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View Full Version : New and don't know much


JustAsking
04-04-2019, 02:16 PM
I have read probably 40 hrs and 6 months of back threads, and am just now barely beginning to understand what everyone is saying. Having said that, I have always had a preference for Envoy as the regional I want to fly for, so that's why I'm posting in this thread. Basically, my question is what really matters the most when picking a regional, a base, and an aircraft type? I am just barely 21 years old, have just barely over 1,500 hrs (over 1,000 dual given), already have a BS degree (in business admin), did not participate in the cadet program, and have no kids or wife. I want to fly and dont want to be on reserve forever, but can/will live in whatever base I get assigned so commuting is not a factor. If I go to envoy, I will certainly get last pick of everything because I will be youngest non-cadet in class. I have all the time in the world, but dont want to waste any either. Advice?


Cyio
04-04-2019, 02:19 PM
I personally wouldn’t come to Envoy if I was in your shoes. You are young with no family and a degree, meaning you can hustle your way to the majors.

There are better and some would argue faster ways to get to mainline than Envoy, plus you have your whole career ahead of you. If you were 40, married and no degree Envoy is an ok choice.

If you absolutely must work for AA, well pick a wholly owned and wait it out, however I would consider that a last resort in your position.

Best of luck to you and welcome to the 121 world.

MuPpET
04-04-2019, 02:52 PM
Go to skywest, endeavor or republic in that order.


MySaabStory
04-04-2019, 03:20 PM
Go to skywest, endeavor or republic in that order.

No flow...don’t go.

BIueSideUp
04-04-2019, 03:22 PM
Go to PSA. See thread below.

FlyPurdue
04-04-2019, 03:36 PM
First of all, congrats on being young, motivated, and quite well versed on what the shortcommings of Envoy are. If I were in your shoes, I would go to ExpressJet...hands down.

Their bases are relatively affordable (sans EWR), and they are poised to have a ton of movement. Their pay is near the top, and their contract rocks. I worked their for 2 years, and loved it...except for the pay at the time in 2012!

If I were you, I would spend a few hours reading about XJet, and go from there.

Good Luck!

BIueSideUp
04-04-2019, 04:56 PM
First of all, congrats on being young, motivated, and quite well versed on what the shortcommings of Envoy are. If I were in your shoes, I would go to ExpressJet...hands down.

Their bases are relatively affordable (sans EWR), and they are poised to have a ton of movement. Their pay is near the top, and their contract rocks. I worked their for 2 years, and loved it...except for the pay at the time in 2012!

If I were you, I would spend a few hours reading about XJet, and go from there.

Good Luck!

You could also come here and spend your reserve days talking to all the DECs that just got here from ExpressJet.

Naviator
04-04-2019, 05:14 PM
I say in your situation you won’t need a flow. You have a degree. If you keep your nose clean when the majors come calling you’ll be ready.

If there’s somewhere you’d like to live figure out if there’s a regional with a base there and go with them. Remember pay rates aren’t the only thing, cost of living is important too. Living in Dallas or Houston costs a lot less than living in Chicago or New York.

Things change rapidly in this industry. Today’s golden boy is tomorrow’s red headed step child. Two years ago Envoy was THE place to be with flow and top pay rates. Today with most everyone getting raises, the seniority list growth causing flow to extend, strange hiring which has left some FOs on reserve 12 times longer than others, and now crews getting fired over a simple mistake, Envoy is not that popular.

I second the Express Jet recommendation. They’re a bottom of the barrel regional about to skyrocket. Good pay, new planes, recently acquired, more or less, by United, long upgrade times that are about to drop bigly,

Good luck to you.

BigZ
04-04-2019, 06:03 PM
I third the ExpressJet recommendation

dera
04-04-2019, 06:04 PM
I fourth that. ExpressJet is a great choice right now for someone who can play the high risk high reward game.

Varsity
04-04-2019, 07:42 PM
Expressjet or PSA.

Both offer what Envoy does not.

Tyrion
04-04-2019, 09:30 PM
There are a couple people I've met similar to you who are sitting reserve here waiting for their Republic class date to come around. If you keep your nose clean and check the boxes, other places will pay you thousands more each year of your regional experience. You should be able to get hired by some major well before the flow pays off for you.

The best places have a backlog of hiring, the worst places can have you in class next week.

As long as you avoid Mesa, go where you want to live. Right now the cool kids are PSA, Expressjet, Republic, and Endeavor. I'd expect Piedmont will probably be one of the next companies to get a surprise new pay raise to help their staffing. Skywest is ok, and has advantages over Envoy. Others like Gojet and Air Whiskey could work for you, but they historically stay in the red headed step child category.

NoValueAviator
04-05-2019, 04:46 AM
I’m surprised to see everyone recommending ExpressJet. If you like the idea of a flow and want to move in base, PSA is a no brainer right now. Charlotte is a great place to live.

in2deep
04-05-2019, 05:09 AM
You could also come here and spend your reserve days talking to all the DECs that just got here from ExpressJet.

Do you not realize how much the company has changed over the last few months? Pay raise, more flying, new airplanes. How much is Envoy paying now? 😂

Phoenix21
04-05-2019, 05:36 AM
There are a couple people I've met similar to you who are sitting reserve here waiting for their Republic class date to come around. If you keep your nose clean and check the boxes, other places will pay you thousands more each year of your regional experience. You should be able to get hired by some major well before the flow pays off for you.

The best places have a backlog of hiring, the worst places can have you in class next week.

