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View Full Version : August vacancy


riel39
03-08-2019, 04:32 PM
48ish CA vacancies: discuss amongst yourselves.


viper548
03-08-2019, 05:05 PM
Small compared to the June bid. My prediction- Junior captain on this bid will be senior to the junior guy on the June bid. I'll go with 11,9xx.

Name User
03-08-2019, 05:35 PM
Total pilots scheduled

08/2019 - 13420
10/2019 - 13493
01/2020 - 13564

Or roughly 1% growth in pilot ranks. At least it's moving the right direction!


Dobbs18
03-08-2019, 06:40 PM
The CLT numbers are discouraging to say the least...544 FOs on June vacancy for Aug, down to 519 on the August vancancy for August. Similar reductions on the CA side too. :eek:

AAL24
03-08-2019, 09:04 PM
The CLT numbers are discouraging to say the least...544 FOs on June vacancy for Aug, down to 519 on the August vancancy for August. Similar reductions on the CA side too. :eek:

Rudderless ship at this point... We seem to be operating on inertia alone. Delta is growing, United growing, all the LCC's growing. Eagle growing. AAL not so much. They just keep re-arranging the furniture.

OVBIII
03-09-2019, 05:57 AM
Rudderless ship at this point... We seem to be operating on inertia alone. Delta is growing, United growing, all the LCC's growing. Eagle growing. AAL not so much. They just keep re-arranging the furniture.

That rug really tied the room together, dude.

nAAtive
03-09-2019, 07:11 AM
Small compared to the June bid. My prediction- Junior captain on this bid will be senior to the junior guy on the June bid. I'll go with 11,9xx.

Itís only a one month bid.

B757200ER
03-09-2019, 08:16 AM
:cool:Itís only a one month bid.

True; and don't forget almost all remaining DFW/S-80 pilots are getting displaced.

nAAtive
03-09-2019, 09:01 AM
:cool:

True; and don't forget almost all remaining DFW/S-80 pilots are getting displaced.

On the next bid most likely not this one.

viper548
03-09-2019, 09:18 AM
It’s only a one month bid.
Last one was june, this one is aug. Training to begin in June or July. That sounds like a 2 month bid.

riel39
03-09-2019, 09:22 AM
That rug really tied the room together, dude.

Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man...

OVBIII
03-09-2019, 11:01 AM
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man...

I still watch that movie and laugh!

riel39
03-09-2019, 11:17 AM
I still watch that movie and laugh!

I know, it gets better every time.




Quintana... that creep can roll, man.

Yeah, but he's a pervert, Dude.

8 year olds...

Thedude
03-09-2019, 01:00 PM
The CLT numbers are discouraging to say the least...544 FOs on June vacancy for Aug, down to 519 on the August vancancy for August. Similar reductions on the CA side too. :eek:

But...but...but... increased block hrs in CLT.

havick206
03-09-2019, 02:32 PM
Rudderless ship at this point... We seem to be operating on inertia alone. Delta is growing, United growing, all the LCC's growing. Eagle growing. AAL not so much. They just keep re-arranging the furniture.

Honest question here. Other than shuffling the deck chairs, can Eagle really get any bigger than consolidating the flying from other contract regional carriers due to scope?

Apart from maybe some of the starry eyed young guys joining Eagle, the rest of us here at Eagle would like to see flying return to mainline for obvious reasons.

seafeye
03-09-2019, 02:48 PM
Lol. Thatís right. Blame the eagle pilots. Because they are the ones that made the decision to take over jetways in Dallas.

(Sarcasm for those that didnít see it)

izzy
03-09-2019, 02:50 PM
But...but...but... increased block hrs in CLT.

Average Calendar Day.

B757200ER
03-09-2019, 04:50 PM
On the next bid most likely not this one.

Only a handful of Super-80s will be flying in September, and the retirement flight is scheduled for Sept.4th.

jacjetlag
03-09-2019, 05:17 PM
.
Step into the W/B world as soon as you can.
It's a different airline.

Name User
03-09-2019, 06:46 PM
Honest question here. Other than shuffling the deck chairs, can Eagle really get any bigger than consolidating the flying from other contract regional carriers due to scope?

Apart from maybe some of the starry eyed young guys joining Eagle, the rest of us here at Eagle would like to see flying return to mainline for obvious reasons.
Interesting slide

AAL24
03-09-2019, 08:10 PM
Lol. Thatís right. Blame the eagle pilots. Because they are the ones that made the decision to take over jetways in Dallas.

(Sarcasm for those that didnít see it)

Nobody blames the eagle pilots!

mainlineAF
03-10-2019, 01:47 AM
Interesting slide



Iím guessing that means insourcing from non-wholly owned regionals to mostly wholly-owned regionals unfortunately.

Aviatrx
03-10-2019, 04:39 AM
Iím guessing that means insourcing from non-wholly owned regionals to mostly wholly-owned regionals unfortunately.

This is right. This will not be a sustainable plan though, due to flow through and the hefty retirements at AAL

Andrew_VT
03-10-2019, 05:22 AM
This is right. This will not be a sustainable plan though, due to flow through and the hefty retirements at AAL

It would if they made the only path to mainline going to a wholly owned regional first.

It would suck for the 'Squadron Buddies' but could boost Eagle hiring. Essentially getting a mainline seniority number at the regional level (though not officially) would have huge appeal.

I see this as a sort of nuclear option they could use if regional hiring gets really bad.

Vma214
03-10-2019, 06:30 AM
.
Step into the W/B world as soon as you can.
It's a different airline.

Somebody finally cracked the code.

Cheddar
03-10-2019, 08:47 AM
Why is there growth in the DFW/767? We have been above 50% reserves (not that Iím complaining) since last fall.


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flydc
03-10-2019, 01:22 PM
Why is there growth in the DFW/767? We have been above 50% reserves (not that Iím complaining) since last fall.


Maybe theyíre anticipating some of the S80 displacements will want 767.

Name User
03-10-2019, 05:48 PM
Iím guessing that means insourcing from non-wholly owned regionals to mostly wholly-owned regionals unfortunately.

That's the way I read it as well.

RhinoBallAuto
03-10-2019, 06:03 PM
Maybe theyíre anticipating some of the S80 displacements will want 767.

...wouldn't they wait for a displacement bid for that then?

And it doesn't account for growth. Just because 80s are going away doesn't mean 76 will grow in DFW

Name User
03-10-2019, 06:12 PM
...wouldn't they wait for a displacement bid for that then?

And it doesn't account for growth. Just because 80s are going away doesn't mean 76 will grow in DFW

Look at the staffing levels for it. It looks like they are starting to consolidate down to DFW, PHL, and MIA for now. LGA and PHX are shrinking.

redbaronahp
03-10-2019, 06:35 PM
Look at the staffing levels for it. It looks like they are starting to consolidate down to DFW, PHL, and MIA for now. LGA and PHX are shrinking.

Management seems content giving away NYC flying which just baffles my mind. I get itís expensive but itís the largest market in the country and they are just giving it to Delta and JetBlue.

Name User
03-10-2019, 06:59 PM
Management seems content giving away NYC flying which just baffles my mind. I get it’s expensive but it’s the largest market in the country and they are just giving it to Delta and JetBlue.

+15 in staffing in LGA between August and October.

I think their hands are mostly tired. In reality JetBlue is a cheaper operator and will beat on price. Delta is, and will always be, the better business carrier.

If you're a leisure traveler, you're taking the cheaper operator with 32" of legroom and free WiFi and TV.

If you're a business traveler, you're taking Delta because of their network and reliability.

We do well in LHR but my big concern is Brexit. Most of the big banks have already started to move to Paris (Delta Skyteam hub). If/when the LHR business market collapses we will probably end up running a small NB fleet there just to say we do. Sad, I know. Unless they can buy up JetBlue slots on the cheap.

I saw this coming when Delta swapped US DCA slots for a ton of LGA stuff. They are five years ahead of every decision we make.

