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View Full Version : Envoy Pilots AA?


gripngrab
03-09-2019, 06:09 PM
Had an Envoy jumpseater today. He was a young kid, mid 20s who came in and said he was AA. I asked for his docs and his badge said Envoy. I asked was he AA or Envoy. His reply was Envoy is wholly owned by AA. I then asked what he was flying and he said 175. Quite arrogant but was sitting in the back so OK, whatever.

What type of kool aid are you guys pumping into these kids?


Flyboy68
03-09-2019, 06:34 PM
Had an Envoy jumpseater today. He was a young kid, mid 20s who came in and said he was AA. I asked for his docs and his badge said Envoy. I asked was he AA or Envoy. His reply was Envoy is wholly owned by AA. I then asked what he was flying and he said 175. Quite arrogant but was sitting in the back so OK, whatever.

What type of kool aid are you guys pumping into these kids?
Jeez. If your badge says Envoy, you work for Envoy, not AA.

What a tool.

pitchattitude
03-09-2019, 06:35 PM
Had an Envoy jumpseater today. He was a young kid, mid 20s who came in and said he was AA. I asked for his docs and his badge said Envoy. I asked was he AA or Envoy. His reply was Envoy is wholly owned by AA. I then asked what he was flying and he said 175. Quite arrogant but was sitting in the back so OK, whatever.

What type of kool aid are you guys pumping into these kids?
While this guys is an idiot either way, I’m hoping he was “confused” since at most other airlines we have to list under AA and not Envoy for the JS.

There are a few noted exceptions who just plain think we are AA. And those idiots brew their own KoolAid.


3GreenKSNA
03-09-2019, 06:37 PM
Had an Envoy jumpseater today. He was a young kid, mid 20s who came in and said he was AA. I asked for his docs and his badge said Envoy. I asked was he AA or Envoy. His reply was Envoy is wholly owned by AA. I then asked what he was flying and he said 175. Quite arrogant but was sitting in the back so OK, whatever.



What type of kool aid are you guys pumping into these kids?So sorry you had to deal with that guy. Do me a favor and give your jump seat committee a call so they can call ours and this guy will get a talking to. Last thing myself or the other 90% of the pilot group needs is putting a bad taste in another pilot's mouth. Entitled, spoiled, selfish, socially incompetent, and un professional pilots is not something we need in this industry and the ones that are out there need to get a clue. Again sincerest apologies.

-Keep the dirty side down

Varsity
03-09-2019, 06:43 PM
So sorry you had to deal with that guy. Do me a favor and give your jump seat committee a call so they can call ours and this guy will get a talking to. Last thing myself or the other 90% of the pilot group needs is putting a bad taste in another pilot's mouth. Entitled, spoiled, selfish, socially incompetent, and un professional pilots is not something we need in this industry and the ones that are out there need to get a clue. Again sincerest apologies.

-Keep the dirty side down

I'll second this.

I'm at ENY and you definitely need to follow up on this.

There is a small group of dumb turds running around this place. Don't be afraid to set them straight.

Flyboy68
03-09-2019, 07:21 PM
Had an Envoy jumpseater today. He was a young kid, mid 20s who came in and said he was AA. I asked for his docs and his badge said Envoy. I asked was he AA or Envoy. His reply was Envoy is wholly owned by AA. I then asked what he was flying and he said 175. Quite arrogant but was sitting in the back so OK, whatever.

What type of kool aid are you guys pumping into these kids?That kid deserves this.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o84sv2u7KSHKbwPza/giphy.gif

DilsonWic
03-09-2019, 07:27 PM
Surprised he didn’t say “I’m on the 75.”

bigtime209
03-09-2019, 07:41 PM
Had an Envoy jumpseater today. He was a young kid, mid 20s who came in and said he was AA. I asked for his docs and his badge said Envoy. I asked was he AA or Envoy. His reply was Envoy is wholly owned by AA. I then asked what he was flying and he said 175. Quite arrogant but was sitting in the back so OK, whatever.

What type of kool aid are you guys pumping into these kids?

As others have said, please contact your JS committee. He's in the minority, but some of these young kids think they're a little more special than they are because they fly an RJ with engines mounted on the wing.

bigtime209
03-09-2019, 07:44 PM
That kid deserves this.

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o84sv2u7KSHKbwPza/giphy.gif

You have no credibility posting here Mr. "I'll go to any regional that I can, regardless of pay, work rules or contract as long as I get to fly a sexy E175 as a street CA".

Weekendwarrior2
03-09-2019, 08:31 PM
Someone will set him straight eventually. Life goes on...

Flyboy68
03-09-2019, 08:39 PM
You have no credibility posting here Mr. "I'll go to any regional that I can, regardless of pay, work rules or contract as long as I get to fly a sexy E175 as a street CA".You sir, are a damn liar.

Please find a quote like that from me and I will never post here again.

I'll be waiting for your apology.

satpak77
03-09-2019, 08:49 PM
This flares up every few years, regional dudes telling girls at the bar they fly for the mainline

Flyboy68
03-09-2019, 09:47 PM
This flares up every few years, regional dudes telling girls at the bar they fly for the mainlineWell that's perfectly acceptable, but don't tell that to other pilots. :D

WillFlyForeFood
03-09-2019, 09:48 PM
This flares up every few years, regional dudes telling girls at the bar they fly for the mainline

How else are we supposed to pick up chicks then??

But no in all seriousness, only time it's ok is when ppl ask who you work for and explaining, a company that flies for American Eagle is easier to explain then saying Envoy. Because let's be real, 99.9% of the ppl flying in the planes have no clue the planes are Envoy, PSA, Republic, Skywest, etc...

NoValueAviator
03-10-2019, 04:53 AM
Who else tells people you don’t want to talk to/aren’t in the airline industry that you work for American Eagle? Cause I do that a lot, instead of explaining the whole regional business model.

On topic, this guy was probably a new scrub fresh out of indoc where they tell us to “say we’re AA when jumpseating” because we have to do this w/ the gate agent for CASS purposes. We all know we’re regional paupers unfit to look mainline lords in the eye.

inevitableneb
03-10-2019, 05:15 AM
Dear OP. Your gonna need to get over yourself.

rondonq1
03-10-2019, 05:55 AM
Dear OP. Your gonna need to get over yourself.

I think you right my friend. He need to apologize. They say you AA pilot day one in envoy indoc

V12Merlin
03-10-2019, 05:59 AM
I'll second this.

I'm at ENY and you definitely need to follow up on this.

There is a small group of dumb turds running around this place. Don't be afraid to set them straight.

True. Mostly over at HQ doing interviews.

Really eye opening.

Cyio
03-10-2019, 07:17 AM
I am sure it was a young new hire that simply got confused as to what to say, since they are instructed to say that for jump seating issues at the gate.

MD-11Loader
03-10-2019, 08:18 AM
Who else tells people you don’t want to talk to/aren’t in the airline industry that you work for American Eagle? Cause I do that a lot, instead of explaining the whole regional business model.

