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View Full Version : Mesa or PSA?


kevin18
02-27-2019, 10:34 AM
Ok, so here's the rub. I've got a start date with PSA in april. I'm living in Norfolk, and looking at the reserve times for FO and CA and debating jumping ship for Mesa. I'm wondering how much reserve time there is for Mesa, and if DC is a junior base that I could hold for my whole time of employment. Also, how's the company? I'm still reading through the forums to get my own read on what's going on. Just looking for anything direct from you guys.

Thanks


Phoenix21
02-27-2019, 10:43 AM
Ok, so here's the rub. I've got a start date with PSA in april. I'm living in Norfolk, and looking at the reserve times for FO and CA and debating jumping ship for Mesa. I'm wondering how much reserve time there is for Mesa, and if DC is a junior base that I could hold for my whole time of employment. Also, how's the company? I'm still reading through the forums to get my own read on what's going on. Just looking for anything direct from you guys.

Thanks

I mean this in the nicest way possible but youíre crazy if youíre going to pass up a regional airline with a solid future with a base in your home town, to commute to Mesa. ORF reserve isnít that long.

kevin18
02-27-2019, 10:46 AM
I mean this in the nicest way possible but youíre crazy if youíre going to pass up a regional airline with a solid future with a base in your home town, to commute to Mesa. ORF reserve isnít that long.

Just looking at options. Right now, and still not on the seniority list, it's looking like 10 months of reserve. Then, after the upgrade, it's looking like a year on reserve. So, add that up and it's roughly two years on reserve, which nominally nets me maybe ~500 hours of flying on both sides? Just seems like two years of wasted time. A commute to a line seems better than a home town base on reserve for two years. Like I said, just looking at options.


cursesRedBaron
02-27-2019, 10:48 AM
No matter what their propaganda claims: Mesa has one of the lowest pay scales around, and they run their people pretty hard.
It's the sort of place you go if no one else will talk to you...

bnkangle
02-27-2019, 11:03 AM
It's the sort of place you go if no one else will talk to you...

But they have a CPP for some reason, unlike Republic or almighty SkyWest.

No Land 3
02-27-2019, 11:17 AM
Try non revving on American while all the PSA pilots have priority over you, but not only them, flight instructors in their pipeline program have priority over you, retirees, family members, etc. A Jet Blue guy gets to the gate before you? Guess what?
You are complaining about reserve times... Theres people on here who waited 8+ years to upgrade, many others who were on reserve for years. Some had to have 5000 hours just to get noticed.
Yes things have changed, and yes, it would be ideal to be a line holder as soon as possible. You are severely underestimating the "suck" of non reving as a commuter working for a 3rd party regional, while you could be living on base. Perhaps it is simply something you just need to experience, unfortunately you have to decide now.

bababouey
02-27-2019, 12:05 PM
Live in base for a company owned by AA that they want to succeed or commute/drive far to literally the worst 121 job there is, tough call!!


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20sx
02-27-2019, 07:01 PM
If you come to Dulles, youíll fly too much and wonít have much control of your schedule. Itíll get old not getting the days off you want. Youíll be able to upgrade quick there, but then youíll be on reserve for a long time. Better to be on reserve where you live.

Donít come for the cpp, itís pretty much a joke.

Brody
02-27-2019, 08:59 PM
PSA's reserve and Mesa's reserve are night and day.

With PSA you'll have - for the most part - the ability to tweak your monthly schedule to suit your social life/family life.

At Mesa they run so thin on reserves, you'll be unable to adjust your schedule.

I'd choose PSA

No Land 3
02-27-2019, 11:27 PM
Commuting nearly drove me away from aviation. However, it also pushed me hard to move up in aviation. Theres something to be said about not getting comfortable at a regional.

Irishblackbird
02-28-2019, 08:32 AM
PSA's reserve and Mesa's reserve are night and day.

With PSA you'll have - for the most part - the ability to tweak your monthly schedule to suit your social life/family life.

At Mesa they run so thin on reserves, you'll be unable to adjust your schedule.

I'd choose PSA

Ah, that's a bit overstated about PSA's reserve. I can't speak to Mesa and it's reserve, but the ability to "tweak" your monthly schedule is solely based on the reserve grid being green, and for most bases there are only about 5 or 6 days being green. So you better hope that day you need off is green, and likely since there are so few of those days you'll be competing with other guys that want "tweak" their schedule as well.

lookmom
02-28-2019, 10:18 AM
There are PSA folks leaving for Mesa...blows your mind! Why? They arenít flying enough. Pick your evil, regionals are all the same. Get your time and get out. Unless thereís some reason you canít get a job at a legacy without flow, then go wholly owned and wait your 5-8 yrs. If you want to sit at home on reserve and not fly nor built time, PSA is a great choice. If you want to fly your butt off, be on reserve for month & commute, go anywhere else. But if your choice is Mesa for IAD...consider Commutair...?

kevin18
02-28-2019, 11:46 AM
There are PSA folks leaving for Mesa...blows your mind! Why? They aren’t flying enough. Pick your evil, regionals are all the same. Get your time and get out. Unless there’s some reason you can’t get a job at a legacy without flow, then go wholly owned and wait your 5-8 yrs. If you want to sit at home on reserve and not fly nor built time, PSA is a great choice. If you want to fly your butt off, be on reserve for month & commute, go anywhere else. But if your choice is Mesa for IAD...consider Commutair...?

There are a couple reasons I'm thinking of this. Every year spent on reserve in the regionals is costing about $300k+. Where does that number come from? Every check you spend on regional time is time you're missing in the legacy world. The checks on the end are the ones that you don't get by delaying your start at a legacy. The checks in the beginning are always going to be there.

I'm a former Navy H-60 guy with about 1600TT and all of the wickets met for my ATP. I've got every military box checked as far as stan/instrument/instructor and all of that stuff. I've got a clean record with no skeletons buried in a closet somewhere.

I haven't taken a look at commutair, but will be doing so.

Can anyone tell me if Mesa's IAD base is junior? Someone seemed to mention a month of reserve time there, can anyone confirm?

Thanks

Phoenix21
02-28-2019, 12:18 PM
There are a couple reasons I'm thinking of this. Every year spent on reserve in the regionals is costing about $300k+. Where does that number come from? Every check you spend on regional time is time you're missing in the legacy world. The checks on the end are the ones that you don't get by delaying your start at a legacy. The checks in the beginning are always going to be there.

I'm a former Navy H-60 guy with about 1600TT and all of the wickets met for my ATP. I've got every military box checked as far as stan/instrument/instructor and all of that stuff. I've got a clean record with no skeletons buried in a closet somewhere.

I haven't taken a look at commutair, but will be doing so.

Can anyone tell me if Mesa's IAD base is junior? Someone seemed to mention a month of reserve time there, can anyone confirm?

Thanks

If youíre a helo guy youíre looking at 3-5 years before youíre competitive for a major if current trends remain the same (depending on how frontiers Helo hiring program goes). Thatís a long time to commute.

FTN616
02-28-2019, 05:06 PM
I've worked at both so can provide more insight then most. I'm currently at Mesa and while I have nothing negative to say about MESA, the choice in your situation is a given. PSA hands down. If nothing else the ability to not commute is huge and is the deciding factor. PSA has a better contract and a flow should you need it(6-8 years). Once you do put in that reserve time and hold a line, the SAP is amazing. It does not exist anywhere else in the regionals. Not at that level anyway. Since daddy American has deep pockets and is not cheap like Mesa, you also have much better tools in the cockpit. Ie PDC, D-Atis, georef on taxi charts, etc. As others mentioned you have much better priority when you are non revving. The only benefit I would say at Mesa is that management is more laid back. The guys at PSA have sticks up their as** and think their ****** doesn't stink. Note I said management, the pilots and crew are great to work with. As far as IAD you will get it right out of training if that's what you want. It is the most junior for CRJ's. You may be on reserve for a month or two(which is nothing) but if you are, they will use the crap out of you. I hear what you are saying regarding the 300K but there is also a lot to be said about quality of life. I was prior Navy as well and didn't think I would mind the commute but it wears on you. If you ignore my advice we can at least split the referral bonus for Mesa. :) PM me if you have other questions. Happy to help.

20sx
03-01-2019, 03:52 AM
If you get any reserve in IAD, it's because you finished training after PBS bidding or you messed up your bid. Winter is almost over, there is way more flying than there are FOs to do the flying.

bababouey
03-01-2019, 04:46 AM
Don't be short sighted, going to Mesa because you'll fly more is a terrible reason. Chillax, you'll get your time and a job offer in due time. Mesa is where guys go after they've been fired or failed out of training from everywhere else.

pangolin
03-01-2019, 05:16 AM
I wouldnít recommend Mesa for IAD until the expiring CPA with United and the Dulles CRJs is renewed.

I've worked at both so can provide more insight then most. I'm currently at Mesa and while I have nothing negative to say about MESA, the choice in your situation is a given. PSA hands down. If nothing else the ability to not commute is huge and is the deciding factor. PSA has a better contract and a flow should you need it(6-8 years). Once you do put in that reserve time and hold a line, the SAP is amazing. It does not exist anywhere else in the regionals. Not at that level anyway. Since daddy American has deep pockets and is not cheap like Mesa, you also have much better tools in the cockpit. Ie PDC, D-Atis, georef on taxi charts, etc. As others mentioned you have much better priority when you are non revving. The only benefit I would say at Mesa is that management is more laid back. The guys at PSA have sticks up their as** and think their ****** doesn't stink. Note I said management, the pilots and crew are great to work with. As far as IAD you will get it right out of training if that's what you want. It is the most junior for CRJ's. You may be on reserve for a month or two(which is nothing) but if you are, they will use the crap out of you. I hear what you are saying regarding the 300K but there is also a lot to be said about quality of life. I was prior Navy as well and didn't think I would mind the commute but it wears on you. If you ignore my advice we can at least split the referral bonus for Mesa. :) PM me if you have other questions. Happy to help.

backtoregionals
03-01-2019, 06:33 AM
I wouldnít recommend Mesa for IAD until the expiring CPA with United and the Dulles CRJs is renewed.

At this point, I wouldnít recommend IAH for the EJET either. They are nearing expiration as well.

No Land 3
03-01-2019, 02:43 PM
Don't be short sighted, going to Mesa because you'll fly more is a terrible reason. Chillax, you'll get your time and a job offer in due time. Mesa is where guys go after they've been fired or failed out of training from everywhere else.
This might be the case for some, not the majority. Plenty of top notch pilots at Mesa.

K92plane
03-01-2019, 06:12 PM
This might be the case for some, not the majority. Plenty of top notch pilots at Mesa.

I know of 3 one failed from republic the others multiple incidents and Checkride failures.

pangolin
03-01-2019, 07:08 PM
This might be the case for some, not the majority. Plenty of top notch pilots at Mesa.

Mesa pilots are some of the best pilots I have ever met.

bababouey
03-02-2019, 03:45 AM
There are great guys at every company, Iíve been thankful for Mesa jumpseats/crews in the past, but donít go there until your options elsewhere are exhausted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No Land 3
03-02-2019, 09:50 AM
There are great guys at every company, Iíve been thankful for Mesa jumpseats/crews in the past, but donít go there until your options elsewhere are exhausted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is rather a unique time in aviation where people actually get multiple offers and can "choose" their regional. This was not the case when I was hired at Mesa, nor the case for anyone there hired 2013-2014ish and before. I was never able to hand pick any aviation job, it was always an "opportunity" I had to jump on.
Is Mesa more willing to give people a chance? Certainly, and I am glad for it. I only had 100 hours of currency in the past six months when I was hired.

Brody
03-02-2019, 10:44 AM
This is rather a unique time in aviation where people actually get multiple offers and can "choose" their regional. This was not the case when I was hired at Mesa, nor the case for anyone there hired 2013-2014ish and before. I was never able to hand pick any aviation job, it was always an "opportunity" I had to jump on.
Is Mesa more willing to give people a chance? Certainly, and I am glad for it. I only had 100 hours of currency in the past six months when I was hired.

Mesa offers a job - not a career.

Keep paying fast-food wages, make it nearly impossible to adjust one's schedule, and become an airline that very few legacies (or other upper-echelon carriers) hire from . . . and boom - this is now your career.

You have to REALLY love flying to do this job for (almost) free - AND know that you may end up stuck here.

Times have changed. Regionals no longer have a storage room full of applications that they can threaten you with.

pangolin
03-02-2019, 04:13 PM
You are entirely incorrect about any stigma coming from working at Mesa. There is none.

Brody
03-02-2019, 04:37 PM
You are entirely incorrect about any stigma coming from working at Mesa. There is none.

No one said anything about a stigma (unless I missed it). I doubt there's any kind of stigma attached.

I just find it more than just interesting that so few Mesa pilots get hired by legacies - or SWA, Fedex, UPS, etc.

I seem to recall an ALPA rep. proving this a year or so ago - and taking a ton of heat for doing so. If it's not a stigma - then it's intentional.

It's collusion.

