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View Full Version : The BAD about TSA?


Lifesabeech92
03-13-2019, 09:54 PM
So I have an offer to join TSA. I don't mind junior manning as I like to make extra money when possible. What's the bad about TSA besides junior manning? Reserve is short, upgrades are short, bonuses are good, pay is on pair to others.


Excargodog
03-14-2019, 08:01 AM
Pay is actually LAGGING others but the bonus offsets that for a few years, so if your intention is to get in, fly your butt off, and move on in time to take advantage of the peak legacy retirement wave, it’s not an unreasonable choice.

If your intention was to have a career flying there, not so much.

Celeste
03-15-2019, 09:17 AM
Welp we have FOs driving new corvettes and teslas to the employee lot haha


bnkangle
03-15-2019, 12:22 PM
So I have an offer to join TSA. I don't mind junior manning as I like to make extra money when possible.

:eek: seriously, wtf?

FlyingKat
03-15-2019, 08:32 PM
So I have an offer to join TSA. I don't mind junior manning as I like to make extra money when possible. What's the bad about TSA besides junior manning? Reserve is short, upgrades are short, bonuses are good, pay is on pair to others.

Ohhh that will last about a month :D

C37AFE
03-16-2019, 04:41 AM
Ohhh that will last about a month :D

Yeah going six days straight wears on you and your family if you have one

NeverHome
03-16-2019, 08:17 AM
Yeah going six days straight wears on you and your family if you have one

You sir nailed it! To the OP, really keep in mind the family and other commitments. You might be having the time of your life, but family may grow restless. They might be resentful of your being gone too much. And of the constant change in plans.

Keep this firmly planted in your decision making. Trust me the consequences can threaten everything for you

C37AFE
03-16-2019, 08:54 AM
You sir nailed it! To the OP, really keep in mind the family and other commitments. You might be having the time of your life, but family may grow restless. They might be resentful of your being gone too much. And of the constant change in plans.

Keep this firmly planted in your decision making. Trust me the consequences can threaten everything for you

^^^^this. The toll on the family is big. When I leave my kids say “oh daddy is going to do his stupid pilot job”. They aren’t excited when I come home anymore. Wife isn’t feeling much different. Hoping it will get better, but know it won’t. Would think this is across all regionals in general. Don’t want a 9-5 job though. Something will give eventually....

Lifesabeech92
03-16-2019, 09:53 AM
Yeah going six days straight wears on you and your family if you have one

I'm way too young to even think about a family.
Also according to the recruiter their contract doesn't allow more than 3 nights/4 days gone at work even with junior manning.

Coneydog
03-16-2019, 01:20 PM
Bahahahaha

cursesRedBaron
03-16-2019, 01:37 PM
Also according to the recruiter their contract doesn't allow more than 3 nights/4 days gone at work even with junior manning.

I'm dying over here....
That IS funny.
You DO realize that the recruiter gets a big bonus for getting you in the door, right?!? ;)

100LL
03-16-2019, 01:42 PM
^^^^this. The toll on the family is big. When I leave my kids say “oh daddy is going to do his stupid pilot job”. They aren’t excited when I come home anymore. Wife isn’t feeling much different. Hoping it will get better, but know it won’t. Would think this is across all regionals in general. Don’t want a 9-5 job though. Something will give eventually....

Is airline life not that great anymore or not what you expected? Are you tired of whining passengers? Tired of thinking if your next paycheck is going to cover your rent or mortgage. Thinking about being home every holiday and day or night and not gone 5,6,7,8 days in a row. Then 135 freight is for you. Contact your local freight company today!

Excargodog
03-16-2019, 03:00 PM
I'm way too young to even think about a family.
Also according to the recruiter their contract doesn't allow more than 3 nights/4 days gone at work even with junior manning.

According to the recruiter........

Sure tell you’ve never served in the military.

Of ANY country.

:rolleyes:

FlyingKat
03-16-2019, 08:01 PM
Is airline life not that great anymore or not what you expected? Are you tired of whining passengers? Tired of thinking if your next paycheck is going to cover your rent or mortgage. Thinking about being home every holiday and day or night and not gone 5,6,7,8 days in a row. Then 135 freight is for you. Contact your local freight company today!

