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pitchattitude
04-03-2019, 04:12 PM
PSA Pilot Agreement Raises the Bar for Pilot Pay
WASHINGTON, D.C.óPilots at PSA Airlines, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, Intíl (ALPA), today announced an agreement that substantially raises the bar for wages in the regional airline industry.

ďThis agreement is the result of our mutual commitment to providing both our current and future pilots with the best possible career path in the airline industry,Ē said Capt. Steven Toothe, chairman of the PSA ALPA Master Executive Council. ďOur first officers will see hourly wage rate increases of up to nearly 20 percent above the regional industry average. Our captains will see wage rate increases of up to 12 percent above the regional industry average.Ē

In addition to increases of up to $12 per hour for all PSA pilots, highlights of the agreement include:

First-year first officer pay at $49.96 per hour, rising to $55.95 for a fourth-year first officer.
$18,000 signing bonus paid over two years.
Captain hourly pay increases to ensure that pilots continue to progress at competitive rates as they upgrade until they flow to American Airlines.
Premium pay for all hours flown above 75 per month.
The deal was reached even though the current collective bargaining agreement is not amendable until 2023. Rather, PSA management and the Association recognized the need to make improvements now to stay competitive in a rapidly changing regional airline environment.

ďWe applaud PSA pilots and management for working together to create a competitive salary structure that will help attract and retain highly trained and qualified pilots. ALPA has long maintained that securing competitive wages, an adequate work/life balance, and career progression opportunities is key to attracting and maintaining a strong pipeline of pilots to the profession. Through this new agreement, PSA pilots worked to ensure that, from recruitment to retirement, their airline is a top contender for aviators at any stage of their career,Ē said Capt. Joe DePete, ALPA president.

PSA has been undergoing dynamic growth. When the current contract was signed in April 2013, the Dayton-based carrier employed approximately 550 pilots. Now, more than 1,900 pilots are operating PSA flights under the American Eagle brand.

PSA Airlines is a wholly owned subsidiary of American Airlines and operates 150 regional jets on 800 daily flights to nearly 100 destinations, including bases in Washington, D.C.; Philadelphia, Pa.; Charlotte, N.C.; Knoxville, Tenn.; Dayton, Ohio; Cincinnati, Ohio; and Norfolk, Va.


Squirrel27
04-03-2019, 04:14 PM
Were they struggling to fill new hire classes?

Do they have DECs?

arbatistoni
04-03-2019, 04:16 PM
I was just copying this to paste it as well. I wonder if this means we could see pay raises in the near future.


Toolbox9909
04-03-2019, 04:20 PM
Now I really feel like chopped liver.

OldBiff
04-03-2019, 04:30 PM
Amature hour at our union continues. Maybe they can get pay raises only for the protected pilot group and call it a win.

deraa
04-03-2019, 04:31 PM
But how many people will they attract with the bases they offer? We offer competitive bases and will continue to fill classes for that reason. Some donít mind about making less as long as they can drive to work. Not many bases offered by PSA are commutable.

MD-11Loader
04-03-2019, 04:34 PM
Meanwhile flight ops wants us to give concessions just to talk to them.

Pntbllr233
04-03-2019, 04:37 PM
Now we know where to send all those people asking for info about Envoy. Shorter flow, better pay, our airplanes, and good east coast bases.

dera
04-03-2019, 04:42 PM
Now we know where to send all those people asking for info about Envoy. Shorter flow, better pay, our airplanes, and good east coast bases.

Not a shorter flow, apart from that, true.

The biggest and best thing about this is, that it cuts the legs off the "we can pay less because flow" argument.

Jackson28
04-03-2019, 04:42 PM
LMFAO, they want concessions to even talk and PSA gets the raises ...

OldBiff
04-03-2019, 04:46 PM
LMFAO, they want concessions to even talk and PSA gets the raises ...

If only we had some means through which we could organize the pilot group to collectively bargain for our interests or take action...

ENH017
04-03-2019, 04:50 PM
If only we had some means through which we could organize the pilot group to collectively bargain for our interests or take action...

https://i.imgur.com/RUdPyQP.jpg

TeeRainPULup
04-03-2019, 04:51 PM
If you are a FO at the bottom of the list now is the time to leave and go to PSA before everybody else does. Seniority is everything. The bases are only temporary.

Ijustlikeflying
04-03-2019, 04:57 PM
Great for those guys, but here we are still sitting around with mediocre everything.

We havenít had good news since the re-opening of the Mia base email back in early 2017... and even that you could argue wasnít good news, it was just something we already had that was taken away and then given back to us. Like a darn childhood timeout.

NoValueAviator
04-03-2019, 04:57 PM
Youíd have to be insane to come here over PSA now. How many still will, just for a chance to fly the 175? Time will tell I guess.

in2deep
04-03-2019, 04:59 PM
Youíd have to be insane to come here over PSA now. How many still will, just for a chance to fly the 175? Time will tell I guess.



Donít underestimate those CFI cadet bros

Jackson28
04-03-2019, 05:03 PM
If only we had some means through which we could organize the pilot group to collectively bargain for our interests or take action...

Maybe let the current union leadership know that it is time to step up?

TeeRainPULup
04-03-2019, 05:11 PM
Youíd have to be insane to come here over PSA now. How many still will, just for a chance to fly the 175? Time will tell I guess.

175 isnít guaranteed, not having a union that steps up for the pilot group is guaranteed.

OldBiff
04-03-2019, 05:16 PM
Maybe let the current union leadership know that it is time to step up?

Theyíre busy fighting holding actions and losing mediation on PSIs. They donít have a strategic picture or any real ability to organize and they donít want help unless youíre in their club. Theyíre still fighting the battles of the bankruptcy not realizing that the objectives have changed. Itíd be nice if they had some conference calls or virtual events, but you should go to base on your day off to kick it with them.

Jackson28
04-03-2019, 05:34 PM
Theyíre busy fighting holding actions and losing mediation on PSIs. They donít have a strategic picture or any real ability to organize and they donít want help unless youíre in their club. Theyíre still fighting the battles of the bankruptcy not realizing that the objectives have changed. Itíd be nice if they had some conference calls or virtual events, but you should go to base on your day off to kick it with them.

Agreed 100%, Hopefully this will make the pilot group more vocal towards the union.

wiz5422
04-03-2019, 06:18 PM
Agreed 100%, Hopefully this will make the pilot group more vocal towards the union.


How many of you are still picking up OT? How many of you are calling for rampers, gate agents, fuel, and catering? How many of you are not following SOP when it comes to writhing every discrepancy you see...even at an out station?

We are our own worse enemy. Unity starts with us.

moon
04-03-2019, 06:22 PM
How many of you are still picking up OT? How many of you are calling for rampers, gate agents, fuel, and catering? How many of you are not following SOP when it comes to writhing every discrepancy you see...even at an out station?

We are our own worse enemy. Unity starts with us.

How many are proffering for this vacancy bid that closes soon. Keep the 15.G.4 displacements coming it certainly isn't ideal for the company.

dera
04-03-2019, 06:23 PM
How many of you are still picking up OT? How many of you are calling for rampers, gate agents, fuel, and catering? How many of you are not following SOP when it comes to writhing every discrepancy you see...even at an out station?

We are our own worse enemy. Unity starts with us.

Most OT goes super senior, so clearly quite a few are picking them up.

Timbird
04-03-2019, 06:29 PM
How many of you are still picking up OT? How many of you are calling for rampers, gate agents, fuel, and catering? How many of you are not following SOP when it comes to writhing every discrepancy you see...even at an out station?

We are our own worse enemy. Unity starts with us.

Well said. EVERYONE read this. It starts with us. The union is helpless without pilot ďsupport.Ē

Toolbox9909
04-03-2019, 07:19 PM
ALPA should not have let this gone through, while they are well aware that envoy pilots (also represented by alpa) has also been fighting for a pay raise. Where is the unity in that? Whipsawing has begun again. If PSA is having recruiting problems, that should have been ALPAs bargaining chip to raise the level for all its union members within the WO. That is the union's job. It doesn't start with me. It starts with them, they are the labor stewards.

Squirrel27
04-03-2019, 07:21 PM
ALPA should not have let this gone through, while they are well aware that envoy pilots (also represented by alpa) has also been fighting for a pay raise. Where is the unity in that? Whipsawing has begun again. If PSA is having recruiting problems, that should have been ALPAs bargaining chip to raise the level for all its union members within the WO. That is the union's job. It doesn't start with me. It starts with them, they are the labor stewards.

Yeah I agree with this. ALPA takes a lot of our money for "unity." But unity means raising QOL and pay for all of us, not just one group at a time.

pitchattitude
04-03-2019, 07:59 PM
It isnít necessarily a public statement, so I wonít post it here, but the ENY MEC has issued a statement in response to the PSA contract situation. Check your emails.

Varsity
04-03-2019, 08:08 PM
PSA took our airplanes and now they will take our pilots.

Like it or not Dion Flannery has turned PSA into a major regional player. He hoodwink'd envoy from Dayton Ohio. Meanwhile RW, RN and Pedro can't even hold onto our existing flying.

We're clearly on the loser team here folks.

Varsity
04-03-2019, 08:10 PM
It isnít necessarily a public statement, so I wonít post it here, but the ENY MEC has issued a statement in response to the PSA contract situation. Check your emails.

Wow. "We had no idea how this happened!"

We're so screwed.

Bassman1985
04-03-2019, 08:20 PM
Year (CA)
1: 83.60
2: 85.64
3: 87.68
4: 89.72
5: 91.76
6: 93.80
7: 95.83
8: 97.88
9: 99.91
10: 101.95
11: 103.99
12: 106.03
13: 108.58
14: 111.13
15: 113.67
16: 116.23
17: 118.78
18: 121.22

This is what weíre up against. Just for reference, Iím about to move up to $72.46 later this month as a 4th-year CA on scale B. PSA would have me at $89.72. Plus their new premium pay rules (125% for all flying above 75 hours and 200% above 87 hours). ALPA is about to get a massive fire mission of nastygrams from this pilot group.

havick206
04-03-2019, 08:21 PM
Year (CA)
1: 83.60
2: 85.64
3: 87.68
4: 89.72
5: 91.76
6: 93.80
7: 95.83
8: 97.88
9: 99.91
10: 101.95
11: 103.99
12: 106.03
13: 108.58
14: 111.13
15: 113.67
16: 116.23
17: 118.78
18: 121.22

This is what weíre up against. Just for reference, Iím about to move up to $72.46 later this month as a 4th-year CA on scale B. PSA would have me at $89.72. Plus their new premium pay rules (125% for all flying above 75 hours and 200% above 87 hours). ALPA is about to get a massive fire mission of nastygrams from this pilot group.

Make sure to use the 700 rates not 145 rates.

Either way, Iím pretty sure I just shat the bed at my layover.

Bassman1985
04-03-2019, 08:26 PM
Make sure to use the 700 rates not 145 rates

Our rates are based on seniority, not what plane we actually fly. I’m on scale B with my seniority (718 according to the latest Pay Band B list on myenvoyair). I would be making a whopping $76.32 on Band C. This is the only CA scale I’ve seen publicly, it’s from the PSA sub-forum thread on this topic.

mketch11
04-03-2019, 08:26 PM
Amature hour at our union continues. Maybe they can get pay raises only for the protected pilot group and call it a win.

Preach!




...

copycopy
04-03-2019, 08:34 PM
ALPA is about to get a massive fire mission of nastygrams from this pilot group.

Doubtful. Our pilots have never really showed any unity, just an ability to complain online without actually putting their money where their mouth is. Oh well, letís all just point our fingers at those who actually provide services to the pilots as it provides us the cathartic release we seek.

Jackson28
04-03-2019, 08:36 PM
Year (CA)
1: 83.60
2: 85.64
3: 87.68
4: 89.72
5: 91.76
6: 93.80
7: 95.83
8: 97.88
9: 99.91
10: 101.95
11: 103.99
12: 106.03
13: 108.58
14: 111.13
15: 113.67
16: 116.23
17: 118.78
18: 121.22

This is what weíre up against. Just for reference, Iím about to move up to $72.46 later this month as a 4th-year CA on scale B. PSA would have me at $89.72. Plus their new premium pay rules (125% for all flying above 75 hours and 200% above 87 hours). ALPA is about to get a massive fire mission of nastygrams from this pilot group.

You think ... 😂

Ijustlikeflying
04-03-2019, 08:51 PM
It isnít necessarily a public statement, so I wonít post it here, but the ENY MEC has issued a statement in response to the PSA contract situation. Check your emails.

I didnít get the email, anyone care to DM it ?

Smutter
04-03-2019, 08:52 PM
Make sure to use the 700 rates not 145 rates.

Either way, Iím pretty sure I just shat the bed at my layover.

You know how are rates work, right? Unless you don't work at envoy then understandable

havick206
04-03-2019, 08:55 PM
You know how are rates work, right? Unless you don't work at envoy then understandable

I know exactly how our rates work. I was saying the list posted above of the new PSA rates arenít inclusive of all their airframes and their blended rate.

Ijustlikeflying
04-03-2019, 08:59 PM
I know exactly how our rates work. I was saying the list posted above of the new PSA rates arenít inclusive of all their airframes and their blended rate.

Itís the 700/900 rate listed above. Havenít seen anything on the 200rate. Probably no more than a couple bucks less.

OldBiff
04-03-2019, 09:01 PM
Doubtful. Our pilots have never really showed any unity, just an ability to complain online without actually putting their money where their mouth is. Oh well, letís all just point our fingers at those who actually provide services to the pilots as it provides us the cathartic release we seek.

You see the union is supposed to be the organizing the pilot group not just sending whoopsie emails. No OT, publish scab lists, and for god sakes slow down the work. The company does this because we allow it and the people we pay to organize and protect us are seemingly not up to the task.

pitchattitude
04-03-2019, 09:27 PM
Year (CA)
1: 83.60
2: 85.64
3: 87.68
4: 89.72
5: 91.76
6: 93.80
7: 95.83
8: 97.88
9: 99.91
10: 101.95
11: 103.99
12: 106.03
13: 108.58
14: 111.13
15: 113.67
16: 116.23
17: 118.78
18: 121.22

This is what weíre up against. Just for reference, Iím about to move up to $72.46 later this month as a 4th-year CA on scale B. PSA would have me at $89.72. Plus their new premium pay rules (125% for all flying above 75 hours and 200% above 87 hours). ALPA is about to get a massive fire mission of nastygrams from this pilot group.

Doubtful. Our pilots have never really showed any unity, just an ability to complain online without actually putting their money where their mouth is. Oh well, letís all just point our fingers at those who actually provide services to the pilots as it provides us the cathartic release we seek.

Email sent

AeroEnvoy
04-03-2019, 10:54 PM
#metoo
Letís make something useful of that hashtag.

JulesWinfield
04-04-2019, 01:14 AM
ALPA should not have let this gone through, while they are well aware that envoy pilots (also represented by alpa) has also been fighting for a pay raise. Where is the unity in that? Whipsawing has begun again. If PSA is having recruiting problems, that should have been ALPAs bargaining chip to raise the level for all its union members within the WO. That is the union's job. It doesn't start with me. It starts with them, they are the labor stewards.

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective. This puts more pressure on Envoy management to raise pay.

Cyio
04-04-2019, 03:08 AM
I said it before and will say it again, the union screwed us with the last LOA. It was all about getting the PP's out and basically gave away the farm to do it.