Because it sure-as-hell isn't a result of chance

No Land 3
03-03-2019, 02:37 AM
Mesa is an opportunity like anywhere else. Get your time and experience, and move on. No one gets "stuck." People decide to stay or pass up other opportunities thinking they will be better off. You are only going to settle for the "big five?" That's your decision, just remember that it used to be the "big eight" or what ever, and they had flight engineer positions to fill as well.
Fewer airlines to move into, with fewer positions available. In the past people had far more choices and thus more chance of moving into mainline.
Self reflection and a willingness to try something completely different to escape the regionals is well advised for those who want out of it.

Brody
03-03-2019, 08:18 AM
Mesa is an opportunity like anywhere else. Get your time and experience, and move on. No one gets "stuck." People decide to stay or pass up other opportunities thinking they will be better off. You are only going to settle for the "big five?" That's your decision, just remember that it used to be the "big eight" or what ever, and they had flight engineer positions to fill as well.
Fewer airlines to move into, with fewer positions available. In the past people had far more choices and thus more chance of moving into mainline.
Self reflection and a willingness to try something completely different to escape the regionals is well advised for those who want out of it.

Try going to a heart surgeon who makes 30K a year - but when he got into the medicine field, he expected to make at least 300K. Sure, he could change horses midstream and do something else. It's not what he spent the better part of his life training to do.

Our skills are worth a LOT more then what they pay us at the Regionals. It's people like you who justify this - that keep the rest of us down.

Maybe you should try something different? Then you wouldn't be in the way of the rest of us who are trying to make a living commensurate with our experience and education

backtoregionals
03-03-2019, 08:22 AM
Mesa is an opportunity like anywhere else. Get your time and experience, and move on. No one gets "stuck." People decide to stay or pass up other opportunities thinking they will be better off. You are only going to settle for the "big five?" That's your decision, just remember that it used to be the "big eight" or what ever, and they had flight engineer positions to fill as well.
Fewer airlines to move into, with fewer positions available. In the past people had far more choices and thus more chance of moving into mainline.
Self reflection and a willingness to try something completely different to escape the regionals is well advised for those who want out of it.

Thatís no ****ing excuse to justify the ridiculous pay. We are flying mainline routes and their passengers with the mainline name painted on the side!!! Why does the mainline crew at the gate next door deserve 3-4x the pay we make to fly the exact same route???

No Land 3
03-03-2019, 06:08 PM
I did more to help your cause by moving on than you are doing for yourself by staying. I find it comical that a Mesa person is blaming a former Mesa person for working at Mesa for the same reasons they are for currently.
If you are not happy with the pay, go somewhere else... Like I did...

pangolin
03-03-2019, 09:19 PM
Thatís no ****ing excuse to justify the ridiculous pay. We are flying mainline routes and their passengers with the mainline name painted on the side!!! Why does the mainline crew at the gate next door deserve 3-4x the pay we make to fly the exact same route???

Seriously. Itís the number of pax. 3 x the pax 3 x the pay. If mainline absorbed the regionals then we would have different pay for the smaller metal. Same story as B Scale from the 80s and 90s. Itís why the regionals started. The main advantage to absorption would be the seniority to bid up. Thatíll never fly with alpa unless we were stapled to the bottom of the list and then new hires would be flying the smaller metal. But if they wanted to come in on a 737 or a320 they canít because that would be jumping the line. So itís just not going to happen.

Are regional pilot rates still low? Yes. Should they be increased 200-300 percent to match mainline? Probably not.

No Land 3
03-04-2019, 03:45 AM
Seriously. Itís the number of pax. 3 x the pax 3 x the pay. If mainline absorbed the regionals then we would have different pay for the smaller metal. Same story as B Scale from the 80s and 90s. Itís why the regionals started. The main advantage to absorption would be the seniority to bid up. Thatíll never fly with alpa unless we were stapled to the bottom of the list and then new hires would be flying the smaller metal. But if they wanted to come in on a 737 or a320 they canít because that would be jumping the line. So itís just not going to happen.

Are regional pilot rates still low? Yes. Should they be increased 200-300 percent to match mainline? Probably not.
Regardless, a 121 pilot should be making six figures especially considering inflation

Brody
03-04-2019, 07:17 AM
Seriously. Itís the number of pax. 3 x the pax 3 x the pay. If mainline absorbed the regionals then we would have different pay for the smaller metal. Same story as B Scale from the 80s and 90s. Itís why the regionals started. The main advantage to absorption would be the seniority to bid up. Thatíll never fly with alpa unless we were stapled to the bottom of the list and then new hires would be flying the smaller metal. But if they wanted to come in on a 737 or a320 they canít because that would be jumping the line. So itís just not going to happen.

Are regional pilot rates still low? Yes. Should they be increased 200-300 percent to match mainline? Probably not.

When you defend your master - you will never escape the plantation. You will also make it harder for others to escape as well.

Clearly, you skipped Economics 101

pangolin
03-04-2019, 10:04 AM
Regardless, a 121 pilot should be making six figures especially considering inflation

I don't disagree but I do think that an ERJ-145 pilot not making as much as a 777 pilot is NOT unreasonable.

That's a lot of negative logic in that statement but I think you get my drift.

dera
03-04-2019, 10:14 AM
I don't disagree but I do think that an ERJ-145 pilot not making as much as a 777 pilot is NOT unreasonable.

That's a lot of negative logic in that statement but I think you get my drift.

The 777 first class cabin alone produces more revenue than the whole ERJ145 to it's owner.

Yeah, it's "the same job", but the other one produces way more money to the owner than the other one.

pangolin
03-04-2019, 10:15 AM
When you defend your master - you will never escape the plantation. You will also make it harder for others to escape as well.

Clearly, you skipped Economics 101

Clearly not. I'm quite well educated in business and economics. I'm not defending the regional model. I was describing it. Economics isn't necessarily "fair" or "right" but it is what it is.

The point I was trying to make is that having a payscale based on the size of the plane isn't really unfair. We all KNOW that the size REALLY doesn't matter as far as complexity of the job, emergency procedures, etc etc... it's all the same. So I can see the argument that if it's all the same we should be paid all the same.

HOWEVER, there is ANOTHER point of view and it's not ours. That doesn't make the other point of view WRONG - it's just another aspect of the situation. The company has to make money. Did you know the biggest determining factor in the cost index we fly from the ACARS is the captains salary? Higher paid captain - higher cost index in order to reduce the cost to the company. The company is here to make money. That's what it's purpose is. WE in turn have jobs when we support that goal. It's in OUR mutual best interest. I really dislike the adversarial relationship that exists in some circles. The company is controlling costs. We are a cost. That's not WRONG. If you don't like it - leave. Vote with your feet. Our goal is to get properly compensated. That's NOT WRONG EITHER! But doing so by biting the hand that feeds you is short sighted and will ultimately fail. Anyway back to the point. An equitable pay scale across the board might be a standard base pilot pay then additional pay based on pax capacity (weight capacity for cargo) of the aircraft. That's fair to the pilots/crews and fair to the company. They make more money on a larger capacity aircraft. There's arguably more responsibility as we are responsible for more lives/cargo so we should be compensated more for the larger metal.

In REALITY this is KIND of how it works. Not entirely or intentionally but the math works out that way. Bigger metal, paid more.

Brody
03-04-2019, 12:25 PM
Clearly not. I'm quite well educated in business and economics. I'm not defending the regional model. I was describing it. Economics isn't necessarily "fair" or "right" but it is what it is.

The point I was trying to make is that having a payscale based on the size of the plane isn't really unfair. We all KNOW that the size REALLY doesn't matter as far as complexity of the job, emergency procedures, etc etc... it's all the same. So I can see the argument that if it's all the same we should be paid all the same.

HOWEVER, there is ANOTHER point of view and it's not ours. That doesn't make the other point of view WRONG - it's just another aspect of the situation. The company has to make money. Did you know the biggest determining factor in the cost index we fly from the ACARS is the captains salary? Higher paid captain - higher cost index in order to reduce the cost to the company. The company is here to make money. That's what it's purpose is. WE in turn have jobs when we support that goal. It's in OUR mutual best interest. I really dislike the adversarial relationship that exists in some circles. The company is controlling costs. We are a cost. That's not WRONG. If you don't like it - leave. Vote with your feet. Our goal is to get properly compensated. That's NOT WRONG EITHER! But doing so by biting the hand that feeds you is short sighted and will ultimately fail. Anyway back to the point. An equitable pay scale across the board might be a standard base pilot pay then additional pay based on pax capacity (weight capacity for cargo) of the aircraft. That's fair to the pilots/crews and fair to the company. They make more money on a larger capacity aircraft. There's arguably more responsibility as we are responsible for more lives/cargo so we should be compensated more for the larger metal.

In REALITY this is KIND of how it works. Not entirely or intentionally but the math works out that way. Bigger metal, paid more.

Negative, sir.

It comes down to simple supply-and-demand. Demand for people and cargo to be moved is growing. Supply - pilots dumb enough to spend 150K in school for a 30K/year regional FO job - is dwindling. Throw in the weak work-ethic of the current generation, and we as pilots should be demanding MUCH better compensation and work rules. The legacies are saving a king's ransom on our pay scales, so don't give me the bullsh*& about the 'airlines need to make money.'

They are. They're currently laughing their way to the bank.

They're laughing even harder at the regional pilot group

MrWizard
03-04-2019, 01:06 PM
There are a couple reasons I'm thinking of this. Every year spent on reserve in the regionals is costing about $300k+. Where does that number come from? Every check you spend on regional time is time you're missing in the legacy world. The checks on the end are the ones that you don't get by delaying your start at a legacy. The checks in the beginning are always going to be there.

I'm a former Navy H-60 guy with about 1600TT and all of the wickets met for my ATP. I've got every military box checked as far as stan/instrument/instructor and all of that stuff. I've got a clean record with no skeletons buried in a closet somewhere.

I haven't taken a look at commutair, but will be doing so.

Can anyone tell me if Mesa's IAD base is junior? Someone seemed to mention a month of reserve time there, can anyone confirm?

Thanks

Shipmate,

PM me, pls.

I will give you the real gouge.

R/
Mr. Wizard
YG83

No Land 3
03-04-2019, 07:56 PM
I don't disagree but I do think that an ERJ-145 pilot not making as much as a 777 pilot is NOT unreasonable.

That's a lot of negative logic in that statement but I think you get my drift.

Except a corporate pilot blows that idea out of the water especially a contract gulfstream guy despite the fact they usually are paying for their own types and recurrents. As others said, it's supply and demand.

dera
03-04-2019, 08:10 PM
Except a corporate pilot blows that idea out of the water especially a contract gulfstream guy despite the fact they usually are paying for their own types and recurrents. As others said, it's supply and demand.

It's not about the weight or anything like that, it's the value produced to the owners.

pangolin
03-04-2019, 09:23 PM
Negative, sir.

It comes down to simple supply-and-demand. Demand for people and cargo to be moved is growing. Supply - pilots dumb enough to spend 150K in school for a 30K/year regional FO job - is dwindling. Throw in the weak work-ethic of the current generation, and we as pilots should be demanding MUCH better compensation and work rules. The legacies are saving a king's ransom on our pay scales, so don't give me the bullsh*& about the 'airlines need to make money.'

They are. They're currently laughing their way to the bank.

They're laughing even harder at the regional pilot group

As I said I am not defending the model. The fact is - regionals are staffing companies. They are the pimp we are the ... well you get the idea. They have a contract and they can't stay in business if they pay too much for their raw material. It's just a fact. It's not like we are one big company and we are at the low end of the pay scale. Yes the majors make a TON off of the regionals. Whipsaw and all you know.

Brody
03-05-2019, 05:27 AM
As I said I am not defending the model. The fact is - regionals are staffing companies. They are the pimp we are the ... well you get the idea. They have a contract and they can't stay in business if they pay too much for their raw material. It's just a fact. It's not like we are one big company and we are at the low end of the pay scale. Yes the majors make a TON off of the regionals. Whipsaw and all you know.

No, it's not 'fact.'

It's your opinion - and I would argue that it's wrong. The whole regional model was built on deception. It's the perfect shell-game for legacies. People like JO make a fortune perpetuating this myth.

Start peeling the layers back and you'll see how badly we've been deceived

pangolin
03-05-2019, 12:33 PM
No, it's not 'fact.'

It's your opinion - and I would argue that it's wrong. The whole regional model was built on deception. It's the perfect shell-game for legacies. People like JO make a fortune perpetuating this myth.

Start peeling the layers back and you'll see how badly we've been deceived

I'm not new. But if you want to be one of those guys who just attacks go for it. I've been around a few times and I remember the whole B scale debate and the genesis of the regional model. You don't get to say a fact is wrong just because you want to. What "fact" did I get wrong? Be specific.

Brody
03-05-2019, 01:45 PM
I'm not new. But if you want to be one of those guys who just attacks go for it. I've been around a few times and I remember the whole B scale debate and the genesis of the regional model. You don't get to say a fact is wrong just because you want to. What "fact" did I get wrong? Be specific.