What is going on at TSA right now goes beyond the pale of normal flying. April vacations cancelled one day before bids are due, Junior manning people well below min days off, having to fight the company to get paid correctly, the pilots are being run ragged and there is no end in sight. The company is making vague promises about getting staffing fixed by summer, but parking the AA birds in December was supposed to fix that and we were Junior manning like crazy in February, which is the slowest month of the year.

Morale is pretty bad right now, and if things don't improve soon the steady stream of guys making lateral moves is going to become a flood.

FlyingKat
03-16-2019, 08:04 PM
Yeah going six days straight wears on you and your family if you have one

Yep and going six on, one off, and six more on is even worse :mad:

FlyingKat
03-16-2019, 08:21 PM
I'm way too young to even think about a family.
Also according to the recruiter their contract doesn't allow more than 3 nights/4 days gone at work even with junior manning.

Well here is how that can work. Fly a four day, get Junior manned for a two day with ten hours of rest in base. There you just worked six days in a row. If you live in base you get home long enough to swap out your skivvies, give the wife a quick thrill, the kids and/or the dog a pat on the head, and maybe get six hours of sleep before heading back to work. If you are a commuter, then its the commuter hotel, call the wife and explain how you won't be home to fix the toilet for two more days, listen to her complain about your ridiculous job and why TSA can't get its crap together, and off to bed.

Or, better yet you work a four day with a late release and supposed to have your six days off, they give you a day off, junior you for a four day with an early show, and give you another day off before starting your next trip. If you live in base OK, if you commute, you probably won't get home for two weeks.

This isn't an exaggeration. This kind of crap is going on now and the company is pushing junior manning to the limit.

I'm not saying don't come here. The pilot group is great and the CPs are good guys. But you will work your arse off. If you are single and don't have nor want a life, its liveable. But if you have a wife and kids it makes it very, very hard particularly if you commute.

They claim it will be fixed by summer, but I will believe it when I see it.

C37AFE
03-17-2019, 06:54 AM
I'm way too young to even think about a family.
Also according to the recruiter their contract doesn't allow more than 3 nights/4 days gone at work even with junior manning.

Yep. Come home for 11-12 hours enough to sleep in your bed then back out 2 days

C37AFE
03-17-2019, 06:56 AM
According to the recruiter........

Sure tell you’ve never served in the military.

Of ANY country.

:rolleyes:

Yeah still waiting on that free health care for life

NeverHome
03-17-2019, 08:46 PM
What is going on at TSA right now goes beyond the pale of normal flying. April vacations cancelled one day before bids are due, Junior manning people well below min days off, having to fight the company to get paid correctly, the pilots are being run ragged and there is no end in sight. The company is making vague promises about getting staffing fixed by summer, but parking the AA birds in December was supposed to fix that and we were Junior manning like crazy in February, which is the slowest month of the year.

Morale is pretty bad right now, and if things don't improve soon the steady stream of guys making lateral moves is going to become a flood.

The reason the loss of AA didn’t help was FO committed us to 7 additional airframes at that time. Guy was an idiot

FlyingKat
03-19-2019, 07:56 AM
The reason the loss of AA didn’t help was FO committed us to 7 additional airframes at that time. Guy was an idiot

No argument about FO. The reason is immaterial. Its one thing after another around here and since KS left this place is falling apart. I don't expect any of this to get better unless the place gets bought and a new management team comes in. Unfortunately the trend lately is to push the company back to the way it was 10 years ago which is not good.

ESQ702
04-07-2019, 12:24 AM
Yep and going six on, one off, and six more on is even worse :mad:

Is that something that happened once or has happened multiple times? Even once is terrible but much better than it happening over and over.

Celeste
04-07-2019, 11:50 AM
No argument about FO. The reason is immaterial. Its one thing after another around here and since KS left this place is falling apart. I don't expect any of this to get better unless the place gets bought and a new management team comes in. Unfortunately the trend lately is to push the company back to the way it was 10 years ago which is not good.