Also long term Delta moves in BOS and JFK are interesting. They are gunning for jetBlue, and attempting to do the same thing in those hubs as they are in SEA. I like jetBlue personally so I hope they can keep them at bay.

redbaronahp
03-10-2019, 07:35 PM
+15 in staffing in LGA between August and October.

I think their hands are mostly tired. In reality JetBlue is a cheaper operator and will beat on price. Delta is, and will always be, the better business carrier.

If you're a leisure traveler, you're taking the cheaper operator with 32" of legroom and free WiFi and TV.

If you're a business traveler, you're taking Delta because of their network and reliability.

We do well in LHR but my big concern is Brexit. Most of the big banks have already started to move to Paris (Delta Skyteam hub). If/when the LHR business market collapses we will probably end up running a small NB fleet there just to say we do. Sad, I know. Unless they can buy up JetBlue slots on the cheap.

I saw this coming when Delta swapped US DCA slots for a ton of LGA stuff. They are five years ahead of every decision we make.

Also long term Delta moves in BOS and JFK are interesting. They are gunning for jetBlue, and attempting to do the same thing in those hubs as they are in SEA. I like jetBlue personally so I hope they can keep them at bay.

Delta management is way ahead of DPís team when it comes to business decisions. The AA product is far inferior to DL and B6. Our management is failing at providing LCC prices and a quality product. Itís a bad mix of crappy service and not cheap fares. Oasis interiors are the worst.

Sandwich Artist
03-10-2019, 08:43 PM
Delta management is way ahead of DPís team when it comes to business decisions. The AA product is far inferior to DL and B6. Our management is failing at providing LCC prices and a quality product. Itís a bad mix of crappy service and not cheap fares. Oasis interiors are the worst.

I thought you quit AA for FedEx?

B757200ER
03-11-2019, 07:39 AM
Management seems content giving away NYC flying which just baffles my mind. I get itís expensive but itís the largest market in the country and they are just giving it to Delta and JetBlue.

It's because they've chosen PHL in the northeast, and JFK has become redundant. I'm not saying I agree, but they're obviously going to grow PHL and shrink NYC flying.

AA has gone thru similar downsizing, such as giving away SJC hub-and-spoke to Reno, then buying Reno, then dismantling the hub in SJC. Other airlines, like SWA, moved in.

mainlineAF
03-11-2019, 08:29 AM
Management seems content giving away NYC flying which just baffles my mind. I get itís expensive but itís the largest market in the country and they are just giving it to Delta and JetBlue.



It wasnít just decided to ďgive upĒ NYC. Management has said this multiple times. Thereís 3 main reasons why

-us/dl slot swap in 2011/12 timeframe left the combined AA at a large disadvantage
-NYC is hyper competitive and slot controlled. DL and JB have a much bigger presence and thereís no way to increase connecting traffic
-PHL being an hour away and already a bigger European gateway is the final straw as to why NYC is now strictly an O and D/ business market

Cheddar
03-11-2019, 09:11 AM
Maybe theyíre anticipating some of the S80 displacements will want 767.



That doesnít account for the growth... I understand the consolidation aspect, but the PHX jets are going away as soon as the Neoís arrive there. As far as the JFK iron, I thought PHL would absorb that flying and test out other soft European markets.

We are just doing LIM and hub turns DFW. The hub turns can easily be done with the 321 as the 757 is doing most of those.

Maybe we donít have enough 321ís?



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AAfng
03-11-2019, 11:23 AM
I thought you quit AA for FedEx?

He probably hates it at Fedex and is questioning his decision (but is stuck now at FedEx) so he comes on here to make himself feel better by digging on American.

jcountry
03-11-2019, 06:18 PM
I donít understand why we have so little movement.

Other airlines have far fewer retirements and 10x the upgrades.

Itís a real headscratcher.....

PRS Guitars
03-11-2019, 06:42 PM
Nothing to see here, they just want to reduce training in the summer. Pretty sure other airlines do this too. Expect large fall through spring bids.

nAAtive
03-11-2019, 08:32 PM
I donít understand why we have so little movement.

Other airlines have far fewer retirements and 10x the upgrades.

Itís a real headscratcher.....
Itís a one month bid

mainlineAF
03-12-2019, 06:00 AM
I donít understand why we have so little movement.



Other airlines have far fewer retirements and 10x the upgrades.



Itís a real headscratcher.....



There was a lot of movement on the last bid.

BOGSAT
03-12-2019, 07:25 PM
Where will the jr Gp 2 Capt numbers fall? Gp 4 FO?

bigscrillywilli
03-13-2019, 05:39 AM
What are the winning powerball numbers for next week?? Letís go Back to the Future! 😂

OVBIII
03-13-2019, 07:05 AM
What are the winning powerball numbers for next week?? Letís go Back to the Future! 😂

Have you seen BTTF2 the last few years? Itís fairly hysterical what we all thought the 2Ks would look like back then......still waiting on my hover board.

Bob Loblaw
03-13-2019, 12:33 PM
Have you seen BTTF2 the last few years? Itís fairly hysterical what we all thought the 2Ks would look like back then......still waiting on my hover board.

To be fair, they did get quite a lot right.

Name User
03-13-2019, 12:34 PM
To be fair, they did get quite a lot right.

Yeah the flying cars are everywhere

bigscrillywilli
03-13-2019, 02:47 PM
Bifffffffff

bigscrillywilli
03-26-2019, 10:45 AM
How many months until the award comes out?

PRS Guitars
03-26-2019, 06:31 PM
How many months until the award comes out?

It just closed the other day...Iím going with 19 April.

450knotOffice
03-27-2019, 09:51 AM
It usually seems to be a couple of weeks, so that puts it in the April 5th to April 8th time frame.

Kibeegee
03-28-2019, 11:45 AM
What is the latest estimated duration for a new hire to be Charlotte based? -And how long is your seat lock after training? Thanks in advance and please point me towards the right post area if that info exists already (I canít find it.)

seafeye
03-28-2019, 12:06 PM
1 year initial seat lock. 2-3years to get CLT.

Kibeegee
03-28-2019, 12:12 PM
Thanks!!!!

flydc
03-28-2019, 12:20 PM
Initial seat lock is 6 months from your scheduled training completion date. If youíre hired in Jan but not scheduled to finish training until March, youíre eligible to bid on new equipment in September (likely for a Dec or Jan effective date)... and then you can be withheld for up to a year from the effective date of that bid.

Clear as mud?

Kibeegee
03-30-2019, 05:19 PM
Crystalish, thanks. Any limits to moving domiciles in the same airframe?

Arado 234
03-30-2019, 06:27 PM
Where will the jr Gp 2 Capt numbers fall? Gp 4 FO?


Any bets?


G2 Capt ....?
G4 F/O ....?
(and the unthinkable)
G4 Capt ....?

BOGSAT
03-30-2019, 06:28 PM
After August, when will the next bid drop? One or two more in 2019?

Place your bets.

I would think all this movement combined with some unplanned early retirements would almost force more perm bids?

viper548
03-30-2019, 06:40 PM
After August, when will the next bid drop? One or two more in 2019?

Place your bets.

I would think all this movement combined with some unplanned early retirements would almost force more perm bids?

I'll go with 2 more. Oct and Dec. Oct will have the MD-80 displacements and maybe some 767. Isn't a 767 base closing this year too?

Cheddar
03-31-2019, 12:47 AM
Iíd bet two more as well. S80 displacements on the next two and maybe the LGA/767 finally goes away. I donít think PHX/767 is going anywhere until 3-4Q 2020.

It will be interesting to see how they handle the S80, Iím betting some guys have a loooong vacation!

Hereís another WAG:
GP2/CA - 12400
GP4/FO - 12200
GP4/CA - gains 2-300 numbers


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Cheddar
03-31-2019, 12:52 AM
Initial seat lock is 6 months from your scheduled training completion date. If youíre hired in Jan but not scheduled to finish training until March, youíre eligible to bid on new equipment in September (likely for a Dec or Jan effective date)... and then you can be withheld for up to a year from the effective date of that bid.