I always say that I work for Eagle rather than explaining it. When I get someone who says which one and understands that there used to be a real American Eagle then I say Envoy. Sometimes I have to explain how we were named after a crappy US Airways “first class” product and how our name was changed into a brand.

kelpflyer
03-10-2019, 08:27 AM
I think you right my friend. He need to apologize. They say you AA pilot day one in envoy indoc



He needs to apologize for relating a story about a guy who said he was AA but was Envoy? ? While I was at Envoy I was never once told to say I was anything else. What if I checked in saying I was Envoy and flashed my AA badge? You would be asking the same kinda questions. Before this gets spun further-this is not a regional vs mainline thing. You fly for the company listed in your badge. That simple.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Flyboy68
03-10-2019, 03:03 PM
Who else tells people you don’t want to talk to/aren’t in the airline industry that you work for American Eagle? Cause I do that a lot, instead of explaining the whole regional business model.

On topic, this guy was probably a new scrub fresh out of indoc where they tell us to “say we’re AA when jumpseating” because we have to do this w/ the gate agent for CASS purposes. We all know we’re regional paupers unfit to look mainline lords in the eye. LMAO


filler

gripngrab
03-10-2019, 03:25 PM
Dear OP. Your gonna need to get over yourself.

Unfortunately this sounds a lot like the same attitude the jumpseater had.

ENH017
03-10-2019, 08:12 PM
Had an Envoy jumpseater today. He was a young kid, mid 20s who came in and said he was AA. I asked for his docs and his badge said Envoy. I asked was he AA or Envoy. His reply was Envoy is wholly owned by AA. I then asked what he was flying and he said 175. Quite arrogant but was sitting in the back so OK, whatever.

What type of kool aid are you guys pumping into these kids?

Were you in uniform? I'll tell people I'm AA if they ask and I don't think they have a clue what an "Envoy" is. It was probably a new kid anyways, he'll figure it out eventually, not sure why it has to be taken so personally.

Flyboy68
03-10-2019, 09:11 PM
Were you in uniform? I'll tell people I'm AA if they ask and I don't think they have a clue what an "Envoy" is. It was probably a new kid anyways, he'll figure it out eventually, not sure why it has to be taken so personally.
By the OP's quote, I assume he was the flight crew on the aircraft .

"Had an Envoy jumpseater today."

arbatistoni
03-10-2019, 09:51 PM
Had an Envoy jumpseater today. He was a young kid, mid 20s who came in and said he was AA. I asked for his docs and his badge said Envoy. I asked was he AA or Envoy. His reply was Envoy is wholly owned by AA. I then asked what he was flying and he said 175. Quite arrogant but was sitting in the back so OK, whatever.

What type of kool aid are you guys pumping into these kids?

Whew the first line of this kinda worried me for a sec haha. I jump seated on aa today and i'm a mid 20s looking "kid". But it was cockpit jumpseat. I Fly the 145, and i always say "envoy" because I don't think so little of other pilots as to assume they don't know the difference.

ag386
03-11-2019, 08:57 AM
Whew the first line of this kinda worried me for a sec haha. I jump seated on aa today and i'm a mid 20s looking "kid". But it was cockpit jumpseat. I Fly the 145, and i always say "envoy" because I don't think so little of other pilots as to assume they don't know the difference.

Cool story bro. Looks like we got us another AA pilot right here.

Smutter
03-11-2019, 03:35 PM
I think you right my friend. He need to apologize. They say you AA pilot day one in envoy indoc

This is for the gate agent so she can find us. Telling another pilot you work for somebody you don't is not the intent of that. Common sense.

Smutter
03-11-2019, 03:36 PM
Dear OP. Your gonna need to get over yourself.

You must be the kid

inevitableneb
03-11-2019, 04:11 PM
You must be the kid

Think so? You don't think that getting so bent out of shape over this that you just gotta post doesn't seem a bit ridiculous?

gripngrab
03-11-2019, 05:10 PM
Think so? You don't think that getting so bent out of shape over this that you just gotta post doesn't seem a bit ridiculous?

I was the captain on the flight and FYI, I work for an LCC not a legacy. I sure didn’t take my post as getting bent out of shape. It’s more amusing really than anything. Exchange goes like this.

FA says you have a jumpseater. Guy comes in and says, “Hi I am XXXXX with American. I’m riding in the back. I have a seat.”

I ask for his badge, license, medical and JS form. He hands them over. JS form says Envoy. His badge says Envoy. I ask, “Are you AA or Envoy?” Response was “Envoy is wholly owned by American.” I tell him to take his seat and welcome. I feel I was quite nice considering the circumstances. The guy was really condescending with his wholly owned response.

dera
03-11-2019, 05:13 PM
I was the captain on the flight and FYI, I work for an LCC not a legacy. I sure didn’t take my post as getting bent out of shape. It’s more amusing really than anything. Exchange goes like this.

FA says you have a jumpseater. Guy comes in and says, “Hi I am XXXXX with American. I’m riding in the back. I have a seat.”

I ask for his badge, license, medical and JS form. He hands them over. JS form says Envoy. His badge says Envoy. I ask, “Are you AA or Envoy?” Response was “Envoy is wholly owned by American.” I tell him to take his seat and welcome. I feel I was quite nice considering the circumstances. The guy was really condescending with his wholly owned response.

Did he say "I'm riding in the back" or "any chance to ride in the back"?

gripngrab
03-11-2019, 05:15 PM
Did he say "I'm riding in the back" or "any chance to ride in the back"?

What is listed above is verbatim.

dera
03-11-2019, 05:18 PM
What is listed above is verbatim.

There are captains who would've said "wanna bet?" if someone says they are riding in the back.

SEAtoSummit
03-11-2019, 05:22 PM
I was the captain on the flight and FYI, I work for an LCC not a legacy. I sure didn’t take my post as getting bent out of shape. It’s more amusing really than anything. Exchange goes like this.

FA says you have a jumpseater. Guy comes in and says, “Hi I am XXXXX with American. I’m riding in the back. I have a seat.”

I ask for his badge, license, medical and JS form. He hands them over. JS form says Envoy. His badge says Envoy. I ask, “Are you AA or Envoy?” Response was “Envoy is wholly owned by American.” I tell him to take his seat and welcome. I feel I was quite nice considering the circumstances. The guy was really condescending with his wholly owned response.

Purely out of curiosity, is it your carrier's policy to do a document check for jump-seaters riding in the cabin? I've only ever been carded when I actually have to ride in the cockpit. Honest question; I've never JS'd on Spirit/Frontier/Jetblue and wonder if I ought to have my papers ready if I ever do.

buddies8
03-11-2019, 06:31 PM
Well let see, you are riding in the back based on your jumpseat priviledge. So you are required to check in with the captain, FAA rule and company policy. I'd you are non rev either zeds or id90 then no, you dont need to check with captain, but you do if traveling on jumpseat priveledge.
So none up on proper procedures and not facebook b.s.

Flyboy68
03-11-2019, 06:35 PM
What is listed above is verbatim.Damn, this kid needs a talking to.

It's common courtesy to let the CA decide where you're sitting. If there's room in the back, they usually say so and give you the option. You do not tell them "I'm sitting in the back," even if there are plenty of open sests. It's the CA's decision. SMDH

SEAtoSummit
03-11-2019, 06:50 PM
Well let see, you are riding in the back based on your jumpseat priviledge. So you are required to check in with the captain, FAA rule and company policy. I'd you are non rev either zeds or id90 then no, you dont need to check with captain, but you do if traveling on jumpseat priveledge.
So none up on proper procedures and not facebook b.s.