It will be telling to see who they replace LS with. If the company wants this place to be around for the long run, they will try to find someone more like KS. If they promote one of the old guard into position, they might as well be throwing gas on this dumpster fire.

FlyingKat
04-07-2019, 07:20 PM
It will be telling to see who they replace LS with. If the company wants this place to be around for the long run, they will try to find someone more like KS. If they promote one of the old guard into position, they might as well be throwing gas on this dumpster fire.

Yep...rumor floating around they may have to stop upgrades because there are not enough FOs. If that happens this place will implode as FOs bail for street captain jobs and lifers bail because they are staying here for QOL, and when that goes away due to Junior Manning they will bail as well.

Hopefully that is not true. But it wouldn't surprise me given our staffing on the FO side....

FlyingKat
04-07-2019, 07:21 PM
Is that something that happened once or has happened multiple times? Even once is terrible but much better than it happening over and over.

Multiple times. If you want to work your arse off and make some $$$. TSA is the place. If you have a wife, kids, and a life not so much...

ESQ702
04-07-2019, 07:44 PM
Multiple times. If you want to work your arse off and make some $$$. TSA is the place. If you have a wife, kids, and a life not so much...

Jeez. Not good. I have a wife and kids, but I’d need the $$$ too because of them. What kind of block time and actual flying time are guys getting these days?

Celeste
04-07-2019, 09:05 PM
Yep...rumor floating around they may have to stop upgrades because there are not enough FOs. If that happens this place will implode as FOs bail for street captain jobs and lifers bail because they are staying here for QOL, and when that goes away due to Junior Manning they will bail as well.

Hopefully that is not true. But it wouldn't surprise me given our staffing on the FO side....

This place is never staffed in both seats it seems. For the better part of the last year it's been shortest on the captain side, before that it was FOs. There's barely anyone with a bid in for upgrade, they could stand to skip a class or two, but then panic will set in amongst the FOs who have been waiting to put in a bid for schedule, bonus payout, flavor of the month reason and they'll all start jumping ship. :rolleyes: It's a situation the company definitely needs to not mismanage and screw up.

It would be smarter to up F9 flow to 3-4 per month and running an upgrade class of 8-10 every two months to keep the music from stopping. However, That requires thinking into the future...

FlyingKat
04-09-2019, 12:15 AM
It would be smarter to up F9 flow to 3-4 per month and running an upgrade class of 8-10 every two months to keep the music from stopping. However, That requires thinking into the future...

You're funny.... :p:p:p

FlyingKat
04-09-2019, 12:16 AM
Jeez. Not good. I have a wife and kids, but I’d need the $$$ too because of them. What kind of block time and actual flying time are guys getting these days?

Its all about credit, not block. I had 155 hours of credit last month.

Aussiepilot
04-09-2019, 05:53 AM
Its all about credit, not block. I had 155 hours of credit last month.

Do you mind explaining how you accumulate credit? I thought it was off of block time? 155 hours is a definite money maker.

FlyingKat
04-09-2019, 11:34 AM
Do you mind explaining how you accumulate credit? I thought it was off of block time? 155 hours is a definite money maker.

Credit is what you are paid. Block is what you fly. Ways you get credit without counting towards block are minimum days, deadheads, cancellation pay, extra pay for pickups and junior mans for example.

ESQ702
04-10-2019, 03:51 PM
Its all about credit, not block. I had 155 hours of credit last month.

That's awesome - good for you! At a regional, both credit and block matter, right? Credit for your paycheck and block to work towards a major/LCC sooner than later.

How many days were you away from home last month to get the 155 hours of credit time?

FlyingKat
04-11-2019, 06:37 PM
That's awesome - good for you! At a regional, both credit and block matter, right? Credit for your paycheck and block to work towards a major/LCC sooner than later.

How many days were you away from home last month to get the 155 hours of credit time?

Ended up with 9 days off. I really don't care about block. I'm more interested in maximizing credit for minimal block. You will get all the block you need.

Erj135dude
04-27-2019, 11:55 AM
So what's new at TSA?. Any improvements on staffing? Junior manning still a thing?