Clear as mud?



Sort of - but you can bid whenever you want - thereís no Ďeligibility.í

I was withheld off my initial S80 bid for 6 months to 320/FO. I was released from 320/FO to 767/FO after 15 months and started training on month 18. I was a bit surprised, but itís worked out well. Bid what you want!


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ShyGuy
03-31-2019, 12:31 PM
:cool:

True; and don't forget almost all remaining DFW/S-80 pilots are getting displaced.

Wow, yikes. As in end of the DFW S80 base? Is there any other M80 base?

viper548
03-31-2019, 03:38 PM
Wow, yikes. As in end of the DFW S80 base? Is there any other M80 base?

Sept is the end of the line for the S80. DFW is the only remaining base, we only have about 30 S80's on property.

bigscrillywilli
03-31-2019, 06:37 PM
Been curious for so long, what makes a S80 so super?

Al Czervik
03-31-2019, 08:05 PM
Been curious for so long, what makes a S80 so super?

Itís not a 737.

flyinawa
03-31-2019, 08:34 PM
Itís not a 737.

Best laugh Iíve gotten all day.

UPTme
03-31-2019, 09:48 PM
Itís not a 737.

Best post of his career. Time to hang up the keyboard

Cheddar
03-31-2019, 10:05 PM
Itís not a 737.



Al, you won the interwebs. Still laughing!


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TransWorld
04-01-2019, 07:09 AM
Been curious for so long, what makes a S80 so super?

Steam gauges, too.

Name User
04-01-2019, 11:39 AM
Steam gauges, too.

It's sad when you look at a 737 and think "wow this is so modern!" haha

Cheddar
04-01-2019, 12:26 PM
It's sad when you look at a 737 and think "wow this is so modern!" haha



And then the 70ís happened.


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Name User
04-01-2019, 01:45 PM
And then the 70’s happened.


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Say what you want about the Boeings but after four years on the Airbus and switching, I find myself getting nauseous on an Airbus now. Doesn't matter where I sit - upfront in a 319 or in the last row in a 321 - I still get nauseous.

That yaw damper just doesn't work so good on those planes I guess. Who knows. Either that or it's the residual "fumes". The first company to figure out the best of both will make a killing.

Hopefully this 737MAX thing has kicked Boeing's butt into high gear. Airbus is killing them in the single aisle market.

NC43rd
04-04-2019, 04:05 PM
I think all these bid projections will be reworked as this MAx8 problem could throw some pretty serious wrinkles in our ďgrowthĒ (replacement) plan. Planes still going out with no replacements could get ugly.

Name User
04-04-2019, 04:07 PM
I think all these bid projections will be reworked as this MAx8 problem could throw some pretty serious wrinkles in our ďgrowthĒ (replacement) plan. Planes still going out with no replacements could get ugly.

Yeah the company thought they'd be back in service by mid April. It's looking like at least a few more months possibly now. It could get ugly. Not my job!!

Al Czervik
04-04-2019, 04:19 PM
yeah the company thought they'd be back in service by mid april. It's looking like at least a few more months possibly now. It could get ugly. Not my job!!

buy moar airbus!!!!!

Name User
04-04-2019, 04:43 PM
buy moar airbus!!!!!

Pretty long line...Boeing has 5000 undelivered MAXs...

BOGSAT
04-04-2019, 08:08 PM
Does the Aug bid publish today? April 5th.

Survey says:

Surprise
04-04-2019, 10:55 PM
They say youíll know at the end of your career if you made the right choice, but at 14% through Iím still feeling like Delta would have been a better move... 😒

nimslow
04-04-2019, 11:18 PM
I think all these bid projections will be reworked as this MAx8 problem could throw some pretty serious wrinkles in our ďgrowthĒ (replacement) plan. Planes still going out with no replacements could get ugly.

We were talking about that exact thing today.

The MAX's are still rolling off the production line at the normal rate, and two each month are in AA paint. When the grounding is lifted, they may have a bunch of airplanes to put in service all at once.

We still have 600+ retirements left for this year, so I'd bet they will keep the schoolhouse humming along full speed. At least for now.

OVBIII
04-05-2019, 03:25 AM
They say youíll know at the end of your career if you made the right choice, but at 14% through Iím still feeling like Delta would have been a better move... 😒

Thatís true you never know. Out of curiosity, what percentage would you be at DAL? What about 5 years from now? (Keep that in mind)

Al Czervik
04-05-2019, 04:03 AM
That’s true you never know. Out of curiosity, what percentage would you be at DAL? What about 5 years from now? (Keep that in mind)

I looked at that recently. Top 1/3 of the list here in 5 years with 20+ years left. Some serious retirements coming up.

OVBIII
04-05-2019, 04:57 AM
I looked at that recently. Top 1/3 of the list here in 5 years with 20+ years left. Some serious retirements coming up.

Exactly. That was my thought I was trying to get across. I think he/she wouldnít progress (seniority wise) as fast over there. Thoughts?

Name User
04-05-2019, 08:10 AM
I looked at that recently. Top 1/3 of the list here in 5 years with 20+ years left. Some serious retirements coming up.

Similar numbers but about a year after you.

Please please please don't screw this up Doug!!!

bigscrillywilli
04-05-2019, 10:14 AM
Is the super-computer still churning away?

OVBIII
04-05-2019, 10:27 AM
Is the super-computer still churning away?
That dang ole hamster is trying

RegionalFO
04-05-2019, 10:36 AM
I saw a message today that said vacancy comes out Mid April.


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ShyGuy
04-05-2019, 10:44 AM
I looked at that recently. Top 1/3 of the list here in 5 years with 20+ years left. Some serious retirements coming up.

Damn son you gonna make cheddar like Les Abend.


Only question is.............. do you have the mustache to go with it?

bigscrillywilli
04-05-2019, 10:45 AM
Wow closed on 23rd of March. Theyíre going to see how many extra sorties they need out of MD80 because of the Max 737? lol

nimslow
04-05-2019, 11:08 AM
I saw a message today that said vacancy comes out Mid April.


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The CCI about DCA/UDC said after the final vaccines are published in mid April. The preliminary vacancies are usually published about two weeks before the finals. My money is on next week for the prelims.

RegionalFO
04-05-2019, 11:16 AM
Well then it should be out this week then.


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sumwherelse
04-05-2019, 12:51 PM
Posted. Not a single airbus CA award?

Name User
04-05-2019, 12:53 PM
It's out.

Most junior CA is an 11.5 number. Nothing like the last one.

Kinda uneventful.

OVBIII
04-05-2019, 01:31 PM
It's out.

Most junior CA is an 11.5 number. Nothing like the last one.

Kinda uneventful.

One thing that surprised me, (itís a small thing overall) not much NB to WB FO awards. Or did I miss it?

Name User
04-05-2019, 01:43 PM
One thing that surprised me, (itís a small thing overall) not much NB to WB FO awards. Or did I miss it?

Nope don't think you missed anything

I'm sure the next one will be interesting.

flyinawa
04-05-2019, 03:29 PM
Color me disappointed. :(

DarinFred
04-06-2019, 05:35 AM
They are getting further and further behind the power curve. I wouldnít doubt if they came to us asking for 5 year seat locks to deal with their lack of foresight.

thrust
04-06-2019, 05:51 AM
They are getting further and further behind the power curve. I wouldnít doubt if they came to us asking for 5 year seat locks to deal with their lack of foresight.

AA has the best new hire seat locks (only 6 months) in the industry.

I imagine management has longer seat locks on their wish list. Thatís gonna be very, very expensive for them to achieve. Lots of leverage here.

Photon1
04-06-2019, 06:03 AM
It's sad when you look at a 737 and think "wow this is so modern!" haha

Its hilarious when you look at that stupid baby bus and think "wow thats as dorky looking as a Prowler".