Reread your post - you're the one who used the term 'fact' twice. You stated your opinion - then called it 'fact.'

As for 'B' scale - I was a newbie in the industry at the time, and was stuck making pennies-on-the-dollar compared to others. What took them ('A' scalers) seven years to achieve in salary took me fifteen years.

I'm not attacking anyone - just pointing out to anyone reading this that we're worth a helluva lot more than we're making. I wish more of us would understand how badly we're being played - and vote accordingly come contract time.

Including you

Nightsky1
03-05-2019, 03:35 PM
Where is calmwinds with his input? Hasnít been around lately.

Cloudsurfer83
03-05-2019, 08:07 PM
Ok, so here's the rub. I've got a start date with PSA in april. I'm living in Norfolk, and looking at the reserve times for FO and CA and debating jumping ship for Mesa. I'm wondering how much reserve time there is for Mesa, and if DC is a junior base that I could hold for my whole time of employment. Also, how's the company? I'm still reading through the forums to get my own read on what's going on. Just looking for anything direct from you guys.



Thanks



Hey, here is the inside scoop from a Mesa Pilot. IAD is nothing but reserve. I know 3-4 year CAís sitting on reserve. So if you want to be a CA in IAD itís going to be tough. Reserve as an FO is non existent at Mesa. The only time you sit reserve as an FO is if you miss the bid after IOE. 2-3 weeks is usually the norm around here.

Reserve life sucks everywhere. I commute for Mesa and never had a problem getting a jump or listing non rev on AA, yes PSA does get priority and D2 and what not, but seriously non issue. I even got to non rev to Tahiti being a Mesa pilot ;) another story.

CPP program is no joke at Mesa. The reason a lot of people donít get it from Mesa is because of prior busts and not meeting the requirements. I knew personally plenty of Mesa people who moved over to united and keep in mind our CPP program is 9 months old, and they all came from both CRJ and EJET.

Good thing about Mesa is if you are looking for working and getting flight time youíre golden. First year FOs are getting 700-800 hours a year working minimum not picking up. I know FOs who hustle and time out. Our FOs are also making more money than envoy. Skywest and PSA.

Our pilot group is different than PSA, envoy and SkyWest, if you were flying for PSA and then Flew for Mesa you would recognize that immediately.

Yeah, pay scale sucks! But ďmo money mo problemsĒ keep that in mind ;)

Overall, choose quality of life over anything. Donít plan on IAD as thereís a lot of chatter going on about us closing that as a base (maybe ejet coming in?) but this industry changes every nanosecond.

Hope this helped, you have any questions feel free to PM Me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FTN616
03-06-2019, 07:13 PM
I know of 3 one failed from republic the others multiple incidents and Checkride failures.



Sounds like a solid sample size. Must be a fact....... conversely one could argue you are the common denominator in that sampling.... if this comment went over your head K92, feel free to PM me for an in depth explanation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

20sx
03-07-2019, 04:23 AM
Thereís been around 10 people go to United out of 80 applicants for cpp. Not the best stats.

Next group looking better, but weíll see after their background checks (sick calls, perfect record, etc).

IMO, itís a marketing tool and not a serious interview process.

calmwinds
03-07-2019, 02:11 PM
Thereís been around 10 people go to United out of 80 applicants for cpp. Not the best stats.

Next group looking better, but weíll see after their background checks (sick calls, perfect record, etc).

IMO, itís a marketing tool and not a serious interview process.

I heard one out of three were made offers and are waiting on class dates.

flyguy727
03-13-2019, 04:23 AM
Which regional has the easiest commute? unless you plan to make a career out of it, they all pretty much the same. Get your time and move on.

chrisreedrules
03-13-2019, 10:56 AM
Ok, so here's the rub. I've got a start date with PSA in april. I'm living in Norfolk, and looking at the reserve times for FO and CA and debating jumping ship for Mesa. I'm wondering how much reserve time there is for Mesa, and if DC is a junior base that I could hold for my whole time of employment. Also, how's the company? I'm still reading through the forums to get my own read on what's going on. Just looking for anything direct from you guys.

Thanks

Honestly... You live in base at PSA. Go to PSA. Itís a Junior PSA base at that so you wonít be on reserve for long at all. If you live in base reserve is not bad at all. I know several pilots on reserve who pick up flying on their off days for extra pay and they still maintain 11-13 ďdays offĒ /month because you wonít get used on every single reserve period.

UPSPleaseHireMe
03-13-2019, 02:04 PM
I would go to PSA. Mesa doesnít pay as well.

No Land 3
03-13-2019, 06:25 PM
You need your head examined if you'd turn down living in base.

Tailwinds77
04-01-2019, 01:27 AM
Ok, so here's the rub. I've got a start date with PSA in april. I'm living in Norfolk, and looking at the reserve times for FO and CA and debating jumping ship for Mesa. I'm wondering how much reserve time there is for Mesa, and if DC is a junior base that I could hold for my whole time of employment. Also, how's the company? I'm still reading through the forums to get my own read on what's going on. Just looking for anything direct from you guys.

Thanks

You do realize that starting pay at Mesa drops from $36 an hour to $31 as of July 13 2019. Look at the contract, New hire first officer pay will drop to $31 as of date of signing of new contract +2 years. Contract was signed July 13 2017. Also, Mesa has lost a lot of flying as of 2 months ago. You will sit reserve.

pangolin
04-01-2019, 01:42 AM
You do realize that starting pay at Mesa drops from $36 an hour to $31 as of July 13 2019. Look at the contract, New hire first officer pay will drop to $31 as of date of signing of new contract +2 years. Contract was signed July 13 2017. Also, Mesa has lost a lot of flying as of 2 months ago. You will sit reserve.

Donít believe everything you read. FO initial pay does reduce each year after DOS but if you are hired at 34 - the current rate - itíll never go below that.

As far as lost flying - no. Fewer pairings but longer legs yes - on the American side. United side increased flying. Yes we have reserves - thank goodness - but the reserve period is in months not years and you will fly on reserve unlike some carriers. We barely have enough. In fact we donít have enough.

terks43
04-01-2019, 03:09 AM
You do realize that starting pay at Mesa drops from $36 an hour to $31 as of July 13 2019. Look at the contract, New hire first officer pay will drop to $31 as of date of signing of new contract +2 years. Contract was signed July 13 2017. Also, Mesa has lost a lot of flying as of 2 months ago. You will sit reserve.

You people actually voted in a contract that did this? Unbelievable.

Sennant
04-01-2019, 03:22 AM
You do realize that starting pay at Mesa drops from $36 an hour to $31 as of July 13 2019. Look at the contract, New hire first officer pay will drop to $31 as of date of signing of new contract +2 years. Contract was signed July 13 2017. Also, Mesa has lost a lot of flying as of 2 months ago. You will sit reserve.

And if you further read the contract. The company can extend that rate year after year with a notice to the union. Which, as discussed on the conference call, is coming.

Brody
04-01-2019, 07:48 AM
You people actually voted in a contract that did this? Unbelievable.

Our MEC recommended that we vote 'yes.'

For a descending starting pay scale.

I never thought I'd see the day where pilots and their pathetic excuse for a union would stoop that low. This is nothing more than a race to the bottom.

Hope y'all enjoyed that free cheeseburger

Southern Fried
04-01-2019, 09:35 AM
Decreasing pay scale. Holy crap.
Another reason I don't defend Mesa pilots to other pilots.

pangolin
04-01-2019, 09:53 AM
Honestly... You live in base at PSA. Go to PSA. Itís a Junior PSA base at that so you wonít be on reserve for long at all. If you live in base reserve is not bad at all. I know several pilots on reserve who pick up flying on their off days for extra pay and they still maintain 11-13 ďdays offĒ /month because you wonít get used on every single reserve period.

You can hold IAD with MESA but itís not certain we will have it at all after August.

No Land 3
04-01-2019, 12:56 PM
Mesa MEC = J.O.

Brody
04-01-2019, 02:33 PM
Decreasing pay scale. Holy crap.
Another reason I don't defend Mesa pilots to other pilots.

In fairness to many (if not most) Mesa pilots, they came here to get their hours and move on. The fact that so few are chosen by legacy carriers (or other premium flying jobs) isn't their fault.

I also don't trust union election results (including contract vote tallying). I was involved in union issues with another company, and have seen how easily this process is manipulated. I strongly believe the MEC level at Mesa is infested with those whose allegiance is to management first.

A far bigger problem is that the legacies hire so few from Mesa. I'm sure this is also a problem at other regionals, but it's REALLY bad at Mesa.

pangolin
04-01-2019, 03:16 PM
A far bigger problem is that the legacies hire so few from Mesa. I'm sure this is also a problem at other regionals, but it's REALLY bad at Mesa.

Whatís your definition of legacy?

UA DL AA? We have our fair share going to LCCs and SWA.

As far as the contract goes Iím half way up the seniority list. I wasnít allowed to vote as I was probationary. That means over half the pilots here had no say in this contract. So letís not stigmatize the whole group. (No saying you did - the person you replied to was doing that)

Sniper66
04-01-2019, 03:30 PM
Mesa MEC = J.O.




You used to have a good MEC that was not JO
You used to have an MEC Chair that JO hated him and that was a good thing.
He went to a Legacy I think or maybe an LCC

pangolin
04-01-2019, 04:06 PM
Donít believe everything you read. FO initial pay does reduce each year after DOS but if you are hired at 34 - the current rate - itíll never go below that.

As far as lost flying - no. Fewer pairings but longer legs yes - on the American side. United side increased flying. Yes we have reserves - thank goodness - but the reserve period is in months not years and you will fly on reserve unlike some carriers. We barely have enough. In fact we donít have enough.

Correcting myself. It never went to 34. Itís 36 presently. It may well decrease for existing FO as well. Could be motivation to upgrade.

Southern Fried
04-01-2019, 05:36 PM
...

As far as the contract goes I’m half way up the seniority list. I wasn’t allowed to vote as I was probationary. That means over half the pilots here had no say in this contract. So let’s not stigmatize the whole group. (No saying you did - the person you replied to was doing that)

Hi, I'm that person. Thanks for opening the door!

You didn't address me directly but that's ok. Here we go.

I've been a pilot since 1980, including 11 years as an Army Aviator. Been a regional jet pilot since 2001. Captain since 2005. Furloughed after 9-11. Saw first hand how Skypest began it's destruction of XJT in 2008 when their bid to buy us failed because we wouldn't give up scope. BTW, little known fact is that they were going to take a chunk of our 145s and furlough 700 of our pilots if we had given up scope.

Here we are now, on the upswing after getting out from under those awful people. All the while watching Mesa, with it's bottom feeding contract grow with brand new 175s at our expense no less.
You may wonder why I made that statement, "stigmatizing" the entire pilot group and not excluding you and the rest of the bottom half of the seniority list. It doesn't matter if you voted or are a new hire. The fact remains that what the Mesa pilots are and have been for over ten years is well known and documented. There is no excuse for not knowing what Mesa Airlines is. When you accepted employment with Mesa, you chose to ignore what they are for any number of self-serving reasons. Maybe they are the only airline that would hire you? I don't know and it doesn't matter. The fact is, you are there now, contributing to Mesa's cheap contract that enables management to underbid every other regional airline out there for new flying. You contribute to this by being an employee at Mesa.

So, half of the pilots didn't vote on your crappy contract. You will never be able to hide behind that excuse as long as you are employed there. In fact, you are permanently branded with that now as part of your employment history. Congratulations! You are just as much at fault as the pilots who voted for it.

After the Mesa pilots voted in their Bottom feeding contract well over ten years ago, every other airline management has waved that contract in the face of every other union pilot group trying to negotiate a better contract. Back then, I half-halfheartedly defended you guys because you did it to stop the whip-saw that JO was using against you, namely Freedom Airlines. You took it in the shorts to bring those scab-like Freedom pilots onto your seniority list and end that whip-saw. So, I gave Mesa a pilots a pass back then. Since then, you're pilot group has voted in how many bottom feeding contracts? I stopped counting. Needless to say, I don't defend Mesa pilots anymore.
Maybe you already knew all of that...

NovemberBravo
04-01-2019, 05:36 PM
Remember that contract barely passed somewhere between 50ish to 60%. Guys werenít patient JO couldnít wait to go public.

No Land 3
04-01-2019, 06:01 PM
Hi, I'm that person. Thanks for opening the door!

You didn't address me directly but that's ok. Here we go.

I've been a pilot since 1980, including 11 years as an Army Aviator. Been a regional jet pilot since 2001. Captain since 2005. Furloughed after 9-11. Saw first hand how Skypest began it's destruction of XJT in 2008 when their bid to buy us failed because we wouldn't give up scope. BTW, little known fact is that they were going to take a chunk of our 145s and furlough 700 of our pilots if we had given up scope.