C37AFE
04-27-2019, 01:00 PM
So what's new at TSA?. Any improvements on staffing? Junior manning still a thing?

No and yes

FlyingKat
04-28-2019, 12:14 PM
No and yes

Don't worry. LS says all will be well after June :D

flynd94
04-28-2019, 12:39 PM
Don't worry. LS says all will be well after June :D

What happens after June? Besides July....🤣

NeverHome
04-29-2019, 02:32 AM
What happens after June? Besides July....🤣

I think that’s when LS starts at F9 pulling on the inside :D

PreciousCargo
05-08-2019, 11:49 AM
Is it really this bad guys? I just took a job offer with them. Should I have taken GoJet instead now? I turned them down weeks ago

bzubrod
05-08-2019, 12:49 PM
Is it really this bad guys? I just took a job offer with them. Should I have taken GoJet instead now? I turned them down weeks ago

I'll second that question. I can't seem to find a good straight answer on any of these forums. I get that there are bad things about every company and everyone likes to sport *****, but I'm looking for a legit assessment of TSA as a company. I took an offer from them, with training dates next month because of the immediate training dates, easy commute to ORD or DEN, and the little to no reserve time (I'm told). However, I still have multiple interviews scheduled for the rest of the month to keep my options open. Long story longer, anyone flying for TSA, how is it as a company? Would you recommend them as a good stepping stone into the 121 world, or is the *****ing legit, and all you guys complaining fully regret going to TSA? Again, I already get that every regional isn't a major and the pay/junior manning thing sucks. I'm not against the junior manning thing seeing as I'm taking a big pay cut to go to a regional to get my ATP and 121 time, so I'll take any flying I can get to minimize the pain. I'm a mil guy, just looking for the ATP and 121 time so a major will call, not looking to be a regional lifer, for what it's worth. Thanks dudes.

C37AFE
05-08-2019, 02:02 PM
I'll second that question. I can't seem to find a good straight answer on any of these forums. I get that there are bad things about every company and everyone likes to sport *****, but I'm looking for a legit assessment of TSA as a company. I took an offer from them, with training dates next month because of the immediate training dates, easy commute to ORD or DEN, and the little to no reserve time (I'm told). However, I still have multiple interviews scheduled for the rest of the month to keep my options open. Long story longer, anyone flying for TSA, how is it as a company? Would you recommend them as a good stepping stone into the 121 world, or is the *****ing legit, and all you guys complaining fully regret going to TSA? Again, I already get that every regional isn't a major and the pay/junior manning thing sucks. I'm not against the junior manning thing seeing as I'm taking a big pay cut to go to a regional to get my ATP and 121 time, so I'll take any flying I can get to minimize the pain. I'm a mil guy, just looking for the ATP and 121 time so a major will call, not looking to be a regional lifer, for what it's worth. Thanks dudes.

Besides the uncertain future of the company it’s fine Most mil fixed wing guys are out in 6 months to a major

PreciousCargo
05-08-2019, 06:16 PM
Also can someone please explain what exactly junior manning actually is. I got a feeling I'm not the only noob that doesnt know better.

FlyingKat
05-08-2019, 08:41 PM
Is it really this bad guys? I just took a job offer with them. Should I have taken GoJet instead now? I turned them down weeks ago

No you need to stay with TSA. Better contract and work environment.

FlyingKat
05-08-2019, 08:54 PM
Also can someone please explain what exactly junior manning actually is. I got a feeling I'm not the only noob that doesnt know better.

If the company cannot fill open time with reserves and volunteers, they can force you to work overtime based on certain rules and limitations.

PreciousCargo
05-09-2019, 04:36 AM
Thanks for your help and less pessimistic feedback. The flow through to Frontier is what attracted me to TSA. From what I have read I this thread it looks like they are holding people back. Are people stepping off to bigger and better things after doing some time with this company. I'm a rotor transition guy so im pretty much locked in for 2 years anyway but wanted to know after flying a lot (because it sounds like I will be) what others have seen their peers do as far as going to other places.