That was the time to negotiate pay, but the leadership was looking out for its group first, the rest, good luck to ya.

mketch11
04-04-2019, 04:13 AM
Doubtful. Our pilots have never really showed any unity, just an ability to complain online without actually putting their money where their mouth is. Oh well, letís all just point our fingers at those who actually provide services to the pilots as it provides us the cathartic release we seek.
Pretty sure I put my money up on every paycheck, last I checked anyway.

Amansworld
04-04-2019, 04:33 AM
Maybe let the current union leadership know that it is time to step up?


Good luck as this is quite possibly the most impotent union I have ever seen. The union should be recalled and Envoy pilots can easily be backed by APA. Demand nothing but industry leading pay. After all I am sure management gets paid extremely well.

Full pay to the last day. Remove ALPA.

Ijustlikeflying
04-04-2019, 04:59 AM
Good luck as this is quite possibly the most impotent union I have ever seen. The union should be recalled and Envoy pilots can easily be backed by APA. Demand nothing but industry leading pay. After all I am sure management gets paid extremely well.

Full pay to the last day. Remove ALPA.

Now is the time ALPA...now or never. Iíve been saying it for years, in todayís unheard of environment we should be shooting beyond anything we thought possible with pay because the second the industry tanks guess who Parker is coming to first for cuts?

Little olí American Envoyeagle.

NoValueAviator
04-04-2019, 05:37 AM
PSA is the real American Eagle now.

I guess ďplay ball with the people who control your jobĒ guy was right in the end. Heís probably upgrading on the A321 by now, too.

Smutter
04-04-2019, 05:44 AM
Now is the time ALPA...now or never. Iíve been saying it for years, in todayís unheard of environment we should be shooting beyond anything we thought possible with pay because the second the industry tanks guess who Parker is coming to first for cuts?

Little olí American Envoyeagle.
Alpa will not get anything, as with any slight improvements we have received, the company will come to alpa and say sign off on this. Alpa has not negotiated one thing for us, it all has been the company coming to alpa and saying, here we are going to give this to the pilots(sure alpa may have been able to tweak a few things). The company will wait and see if this hurts recruitment, then and only then will envoy see anything.

But let's be realistic, the company is doing a great job of hiring guys who have never flown a plane until 5 months ago, and haven't touched their helicopters in 12 years, and are also celebrating their 55th birthday this year.

Cyio
04-04-2019, 05:50 AM
Alpa will not get anything, as with any slight improvements we have received, the company will come to alpa and say sign off on this. Alpa has not negotiated one thing for us, it all has been the company coming to alpa and saying, here we are going to give this to the pilots(sure alpa may have been able to tweak a few things). The company will wait and see if this hurts recruitment, then and only then will envoy see anything.

But let's be realistic, the company is doing a great job of hiring guys who have never flown a plane until 5 months ago, and haven't touched their helicopters in 12 years, and are also celebrating their 55th birthday this year.

We are also pretty strong on cadets as well. Have to give it to management, they could see the writing on the wall and made a brilliant play with RTP/Cadet programs. Essentially allowed them to act the way they have because people keep showing up to class. This isn't a knock to the RTP or cadets btw, just pointing out the facts. ALPA, along cant do anything.

If the company doesn't want to negotiate they won't, pretty simple. What ALPA screwed up on was the last LOA, this was the chance to get everything better for years to come, however they focused on moving their PP's out. Again, the PP's went through a lot so I am not throwing them under the bus, however we gave up our best opportunity in years for them to flow faster. What the union can and should do is show us what the normal standard is in regards to our operation, that way we all know what we "have" to do and what is "optional" in terms of getting the job done. Is calling for fuel a "mandatory" or "optional" duty of the flight crew? Safety is clearly an issue now, we need some guidance on what areas need to be "slowed" down in the name of safety. Have to be careful with these kinds of things.

DilsonWic
04-04-2019, 05:53 AM
Damn! That YES vote is looking pretty good for them.

copycopy
04-04-2019, 05:59 AM
I said it before and will say it again, the union screwed us with the last LOA. It was all about getting the PP's out and basically gave away the farm to do it.

That was the time to negotiate pay, but the leadership was looking out for its group first, the rest, good luck to ya.

Iíve heard this one before but Iím kind of confused by it. The increased flow through rate for the protected pilot group actually benefits every pilot junior to that group more than any protected pilot due to the compounding effect of a rate increase. Similarly, if they can increase the rate for the following group, it wonít be those pilots who benefit the most, it will be each pilot junior to that group...

Also, what did they give away? Anybody who was here in 2014 knows that grievance had no legs ó so they gave what?

Ijustlikeflying
04-04-2019, 06:05 AM
Iíve heard this one before but Iím kind of confused by it. The increased flow through rate for the protected pilot group actually benefits every pilot junior to that group more than any protected pilot due to the compounding effect of a rate increase. Similarly, if they can increase the rate for the following group, it wonít be those pilots who benefit the most, it will be each pilot junior to that group...

Also, what did they give away? Anybody who was here in 2014 knows that grievance had no legs ó so they gave what?

We were getting screwed with the company metering the flow because of poor wording in the unions part in the original PP flow negotiations. All the company did was give us back what we already had, so essentially the union did nothing.

Toolbox9909
04-04-2019, 06:07 AM
Doubtful. Our pilots have never really showed any unity, just an ability to complain online without actually putting their money where their mouth is. Oh well, letís all just point our fingers at those who actually provide services to the pilots as it provides us the cathartic release we seek.

Look. The leadership is supposed to set the tone. The onus is on them.
If they (union) tell me to go to DFW Terminal B tomorrow to do an informational picket, I'll be there. If they want a letter writing campaign, then I'll write. Cmon. It's absolutely the union leadership's responsibility to organize. That is their job! Whipsawing is absolutely rediculous when we are under one union umbrella. The lessons should have been learned, and contingencies set to prevent a repeat of such management shenanigans. ALPA overall needs to stop this silo mentality within its sub-group and act in unity. I already let our union know how I feel, but they should have been on top of this.

Prime
04-04-2019, 06:50 AM
Iíve heard this one before but Iím kind of confused by it. The increased flow through rate for the protected pilot group actually benefits every pilot junior to that group more than any protected pilot due to the compounding effect of a rate increase. Similarly, if they can increase the rate for the following group, it wonít be those pilots who benefit the most, it will be each pilot junior to that group...

Also, what did they give away? Anybody who was here in 2014 knows that grievance had no legs ó so they gave what?


Exactly this. That LOA benefited everyone after the PP group far more. How about getting captain pay upon award... You guys enjoying that one? This protected pilot would have banked nearly 10 extra months of captain pay while bidding a nice FO line. If I flow a month sooner, so will you.

OldBiff
04-04-2019, 07:01 AM
Exactly this. That LOA benefited everyone after the PP group far more. How about getting captain pay upon award... You guys enjoying that one? This protected pilot would have banked nearly 10 extra months of captain pay while bidding a nice FO line. If I flow a month sooner, so will you.

You know that LOA pay on award was to avoid a grievance/mediation about the DECs right? Do you also know that if theyíd negotiated a proper contract in the first place the company wouldnít have had to clear it up? Itís all union incompetence created. Time for some action or new blood.

Cyio
04-04-2019, 07:03 AM
Exactly this. That LOA benefited everyone after the PP group far more. How about getting captain pay upon award... You guys enjoying that one? This protected pilot would have banked nearly 10 extra months of captain pay while bidding a nice FO line. If I flow a month sooner, so will you.

I think you are confusing why things happened. The pay didn't have anything to do with PP flow rates. While we all moved up a little bit in flow, it did nothing to protect the rest of the pilot group, increase pay, increase qol etc. The only tangible effect was to move the PP's quicker, which I want to reiterate again, I am not ****ting on the PP's so please lets not get all worked up about it. The point is simply, that in MY opinion, we could have battled for more at that point.

I fully admit that I could be wrong about doing more than, I wasn't in the negotiations, however we seem to be losing a lot of battles around here and its getting old.

E190 Driver
04-04-2019, 07:12 AM
Meanwhile ... this list is with the old officers but you get the point..
https://www.unionfacts.com/employees/Air_Line_Pilots