Oh, absolutely dude. I ALWAYS check in with the captain with a “Hi there captain. Do you mind if I catch a ride home/to work with you this morning? (Sure, welcome aboard) Awesome, I appreciate it! (They give you a seat?) Yes sir/ma’am, they gave me a seat in back.”

With a cabin seat assignment, I don’t normally check in with my medical/license out of my wallet and in-hand, because I’ve never been asked to show them with a seat in back. Granted I mostly commute on company metal and SkyWest - maybe their captains are a little more loose with jumpseat credential checks. Not trying to start a fight - just asking.

buddies8
03-11-2019, 07:33 PM
maybe you should check what envoy has for jumpseat for pilot cass approved airline requires. Here make it easy for you, fmp-1
sec 15-45 all the way to the bottom. It is required.

If you are talking an AAG employee traveling on AAG owned aircraft as a d2, no you do not have to check in with captain, but if you are checking in as a jumpseater you most certainly do have to check in with the captain. If you don't want to that is your choice, be aware you can be turned in to your company and have you cass restricted.

We have unlimited jumpseat privilege now, it used to be 1 seat only, it can revert to the way it was.

Weekendwarrior2
03-11-2019, 07:43 PM
There are captains who would've said "wanna bet?" if someone says they are riding in the back.



Those types of CAs are generally a**holes to fly with. 75% of the time guys/gals say the same to me, wish it wasn’t required for them to check in in the first place if they have a seat in the back. All it does is congest the boarding area, and make the flight attendant have to shuffle around awkwardly in these smaller RJs. Riding up front is a different story.

Battlinbear
03-11-2019, 07:46 PM
Damn!!! Johnny Brite Stripes definitely needs to have a sit down and he told how this works. When I was new Back in 08 and did t have a fn clue how things worked my sim partner just said “you always buy Tolberones for the crew. That’s SOP” that gem and when you upgrade your Per Diem is to only be used for drinks for you crew. Hopefully this was a one time offense. Thanks for the rides Back to Billings Eagle. Always was very enjoyable.

SEAtoSummit
03-11-2019, 07:52 PM
maybe you should check what envoy has for jumpseat for pilot cass approved airline requires. Here make it easy for you, fmp-1
sec 15-45 all the way to the bottom. It is required.

If you are talking an AAG employee traveling on AAG owned aircraft as a d2, no you do not have to check in with captain, but if you are checking in as a jumpseater you most certainly do have to check in with the captain. If you don't want to that is your choice, be aware you can be turned in to your company and have you cass restricted.

We have unlimited jumpseat privilege now, it used to be 1 seat only, it can revert to the way it was.

Cool man. Maybe I’m busy doing the walk around or knuckles-deep in the FMS, but I guess I don’t notice captains I fly with checking documents for back-end riders. Or maybe their familiarity of JS requirements is on par with mine.:D

I actually checked the FM1 after I posted - I was really just curious and you’re absolutely right. That’s all.

Flyboy68
03-11-2019, 08:04 PM
Those types of CAs are generally a**holes to fly with. 75% of the time guys/gals say the same to me, wish it wasn’t required for them to check in in the first place if they have a seat in the back. All it does is congest the boarding area, and make the flight attendant have to shuffle around awkwardly in these smaller RJs. Riding up front is a different story.You mean CA's that require some modicum of courtesy and respect when you're jumpseating on their aircraft?

That kind of CA? SMDH

dera
03-11-2019, 08:07 PM
Those types of CAs are generally a**holes to fly with. 75% of the time guys/gals say the same to me, wish it wasn’t required for them to check in in the first place if they have a seat in the back. All it does is congest the boarding area, and make the flight attendant have to shuffle around awkwardly in these smaller RJs. Riding up front is a different story.

You're getting a free ride as someone who doesn't work for the company. At least have the decency to "ask" for it.

Weekendwarrior2
03-11-2019, 08:11 PM
“Hey I’m ____, with_____, got a seat in the back, thanks for the ride.” That’s enough for me. Do I personally ask when I have a seat in the back? Yes. But when I’m the working CA and someone comes up and asks if they can have a seat vs. tells me they have a seat it makes no difference. It’s a hassle for people to come up in the first place.

dera
03-11-2019, 08:24 PM
“Hey I’m ____, with_____, got a seat in the back, thanks for the ride.” That’s enough for me. Do I personally ask when I have a seat in the back? Yes. But when I’m the working CA and someone comes up and asks if they can have a seat vs. tells me they have a seat it makes no difference. It’s a hassle for people to come up in the first place.

It's just basic courtesy and manners.
It's like when you're in Whole Foods and they have samples. Do you say "I'm taking this" or "Can I have one of these?".
When you have to come up and introduce yourself, might as well be polite. It doesn't cost anything.

Weekendwarrior2
03-11-2019, 08:33 PM
I’m not knocking anyone for being polite. I always ask, and I agree that’s the best way to go about it. I was more referring to the post above when someone said some captains would say “wanna bet?” I’m just not going to personally call someone out or be bothered if they say they have a seat vs. ask. Obviously there’s more going on than that in the OPs post, but that kid will get straightened out eventually.

Flyboy68
03-11-2019, 09:06 PM
Funny story about jumpseating back in the day. I was jumpseating in the states from Alaska back to Louisiana. I flew for a small 135 operation in AK and we actually had jumpseat privileges on the majors somehow. So I go into the cockpit to meet the CA and introduce myself and he says, "Have you ever crossed a picket line son?" Me: "No sir, this is my first real aviation job." He says, "Well, I've got a list here, and if I find your name on it, you're not riding on my airplane." So he proceeds to get out his old list of scabs and went through the last names to check for mine. lol

And that wasn't the last time it happened. Had a couple other CA's that would take my badge and look at their scab list before signing it.

pitchattitude
03-12-2019, 03:43 AM
I knew a guy that spent time in the Maricopa pen for jumpseating on Southwest with a badge he kept from Frontier. He had the 73 type but didn’t make it through the ‘Bus training. Somebody finally checked his credentials a little closer when his story didn’t add up.

chrisreedrules
03-12-2019, 05:56 AM
It's just basic courtesy and manners.
It's like when you're in Whole Foods and they have samples. Do you say "I'm taking this" or "Can I have one of these?".
When you have to come up and introduce yourself, might as well be polite. It doesn't cost anything.

I always make a point on any flight I’m on to go up front and ask the Captain for his permission to catch a ride wherever I’m going. It’s a courtesy and a tip of the hat to the Captain. I appreciate the same when I am up front.

Al Czervik
03-12-2019, 12:01 PM
I load all my crap into the cockpit without saying anything. When I’m done I say “what’s up. I’ll be on your jumpseat.” I then sit down, cut a fart and open my can of tuna.

NoValueAviator
03-12-2019, 12:02 PM
I load all my crap into the cockpit without saying anything. When I’m done I say “what’s up. I’ll be on your jumpseat.” I then sit down, cut a fart and open my can of tuna.

lmao im dyin

BigZ
03-12-2019, 12:18 PM
I load all my crap into the cockpit without saying anything. When I’m done I say “what’s up. I’ll be on your jumpseat.” I then sit down, cut a fart and open my can of tuna.