Excargodog
05-09-2019, 06:56 AM
Thanks for your help and less pessimistic feedback. The flow through to Frontier is what attracted me to TSA. From what I have read I this thread it looks like they are holding people back. Are people stepping off to bigger and better things after doing some time with this company. I'm a rotor transition guy so im pretty much locked in for 2 years anyway but wanted to know after flying a lot (because it sounds like I will be) what others have seen their peers do as far as going to other places.

You are getting in to the game at a time when record numbers of pilots at the legacies are coming up on their mandatory retirement dates, when two ULCCs have recently had to give pay increases in excess of 45% to keep their entry classes filled, when the military has record shortages of pilots already with little if any means of effectively expanding their pilot training numbers, and two highly experienced airline execs are about to start new airlines.

Now none of that provides GUARANTEES. The airline history landscape is littered with wreckage - PanAm, TWA, Braniff, to name only a few. But if airline flying is what you want to do with your life, the current environment is about as good as it’s going to get. And TSA alum will get their fair share of that future.

PreciousCargo
05-09-2019, 08:31 AM
You are getting in to the game at a time when record numbers of pilots at the legacies are coming up on their mandatory retirement dates, when two ULCCs have recently had to give pay increases in excess of 45% to keep their entry classes filled, when the military has record shortages of pilots already with little if any means of effectively expanding their pilot training numbers, and two highly experienced airline execs are about to start new airlines.

Now none of that provides GUARANTEES. The airline history landscape is littered with wreckage - PanAm, TWA, Braniff, to name only a few. But if airline flying is what you want to do with your life, the current environment is about as good as it’s going to get. And TSA alum will get their fair share of that future.

Well I'll take that as something positive. Anyone see people leave here to fly freight such as FedEx or UPS? My main goal is to fly cargo at some point.

ninerdriver
05-09-2019, 10:32 AM
Thanks for your help and less pessimistic feedback. The flow through to Frontier is what attracted me to TSA. From what I have read I this thread it looks like they are holding people back. Are people stepping off to bigger and better things after doing some time with this company. I'm a rotor transition guy so im pretty much locked in for 2 years anyway but wanted to know after flying a lot (because it sounds like I will be) what others have seen their peers do as far as going to other places.

If Frontier is what you want, then TSA, GoJet, and Compass are the three places not to go.

Excargodog
05-09-2019, 11:26 AM
Well I'll take that as something positive. Anyone see people leave here to fly freight such as FedEx or UPS? My main goal is to fly cargo at some point.

H€||, some of the cargo airlines will take you with a straight ATP and no turbine time. Wouldn't necessarily recommend them though. A 767 or 747 type rating doesn’t do you much good when you are only making first year regional FO pay scale and not busting a 64 hour minimum while logging 30 hours of SIC and looking at a 12 year upgrade.

Get a regional to fund your RTP costs, fly your butt off, get your 1000 TPIC and move on. You’ve got a couple years before you will have that done and everything will have changed by then anyway.

That may sounds simplistic (and maybe it is) but it’s also the truth.

Loitering anywhere will cost you $20,000 a month that you WON’T make the last year before you retire, whenever you eventually do retire.

FlyingKat
05-09-2019, 01:05 PM
Thanks for your help and less pessimistic feedback. The flow through to Frontier is what attracted me to TSA. From what I have read I this thread it looks like they are holding people back. Are people stepping off to bigger and better things after doing some time with this company. I'm a rotor transition guy so im pretty much locked in for 2 years anyway but wanted to know after flying a lot (because it sounds like I will be) what others have seen their peers do as far as going to other places.

I'd be careful about that flow. They will only flow two a month for the forseeable future so it will take a while to get to the people getting hired now. Frontier has suspended classes, probably just for summer. If I were a new hire I wouldn't count of getting out of here on that flow for 5 or 6 years.

Excargodog
05-09-2019, 01:32 PM
I'd be careful about that flow. They will only flow two a month for the forseeable future so it will take a while to get to the people getting hired now. Frontier has suspended classes, probably just for summer. If I were a new hire I wouldn't count of getting out of here on that flow for 5 or 6 years.