Name Title Gross Salary Benefits & Other Compensation Total Compensation
TIMOTHY CANOLL PRESIDENT $439,630 $253,904 $693,534
BRUCE YORK SR ADVISOR & CHIEF NEG $509,304 $45,499 $554,803
JONATHAN COHEN GENERAL COUNSEL DIR LEGAL $488,619 $3,702 $492,321
LORI GARVER GENERAL MANAGER $477,399 $4,356 $481,755
WILLIAM ROBERTS ASST DIR REPRESENTATION $407,590 $20,872 $428,462
DAVID KRIEGER MANAGING DIR $415,497 $11,801 $427,298
BETTY GINSBURG DIRECTOR REPRESENTATION $416,349 $10,320 $426,669
JIM JOHNSON SR MANAGING ATTORNEY $390,078 $9,280 $399,358
ANA MCAHRON-SCHULZ DIRECTOR E&FA $378,920 $17,093 $396,013
KEITH HAGY DIRECTOR E&AS $361,147 $4,732 $365,879
LIZ KOBY SR MANAGING ATTORNEY $351,851 $12,003 $363,854
MARCUS MIGLIORE SR MANAGING ATTORNEY $346,079 $2,598 $348,677
CLAY WARNER SR MANAGING ATTORNEY $346,103 $1,564 $347,667
ART LUBY ASST DIR REPRESENTATION $339,476 $6,558 $346,034
ANDREW SHOSTACK ASSIST DIR REPRESENTATION $321,125 $21,059 $342,184
MARIE SCHWARTZ DIR STRAT MBR DEV & RES $334,695 $1,989 $336,684
BETH ROBINSON DIRECTOR FINANCE CFO $335,247 $1,315 $336,562
MARGARITA LORENZETTI DIRECTOR FINANCE $317,109 $1,665 $318,774
DONALD MOAK PRESIDENT $245,562 $67,977 $313,539
RUSS BAILEY SENIOR ATTORNEY $308,420 $5,070 $313,490
RUSSELL WOODY SR BENEFITS ATTORNEY $304,102 $390 $304,492
KELLY COLLIE DIRECTOR HUMAN RESOURCES $302,188 $1,957 $304,145
ELIZABETH BAKER DIRECTOR GOVT AFFAIRS $282,374 $13,241 $295,615
RICHARD HARRELL DIRECTOR IT & SERVICES $294,134 $885 $295,019
JOHN SCHLEDER SR LBR REL CNSL/MEC COORD $279,438 $4,756 $284,194
STEVE HODGSON MANAGER R&I $273,352 $6,590 $279,942
CATHY ST. DENIS DIRECTOR COMMUNICATIONS $277,122 $2,489 $279,611
$54,809 $222,124 $276,933
ROB PLUNKETT SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $275,896 $254 $276,150
JANE SCHRAFT SR LBR REL CNSL/MEC COORD $274,188 $910 $275,098
MICHAEL ROBBINS MANAGING DIRECTOR GA & PA $272,223 $107 $272,330
CHRIS BAUM MGR ENGINEERING&OPS $268,228 $3,920 $272,148
NEAL DAVIS LABOR RELATIONS COUNSEL $237,267 $29,224 $266,491
VICTORIA FORTUNA SR BENEFITS ATTORNEY $256,620 $7,762 $264,382
DANIEL MCMANUS PENSION INVESTMENT COORD $253,600 $9,420 $263,020
JOE DEPETE FIRST VICE-PRESIDENT $0 $257,715 $257,715
JERRY WRIGHT MGR AVIATION SAFETY&SECUR $254,547 $2,918 $257,465
DAVID HOLTZMAN SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $244,554 $7,890 $252,444
JOAN (JODY) BETTENBURG SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $241,856 $4,937 $246,793
JOHN DEAN SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $230,770 $15,357 $246,127
LEE VEID-NORSTERN MANAGER IT DEVEL&SUPPORT $240,494 $3,608 $244,102
JIM LOBSENZ SENIOR ATTORNEY $235,068 $5,437 $240,505
ANDREA GRIFFITH MGR FINANCE&MEM ADMIN $232,688 $2,008 $234,696
WILLIAM COUETTE VICE PRESIDENT ADMIN $0 $228,040 $228,040
JOHN WELLS SENIOR ATTORNEY $221,514 $3,206 $224,720
KYE JOHANNING MANAGER E&FA $199,961 $24,217 $224,178
TERRENCE MCTIGUE SR LBR REL CNSL/MEC COORD $216,426 $2,986 $219,412
JACK PARRACK SR ENROLLED ACTUARY $214,733 $1,609 $216,342
SUZANNE KALFUS SENIOR ATTORNEY $209,270 $5,091 $214,361
ANDREW BRENNER SR LBR REL CNSL/MEC COORD $212,316 $1,961 $214,277
DAVID HANNAH SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $206,599 $3,012 $209,611
SANDRA PUSEY SR DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR $203,537 $2,870 $206,407
JIM MEDLEY SR APPLICATIONS ARCHITECT $205,762 $0 $205,762
DAVID SEMANCHIK SENIOR ATTORNEY $198,703 $6,394 $205,097
DON MCCLURE AIR SAFETY COORDINATOR $201,281 $1,019 $202,300
MARCIA EUBANKS LEAD FINANCIAL ANALYST $188,720 $10,549 $199,269
WAYNE KLOCKE SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $196,188 $2,861 $199,049
W. HELLING VICE PRESIDENT FINANCE $0 $196,836 $196,836
HONG LEE SR DATABASE ADMINISTRATOR $196,390 $0 $196,390
MATTHEW BABCOCK SENIOR ATTORNEY $194,757 $1,474 $196,231
GORDON ROSE SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $189,514 $5,392 $194,906
DOUGLAS BAJ MGR STRATEGIC PILOT COM $188,651 $5,420 $194,071
ERIN SHIELDS SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $189,051 $2,946 $191,997
BERT LEGER LABOR RELATIONS ADVISOR $146,261 $45,625 $191,886
TERRY SATURDAY SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $188,523 $2,131 $190,654
SHARON VEREB MGR MBR COMMUNICATIONS $185,233 $3,180 $188,413
HELEN WONG-SCRUGGS SR WEB DEVELOPER $188,312 $0 $188,312
CHRIS MCCARTHY SUPERVISOR IT OPS&SUPPORT $183,830 $3,013 $186,843
MIKE CRANFORD SR SYSTEMS INTEGRATOR $185,963 $0 $185,963
TRAI NGUYEN SR NETWORK INTEGRATOR $185,281 $618 $185,899
JORDAN AUSTIN LEGISLATIVE REP $154,382 $30,179 $184,561
MIKE CARNEY MANAGER REAL ESTATE $183,372 $0 $183,372
JEFFREY LOESEL LABOR RELATIONS COUNSEL $179,442 $2,613 $182,055
CHARLES YEAGER SUPV APPL&WEB DEVEL $180,039 $854 $180,893
JANIE MILLER SYSTEMS ANALYST $180,350 $368 $180,718
BILL DESPINS LEAD ECONOMIC ANALYST $178,743 $921 $179,664
CHAD BALENTINE SUPV ENG & ACCIDENT INV $169,774 $6,152 $175,926
CLINTON BURNER WEB ARCHITECT&DBA $175,699 $0 $175,699
DAVID MARTIN LEGISLATIVE REP $159,675 $15,569 $175,244
MARTA WAGNER SENIOR ATTORNEY $174,872 $298 $175,170
CORY TENNEN SR SCHED&WORK RULE ANALYS $168,369 $6,142 $174,511
KENNETH MULDER SUPV NETWORK SYS SUPPORT $171,556 $1,625 $173,181
RICHARD PARKER ANALYST/PROGRAMMER $172,327 $0 $172,327
ERIC IVERSON SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $165,119 $3,330 $168,449
DONNA KEESE SUPERVISOR FINANCE $167,580 $745 $168,325
REBECCA RONG ANALYST/PROGRAMMER $168,281 $0 $168,281
LAP NGUYEN SYSTEMS ANALYST $167,670 $0 $167,670
KEVIN COMSTOCK SR TRAINING&QUAL SPEC $161,415 $5,640 $167,055
MARK KOVACH SUPERVISOR GEN ACCOUNTING $166,030 $537 $166,567
PAUL KARG LEAD FINANCIAL ANALYST $160,278 $4,660 $164,938
PAM QUAYLE SUPV EVENT PLANNING $163,310 $935 $164,245
JENNIFER CRICHTON SUPERVISOR ACCOUNTING $162,251 $306 $162,557
MIGUEL BARRETO SUPV MEMBER BENEFITS $159,876 $1,133 $161,009
MARK ANGOLIA SR COMM PROD SPECIALIST $151,083 $5,655 $156,738
LAUREN REED LABOR RELATIONS COUNSEL $145,636 $10,589 $156,225
ANYA PIAZZA STRAT PLANNING & TRAINING $152,898 $2,788 $155,686
RON RINDFLEISCH LEAD ORGANIZER $150,982 $4,559 $155,541
ERIN PHILBIN SUPV MEMBERSHIP ADMIN $154,196 $1,300 $155,496
KAY YANCEY SR ECONOMIC ANALYST $142,055 $12,945 $155,000
ROBERT HANCOCK SR WEB DEVELOPER $154,847 $0 $154,847
SALLY GLOVER LABOR RELATIONS COUNSEL $149,716 $2,017 $151,733
CHRISTIAN HECK STAFF ENGINEER $136,569 $14,768 $151,337
RITU GOYAL SYSTEMS ANALYST $150,010 $0 $150,010
AMY ENO SUPV BALLOTING & LCS $149,479 $456 $149,935
MARK REED STAFF ENGINEER $144,261 $3,732 $147,993
GERALDINE MILLER PENSION INVESTMENT ANALYS $147,488 $303 $147,791
SUSAN FAGER ASSOC MANAGING & PROD ED $146,333 $1,116 $147,449
KAREN BROWNE-FLECK SR BENEFITS SPECIALIST $146,962 $382 $147,344
ZACHARY MOONEYHAM MANAGER GOVT AFFAIRS $144,400 $2,942 $147,342
RIMA ZAMAT LABOR RELATIONS COUNSEL $121,733 $25,557 $147,290
ELIZABETH SPEAR SR ECONOMIC ANALYST $134,077 $11,354 $145,431
LOUISE FAWBUSH SENIOR PARALEGAL $145,401 $20 $145,421
LAURA NAAB COMPENSATION&BENEFIT SPEC $145,154 $0 $145,154
JEANETTE DUVALL SR ECONOMIC ANALYST $130,473 $14,376 $144,849
BLAIR DONOVAN OPERATIONS ANALYST $144,752 $0 $144,752
RICHARD BARTSCH SR OFFICE SYS INTEGRATOR $142,696 $1,798 $144,494
JAMES SHEA SR NETWORK INTEGRATOR $143,638 $706 $144,344
MARIAN TASHJIAN SR BENEFITS SPECIALIST $142,950 $208 $143,158
DARRYL JENKINS SR IT COORDINATOR $141,657 $1,092 $142,749
ALLISTER OGILVIE LEGAL & GA REP $141,738 $624 $142,362
JAN STEENBLIK TECHNICAL EDITOR $141,455 $644 $142,099
RONALD GRAHAM SR SYSTEMS INTEGRATOR $139,339 $1,882 $141,221
BRIDGER NEWMAN AVIATION SAFETY/SEC SPEC $135,812 $5,015 $140,827
ANYA MUDRY WEB DEVELOPER $139,875 $0 $139,875
SHIRLEY GIFFORD SUPV PURCHASING/MAILING $139,339 $0 $139,339
JOHN WHITE STAFF ENGINEER $132,284 $1,864 $134,148
ERIC DAVIS SUPV MULTIMEDIA PROD $130,715 $3,072 $133,787
DENA JACKSON LABOR RELATIONS SPEC $133,538 $242 $133,780
VICTORIA BRADY SR MEC BENEFIT SPECIALIST $131,327 $2,353 $133,680
JOHN STIFT STAFF ENGINEER $132,506 $1,142 $133,648
MARC BERGERON PROGRAMMER/ANALYST $133,390 $0 $133,390
JOHN HANSON LABOR RELATIONS COUNSEL $131,408 $330 $131,738
KATHY AHALT HR SPECIALIST/HRIS ADMIN $131,609 $0 $131,609
ALICIA MELVIN SPECIAL ASST TO PRESIDENT $119,924 $10,779 $130,703
KATHY HUNT MEC OFFICE SUPERVISOR $125,272 $5,409 $130,681
MARK STEPHENS NETWORK INTEGRATOR $130,063 $352 $130,415
LINDA SHOTWELL SR ADVOCACY COMM WRITER $128,235 $1,658 $129,893
JUDITH KETTENBEIL MEC OFFICE SUPERVISOR $127,182 $1,129 $128,311
ALICIA ALFIERE SR ECONOMIC ANALYST $116,997 $11,188 $128,185
MARY KELLY REGUS SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $124,138 $3,377 $127,515
MARQUE MALAN AEROMED&HUMAN PERF SPEC $125,054 $2,412 $127,466
YVONNE WILLITS GOVERNING BODIES SUPPORT $125,627 $1,094 $126,721
KELLY GRANIELLO FACILITIES COORDINATOR $125,563 $1,079 $126,642
MARK CATO SR STAFF ENGINEER $125,596 $846 $126,442
RICK KESSEL SR STAFF ENGINEER $124,141 $2,253 $126,394
TIMOTHY RAMIREZ NETWORK INTEGRATOR $126,233 $0 $126,233
KAREN TANNER AP TECHNICAL LEAD $123,413 $1,891 $125,304
EDIE BANKS STAFF ACCOUNTANT $124,940 $40 $124,980
KAREN PATE SR PUBLISHING COORDINATOR $124,856 $0 $124,856
JODY KRAZEISE OFFICE SYSTEMS INTEGRATOR $123,307 $655 $123,962
JEFFREY SMALL SR LBR REL CNSL/MEC COORD $123,270 $0 $123,270
ZACHARY ASHMAN WEB DEVELOPER $116,815 $3,910 $120,725
TAWNYA BURKET COMMUNICATIONS SPECIALIST $120,058 $74 $120,132
BARBARA GOTTSHALK STRATEGIC PLANNING & RES $116,043 $2,779 $118,822
MOLLY MARTIN SUPV CONTENT STRATEGY $118,656 $19 $118,675
COLIN KELLY SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $116,010 $2,351 $118,361
LATASHA SAGO LABOR RELATIONS COUNSEL $117,325 $0 $117,325
DAWN MCCALL-SMITH PROJECT COORDINATOR $116,025 $1,026 $117,051
JOHN NIEDERLEHNER MEMBERSHIP OPS ANALYST $116,904 $0 $116,904
JOHNATHAN NGUYEN SR PC SUPPORT/COMP OPER $116,595 $0 $116,595
NORA LAUTERBACH BENEFITS SPECIALIST $116,054 $0 $116,054
DARRELL PENNINGTON STAFF ENGINEER $114,645 $1,272 $115,917
AMY OKREI SR ADMIN ASSISTANT $115,635 $254 $115,889
SHARON FLYNN ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $114,118 $254 $114,372
BARBARA LONERGAN ADMIN ASST FIRST VP $114,183 $167 $114,350
JOHN WILEY SR SUPPORT SVCS ANALYST $114,114 $0 $114,114
LEE ALGER ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $113,343 $282 $113,625
TONI CLEVELAND PARALEGAL $113,515 $0 $113,515
JOSE CASTRO ASSOCIATE WEB DEVELOPER $104,027 $8,175 $112,202
DONALD AYERS SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $103,650 $8,239 $111,889
RACHEL SAMUDA LABOR RELATIONS COUNSEL $106,483 $3,830 $110,313
NANCY HALSEY EVENT PLANNING SPEC $108,928 $1,004 $109,932
PHILIP THOMAS LBR RELATIONS SPECIALIST $108,994 $0 $108,994
KIMBERLY SEITZ SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $101,507 $7,478 $108,985
JAMES MASTBROOK SUPPORT SERVICES ANALYST $107,772 $0 $107,772
DANA MARTHINSEN SENIOR PAYROLL ANALYST $107,634 $0 $107,634
MELVIN FOREMAN IT & EVENT SERVICES COORD $106,046 $207 $106,253
ALEXANDER VEGA SR MEC IT SUPPORT TECH $100,538 $5,688 $106,226
GRANT WELLS IT COORDINATOR $105,992 $0 $105,992
MARLENE VESMAROVICH SR ADMIN ASSISTANT $99,645 $5,654 $105,299
DEBBIE CHERNAY INSURANCE MARKETING SPEC $105,021 $0 $105,021
KIM AGNEW GRAPHIC DESIGNER $104,037 $0 $104,037
JENNIFER LOFQUIST SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $100,004 $3,512 $103,516
DANIEL ORFIELD SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $103,088 $0 $103,088
JONATHAN WOOD REAL ESTATE COORDINATOR $100,523 $1,396 $101,919
MARY OBRIEN SR PARALEGAL/CNTRCT SPEC $101,777 $0 $101,777
HOA TRAN RECRUITMENT&HR GENERALIST $101,766 $0 $101,766
DUANE DAVIS CONTRACT LIAISON $98,441 $2,725 $101,166
MARY ANN WALSH GRAPHIC DESIGNER $100,347 $716 $101,063
KELLY BARRETT SUPERVISOR CREATIVE SVCS $100,647 $22 $100,669
JANICE REED SR LEGAL ADMIN ASSISTANT $99,730 $0 $99,730
JANICE GENTRY SR BENEFITS SPECIALIST $98,477 $962 $99,439
LISA KWILAS BENEFITS SPECIALIST $98,714 $156 $98,870
YEN TRAN SR STAFF ACCOUNTANT $96,642 $1,521 $98,163
JENNIFER SUTTON SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $97,037 $862 $97,899
SHELLY JACKS STAFF ACCOUNTANT $97,473 $425 $97,898
SUSAN FIELDERS SR ADMIN ASSISTANT $97,156 $607 $97,763
SHELBY HARTMAN MEC OFFICE SUPERVISOR $97,078 $616 $97,694
CHRISTINE CATING SENIOR BUYER $97,499 $0 $97,499
CHRISTOPHER WEAVER ELECTRONIC COMM SPEC $96,274 $494 $96,768
RUTH HILLOCK SENIOR AP ANALYST $96,534 $0 $96,534
TINA LONG TRAINING AND ADMIN COORD $95,513 $874 $96,387
KEVIN PSUTKA SAFETY & SECURITY REP $93,908 $1,716 $95,624
ANNGI TIPTON SR ADMIN ASSISTANT $94,765 $477 $95,242
MARVIN RAMIREZ RESOURCE CENTER LIBRARIAN $93,690 $958 $94,648
JOHN PERKINSON STAFF WRITER $93,358 $824 $94,182
COREY CALDWELL SR MEDIA SPECIALIST $93,672 $0 $93,672
MARTHA MCVAY SENIOR PARALEGAL $91,348 $0 $91,348
JENNIFER CUMMINGS SR ADMIN ASSIST TO DIR $89,510 $896 $90,406
BARBARA SCHILLING SR LEGAL ADMIN ASSISTANT $89,922 $142 $90,064
TERRANCE GIBBS AR&BILLING OP ANALYST $88,802 $1,182 $89,984
LYDIA JAKUB STRATEGIC PLANNING & RES $85,199 $4,711 $89,910
KASIA NEWMAN RESEARCH LIBRARIAN $88,397 $948 $89,345
JAMES HEPPNER UAL MEC CHR $0 $88,852 $88,852
COURTNEY BLAND SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $87,180 $1,097 $88,277
CICELY JENKINS ON-LINE WEB COORDINATOR $87,383 $0 $87,383
PATRICIA HARMON MEC COMTE ADMIN ASSIST $86,263 $152 $86,415
PAMELA BLACK OFFICE COORDINATOR $82,300 $3,559 $85,859
SONYJA CARRINGTON ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $83,727 $784 $84,511
ANGELA JORDAN-HAMILTON ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $83,168 $791 $83,959
PATRICIA CRUZ SR ADMIN ASSISTANT $82,977 $190 $83,167
SUSAN BOULTER MAGAZINE&GRAPHIC DESIGNER $80,783 $1,208 $81,991
BRANDI CHANDLER STAFF ACCOUNTANT $79,876 $2,011 $81,887
ERIC SNOW MOTION GRAPHICS SPEC $80,811 $907 $81,718
JESICA FERRY MULTIMEDIA SPECIALIST $81,620 $0 $81,620
ROSE JOHNSON SENIOR PARALEGAL $81,606 $0 $81,606
CINDI WHEELER PRODUCTIONS SUPPORT COORD $81,203 $396 $81,599
PETRA DURAN-SMITH SR ADMIN ASSISTANT TO DIR $80,593 $527 $81,120
MARY KENNEDY ADVOCACY EDITOR-WRITER $80,317 $0 $80,317
CLAUDIA MARRERO HUMAN RESOURCES ASSISTANT $80,262 $0 $80,262
RANDY KENAGY MGR ENGINEERING&OPS $78,671 $1,571 $80,242
EDWIN HAVRILLA DAL MEC VCH $0 $78,958 $78,958
NADIA MCILHANY SENIOR PARALEGAL $77,833 $332 $78,165
BARBARA LUNA SR LEGAL ADMIN ASSISTANT $77,269 $117 $77,386
STEPHANIE FORBES MEMBERSHIP PROCESS ANALYS $77,285 $0 $77,285
WALTER TORRES MEDIA SPECIALIST $76,637 $0 $76,637
WARD BOTT FINANCE SPECIALIST $74,382 $2,169 $76,551
DEBRA NIEDRINGHAUS ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $76,309 $0 $76,309
JULIE KINSEY SR ADMIN ASSIST C/AOFFICE $76,104 $0 $76,104
SHANNON STEWART LBR RELATIONS SPECIALIST $74,517 $1,424 $75,941
CHRISTINE HOWARD SR LEGAL ADMIN ASSISTANT $75,431 $0 $75,431
GINA LEAHY COPY EDITOR $75,257 $0 $75,257
SUZI FENTON WEB CONTENT COORDINATOR $74,269 $948 $75,217
TANGANEKA HINES PARALEGAL $75,208 $0 $75,208
PAUL (JERRY) CLUTTER SCHEDULING ADMIN COORD $74,863 $0 $74,863
KARI CANTRELL ADMIN ASSIST TO DIR COMM $74,752 $46 $74,798
ANN MUFFOLETTO ASST BENEFITS SPECIALIST $74,263 $267 $74,530
BARBARA PINOCCI BALLOTING & CS SPEC $73,469 $0 $73,469
PATRICIA MORSE INSURANCE ANALYST $73,343 $0 $73,343
JULIA MAYES SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $71,133 $2,132 $73,265
CURTIS TARPLEY SCHEDULING ADMIN COORD $73,240 $0 $73,240
ROBERT NOVAK MEMBERSHIP PROJ ANALYST $71,993 $0 $71,993
THOMAS BANKS RECEIVING&DISTRIB CLERK $71,560 $0 $71,560
CECILIA LEE MEM PROJECT & OPS ANALYST $70,584 $0 $70,584
KEVIN CUDDIHY ADVOCACY WRITER $69,749 $0 $69,749
ERIC JOHNSON PARALEGAL $68,021 $0 $68,021
RICHARD BOWERS BUYER $67,860 $0 $67,860
MARY ANNE PICKETT SR LEGAL ADMIN ASSIST $67,217 $0 $67,217
MARY STALICA SR ADMIN ASSIST MEC/LEC $66,825 $0 $66,825
LOGAN DURHAM ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $66,289 $509 $66,798
MAUREEN NAQUIN AP SUPPORT LEAD $66,785 $0 $66,785
CYNTHIA COON PARALEGAL $59,956 $5,993 $65,949
THOMAS ENDFINGER ADMIN ASSISTANT-COMM $62,429 $3,346 $65,775
CASEY MAILLEY SR MBRSHIP ADMIN ANALYST $65,734 $30 $65,764
FAITH WALLACE SCHEDULING ADMIN COORD $65,646 $0 $65,646
RICHARD CAMERON UAL MEC TRE $0 $65,388 $65,388
EMILY TENER ADMIN ASSSIST C/A OFFICE $65,136 $154 $65,290
ERIC MEEWES WEBSITE COORDINATOR $64,280 $0 $64,280
ANNA JANCEWICZ SR LBR RELATIONS COUNSEL $58,254 $5,814 $64,068
BECKY OTT COUNCIL SVCS COORDINATOR $63,967 $0 $63,967
CHARIS SHERMAN SR BILLING ANALYST $63,942 $0 $63,942
CHARLES HERNANDEZ AR ANALYST $63,848 $0 $63,848
COLLEEN CHAVES SR AP ANALYST $63,714 $0 $63,714
ANA DASILVA A/R ANALYST $63,560 $0 $63,560
JOJAN BARRETT ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $63,237 $307 $63,544
MICHAEL OLEM SR BILLING ANALYST $63,516 $0 $63,516
KRISTIN MATTER SENIOR BILLING ANALYST $63,430 $0 $63,430
ASHLEY LYTTLE SENIOR AP ANALYST $63,169 $7 $63,176
CHRISTINA BROWN ACCOUNTS PAYABLE ANALYST $62,345 $0 $62,345
LINDA JOHNSON AP SUPPORT ANALYST $61,914 $0 $61,914
SALLY OLIVER MEC ADMIN ASSISTANT $61,640 $0 $61,640
ERIN SMITH ADMIN COORDINATOR $60,865 $302 $61,167
ZACH KOPEC INTERNETMEDIA COORDINATOR $56,242 $4,337 $60,579
MARIA KELLY COUNCIL SERVICES COORD $60,497 $0 $60,497
ANNA CHOBANY SR BILLING ANALYST $60,452 $0 $60,452
CARL PEOPLES PUR&RECV/DIST CLERK $60,314 $0 $60,314
TRISH MCHUGH MEMBERSHIP ADMIN ANALYST $60,132 $0 $60,132
LISA NGUYEN ELECTIONS ASSISTANT $59,590 $0 $59,590
VIELDA ROBINSON EVTEXPANLST/EVTPLANASSIST $58,899 $120 $59,019
TAMARA BUSSINEAU ACCOUNTS PAYABLE ANALYST $58,946 $29 $58,975
ERIK RAMLJAK MEC IT SUPPORT TECHNICIAN $58,908 $0 $58,908
KEVIN LAROCHE ACCOUNTS PAYABLE ANALYST $58,749 $0 $58,749
CHER NYHOUS COUNCIL SVCS COORDINATOR $57,941 $0 $57,941
KIM HANSON LEGAL ADMIN ASSISTANT $57,491 $15 $57,506
RENEE MORRISETTE COUNCIL SERVICES COORD $57,429 $0 $57,429
LEAH COSTELLO MEMBERSHIP ADMIN ANALYST $57,409 $0 $57,409
JAMES TOUCHETTE EIA MEC CUS $0 $57,270 $57,270
COLLEEN BOYLE ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $57,214 $0 $57,214
VICTORIA NOBLE MEC ADMIN ASSISTANT $56,904 $0 $56,904
HOLLAND NGUYEN MEMBER INSURANCE SPEC $56,823 $0 $56,823
DANIEL COLLIER ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $56,089 $700 $56,789
FRANCES KNIGHT MEMBERSHIP ADMIN ANALYST $56,213 $0 $56,213
NATHANIEL BAKER SR STAFF ACCOUNTANT $54,712 $209 $54,921
VANESSA KERMICK GRASSROOTS COORDINATOR $50,275 $3,591 $53,866
MAGGI COMES LEGAL ADMIN ASSISTANT $53,208 $600 $53,808
DIANA VEZZETTI AVIATION SAFETY/SEC SPEC $52,460 $410 $52,870
MATTHEW GEDDIE DAL MEC TRE $0 $52,578 $52,578
MERIDITH PRESTON ASST TO MEC SECY/TREAS $52,052 $0 $52,052
STACY CHALMERS ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT $49,979 $1,992 $51,971
JANICE GADRIX ACCOUNTING ASSISTANT $51,965 $0 $51,965
LYNDELL PROSSER ACCOUNTING ASSISTANT $51,877 $0 $51,877
RACHEL LONGINO IT SERVICES COORDINATOR $51,445 $0 $51,445
BRUCE BISHOP UAL MEC SEC $0 $50,834 $50,834
DAN PALCIC BUDGET & FIN ANALYST $49,281 $1,284 $50,565
MATTHEW IRWIN POLITICAL & LEGIS ASST $49,343 $283 $49,626
GREGORY RIZZUTO DAL MEC SEC $0 $49,010 $49,010
KRISTINE VASSER ADMIN ASSIST/RECEPTIONIST $48,898 $0 $48,898
MARIE DUPUIS BILINGUAL ADMIN ASSISTANT $47,840 $322 $48,162
MICHELLE YOUNG SR PUBLISHING COORD $48,133 $0 $48,133
CAROLYN HALL ADMIN ASSIST/RECEPTIONIST $47,673 $272 $47,945
JOANNE KARPUK OFFICE ASSISTANT $47,770 $0 $47,770
JIM OBERHELMAN SCHEDULING ADMIN COORD $46,711 $0 $46,711
BRIAN HEENAN PAC COORDINATOR $41,096 $638 $41,734
ROBERT ROUDIK SR STAFF ACCOUNTANT $41,342 $60 $41,402
SANDRA TITCOMB ELECTION/BALLOTING ANALYS $40,334 $0 $40,334
COLLEEN GENDREAU SECRETARY $39,695 $0 $39,695
TODD INSLER ALPA MEMBER $0 $38,681 $38,681
BRANDY HOUGH BENEFITS SPECIALIST $37,273 $267 $37,540
DAVID ALLEN XJT MEC CHR $0 $37,518 $37,518
TONI VACINEK SR COMMUNICATIONS SPEC $35,355 $0 $35,355
SEAN CASSIDY ALPA MEMBER $0 $34,393 $34,393
ANTHONY MIDDENDORFF ASA MEC CHR $0 $34,298 $34,298
AIROLYN LOGGINS LEGAL ADMIN ASSISTANT $33,353 $0 $33,353
ANDREW STREET MEMBERSHIP ADMIN ANALYST $31,292 $0 $31,292
DAVID LIDDLE MGR MEDIA RELATIONS $30,707 $0 $30,707
JONATHAN ALLEN PCL MEC CHR $0 $30,123 $30,123
LUCRETIA WILLIAMS LEGAL SECRETARY $28,642 $400 $29,042
GAYLE BEBEE ADMIN ASSISTANT P-T $27,951 $681 $28,632
MICHAEL DONATELLI DAL MEC CHR $0 $28,627 $28,627
SEAN MCDONALD FDX MEC STR $0 $28,411 $28,411