Arado 234
04-06-2019, 06:07 AM
Its hilarious when you look at that stupid baby bus and think "wow thats as dorky looking as a Prowler".

It's hilarious when you have to look at and feel that column between your legs for up to 8 hours to satisfy possible homoerotic issues ("manly airplane" ).

Enjoy the space.

(Oh and don't forget to look at this modern overhead panel. So modern that it is excluded on most commercial 737 cockpit pictures.)

Photon1
04-06-2019, 06:08 AM
And then the 70ís happened.


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To quote the beloved Airbus:

"Retard Retard"

High tech.

Arado 234
04-06-2019, 06:10 AM
To quote the beloved Airbus:

"Retard Retard"

High tech.

British English.

Photon1
04-06-2019, 10:19 AM
British English.

British English with just a twang of sophisticated French.

airlinegypsy
04-06-2019, 10:38 AM
To quote the beloved Airbus:



"Retard Retard"



High tech.



Careful what you say about the Airbus around here. This forum is one big Airbus circle jerk.


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Photon1
04-06-2019, 10:48 AM
[QUOTE=airlinegypsy;2797581]Careful what you say about the Airbus around here. This forum is one big Airbus circle jerk.

That is hilarious!! Sums it up nicely.

nAAtive
04-07-2019, 06:08 AM
It's hilarious when you have to look at and feel that column between your legs for up to 8 hours to satisfy possible homoerotic issues ("manly airplane" ).

Enjoy the space.

(Oh and don't forget to look at this modern overhead panel. So modern that it is excluded on most commercial 737 cockpit pictures.)

Yeah those guys are miserable in their cockpits. Let them be. More seniority for us.

Arado 234
04-07-2019, 08:45 AM
Careful what you say about the Airbus around here. This forum is one big Airbus circle jerk.


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Here's some more in-depth reading about your beloved high-tech 737;

WARNING! TECHNICAL AND BRITISH ENGLISH!

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/620200-737-stuck-manual-trim-technique.html

https://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/618252-boeing-737-max-software-fixes-due-lion-air-crash-delayed.html

Arado 234
04-07-2019, 09:06 AM
Getting back to the actual topic. I wonder if the Mad Dog retirement will be postponed. It seems like every day there are additional bits of news released about more software issues on the MAX. Are there any of the first 738s that planned to be retired?

Name User
04-07-2019, 11:08 AM
Getting back to the actual topic. I wonder if the Mad Dog retirement will be postponed. It seems like every day there are additional bits of news released about more software issues on the MAX. Are there any of the first 738s that planned to be retired?

They've already pushed back some retirements to reduce CAPEX due to Wall Street analysts fuming. After Sept without the MAXs we'll be down 30-ish airplanes when the 80s go away. I think they intended to use the surplus of aircraft over the summer to fly a more robust schedule.

Photon1
04-07-2019, 11:50 AM
[QUOTE=Arado 234;2798080]Here's some more in-depth reading about your beloved high-tech
Arado,

1. I think 8 hours with a yoke would be more entertaining than sitting by you since it has 22% more personality. I ran numbers. I did.

2. I get it....you like the room so when you are not airbus circle jerking on this forum, you can actually do it enroute, non-sterile of course.

3. Don't bother reporting me, I will self report, after I drop by the hospital for a new ass since I laughed my old one off. You so funny!!!

4. I dont recall anyone making the case that the 737 was high tech. That's not the reason alot of people enjoy stuff. My boat is 1970s with no whiz bang gadgets, but I love it. Surely you are mature enough to realize this.

sumwherelse
04-07-2019, 12:33 PM
Alot is not a word. Just pointing that out.

A330FoodCritic
04-07-2019, 07:05 PM
Careful what you say about the Airbus around here. This forum is one big Airbus circle jerk.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Do Boeings have espresso makers? Just askin :D

Name User
04-07-2019, 08:14 PM
Too soon...(seriously)

ShyGuy
04-07-2019, 08:21 PM
Proof positive you really are a ****

cactusmike
04-07-2019, 09:18 PM
I think this bid was an anomaly for a couple of reasons.

Summer time is not when they want a lot of pilots in the schoolhouse. Airbus fleet is fairly steady so not much in the way of captain vacancies/ training events.

(Just a guess here)Max loss is causing a rethink on 757/S80 retirement timing. A few more months of Jurassic jet flying would be a smart move.

Public service announcement here. Please check you bids for bases/equipment you want to fly like right now. I’m the poster child for forgetting what you have as your standing bid. I’ve changed aircraft and now bases because of what’s in my pref bid and did not clean it up. It’s not the end of the world and may actually benefit me but it was a shock when I saw the bid result this time and last.

Erroneous
04-08-2019, 03:10 AM
Continuing off topic, sorry Cactus as I know you were accomplishing a course correction, hereís an article with a couple of interesting points about the 73. I for one was never taught the ďroller coaster ď method.

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/vestigal-design-issue-clouds-737-max-crash-investigations/

OVBIII
04-08-2019, 06:07 AM
Continuing off topic, sorry Cactus as I know you were accomplishing a course correction, hereís an article with a couple of interesting points about the 73. I for one was never taught the ďroller coaster ď method.

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-safety/vestigal-design-issue-clouds-737-max-crash-investigations/

Thatís interesting. I heard (and read somewhere) about stab ďblowbackĒ...is this the same aerodynamic law?

Arado 234
04-08-2019, 07:03 AM
Isn't that the same issue that caused the FlyDubai crash (#981) in Russia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flydubai_Flight_981?wprov=sfla1

Cheddar
04-08-2019, 09:00 AM
To quote the beloved Airbus:



"Retard Retard"



High tech.



Well, Iím not on the bus. 767 bid status, and I love the airplane(s). The 737 was a great airplane, but so was the 707, and the model T. Progress please.


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Arado 234
04-08-2019, 10:01 AM
Well, Iím not on the bus. 767 bid status, and I love the airplane(s). The 737 was a great airplane, but so was the 707, and the model T. Progress please.


Speaking of the 75/76, what's the company's replacement plan? 78, 321 and 73 MAX?

Cheddar
04-08-2019, 10:35 AM
Speaking of the 75/76, what's the company's replacement plan? 78, 321 and 73 MAX?



Last thing I heard a few months ago was the 767 Ďdiesí in PHL while the 757 lasts until 2025 ending in DFW.

321N is taking over the 757 classic spots in PHX and the 787 the 767 in PHL. My guess is the 321N will be a 1/1 replacement for most of the 757ís and the 788 will do the same for the Ďlong thin routesí like KEF/ANC (DFW examples). The other 788ís will be emerging markets WBís (like the 767 in PHL) or 1/1 straight 763 capacity replacements (like HI DFW flying was before they removed the 767 and sent them to PHL and the 777 took over even during the slow months).

The 789ís are the fun ones, doing what isnít profitable or logistically incapable for the 777ís. This frees up 777 fleet to be better utilized for capacity heavy routes in Europe/Asia/SA and allows us to explore other new routes with the 789ís.

Speaking earlier of Vasu, heís a HUGE fan of the 773ER and heís told anyone that asks that he wants more.

Time will tell.


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Arado 234
04-08-2019, 01:33 PM
No 350 fans in DFW?

(cry, sob)

Cheddar
04-08-2019, 02:00 PM
No 350 fans in DFW?



(cry, sob)



I wanted so bad to be friends with the trash panda... or just a jr helmsman on the starship, or...

From a DFW/fan/350/I


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Name User
04-09-2019, 09:56 AM
Last thing I heard a few months ago was the 767 Ďdiesí in PHL while the 757 lasts until 2025 ending in DFW.