Don't forget to make sure all their briefings are top notch and cover everything ))

450knotOffice
03-12-2019, 12:44 PM
28 years and countless rides via the jumpseat privilege - some in the cabin and some in the actual jumpseat - and I've always pulled all my required docs out, had them in hand, and offered them to the captain after introducing myself and ASKING for a lift. Most captains wave off the docs, and offer a smile and a handshake, while others look through them all first, THEN offer the smile and the handshake.

Why not just do what's required? It's so easy and courteous.

And Envoy is wholly owned, so therefore IS AA?? That's rich. :rolleyes:

450knotOffice
03-12-2019, 12:55 PM
Dear OP. Your gonna need to get over yourself.

Were you the guy? ;)

TransWorld
03-12-2019, 03:08 PM
I load all my crap into the cockpit without saying anything. When I’m done I say “what’s up. I’ll be on your jumpseat.” I then sit down, cut a fart and open my can of tuna.

I always open an anchovy pizza after I sit down.

PlaneS
03-12-2019, 07:23 PM
I load all my crap into the cockpit without saying anything. When I’m done I say “what’s up. I’ll be on your jumpseat.” I then sit down, cut a fart and open my can of tuna.

:D:D Don't forget to ask for their documents and if they're familiar with the cockpit!

KodiakRS
03-13-2019, 07:14 AM
This whole thing is probably a result of having the following conversation a hundred times


Person: "You're an airline pilot? Who do you fly for"
Pilot: "I fly for envoy Airlines."
Person: "I've never heard of them."
Pilot: "We used to be called American Eagle."
Person: "Like the t-shirt company?"
Pilot: "No, an airline. Used to be called American Eagle but during the American Airlines merger with US Airways a few years ago they decided to use the American Eagle brand name with other carriers so they renamed us envoy to avoid confusion. We're a wholly owned subsidiary of American Airlines that flies smaller airplanes but our customer facing operations are designed to be consistent with American so most people think they're on American when they're really flying on us blah blah codeshare blah blah regional blah blah scope blah blah...

Person (not getting it): "So you fly for American Airlines?"
Pilot: *exasperated sigh* "Yeah sure, why not."

Flyboy68
03-13-2019, 07:31 AM
This whole thing is probably a result of having the following conversation a hundred times


Person: "You're an airline pilot? Who do you fly for"
Pilot: "I fly for envoy Airlines."
Person: "I've never heard of them."
Pilot: "We used to be called American Eagle."
Person: "Like the t-shirt company?"
Pilot: "No, an airline. Used to be called American Eagle but during the American Airlines merger with US Airways a few years ago they decided to use the American Eagle brand name with other carriers so they renamed us envoy to avoid confusion. We're a wholly owned subsidiary of American Airlines that flies smaller airplanes but our customer facing operations are designed to be consistent with American so most people think they're on American when they're really flying on us blah blah codeshare blah blah regional blah blah scope blah blah...

Person (not getting it): "So you fly for American Airlines?"
Pilot: *exasperated sigh* "Yeah sure, why not."
We understand about speaking to the general public, but it's different than speaking to another pilot. Pilots know the difference.

And literally telling the CA that you're sitting in the back is a big no-no. I hope the young man who did this reads this thread and learns from it, and doesn't have to be called in to ops and reprimanded.

Bolded part made me laugh though. Cheers.

pitchattitude
03-13-2019, 08:16 AM
This whole thing is probably a result of having the following conversation a hundred times


Person: "You're an airline pilot? Who do you fly for"
Pilot: "I fly for envoy Airlines."
Person: "I've never heard of them."
Pilot: "We used to be called American Eagle."
Person: "Like the t-shirt company?"
Pilot: "No, an airline. Used to be called American Eagle but during the American Airlines merger with US Airways a few years ago they decided to use the American Eagle brand name with other carriers so they renamed us envoy to avoid confusion. We're a wholly owned subsidiary of American Airlines that flies smaller airplanes but our customer facing operations are designed to be consistent with American so most people think they're on American when they're really flying on us blah blah codeshare blah blah regional blah blah scope blah blah...

Person (not getting it): "So you fly for American Airlines?"
Pilot: *exasperated sigh* "Yeah sure, why not."

Hilarious!

But general public and Captain you should be ASKING to ride with are totally different. Know your audience.

NoValueAviator
03-13-2019, 03:21 PM
Co or ALPA should present something on JS etiquette to the new hires. It’s not always self-explanatory, I jumpseated home from training in jeans several times on American before an AA guy gently set me straight.

MD-11Loader
03-13-2019, 05:13 PM
Co or ALPA should present something on JS etiquette to the new hires. It’s not always self-explanatory, I jumpseated home from training in jeans several times on American before an AA guy gently set me straight.

They are shown the ALPA video.

bigtime209
03-13-2019, 06:16 PM
Were you the guy? ;)

I think the guy must've been Ijustlikeflying. He's over in the AA forums asking if "we" have enough spare 737s lying around to cover the grounded MAX flying.

CrowneVic
03-14-2019, 07:55 AM
Dear OP. Your gonna need to get over yourself.

Exactly this.

If you were the CA, rather than spending the time and energy to post on another carrier’s thread because you were so offended, how about exercising some of that CA leadership with which you were entrusted and give the lad a proper explanation of the etiqutte expected of jumpseaters.

A gentle explanation of professional expectations would have resulted in some embarrassment on his part, but would have been far more efective than the big nothing you have achieved here.

He was wrong. But you were more so, because you let the opportunity to make a difference slip by.

CrowneVic
03-14-2019, 07:59 AM
Dear OP. Your gonna need to get over yourself.

Exactly this.

If you were the CA, rather than spending the time and energy to post on another carrier’s thread because you were so offended, how about exercising some of that CA leadership with which you were entrusted and give the lad a proper explanation of the etiqutte expected of jumpseaters.

A gentle explanation of professional expectations would have resulted in some embarrassment on his part, but would have been far more efective than the big nothing you have achieved here.

He was wrong. But you were more so, because you let the opportunity to make a difference slip by.

Now, the bahavior goes unchanged and will be carried into the future until someone willing to exercise some leadership steps up to the plate.

End of story.

At the risk of being flamed, I believe this event is exactly the answer about all the back and forth questions about why airlines prefer military.

Monkey skills are monkey skills. Leading men and women outside of those isolated skill sets is what has always set military folks apart, officer and enlisted alike. This is the trait that airlines seek out in their hiring of future Captains.

I am willing to go out on a limb here and venture a guess this CA was not prior military.

No, I am not saying prior mil are perfect. Many are slugs. I am speaking in generalities. If the CA in this scenario were prior mil, it is much less likely any of us would be reading these posts.

Flame away!

Captain Kirk
03-14-2019, 11:36 AM
I’m not prior military but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night 😁

TJBrass
03-14-2019, 02:05 PM
He had a seat in the back and you did a background check?

Flyboy68
03-14-2019, 05:41 PM
Exactly this.

If you were the CA, rather than spending the time and energy to post on another carrier’s thread because you were so offended, how about exercising some of that CA leadership with which you were entrusted and give the lad a proper explanation of the etiqutte expected of jumpseaters.

A gentle explanation of professional expectations would have resulted in some embarrassment on his part, but would have been far more efective than the big nothing you have achieved here.

He was wrong. But you were more so, because you let the opportunity to make a difference slip by.

Now, the bahavior goes unchanged and will be carried into the future until someone willing to exercise some leadership steps up to the plate.