Cyio
04-04-2019, 07:13 AM
Look. The leadership is supposed to set the tone. The onus is on them.
If they (union) tell me to go to DFW Terminal B tomorrow to do an informational picket, I'll be there. If they want a letter writing campaign, then I'll write. Cmon. It's absolutely the union leadership's responsibility to organize. That is their job! Whipsawing is absolutely rediculous when we are under one union umbrella. The lessons should have been learned, and contingencies set to prevent a repeat of such management shenanigans. ALPA overall needs to stop this silo mentality within its sub-group and act in unity. I already let our union know how I feel, but they should have been on top of this.

I agree with this. It almost seems like our union leadership is running scared for some reason. Not sure if it fear that the flow would be interrupted, retribution from management to leadership of the union or what.

Things to be done other than conference calls and emails to the members about how yet another issue is won by management.

Cyio
04-04-2019, 07:15 AM
Meanwhile ... this list is with the old officers but you get the point..
https://www.unionfacts.com/employees/Air_Line_Pilots

SNIP

Yeah someone should add that all up, lol.

cr700
04-04-2019, 07:30 AM
I think you are confusing why things happened. The pay didn't have anything to do with PP flow rates. While we all moved up a little bit in flow, it did nothing to protect the rest of the pilot group, increase pay, increase qol etc. The only tangible effect was to move the PP's quicker, which I want to reiterate again, I am not ****ting on the PP's so please lets not get all worked up about it. The point is simply, that in MY opinion, we could have battled for more at that point.

I fully admit that I could be wrong about doing more than, I wasn't in the negotiations, however we seem to be losing a lot of battles around here and its getting old.

The hate is strong with this one. You do realize that Envoy flows three times what PSA does right? Or would you rather sit at PSA for a decade waiting to flow.

Cyio
04-04-2019, 07:33 AM
The hate is strong with this one. You do realize that Envoy flows three times what PSA does right? Or would you rather sit at PSA for a decade waiting to flow.

Not sure how you got the description "hate" from anything I said. PSA has a considerably smaller pilot group as well. New hires here are also looking at an 8+ year flow. Also Envoy flow is set to reduce once the PP's are gone.

Anything else we should discuss?

copycopy
04-04-2019, 07:33 AM
We were getting screwed with the company metering the flow because of poor wording in the unions part in the original PP flow negotiations. All the company did was give us back what we already had, so essentially the union did nothing.

That the language was unclear in the Ď14 agreement that I, and not quite enough other pilots, voted against we can agree on. But, I knew what that language was going to yield during those gun-to-our-heads negotiations, and a grievance wasnít going to change that (at least, I donít believe and arbitrator would have agreed with our position). So, when people say they gave away the farm to increase the rate of flow for the protected pilots, I just donít see it.

Cyio
04-04-2019, 07:34 AM
That the language was unclear in the Ď14 agreement that I, and not quite enough other pilots, voted against we can agree on. But, I knew what that language was going to yield during those gun-to-our-heads negotiations, and a grievance wasnít going to change that (at least, I donít believe and arbitrator would have agreed with our position). So, when people say they gave away the farm to increase the rate of flow for the protected pilots, I just donít see it.

So the company increased flow for the PP's simply because they felt like it?

BigZ
04-04-2019, 07:35 AM
The hate is strong with this one. You do realize that Envoy flows three times what PSA does right? Or would you rather sit at PSA for a decade waiting to flow.
I can think of one WO that was just flowing guys that waited over a decade to flow and it isn't PSA.

copycopy
04-04-2019, 07:36 AM
The hate is strong with this one. You do realize that Envoy flows three times what PSA does right? Or would you rather sit at PSA for a decade waiting to flow.

Well, they did eff us in Ď14 and now their Ď14 hires are flowing as compared to our Ď10 hires. Maybe for a new hire their time to flow is higher than ours, but letís not forget that we had pilots vote no, then bolt over to PSA to undercut their former coworkers, who are now flowing through to AA faster. That is some grade a garbage.

copycopy
04-04-2019, 07:40 AM
So the company increased flow for the PP's simply because they felt like it?

The increase served multiple purposes. The company was already used to 30/mo with the 824, so that number was a comfortable number. The increase served as a marketing tool for the company and recruitment, and by settling the grievance they saved an arbitration process. Also, that settlement was in conjunction with the agreements to make it easier to hire direct entry captains, which they also wanted (the agreement that also gave CA pay beginning at award date). So, weíre there items that both sides wanted? Yeah. Did we give away the farm? No...

Cyio
04-04-2019, 07:56 AM
The increase served multiple purposes. The company was already used to 30/mo with the 824, so that number was a comfortable number. The increase served as a marketing tool for the company and recruitment, and by settling the grievance they saved an arbitration process. Also, that settlement was in conjunction with the agreements to make it easier to hire direct entry captains, which they also wanted (the agreement that also gave CA pay beginning at award date). So, weíre there items that both sides wanted? Yeah. Did we give away the farm? No...

Well exactly, the company needed to get DEC's in the door and to show the flow was working as intended, if not better to increase recruiting. The company wanted more planes and more flying and needed the bodies to do both, hence why it is of my opinion that we should have asked for the pay raises and protections for all the Envoy pilots.

Would we have gotten it all, most likely no but hell if we dont fight for things we would never know. Who would have been hurt by turning down that agreement? The PP's? Ok so a little more time at Envoy, I get that. However it would have had negligible effects on the rest of the pilot group initially with the chance to greatly improve things for years to come.

Just one pilots opinion. I am really not trying to dog anyone, just feel we missed the opportunity to get more.

pitchattitude
04-04-2019, 08:19 AM
Look. The leadership is supposed to set the tone. The onus is on them.
If they (union) tell me to go to DFW Terminal B tomorrow to do an informational picket, I'll be there. If they want a letter writing campaign, then I'll write. Cmon. It's absolutely the union leadership's responsibility to organize. That is their job! Whipsawing is absolutely rediculous when we are under one union umbrella. The lessons should have been learned, and contingencies set to prevent a repeat of such management shenanigans. ALPA overall needs to stop this silo mentality within its sub-group and act in unity. I already let our union know how I feel, but they should have been on top of this.
I agree that the union needs to give us guidance and direction on what we as line pilots can and should be doing on a daily basis to improve our position here.

Jackson28
04-04-2019, 09:05 AM
I agree that the union needs to give us guidance and direction on what we as line pilots can and should be doing on a daily basis to improve our position here.

That has been the problem, there is NONE, other than "We can't do anything as long as the classes are filling up". When you talk to Senior Union reps, they will go as far as pointing out how they almost got shut down a few years back.

So, in short, they are scared, unable and unwilling to stand up for the pilot group as a whole. (protected group seems to be a different story)

So maybe the question needs to be how to replace the current Union Leadership ...

bigtime209
04-04-2019, 09:06 AM
The hate is strong with this one. You do realize that Envoy flows three times what PSA does right? Or w ould you rather sit at PSA for a decade waiting to flow.

And you realize that PSA is flowing 2013 hires right now and will be to 2014 hires soon. While we flow early 2010 hires.

272922
04-04-2019, 09:14 AM
ALPA should not have let this gone through, while they are well aware that envoy pilots (also represented by alpa) has also been fighting for a pay raise. Where is the unity in that? Whipsawing has begun again. If PSA is having recruiting problems, that should have been ALPAs bargaining chip to raise the level for all its union members within the WO. That is the union's job. It doesn't start with me. It starts with them, they are the labor stewards.

LMAO!

PSA Sucks, they stole our aircraft, agreed to pay caps, and they're bringing down the whole industry, STOP THE WHIPSAW!!

- or-

PSA is now getting paid way more than us and faster flow and SAP, STOP THE WHIPSAW!!

And you clearly have no idea how ALPA as a whole works. And Teamsters has Stewards, ALPA has Status Reps.