321N is taking over the 757 classic spots in PHX and the 787 the 767 in PHL. My guess is the 321N will be a 1/1 replacement for most of the 757ís and the 788 will do the same for the Ďlong thin routesí like KEF/ANC (DFW examples). The other 788ís will be emerging markets WBís (like the 767 in PHL) or 1/1 straight 763 capacity replacements (like HI DFW flying was before they removed the 767 and sent them to PHL and the 777 took over even during the slow months).

The 789ís are the fun ones, doing what isnít profitable or logistically incapable for the 777ís. This frees up 777 fleet to be better utilized for capacity heavy routes in Europe/Asia/SA and allows us to explore other new routes with the 789ís.

Speaking earlier of Vasu, heís a HUGE fan of the 773ER and heís told anyone that asks that he wants more.

Time will tell.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well he said he loved the 75/76 too and a month later we had a time table for getting rid of them at an accelerated pace.

So I guess that means the -300ER is f'd. Too bad, it's one badass widebody. Nothing else has such a presence.

The 787 was originally supposed to only be eight across in coach, but AA being AA made it nine which squashed the seats. I think that is the only way it can beat the A330neo on a CASM basis. The A350 is a bigger plane than the 787 and was kinda sorta a replacement for the 747 and largest 777 variants IIRC.

The biggest issue with the 787 is range, in that it has too much, and all that cost money in the form of weight. Hence why Boeing wanted to make a MOM aircraft with a 5000 mile range. They think with a composite structure they can do so - in order to be similar in fuel burn to a narrow body it needs an elliptical fuselage which composites allow. The problem with composites is they are expensive...

TQ Nola
04-11-2019, 07:51 PM
Do Boeings have espresso makers? Just askin :D

Yes, why do you ask?

TQ Nola
04-11-2019, 07:55 PM
Posted. Not a single airbus CA award?

Noticed that. I'm withheld from the minibus, but as they have to pay me 320CA pay after June 2 anyway, I couldn't care less. Leave me on the 777 as long as you like!

Al Czervik
04-12-2019, 02:57 AM
Yes, why do you ask?

Whereís mine located?

TQ Nola
04-12-2019, 07:35 AM
Where’s mine located?

You're on the 777 and you haven't had espresso? Live a little! Also, ask your #1, she'll set you up.

cactusmike
04-12-2019, 11:17 PM
You're on the 777 and you haven't had espresso? Live a little! Also, ask your #1, she'll set you up.

Only on the -300s.

TQ Nola
04-13-2019, 08:52 AM
Only on the -300s.

Good point. The routes I like are mostly 300 routes, so I forget how the hoi polloi live sometimes.

bigscrillywilli
04-13-2019, 09:36 AM
September bid next?

Machwon
04-13-2019, 03:59 PM
September bid next?

Iím guessing June ..

Thedude
04-13-2019, 04:21 PM
September bid next?

I expect to see a bid for Oct.

Arado 234
04-14-2019, 01:58 AM
I expect to see a bid for Oct.


I think the important question about the next big bid is when (or even if) the MAX are back online. That might disrupt a lot ...



My $.02

Al Czervik
04-16-2019, 06:16 PM
I think the important question about the next big bid is when (or even if) the MAX are back online. That might disrupt a lot ...



My $.02

Letís just keep our fingers crossed for ďif.Ē

BOGSAT
05-07-2019, 06:29 AM
Iím thinking September wonít be the next bid. Is everyone thinking October with the 80 displacements?

viper548
05-07-2019, 06:47 AM
Iím thinking September wonít be the next bid. Is everyone thinking October with the 80 displacements?
That's my guess, Oct bid with training in Aug and Sept.

jcountry
05-07-2019, 12:26 PM
Let’s just keep our fingers crossed for “if.”

I don’t think the plane will get certified again.

MCAS is much more than a screwed-up control feel enhancement. (And the problem is far, far worse than some silly software error.) It was hidden by boeing for a reason, and I think that reason is the center of lift shift at high AOAs is so extreme that FAR part 25 won’t allow it.

My understanding is that it was a kluge to make the stick gradient more linear as the center of lift shift happens. Without MCAS throwing in all that trim, the plane may not be certifiable.

Boeing has kicked this can way too far down the road.

Regardless of whether it can be fixed properly, I really don’t think the public will get on those planes again. This is a real big problem for the industry.

Maybe they can scrap the max and convert orders to previous models.

airlinegypsy
05-07-2019, 01:04 PM
The public are idiots and will forget about this after the next season of American idol.


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Arado 234
05-07-2019, 02:21 PM
The public are idiots and will forget about this after the next season of American idol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree with your view on the public, but

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2019/05/07/barclays-downgrades-boeing-survey-shows-fliers-will-avoid-737-max.html

ShyGuy
05-07-2019, 04:47 PM
The 737 program survived 2 fatal rudder hardover crashes. The MAX will survive these 2 crashes too. No one pays attention to what aircraft type they are on. The overwhelming majority of the population clicks on the cheapest fare.

Name User
05-07-2019, 05:23 PM
I think rebranding would be smart. Call it the 737-8. No MAX in the name at all. You don't want to give anyone any reason to not book the flight.

It's a safe airplane. It will be even safer after it gets fixed. I'm just wondering why Boeing didn't do it right the first time.

BOGSAT
05-07-2019, 08:14 PM
I'm just wondering why Boeing didn't do it right the first time.

https://www.npr.org/2019/04/04/709431845/faa-is-not-alone-in-allowing-industry-to-self-regulate

and

$

Name User
05-08-2019, 12:39 PM
https://www.npr.org/2019/04/04/709431845/faa-is-not-alone-in-allowing-industry-to-self-regulate

and

$
In some respects I semi agree that self regulation has been a success. Aside from this issue we really haven't had any major problems with aircraft design. However certainly there needs to be some sort of oversight, or at least someone to pump the brakes, when companies get a little too aggressive.

One thing I have noticed recently is the government has started to work for the corporations and not for the people. This is, of course, repercussions from 2016 elections, but it feels like it goes deeper than that.

That is what scares me more than self regulation.

DarinFred
05-08-2019, 01:22 PM
Government working for corporations started WAY before 2016.

Arado 234
05-08-2019, 05:11 PM
In some respects I semi agree that self regulation has been a success. Aside from this issue we really haven't had any major problems with aircraft design. However certainly there needs to be some sort of oversight, or at least someone to pump the brakes, when companies get a little too aggressive.

One thing I have noticed recently is the government has started to work for the corporations and not for the people. This is, of course, repercussions from 2016 elections, but it feels like it goes deeper than that.

That is what scares me more than self regulation.


Take a look over at Germany and see what the cozy relationship between government and the car industry has done. AFAIK every German car manufacturer turned out to have cheated on/manipulated their emissions.

This Boeing problem doesn't really surprise me. But looking at things globally I agree with you that governments are helping corporations more than they should their people.

Time to rethink and limit all the money coming from K street (lobbyists)?

seafeye
05-09-2019, 01:11 PM
But the car manufacturers got Billions with a ďBĒ in fines.
Boeing will get government contracts.

Whoís in bed with who?

donkedPilot
05-09-2019, 01:18 PM
Caution: thread drift

Cl65av8or
05-09-2019, 04:13 PM
That's my guess, Oct bid with training in Aug and Sept.

I am hearing there will be no new hire training for August??? Has any one got the 411 on this and how many months will this be for if it is so??

viper548
05-10-2019, 05:37 AM
I am hearing there will be no new hire training for August??? Has any one got the 411 on this and how many months will this be for if it is so??

Last list of class dates I saw only showed one class in Aug with 0 new hires. As mentioned elsewhere there are 350 MD-80 guys getting displaced, 6 E-190s getting parked, and I think possibly some 767 movement between bases. That's a huge training bubble. I'd bet we won't really know how new hire training will be effected until we see the results of the displacement bid. If a majority of displaced pilots want to
go to widebodies, there won't be much of a backlog. If they want to go to the right seat of group 2, there could be a huge backlog. Logic would say they will scatter all over the system but suppose they all decided to bid the same thing, there could be secondary displacements.

viper548
05-10-2019, 05:42 AM
We had a net loss of pilots last month. I'm sure the company is aware that we are barely keeping up with retirements. The latest seniority list update shows 32 pilots have quit in the last 10 months. Those aren't retirements, they are junior pilots that quit, presumably going to Delta, United, FedEx. One was senior enough to hold group 2 CA!