Here we are now, on the upswing after getting out from under those awful people. All the while watching Mesa, with it's bottom feeding contract grow with brand new 175s at our expense no less.
You may wonder why I made that statement, "stigmatizing" the entire pilot group and not excluding you and the rest of the bottom half of the seniority list. It doesn't matter if you voted or are a new hire. The fact remains that what the Mesa pilots are and have been for over ten years is well known and documented. There is no excuse for not knowing what Mesa Airlines is. When you accepted employment with Mesa, you chose to ignore what they are for any number of self-serving reasons. Maybe they are the only airline that would hire you? I don't know and it doesn't matter. The fact is, you are there now, contributing to Mesa's cheap contract that enables management to underbid every other regional airline out there for new flying. You contribute to this by being an employee at Mesa.

So, half of the pilots didn't vote on your crappy contract. You will never be able to hide behind that excuse as long as you are employed there. In fact, you are permanently branded with that now as part of your employment history. Congratulations! You are just as much at fault as the pilots who voted for it.

After the Mesa pilots voted in their Bottom feeding contract well over ten years ago, every other airline management has waved that contract in the face of every other union pilot group trying to negotiate a better contract. Back then, I half-halfheartedly defended you guys because you did it to stop the whip-saw that JO was using against you, namely Freedom Airlines. You took it in the shorts to bring those scab-like Freedom pilots onto your seniority list and end that whip-saw. So, I gave Mesa a pilots a pass back then. Since then, you're pilot group has voted in how many bottom feeding contracts? I stopped counting. Needless to say, I don't defend Mesa pilots anymore.
Maybe you already knew all of that...
The fact remains, no one gives a damn outside the regional world, unless people like you are calling the shots in HR, but they aren't, because as soon as they move up, they stop caring too.

pangolin
04-01-2019, 06:32 PM
Hi, I'm that person. Thanks for opening the door!

You didn't address me directly but that's ok. Here we go.

I've been a pilot since 1980, including 11 years as an Army Aviator. Been a regional jet pilot since 2001. Captain since 2005. Furloughed after 9-11. Saw first hand how Skypest began it's destruction of XJT in 2008 when their bid to buy us failed because we wouldn't give up scope. BTW, little known fact is that they were going to take a chunk of our 145s and furlough 700 of our pilots if we had given up scope.

Here we are now, on the upswing after getting out from under those awful people. All the while watching Mesa, with it's bottom feeding contract grow with brand new 175s at our expense no less.
You may wonder why I made that statement, "stigmatizing" the entire pilot group and not excluding you and the rest of the bottom half of the seniority list. It doesn't matter if you voted or are a new hire. The fact remains that what the Mesa pilots are and have been for over ten years is well known and documented. There is no excuse for not knowing what Mesa Airlines is. When you accepted employment with Mesa, you chose to ignore what they are for any number of self-serving reasons. Maybe they are the only airline that would hire you? I don't know and it doesn't matter. The fact is, you are there now, contributing to Mesa's cheap contract that enables management to underbid every other regional airline out there for new flying. You contribute to this by being an employee at Mesa.

So, half of the pilots didn't vote on your crappy contract. You will never be able to hide behind that excuse as long as you are employed there. In fact, you are permanently branded with that now as part of your employment history. Congratulations! You are just as much at fault as the pilots who voted for it.

After the Mesa pilots voted in their Bottom feeding contract well over ten years ago, every other airline management has waved that contract in the face of every other union pilot group trying to negotiate a better contract. Back then, I half-halfheartedly defended you guys because you did it to stop the whip-saw that JO was using against you, namely Freedom Airlines. You took it in the shorts to bring those scab-like Freedom pilots onto your seniority list and end that whip-saw. So, I gave Mesa a pilots a pass back then. Since then, you're pilot group has voted in how many bottom feeding contracts? I stopped counting. Needless to say, I don't defend Mesa pilots anymore.
Maybe you already knew all of that...

You are delusional if you think thereís any intent by Mesa pilots as a whole to harm other regional pilots.

Hate me if you like.

Southern Fried
04-01-2019, 06:37 PM
You are delusional if you think thereís any intent by Mesa pilots as a whole to harm other regional pilots.

Hate me if you like.Wow. Thats what you got from that? Your reply is ironic. Of course there's no intent. You and your ilk are blinded by your ambition and/or desire to move up the ladder of your pilot career. The fact is, you don't care what your actions do to other pilot groups. If you did care, you wouldn't have accepted employment at Mesa.

pangolin
04-01-2019, 06:42 PM
Wow. Thats what you got from that? Your reply is ironic. Of course there's no intent. You and your ilk are blinded by your ambition and/or desire to move up the ladder of your pilot career. The fact is, you don't care what your actions do to other pilot groups. If you did care, you wouldn't have accepted employment at Mesa.

Iím pragmatic. You desire a level of altruism that is nonexistent. If you felt this way then you would not accept employment at any regional. Weíve already determined what we are. Now we are just negotiating the price.

Southern Fried
04-01-2019, 06:44 PM
Iím pragmatic. You desire a level of altruism that is nonexistent. If you felt this way then you would not accept employment at any regional. Weíve already determined what we are. Now we are just negotiating the price.Deflection with rationalization. Perfect.

FTN616
04-01-2019, 06:49 PM
Hi, I'm that person. Thanks for opening the door!

You didn't address me directly but that's ok. Here we go.

I've been a pilot since 1980, including 11 years as an Army Aviator. Been a regional jet pilot since 2001. Captain since 2005. Furloughed after 9-11. Saw first hand how Skypest began it's destruction of XJT in 2008 when their bid to buy us failed because we wouldn't give up scope. BTW, little known fact is that they were going to take a chunk of our 145s and furlough 700 of our pilots if we had given up scope.

Here we are now, on the upswing after getting out from under those awful people. All the while watching Mesa, with it's bottom feeding contract grow with brand new 175s at our expense no less.
You may wonder why I made that statement, "stigmatizing" the entire pilot group and not excluding you and the rest of the bottom half of the seniority list. It doesn't matter if you voted or are a new hire. The fact remains that what the Mesa pilots are and have been for over ten years is well known and documented. There is no excuse for not knowing what Mesa Airlines is. When you accepted employment with Mesa, you chose to ignore what they are for any number of self-serving reasons. Maybe they are the only airline that would hire you? I don't know and it doesn't matter. The fact is, you are there now, contributing to Mesa's cheap contract that enables management to underbid every other regional airline out there for new flying. You contribute to this by being an employee at Mesa.

So, half of the pilots didn't vote on your crappy contract. You will never be able to hide behind that excuse as long as you are employed there. In fact, you are permanently branded with that now as part of your employment history. Congratulations! You are just as much at fault as the pilots who voted for it.

After the Mesa pilots voted in their Bottom feeding contract well over ten years ago, every other airline management has waved that contract in the face of every other union pilot group trying to negotiate a better contract. Back then, I half-halfheartedly defended you guys because you did it to stop the whip-saw that JO was using against you, namely Freedom Airlines. You took it in the shorts to bring those scab-like Freedom pilots onto your seniority list and end that whip-saw. So, I gave Mesa a pilots a pass back then. Since then, you're pilot group has voted in how many bottom feeding contracts? I stopped counting. Needless to say, I don't defend Mesa pilots anymore.
Maybe you already knew all of that...



You were prior Army??? You sound like a whiny B***h. Glad we didnít serve together.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pangolin
04-01-2019, 08:28 PM
Deflection with rationalization. Perfect.

I sleep just fine.

Flyboy68
04-01-2019, 09:00 PM
Wow. Thats what you got from that? Your reply is ironic. Of course there's no intent. You and your ilk are blinded by your ambition and/or desire to move up the ladder of your pilot career. The fact is, you don't care what your actions do to other pilot groups. If you did care, you wouldn't have accepted employment at Mesa.
Damn man, paint with a broad brush donít we? Iíd say that 99.9% of regional pilots are guilty of your bolded statement. Who the hell in the regionals doesnít accept a job to ďmove up the ladder of their pilot careerĒ? Youíre expectations of altruism from other regional pilots is irrational and unrealistic.

I recently accepted a class date with Mesa, knowing about their warts and all, because they can guarantee me a base thatís an easy commute, an immediate class date, and when I upgrade, Iíll be able to remain at the same base. I know the pay is less than other regionals, but itís a trade off for an easy commute.

Youíre expecting way too much from others.

Southern Fried
04-02-2019, 02:28 AM
You were prior Army??? You sound like a whiny B***h. Glad we didnít serve together.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkEnjoy your time racing to the bottom. I chose to not be a PC Snowflake and hide in the shadows. When you have seen what I have come back and talk smack. Until then, enjoy a nice hot cup of **** served by your CEO. Truth hurts: Mesa = Bottom Feeder

Southern Fried
04-02-2019, 02:29 AM
I sleep just fine.I'm sure you do.

Southern Fried
04-02-2019, 02:33 AM
Damn man, paint with a broad brush donít we? Iíd say that 99.9% of regional pilots are guilty of your bolded statement. Who the hell in the regionals doesnít accept a job to ďmove up the ladder of their pilot careerĒ? Youíre expectations of altruism from other regional pilots is irrational and unrealistic.

I recently accepted a class date with Mesa, knowing about their warts and all, because they can guarantee me a base thatís an easy commute, an immediate class date, and when I upgrade, Iíll be able to remain at the same base. I know the pay is less than other regionals, but itís a trade off for an easy commute.

Youíre expecting way too much from others.Rationalize all you want. You are enabling JO to undercut all other regional pilot groups. You misinterpreted what I said about ladder climbing and took it out of context. I don't begrudge anyone moving up the ladder. Its the fact you did/do it from Mesa that I object to.

backtoregionals
04-02-2019, 05:48 AM
Rationalize all you want. You are enabling JO to undercut all other regional pilot groups. You misinterpreted what I said about ladder climbing and took it out of context. I don't begrudge anyone moving up the ladder. Its the fact you did/do it from Mesa that I object to.

Whatís the difference in Mesa, PSA, C5, etc?? All regional CEOs are dirt cheap. Why would anyone in their right mind who lives in base for Mesa commute for another regional? Youíve apparently never commuted hub to hub.

Southern Fried
04-02-2019, 08:04 AM
Whatís the difference in Mesa, PSA, C5, etc?? All regional CEOs are dirt cheap. Why would anyone in their right mind who lives in base for Mesa commute for another regional? Youíve apparently never commuted hub to hub.The difference is their Alpa contract. Commutair's is still developing as they are relatively new o Alpa. Mesa pilots have continued to roll over and not raise the bar. It is what it is but you know what it is before you choose to work there. Mesa is not the only game in town. You talk about commuting. Yes, I have commuted hub to hub and otherwise for years in fact. All you can do is rationalize because you know your wrong to be lowering the bar on an on-going basis. If you're not working to fix the problem, you're contributing to it. By continually voting in a substandard contract you do nothing to fix it.

pangolin
04-02-2019, 08:10 AM
Rationalize all you want. You are enabling JO to undercut all other regional pilot groups. You misinterpreted what I said about ladder climbing and took it out of context. I don't begrudge anyone moving up the ladder. Its the fact you did/do it from Mesa that I object to.

Somebodyís always at the bottom. Itís not always Mesa. Itís not Mesa today it could be tomorrow. When the last contract passed we were no longer at the bottom and Iíd argue our reserve rules are better than most and our premium pay better than all.

So if you are riding any of the regional horses it can be argued you are enabling the problem. Including you. Like I said - thatís not the argument. Itís only the price we are debating.

pangolin
04-02-2019, 08:20 AM
The difference is their Alpa contract. Commutair's is still developing as they are relatively new o Alpa. Mesa pilots have continued to roll over and not raise the bar. It is what it is but you know what it is before you choose to work there. Mesa is not the only game in town. You talk about commuting. Yes, I have commuted hub to hub and otherwise for years in fact. All you can do is rationalize because you know your wrong to be lowering the bar on an on-going basis. If you're not working to fix the problem, you're contributing to it. By continually voting in a substandard contract you do nothing to fix it.

You seem pretty passionate. So hereís a deal for you. Come to Mesa. Volunteer on the negotiating committeee. Take the fight directly to JO.

backtoregionals
04-02-2019, 09:37 AM
Somebodyís always at the bottom. Itís not always Mesa. Itís not Mesa today it could be tomorrow. When the last contract passed we were no longer at the bottom and Iíd argue our reserve rules are better than most and our premium pay better than all.

So if you are riding any of the regional horses it can be argued you are enabling the problem. Including you. Like I said - thatís not the argument. Itís only the price we are debating.

Our reserve rules are not better than most. Xjet has very strict limits on amount of ready reserve. Theirís is limited to 4 or 5 hours, and they can only get it once per block of reserve days...not every damnmmm day like here. They also have an actual crew room, not a storage room like we do. Republic doesnít have ready. Our aggressive pickup has yet to be implemented. We also should not be required to sit on ready reserve after beginning our day out of base.

jrwit
04-02-2019, 11:29 AM
.... You and your ilk are blinded by your ambition and/or desire to move up the ladder of your pilot career. The fact is, you don't care what your actions do to other pilot groups. If you did care, you wouldn't have accepted employment at Mesa.


