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View Full Version : What Should Envoy ALPA Do?


bigtime209
04-05-2019, 06:20 PM
Playing devil's advocate here. In light of PSA's pay raises, everyone is ready to burn our local MEC to the ground. So, assuming we gave every person in an elected leadership position the boot and we elected a whole new band of brothers, how do they proceed? How does a new and improved ALPA get us everything we want? We demand that ALPA goes to management and demands pay raises and RSV improvements. Management declines. What is the course of action that ALPA should take once management doesn't want to play ball? I'm not defending the MEC, but I'd genuinely like to know how any other leadership would make changes when management doesn't want to tango. Keep in mind, ALPA national won't put up with any kind of job action such as slow downs, no OT campaigns, etc...Any ideas? Everyone wants ALPA to take a tough stance to get what we want. How do we do that?


Jujuman
04-05-2019, 06:48 PM
By bringing attention to it, wherever possible give it exposure so there’s an “all eyes on us type scenario” — no one wants to be known for underpaying their pilot group or poor work rules compared to our sibling company(ies) in this case perception is reality. Right now, no company wants or should have negative attention, especially in these times of growth, bad juju ;)

bigtime209
04-05-2019, 06:53 PM
By bringing attention to it, wherever possible give it exposure so there’s an “all eyes on us type scenario” — no one wants to be known for underpaying their pilot group or poor work rules compared to our sibling company(ies) in this case perception is reality. Right now, no company wants or should have negative attention, especially in these times of growth, bad juju ;)

Okay...I like that. More public, vocal outcry against the company. Instead of basically stark silence. Good point. Let's keep it going.


NoValueAviator
04-05-2019, 07:04 PM
Careful, last time I spit balled a few things I thought the union should do on here I got dog piled by a half-dozen or so extremely hostile posters who felt I was sabotaging negotiations by “showing our hand.”

That said, I’m open to any lawful expression of dissatisfaction. Since the company keeps chopping lines, I’ll have nothing else to do as my year on RSV becomes a year and a half.

MD-11Loader
04-05-2019, 07:12 PM
How about we let them meet with the company or at least tell us an update? There is no part of me that thinks that they aren’t working on a solution.

Naviator
04-05-2019, 07:32 PM
What’s the point of belonging to a union if they, national, won’t let us band together as a pilot group and use our collective power to “encourage” the company to make changes?

BIueSideUp
04-05-2019, 07:36 PM
By bringing attention to it, wherever possible give it exposure so there’s an “all eyes on us type scenario” — no one wants to be known for underpaying their pilot group or poor work rules compared to our sibling company(ies) in this case perception is reality. Right now, no company wants or should have negative attention, especially in these times of growth, bad juju ;)

Everyone knows how quick the company is to knee-jerk on some bad press lately...

Cyio
04-05-2019, 07:44 PM
The main thing for me would be more vocal dissatisfaction. I just always feel like the union is running scared and never from a position of strength, perceived or otherwise.

I don’t think we should be scared of managment in this environment.

Timbird
04-05-2019, 08:22 PM
Isn’t much Alpa can do. We have a contract, soft negotiations can start next year. I think the company could hold off until then to see how recruiting is affected. 2020, Each side brings a few changes to the table to negotiate with costs supporting them. Envoy will give raises, they just want something in return. PSA gave up nothing from what I read. That is very very rare. But time will tell.

mketch11
04-05-2019, 09:09 PM
The company has said that they aren’t willing to negotiate while recruits are still showing up to class. Therefore it would make sense for us to stop begging the company to negotiate and instead attempt to “inform” potential new hires of our current situation. The company puts out propaganda to attract pilots all the time. The recruiters say everyone will flow in 5 years or less...and not a single rebuttal from the union about that being a load of hot BS. Management loves to parade around all the “new 175s” yet no effort on the union’s part to make potential pilots know that they shined jets are of no consequence to their pay rate and are potentially a negative in regards to relative seniority/QOL. The company was in desperate need for captains so it waived 45k in the faces of potential hires and the Union could have easily smeared that to death with the realities of a being DEC here with our current reserve system. Yet you heard nothing. Bottom line, stop wasting time trying to negotiate with a company who isn’t going to and start doing something that might actually address the issue of why they won’t.