Cl65av8or
05-10-2019, 08:07 AM
We had a net loss of pilots last month. I'm sure the company is aware that we are barely keeping up with retirements. The latest seniority list update shows 32 pilots have quit in the last 10 months. Those aren't retirements, they are junior pilots that quit, presumably going to Delta, United, FedEx. One was senior enough to hold group 2 CA!

With a net loss of pilots (retirements, folks going to other airlines) loss of the Max, MD80, E190 75/76 parking. Will there really be a need any new hires for the rest of the year?? Seems like more planes going off property then coming on property. What's the crew to aircraft ratio??

viper548
05-10-2019, 08:14 AM
EOY 18 we had 956 planes, EOY 19 is scheduled for 942, EOY 20 back to 956. The need for hiring is still there.

TransWorld
05-10-2019, 03:50 PM
The retirement train is headed down the tracks. It is building speed.

There will be minor bumps on the track, but it is so massive no one current working has ever seen this in their careers.

Thedude
05-10-2019, 05:28 PM
Can somebody ne tell me where to find the previous vacancy bid? I need to compare some numbers and I can’t seem to find it.

AAfng
05-10-2019, 07:14 PM
I have it, what do you need?

Arado 234
05-10-2019, 08:22 PM
The retirement train is headed down the tracks. It is building speed.

There will be minor bumps on the track, but it is so massive no one current working has ever seen this in their careers.

The pilot shortage is finally here. Time to enjoy a industry-leading contract! Oh wait...

seafeye
05-11-2019, 07:57 AM
The pilot shortage is finally here. Time to enjoy a industry-leading contract! Oh wait...

We should schedule everyone at the APA office to work their 40 hours on a Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday Monday. Then when they try to change it we will just tell them itís redder than red. Sorry you have to work. Maybe then will they realize what a turd of a contract we have.

Godzilla
05-19-2019, 12:32 PM
We should schedule everyone at the APA office to work their 40 hours on a Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday Monday. Then when they try to change it we will just tell them itís redder than red. Sorry you have to work. Maybe then will they realize what a turd of a contract we have.

Yeah and from 00:59 to 08:00 am with a 10 hour rest period too.

AFTrainerGuy
05-19-2019, 02:19 PM
We should schedule everyone at the APA office to work their 40 hours on a Thursday Friday Saturday Sunday Monday. Then when they try to change it we will just tell them itís redder than red. Sorry you have to work. Maybe then will they realize what a turd of a contract we have.

That is honestly one of the best ideas Iíve heard in a while. Good on you sir

As for hiring to keep up with retirements, I donít think they need to. Look at how much people are flying. Cocktail napkin math shows that if everyone just works 5 hours more (15000 x 5 = 75000 hrs), they reduce the need for about 1,000 pilots averaging 75 hours a month. Now look at the LCW and the average guy out there. Look at how much reserves seem to be utilized compared to a few years ago. Weíre just filling some of the hiring spots by having guys on property fly more. Weíre still gonna need to hire a metric truckload, but, I donít see the need to 1 to 1 backfill every retirement. Didnít seem that long ago 75 was sorta the norm, now it seems like 85 is the new norm.

ORDinary
05-19-2019, 04:33 PM
That is honestly one of the best ideas Iíve heard in a while. Good on you sir

As for hiring to keep up with retirements, I donít think they need to. Look at how much people are flying. Cocktail napkin math shows that if everyone just works 5 hours more (15000 x 5 = 75000 hrs), they reduce the need for about 1,000 pilots averaging 75 hours a month. Now look at the LCW and the average guy out there. Look at how much reserves seem to be utilized compared to a few years ago. Weíre just filling some of the hiring spots by having guys on property fly more. Weíre still gonna need to hire a metric truckload, but, I donít see the need to 1 to 1 backfill every retirement. Didnít seem that long ago 75 was sorta the norm, now it seems like 85 is the new norm.

Yeah but what you're suggesting would require that 85 to go up and up every year if they hire less than the retirements. Do you really see everyone averaging 95 hours?

AFTrainerGuy
05-19-2019, 10:07 PM
Yeah but what you're suggesting would require that 85 to go up and up every year if they hire less than the retirements. Do you really see everyone averaging 95 hours?

No... And yeah I know it gets to a point you canít go higher.

But like a frog in a boiling pot analogy, just slight incremental changes can still shave a few here and there

AFTrainerGuy
05-19-2019, 11:12 PM
No... And yeah I know it gets to a point you canít go higher.

But like a frog in a boiling pot analogy, just slight incremental changes can still shave a few here and there

I guess what Iím getting at is little things here and there can add up. Just 5 hours across the board can decrease a significant amount (to a point, you are right). But there are other things too.

Take vacation and reserve rules. When I did my PBS class, they were selling it as this good thing where I get paid like 9-10 extra hours that month. They sorta glossed over the fact that I used to only be on hook for 11-13 days in a vacation month of work, but now with proration table, itís 14 days with a 7 day vacation. That extra couple of days across thousands of pilots adds up.

And you can just keep looking at little things just here and there that make what looks like small changes really add up when added across the aggregate of pilots.

Sure, there is a wall that gets hit eventually, but I really just donít see a pure 1-1 replacement needed immediately. Way cheaper to pay more when you need the extra work (and people will), than to hold on to excess fat in the slow times because of ancillary costs of employees (health, social security, Medicare, workers comp, vacation benefits, sick, etc). Seems like unlike the government ďmore with lessĒ, weíre moving to a ďMore with a little moreĒ way of doing business.

Of course, I could be wrong. Definitely wouldnít be the first time

ORDinary
05-20-2019, 03:24 AM
No... And yeah I know it gets to a point you canít go higher.

But like a frog in a boiling pot analogy, just slight incremental changes can still shave a few here and there

I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think that they've already relied on a lot of those little changes to help staffing, and they've almost run out of ways they can squeeze us more. And we're still not to the heaviest retirement years. It seems impossible that they'll be able to keep up with training.

Arado 234
05-20-2019, 05:06 AM
I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think that they've already relied on a lot of those little changes to help staffing, and they've almost run out of ways they can squeeze us more. And we're still not to the heaviest retirement years. It seems impossible that they'll be able to keep up with training.

Last I saw they weren't able to get two shuttles from the Atrium to the training center at 05:30. There were always a couple of folks who got left behind.

AFTrainerGuy
05-20-2019, 07:10 AM
I'm not saying you're wrong, I just think that they've already relied on a lot of those little changes to help staffing, and they've almost run out of ways they can squeeze us more. And we're still not to the heaviest retirement years. It seems impossible that they'll be able to keep up with training.

Ya... your right. Probably closer to end of relying on it. Heck, apparently all they got left in their bag of tricks to save this company from upcoming disaster this summer is fly .79 and start APU 5 minutes earlier.

Arado 234
05-20-2019, 07:36 AM
Ya... your right. Probably closer to end of relying on it. Heck, apparently all they got left in their bag of tricks to save this company from upcoming disaster this summer is fly .79 and start APU 5 minutes earlier.

I just learned my lesson this week. I extended. Helped out the company. Felt sorry for our passengers that had high hopes to not disappoint them (no sarcasm). Asked for premium for that leg. Almost got laughed at.

Sorry CS Manager. I can play that game, too. Just watch!

Andrew_VT
05-20-2019, 09:49 AM
Asked for premium for that leg. Almost got laughed at.

Sorry CS Manager. I can play that game, too. Just watch!

"I might be fatigued, or I might not be, depends if you pay me extra" = something that can get you fired.

Arado 234
05-20-2019, 10:49 AM
"I might be fatigued, or I might not be, depends if you pay me extra" = something that can get you fired.