...
So, half of the pilots didn't vote on your crappy contract. You will never be able to hide behind that excuse as long as you are employed there. In fact, you are permanently branded with that now as part of your employment history.

Maybe you already knew all of that...


So uhhhhhh, where do you work that's so great?

You do realize that a majority of regional guys are using whatever regional of choice as a stepping stone...right?


The fact remains, no one gives a damn outside the regional world, unless people like you are calling the shots in HR, but they aren't, because as soon as they move up, they stop caring too.


100000% I've flown with 5 or 6 guys in the past few months who were Mesa->America West

Sit down in plane.
CA: "Where were ya before this?"
Me: "Mesa"
CA: "Cool. Glad you made it out. So you got a wifenkids?"

pangolin
04-02-2019, 11:42 AM
Our reserve rules are not better than most. Xjet has very strict limits on amount of ready reserve. Theirís is limited to 4 or 5 hours, and they can only get it once per block of reserve days...not every damnmmm day like here. They also have an actual crew room, not a storage room like we do. Republic doesnít have ready. Our aggressive pickup has yet to be implemented. We also should not be required to sit on ready reserve after beginning our day out of base.

Ask for the aggressive pickup within the window. If not granted then grieve it. Thatís how we get it fixed.

FTN616
04-02-2019, 01:24 PM
Ask for the aggressive pickup within the window. If not granted then grieve it. Thatís how we get it fixed.



Since we are on the subject why should we be ďgrieving itĒ to fix it. Itís in the contract. Iíve heard that from probably 20 different captains and union reps to grieve it. I submitted to this day 10 grievances on that very subject. Not one has a single acknowledgment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sennant
04-02-2019, 01:30 PM
Since we are on the subject why should we be ďgrieving itĒ to fix it. Itís in the contract. Iíve heard that from probably 20 different captains and union reps to grieve it. I submitted to this day 10 grievances on that very subject. Not one has a single acknowledgment.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Because thatís how the rla (I.e. law) works.

Brody
04-02-2019, 01:34 PM
Our reserve rules are not better than most. Xjet has very strict limits on amount of ready reserve. Theirís is limited to 4 or 5 hours, and they can only get it once per block of reserve days...not every damnmmm day like here. They also have an actual crew room, not a storage room like we do. Republic doesnít have ready. Our aggressive pickup has yet to be implemented. We also should not be required to sit on ready reserve after beginning our day out of base.

Our reserve rules are punitive.

On top of that, come back from a LOA - regardless of your seniority - and you're automatically placed on reserve for a month (or longer). Six days on - two days off - six days on. Ready reserve on several of those days - even if you're on the top of the seniority list. If you're a commuter, you lose money.

Not to worry - ALPA will work HARD to collect your dues money each month.

After that, though, they roll over on their backs so JO can tickle their bellies

FTN616
04-02-2019, 01:45 PM
Because thatís how the rla (I.e. law) works.



ďWorksĒ infers results so clearly not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dera
04-02-2019, 05:44 PM
Republic doesnít have ready.

Republic does have ready, they are just so overstaffed as of now that they haven't needed it. But it's in the contract.

backtoregionals
04-03-2019, 07:09 AM
Republic does have ready, they are just so overstaffed as of now that they haven't needed it. But it's in the contract.

Interesting. My friend there told me they donít even have it.

chrisreedrules
04-03-2019, 07:38 AM
How many of the Mesa Eagle 900s are actually owned by Mesa?

NovemberBravo
04-03-2019, 08:05 AM
How many of the Mesa Eagle 900s are actually owned by Mesa?

Looks like we own 48 and lease 16.

chrisreedrules
04-03-2019, 08:09 AM
Looks like we own 48 and lease 16.

Thanks... And what is going on with Mesa parking 6 CRJ900s for Eagle?

NovemberBravo
04-03-2019, 08:29 AM
Thanks... And what is going on with Mesa parking 6 CRJ900s for Eagle?

Using 2 as spares for maintenance theyíll still get used.

ESQ702
04-03-2019, 08:35 AM
Somebodyís always at the bottom. Itís not always Mesa. Itís not Mesa today it could be tomorrow. When the last contract passed we were no longer at the bottom and Iíd argue our reserve rules are better than most and our premium pay better than all.

So if you are riding any of the regional horses it can be argued you are enabling the problem. Including you. Like I said - thatís not the argument. Itís only the price we are debating.

Who would you rank at the bottom as far as regionals go? Mesa gets so much hate around here I figured they were it.

NovemberBravo
04-03-2019, 08:56 AM
Who would you rank at the bottom as far as regionals go? Mesa gets so much hate around here I figured they were it.

I honestly thought Gojet.

Southern Fried
04-03-2019, 09:10 AM
Who would you rank at the bottom as far as regionals go? Mesa gets so much hate around here I figured they were it.

Depends on what your focus is. If it's other than pay rates, here's mine:

Mesa/Gojet
Skywest

Skywest on the bottom. You may be able to see that Contract and Union history is my focus. The history, current state, and working conditions of these regional airlines is a major influence. For me, Skywest will always be at the bottom and I would never advise anyone to go there.

pangolin
04-03-2019, 09:23 AM
Thanks... And what is going on with Mesa parking 6 CRJ900s for Eagle?

They only get parked if Mesa doesn't meet AA new on time performance numbers. Right now it's looking pretty dismal that we will do it because of staffing. However it's not set in stone either. They have the OPTION to do it. The idea being that if we can't staff airframes get reduced until we can and until we have sufficient spares to not have long maint delays or cancellations because we have no working airplanes. These planes are getting old - but MX is generally a lot better in the last few months. I expect us to meet the numbers if we get staff. Here comes 300% - or more.

Sennant
04-03-2019, 09:42 AM
Thanks... And what is going on with Mesa parking 6 CRJ900s for Eagle?

Weíre not parking 6 aircraft, so nothing.

chrisreedrules
04-03-2019, 10:17 AM
Weíre not parking 6 aircraft, so nothing.

Okay I thought I remembered reading that somewhere... Disregard!

ninerdriver
04-03-2019, 10:40 AM
Who would you rank at the bottom as far as regionals go? Mesa gets so much hate around here I figured they were it.

There are actually a few. Definitely GoJet, and probably TSA.

Depending on your view of the flow to AA, Piedmont might belong on this list, too. Does a flow to AA outweigh having to put up with that **** for ten years?

ESQ702
04-03-2019, 12:39 PM
Depends on what your focus is. If it's other than pay rates, here's mine:

Mesa/Gojet
Skywest

Skywest on the bottom. You may be able to see that Contract and Union history is my focus. The history, current state, and working conditions of these regional airlines is a major influence. For me, Skywest will always be at the bottom and I would never advise anyone to go there.

You're not the first one I've seen to warn against OO b/c of the lack of a union contract. I was talking recently with a SWA FO who spoke about how valuable a good union contract is. Makes sense.

No Land 3
04-03-2019, 01:24 PM
You're not the first one I've seen to warn against OO b/c of the lack of a union contract. I was talking recently with a SWA FO who spoke about how valuable a good union contract is. Makes sense.

Well, look at Western Global in the ACMI world. They make decent money but no contract. If Atlas was to buy them tomorrow, nothing protects the pilots and payrates. Atlas could decide to pay them what ever they wanted.

dera
04-03-2019, 09:08 PM
Interesting. My friend there told me they donít even have it.

He's wrong. It's in the contract. They just haven't used it. But they can if they want.

pangolin
04-03-2019, 09:19 PM
He's wrong. It's in the contract. They just haven't used it. But they can if they want.

PSA just announced a new contract with great rates.

dera
04-03-2019, 09:21 PM
PSA just announced a new contract with great rates.

Yes they did. 100% irrelevant to the post you quoted though, I was talking about Republic and ready reserve.

PSA is a great choice right now - good pay, flow, and SAP.

SpeedyT
04-03-2019, 10:26 PM
Interesting. Meanwhile from the last conference call, FO pay rates maybe? will be reduced per contract.

avi8tor614
04-04-2019, 04:34 AM
Wow. Thats what you got from that? Your reply is ironic. Of course there's no intent. You and your ilk are blinded by your ambition and/or desire to move up the ladder of your pilot career. The fact is, you don't care what your actions do to other pilot groups. If you did care, you wouldn't have accepted employment at Mesa.

I admire your service to our country THANK YOU SINCERELY, I really mean that. Let me explain it to you why there are people at Mesa. Yes there are pilots with issues at our company. GUESS WHAT there are ones at majors as well, with DUIs and crashes. I wanted to put that out there before you put that in your response. There are also people like myself who could not get on with a major because I did not have 121 time. Never mind the 1000s of corporate jet time I had. Military guys get a pass why couldn't I. I have no issue with that they are military men. THEY DESERVE TO go to the front of the line. This pushes me and guys like me to the back of the line when there is no demand for pilots. Fine I'm OK with it. Mesa had no reserve when I came here it was straight to the line. Pay sucks hereI wish it was better I'll give you that. BUT I will tell you I'm happy to come to work. Mesa is not as bad as people think. I'm trying to get out been trying the last few years. Guess what I'm not getting called. I DON'T HAVE DUI'S OR MULTIPLE FAILURES OR WHATEVER ELSE some one says I have that is not getting me hired . I have multiple UAexcellence awards, I'm a great co-worker to my flight team, I have more recommendations and serice awards than I can count plus I am handsome :) Lol. Yet I am still here and watch people without degrees, poor work ethic, less time, less experience get jobs I want. I almost went to Norwegian YES Norwegian Why because because my American Brothers and sisters won't hire me, but a foreign carrier will. There are tons of us at Mesa like this. Then to have some honorable guy like you come and diss the only place to give me a shot. How dare you. Mesa isn't broken it's a business doing what businesses do make money. What's broken is the system and fellow pilots like you who choose to poo poo on my decision to come here. I was too tall for a pilot slot in the airforce that was my disqualifier. Passed every test, met all educational requirement. But I was handicapped by something I can't control, if I was two inches shorter I'd been at a major ten years or more ago, you were lucky and got little boost work your military histor once again thank you. I can't make Delta, American, or United hire me. It's ashame. Being a good pilot is just 20% of what makes me, the other 80%I am dam good person surrounded by dam good people at my company. Cr appy contract yes voted in by a majority of the people who have not been here that long. Not by people who blood sweat and tears in this place. Your not here so I don't expect you to understand the dynamics of my company. It's not Mesa is doing just fine. Our work environment is fine. I know people more than 10 Lol who have moved on from Mesa and they miss it. They just don't miss the crappy pay
And the union antics.

pangolin
04-04-2019, 06:59 AM
Interesting. Meanwhile from the last conference call, FO pay rates maybe? will be reduced per contract.

The company has the option not to do that and even if so - in no case will an existing fo have their pay reduced.

pangolin
04-04-2019, 07:05 AM
I admire your service to our country THANK YOU SINCERELY, I really mean that. Let me explain it to you why there are people at Mesa. Yes there are pilots with issues at our company. GUESS WHAT there are ones at majors as well, with DUIs and crashes. I wanted to put that out there before you put that in your response. There are also people like myself who could not get on with a major because I did not have 121 time. Never mind the 1000s of corporate jet time I had. Military guys get a pass why couldn't I. I have no issue with that they are military men. THEY DESERVE TO go to the front of the line. This pushes me and guys like me to the back of the line when there is no demand for pilots. Fine I'm OK with it. Mesa had no reserve when I came here it was straight to the line. Pay sucks hereI wish it was better I'll give you that. BUT I will tell you I'm happy to come to work. Mesa is not as bad as people think. I'm trying to get out been trying the last few years. Guess what I'm not getting called. I DON'T HAVE DUI'S OR MULTIPLE FAILURES OR WHATEVER ELSE some one says I have that is not getting me hired . I have multiple UAexcellence awards, I'm a great co-worker to my flight team, I have more recommendations and serice awards than I can count plus I am handsome :) Lol. Yet I am still here and watch people without degrees, poor work ethic, less time, less experience get jobs I want. I almost went to Norwegian YES Norwegian Why because because my American Brothers and sisters won't hire me, but a foreign carrier will. There are tons of us at Mesa like this. Then to have some honorable guy like you come and diss the only place to give me a shot. How dare you. Mesa isn't broken it's a business doing what businesses do make money. What's broken is the system and fellow pilots like you who choose to poo poo on my decision to come here. I was too tall for a pilot slot in the airforce that was my disqualifier. Passed every test, met all educational requirement. But I was handicapped by something I can't control, if I was two inches shorter I'd been at a major ten years or more ago, you were lucky and got little boost work your military histor once again thank you. I can't make Delta, American, or United hire me. It's ashame. Being a good pilot is just 20% of what makes me, the other 80%I am dam good person surrounded by dam good people at my company. Cr appy contract yes voted in by a majority of the people who have not been here that long. Not by people who blood sweat and tears in this place. Your not here so I don't expect you to understand the dynamics of my company. It's not Mesa is doing just fine. Our work environment is fine. I know people more than 10 Lol who have moved on from Mesa and they miss it. They just don't miss the crappy pay
And the union antics.