pitchattitude
04-05-2019, 09:33 PM
The company has said that they aren’t willing to negotiate while recruits are still showing up to class. Therefore it would make sense for us to stop begging the company to negotiate and instead attempt to “inform” potential new hires of our current situation. The company puts out propaganda to attract pilots all the time. The recruiters say everyone will flow in 5 years or less...and not a single rebuttal from the union about that being a load of hot BS. Management loves to parade around all the “new 175s” yet no effort on the union’s part to make potential pilots know that they shined jets are of no consequence to their pay rate and are potentially a negative in regards to relative seniority/QOL. The company was in desperate need for captains so it waived 45k in the faces of potential hires and the Union could have easily smeared that to death with the realities of a being DEC here with our current reserve system. Yet you heard nothing. Bottom line, stop wasting time trying to negotiate with a company who isn’t going to and start doing something that might actually address the issue of why they won’t.
I had said something to this affect a while back. The Union, ENY MEC and ALPA, could put out a resolution stating due to XY&Z that they recommend against Envoy. Spend some of that money on informational picketing and advertising.

Jamesthunder
04-05-2019, 10:52 PM
I think that because we're governed by the railway act and we all know that we're likely not to see improvement until the company is forced to make changes, we can provide education. That's why I pushed the pay differences in a separate thread so it wouldn't get buried.

New hires really fall into two categories, fresh pilots don't understand the intricacies of our work rules and don't have anything to compare them to and DECs who are hoping they can get some PIC time who don't realize (to a certain extent) what they're getting into regarding endless reserve, and the thing I always hear, 9 year flow.

It's all about education, realistic observations, without slant.

I honestly doubt switching to APA would help us, maybe I'm wrong, but it's my opinion that folks at mainline have no idea what's going on here. That said, I think the only thing going to force their hand is recruitment numbers as the claim is with PSA and their raises.

I don't think being hostile to folks thinking about coming here is a good strategy though.

Jamesthunder
04-05-2019, 10:54 PM
I had said something to this affect a while back. The Union, ENY MEC and ALPA, could put out a resolution stating due to XY&Z that they recommend against Envoy. Spend some of that money on informational picketing and advertising.

How do you get into the head of a twenty something in college who doesn't think to compare rates between regionals?

Jackson28
04-06-2019, 11:29 AM
I had said something to this affect a while back. The Union, ENY MEC and ALPA, could put out a resolution stating due to XY&Z that they recommend against Envoy. Spend some of that money on informational picketing and advertising.

That, how hard is this, instead of the 2-year-old excuse that they can't do anything and their hands are tied.

Instead, we see communications for our union dues used for free alcohol and food, as part of the "fun" part of our dues at work.

Newsflash, I don't give a rat ass about free booze and food, do something that will at least attempt net improvements for the pilot group as a whole instead of a certain group.

And stop telling us you can't do anything ...

Jackson28
04-06-2019, 11:33 AM
How do you get into the head of a twenty something in college who doesn't think to compare rates between regionals?

I am sure even a 20 something will realize how much of a $900 a month pay difference will make if pointed out.

NoValueAviator
04-06-2019, 12:59 PM
Sending a realistic guy to crash recruitment’s presentations at ATP, etc. would help. Many will still be on the hook the minute they see that shiny 175 though.

uavking
04-06-2019, 01:31 PM
Informational campaigns are worthwhile to inform potential new hires. However, ask yourselves how many guys you've seen wearing ALPA pins on the concourse? There's no reason for you to wear a "slick tie," as the United guys might say. Or ALPA lanyards, for that matter (sure, the company pushes wearing AA lanyards or nothing, but good luck enforcing a ban on union lanyards in court.)?

Historically, other ALPA carriers have worn unique solidarity lanyards during contract negotiations. Where is our MEC on this?

KSCessnaDriver
04-06-2019, 01:44 PM
I am sure even a 20 something will realize how much of a $900 a month pay difference will make if pointed out.

When they live in their parent's basement with no living expenses, they don't care, they want that shiny new 175. And that's not just an Envoy problem, its an industry problem.

dera
04-06-2019, 03:32 PM
That, how hard is this, instead of the 2-year-old excuse that they can't do anything and their hands are tied.

Instead, we see communications for our union dues used for free alcohol and food, as part of the "fun" part of our dues at work.

Newsflash, I don't give a rat ass about free booze and food, do something that will at least attempt net improvements for the pilot group as a whole instead of a certain group.

And stop telling us you can't do anything ...

You're forgetting one thing about union motives.

Most of them are close to flowing.
Whats the best way to ensure company doesnt start throttling the flow?
Yep. Make sure new hires are showing up, and that you dont end up in a ****list that prevents you from flowing.
That's a conflict of interest right there.