Indeed. That's why I couldn't play that game. Didn't even get a thank you from CS.

The f/a's got premium for their entire trip. "I want VR (or whatever their premium code is) or we're not going". That worked.

An extension should be premium.

I won't extend. Period.

RhinoBallAuto
05-20-2019, 10:53 AM
Indeed. That's why I couldn't play that game. Didn't even get a thank you from CS.

The f/a's got premium for their entire trip. "I want VR (or whatever their premium code is) or we're not going". That worked.

An extension should be premium.

There's a CP that got into some hot water for offering credit to extend.

IMHO, introducing a monetary element to the extension calculus is a recipe for bad decisions... It'd be ripe for abuse, AND if there were ever an event/incident/accident that had a link to fatigue, it would be hard to defend the motivation wasn't purely financial.

Name User
05-20-2019, 01:37 PM
There's a CP that got into some hot water for offering credit to extend.

IMHO, introducing a monetary element to the extension calculus is a recipe for bad decisions... It'd be ripe for abuse, AND if there were ever an event/incident/accident that had a link to fatigue, it would be hard to defend the motivation wasn't purely financial.

You just agreed to work for up to two hours longer for no additional pay.

You don't feel that warrants the extra money?

airlinegypsy
05-20-2019, 01:49 PM
Indeed. That's why I couldn't play that game. Didn't even get a thank you from CS.



The f/a's got premium for their entire trip. "I want VR (or whatever their premium code is) or we're not going". That worked.



An extension should be premium.



I won't extend. Period.



F/as have something in their contract about getting extra pay for extending their duty day.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

mainlineAF
05-20-2019, 05:21 PM
Does anyone think there will be secondary displacements from this bid?

I donít think there will be, but as someone extremely junior in category I made sure to have my displacements up to date.

206321
05-20-2019, 05:21 PM
United pilots get paid if they chose to extend. Only makes sense to me.

+2 hours credit for extending up to 30 minutes
+5 hours credit :31 minutes - 2 hours

Of course no one should extend when fatigued and its up to your professional judgement to not let extra money influence your decision.

However, if you are going to be working extra hours (from a delay) then you should be paid more for it. That's how it is in most jobs....

This is a must in our next contract.

crusher
05-20-2019, 05:38 PM
I would consider extension pay if the company changes premium to 200%. If we are Ďgivingí them better extension protection we should get something too.

AFTrainerGuy
05-20-2019, 08:20 PM
Does anyone think there will be secondary displacements from this bid?

I donít think there will be, but as someone extremely junior in category I made sure to have my displacements up to date.


I donít know. Iím not that junior in status and did same just in case too. If I had to lay $$$ down, Iíd bet NO

nimslow
05-21-2019, 05:07 AM
I donít know. Iím not that junior in status and did same just in case too. If I had to lay $$$ down, Iíd bet NO

Considering the way things work around here, I wont be surprised at all, if a bunch of us get displaced, only to be back in training again in six months.

I'm junior in status, and made sure all my displacement preferences are updated.

DarinFred
05-21-2019, 11:27 AM
I donít extend. Itís easy when you make that decision before hand.

OVBIII
05-21-2019, 12:59 PM
I donít extend. Itís easy when you make that decision before hand.

Amen. (Filler)

Dobbs18
05-21-2019, 01:55 PM
I donít extend. Itís easy when you make that decision before hand.

I will extend to get my ass home and done with a trip...if contract negotiations drag out, then I won't extend for any reason. Just trying to be honest, and I know lots of guys that extend to get home.

Godzilla
05-21-2019, 02:14 PM
I will extend to get my ass home and done with a trip...if contract negotiations drag out, then I won't extend for any reason. Just trying to be honest, and I know lots of guys that extend to get home.

Tried that a while ago.
After getting to base had to wait 40 mins for a gate so I missed the last flight home anyway.
Ashamed to have done it and it certainly will not happen again.
Its those unexpected creeping delays that bite you.

DarinFred
05-21-2019, 04:16 PM
ďGetting homeĒ is the absolute worst reason to extend. Youíll be crucified if anything happens. I just donít see any reason to extend. None.

Had an old instructor tell me ďThereís nothing we have to do today that canít be done tomorrow.Ē

C11DCA
05-22-2019, 04:08 AM
United pilots get paid if they chose to extend. Only makes sense to me.

+2 hours credit for extending up to 30 minutes
+5 hours credit :31 minutes - 2 hours

Of course no one should extend when fatigued and its up to your professional judgement to not let extra money influence your decision.

However, if you are going to be working extra hours (from a delay) then you should be paid more for it. That's how it is in most jobs....

This is a must in our next contract.

For the United extension pay, what you failed to mention is that itís designed for augmented operations, (any FRMS exemption flight gets the add pay automatically) and if unaugmented it is only available if there is just a single leg in that duty period.


5-F-1-h-(1) For unaugmented Duty Periods, this Section 5-F-1-h shall apply only if there is a single flight in the Duty Period (for purposes of this Section 5-F-1-h, a deadhead deviation shall not be considered to be a flight in the Duty Period), a ground return shall be considered to be a flight in the Duty Period, and an air return shall be considered to be a flight in the Duty Period). ĎA single flight in the Duty Periodí means there is only one legal flight in the unaugmented Duty Period, as measured at the actual time of take-off of the first flight in the unaugmented Duty Period.


So for most domestic ops, there is no add pay for extending ones duty day.

Arado 234
05-22-2019, 05:13 AM
ďGetting homeĒ is the absolute worst reason to extend. Youíll be crucified if anything happens. I just donít see any reason to extend. None.

Had an old instructor tell me ďThereís nothing we have to do today that canít be done tomorrow.Ē

I agree, but see this with mixed emotions if we continue to crap on our passengers.

Who is the CS manager that keeps pushing crews and withholding premium pay?

mainlineAF
05-22-2019, 05:49 AM
I agree, but see this with mixed emotions if we continue to crap on our passengers.



Who is the CS manager that keeps pushing crews and withholding premium pay?



Yep. If Iím not fatigued I extend. Sometimes we forget there are 200 customers who you are going to strand.

Now come January 1st things may change. But for now I will continue to extend if I am fit.

DarinFred
05-22-2019, 06:19 AM
Keep leaning forward. If Iím in back, I donít want a dude whoís been up 16-20 hours operating. Mission hackers gonna hack I guess.

Al Czervik
05-22-2019, 04:56 PM
Yep. If Iím not fatigued I extend. Sometimes we forget there are 200 customers who you are going to strand.

Now come January 1st things may change. But for now I will continue to extend if I am fit.

Do you think having pilots available to fly for you after 12-14 hours of duty is maybe something the company should think about?

Name User
05-22-2019, 06:34 PM
Do you think having pilots available to fly for you after 12-14 hours of duty is maybe something the company should think about?

Considering most commuters have 16+ hour days on their first day there really is no leg to stand on.

There are guys that commute cross country on a red eye to start their full day of flying that morning...

UPTme
05-22-2019, 06:38 PM
There are guys that commute cross country on a red eye to start their full day of flying that morning...

That's what the FO on Colgan 3407 did.

ShyGuy
05-22-2019, 07:06 PM
That's what the FO on Colgan 3407 did.

She flew in the Fedex redeye but her trip didnít report until the afternoon. As it turned out their EWR-ROC turn cancelled and they had to fly just the BUF leg that night. Theoretically she could have had some sleep in the morning and afternoon in her duration at the crew room.

Erroneous
05-23-2019, 04:32 AM
She flew in the Fedex redeye but her trip didnít report until the afternoon. As it turned out their EWR-ROC turn cancelled and they had to fly just the BUF leg that night. Theoretically she could have had some sleep in the morning and afternoon in her duration at the crew room.

Thatíd be a stretch. Never flew for Colgan but the Commuter Airline crew room had no option that allowed for sleep where I was at.