End of story.

At the risk of being flamed, I believe this event is exactly the answer about all the back and forth questions about why airlines prefer military.

Monkey skills are monkey skills. Leading men and women outside of those isolated skill sets is what has always set military folks apart, officer and enlisted alike. This is the trait that airlines seek out in their hiring of future Captains.

I am willing to go out on a limb here and venture a guess this CA was not prior military.

No, I am not saying prior mil are perfect. Many are slugs. I am speaking in generalities. If the CA in this scenario were prior mil, it is much less likely any of us would be reading these posts.

Flame away!I'm not former military, but I could see this as being true. For a military officer, being "polite" to junior officers or enlisted is not really a consideration. They either show you the respect that your rank deserves, or you let them know that they are out of line. It's much different in the civilian world where when someone is being rude or showing disrespect, everyone is afraid to call them out on it. That $hit doesn't fly in the military.

T1000
03-14-2019, 06:31 PM
So last weak you were at a regional and you were inferior. This week your at mainline because of a flow, and now your totally superior to all your buddies at the regional. I think you guys are all nuts.

Weekendwarrior2
03-15-2019, 12:39 AM
Exactly this.



If you were the CA, rather than spending the time and energy to post on another carrier’s thread because you were so offended, how about exercising some of that CA leadership with which you were entrusted and give the lad a proper explanation of the etiqutte expected of jumpseaters.



A gentle explanation of professional expectations would have resulted in some embarrassment on his part, but would have been far more efective than the big nothing you have achieved here.



He was wrong. But you were more so, because you let the opportunity to make a difference slip by.



Now, the bahavior goes unchanged and will be carried into the future until someone willing to exercise some leadership steps up to the plate.



End of story.



At the risk of being flamed, I believe this event is exactly the answer about all the back and forth questions about why airlines prefer military.



Monkey skills are monkey skills. Leading men and women outside of those isolated skill sets is what has always set military folks apart, officer and enlisted alike. This is the trait that airlines seek out in their hiring of future Captains.



I am willing to go out on a limb here and venture a guess this CA was not prior military.



No, I am not saying prior mil are perfect. Many are slugs. I am speaking in generalities. If the CA in this scenario were prior mil, it is much less likely any of us would be reading these posts.



Flame away!



I’ve gotten flamed a bit for apparently not giving enough of a ******* about jumpseat etiquette... I still stand by it being an antiquated and annoying process for guys who have a seat in the back, but this is spot on. You’re the CA, it’s your call on if you want to educate the guy/gal or not. That’s what being a captain entails...making your own decisions and setting the tone. If you don’t like the guys attitude then talk to them about it. I once had five guys catching a ride in the back that just got in from Europe and they were wearing their pilot pants with a white t-shirt AND told me they had seats in the back. You want to be that CA and tell them to go change into proper business attire? Go for it. I won’t ever be that guy. Posting on a forum may reach him but most likely won’t. Most jumpseaters are respectful and dress appropriately, and when a guy tells me he has a seat in the back he normally says it in a thankful tone and is appreciative for the ride. I hope none of you guys with this authoritarian attitude never go off on some poor pilot commuting home after a long day for simply stating he has a seat rather than asking for your blessing.

MD-11Loader
03-15-2019, 03:37 AM
How come flight attendants don’t have to ask permission for a ride? I see Delta, UA, NK, B6, etc all the time as D7UJ’s, but they never come up front and hello. We make such a big deal about pilot etiquette yet they freeload all the time and we don’t think twice. Shouldn’t we be aware that there’s an additional person in the back who could assist durning an emergency?

Cyio
03-15-2019, 06:23 AM
How come flight attendants don’t have to ask permission for a ride? I see Delta, UA, NK, B6, etc all the time as D7UJ’s, but they never come up front and hello. We make such a big deal about pilot etiquette yet they freeload all the time and we don’t think twice. Shouldn’t we be aware that there’s an additional person in the back who could assist durning an emergency?

Dont use logic else risk offending the blowhards. This is an antiquated system, as if in this day and age we are going to open the door in the middle of an emergency and hail all the pilots up to the front. We may ask the FA to go through and get one, look at the credentials and see they are a JS then bring them up, but really, the flight crew doesn't need to always know who is in back.

I have, without a friggen doubt, had more MAINLINE pilots fail to act properly than any regional pilot. Some show up in street cloths, dont bother checking in at all if they got a seat etc. The LCC guys/gals are awesome, always very respectful and properly dressed. I think it goes unreported about mainline because people fear any sort of retribution, as silly as that may be. So before they get up on their high horse it would be best to look inside first.

At the end of the day, you either are a captain that just wants a quick hello and understands that people are just trying to get to work or back to their home/family with as little issue as possible, or you are the type that feels they are owed some huge debt of gratitude for letting you on "their" aircraft. I do however agree about the dress code policy if sitting up front, we dont want passengers to see pilots going up with jeans on, might make them feel we are not taking this seriously enough.

Either way, I find it easier to just say "excuse me gentlemen/ladies, just wanted to see if I can catch a ride". At that point I take the cues from them.

Weekendwarrior2
03-15-2019, 06:36 AM
I have, without a friggen doubt, had more MAINLINE pilots fail to act properly than any regional pilot. Some show up in street cloths, dont bother checking in at all if they got a seat etc..




I’ve had this happen many times as well

FlyPurdue
03-15-2019, 06:44 AM
while we are talking about jumpseating...I have the best/worst story from a few months back. This is the account I sent to ALPA after the fact because it was so terrible.

Good morning, my name is XXX, and I just had a regrettable jumpseat experience on AAXXX YYY-ZZZ on MMM DD. For the record, I was not in uniform, but was wearing dress slacks and a button down dress shirt. At the gate, I was assigned jumpseat ‘2w’ 5 minutes prior to boarding, and told by the gate agent that I should board with group 4, so that I could find a place for my suitcase.

When I am assigned the actual jumpseat on AA/EAG (or any seat when flying OAL), I always, leave my suitcase and briefcase at the door of the plane, and proceed to check in with the flight attendants and then the captain. In my hand, I always have my Crew ID, J/S boarding pass, pilot certificate and medical. If the captain grants me the privilege of jump-seating, I offer to wait on the jetbridge, until boarding is nearly complete so that they can prepare the flight deck without somebody breathing down their neck.

Flight XXX was no different, and when I arrived at the aircraft, I left my suitcase on the jetbridge, introduced myself to the flight attendant standing in front of the flight deck door (there was a second FA setting up the first class galley), and showed her my crew badge (which I was holding), and started to move toward the flight deck. At that point, the second flight attendant setting up the galley, moved to block me, and then proceeded to ask the captain if he wanted a jumpseater to come up. The captain said “no, not right now” and the flight attendant told me that I could never ‘just board the aircraft and go to the cockpit.’ As I was leaving the plane, I said that I was an Envoy pilot, and knew that I could not ride without the captains permission, and had even left my bag on the jetbridge.