MD-11Loader
04-06-2019, 04:17 PM
You're forgetting one thing about union motives.

Most of them are close to flowing.
Whats the best way to ensure company doesnt start throttling the flow?
Yep. Make sure new hires are showing up, and that you dont end up in a ****list that prevents you from flowing.
That's a conflict of interest right there.

The chairman flows at the end of the year. The EA and Vice Chair are in the L10-11 group and have a while to go.

Jackson28
04-06-2019, 04:20 PM
You're forgetting one thing about union motives.

Most of them are close to flowing.
Whats the best way to ensure company doesnt start throttling the flow?
Yep. Make sure new hires are showing up, and that you dont end up in a ****list that prevents you from flowing.
That's a conflict of interest right there.

I could not agree more with you, hence I personally think we would be better off with a change in Leadership or even Union that has the interest of the pilot group as a whole in mind and not just short term goals for a few.

EnyFlyr
04-06-2019, 04:29 PM
You're forgetting one thing about union motives.

Most of them are close to flowing.
Whats the best way to ensure company doesnt start throttling the flow?
Yep. Make sure new hires are showing up, and that you dont end up in a ****list that prevents you from flowing.
That's a conflict of interest right there.
Sounds about right.
I personally heard an ALPA rep who flowed recently say “we dont need Endeavor rates at Envoy we need faster flow” this was around the time a grievance was settled for temp increased flow

wiz5422
04-06-2019, 04:36 PM
Sounds about right.
I personally heard an ALPA rep who flowed recently say “we dont need Endeavor rates at Envoy we need faster flow” this was around the time a grievance was settled for temp increased flow

Honest question. Would you all sell the flow for endeavor pay rates? Get rid of the flow as it is now with only a certain percentage of guarantee interviews per month with no promise of being hired but have higher pay rates.

NoValueAviator
04-06-2019, 04:50 PM
Duh, of course not. PSA has an equivalent flow-through and just below Endeavor pay rates.

The question is how much do people value ORD and DFW bases and a lottery shot at shiny jet short reserve paradise. Is it really worth $10+/hr for 9-11 years?

Weekendwarrior2
04-06-2019, 04:54 PM
*******deleted to avoid any potential negotiations in public

cbrpilot
04-06-2019, 05:00 PM
I think we should stop discussing negotiation points on a forum which management can and almost certainly does frequent. 2 years ago as a newhire I used to roll my eyes at the comment I'm making now. Two years later and I've changed my tune. It's not worth discussing here, IMO.

pitchattitude
04-06-2019, 05:34 PM
Duh, of course not. PSA has an equivalent flow-through and just below Endeavor pay rates.

The question is how much do people value ORD and DFW bases and a lottery shot at shiny jet short reserve paradise. Is it really worth $10+/hr for 9-11 years?
The SNJ does have a $5K lower bonus.

Or call it $5K because you want DFW or shorter reserve. But most of the time 175s have been getting option of DFW or ORD, so call it what you want.

Varsity
04-06-2019, 06:00 PM
I think we should stop discussing negotiation points on a forum which management can and almost certainly does frequent. 2 years ago as a newhire I used to roll my eyes at the comment I'm making now. Two years later and I've changed my tune. It's not worth discussing here, IMO.

Yeah, because stye don't know exactly what we're thinking and saying.

They're mean as *******, but they aren't stupid.

272922
04-07-2019, 09:12 AM
ENY Pilots should just take a big chill pill because ultimately AAG isn't going to hamstring the hiring at 2 of their 3 WO carriers. Let SP do what he was appointed to do.

MD-11Loader
04-07-2019, 09:40 AM
ENY Pilots should just take a big chill pill because ultimately AAG isn't going to hamstring the hiring at 2 of their 3 WO carriers. Let SP do what he was appointed to do.

Most intelligent post yet

Jackson28
04-07-2019, 09:55 AM
ENY Pilots should just take a big chill pill because ultimately AAG isn't going to hamstring the hiring at 2 of their 3 WO carriers. Let SP do what he was appointed to do.

Then he can start with more frequent communications to the pilot group, it would go a long way.

272922
04-07-2019, 10:15 AM
Then he can start with more frequent communications to the pilot group, it would go a long way.
Have him call his counterpart at PSA to get schooled.

pitchattitude
04-07-2019, 12:35 PM
The ENY MEC just put out a communication. Check your registered ALPA email.