The REAL use of a flow for junior people is NOT to someday take it yourself. It’s a path out for the senior folks who have no other, the guys with issues that would otherwise keep them from moving on prior to retirement. The guys that if they didn’t have this mechanism, would choke up the pilot group seniority list practically forever.

With legacy retirements hitting record levels in a few years, freeing up those EXTRA 24 captain slots a year so newbie captains can start getting their TPIC is the real benefit of the flow, at least for the overwhelming majority who will leave before the flow anyhow.

PreciousCargo
05-09-2019, 06:05 PM
H€||, some of the cargo airlines will take you with a straight ATP and no turbine time. Wouldn't necessarily recommend them though. A 767 or 747 type rating doesn’t do you much good when you are only making first year regional FO pay scale and not busting a 64 hour minimum while logging 30 hours of SIC and looking at a 12 year upgrade.

Get a regional to fund your RTP costs, fly your butt off, get your 1000 TPIC and move on. You’ve got a couple years before you will have that done and everything will have changed by then anyway.

That may sounds simplistic (and maybe it is) but it’s also the truth.

Loitering anywhere will cost you $20,000 a month that you WON’T make the last year before you retire, whenever you eventually do retire.


This is insightful and coincides with my plans.

PreciousCargo
05-09-2019, 06:14 PM
The REAL use of a flow for junior people is NOT to someday take it yourself. It’s a path out for the senior folks who have no other, the guys with issues that would otherwise keep them from moving on prior to retirement. The guys that if they didn’t have this mechanism, would choke up the pilot group seniority list practically forever.

With legacy retirements hitting record levels in a few years, freeing up those EXTRA 24 captain slots a year so newbie captains can start getting their TPIC is the real benefit of the flow, at least for the overwhelming majority who will leave before the flow anyhow.

This to me makes sense and kinda answers what I thought about to flow to start with. Why would t the captain's tske advantage of it if FOs can have it after 2 years.

FlyingKat
05-09-2019, 11:22 PM
The REAL use of a flow for junior people is NOT to someday take it yourself. It’s a path out for the senior folks who have no other, the guys with issues that would otherwise keep them from moving on prior to retirement. The guys that if they didn’t have this mechanism, would choke up the pilot group seniority list practically forever.

With legacy retirements hitting record levels in a few years, freeing up those EXTRA 24 captain slots a year so newbie captains can start getting their TPIC is the real benefit of the flow, at least for the overwhelming majority who will leave before the flow anyhow.

Well your logic works as long as F9 is taking people, which they are not for at least the next 3 months.

Excargodog
05-10-2019, 06:25 AM
Well your logic works as long as F9 is taking people, which they are not for at least the next 3 months.

The LOGIC works regardless. But you point out the problem with ANY flow. It can always be throttled at the top. And in wholly owned regionals, 9E, the AA wholly owned, and QX, where the major is actually making money on the owned regional, it can effectively be throttled at both ends, since the major can go to hiring off the street to avoid shorting the regional on manpower.

Cujo665
05-11-2019, 04:06 AM
The LOGIC works regardless. But you point out the problem with ANY flow. It can always be throttled at the top. And in wholly owned regionals, 9E, the AA wholly owned, and QX, where the major is actually making money on the owned regional, it can effectively be throttled at both ends, since the major can go to hiring off the street to avoid shorting the regional on manpower.

That is not correct. The AA regional flow programs are not optional like the guaranteed interview programs elsewhere, the AA flow programs require one of two things. For PSA & PDT a specific number of seats (typically it's 5-6 for PDT and 8-10 for PSA, I don't have the current numbers in front of me), and for Envoy it is 50% of all new hire AA positions, but Envoy may withhold to 29 flows per month currently. Historical data shows they have met or exceeded the 50% requirement since street hiring restarted in 2010.

This is precisely why Envoy went from 3200 pilots to 1800 pilots. They flowed over 780 pilots in the first two years after bankruptcy, then add in the 240 plus that went to other airlines, a few retirements, a few terminations, and the fact that their forced concessions couldn't attract pilots, and poof... a formula for shrinking from 3200 to 1800. So the flow programs at AA do not stop the regional from shrinking if they cant hire.