When the gate agent came down to close flight (I was still standing on the jetbridge), she told me a seat had opened up in the back, and gave me a new BP, and I proceeded to board (as now I was an online d2 with a seat, not a 2w jumpseater). As I boarded, the same flight attendant whom had scolded me earlier told me to check in with the captain, and he also proceeded to explain /scold me that “you can’t just come up to the flight deck without your crew ID.” I explained to him that I had introduced myself to the FA in front of the FD door, had my ID, certificate, and medical in-hand, and had even left my bags on the jetbridge to await his permission (as nothing is guaranteed). He just reiterated that was not what he was told and to always have my crew badge, and told me there was nothing more to say as I had a seat in the back. I did not apologize, and took my seat in the back.

Fundamentally, I have my utmost respect for captains authority and the privilege of jumpseating, but felt this whole experience was unprofessional, and counter to the ALPA jumpseat guide. I never raised my voice, nor argued, and always used the pronouns sir and mam when addressing the crew. I wanted to share my side of the story should the crew decide to report this experience to their own respective jumpseat committee.

Sorry for the novel - but a good example of some people having a chip on their shoulder. Now that I am a captain...I have pilots all the time just tell me they are jumpseating (in the back), and frankly I don't care, but it does bother me that if I had the same laissez faire attitude, I would get a coach and council from the flight crew.

MySaabStory
03-15-2019, 06:46 AM
Shouldn’t we be aware that there’s an additional person in the back who could assist durning an emergency?

FYI...if I’m jumpseating on your plane, the only “assist” you’ll get is a path of knocked over passengers as I run my ass off the airplane. I signed up for a free ride...not to be your #7.

Flyboy68
03-15-2019, 06:59 AM
What is the dress code for CASS nowadays? Back when I flew 121 cargo, we were required to wear slacks, a button down dress shirt, sports coat and tie. Didn't bother me, but I assume that's no longer required.

okayestpilot
03-15-2019, 07:07 AM
What is the dress code for CASS nowadays? Back when I flew 121 cargo, we were required to wear slacks, a button down dress shirt, sports coat and tie. Didn't bother me, but I assume that's no longer required.

Business casual or in uniform. I had a mainline pilot trying to jumpseat in jeans awhile back and respectfully requested he put on slacks which he did.

Flyboy68
03-15-2019, 07:12 AM
Business casual or in uniform. I had a mainline pilot trying to jumpseat in jeans awhile back and respectfully requested he put on slacks which he did.So no more coat or tie required?

Amazes me how some people will continue to push the envelope and wear jeans or other casual clothing. If you let them get away with it, before long you'd have pilots trying to jumpseat in shorts, muscle shirts and flip flops. :(

CaptJackSparrow
03-15-2019, 07:17 AM
FYI...if I’m jumpseating on your plane, the only “assist” you’ll get is a path of knocked over passengers as I run my ass off the airplane. I signed up for a free ride...not to be your #7.

You should read up on FAR 121.533 specifically part e. And while you’re at it FAR 121.547 and 121.583. You are a crewmember if you’re jumpseating and may be required to perform duties in the event of an emergency. You will be required if the captain demands it. It’s also on the alpa jumpseat etiquette and courtesy page.

MySaabStory
03-15-2019, 08:04 AM
So no more coat or tie required?

Amazes me how some people will continue to push the envelope and wear jeans or other casual clothing. If you let them get away with it, before long you'd have pilots trying to jumpseat in shorts, muscle shirts and flip flops. :(

No one is pushing the envelope. Business casual has become the norm and neat, clean jeans are acceptable. Most jeans are not only more expensive than slacks, but look a heck of a lot better too.

MD-11Loader
03-15-2019, 09:16 AM
FYI...if I’m jumpseating on your plane, the only “assist” you’ll get is a path of knocked over passengers as I run my ass off the airplane. I signed up for a free ride...not to be your #7.

You’ll do what your obligated to do IAW the FAR’s or you won’t be welcomed in my jumpseat. I don’t have to give you a ride. If I ask you to talk on the radio so that I can work through an emergency with my f/o, you’d better clear your throat and get to gettin. There’s no time for attitude or ego during those scenarios.

CrowneVic
03-15-2019, 09:42 AM
I have, without a friggen doubt, had more MAINLINE pilots fail to act properly than any regional pilot. Some show up in street cloths, dont bother checking in at all if they got a seat etc.

This behavior should not go unchecked any more than the fellow’s that was the subject of the first post. Sometimes we all need a good reminder of how we should be conducting ourselves, and mainline or not, should get the “talk” just like anyone else.

It’s not necessary to be a tool. Just be polite and professional. Everyone is so rushed and hurried these days and we’ve lost so much civility in the way we conduct ourselves, some may not be aware of what they are doing and how they are coming off.

A quick dose of reality may be the medicine needed, and you are almost guaranteed to get a sincere apology and probably a thank you when they realize what they are doing. If the guy or gal wants to look down their nose and get all huffy, so be it. Just report it to the jumpseat committee.

I wouldn’t worry about tit-for-tat, as there are probably a whole lot more “mainline” folks needing rides to work. Besides, people who act like that really are the minority.

Antiquated system or not, it is our system and these are the expectations within it. As a group, pilots are better off being able to self-police each other, rather than having others become involved and tell us what to do.

If you are okay with letting jumpseaters with a cabin seat do their own thing, that’s personal style. But when you let them get away with the flagrant stuff, you are hurting our profession.

At the end of the day, people just want get to their destination safely and on time. However, year after year in polls, pilots are consistently ranked highly by the public in terms of trustworthiness and respect, right up there with police officers, firefighters, teachers, nurses, and the military. It’s up to us to keep it that way.

There is strength in unity, but weakness in division.

Cyio
03-15-2019, 09:45 AM
You’ll do what your obligated to do IAW the FAR’s or you won’t be welcomed in my jumpseat. I don’t have to give you a ride. If I ask you to talk on the radio so that I can work through an emergency with my f/o, you’d better clear your throat and get to gettin. There’s no time for attitude or ego during those scenarios.

I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to that person and assume they meant sitting in the back on a JS ticket. Even still, should that be the case you should help if the captain requests it.

Flyboy68
03-15-2019, 09:54 AM
No one is pushing the envelope. Business casual has become the norm and neat, clean jeans are acceptable. Most jeans are not only more expensive than slacks, but look a heck of a lot better too.I thought someone said that jeans weren't acceptable attire?

What I was saying was, if slacks and a dress shirt are the requirements, and CA's start letting people jumpseat in jeans and a casual shirt or t-shirt, before long you'll have guys wearing shorts and tank tops. That's the nature of people, to push the envelope. Give them an inch, they'll take a mile.

CrowneVic
03-15-2019, 10:04 AM
I thought someone said that jeans weren't acceptable attire.

In training, at the schoolhouse, jeans are OK. NOT for the jumpseat. Ever.

Jeans are not considered business casual. If there is any chance you will need the jumpseat, don’t wear jeans to the airport.

Khakis, chinos are about as informal as you want to get with regard to pants.

pitchattitude
03-15-2019, 11:10 AM
Something that has not been really touched on during this discourse is that if you are on an AA flight, no matter who is flying it, if you are a D1 or D2, you are just like any other employee using their travel privileges. Other airline, or other airline flying on Envoy/AA is using reciprocal JS agreement. These really are two different things. We may end up on the JS and use that ability because it is full in the back. If so, then regular JS etiquette applies. Is it courteous to check in if you are a D1/D2 and have a seat in the back, sure, but not required.

The OP was about an Envoy on Spirit, but there are lines that have been blurred in this discussion.