Once again, since this was not a “public statement” I will not repost it here.

wiz5422
04-07-2019, 12:51 PM
The ENY MEC just put out a communication. Check your registered ALPA email.

Once again, since this was not a “public statement” I will not repost it here.

Expect to be underwhelmed. Our union won't demand anything of worth even though Managment is now in a hard place with envoy leading the pack in the worst pay rates in the regional ranks when it will start to hurt hiring. Our union needs to make sure we emerge as the HIGHEST PAID REGIONAL.

pitchattitude
04-07-2019, 02:16 PM
Expect to be underwhelmed. Our union won't demand anything of worth even though Managment is now in a hard place with envoy leading the pack in the worst pay rates in the regional ranks when it will start to hurt hiring. Our union needs to make sure we emerge as the HIGHEST PAID REGIONAL.
At the risk of someone saying we “shouldn’t be negotiating in public” because management reads the forums, I think we should ask for and accept nothing less than mainline wages and work rules.

272922
04-07-2019, 02:59 PM
At the risk of someone saying we “shouldn’t be negotiating in public” because management reads the forums, I think we should ask for and accept nothing less than mainline wages and work rules.
Don't forget hookers on every overnight and cockpits that smell like unicorn farts, because those things are just as likely.

Only way you're going to get that is if you finally get regional aircraft on mainline lists.

Varsity
04-07-2019, 03:05 PM
Staple Us!

sailingfun
04-07-2019, 03:07 PM
What’s the point of belonging to a union if they, national, won’t let us band together as a pilot group and use our collective power to “encourage” the company to make changes?

You really really need to read and try and understand the railway labor act.

imthecaptainnow
04-07-2019, 03:24 PM
Sounds about right.
I personally heard an ALPA rep who flowed recently say “we dont need Endeavor rates at Envoy we need faster flow” this was around the time a grievance was settled for temp increased flow


Industry leading pay raises would be nice but I'm an advocate for a much faster flow rate. I'm not talking shaving off 6 months off pilots flow times I'm talking about taking years off.

Ijustlikeflying
04-07-2019, 03:51 PM
Industry leading pay raises would be nice but I'm an advocate for a much faster flow rate. I'm not talking shaving off 6 months off pilots flow times I'm talking about taking years off.

Why are you posting this on here. You all need to stop. Email your darn reps with your bright ideas.

uavking
04-07-2019, 04:35 PM
Industry leading pay raises would be nice but I'm an advocate for a much faster flow rate. I'm not talking shaving off 6 months off pilots flow times I'm talking about taking years off.

Dude, stop negotiating in public and take your ideas to your status rep.

uavking
04-07-2019, 04:39 PM
What’s the point of belonging to a union if they, national, won’t let us band together as a pilot group and use our collective power to “encourage” the company to make changes?

The first couple chapters of "Flying the Line, Volume I" explain why ALPA is structured the way it is, i.e. not like a traditional labor union like UAW, etc. For those who can't be bothered to read it, ALPA has a podcast series that summarizes each chapter in about 14 minute chunks.

wiz5422
04-07-2019, 05:20 PM
Dude, stop negotiating in public and take your ideas to your status rep.

Our reps won't do anything about it, hell they are to scared to rock the companies boat.

Plus we are negotiating anything, the pay rates just need to be given to us FOR NOTHING. No negotiating required. I only hope our union hold out for more then PSA, make them pay up now for their inaction.

bigtime209
04-07-2019, 05:33 PM
Our reps won't do anything about it, hell they are to scared to rock the companies boat.

Plus we are negotiating anything, the pay rates just need to be given to us FOR NOTHING. No negotiating required. I only hope our union hold out for more then PSA, make them pay up now for their inaction.

This. It's a pretty simple process. Either the company will agree to increase pay rates and get no concessions from us, or the discussion ends. This isn't a negotiation.

Squirrel27
04-07-2019, 05:39 PM
Some of you guys are posting really dumb things. You are giving the company insight into what we want and what our demands are. I'm not going to quote any of it or address any of it specifically in the hopes that you wise up and take it down.

Think about it from a management standpoint. They know exactly what we're thinking and what we want. Please, don't handcuff the leaders that are going into this.

ENH017
04-07-2019, 06:16 PM
Some of you guys are posting really dumb things. You are giving the company insight into what we want and what our demands are. I'm not going to quote any of it or address any of it specifically in the hopes that you wise up and take it down.

Think about it from a management standpoint. They know exactly what we're thinking and what we want. Please, don't handcuff the leaders that are going into this.