Bravo. The employees at Mesa are the best most caring and understanding people I have ever worked with. Youíll get the ďthere must be something wrong with you if you canít get hiredĒ responses. Remember it says more about them than it does about you.

No Land 3
04-04-2019, 09:41 AM
I admire your service to our country THANK YOU SINCERELY, I really mean that. Let me explain it to you why there are people at Mesa. Yes there are pilots with issues at our company. GUESS WHAT there are ones at majors as well, with DUIs and crashes. I wanted to put that out there before you put that in your response. There are also people like myself who could not get on with a major because I did not have 121 time. Never mind the 1000s of corporate jet time I had. Military guys get a pass why couldn't I. I have no issue with that they are military men. THEY DESERVE TO go to the front of the line. This pushes me and guys like me to the back of the line when there is no demand for pilots. Fine I'm OK with it. Mesa had no reserve when I came here it was straight to the line. Pay sucks hereI wish it was better I'll give you that. BUT I will tell you I'm happy to come to work. Mesa is not as bad as people think. I'm trying to get out been trying the last few years. Guess what I'm not getting called. I DON'T HAVE DUI'S OR MULTIPLE FAILURES OR WHATEVER ELSE some one says I have that is not getting me hired . I have multiple UAexcellence awards, I'm a great co-worker to my flight team, I have more recommendations and serice awards than I can count plus I am handsome :) Lol. Yet I am still here and watch people without degrees, poor work ethic, less time, less experience get jobs I want. I almost went to Norwegian YES Norwegian Why because because my American Brothers and sisters won't hire me, but a foreign carrier will. There are tons of us at Mesa like this. Then to have some honorable guy like you come and diss the only place to give me a shot. How dare you. Mesa isn't broken it's a business doing what businesses do make money. What's broken is the system and fellow pilots like you who choose to poo poo on my decision to come here. I was too tall for a pilot slot in the airforce that was my disqualifier. Passed every test, met all educational requirement. But I was handicapped by something I can't control, if I was two inches shorter I'd been at a major ten years or more ago, you were lucky and got little boost work your military histor once again thank you. I can't make Delta, American, or United hire me. It's ashame. Being a good pilot is just 20% of what makes me, the other 80%I am dam good person surrounded by dam good people at my company. Cr appy contract yes voted in by a majority of the people who have not been here that long. Not by people who blood sweat and tears in this place. Your not here so I don't expect you to understand the dynamics of my company. It's not Mesa is doing just fine. Our work environment is fine. I know people more than 10 Lol who have moved on from Mesa and they miss it. They just don't miss the crappy pay
And the union antics.

Did you sign up for a resume service? There are services out there that will get your resume past the computer firewall and have a set of human eyes looking at it. Some of them are even connected to people on the inside to get you an interview.
You must also get an interview prep service so you know exactly what to say and how to behave.
The resume prep service will also tell you what you might need to fix or add to your credentials.
So many people take this advice the wrong way, take it personally as a failure on their part to do all the correct things. It shouldn't be, none of this comes natural to most people, sure as heck not to me.

Southern Fried
04-04-2019, 11:38 AM
I don't expect the Mesa pilots to understand. The mere fact that you are there explains where your head is at. You're an Alpa pilot group. Despite that you continue to accept substandard contracts that undercut your brothers at other regionals, thereby putting their jobs at risk. Should I applaud you for that? Of course not. By accepting employment there, you agree to the terms of the contract and all of it's ramifications.

I'm just pointing out the truth. I can't help it if you don't like it. When you make your bed, you have to lay in it.

pangolin
04-04-2019, 11:44 AM
I don't expect the Mesa pilots to understand. The mere fact that you are there explains where your head is at. You're an Alpa pilot group. Despite that you continue to accept substandard contracts that undercut your brothers at other regionals, thereby putting their jobs at risk. Should I applaud you for that? Of course not. By accepting employment there, you agree to the terms of the contract and all of it's ramifications.

I'm just pointing out the truth. I can't help it if you don't like it. When you make your bed, you have to lay in it.

Dude. You must like attention. Move on. Neither one of us was involved with this. We didnít do what you accuse us of. Take your axe and grind it somewhere else.

airspeedsalive
04-04-2019, 12:21 PM
I don't expect the Mesa pilots to understand. The mere fact that you are there explains where your head is at. You're an Alpa pilot group. Despite that you continue to accept substandard contracts that undercut your brothers at other regionals, thereby putting their jobs at risk. Should I applaud you for that? Of course not. By accepting employment there, you agree to the terms of the contract and all of it's ramifications.

I'm just pointing out the truth. I can't help it if you don't like it. When you make your bed, you have to lay in it.


Youíre ****ty regional is better than my ****ty regional. Got it, time to move on.

brigadeaviator
04-04-2019, 12:33 PM
I don't expect the Mesa pilots to understand. The mere fact that you are there explains where your head is at. You're an Alpa pilot group. Despite that you continue to accept substandard contracts that undercut your brothers at other regionals, thereby putting their jobs at risk. Should I applaud you for that? Of course not. By accepting employment there, you agree to the terms of the contract and all of it's ramifications.

I'm just pointing out the truth. I can't help it if you don't like it. When you make your bed, you have to lay in it.

I see this all the time,Ē I heard YV is this and that and they make you do...Ē all from here say and most likely from someone who doesnít work or has worked here. Iím glad YV and OO are at the bottom of your ďlist.Ē Id rather you work with that perception and attitude else where.

No Land 3
04-04-2019, 12:50 PM
I'm just pointing out the truth. I can't help it if you don't like it. When you make your bed, you have to lay in it.
The truth is that by accepting a job at another regional with a better contract only gave you gains in the short term. The truth is that you lost out on more money by taking a longer path to upgrade, get your 1000 TPIC and moving on. The truth is(YMMV) getting in, getting your time and moving out of the regionals as quickly as possible is the only true path one should aim for.
The hardest truth of all, you, by staying at a regional longer, only reinforces the fact and situation that all regionals are nothing more than a B pay scale, doing the same exact job as mainline.
So why don't you take your "mightier than thou" attitude, reflect upon it, and realize just how much of a tool you come across as?

Sniper66
04-04-2019, 10:59 PM
Southern fried



You are so full of when what
I don’t know where to start
The corruption within your last few MECs speaks about your s—— commuter

Some got investigated by alpa for misuse of funds
Some getting fired by a major on probation
Forget it I don’t want to write more

Your pay ?
Are you kidding me , did you pay 10k to buy your job to make 11 dollars per hour as a new First officer or PFT was done when you got hired (2001 if my memory serves me correct)

And if so why arent you at a major yet
United hires 35 from express jet i was told (thanks to the agreement of course )

Go away
All regionals suck period
Get your time and move on


BTW
23 year ALPA current member,
spend 12 years at a regional out of the 23
in case you ask, and yes I work for one of the 3

20sx
04-05-2019, 09:08 AM
Interesting. Meanwhile from the last conference call, FO pay rates maybe? will be reduced per contract.

FO pay rates arenít being reduced. Union was already notified.

Flyboy68
04-05-2019, 08:07 PM
The truth is that by accepting a job at another regional with a better contract only gave you gains in the short term. The truth is that you lost out on more money by taking a longer path to upgrade, get your 1000 TPIC and moving on. The truth is(YMMV) getting in, getting your time and moving out of the regionals as quickly as possible is the only true path one should aim for.
The hardest truth of all, you, by staying at a regional longer, only reinforces the fact and situation that all regionals are nothing more than a B pay scale, doing the same exact job as mainline.
So why don't you take your "mightier than thou" attitude, reflect upon it, and realize just how much of a tool you come across as?
Bravo!

http://i.gifer.com/10EN.gif

maxjet
04-07-2019, 04:44 PM
I'm just pointing out the truth. I can't help it if you don't like it. When you make your bed, you have to lay in it.

Couple of issues with your view point.

One, why are you still at a regional? You do realize that by staying there that you are doing more than a mainline pilots work for less than half the pay. You lifers are one of the reasons the commuters don’t have to hire as much, you relieve the hiring pressure on them and keep those jobs from flowing to mainline.

Two, your revisionist account of the history of Mesa is shocking. Most of your readers were not there so they tend to believe your mistruths. Pilots who were there and have moved on to much greener pastures know it was a very different environment. Was it good? No, but not nearly what you make it to be.

When you get Legacy pay for your position at your little Barbie jet airline, then come and preach to the masses. I know I will be the first one to buy you a steak dinner. Until then you will always be the boat anchor that holds mainline pay down.

You remind me of Susan Sarandon in Bull Durham.

ESQ702
04-08-2019, 11:44 AM
The truth is that by accepting a job at another regional with a better contract only gave you gains in the short term. The truth is that you lost out on more money by taking a longer path to upgrade, get your 1000 TPIC and moving on. The truth is(YMMV) getting in, getting your time and moving out of the regionals as quickly as possible is the only true path one should aim for.
The hardest truth of all, you, by staying at a regional longer, only reinforces the fact and situation that all regionals are nothing more than a B pay scale, doing the same exact job as mainline.
So why don't you take your "mightier than thou" attitude, reflect upon it, and realize just how much of a tool you come across as?

I totally agree with this, but I've seen enough stuff on APC to wonder if I'd really have a harder time getting to a legacy or LCC if I'm at Mesa. It seems like Mesa would be at least near the top of the list for getting off of reserve as a SIC and moving to PIC time, which is obviously appealing, but if no one will hire me because of Mesa then I'm shooting myself in the foot. I honestly don't know what the answer is to that issue, but I'd love to go to Mesa just because of the West coast bases (I'm in Vegas).

Champ1946
04-08-2019, 07:05 PM
I was at Mesa for almost 13 years. Took me 8 years to upgrade. Once I upgraded 80 percent of my FOs were PSA failures. Mesa has some of the best people in the world though. Really good people. The old CC Air guys there were good ole country boys. Anyways I left there to go to PSA. Mainly to get Knoxville and to one day flow. But a regional airline is pretty much the same. Same circus different tent. But Mesa is on the bottom as far as pay and the way the company treats you. I did see a difference at PSA as far as the way management treats you. The training here is no joke though. They will fail you if you screw up which worries me. I studied my tail off. When I got to PSA and traveled for the first time as a D1 on AA I thought I was a King lol. If your in ORF itís a no brainer. ORF is our most junior base for FO and CA and we have a true flow to a major. Keep in mind I interviewed at Frontier, Atlas, Omni, Spirit 2 times. Did 2 job fairs and 2 interview preps and got turned down by all except Omni. I have never failed anything and got my 4 year 2 years ago. I could not do another interview and get a no. It was killing me. Omni offered me a class date when I was doing IOE at PSA and I turned it down. At the time I justified it because I did not want to pay the bonus back to PSA. I wander if it was the rite move... but if you want to be at home then do ORF with PSA

maxjet
04-08-2019, 07:37 PM
I totally agree with this, but I've seen enough stuff on APC to wonder if I'd really have a harder time getting to a legacy or LCC if I'm at Mesa. It seems like Mesa would be at least near the top of the list for getting off of reserve as a SIC and moving to PIC time, which is obviously appealing, but if no one will hire me because of Mesa then I'm shooting myself in the foot. I honestly don't know what the answer is to that issue, but I'd love to go to Mesa just because of the West coast bases (I'm in Vegas).

I may be wrong, but I do not ever recall reading or hearing that a major, or anyone else, ever turned down a Mesa pilot, solely because they had worked at Mesa. Nobody outside of APC cares where you got your 121 jet time from.

Sniper66
04-08-2019, 08:19 PM
I may be wrong, but I do not ever recall reading or hearing that a major, or anyone else, ever turned down a Mesa pilot, solely because they had worked at Mesa. Nobody outside of APC cares where you got your 121 jet time from.





Only freedom A pilots. Yes them and I still have the list send to me by a Mesa MEC guy back at the day (2002)
Many of them got turned down by ALPA majors. Never forget them back stabbers

Melit
04-09-2019, 03:22 AM
I was at Mesa for almost 13 years. Took me 8 years to upgrade. Once I upgraded 80 percent of my FOs were PSA failures. Mesa has some of the best people in the world though. Really good people. The old CC Air guys there were good ole country boys. Anyways I left there to go to PSA. Mainly to get Knoxville and to one day flow. But a regional airline is pretty much the same. Same circus different tent. But Mesa is on the bottom as far as pay and the way the company treats you. I did see a difference at PSA as far as the way management treats you. The training here is no joke though. They will fail you if you screw up which worries me. I studied my tail off. When I got to PSA and traveled for the first time as a D1 on AA I thought I was a King lol. If your in ORF itís a no brainer. ORF is our most junior base for FO and CA and we have a true flow to a major. Keep in mind I interviewed at Frontier, Atlas, Omni, Spirit 2 times. Did 2 job fairs and 2 interview preps and got turned down by all except Omni. I have never failed anything and got my 4 year 2 years ago. I could not do another interview and get a no. It was killing me. Omni offered me a class date when I was doing IOE at PSA and I turned it down. At the time I justified it because I did not want to pay the bonus back to PSA. I wander if it was the rite move... but if you want to be at home then do ORF with PSA

These failures turned out to be the best in the WORD? Now thats one hell of a training dept...