All that being said, I still agree that you must be properly dressed, etc. either way and when required, check in and ask for the ride.

Flyboy68
03-15-2019, 11:20 AM
In training, at the schoolhouse, jeans are OK. NOT for the jumpseat. Ever.

Jeans are not considered business casual. If there is any chance you will need the jumpseat, don’t wear jeans to the airport.

Khakis, chinos are about as informal as you want to get with regard to pants.That's what I thought, but MySaabStory was saying different.

Varsity
03-15-2019, 11:53 AM
Something that has not been really touched on during this discourse is that if you are on an AA flight, no matter who is flying it, if you are a D1 or D2, you are just like any other employee using their travel privileges. Other airline, or other airline flying on Envoy/AA is using reciprocal JS agreement. These really are two different things. We may end up on the JS and use that ability because it is full in the back. If so, then regular JS etiquette applies. Is it courteous to check in if you are a D1/D2 and have a seat in the back, sure, but not required.

The OP was about an Envoy on Spirit, but there are lines that have been blurred in this discussion.

All that being said, I still agree that you must be properly dressed, etc. either way and when required, check in and ask for the ride.

If you're a D1/D2 riding in the back, I really don't want you checking in at the cockpit. The last thing I need is 20 rampers/Fa/gate agents saying thanks for the ride.

MD-11Loader
03-15-2019, 02:31 PM
I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to that person and assume they meant sitting in the back on a JS ticket. Even still, should that be the case you should help if the captain requests it.

I agree with your point. I was just referencing someone on the FDJ.

inevitableneb
03-15-2019, 04:10 PM
Business casual or in uniform. I had a mainline pilot trying to jumpseat in jeans awhile back and respectfully requested he put on slacks which he did.

Did that make you feel like a big man?

CrowneVic
03-15-2019, 05:42 PM
Did that make you feel like a big man?

Probably not, but I’m sure it made him feel like he was doing his part to uphold the standards of the profession.

450knotOffice
03-16-2019, 10:33 AM
Did that make you feel like a big man?

See, there's always somebody who has to take a childish stab at someone else who is simply following the rules laid out by the company that pays him.

As CrowneVic mentioned, that guy did the right thing.

Don't wear jeans if you think there's the remotest possibility you may need to actually sit in a jumpseat. It's not Rocket Science. :rolleyes:

(the more this inevitableneb posts in this thread, the more I think he may have been the person the OP was talking about)

ag386
03-16-2019, 10:36 AM
Did that make you feel like a big man?

Guess we have our answer. You are the immature kid who showed up trying to jumpseat on the LCC mentioned at the start of this thread and said you were with American.

jake cutter
03-16-2019, 10:58 AM
Other pilots: Envoy
General public: American Eagle or just American if met with a blank stare.

inevitableneb
03-16-2019, 11:38 AM
See, there's always somebody who has to take a childish stab at someone else who is simply following the rules laid out by the company that pays him.

As CrowneVic mentioned, that guy did the right thing.

Don't wear jeans if you think there's the remotest possibility you may need to actually sit in a jumpseat. It's not Rocket Science. :rolleyes:

(the more this inevitableneb posts in this thread, the more I think he may have been the person the OP was talking about)

This whole thing just seems a bit overblown to me. Actually making the guy change pants seems like a power Trip to me, he could have just said 'hey, for next time, jeans aren't really kosher'.

But, your right, those are the rules. If offense was taken at this or any other snarky comments I've made, I apologise.

I just wish we could all be decent to each other instead of constantly sizing each other up and deciding we're better than them because our seniority is higher or our airline is better, or our airframe is bigger.

I'm not the person this post is talking about, but I have made proceedural errors while jumpseating, and I was usually met with extreme curtesy and respect by the FD crew, which I deeply appreciated. I was not blasted on a forum for pages and pages. This isn't something that belongs here at all, it should be limited to private conversations or in the most extreme circumstances the Jumpseat committee.

MD-11Loader
03-16-2019, 03:05 PM
I’ve seen a captain make someone change twice. Once was a Southwest pilot who wanted to ride on the flight deck in jeans and Han Solo boots. The other was a mainline captain who was going on vacation. Both situations were handled professionally and all involved understood.

CrowneVic
03-16-2019, 03:22 PM
Anyone who blasted the original subject of this thread blasted the wrong guy for reasons I outlined previously.

We have professional standards, just like physicians, lawyers, police, etc. It is up to us to uphold them and maintain our profession at a high level. That is why the guy wearing jeans was asked to change his pants.

He knew the rules, and decided he couldn't be bothered to throw on a pair of Dockers before showing up. He had something to change into in his bag, for crying out loud!

Do you think he would have done that if he were flying on his own metal or another mainline carrier? No way in H.

I'm not against what you said about just giving the guy the verbal, "Next time don't wear jeans", and letting him ride if that's your style. But do you think a lot of mainline guys, including this very Captain, wouldn't have made you change under similar circumstances? They don't want unprofessional looking turds on their flightdecks, either.

Probably more than most professions, except maybe cops, we are watched and scrutinized VERY carefully by EVERYONE. You can sense people scrutinizing and sizing you up as you walk to the gate, through the terminal, enter/exit the cockpit, and so forth.

They are all asking themselves if you are skilled and trustworthy enough to take them and their families flying. Your appearance, and the appearance of anyone on the flightdeck, has an impact on their conclusions.

We do need to take of each other. I can't remember where I heard or read the great story of some guy who had non-rev'd somewhere, but had all of his luggage lost while on vacation. He was desperate to get back to work and only the jumpseat was available. He only had a t-shirt, swim trunks, flip-flops, and about three or four days worth of stubble. He pleaded his case to the Captain and apologized profusely. Of course, he just got a big laugh and a hearty welcome aboard.

That kind of stuff is one-off. But day-to-day standards need to be maintained, or we will just be ruining things for ourselves. Our livelihoods depend on it.

Flyboy68
03-16-2019, 07:59 PM
This whole thing just seems a bit overblown to me. Actually making the guy change pants seems like a power Trip to me, he could have just said 'hey, for next time, jeans aren't really kosher'.

But, your right, those are the rules. If offense was taken at this or any other snarky comments I've made, I apologise.

I just wish we could all be decent to each other instead of constantly sizing each other up and deciding we're better than them because our seniority is higher or our airline is better, or our airframe is bigger.

I'm not the person this post is talking about, but I have made proceedural errors while jumpseating, and I was usually met with extreme curtesy and respect by the FD crew, which I deeply appreciated. I was not blasted on a forum for pages and pages. This isn't something that belongs here at all, it should be limited to private conversations or in the most extreme circumstances the Jumpseat committee.I disagree.

I think it belongs here so everyone can learn from the mistakes of others, especially the young guys just getting into the industry. I promise you that if a low time guy that's looking to get on with a regional soon reads this thread, they'll learn some etiquette about jumpseating that they probably wouldn't learn in ground school.

Weekendwarrior2
03-16-2019, 11:25 PM
You guys sound like nightmares...a nice pair of jeans is way better than a rough pair of khakis. I’ll allow any of you in my jumpseat because you sound like you guys dress for prom but god damn I don’t look forward to the conversation.

