-cargo-plane-moments-before-crash-at-trinity-bay

Coneydog
02-27-2019, 08:58 PM
My heart goes out to the victims families. I think itís fair to say we are all mourning the loss of our brothers. Does anyone have the go fund me link/s for the famiiies?

Bidderswede
02-27-2019, 09:29 PM
My heart goes out to the victims families. I think itís fair to say we are all mourning the loss of our brothers. Does anyone have the go fund me link/s for the famiiies?

Just scroll back a few pages.

Buckinfantastic
02-28-2019, 04:18 AM
I know our airline has a critical incident response team that scrubs the internal access to names very quickly.

We are also a bit larger than atlas, so maybe that plays a role in being able to quickly respond. We have Atleast a few members of that team working in one of several different departments at all times in System Ops.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes, that's true. IME, ops people will know because they've found out from dispatch immediately after it happened. Ops management and execs will be called and dispatch and scheduling shift managers will be responsible for gathering all documentation on the crew and the flight that they can to brief the managers when they arrive. When they arrive, they will launch the "war room" where they will proceed to handle everything related to the accident- the rest of the operation must continue uninterrupted. Then all records will be restricted so that no one on the floor or in the crewmember groups can access the documents. This will take about 15 minutes from first notification.

Crewmembers will begin calling at that point and we are not allowed to give any information regarding crew names, the location, the nature of the incident, sometimes not even confirmation that there was an incident. The reason for this is that not only are crewmembers and families going to call (circumventing the HR process for notification) but news outlets will also call and try to get information either through stating their purpose or even lying and trying to pretend they're crew or family.

Most, if not all, airlines have a robust emergency preparedness protocol that is practiced every so often via drills. They range from table top exercises to actual simulations using aircraft trainers, crisis actors, etc. There are also "go" teams comprised of people from throughout the airline that are trained to respond in some capacity whether it is crowd management, family comforting, etc. They get sent to the scene immediately.

I can't speak for Atlas as to which parts they have vs. what I've described, but that's the way it was for us when we had an incident and later an accident.

There has been some research into the idea of "secondary victims" meaning the support personnel involved with that flight. Some of them never return to work after an event like this.

I don't say any of that to diminish the loss of this crew at all- just to offer another perspective.

Rest in peace, gentlemen.

UnusualAttitude
02-28-2019, 05:18 AM
Me personally don't think this was caused by fatigue, and as I have said before, I'm not going to speculate about this accident.

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Atlas-Air-Criticized-by-Pilots-After-767-Crash-232343-1.html

Has any factual information been released about schedule on day of and days previous to accident? Due to nature of cargo accident coverage, factual and pertinent information has been pretty scarce.

Fortunately the NTSB will spare no resources to investigate this.

-UA

andreas500
02-28-2019, 05:33 AM
My heart goes out to the victims families. I think itís fair to say we are all mourning the loss of our brothers. Does anyone have the go fund me link/s for the famiiies?


The links to the funds are also in a thread / post that is "pinned" to the top of threads for this forum section - "Cargo"

RickySpanish
02-28-2019, 07:35 AM
Me personally don't think this was caused by fatigue, and as I have said before, I'm not going to speculate about this accident.

https://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/Atlas-Air-Criticized-by-Pilots-After-767-Crash-232343-1.html

This avweb article used cut and pasted quotes from interviews that happened prior to this accident.

IHateYou
02-28-2019, 12:30 PM
Fatigue doesn't cause any airplane to essentially nose dive 6000+ into the ground. Especially with a Jump seater who mostly likely was fresh and going to work. It's not like the movie Airplane where a pilot instantly slumps over the control wheel. Whatever caused this was very sudden, very catastrophic and pretty much out of the hands of the three pilots.

CardboardCutout
02-28-2019, 12:52 PM
and pretty much out of the hands of the three pilots.

We hope...

badlander45
02-28-2019, 01:15 PM
How is it selfish to ask about your friend who works at an airline that just had an accident to make sure he's okay/not involved?



You know what is selfish? Offering only "thoughts and prayers".........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9SKkd79AjQ

haha! perfect.

gatorhater
02-28-2019, 03:08 PM
Curious... what is the jumpseat configuration on the pax->cargo 767? Are they in cockpit ala FDX and UPS, or are they in the galley like a converted MD-11?

niteflyr
02-28-2019, 04:32 PM
Fatigue doesn't cause any airplane to essentially nose dive 6000+ into the ground. Especially with a Jump seater who mostly likely was fresh and going to work. It's not like the movie Airplane where a pilot instantly slumps over the control wheel. Whatever caused this was very sudden, very catastrophic and pretty much out of the hands of the three pilots.

This^^^. Not even a distress call? There is way out there, weird stuff going on here. Very sad. Hopefully the NTSB will get to the bottom of this.

jtriple7
02-28-2019, 05:28 PM
I think a lot of guys are thinking something thats not going to get typed onto an online forum, so we really need the voice/flt recorders found to figure this out.



This^^^. Not even a distress call? There is way out there, weird stuff going on here. Very sad. Hopefully the NTSB will get to the bottom of this.



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