Champ1946
04-09-2019, 05:58 AM
These failures turned out to be the best in the WORD? Now thats one hell of a training dept...

I didnít mean those people specifically. But those pilots that failed werenít that bad. They been through CRJ training so much they were pretty descent. Just a lot of.. are we going to start down on the arrival? And they cleared us for the approach want to go green and hit approach mode?

No Land 3
04-09-2019, 08:18 AM
And despite ones best of plans, luck is the biggest factor. Maybe you interviewed and had a personality conflict with some one? Maybe the right person interviewed you, and you hit it off? Right place at the right time. But one thing is certain, if you don't put yourself out there, no one is going to grab you.
I dare say that Mesa's low pay when I was there, and the hassle of commuting on AA as a third party(compared to how we were treated by US Airways) did more to motivate me to move on than anything else. It helps keep you focused, not getting comfortable. The second you get comfortable, you become a lifer.

Varsity
04-09-2019, 05:45 PM
And despite ones best of plans, luck is the biggest factor. Maybe you interviewed and had a personality conflict with some one? Maybe the right person interviewed you, and you hit it off? Right place at the right time. But one thing is certain, if you don't put yourself out there, no one is going to grab you.
I dare say that Mesa's low pay when I was there, and the hassle of commuting on AA as a third party(compared to how we were treated by US Airways) did more to motivate me to move on than anything else. It helps keep you focused, not getting comfortable. The second you get comfortable, you become a lifer.

I'd rather be comfortable at my regional and apply to jobs I really want. If I were that desperate to get out, I'd probably jump to/find myself stuck in some weird acmi type job that would hire me quickly vs taking the time to get picked up by a real major.

pangolin
04-10-2019, 08:10 AM
I totally agree with this, but I've seen enough stuff on APC to wonder if I'd really have a harder time getting to a legacy or LCC if I'm at Mesa. It seems like Mesa would be at least near the top of the list for getting off of reserve as a SIC and moving to PIC time, which is obviously appealing, but if no one will hire me because of Mesa then I'm shooting myself in the foot. I honestly don't know what the answer is to that issue, but I'd love to go to Mesa just because of the West coast bases (I'm in Vegas).

Youíll be in IAD to start. However that may be changing soon. Mesa has zero negative impact on your chances at any airline that doesnít rely on flow. If you want to work at American go to a wholly owned. If you want to work at Delta go go to Endeavour. If you want United - Mesa on the ejet out of HOU or CRJ out of IAD is an option. For any other airline - Mesa people are hired without any negative stigmatism.

No Land 3
04-10-2019, 11:24 AM
I'd rather be comfortable at my regional and apply to jobs I really want. If I were that desperate to get out, I'd probably jump to/find myself stuck in some weird acmi type job that would hire me quickly vs taking the time to get picked up by a real major.
Some weird ACMI job...
I was on a cheap run down hotel van in DFW going to a cheap commuter hotel when I found out I was hired at K4. I was so excited I told an AA pilot I was just hired. His reaction was, "Oh yeh? Keep your apps out, we are still hiring."
Right then I knew I made a very wise choice, as this mainline pilot was still doing the same exact thing I was doing at Mesa. Commuting (non-rev) in a day early, staying at the Motel 6, the same exact bullcrap I despised doing.
It's been almost three years since I left for a weird ACMI, and I haven't spent a single penny on a hotel room, haven't non-reved, haven't stressed about a commute, and haven't had to go to the airport early to give myself any extra chances. I also get a two week vacation every month.
Man, you are right, what a weird pilot job...

Varsity
04-10-2019, 11:29 AM
Some weird ACMI job...
I was on a cheap run down hotel van in DFW going to a cheap commuter hotel when I found out I was hired at K4. I was so excited I told an AA pilot I was just hired. His reaction was, "Oh yeh? Keep your apps out, we are still hiring."
Right then I knew I made a very wise choice, as this mainline pilot was still doing the same exact thing I was doing at Mesa. Commuting (non-rev) in a day early, staying at the Motel 6, the same exact bullcrap I despised doing.
It's been almost three years since I left for a weird ACMI, and I haven't spent a single penny on a hotel room, haven't non-reved, haven't stressed about a commute, and haven't had to go to the airport early to give myself any extra chances. I also get a two week vacation every month.
Man, you are right, what a weird pilot job...

Gone half the month straight, no 117, flying as a contractor like a regional. Glad you like it, but no thanks.

No Land 3
04-10-2019, 11:54 AM
Gone half the month straight, no 117, flying as a contractor like a regional. Glad you like it, but no thanks.

I wouldn't want 117, doesn't work for international, on demand cargo. I would be spending a lot of time in hotels, instead of making real money.
As a contractor? Well it isn't the same as what your doing. We have many customers, and more business than we can fly. Our customers don't make the rules, but they do have requirements that we either accept or pass on, and some of our customers have us doing incredibly interesting stuff. It is a different world, but unfortunately, one you need to experience to know if you'd like it or not. Nearly all of the ASA guys we hired, that I've talked with, love it.
Yes, the 16 days is a hard pill to swallow for most, until they try it, and realize that they actually have more time at home because they only commute in/out once a month. Also having all of your days off in a row free's you up to do real things like road trips with the family, etc.
It really is completely different from what your accostomed to doing.(747 side)

Varsity
04-10-2019, 12:31 PM
I wouldn't want 117, doesn't work for international, on demand cargo. I would be spending a lot of time in hotels, instead of making real money.
As a contractor? Well it isn't the same as what your doing. We have many customers, and more business than we can fly. Our customers don't make the rules, but they do have requirements that we either accept or pass on, and some of our customers have us doing incredibly interesting stuff. It is a different world, but unfortunately, one you need to experience to know if you'd like it or not. Nearly all of the ASA guys we hired, that I've talked with, love it.
Yes, the 16 days is a hard pill to swallow for most, until they try it, and realize that they actually have more time at home because they only commute in/out once a month. Also having all of your days off in a row free's you up to do real things like road trips with the family, etc.
It really is completely different from what your accostomed to doing.(747 side)


Going is great in ACMI when the economy is good. When it's bad it gets smoked harder than any other corner except maybe biz charter. Like I said, glad you like it. It's not for me.

No Land 3
04-10-2019, 05:36 PM
Going is great in ACMI when the economy is good. When it's bad it gets smoked harder than any other corner except maybe biz charter. Like I said, glad you like it. It's not for me.

I wish you luck in getting to where you want to go. That is an interesting thought about the economy.

jrwit
04-10-2019, 08:24 PM
Some weird ACMI job...
I was on a cheap run down hotel van in DFW going to a cheap commuter hotel when I found out I was hired at K4. I was so excited I told an AA pilot I was just hired. His reaction was, "Oh yeh? Keep your apps out, we are still hiring."
Right then I knew I made a very wise choice, as this mainline pilot was still doing the same exact thing I was doing at Mesa. Commuting (non-rev) in a day early, staying at the Motel 6, the same exact bullcrap I despised doing.
It's been almost three years since I left for a weird ACMI, and I haven't spent a single penny on a hotel room, haven't non-reved, haven't stressed about a commute, and haven't had to go to the airport early to give myself any extra chances. I also get a two week vacation every month.
Man, you are right, what a weird pilot job...

I get that you're super stoked you're at K4. Genuinely I'm happy for you. It is so hard to find guys who are just happy to be doing this job.

However: to say that life at a legacy is not better than K4 is disingenuous, and it could give people the wrong idea. All of this is doubly true if you live in base (or decide to move in base) for a legacy, especially since the commuting aspect seems so important as a benefit of ACMI to you.

Sniper66
04-11-2019, 01:55 AM
I get that you're super stoked you're at K4. Genuinely I'm happy for you. It is so hard to find guys who are just happy to be doing this job.

However: to say that life at a legacy is not better than K4 is disingenuous, and it could give people the wrong idea. All of this is doubly true if you live in base (or decide to move in base) for a legacy, especially since the commuting aspect seems so important as a benefit of ACMI to you.





I am sure he will say no to delta or American or United
K4 is great thatís why they upgrade so fast.
So Much growth I guess and no turnover there
Last I check they have 30 planes or so

flyguy727
04-11-2019, 03:56 AM
Our MEC recommended that we vote 'yes.'

For a descending starting pay scale.

I never thought I'd see the day where pilots and their pathetic excuse for a union would stoop that low. This is nothing more than a race to the bottom.

Hope y'all enjoyed that free cheeseburger

For years, the airlines took advantage of pilots, paying miserable salaries, $18,000 a year or pay to play type deals, and the reason that went on was because pilots were willing to screw each other over. Many got out, went on to do other jobs or careers.
Fast forward to today, few people are interested in being pilots, why pay for such a high cost education, when you can go into technology and make $75,000 right out of college. So now the airlines they have to pay, $36 an hour is not enough, they should be paying $75 an hour. But once again, pilots we have pilots screwing pilots.

Vote No! What you do at Mesa, will spread across the industry. Don't screw yourself, don't do the airlines any favors, they profited plenty from pilots before you.

flyguy727
04-11-2019, 04:02 AM
I am sure he will say no to delta or American or United
K4 is great thatís why they upgrade so fast.
So Much growth I guess and no turnover there
Last I check they have 30 planes or so

There are many options in thus industry, it's hard to say which is better than the other one. I personally, had I been a few years younger, I would of gone overseas for a few years, and that's what I would recommend to any young pilot.
in picking a company, you would need to look at what you want and make sure that the company you pick, fits your lifestyle.

God Speed!

JohnnyDingus
04-11-2019, 04:13 AM
Ok, so here's the rub. I've got a start date with PSA in april. I'm living in Norfolk, and looking at the reserve times for FO and CA and debating jumping ship for Mesa. I'm wondering how much reserve time there is for Mesa, and if DC is a junior base that I could hold for my whole time of employment. Also, how's the company? I'm still reading through the forums to get my own read on what's going on. Just looking for anything direct from you guys.

Thanks

So did the OP go to Mesa? I sure hope so

No Land 3
04-11-2019, 05:26 AM
I get that you're super stoked you're at K4. Genuinely I'm happy for you. It is so hard to find guys who are just happy to be doing this job.

However: to say that life at a legacy is not better than K4 is disingenuous, and it could give people the wrong idea. All of this is doubly true if you live in base (or decide to move in base) for a legacy, especially since the commuting aspect seems so important as a benefit of ACMI to you.

It's really apples and oranges, two vastly different styles of doing the same thing.
I agree, living on base is the best QOL of all, "if" that is in your cards. If it's not, true home basing is hard to beat.

No Land 3
04-11-2019, 05:34 AM
I am sure he will say no to delta or American or United
K4 is great thatís why they upgrade so fast.
So Much growth I guess and no turnover there
Last I check they have 30 planes or so
I don't view myself fitting the Delta cookie cutter, but I would be stupid to say no to them based on long term pay, retirement, and likelyhood that they will be around for another 30 years. I don't believe I would have more fun at Delta or even like the job. I will say no to AA out of principle, UA, I never gave any thought to.

flydrive
04-11-2019, 07:48 AM
For years, the airlines took advantage of pilots, paying miserable salaries, $18,000 a year or pay to play type deals, and the reason that went on was because pilots were willing to screw each other over.


Face facts: to low time pilots, time is more valuable than money. TT, Turbine, TPIC, etc. We can debate all day as to why that is, but as long as it's true, pilots can and will take every opportunity to build time, even for substandard monetary compensation.

maxjet
04-11-2019, 08:29 AM
I am sure he will say no to delta or American or United
K4 is great thatís why they upgrade so fast.
So Much growth I guess and no turnover there
Last I check they have 30 planes or so

Sniper, There is no turnover at K4. There is a lot of growth. Since you last checked things have changed and will continue. 747-400 will be the next aircraft to be phased out in 10 years or so and we are acquiring 767 and 777 aircraft. The company will continue to flourish long after Connie has retired. It has been set up that way to continue the legacy. Kalittaís business plan is set up to weather the down times with a good mix of owned, short term lease, and CMI aircraft. All in synergy with the other Connie owned Kalitta companies.

What else is there to like or not like? There is industry leading starting pay. There is industry leading medical. There is crappy retirement. There is 16 days out with 14-16 days off. There are the best maintained aircraft in the industry. Outside the US there are great hotels, sometimes better than the legacies but at least as good.

This month, which is typical for this time of the year, (slow)I have had 4 days off in Nanjing, China to explore. 3 days off in Anchorage, followed by another 2 days off in Nanjing. I will go home with between 76-80 hours depending how my commute home (yes, they pay us to commute) goes. At 270.00 an hour plus perdiem, that is not a bad month.