But don't worry, your ignorance won't prevent AA from eventually paying all the WO carriers a very similar amount, probably sooner rather than later. Do you actually think they're going to let their precious 175s go understaffed?

havick206
04-04-2019, 09:37 AM
You know that LOA pay on award was to avoid a grievance/mediation about the DECs right? Do you also know that if theyíd negotiated a proper contract in the first place the company wouldnít have had to clear it up? Itís all union incompetence created. Time for some action or new blood.

You do know the DEC is still going to arbitration right?

OldBiff
04-04-2019, 10:28 AM
You do know the DEC is still going to arbitration right?

You know weíre going to lose, because thatís what we do at arbitration. Mainly because our reps think that faith, spirit, and feelings are part of contract law. Theyíre always woefully outgunned and it shows.

buddies8
04-04-2019, 10:31 AM
You are out gunned because klocke is an idiot for a lawyer. He can mess up a wet dream and could not fight his way out of a wet paper bag. Thats from first hand knowledge.

Weekendwarrior2
04-04-2019, 10:39 AM
So do we get PSA rates every time we fly through CLT now? Maybe if we say pretty please to the company theyíll allow it.

Jamesthunder
04-04-2019, 11:45 AM
A 3rd year captain on reserve, no per diem, no additional hours. Pre-Tax values.

Envoy: $5,434.50
PSA: $6,576.00

2nd year FO, same.
Envoy: $3,043.50
PSA: $3,915.75


3rd year captain, 72 hour line, 300 hours of per diem, pre-tax values, 10 additional hours picked up.
Envoy: $6,123.06
PSA: $8,680.40

2nd year FO, 72 hour line, 300 hours of per diem, pre-tax value. 10 additional hours picked up.
Envoy: $3,530.46
PSA: $5,399.43


6th year captain on band B vs PSA 6th year, 72 hour line, 300 hours of per diem, 10 additional hours of flying, pre-tax.

Envoy: $6690.30
PSA: $9434.28

ninerdriver
04-04-2019, 11:51 AM
So do we get PSA rates every time we fly through CLT now? Maybe if we say pretty please to the company theyíll allow it.

Everyone flying through CLT should get an extra $10 for each ramp frequency they have to talk to.

Jackson28
04-04-2019, 12:19 PM
You are out gunned because klocke is an idiot for a lawyer. He can mess up a wet dream and could not fight his way out of a wet paper bag. Thats from first hand knowledge.

Maybe if you pay them based on their performance they actually try? What a concept ...

Throwitaway
04-04-2019, 12:36 PM
Everyone flying through CLT should get an extra $10 for each ramp frequency they have to talk to.

Everyone flying through Charlotte does make extra money. 45 min taxi, keep that over block comin! Piedmont rampers are the real MVP. Can never find their sticks and NEVER hustle, I love my extra moolah! Wait till it gets hot and they're all hanging out in the ac, it's a win win :)

Toolbox9909
04-04-2019, 01:01 PM
LMAO!

PSA Sucks, they stole our aircraft, agreed to pay caps, and they're bringing down the whole industry, STOP THE WHIPSAW!!

- or-

PSA is now getting paid way more than us and faster flow and SAP, STOP THE WHIPSAW!!

And you clearly have no idea how ALPA as a whole works. And Teamsters has Stewards, ALPA has Status Reps.

But don't worry, your ignorance won't prevent AA from eventually paying all the WO carriers a very similar amount, probably sooner rather than later. Do you actually think they're going to let their precious 175s go understaffed?

Dude - go back to the PSA forums and troll there.

Stewardship - it has a real meaning, rather than just a title for the teamsters.

Lmao.

havick206
04-04-2019, 01:02 PM
You know weíre going to lose, because thatís what we do at arbitration. Mainly because our reps think that faith, spirit, and feelings are part of contract law. Theyíre always woefully outgunned and it shows.

Paraphrasing from a reliable source;

- Signing bonus is for new hires replacing the current NH bonus. It doesnít apply to current pilots agreeing to the LOA.

- LOA allows PSA to deliberately over-schedule the training center in case of washouts/unseats.

This shook out like so;

PSA MEC was approached by their management a short time ago and were forced to sign NDAís before being shown the proposed agreement. Their MEC met a week later and were also forced to sign NDAís. It appears that ALPA National was not informed of the developments until it went public.

Hereís the most important part;

Itís no accident that AAG dropped this on PSA first. Trying this with all 3 WOís at once would have encouraged pattern bargaining. They wanted to set the bar low to prevent anyone from negotiating add-ons based on PSAís history.

DasaniSun
04-04-2019, 01:26 PM
Paraphrasing from a reliable source;

- Signing bonus is for new hires replacing the current NH bonus. It doesnít apply to current pilots agreeing to the LOA.

- LOA allows PSA to deliberately over-schedule the training center in case of washouts/unseats.

This shook out like so;

PSA MEC was approached by their management a short time ago and were forced to sign NDAís before being shown the proposed agreement. Their MEC met a week later and were also forced to sign NDAís. It appears that ALPA National was not informed of the developments until it went public.

Hereís the most important part;

Itís no accident that AAG dropped this on PSA first. Trying this with all 3 WOís at once would have encouraged pattern bargaining. They wanted to set the bar low to prevent anyone from negotiating add-ons based on PSAís history.

That last part is pretty telling...

buddies8
04-04-2019, 01:27 PM
That info come from our eny mec?

Sandwich Artist
04-04-2019, 01:30 PM
It appears that ALPA National was not informed of the developments until it went public.

The first communication of any sort to the pilot group was not from the company, not from the MEC, but a press-release from ALPA national.

Doesn't pass the sniff test.

272922
04-04-2019, 01:40 PM
Dude - go back to the PSA forums and troll there.

Stewardship - it has a real meaning, rather than just a title for the teamsters.

Lmao.


Definition of stewardship


1 : the office, duties, and obligations of a steward (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/steward)

2 : the conducting, supervising, or managing of something especially : the careful and responsible management of something entrusted to one's care stewardship of natural resources

Last I checked, the PSA MEC just voted on an offer from the company that is about a $13 dollar raise for me, and didn't give up anything for it.

But hey, don't let facts get in the way of your keyboard warrior skillz.





That last part is pretty telling...
Pretty ignorant if you ask me.

Flyboyxc91
04-04-2019, 01:42 PM
Paraphrasing from a reliable source;

- Signing bonus is for new hires replacing the current NH bonus. It doesn’t apply to current pilots agreeing to the LOA.

- LOA allows PSA to deliberately over-schedule the training center in case of washouts/unseats.

This shook out like so;

PSA MEC was approached by their management a short time ago and were forced to sign NDA’s before being shown the proposed agreement. Their MEC met a week later and were also forced to sign NDA’s. It appears that ALPA National was not informed of the developments until it went public.

Here’s the most important part;

It’s no accident that AAG dropped this on PSA first. Trying this with all 3 WO’s at once would have encouraged pattern bargaining. They wanted to set the bar low to prevent anyone from negotiating add-ons based on PSA’s history.

This is the least useful and untrue post in this thread right now... as much as this has been a surprise for our pilot group at PSA obviously we are happy about it and we are sincerely hoping it boosts the regional industry into broader and progressive negotiations.. particularly for our AA WO sister companies that deserve this as much as anyone else flying metal..

With that being said your post is not correct... You do know that PSA MEC swapped the helm only 5 months ago right? Also we have had more communication and transparency in that small timeframe in form of direct MEC emails, pilot base rep meetings, phone call conferences and LOAs being published, MEC directory published from ALL reps and groups... this is the attitude of or new MEC which has been surprising all of us.. if you’re also saying it’s to prevent add ons etc... the company has tried to throw away the power of SAP and bring in PBS talks for a long while, we didn’t give any of that up with the pay rates.. I do believe that some other things will happen throughout the rest of the year, but the bargaining power hasn’t been compromised at all just for rates. That’s where your statements don’t make any sense whatsoever, in fact it sounds uneducated to the recent events.

I hope you guys hear the positive progression you deserve soon.

havick206
04-04-2019, 01:43 PM
Donít shoot the messenger.

That being said it makes sense if true. Why the need to force NDAís and get a deal done quickly without putting to a pilot vote?

FlyyGuyy
04-04-2019, 01:49 PM
This is the least useful and untrue post in this thread right now... as much as this has been a surprise for our pilot group at PSA obviously we are happy about it and we are sincerely hoping it boosts the regional industry into broader and progressive negotiations.. particularly for our AA WO sister companies that deserve this as much as anyone else flying metal..

With that being said your post is not correct... You do know that PSA MEC swapped the helm only 5 months ago right? Also we have had more communication and transparency in that small timeframe in form of direct MEC emails, pilot base rep meetings, phone call conferences and LOAs being published, MEC directory published from ALL reps and groups... this is the attitude of or new MEC which has been surprising all of us.. if youíre also saying itís to prevent add ons etc... the company has tried to throw away the power of SAP and bring in PBS talks for a long while, we didnít give any of that up with the pay rates.. I do believe that some other things will happen throughout the rest of the year, but the bargaining power hasnít been compromised at all just for rates. Thatís where your statements donít make any sense whatsoever, in fact it sounds uneducated to the recent events.

I hope you guys hear the positive progression you deserve soon.

Don't forget that there's basically nobody left at PSA who could have voted back in 2013... The pilot group is entirely new.

272922
04-04-2019, 01:53 PM
Don’t shoot the messenger.

That being said it makes sense if true. Why the need to force NDA’s and get a deal done quickly without putting to a pilot vote?
Why would we shoot him when debunking him is just as easy and a whole lot cleaner too?

Pattern Bargaining is the process of individual pilot groups leap frogging each other based on the gains that a given pilot group has gotten. If AA's true goal was minimizing that process they would've engaged each MEC in NDAs, etc, at the same time, not sequentially.

What their overall game plan is I don't know, but I'd wager an hour of my new raise that you'll soon see ENY and PDT get similar offers with no strings attached. It makes ZERO sense to cripple the hiring of two of your three WO carriers by just giving one of them a raise.

Regardless, I don't see any WO carrier making significant monetary gains above what PSA has, simply because of the fact that flow has value, as I've heard our union math nerd say.

272922
04-04-2019, 01:55 PM
Don't forget that there's basically nobody left at PSA who could have voted back in 2013... The pilot group is entirely new.
Dude this is internet. Don't let facts get in the way of your feelings.

moon
04-04-2019, 03:17 PM
Paraphrasing from a reliable source;

- Signing bonus is for new hires replacing the current NH bonus. It doesnít apply to current pilots agreeing to the LOA.

- LOA allows PSA to deliberately over-schedule the training center in case of washouts/unseats.

This shook out like so;

PSA MEC was approached by their management a short time ago and were forced to sign NDAís before being shown the proposed agreement. Their MEC met a week later and were also forced to sign NDAís. It appears that ALPA National was not informed of the developments until it went public.

Hereís the most important part;

Itís no accident that AAG dropped this on PSA first. Trying this with all 3 WOís at once would have encouraged pattern bargaining. They wanted to set the bar low to prevent anyone from negotiating add-ons based on PSAís history.

Maybe no 2013 pilots are at PSA but those who jumped at the opportunity to ride the PSA wagon are still there and they were there in September of 2016 also when we should have gotten these raises but PSA jumped at a bad deal then to set the bar for the other WOs for years to come. So I think your statement has some merit. Happy the pay is going up over there hopefully to be followed shortly by us and PDT but I hope the PSAers still realize there's a long way to go to get credibility back in mine and many many envoy pilots eyes.

Throwitaway
04-04-2019, 03:26 PM
I hope the PSAers still realize there's a long way to go to get credibility back in mine and many many envoy pilots eyes.

Thought about, still couldn't care less about my credibility in your eyes... I'm not impressed by your vitriol nor do I seek your validation. Go start a thread slamming your coworker and resident youtuber. Stay classy Envoy.

moon
04-04-2019, 03:35 PM
Thought about, still couldn't care less about my credibility in your eyes... I'm not impressed by your vitriol nor do I seek your validation. Go start a thread slamming your coworker and resident youtuber. Stay classy Envoy.

Good for you. Never thought PSA cared about credibility anyway so not too surprised. Enjoy the pay rates.

Cyio
04-04-2019, 03:35 PM
Thought about, still couldn't care less about my credibility in your eyes... I'm not impressed by your vitriol nor do I seek your validation. Go start a thread slamming your coworker and resident youtuber. Stay classy Envoy.

Not sure how long you have been at PSA so in all fairness you could be innocent to the whole issue, however those that chose the concessions back in the day literally detailed the industry and set it back. In addition it directly ****ed Envoy pilots as they just rejected the same deal. While I wasnít around for it to directly affect me, I think it is short sided to just expect everyone to forget it and move on.

Wounds take time to heal and trust, once lost takes even longer to earn back. I am happy for the people at PSA and happy another group of pilots received the compensation they deserve. Well done.

Hereís hoping the rest of us see it.

havick206
04-04-2019, 04:13 PM
Not sure how long you have been at PSA so in all fairness you could be innocent to the whole issue, however those that chose the concessions back in the day literally detailed the industry and set it back. In addition it directly ****ed Envoy pilots as they just rejected the same deal. While I wasnít around for it to directly affect me, I think it is short sided to just expect everyone to forget it and move on.

Wounds take time to heal and trust, once lost takes even longer to earn back. I am happy for the people at PSA and happy another group of pilots received the compensation they deserve. Well done.

Hereís hoping the rest of us see it.

The recent PSA deal on pay remind me of the simpsons episode where Mr Burns offers the nuclear inspectors a new washing machine or whatís in the mystery box.

MD-11Loader
04-04-2019, 04:55 PM
Thought about, still couldn't care less about my credibility in your eyes... I'm not impressed by your vitriol nor do I seek your validation. Go start a thread slamming your coworker and resident youtuber. Stay classy Envoy.

I love that you guys just essentially sold SAP out.

Chunk
04-04-2019, 05:45 PM
I love that you guys just essentially sold SAP out.

Uhhh what? How do you figure?

272922
04-04-2019, 06:03 PM
I love that you guys just essentially sold SAP out.


You've been woefully misinformed.

Flyboyxc91
04-04-2019, 06:16 PM
I love that you guys just essentially sold SAP out.

This is funny..... we didnít sell anything and thatís why itís so surprising to be honest... but good try. No negotiating power has been given away very fortunately. Thanks for your concern though.

chrisreedrules
04-04-2019, 07:23 PM
I love that you guys just essentially sold SAP out.

We still have our SAP. Itís still great. Been working much better the past couple months. Iíve got 12 off and 106 credit for April with our pay override. And now with these new pay rates Iíll have an almost $10,000 month. Not boasting (though I am very pleased with my schedule) but just saying... We didnít give anything up.

That being said I am truly surprised that AAG didnít level raises at all 3 WOs. I donít know what theyíre aiming at by just giving PSA raises but they certainly have something up their sleeve. Been hearing renewed rumors of AAG pulling the 20 Eagle 175s back in house from Compass and the CRJ900s they own from Mesa. So I figured rumors of raises would have been for everyone.

MD-11Loader
04-04-2019, 07:39 PM
You've been woefully misinformed.

So the language that reads ďwith regards to PBS, the company and the Association have agreed to continue good faith discussions as a quid pro quo for these increasesĒ doesnít open the door for PBS to be implemented? Itís coming, and you just unlocked the door.