NoValueAviator
03-17-2019, 03:25 AM
I am honestly kind of surprised anyone cares what you wear in the back if it’s neat and not eccentric. We are carrying basic economies wearing tattered wifebeaters soaked through with a mixture of sweat and McDonald’s honey BBQ. I see no reason to deny a cabin seat in coach to a guy in jeans and a button-down.

The cockpit is a different story for all the reasons mentioned previously. The pax are expecting to see a certain (very high) level of professionalism coming from the people in there.

MD-11Loader
03-17-2019, 04:15 AM
You guys sound like nightmares...a nice pair of jeans is way better than a rough pair of khakis. I’ll allow any of you in my jumpseat because you sound like you guys dress for prom but god damn I don’t look forward to the conversation.

And then you’re violating FM-1 and have to call the union when you get dragged to the CPO for it. Jeans in the back is one thing, up front is another.

Toolbox9909
03-17-2019, 05:23 AM
Can someone change the thread title to "Jumpseat complaints"

I keep thinking it's a discussion about flow to AA or something more interesting about my career.

Click bait!

Cyio
03-17-2019, 06:17 AM
I am honestly kind of surprised anyone cares what you wear in the back if it’s neat and not eccentric. We are carrying basic economies wearing tattered wifebeaters soaked through with a mixture of sweat and McDonald’s honey BBQ. I see no reason to deny a cabin seat in coach to a guy in jeans and a button-down.

The cockpit is a different story for all the reasons mentioned previously. The pax are expecting to see a certain (very high) level of professionalism coming from the people in there.

I don't recall anyone saying you couldn't ware what you want in the back, but dont expect the JS if you do. In fact, AA changed the rules recently to allow for pretty much anything a passenger would ware, since they didn't want gate agents having to be the ones determining your dress code conformity.

CrowneVic
03-17-2019, 09:43 AM
I am honestly kind of surprised anyone cares what you wear in the back if it’s neat and not eccentric. We are carrying basic economies wearing tattered wifebeaters soaked through with a mixture of sweat and McDonald’s honey BBQ. I see no reason to deny a cabin seat in coach to a guy in jeans and a button-down.

The cockpit is a different story for all the reasons mentioned previously. The pax are expecting to see a certain (very high) level of professionalism coming from the people in there.

Did you even read through the thread? Not one person said anything about what is worn in the cabin.

crj700
03-17-2019, 10:44 AM
I don't recall anyone saying you couldn't ware what you want in the back, but dont expect the JS if you do. In fact, AA changed the rules recently to allow for pretty much anything a passenger would ware, since they didn't want gate agents having to be the ones determining your dress code conformity.

Come on man! Once is a mistake, twice is intentional.


Ware - Article offered for sale

Wear - Have on one's body or a part of one's body as clothing.



People do judge you be the words you use.

pitchattitude
03-17-2019, 10:55 AM
This thing keeps going, just like when someone does a “reply all” telling people not to reply all.

BigZ
03-17-2019, 11:12 AM
This thing keeps going, just like when someone does a “reply all” telling people not to reply all.

Except when the reply has "Amish porn websites" in there.
Because that was legendary.

NoValueAviator
03-17-2019, 12:39 PM
Did you even read through the thread? Not one person said anything about what is worn in the cabin.

So you'd greenlight a Republic guy for a seat in the back on jumpseat privileges when he checks in in jeans?

Most CA's wouldn't and ALPA says business casual in the cabin when on JS privileges.

pitchattitude
03-17-2019, 01:03 PM
So you'd greenlight a Republic guy for a seat in the back on jumpseat privileges when he checks in in jeans?

Most CA's wouldn't and ALPA says business casual in the cabin when on JS privileges.
People in the back on D6 jumpseat status are not the same as D1/2/3 which is what is being referred to for the dress code.

If you are D6 you are “jumpseating”, no matter where you sit. D1/2 in the BACK are not.

NoValueAviator
03-17-2019, 01:06 PM
You guys actually think I D2 in slacks LOL im done

crj700
03-17-2019, 01:11 PM
You guys actually think I D2 in slacks LOL im done

No issue D2ing in jeans. You just give up the option of riding the jumpseat.

pitchattitude
03-17-2019, 01:26 PM
You guys actually think I D2 in slacks LOL im done
And no one said it’s ok for a Republic or any other D6 to wear jeans.

Weekendwarrior2
03-17-2019, 09:27 PM
And then you’re violating FM-1 and have to call the union when you get dragged to the CPO for it. Jeans in the back is one thing, up front is another.



Guy was going to his daughters graduation. Why didn’t he have khakis for that? No idea. It was a nice pair of jeans, he apologized for it, and I wasn’t going to make him miss something like that. Should he have dressed more appropriately? Absolutely. What would you have done in that situation?

Jamesthunder
03-17-2019, 09:59 PM
As long as you're not in flip flops and a tank top, you're welcome to my jumpseat as long as you're not an *******. Just be friendly and if you make a mistake, apologize and correct it.

Cyio
03-18-2019, 04:00 AM
Guy was going to his daughters graduation. Why didn’t he have khakis for that? No idea. It was a nice pair of jeans, he apologized for it, and I wasn’t going to make him miss something like that. Should he have dressed more appropriately? Absolutely. What would you have done in that situation?

Drop kick them out of the flight deck and publicly shame them in front of the passengers all while contacting their respective CPO during my scathing email to their jump seat committee. Seems pretty obvious really.

MD-11Loader
03-18-2019, 09:29 AM
Guy was going to his daughters graduation. Why didn’t he have khakis for that? No idea. It was a nice pair of jeans, he apologized for it, and I wasn’t going to make him miss something like that. Should he have dressed more appropriately? Absolutely. What would you have done in that situation?

So he was going to a semi-formal event in jeans? Was it held at Daytona Motor Speedway? I’m sorry, but I would have made him change. With my luck someone from the CPO would have been waiting to do a random on the jetway and I would have gotten in trouble for it. Jumpseating isn’t new. It’s not like the standards were just written.

KodiakRS
03-18-2019, 11:07 AM
Because this conversation isn't silly enough already: Kenmore air, a seaplane company we have a reciprocal jump seat agreement with, allows their pilots to wear shorts as part of their uniform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EcYt7fdyGY

Would you kick a Kenmore air pilot out of the jump seat for wearing shorts even though they're in uniform?

MD-11Loader
03-18-2019, 11:19 AM
Because this conversation isn't silly enough already: Kenmore air, a seaplane company we have a reciprocal jump seat agreement with, allows their pilots to wear shorts as part of their uniform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EcYt7fdyGY

Would you kick a Kenmore air pilot out of the jump seat for wearing shorts even though they're in uniform?

Yup. They don’t meet our dress code. This isn’t hard. It’s in FM-1 which is an approved manual therefore is is doctrine.

buddies8
03-18-2019, 11:26 AM
Please, your asking them to follow the fmp-1, you will have to post it on facebook for them to read it, it's the only way.

Just show up and when your denied and written up, go do the dance in the cpo office when they inform you your travel privledges are suspended. That too is in the part 1.

Lakota
03-20-2019, 10:11 PM
Because this conversation isn't silly enough already: Kenmore air, a seaplane company we have a reciprocal jump seat agreement with, allows their pilots to wear shorts as part of their uniform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EcYt7fdyGY

Would you kick a Kenmore air pilot out of the jump seat for wearing shorts even though they're in uniform?

“... or approved pilot uniform”. Good to go per FM-1.