Much more movement at any of the AA regionals. Further, a major carrier at a recent town hall meeting even admitted that as the shortage worsens, small outfits like Gojets, TSA, CommutAir etc... will go away. They anticipate their feed to be from their wholly owned and Republic and SkyWest as the contractors. They consider the rest to be likely to fail, go bankrupt, get bought, merged or consolidated. They realized what they said, and it is now the only employee town hall meeting not available for viewing online anymore.

The fact is, as the shortage worsens, the flying will be pulled back to the mainlines and their wholly owned regionals. This will keep the upgrades and movement going at the regional level, and it's the movement and upgrades that attract pilots. They aren't going t let their own regionals stagnate when they can keep them running simply by not renewing contracted flying.

A pilot shortage is not the time to be going to a subcontractor.

Excargodog
05-11-2019, 06:38 AM
The fact is, as the shortage worsens, the flying will be pulled back to the mainlines and their wholly owned regionals. This will keep the upgrades and movement going at the regional level, and it's the movement and upgrades that attract pilots. They aren't going t let their own regionals stagnate when they can keep them running simply by not renewing contracted flying.

A pilot shortage is not the time to be going to a subcontractor.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but mine differs. As the shortage worsens, ALL the majors are going to be hiring all the experienced people they can get. AA will hire every quality person OTS they think they need, military or what you refer to as “subcontractor”. And when it gets tight enough, they’ll go first to the OTS, because they already “own” the pilots in their wholly OWNEDS.

As for what is and is not “optional”, ask the Delta pilots where their contractually guaranteed pensions went. Yeah, I know, that was due to a bankruptcy and American Airlines hasn’t been in bankruptcy since... when was it? Oh yeah, December 9, 2013, a whole five and a half years ago....

PreciousCargo
05-11-2019, 12:59 PM
:confused:

I'm gonna go ahead and say it, cause I'm willing to bet that there are other FNGs that dont know but what is F9 and these other terms mean?

tomgoodman
05-11-2019, 01:33 PM
:confused:

I'm gonna go ahead and say it, cause I'm willing to bet that there are other FNGs that dont know but what is F9 and these other terms mean?

Rickair7777 just set up a helpful index in the Career Questions subforum. It shows that F9 is the code for Frontier. :)

Flyboy68
05-11-2019, 04:11 PM
This is from a post of mine from over a month ago.

“Just a quick count of the numbers of retirements for UA, AA, DL, FDX and UPS for the next 5 years, 2019-2023.

AA - 4067 = 26.8% of pilots
DL - 3353 = 22.9%
UA - 2130 = 17%
FDX - 780 = 17%
UPS - 440 = 16%

Total of 10,770 between the 5. So of the current 49,563 pilots at these five airlines, 21.7% will be retiring in the next 5 years. Could be as much as 25% with loss medicals and early retirements.”

Flyboy68
05-11-2019, 06:11 PM
I also added up the number of retirements from the big 3 (AA, DL, UA) over the next 10 years. It’s like 19,994 pilot retirements. And that’s just the big 3. Factor in the other legacies, the majors, nationals, LCC’s, cargo and charter.

At the 14 largest regionals right now, there’s about 20,300 pilots.

PreciousCargo
05-11-2019, 06:23 PM
Rickair7777 just set up a helpful index in the Career Questions subforum. It shows that F9 is the code for Frontier. :)

Is it necessary for us to speak in code in such an anonymous way? Or is this to help to short hand things?

ninerdriver
05-11-2019, 07:18 PM
Is it necessary for us to speak in code in such an anonymous way? Or is this to help to short hand things?

It's just shorthand. For example, it's a lot faster to type 9E than it is to type Endeavor.

C37AFE
05-11-2019, 08:44 PM
I also added up the number of retirements from the big 3 (AA, DL, UA) over the next 10 years. It’s like 19,994 pilot retirements. And that’s just the big 3. Factor in the other legacies, the majors, nationals, LCC’s, cargo and charter.

At the 14 largest regionals right now, there’s about 20,300 pilots.