272922
04-04-2019, 08:05 PM
So the language that reads “with regards to PBS, the company and the Association have agreed to continue good faith discussions as a quid pro quo for these increases” doesn’t open the door for PBS to be implemented? It’s coming, and you just unlocked the door.
You skipped the sentence immediately following that: "Both sides have also mutually agreed that if an agreement regarding PBS is eventually reached, that agreement will go out for a vote to the pilot group."

If you're going to tell a story, tell the whole story. This isn't MSNBC.

Varsity
04-04-2019, 08:33 PM
We still have our SAP. Itís still great. Been working much better the past couple months. Iíve got 12 off and 106 credit for April with our pay override. And now with these new pay rates Iíll have an almost $10,000 month. Not boasting (though I am very pleased with my schedule) but just saying... We didnít give anything up.

That being said I am truly surprised that AAG didnít level raises at all 3 WOs. I donít know what theyíre aiming at by just giving PSA raises but they certainly have something up their sleeve. Been hearing renewed rumors of AAG pulling the 20 Eagle 175s back in house from Compass and the CRJ900s they own from Mesa. So I figured rumors of raises would have been for everyone.

AAG doesn't own any of the mesa crjs.

Jma313
04-04-2019, 09:07 PM
Maybe no 2013 pilots are at PSA but those who jumped at the opportunity to ride the PSA wagon are still there and they were there in September of 2016 also when we should have gotten these raises but PSA jumped at a bad deal then to set the bar for the other WOs for years to come. So I think your statement has some merit. Happy the pay is going up over there hopefully to be followed shortly by us and PDT but I hope the PSAers still realize there's a long way to go to get credibility back in mine and many many envoy pilots eyes.

Iím glad getting my our street cred up is a requirmtent to be decent to one another.

Chunk
04-04-2019, 10:20 PM
I, nor 80% of my coworkers, were at PSA when the contract was signed. We donít hold any ill will toward Envoy and I can tell you that every one of my fellow PSA pilots that Iíve spoken to has stated that they hope all the WOs follow suit with pay parity quickly.

Best wishes on a speedy resolution on your contract.

captande
04-04-2019, 11:32 PM
Iíve never gotten more than a tongue in cheek razzing when needing the jump or sticking my head in to thank the crew for the ride.

Iíve only been here a little over a year, so Iím not deeply familiar with the 2013 situation. Although I hope this doesnít effect how we should treat each other as professionals. I too, am one of the many PSA pilots who hope to see the other WO get the pay increases you deserve.

boiler07
04-05-2019, 12:05 AM
What the PSA guests fail to understand is that it's not whether or not they were on property in 2013 that matters. It's how AAG used PSA to prevent the bar from being raised (aka not lowered as far in BK) at PDT and ENY at the time.

Fast forward to today. I'd like to see us bargain for the rates we wanted last year. However, I suspect the dollar amount is now fixed at exactly the total cost of PSA's agreement. The line will be, "This is what PSA took, so it's what you get too." We are now beholden to the negotiating, or lack thereof, that took place at PSA before this agreement was signed. It was a spoiled opportunity on their part. It will be extremely difficult for ENY or PDT to bargain as planned now that one of the WO's has settled for a certain amount.

Consider what happened here. PSA management had a problem that needed fixing in a time when Regional feed was being brought back in-house for operational considerations. Think about who held the cards at that moment. AAG will not let one of their WOs falter with recruitment or retention for long. Think about the leverage the PSA MEC could have gained by slowing their roll enough to realize the power they had. It begs the question - Why didn't they? The answer lies with the demographics. One particular character from Charlie and the Chocolate Factory comes to mind - Veruca Salt.

https://i.giphy.com/vO8F4fYQd39h6.gif

fenix1
04-05-2019, 12:38 AM
Why would PSA mgt/AAG offer the PSA pilot group a pay increase at this point in time? From the companyís (AAGís) perspective, wouldnít have this made a lot more sense earlier in the process of CRJ-700ís moving from ENY to PSA because PSA was struggling to accept jets? (Or were PSAís issues in taking the 700ís early entirely maintenance related?)

Cyio
04-05-2019, 02:05 AM
For me I am glad that you all got the raises, I truly am. Do I wish it was done as a concerted effort between the three WO's union teams, absolutely. Do I feel that we all could have gotten more if each MEC talked to the other about this and moved forward as one concerted effort? Absolutely.

However, at this point, it is an advancement and if we see it at Envoy it will be a win that we sorely need. Thankfully nothing was given up for it at PSA, so that should help us avoid giving anything up.

I just hope out union doesn't cave easily and give up something important for this.

chrisreedrules
04-05-2019, 03:11 AM
AAG doesn't own any of the mesa crjs.

16 of them actually...

Voski
04-05-2019, 03:13 AM
The real question now is if parity is to be achieved, how long will Envoy & Piedmont MGMT / AAG drag their feet?

MD-11Loader
04-05-2019, 04:40 AM
The real question now is if parity is to be achieved, how long will Envoy & Piedmont MGMT / AAG drag their feet?

As long as they can. Envoy management is beyond adversarial to the pilot group. They arenít motivated at all to help bring parity. AAG will be be the one to make them get it done in order to keep their feed.

FlyPurdue
04-05-2019, 04:50 AM
Iím not convinced that PSA MEC has anything to do with this. My guess (and as was alluded to elseware) is AAG went straight to PSA mgmt, and said get this done ASAP. Thatís probably how it will happen here and at Piedmont. Of course that is if pay pairirty is AAGs strategy. I also agree that we could have Jimmy Hoffa himself negotiating on our behalf and we would get nothing, if AAG is not ready to open the purse strings.

NoValueAviator
04-05-2019, 05:39 AM
Itís interesting that they picked PSA and I havenít heard any theories about why that donít go back to the 2013 judasing. The only WO really struggling to recruit and retain pilots in the ensuing regional pilot glut is Piedmont.

FlyPurdue
04-05-2019, 05:44 AM
The only thing I have thought of, is to use the new rates as leverage for an expeditious JCBA and SLI for a merger between Envoy and Piedmont.

Cyio
04-05-2019, 05:53 AM
The only thing I have thought of, is to use the new rates as leverage for an expeditious JCBA and SLI for a merger between Envoy and Piedmont.
Yuck. Please donít even kid around about that.

NoValueAviator
04-05-2019, 05:58 AM
The only thing I have thought of, is to use the new rates as leverage for an expeditious JCBA and SLI for a merger between Envoy and Piedmont.

Itís too early for this level of wokeposting :eek:

Ijustlikeflying
04-05-2019, 06:07 AM
The only thing I have thought of, is to use the new rates as leverage for an expeditious JCBA and SLI for a merger between Envoy and Piedmont.

I hope youíre wrong...

SilentLurker
04-05-2019, 08:24 AM
The only thing I have thought of, is to use the new rates as leverage for an expeditious JCBA and SLI for a merger between Envoy and Piedmont.


Thatís what they want you to think...

FlyPurdue try and VISUALIZE theshiít show that will occur for 2 seconds.

The Darkness, The Implementation, The Execution. Donít scare me!

AeroEnvoy
04-05-2019, 08:32 AM
16 of them actually...

American co-signed for those 900 but Mesa owns them.

chrisreedrules
04-05-2019, 08:44 AM
American co-signed for those 900 but Mesa owns them.

Ahh gotcha... Well we shall see. Something is a happniní and I donít know what it is just yet.

Jma313
04-05-2019, 09:10 AM
American co-signed for those 900 but Mesa owns them.

AA owns 10% of Mesa so they own have an ownership in those aircraft.

pitchattitude
04-05-2019, 09:19 AM
AA owns 10% of Mesa so they own have an ownership in those aircraft.
I have heard Doug Parkerís wife owned a portion of Mesa, first I have heard that AAG owned any portion of it.

But even if AAG owned a portion of the company, itís not like they could just transfer those aircraft to a wholly owned.

Ijustlikeflying
04-05-2019, 09:58 AM
The union better get on this and as far as Iím concerned we should be going for back pay to the effective date of PSAís agreement. This is bull.

pitchattitude
04-05-2019, 11:05 AM
Excerpt from the following article sent out in todayís ALPA Daily:

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2019/04/04/psa-airlines-significantly-sweetens-pilot-pay.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search

Why the new deal mid-contract?

PSA said it was necessary to ďstay competitive in a rapidly-changing regional airline environment.Ē

Jackson28
04-05-2019, 11:09 AM
The union better get on this and as far as Iím concerned we should be going for back pay to the effective date of PSAís agreement. This is bull.

Then do something about it and contact MEC Leadership directly and let them know, otherwise, nothing will change.

Jackson28
04-05-2019, 11:18 AM
Excerpt from the following article sent out in todayís ALPA Daily:

https://www.bizjournals.com/chicago/news/2019/04/04/psa-airlines-significantly-sweetens-pilot-pay.html?ana=RSS&s=article_search

Why the new deal mid-contract?

PSA said it was necessary to ďstay competitive in a rapidly-changing regional airline environment.Ē

Yeah reading this is just a slap in the face on so many levels ...

wiz5422
04-05-2019, 11:37 AM
The union better get on this and as far as Iím concerned we should be going for back pay to the effective date of PSAís agreement. This is bull.


Quit b!tch!ing we have 175s and flow..what more could you ask for? That is why most of you came here for. If it wasn't you would be at endeavor.

Idontevenfly
04-05-2019, 12:13 PM
I have heard Doug Parkerís wife owned a portion of Mesa, first I have heard that AAG owned any portion of it.

But even if AAG owned a portion of the company, itís not like they could just transfer those aircraft to a wholly owned.

They own about 10 percent because when they went into bankruptcy that was part of the deal for us airways to get a percentage of Mesa I guess. So American has it now.

bigtime209
04-05-2019, 12:46 PM
Itís interesting that they picked PSA and I havenít heard any theories about why that donít go back to the 2013 judasing. The only WO really struggling to recruit and retain pilots in the ensuing regional pilot glut is Piedmont.

The way I understand it is that AAG has already approved the WOs to raise pay rates. This happened awhile back. But itís up to each individual company when to/if to enact pay raises. At the end of the day, it comes out of the individual companyís balance sheet and itís up to them how to balance their budgets.

Ijustlikeflying
04-05-2019, 12:48 PM
Anyone find it strange that PSA recruitment hasnít been news blasting this pay increase all over the place?

Bassman1985
04-05-2019, 12:52 PM
Anyone find it strange that PSA recruitment hasnít been news blasting this pay increase all over the place?

Itís quite possible even the recruiting department was blindsided by this deal. Might need a few days or more to catch up.

CrowneVic
04-05-2019, 01:20 PM
Any thoughts on getting rid of ALPO and going with APA? Might be constructive for those wishing to move on to AA someday, which is likely most. Asking for a friend.

uavking
04-05-2019, 02:28 PM
The way I understand it is that AAG has already approved the WOs to raise pay rates. This happened awhile back. But itís up to each individual company when to/if to enact pay raises. At the end of the day, it comes out of the individual companyís balance sheet and itís up to them how to balance their budgets.

Given that we work for a company that is too cheap to order plastic giveaway wings for kids, that means we'll get our raise sometime between now and never.

Jackson28
04-05-2019, 02:32 PM
Any thoughts on getting rid of ALPO and going with APA? Might be constructive for those wishing to move on to AA someday, which is likely most. Asking for a friend.

Looking at the past track record, right up to the current events, I would be all for it.

bigtime209
04-05-2019, 06:11 PM
Given that we work for a company that is too cheap to order plastic giveaway wings for kids, that means we'll get our raise sometime between now and never.

I'll buy that....

imthecaptainnow
04-06-2019, 08:56 AM
Any thoughts on getting rid of ALPO and going with APA? Might be constructive for those wishing to move on to AA someday, which is likely most. Asking for a friend.

I'm game and the sooner the better! I'm tired of my $30+ per paycheck being taken by these fools when all they do is sit with their thumbs up their butts and wait to flow.
First, they seek to satisfy the pilot group by sending out a strongly worded email that they're "deeply disturbed by the route the company has taken from the event that happened a few weeks ago.
Second, PSA getting a pay raise and ALPA comes out with an email taking credit for the pay raise when in fact PSA came to the union.
I'm tired of the poor representation and my money going out the door with nothing to show for it.

uavking
04-09-2019, 09:50 AM
Anyone got confirmation on a rumor that something like 1/3 of our next class withdrew in the wake of PSA pay? If it's true, good, and may there be more.

Cyio
04-09-2019, 09:54 AM
Anyone got confirmation on a rumor that something like 1/3 of our next class withdrew in the wake of PSA pay? If it's true, good, and may there be more.

First I have heard of it, however I would surprised if there was that much of an exodus so quickly. I pray its true.

buddies8
04-09-2019, 11:21 AM
With all fairness if true to those who left. Higher pay, sap, premium and extra premium for over 75 hours, multiple cheap bases to live in and about 25 percent faster flow. Yes I do not blame them for jumping ship if true.

Cyio
04-09-2019, 11:46 AM
With all fairness if true to those who left. Higher pay, sap, premium and extra premium for over 75 hours, multiple cheap bases to live in and about 25 percent faster flow. Yes I do not blame them for jumping ship if true.

I dont think anyone would blame people for leaving Envoy before class right now. We have officially become bottom tier.

MD-11Loader
04-09-2019, 12:18 PM
Anyone got confirmation on a rumor that something like 1/3 of our next class withdrew in the wake of PSA pay? If it's true, good, and may there be more.

I truly hope that this is the case

havick206
04-09-2019, 12:35 PM
I dont think anyone would blame people for leaving Envoy before class right now. We have officially become bottom tier.

Maybe a hair above PDT. But agree with the sentiment

buddies8
04-09-2019, 01:09 PM
Anyone got confirmation on a rumor that something like 1/3 of our next class withdrew in the wake of PSA pay? If it's true, good, and may there be more.

True, just heard 15+ walked out.

Houpilot2001
04-09-2019, 01:14 PM
True, just heard 15+ walked out.

Got up and walked , or just didn't show? The first would be an unreal dose of reality.

buddies8
04-09-2019, 01:19 PM
Sorry the word true was meant to be
Source, have no idea how it went as it did.

wiz5422
04-09-2019, 01:38 PM
Got up and walked , or just didn't show? The first would be an unreal dose of reality.

If the case, our union has some leverage but I don't have faith that they will use it.

dera
04-09-2019, 05:15 PM
It's been a known "secret" that walking out from one WO and going to another is a big no-no.
I very much doubt this.
But at the same time, I hope it's true. Knowing the source, it's probably a load of nonsense. Especially when the pay raises were known by the time the class started.

Ijustlikeflying
04-09-2019, 05:28 PM
It's been a known "secret" that walking out from one WO and going to another is a big no-no.
I very much doubt this.
But at the same time, I hope it's true. Knowing the source, it's probably a load of nonsense. Especially when the pay raises were known by the time the class started.

Actually itís true and I know a few friends that have come from one wholly owned to another.

dera
04-09-2019, 05:34 PM
Actually itís true and I know a few friends that have come from one wholly owned to another.

Walking out from class and getting hired by another WO?
Big difference there.

AeroEnvoy
04-09-2019, 05:36 PM
It's been a known "secret" that walking out from one WO and going to another is a big no-no.
I very much doubt this.
But at the same time, I hope it's true. Knowing the source, it's probably a load of nonsense. Especially when the pay raises were known by the time the class started.

Is it really? Because I did it and never heard anything from it.

dera
04-09-2019, 05:39 PM
Is it really? Because I did it and never heard anything from it.

You quit and walked away from class, and got hired at another WO?
Or you left a 2-week notice, and got hired?
That's the difference, I don't know facts about this, but it's been touted here for years that you can't walk away from a class without leaving a notice (which is suggested here), and get hired at another WO.