All of that becomes a burden if you cannot be away from home that long, cannot adjust to time zones a day or so after being in one, cannot sleep in a bunk room on a plane, (our standard crew is 3 pilots, so on an 8 hour flight I take a nap or watch a movie or overeat😩 for 2:20), or one does not possess the foundation of experience to maintain proficiency with only one or two landings a month.

In other words, I couldnít be any happier. I made 419,000 last year, (I was in the training department in addition to flying) which was an incredibly busy year for us. Others may absolutely hate this lifestyle.

I resisted coming to K4 for years because of what was on the internet. It was foolish and suggest others learn from my mistakes. Look at ACMI, FedEx, or UPS with an open mind and make the decision that is best for you. It will be a sad day on March 12th when I have to retire. I have an incredibly full life right now and will be very busy in retirement, thanks to the money I have made here at Kalitta. I will however, forever miss working at Kalittaair.

Flyboy68
04-14-2019, 09:14 PM
Sniper, There is no turnover at K4. There is a lot of growth. Since you last checked things have changed and will continue. 747-400 will be the next aircraft to be phased out in 10 years or so and we are acquiring 767 and 777 aircraft. The company will continue to flourish long after Connie has retired. It has been set up that way to continue the legacy. Kalittaís business plan is set up to weather the down times with a good mix of owned, short term lease, and CMI aircraft. All in synergy with the other Connie owned Kalitta companies.

What else is there to like or not like? There is industry leading starting pay. There is industry leading medical. There is crappy retirement. There is 16 days out with 14-16 days off. There are the best maintained aircraft in the industry. Outside the US there are great hotels, sometimes better than the legacies but at least as good.

This month, which is typical for this time of the year, (slow)I have had 4 days off in Nanjing, China to explore. 3 days off in Anchorage, followed by another 2 days off in Nanjing. I will go home with between 76-80 hours depending how my commute home (yes, they pay us to commute) goes. At 270.00 an hour plus perdiem, that is not a bad month.

All of that becomes a burden if you cannot be away from home that long, cannot adjust to time zones a day or so after being in one, cannot sleep in a bunk room on a plane, (our standard crew is 3 pilots, so on an 8 hour flight I take a nap or watch a movie or overeat😩 for 2:20), or one does not possess the foundation of experience to maintain proficiency with only one or two landings a month.

In other words, I couldnít be any happier. I made 419,000 last year, (I was in the training department in addition to flying) which was an incredibly busy year for us. Others may absolutely hate this lifestyle.

I resisted coming to K4 for years because of what was on the internet. It was foolish and suggest others learn from my mistakes. Look at ACMI, FedEx, or UPS with an open mind and make the decision that is best for you. It will be a sad day on March 12th when I have to retire. I have an incredibly full life right now and will be very busy in retirement, thanks to the money I have made here at Kalitta. I will however, forever miss working at Kalittaair.Nice post.

Good luck to you in retirement. Take care.

kevin18
04-15-2019, 09:00 AM
So did the OP go to Mesa? I sure hope so

Decided to stick with PSA.

flyguy727
04-16-2019, 07:25 PM
[QUOTE=maxjet;2801029]Sniper, There is no turnover at K4. There is a lot of growth. Since you last checked things have changed and will continue. 747-400 will be the next aircraft to be phased out in 10 years or so and we are acquiring 767 and 777 aircraft. The company will continue to flourish long after Connie has retired. It has been set up that way to continue the legacy. Kalittaís business plan is set up to weather the down times with a good mix of owned, short term lease, and CMI aircraft. All in synergy with the other Connie owned Kalitta companies.

What else is there to like or not like? There is industry leading starting pay. There is industry leading medical. There is crappy retirement. There is 16 days out with 14-16 days off. There are the best maintained aircraft in the industry. Outside the US there are great hotels, sometimes better than the legacies but at least as good.

This month, which is typical for this time of the year, (slow)I have had 4 days off in Nanjing, China to explore. 3 days off in Anchorage, followed by another 2 days off in Nanjing. I will go home with between 76-80 hours depending how my commute home (yes, they pay us to commute) goes. At 270.00 an hour plus perdiem, that is not a bad month.

All of that becomes a burden if you cannot be away from home that long, cannot adjust to time zones a day or so after being in one, cannot sleep in a bunk room on a plane, (our standard crew is 3 pilots, so on an 8 hour flight I take a nap or watch a movie or overeat😩 for 2:20), or one does not possess the foundation of experience to maintain proficiency with only one or two landings a month.

In other words, I couldnít be any happier. I made 419,000 last year, (I was in the training department in addition to flying) which was an incredibly busy year for us. Others may absolutely hate this lifestyle.

I resisted coming to K4 for years because of what was on the internet. It was foolish and suggest others learn from my mistakes. Look at ACMI, FedEx, or UPS with an open mind and make the decision that is best for you. It will be a sad day on March 12th when I have to retire. I have an incredibly full life right now and will be very busy in retirement, thanks to the money I have made here at Kalitta. I will however, forever miss working at

Came across a Kalitta Charters II guy on the 727, he seems to like it. pay just went up, and they working on a contract so that should go up again. they get lots of time off 16 on 12 off, and they are building the 737 fleet up.

Look like those guys at kalitta really know what they are doing, all their devisions are in full growth mode. something to think about.

av02
04-25-2019, 11:13 AM
PSA 50.22 hr FO first year!

NovemberBravo
04-25-2019, 12:36 PM
PSA 50.22 hr FO first year!

A lot more than Mesa, thatís year 13 FO pay at Mesa and you never get the last $20k of the bonus because youíll be eligible for upgrade after about a year and a half here. Once you upgrade youíll be making $67-70ish at Mesa vs $84+ at PSA.

flyguy727
05-12-2019, 02:54 AM
Sniper, There is no turnover at K4. There is a lot of growth. Since you last checked things have changed and will continue. 747-400 will be the next aircraft to be phased out in 10 years or so and we are acquiring 767 and 777 aircraft. The company will continue to flourish long after Connie has retired. It has been set up that way to continue the legacy. Kalittaís business plan is set up to weather the down times with a good mix of owned, short term lease, and CMI aircraft. All in synergy with the other Connie owned Kalitta companies.

What else is there to like or not like? There is industry leading starting pay. There is industry leading medical. There is crappy retirement. There is 16 days out with 14-16 days off. There are the best maintained aircraft in the industry. Outside the US there are great hotels, sometimes better than the legacies but at least as good.

This month, which is typical for this time of the year, (slow)I have had 4 days off in Nanjing, China to explore. 3 days off in Anchorage, followed by another 2 days off in Nanjing. I will go home with between 76-80 hours depending how my commute home (yes, they pay us to commute) goes. At 270.00 an hour plus perdiem, that is not a bad month.

All of that becomes a burden if you cannot be away from home that long, cannot adjust to time zones a day or so after being in one, cannot sleep in a bunk room on a plane, (our standard crew is 3 pilots, so on an 8 hour flight I take a nap or watch a movie or overeat😩 for 2:20), or one does not possess the foundation of experience to maintain proficiency with only one or two landings a month.

In other words, I couldnít be any happier. I made 419,000 last year, (I was in the training department in addition to flying) which was an incredibly busy year for us. Others may absolutely hate this lifestyle.

I resisted coming to K4 for years because of what was on the internet. It was foolish and suggest others learn from my mistakes. Look at ACMI, FedEx, or UPS with an open mind and make the decision that is best for you. It will be a sad day on March 12th when I have to retire. I have an incredibly full life right now and will be very busy in retirement, thanks to the money I have made here at Kalitta. I will however, forever miss working at Kalittaair.

Many don't know the history of Kalitta, and how important they have been in the cargo world. Kalitta goes back to the 70s, they have never laid anyone off, the reason why today there is a UPS and Fedex, is because of Kalitta, and during 9/11 when everyone was grounded, Kalitta was the only none government aircraft flying. and I'm talking about all Kalitta business units, Charters, Charters II and k4.

Tailwinds77
06-05-2019, 06:36 AM
Ok, so here's the rub. I've got a start date with PSA in april. I'm living in Norfolk, and looking at the reserve times for FO and CA and debating jumping ship for Mesa. I'm wondering how much reserve time there is for Mesa, and if DC is a junior base that I could hold for my whole time of employment. Also, how's the company? I'm still reading through the forums to get my own read on what's going on. Just looking for anything direct from you guys.

Thanks

Let me share my personal Mesa, vs PSA experience. I interviewed at both in 2014, when I went to the PSA interview my buddy went with me and we were both offered the same new hire class. I ultimately chose Mesa, because low reserve time and they would guarantee me a base seemed attractive. At the time I thought I made the right decision. Last month, May 2019, my body just flowed from PSA into American. It was literally five years to the day that it took him to flow. I have still not received a response to any of my applications with a mainline carrier. So as you can imagine I'm kicking myself in the ass for not choosing PSA. Stay with PSA, ride it out.

itsmytime
06-05-2019, 12:40 PM
Let me share my personal Mesa, vs PSA experience. I interviewed at both in 2014, when I went to the PSA interview my buddy went with me and we were both offered the same new hire class. I ultimately chose Mesa, because low reserve time and they would guarantee me a base seemed attractive. At the time I thought I made the right decision. Last month, May 2019, my body just flowed from PSA into American. It was literally five years to the day that it took him to flow. I have still not received a response to any of my applications with a mainline carrier. So as you can imagine I'm kicking myself in the ass for not choosing PSA. Stay with PSA, ride it out.

Not laughing at you personally, but your story is the reason I always get so tickled when a newbie says, ďI donít need the flow, Iíll be picked up long before my flow date.Ē

chrisreedrules
06-06-2019, 06:19 AM
Not laughing at you personally, but your story is the reason I always get so tickled when a newbie says, ďI donít need the flow, Iíll be picked up long before my flow date.Ē

The reality is that it takes the average pilot who will spend a couple years on reserve at their regional at least 4-6 years to become even somewhat competitive for a mainline job. Many of these flow programs at the WOs will end up being about 7-8 years for most new hires. Maybe a little less. There are certainly other factors to consider, but flow does have value.

wnjetpilot
09-10-2019, 06:56 PM
Currently at Mesa, great place to get your hours and get out. Other than that itís a waist of time.

SpeedyT
09-10-2019, 07:22 PM
Yup. Was on reserve for about 2.5 months and currently averaging 85-88 hours a month for the past few months. Could pickup lots of open time more but I still need a life at home ;). Getting time here is quick.

No Land 3
09-11-2019, 01:32 AM
Currently at Mesa, great place to get your hours and get out. Other than that itís a waist of time.

How do you wear time around your waist? Special kind of belt with an antimatter reactor? Does it use a stable isotope of element 115? I need to go ask Bob Lazar...

No Land 3
09-11-2019, 01:34 AM
The reality is that it takes the average pilot who will spend a couple years on reserve at their regional at least 4-6 years to become even somewhat competitive for a mainline job. Many of these flow programs at the WOs will end up being about 7-8 years for most new hires. Maybe a little less. There are certainly other factors to consider, but flow does have value.
You've been at PSA for six years now? You hired on there at the same time I hired on at Mesa. So you should be flowing very soon, no?

AboveAndBeyond
09-11-2019, 09:50 AM
You've been at PSA for six years now? You hired on there at the same time I hired on at Mesa. So you should be flowing very soon, no?

April 2014 hires are flowing now at PSA. It is a little under 6 years right now.

Varsity
09-11-2019, 10:14 AM
April 2014 hires are flowing now at PSA. It is a little under 6 years right now.

This is ridiculous.

Envoy is flowing early 2011 hires.

kevin18
09-11-2019, 10:37 AM
April 2014 hires are flowing now at PSA. It is a little under 6 years right now.

Sounds like propaganda to me. With the hiring wave between there and the current now how long would it take assuming no increase? How many flow per year? There are 1900+ there, assume 10% will never leave. You need to flow or attrite 283 per year for someone getting hired today.

AboveAndBeyond
09-11-2019, 10:46 AM
The funny thing is that this sounds exactly like something that I said 3 years ago. I was ready to leave here, and would have bet any amount of money that I wouldn't flow in 6 years or less. Remember...when hired in 2014, we didn't even have a true flow, just a guaranteed interview.

Now, a few years later, I am going to be flowing in a short amount of time. Flow will be increasing (like pay just did).

Attrition is very high, especially in those that are here for 1-2 years, but we still have people leaving in as little as a few weeks before flow. Many pilots want to go to FedEx or Delta, and they are getting hired and leaving right up to a few months before flow.

We lost over 80 pilots in the last 2 months, many in the top 1/2 of the seniority list. We are hiring far more than that, but movement is very good.

Someone hired in January of this year has moved up over 200 spots so far this year and now has 320 pilots junior to him already.

dera
09-11-2019, 10:53 AM
This is ridiculous.

Envoy is flowing early 2011 hires.

You know perfectly well Envoy will drop to 5 year flows in about a year.
So why is this "ridiculous"?

chrisreedrules
09-11-2019, 03:12 PM
You've been at PSA for six years now? You hired on there at the same time I hired on at Mesa. So you should be flowing very soon, no?

About 5...