As long as you avoid Mesa, go where you want to live. Right now the cool kids are PSA, Expressjet, Republic, and Endeavor. I'd expect Piedmont will probably be one of the next companies to get a surprise new pay raise to help their staffing. Skywest is ok, and has advantages over Envoy. Others like Gojet and Air Whiskey could work for you, but they historically stay in the red headed step child category.

Piedmont won’t be a place to be for most people unless flow goes back to a true five years for new hires (vs the nine and a half it’s at now) to go along with the pay increases. Looking at the new PSA pay rates, the 50 seat aircraft rates are significantly less so a there’s going to have to be a supplement to make Piedmont attractive. The schedules and QOL certainly isn’t it.

SilentLurker
04-05-2019, 06:37 AM
I fourth that. ExpressJet is a great choice right now for someone who can play the high risk high reward game.



I fifth the recommendation for ExpressJet.


To OP:

I have read probably 40 hrs and 6 months of back threads, and am just now barely beginning to understand what everyone is saying. Having said that, I have always had a preference for Envoy as the regional I want to fly for, so that's why I'm posting in this thread. Basically, my question is what really matters the most when picking a regional, a base, and an aircraft type? I am just barely 21 years old, have just barely over 1,500 hrs (over 1,000 dual given), already have a BS degree (in business admin), did not participate in the cadet program, and have no kids or wife. I want to fly and dont want to be on reserve forever, but can/will live in whatever base I get assigned so commuting is not a factor. If I go to envoy, I will certainly get last pick of everything because I will be youngest non-cadet in class. I have all the time in the world, but dont want to waste any either. Advice?




1. XJET has had consistently good QOL, soft pay, hourly pay rates for a regional airline. Have been the top in QOL work rules in regional industry for a long time. Always matching to be among the top regional carriers in hourly pay rates as well.

2. Biggest issue at XJET last year had been no movement from the top & no upgrades. A lot changed at XJET over the past 6-12 months (relating to movement from the top). Many have gone to K4 due to preferential hiring after K4’s much improved contract passing with substantial pay and QOL improvements. Others took lateral movement to regionals. That has changed the dynamic at XJet. Upgrade time is falling fast according to one classmate of mine from CFI days still there. Likes the direction of the company and opportunity for United coming up.

3. They have career advancement program to United (Hogan & Interview). You don’t have to be stuck at a regional forever ANYWHERE! Almost all regional carrier have some sort of career advancement program to mainline!!!!!!! (LET THAT SINK IN A BIT).

4. ExpressJet is a highly respected regional carrier & known for having one of the best training programs in the airline industry! I know 3 people that can attest, after jumping ship laterally to other regionals a few years ago. They loved still say XJET training experience by-far was the best training program.

5. Consider pilot group to management relations when also considering a regional carrier.

FlyPurdue
04-05-2019, 06:43 AM
This may sound petty - but their hotels rock. Most of the time it is a Marriott, Hilton, Double Tree, etctera. Plus if the overnight is a certain length, you get a downtown hotel. As I recall, every hotel at least had a restaurant. Very helpful when checking in at 10p, and not really interested in walking a few blocks to a Volero or Waffle House. Alas, their system for trip trades is very powerful, and as a line holder the ILIW works well.

BIueSideUp
04-05-2019, 08:41 AM
Do you not realize how much the company has changed over the last few months? Pay raise, more flying, new airplanes. How much is Envoy paying now? 😂

Excuse me for not conveying my snark correctly haha. An objective comparison of all the regionals on all of the important points would not lead a logical person to choose Envoy. Beyond that I have a few opinions of my own that I would certainly voice offline to friends as to why they would probably be happier at another airline. I can't recommend that anyone come here.

JustAsking
04-06-2019, 07:38 AM
Thanks to everyone, the information and advice has been very helpful and I have follow up conversations scheduled with Expressjet, PSA, and Envoy.

One question I still have, is what does it really mean to be the last guy in class who gets assigned as an FO to the 145 at ORD? (that seems to be where the last picks go) How long is reserve, do reserve pilots get any flying time, is it worth bidding out of ORD if that just lenghtens your time on reserve? How much does it cost to live in ORD? Basically, other than everyone saying "it sucks", what does it actually mean, day to day?

ENH017
04-06-2019, 08:26 AM
Thanks to everyone, the information and advice has been very helpful and I have follow up conversations scheduled with Expressjet, PSA, and Envoy.

One question I still have, is what does it really mean to be the last guy in class who gets assigned as an FO to the 145 at ORD? (that seems to be where the last picks go)

How long is reserve, do reserve pilots get any flying time, is it worth bidding out of ORD if that just lenghtens your time on reserve?

Reserve in Chicago is currently between 1 and 1.5 years from date of hire, although this number should decrease some amount in the summer as the number of lines increases with summer traffic.

How much does it cost to live in ORD?

This varies with the area you move into, just like any other city. In my experience, considering 1 roommate, your range is 600-1200$/mo. You can score better deals with 3+ roommates, and going solo will place you in the 1000$+ area for rooms in the city near the Blue Line, the easiest rail commute you can get to ORD.


Basically, other than everyone saying "it sucks", what does it actually mean, day to day?

Your first month (or two) will have you doing a mix of airport standby (8 hours physically at the airport) and 14 hour RAPs with a 2 hour callout. The most junior pilots can expect to be flown multiple times a week. As you gain seniority, say 4-6 months in, you'll no longer be so junior that you'll get regularly called, but you'll still be stuck with a choice of 4AM RAP, or 10AM RAP.

Reserve can be good, if you like to not work and can afford living on a reserve FO paycheck ($1.9k-2.3k take home cash). If you're looking for hours for a quick upgrade, you'll be SoL. Overtime is scarce for ORD 145 FOs.



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