SkylineAviation
04-09-2019, 05:40 PM
You quit and walked away from class, and got hired at another WO?
Or you left a 2-week notice, and got hired?
That's the difference, I don't know facts about this, but it's been touted here for years that you can't walk away from a class without leaving a notice (which is suggested here), and get hired at another WO.

Havenít you been here like 6 months or something? How do you know whatís been touted for years?

Ijustlikeflying
04-09-2019, 05:51 PM
Walking out from class and getting hired by another WO?
Big difference there.

Yes youíre right. But thatís not what happened. I think people just didnít show

dera
04-09-2019, 05:52 PM
Yes youíre right. But thatís not what happened. I think people just didnít show

Not true, class showed up 100%. Thats why we had the class drop.

dera
04-09-2019, 05:54 PM
Havenít you been here like 6 months or something? How do you know whatís been touted for years?

Looks like I've been Here, at APC, for 5 years.

BIueSideUp
04-09-2019, 05:54 PM
I smell a mustache campaign in the works here

SkylineAviation
04-09-2019, 05:57 PM
Looks like I've been Here, at APC, for 5 years.

Haha, ok. For still being on probation as a new hire you sure do have everything figured out

dera
04-09-2019, 06:08 PM
Haha, ok. For still being on probation as a new hire you sure do have everything figured out

So instead of having a point, that's all you've got?
Good on ya'.

arbatistoni
04-09-2019, 06:25 PM
It's been a known "secret" that walking out from one WO and going to another is a big no-no.
I very much doubt this.
But at the same time, I hope it's true. Knowing the source, it's probably a load of nonsense. Especially when the pay raises were known by the time the class started.

maybe so but i know two people who have interviewed at envoy, who were offered a job and were going to accept it, but now are interviewing/trying to interview at PSA as a direct result of the pay raises.

dera
04-09-2019, 06:45 PM
maybe so but i know two people who have interviewed at envoy, who were offered a job and were going to accept it, but now are interviewing/trying to interview at PSA as a direct result of the pay raises.

And that's great news for everyone. But saying "15 people quit the new hire class to go to PSA" is BS.

Crimson37Roger
04-09-2019, 08:53 PM
And that's great news for everyone. But saying "15 people quit the new hire class to go to PSA" is BS.

Most of the garbage posted on here is BS.

SkylineAviation
04-10-2019, 04:49 AM
So instead of having a point, that's all you've got?
Good on ya'.

Hereís the point that you missed Dera. Youíve been at Envoy for all of a couple months but yet the entire Envoy forums are filled with your arguing and know it all posts. There are people on here with knowledge or 1st hand experiences of things you may know little to noting about. Furthermore, this forum is not as anonymous as many would believe. As a probationary pilot I would focus on staying out of the light, learning from crews you fly with and studying. I would not spend all my effort shining a light on myself and confronting anyone here who has different information or opinions than yourself.

Seven3Seven
04-10-2019, 01:01 PM
But you guys have one of your own rookie pilots recruiting for the company on youtube.



That bugs me and I dont even work there

dera
04-10-2019, 07:19 PM
Hereís the point that you missed Dera. Youíve been at Envoy for all of a couple months but yet the entire Envoy forums are filled with your arguing and know it all posts. There are people on here with knowledge or 1st hand experiences of things you may know little to noting about. Furthermore, this forum is not as anonymous as many would believe. As a probationary pilot I would focus on staying out of the light, learning from crews you fly with and studying. I would not spend all my effort shining a light on myself and confronting anyone here who has different information or opinions than yourself.

So posting lies and alternate facts is fine, but correcting them is wrong.
Again, good on ya'.

BigZ
04-10-2019, 07:36 PM
So posting lies and alternate facts is fine, but correcting them is wrong.
Again, good on ya'.

Dude, do you, perhaps, find it noteworthy that a few people here told you that there is a chance you have no idea whatsoever about half the things you are talking about? "Facts" aren't worth a crap when misapplied. Go read up on base awards and effective transfer dates if you want a recent example.
Hint - a friend bid NFE to OFE april 18 and got it. Transferred over august 18, saw that his relative seniority sucks, bid back and was back in LGA january 19. But yeah, go keep throwing around "immediate base awards" "facts".

Varsity
04-10-2019, 07:52 PM
I don't think increased pay is coming.
:(

dera
04-10-2019, 08:00 PM
Dude, do you, perhaps, find it noteworthy that a few people here told you that there is a chance you have no idea whatsoever about half the things you are talking about? "Facts" aren't worth a crap when misapplied. Go read up on base awards and effective transfer dates if you want a recent example.
Hint - a friend bid NFE to OFE april 18 and got it. Transferred over august 18, saw that his relative seniority sucks, bid back and was back in LGA january 19. But yeah, go keep throwing around "immediate base awards" "facts".

Hey, those "immediate" base awards were facts from the last vacancy bid. It's not that far off now.
And hey - most junior guys got what they wanted, the most junior guys were only a few numbers away from their nr.1 preference. The most junior guy got his nr2 3P. He will get it next round. He'll hold it maybe 4-5 months off IOE. Big deal. I dont think it's bad, but that's just me.

You're complaining about 3-4 month base transfers. Seriously? Grow up.

And this is just hilarious coming from someone like you. You said that it takes a year to hold a line at DFL. Guess what, it doesn't, and it never did. I think so far my comments have been more accurate than yours.

UncreativeUser
04-10-2019, 10:28 PM
Hey, those "immediate" base awards were facts from the last vacancy bid. It's not that far off now.

And hey - most junior guys got what they wanted, the most junior guys were only a few numbers away from their nr.1 preference. The most junior guy got his nr2 3P. He will get it next round. He'll hold it maybe 4-5 months off IOE. Big deal. I dont think it's bad, but that's just me.



You're complaining about 3-4 month base transfers. Seriously? Grow up.



And this is just hilarious coming from someone like you. You said that it takes a year to hold a line at DFL. Guess what, it doesn't, and it never did. I think so far my comments have been more accurate than yours.



I know a few guys who got DFE immediately too, didnít think that was possible. This company is way to hard to predict...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BigZ
04-11-2019, 06:03 AM
Hey, those "immediate" base awards were facts from the last vacancy bid. It's not that far off now.
And hey - most junior guys got what they wanted, the most junior guys were only a few numbers away from their nr.1 preference. The most junior guy got his nr2 3P. He will get it next round. He'll hold it maybe 4-5 months off IOE. Big deal. I dont think it's bad, but that's just me.

You're complaining about 3-4 month base transfers. Seriously? Grow up.

And this is just hilarious coming from someone like you. You said that it takes a year to hold a line at DFL. Guess what, it doesn't, and it never did. I think so far my comments have been more accurate than yours.
You were hired what... October?
Coming up on half a year now. How's you line doing? Got the weekends off?
If the reserve times are falling there that's great, but I'm pretty sure your "and it never was" will get a few of your colleagues angry.

BigZ
04-11-2019, 06:05 AM
I know a few guys who got DFE immediately too, didnít think that was possible. This company is way to hard to predict...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I do too, then transferred to LGA while living in DFW to hold a line.

NoValueAviator
04-11-2019, 06:08 AM
Took me 10 mos. to hold DFE. DFL is reliably extremely junior though, usually offered in class.

UncreativeUser
04-11-2019, 10:14 AM
I do too, then transferred to LGA while living in DFW to hold a line.



Damn, least they got the line though


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dera
04-11-2019, 04:44 PM
You were hired what... October?
Coming up on half a year now. How's you line doing? Got the weekends off?
If the reserve times are falling there that's great, but I'm pretty sure your "and it never was" will get a few of your colleagues angry.

Yeah looks like 2 months of reserve for us after IOE in DFW.
ORD just 1 month. We know more next week.

No-one mentioned having weekends off, you're just moving goalposts now.

BigZ
04-11-2019, 05:24 PM
Yeah looks like 2 months of reserve for us after IOE in DFW.
ORD just 1 month. We know more next week.

No-one mentioned having weekends off, you're just moving goalposts now.
"Year of reserve" starts counting from the date of hire. One guy senior to you could flunk a maneuver and wait a month for a sim slot. Would finish ioe a month after you, spend that month less on reserve. Or military reserve guys could have a schedule conflict and finish ioe later.
Time since date of hire is just an easier metric.
So if you were hired in october and got off of ioe january, for example, and get a line in june, that's 8 months to hold a line, not 4.
Weekends was a figure of speech.

dera
04-11-2019, 05:40 PM
"Year of reserve" starts counting from the date of hire. One guy senior to you could flunk a maneuver and wait a month for a sim slot. Would finish ioe a month after you, spend that month less on reserve. Or military reserve guys could have a schedule conflict and finish ioe later.
Time since date of hire is just an easier metric.
So if you were hired in october and got off of ioe january, for example, and get a line in june, that's 8 months to hold a line, not 4.
Weekends was a figure of speech.

So you're saying its a year to hold a line because some guys dropped orders after indoc and aren't through training yet.
Okay.
What matters is time after indoc, not your metric that you just came up with.
With your goal posts, it's 5 months. FYI.

BigZ
04-11-2019, 10:03 PM
So you're saying its a year to hold a line because some guys dropped orders after indoc and aren't through training yet.
Okay.
What matters is time after indoc, not your metric that you just came up with.
With your goal posts, it's 5 months. FYI.
No, what I'm saying is the guy who is senior to you and had a delay in training and shows up on the reserve list two months after you will bump your stupid ass back down the list.
Hence his ioe to line can be 2 months and yours 5. Which is why it is customary to count the time to hold a line since the date of hire. Not a hard concept.

So if it is 5 months, and your first day of indoc was 9/10/18 then you've been holding a line since March? Woohoo, congrats.

Swakid8
04-11-2019, 10:15 PM
No, what I'm saying is the guy who is senior to you and had a delay in training and shows up on the reserve list two months after you will bump your stupid ass back down the list.
Hence his ioe to line can be 2 months and yours 5. Which is why it is customary to count the time to hold a line since the date of hire. Not a hard concept.

So if it is 5 months, and your first day of indoc was 9/10/18 then you've been holding a line since March? Woohoo, congrats.

I may not be with Envoy, but I am with BIZ on this... Dera, I tís always been wise to base the time to hold a line since DOH..... There are a ton of variables if one is using since IOE completion such as training delays, how one person is progressing to become line qualified. But with using DOH, you have solid amount of data that will tell the story (ie multiple people in class).

dera
04-12-2019, 01:37 AM
No, what I'm saying is the guy who is senior to you and had a delay in training and shows up on the reserve list two months after you will bump your stupid ass back down the list.
Hence his ioe to line can be 2 months and yours 5. Which is why it is customary to count the time to hold a line since the date of hire. Not a hard concept.

So if it is 5 months, and your first day of indoc was 9/10/18 then you've been holding a line since March? Woohoo, congrats.

You love to come up with your own "facts" do you?
My DOH was not 9/10/18. But yeah, those hires had a line in March.

Other airlines say "no reserve time", I just try to have a level playing field. But use whatever metric you want.

However you spin it, if you get the 175, you won't get to enjoy the famous award-winning reserve rules for long.

mketch11
04-12-2019, 02:47 AM
ďReserve timeĒ is how much ďtimeĒ one must be on ďreserveĒ....
Isnít this thread about pay raises?

BigZ
04-12-2019, 04:53 AM
You love to come up with your own "facts" do you?
My DOH was not 9/10/18. But yeah, those hires had a line in March.

My bad, add what, another month to that? Line in April? May hopefully? Can't wait.

Jecain7
04-12-2019, 06:43 PM
any word on a meeting this afternoon with the company about pay?

SilentLurker
04-12-2019, 07:14 PM
ďReserve timeĒ is how much ďtimeĒ one must be on ďreserveĒ....

Isnít this thread about pay raises?



(Whisper) Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh



(Whisper) The distraction is actually a good thing. ;)

dera
04-12-2019, 07:16 PM
My bad, add what, another month to that? Line in April? May hopefully? Can't wait.

Month, two for some, on reserve.

smtx123
04-12-2019, 09:44 PM
any word on a meeting this afternoon with the company about pay?
Was there supposed to be one?

Jecain7
04-12-2019, 10:05 PM
Was there supposed to be one?

I heard there was through the grapevine. Honestly i'm hoping y'all and piedmont get something.

Vapor Lock
04-12-2019, 11:14 PM
Envoy Management has made a FIRM stance on not increasing pay. They have made it clear there is no incentives to do so.

Voski
04-13-2019, 06:35 AM
A pay increase would keep here, but since there's a very small chance of that happening, I've got my apps out to LCCs.

MISOhigh
04-13-2019, 06:55 AM
And that’s why I’m going cargo or lateral to another regional in a few months when my commitment is up. In the end, management here and all the way up to AAG is clueless when it comes to taking care of pilots as well as running a company I’d be proud to work for long term. But as many have stated, young kids keep showing up here for the 175, so nothing will change regarding the pay issue. Also, the flow at this point means nothing.

havick206
04-13-2019, 07:04 AM
And thatís why Iím going cargo or lateral to another regional in a few months when my commitment is up. In the end, management here and all the way up to AAG is clueless when it comes to taking care of pilots as well as running a company Iíd be proud to work for long term. But as many have stated, young kids keep showing up here for the 175, so nothing will change regarding the pay issue. Also, the flow at this point means nothing.

My flow is in about 18 months (maybe less with attrition) and Iím also interviewing elsewhere as we speak.

Itís all the little things adding up but the big one was the ORD crew that got fired. That, and pay not keeping pace with industry.

Houpilot2001
04-13-2019, 11:31 AM
. But as many have stated, young kids keep showing up here for the 175, so nothing will change regarding the pay issue. Also, the flow at this point means nothing.

We aren't the only ones with the 175. Atleast 4 other regionals have them. Our recruiters just do a better job selling them.

buddies8
04-13-2019, 01:51 PM
We aren't the only ones with the 175. Atleast 4 other regionals have them. Our recruiters just do a better job selling them.

Ahhhmmm, b.s.

Houpilot2001
04-13-2019, 02:03 PM
Ahhhmmm, b.s.

Everyone likes to tout the 175s as why classes are full. While that may be a small part of the equation, the majority is our recruiting dept did a hell of a job recruiting cadets and rtp guys along with selling street hires on flow. You cant seriously believe the 175 is the only reason we have full classes.

MISOhigh
04-13-2019, 03:00 PM
Everyone likes to tout the 175s as why classes are full. While that may be a small part of the equation, the majority is our recruiting dept did a hell of a job recruiting cadets and rtp guys along with selling street hires on flow. You cant seriously believe the 175 is the only reason we have full classes.



You do make a point about them being great salesman. At least for the RTP community, most guys have passed onto their buddies that better options exist for that community of aviators. I donít know if young cadets would take this advice and seek opportunities elsewhere.


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buddies8
04-13-2019, 05:28 PM
no not just that, but ignorance too.

havick206
04-13-2019, 05:33 PM
Everyone likes to tout the 175s as why classes are full. While that may be a small part of the equation, the majority is our recruiting dept did a hell of a job recruiting cadets and rtp guys along with selling street hires on flow. You cant seriously believe the 175 is the only reason we have full classes.

Yep Envoy was very smart being at the front of the RTP side of things.

You have to hand it to them, the recruitment team circa 2016 had some good foresight which has paved the way for decent class sizes this far down the road. Credit where credit is due.