And then the military has at least 20000 that will also be getting out in the next 10 years also

chrisreedrules
05-12-2019, 09:35 AM
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but mine differs. As the shortage worsens, ALL the majors are going to be hiring all the experienced people they can get. AA will hire every quality person OTS they think they need, military or what you refer to as “subcontractor”. And when it gets tight enough, they’ll go first to the OTS, because they already “own” the pilots in their wholly OWNEDS.

As for what is and is not “optional”, ask the Delta pilots where their contractually guaranteed pensions went. Yeah, I know, that was due to a bankruptcy and American Airlines hasn’t been in bankruptcy since... when was it? Oh yeah, December 9, 2013, a whole five and a half years ago....

Your point would hold more weight if the legacies weren’t actively reducing the number of subcontracted regionals. TSA itself was just axed from the Eagle flying. AA and DA have said they want to continue reducing the number of regionals that fly for them. And they’re doing just that. UA is bound by certain contractual restraints which is why their regional feed is a bit of a mess. But I would expect even UA to reduce the number of regionals flying for it as time goes on.

Excargodog
05-12-2019, 07:00 PM
Your point would hold more weight if the legacies weren’t actively reducing the number of subcontracted regionals. TSA itself was just axed from the Eagle flying. AA and DA have said they want to continue reducing the number of regionals that fly for them. And they’re doing just that. UA is bound by certain contractual restraints which is why their regional feed is a bit of a mess. But I would expect even UA to reduce the number of regionals flying for it as time goes on.

The FLYING isn’t going away. It can be taken in by the majors (great, more jobs at the major for everyone) or it can be whipsawed around from one regional to another to beat demands down at contract time (which has been done for the last ten years) but ultimately we have a relative shortage of pilots for the flying that is needed. That’s quite likely to translate into bigger aircraft (175s in the regionals replacing 50 seaters) or A220s if the bigs decide to pull the workload in house. Either way this is the best environment for regional pilots in decades, which is reflected in rising pay and bonuses. And ultimately, a rising tide lifts all boats.

PreciousCargo
05-22-2019, 06:01 PM
The FLYING isn’t going away. It can be taken in by the majors (great, more jobs at the major for everyone) or it can be whipsawed around from one regional to another to beat demands down at contract time (which has been done for the last ten years) but ultimately we have a relative shortage of pilots for the flying that is needed. That’s quite likely to translate into bigger aircraft (175s in the regionals replacing 50 seaters) or A220s if the bigs decide to pull the workload in house. Either way this is the best environment for regional pilots in decades, which is reflected in rising pay and bonuses. And ultimately, a rising tide lifts all boats.

You have a positive and also realistic insight on this company. Thanks for your input. It helps a lot. Perhaps a great stepping stone to bigger and better later on.

ESQ702
06-04-2019, 04:31 AM
Is it necessary for us to speak in code in such an anonymous way? Or is this to help to short hand things?

If you don’t like codes you’re going to hate the aviation industry.

NeverHome
06-04-2019, 03:41 PM
If you don’t like codes you’re going to hate the aviation industry.

I got my decoder in the mail yesterday. It said: drink more Ovaltine :D

C37AFE
06-04-2019, 06:45 PM
I got my decoder in the mail yesterday. It said: drink more Ovaltine :D

Awesome!, just don’t shoot your eye out!

FlyingKat
06-04-2019, 06:48 PM
Awesome!, just don’t shoot your eye out!

I triple dog dare you....:D:D:D

C37AFE
06-05-2019, 06:30 AM
https://youtu.be/vvB6Ld1g8vA


Found this of TSA management and how they treat pilots

stang
06-13-2019, 05:39 AM
Has the JR manning been actively going on long term and is it likely to be for the foreseeable future? That with what appears to be low morale seems to be 2 big negatives about TSA.

Celeste
06-15-2019, 07:23 PM
Has the JR manning been actively going on long term and is it likely to be for the foreseeable future? That with what appears to be low morale seems to be 2 big negatives about TSA.

It seems to be better at the moment. Who knows what the rest of summer will bring.

FlyingKat
06-15-2019, 07:37 PM
It seems to be better at the moment. Who knows what the rest of summer will bring.

Yep they are already buying back Vacations for July and August.