Saabs
05-23-2019, 06:16 AM
Thatíd be a stretch. Never flew for Colgan but the Commuter Airline crew room had no option that allowed for sleep where I was at.

Actually we werenít allowed to turn off the lights / nap in the crew room after the crash to prove to the FAA that we werenít attempting to get rest in the crew room. She could have napped or gone to a hotel. But it was probably more of a product of her being sick at the time if I had to guess.

Omniscient
05-23-2019, 10:15 AM
Actually we werenít allowed to turn off the lights / nap in the crew room after the crash to prove to the FAA that we werenít attempting to get rest in the crew room. She could have napped or gone to a hotel. But it was probably more of a product of her being sick at the time if I had to guess.

And the fact she made $26/hr as a 2nd year FO. Iím guessing getting a hotel for a few hours wasnít a financial option

Aviatrx
05-23-2019, 11:44 AM
Yep. If Iím not fatigued I extend. Sometimes we forget there are 200 customers who you are going to strand.

Now come January 1st things may change. But for now I will continue to extend if I am fit.

There are slides in our fatigue training that basically say 13 hours of wakefulness is the equivalent of being too drunk to fly. So if something were to happen on that last segment of your trip, it would be pretty tough for you to argue that you were not fatigued. Do whatever you feel is best, but you might be making a bad decision due to fatigue

Name User
05-23-2019, 11:47 AM
There are slides in our fatigue training that basically say 13 hours of wakefulness is the equivalent of being too drunk to fly. So if something were to happen on that last segment of your trip, it would be pretty tough for you to argue that you were not fatigued. Do whatever you feel is best, but you might be making a bad decision due to fatigue

If that were true everyone would be drunk driving on their way home from work...everyday.

Total BS study IMO.

mainlineAF
05-23-2019, 12:52 PM
There are slides in our fatigue training that basically say 13 hours of wakefulness is the equivalent of being too drunk to fly. So if something were to happen on that last segment of your trip, it would be pretty tough for you to argue that you were not fatigued. Do whatever you feel is best, but you might be making a bad decision due to fatigue



If that was true then commuting would be illegal.

All Iím saying is one is fit for duty then we have an obligation to take care of our passengers.

ShyGuy
05-23-2019, 03:41 PM
Thatíd be a stretch. Never flew for Colgan but the Commuter Airline crew room had no option that allowed for sleep where I was at.

Technically I don't think it was allowed back then either. But both the Colgan accident CA and FO did not have any crashpad in EWR and were known to nap/sleep in the crew room rest areas/sofas.

bigscrillywilli
05-23-2019, 04:03 PM
Whenís the award come out? Hahahaha

EMBFlyer
05-23-2019, 04:32 PM
Reading some of the excuses for extending is scary.

"There is no mission." -Captain Cecil Ewell, Vice President of Flight

DarinFred
05-23-2019, 05:17 PM
If that was true then commuting would be illegal.

All Iím saying is one is fit for duty then we have an obligation to take care of our passengers.

It would be illegal if you signed fit to fly when you werenít. How many commuters have done that?

OOfff
05-24-2019, 06:43 AM
There are slides in our fatigue training that basically say 13 hours of wakefulness is the equivalent of being too drunk to fly. So if something were to happen on that last segment of your trip, it would be pretty tough for you to argue that you were not fatigued. Do whatever you feel is best, but you might be making a bad decision due to fatigue

Do you commute?

Aviatrx
05-24-2019, 09:44 AM
Not any more, but I have commuted 11/12 years 121. Commuting does complicate this issue. It cost me a lot of money in crash pads and hotels and certainly created fatigue situations. I would simply call fatigued when necessary. I have even fatigued or delayed after staying in crappy hotels. It is an individuals choice. I extended once and then regretted doing it. Customers are still angry, I am tired, and nobody cares.

OOfff
05-24-2019, 12:16 PM
Not any more, but I have commuted 11/12 years 121. Commuting does complicate this issue. It cost me a lot of money in crash pads and hotels and certainly created fatigue situations. I would simply call fatigued when necessary. I have even fatigued or delayed after staying in crappy hotels. It is an individuals choice. I extended once and then regretted doing it. Customers are still angry, I am tired, and nobody cares.

Do you seriously think people should be calling fatigued after 13 hours awake?

Al Czervik
05-24-2019, 05:06 PM
Do you seriously think people should be calling fatigued after 13 hours awake?

Depends. Some days 13 hours is a breeze. Some, not so much.

Spoiler
05-26-2019, 11:44 AM
Great throw money at the extenders - now there's more pressure on the one crew member to express fatigue

FlyyGuyy
05-27-2019, 06:22 PM
How long does it normally take to publish the bid result like the one that closed on Saturday? ( New here)

nimslow
05-27-2019, 06:44 PM
How long does it normally take to publish the bid result like the one that closed on Saturday? ( New here)

It's been running 14 business days, give or take. I expect this one may take a little longer, due to all the displacements.

FlyyGuyy
05-27-2019, 06:46 PM
It's been running 14 business days, give or take. I expect this one may take a little longer, due to all the displacements.

not too bad i had heard 6 weeks from a few people, but i didn't think that could be right.

thank you for the help.

isuguy
06-11-2019, 03:08 PM
Are the final results from these vacancy bids archived on AA Pilots somewhere? Or APA? Link or vector to em?

nAAtive
06-12-2019, 12:27 PM
Are the final results from these vacancy bids archived on AA Pilots somewhere? Or APA? Link or vector to em?

Final awards arenít out yet. They will be where they always are on aa pilots

isuguy
06-12-2019, 02:10 PM
The August vacancy isnít out? Iím new so the October vacancy is my 1st experience. I saw the prelim results, just wondering if previous vacancy final results are archived somewhere?

BeechPilot33
07-04-2019, 04:45 AM
If that were true everyone would be drunk driving on their way home from work...everyday.

Total BS study IMO.

Listen to JRE #1109 on your next DH and report back. Interesting stuff.

Cheddar
07-05-2019, 07:25 AM
Thanks to deadheads, Iíve gone too far down the JRE rabbit hole. I now believe Bob Lazar and Graham Hancock, but Iíve avoided flat earth craziness... for now!


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Lahey
07-05-2019, 07:34 AM
If that were true everyone would be drunk driving on their way home from work...everyday.

Total BS study IMO.

Research sleep science, youíd be surprised man.

PRS Guitars
07-05-2019, 12:17 PM
Research sleep science, youíd be surprised man.

The original quote was ď13 hours of wakefulness is equivalent to drunk drivingĒ since we are typically awake 16 hours every day, Iím thinking this was a typo. If not, like nameuser said, itís BS. They're saying that anybody driving in the evening is equivalent to a drunk driver even if sober...

PRS Guitars
07-05-2019, 12:17 PM
Listen to JRE #1109 on your next DH and report back. Interesting stuff.

Who is JRE?

Name User
07-05-2019, 12:57 PM
Research sleep science, youíd be surprised man.

Yeah I would be, seeing as how pretty much every human being can function normally with 13 hours of wakefulness :D.

https://www.cdc.gov/sleep/about_sleep/drowsy_driving.html

There is so much more to it though, someone doing extreme physical activity in the hot sun will be much more tired than someone who sits in an air conditioned office for the same amount of time. Also an impact is how much sleep prior to the day starts that the person got.

Cheddar
07-05-2019, 03:03 PM
Who is JRE?



https://www.joerogan.com/#jre-section

ďOprah for menĒ


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RhinoBallAuto
07-05-2019, 07:16 PM
The original quote was ď13 hours of wakefulness is equivalent to drunk drivingĒ since we are typically awake 16 hours every day, Iím thinking this was a typo. If not, like nameuser said, itís BS. They're saying that anybody driving in the evening is equivalent to a drunk driver even if sober...

Well duh....if I'm awake for 13-plus, I'm almost certainly drinking during the closing hours of the night, or else I'm definitely doing it wrong