Voski
04-13-2019, 05:41 PM
Everyone likes to tout the 175s as why classes are full. While that may be a small part of the equation, the majority is our recruiting dept did a hell of a job recruiting cadets and rtp guys along with selling street hires on flow. You cant seriously believe the 175 is the only reason we have full classes.

To your point ó flow is likely going to be 7-9 years for a new hire today. Why would anyone new want to stick around for that? Sure, the promise a mainline job someday (assuming the flow doesnít get slowed down or canceled due to financial woes at American) is better than none at all, but, say you do flow... youíre going to be very junior at AA (i.e. furlough risk). Speaking of financial woes, AAG is struggling right now when virtually every other airline is killing it in this economy. If they canít perform and generate revenue during these good years, the future is quite ominous.

Anyway, I digress. The flow is a powerful recruiting tool but, under closer examination, itís not all itís cracked up to be for someone new today. Frankly, unless I was able to get to AA in the next few years and secure a seniority number in the massive turnover from retirements, Iíd rather go to Spirit. Theyíre cutting into AAís marketshare, much healthier financially, and outperforming them. The only thing thatíd make gutting it out here tolerable to great is better compensation and work rules.

MD-11Loader
04-13-2019, 05:46 PM
Has anyone heard what PDT was offered last week as far as rates go? Iím sure it was a take it or leave it scenario. Iíd assume they will be offered the regular 50 seat rate that PSA agreed to and being that they donít have a fleet to blend it will end up as a lower overall compensation package.

RawHide
04-14-2019, 08:08 AM
Has anyone heard what PDT was offered last week as far as rates go? Iím sure it was a take it or leave it scenario. Iíd assume they will be offered the regular 50 seat rate that PSA agreed to and being that they donít have a fleet to blend it will end up as a lower overall compensation package.

I think itís telling that they havenít announced anything after the meeting they were most likely not interested in the crap deal they were offered

3400
04-14-2019, 08:43 AM
Watch them finally announce the LAX base now. That will keep classes full for a while.

MD-11Loader
04-14-2019, 12:42 PM
Watch them finally announce the LAX base now. That will keep classes full for a while.

They would have to bring in workers with chem suits and squeegees to clean the mess up from the excitement.

NoValueAviator
04-14-2019, 03:37 PM
Idk, I donít care about LAX at all since Iíd have to upgrade to get there. Coming here would still be a lottery shot for the people set on LAX, since they might get condemned to the 2/3 fleets that simply wonít go there.

blackbox348
04-14-2019, 08:30 PM
So back to pay raises...is anything actually going on? The union hasnít posted an update in a while. And what is this about piedmont having an offer?

AZFlyer
04-14-2019, 09:25 PM
Has anyone heard what PDT was offered last week as far as rates go? Iím sure it was a take it or leave it scenario. Iíd assume they will be offered the regular 50 seat rate that PSA agreed to and being that they donít have a fleet to blend it will end up as a lower overall compensation package.
How do you know that PDT was offered anything? No union or company communications to PDT line pilots tangibly indicate that an offer was made. Just that meetings have taken place.

MD-11Loader
04-15-2019, 03:59 AM
How do you know that PDT was offered anything? No union or company communications to PDT line pilots tangibly indicate that an offer was made. Just that meetings have taken place.

I would assume that AAG directed the PDT management to make some sort of starting offer to get the talks rolling. That just makes sense.

Cyio
04-15-2019, 04:33 AM
Watch them finally announce the LAX base now. That will keep classes full for a while.

Yeah, you are right it would, however I don't think they will announce LAX too soon, as they cant let Compass take a hit and/or not provide top notch service. I am fairly confident it will come back to us, however I wouldn't expect anything until after the summer flying is over.

In regards to PDT, did they actually get anything offered or was it just a meet and great? I think its funny how nothing has been offered to us as of yet.

dash8trash
04-15-2019, 05:18 AM
I would assume that AAG directed the PDT management to make some sort of starting offer to get the talks rolling. That just makes sense.

The only communication weíve received stated that our MEC had requested a meeting with management. That was the day after the PSA announcement and it took place last week, no official offers were made. Theyíve made it clear that they will be diligent during the process and not agree to anything unacceptable to the pilot group, we shall see...The MEC also had their regular quarterly meeting at ALPA headquarters, but we havenít heard anything else. Iím sure management is itching to do something since 90% of people scheduled to interview last week simply didnít show up...

AZFlyer
04-15-2019, 06:26 AM
I would assume that AAG directed the PDT management to make some sort of starting offer to get the talks rolling. That just makes sense.
So you're just making things up now.

Crawl
04-15-2019, 06:34 AM
...Iím sure management is itching to do something since 90% of people scheduled to interview last week simply didnít show up...

Oh, really?

rld1k
04-15-2019, 06:36 AM
I'm sure management is itching to do something since 90% of people scheduled to interview last week simply didnít show up...

Where do you guys keep getting this info, 15 walked out of class, 90% didn't show for interview? Just curious.

buddies8
04-15-2019, 06:51 AM
Same place mgt gets theirs for spreading rumors.

ENH017
04-15-2019, 06:54 AM
Where do you guys keep getting this info, 15 walked out of class, 90% didn't show for interview? Just curious.

This guy is talking from Piedmont's PoV

MD-11Loader
04-15-2019, 09:14 AM
The only communication weíve received stated that our MEC had requested a meeting with management. That was the day after the PSA announcement and it took place last week, no official offers were made. Theyíve made it clear that they will be diligent during the process and not agree to anything unacceptable to the pilot group, we shall see...The MEC also had their regular quarterly meeting at ALPA headquarters, but we havenít heard anything else. Iím sure management is itching to do something since 90% of people scheduled to interview last week simply didnít show up...

Thanks! I hope that you all get a significant QOL improvement

dash8trash
04-15-2019, 09:16 AM
Where do you guys keep getting this info, 15 walked out of class, 90% didn't show for interview? Just curious.

It is an absolute fact. 16 scheduled and only 2 showed up for their interview.

TeeRainPULup
04-15-2019, 09:26 AM
It is an absolute fact. 16 scheduled and only 2 showed up for their interview.

This is great news

pitchattitude
04-15-2019, 09:45 AM
It is an absolute fact. 16 scheduled and only 2 showed up for their interview.

Just to be clear, this was at PDT? When?

dash8trash
04-15-2019, 09:48 AM
Just to be clear, this was at PDT? When?

PDT. The interviews were scheduled last Wednesday and the recruiters were completely caught off guard...

NoValueAviator
04-15-2019, 12:50 PM
Good for you guys honestly. It means raises/improvements to entice hires are close at hand.

Voski
04-15-2019, 06:04 PM
Still dead silent from the company on pay increases? :rolleyes:

bigtime209
04-15-2019, 06:11 PM
Still dead silent from the company on pay increases? :rolleyes:

Give ALPA and the company a chance to meet first...

und2015
04-16-2019, 07:44 AM
Give ALPA and the company a chance to meet first...

Itís been almost 3 weeks. Iím sure they have but we just arenít allowed to know whatís going on as usual.

moon
04-16-2019, 07:48 AM
Itís been almost 3 weeks. Iím sure they have but we just arenít allowed to know whatís going on as usual.

If by almost 3 weeks you mean 13 days you'd be right. The comm that they were going to be meeting soon came out a week ago. We are all ready to see some change but we have to give the negotiations a little more chance to progress.

und2015
04-16-2019, 09:01 AM
If by almost 3 weeks you mean 13 days you'd be right. The comm that they were going to be meeting soon came out a week ago. We are all ready to see some change but we have to give the negotiations a little more chance to progress.


Oops yeah, I forgot itís only the 16th.

cbrpilot
04-16-2019, 09:37 AM
Pat came to the DFW crew room yesterday (15APR) for about 45 minutes. Envoy management wants to sit down this week to talk about the raises. Talk only, not negotiate. Pat expects the meeting to occur tomorrow (17APR), and expects a recap email to the pilot group next Monday (22APR).



Other discussion revolved around mid-day rest assignment, fatigue calls, extensions, etc. Maybe someone that was also here will chime in on his talk with us to fill my gaps.

wildcat1
04-16-2019, 11:21 AM
Pat came to the DFW crew room yesterday (15APR) for about 45 minutes. Envoy management wants to sit down this week to talk about the raises. Talk only, not negotiate. Pat expects the meeting to occur tomorrow (17APR), and expects a recap email to the pilot group next Monday (22APR).



Other discussion revolved around mid-day rest assignment, fatigue calls, extensions, etc. Maybe someone that was also here will chime in on his talk with us to fill my gaps.

I hope they understand that the company will want some cost savings in other areas. I'm not saying it is reasonable, I am saying it is what they will want. ALPA needs to be ready to say no. The economy is on our side right now but the contract is on the company's side. They will only reopen the contract if they think they can mitigate costs and extend the contract into the next recession.

cbrpilot
04-16-2019, 12:07 PM
I hope they understand that the company will want some cost savings in other areas. I'm not saying it is reasonable, I am saying it is what they will want. ALPA needs to be ready to say no. The economy is on our side right now but the contract is on the company's side. They will only reopen the contract if they think they can mitigate costs and extend the contract into the next recession.


Agreed. Pat mentioned several times that they are keenly aware of our situation and have no issue with walking away based on the contingencies tied to whatever raise they offer. They (management) know we've walked before, and I'd like to think that would affect the structure of their initial offer, but I've succumbed to the notion that they still just don't give a ****.

wiz5422
04-16-2019, 12:48 PM
Management is only talking to us to show face. They don't want to not plan to give us raises. They will tell our union that They are milling it over and will come back to them at a later date. That date will keep getting pushed into the future. If anyone is expecting raises anytime soon, you are in for a rude awakening.

FlyPurdue
04-16-2019, 01:10 PM
I actually really am optimistic that we will get the pay rates...and on a much shorter timeline than anyone expects. I have no insider information, but having spent 5 years at AA HDQ, I know how they manage the 3 WOs - and frankly Iím not sure that Envoy could even prevent AA from saying Ďgive your pilots xí as thatís what it seems AA offered PSA management.

Additionally, when Eric was in the DFW crew room Thursday - he made it clear that discussions this week were trilateral, between AA, ENY MEC and ENY mgmt.

Jma313
04-16-2019, 01:18 PM
I actually really am optimistic that we will get the pay rates...and on a much shorter timeline than anyone expects. I have no insider information, but having spent 5 years at AA HDQ, I know how they manage the 3 WOs - and frankly Iím not sure that Envoy could even prevent AA from saying Ďgive your pilots xí as thatís what it seems AA offered PSA management.

Additionally, when Eric was in the DFW crew room Thursday - he made it clear that discussions this week were trilateral, between AA, ENY MEC and ENY mgmt.


AA isnít going to let a disparity happen for long amongst the three. Personally I see PDT getting a raise next then Envoy. Per the PSA MEC the company came to the union with rates and there wasnít much negotiating done. Took the money and ran.

UncreativeUser
04-16-2019, 03:22 PM
AA isnít going to let a disparity happen for long amongst the three. Personally I see PDT getting a raise next then Envoy. Per the PSA MEC the company came to the union with rates and there wasnít much negotiating done. Took the money and ran.



This seems like the case. We will hold out for as long as possible


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Varsity
04-16-2019, 05:21 PM
I actually really am optimistic that we will get the pay rates...and on a much shorter timeline than anyone expects. I have no insider information, but having spent 5 years at AA HDQ, I know how they manage the 3 WOs - and frankly Iím not sure that Envoy could even prevent AA from saying Ďgive your pilots xí as thatís what it seems AA offered PSA management.

Additionally, when Eric was in the DFW crew room Thursday - he made it clear that discussions this week were trilateral, between AA, ENY MEC and ENY mgmt.

While we're at it, we should ask AA for new management at Envoy. Current group is stale and hostile.

buddies8
04-16-2019, 05:29 PM
Oh and you think they will give you something different, not even aa has it any better.

griff312
04-16-2019, 05:31 PM
I actually really am optimistic that we will get the pay rates...and on a much shorter timeline than anyone expects. I have no insider information, but having spent 5 years at AA HDQ, I know how they manage the 3 WOs - and frankly Iím not sure that Envoy could even prevent AA from saying Ďgive your pilots xí as thatís what it seems AA offered PSA management.

Additionally, when Eric was in the DFW crew room Thursday - he made it clear that discussions this week were trilateral, between AA, ENY MEC and ENY mgmt.

I'm not buying into that much at all. AAG lit the green light for Envoy pay raises a year ago, but our own management said that as long as classes kept filling up, they saw no immediate need to raise pay

UncreativeUser
04-16-2019, 09:52 PM
I'm not buying into that much at all. AAG lit the green light for Envoy pay raises a year ago, but our own management said that as long as classes kept filling up, they saw no immediate need to raise pay



True statement


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NoValueAviator
04-17-2019, 04:36 AM
Our management hates us with a passion that AA is not capable of mustering about anything lol

Voski
04-17-2019, 12:39 PM
pat came to the dfw crew room yesterday (15apr) for about 45 minutes. Envoy management wants to sit down this week to talk about the raises. Talk only, not negotiate. pat expects the meeting to occur tomorrow (17apr), and expects a recap email to the pilot group next monday (22apr).



Other discussion revolved around mid-day rest assignment, fatigue calls, extensions, etc. Maybe someone that was also here will chime in on his talk with us to fill my gaps.

Show me the MONEY!!!!

boiler07
04-17-2019, 03:10 PM
I actually really am optimistic that we will get the pay rates...and on a much shorter timeline than anyone expects. I have no insider information, but having spent 5 years at AA HDQ, I know how they manage the 3 WOs - and frankly Iím not sure that Envoy could even prevent AA from saying Ďgive your pilots xí as thatís what it seems AA offered PSA management.

Additionally, when Eric was in the DFW crew room Thursday - he made it clear that discussions this week were trilateral, between AA, ENY MEC and ENY mgmt.

Who is Eric?

FlyPurdue
04-17-2019, 03:29 PM
I might have got his name wrong - there was a rep in the crew room whom provided a compensation update last Thursday.

MD-11Loader
04-17-2019, 03:29 PM
Who is Eric?

Chairman of the Membership Committee

pitchattitude
04-20-2019, 08:47 AM
New message out from ENY MEC. Check your ALPA registered email.

jaytheairplane
04-20-2019, 09:16 AM
Why the email does not surprise me at all

Timbird
04-20-2019, 09:24 AM
New message out from ENY MEC. Check your ALPA registered email.

Itís a nothing burger email once again.

uavking
04-20-2019, 09:42 AM
New message out from ENY MEC. Check your ALPA registered email.

I get the sentences about not discussing negotiations on social media/forums, so I guess we can just make things easy: Hey Envoy/AAG, FUPM.

ParkingatMIA
04-20-2019, 09:55 AM
I get the sentences about not discussing negotiations on social media/forums, so I guess we can just make things easy: Hey Envoy/AAG, FUPM.

Now thatís a message I can get behind.

#FUPM #MEGA

buddies8
04-21-2019, 03:42 AM
This above 10 more.

MD-11Loader
04-21-2019, 10:33 AM
Now thatís a message I can get behind.

#FUPM #MEGA

I need a decal made pronto with these two hashtags. Order them by the hundreds and start spreading them out in the system.

Cyio
04-21-2019, 11:51 AM
I need a decal made pronto with these two hashtags. Order them by the hundreds and start spreading them out in the system.
Ok I will be the token moron today. What the hell does fupm mean?

OversoldCommute
04-21-2019, 11:54 AM
Ok I will be the token moron today. What the hell does fupm mean?

F U, pay me

arbatistoni
04-21-2019, 12:28 PM
F U, pay me

Good username.