"Oh **** these guys want pay raises and don't want to give up any concessions. We never expected this" - Management probably

272922
04-07-2019, 06:16 PM
Some of you guys are posting really dumb things. You are giving the company insight into what we want and what our demands are. I'm not going to quote any of it or address any of it specifically in the hopes that you wise up and take it down.

Think about it from a management standpoint. They know exactly what we're thinking and what we want. Please, don't handcuff the leaders that are going into this.
Do you honestly think they didn't know BEFORE someone started keyboard warrioring on APC?

Also, what percentage of the pilot group is vocal on here? Maybe 2%? That's a really great sample size.

Squirrel27
04-07-2019, 06:22 PM
Do you honestly think they didn't know BEFORE someone started keyboard warrioring on APC?

Also, what percentage of the pilot group is vocal on here? Maybe 2%? That's a really great sample size.

Union leadership has said before that they have lost leverage because of what people have said online. Why risk it? What is the benefit of complaining on these forums?

pitchattitude
04-07-2019, 06:56 PM
Union leadership has said before that they have lost leverage because of what people have said online. Why risk it? What is the benefit of complaining on these forums?
And we should believe management about this because they are always truthful and honest?!

I’ve posted a lot of RW comments but I also take it with a grain of salt. Management may tell the truth or part of the truth or none of the truth depending on what best suits them.

I also said we should take nothing less than mainline rates and rules. Just because I said that, does that mean it’s negotiating!? I know that is ridiculous, which is why I said it.

I do agree that EVERYONE should contact the MEC, as I have, and tell them what we want. Not going to stop me from saying anything here.

Cyio
04-08-2019, 05:04 AM
Yeah I think the whole "dont discuss this here because management might see it" is a little silly in this case. Managment knows exactly what they need to do in this one because PSA has already done it, the question is the amount.

It's give the raise for no concessions or no, pretty simple. Besides, if you really think about it, it's like the same 20 people posting on this forum. We are a little club that likes to bicker with each other over semantics all day while occasionally helping the new hire who stops by for a post or two, never to be heard from again. It's not like we are holding a union meeting regarding our a new contract in the middle of DFW or anything.

RomeoBravo
04-08-2019, 05:38 AM
I think the best thing we can all do is:
-Vote when there are elections
-Be an active member if you’re not already
-Share the input you’re sharing here with your elected status reps (CA rep/FO rep/LEC members), also you can send a message to contract compliance, our negotiating committee and our MEC officials directly. Contact a P2P (they have a direct line to the MEC as well).

To find contact info log into ALPA.org go to MY MEC go to Committees and you will get everyone’s contact information.

Send them an email with what you feel they should focus on.
The time is now to get your feedback to them, if you don’t share your feedback with those in control ultimately, your complaints are in vein as you’ve effectively done absolutely nothing to help change the situation.

All feedback is welcomed. Keep it professional.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

buddies8
04-08-2019, 12:47 PM
Industry leading pay raises would be nice but I'm an advocate for a much faster flow rate. I'm not talking shaving off 6 months off pilots flow times I'm talking about taking years off.

First of all, envoy does not decide unilaterally on increasing flow, that is up to aag to decide, know that first.
Second, you will not see increase in flow to where it effects the other w/o regionals. Know that second.
Third, your flow is tied to an aa new hire class, just say for whatever reason, aa decides to stop hiring for 12 months, what does your increased flow get you, not much.
Fourth, throwing pay raises to the side for a faster flow, what you going to do when flow stops, argue for better pay because you are stuck here now, that wont fly with aag.

You better be careful what you ask for because you seem as one who wont be able to livec.dwith what he asked for when things go south.
But what do I know.

MD-11Loader
04-08-2019, 01:11 PM
I want the snack baskets from Compass, the restriction in FM-1 prohibiting lighted wheels on luggage removed, beards, backpacks, a GD Slurpee machine in every crew room, and a La Quinta in every city!

BigZ
04-08-2019, 01:39 PM
I want the snack baskets from Compass, the restriction in FM-1 prohibiting lighted wheels on luggage removed, beards, backpacks, a GD Slurpee machine in every crew room, and a La Quinta in every city!
Hell do you need lighted wheels on a backpack for? Keep it real. And put the GD Slurpee machine at the front of the list.

UncreativeUser
04-08-2019, 02:26 PM
I want the snack baskets from Compass, the restriction in FM-1 prohibiting lighted wheels on luggage removed, beards, backpacks, a GD Slurpee machine in every crew room, and a La Quinta in every city!



No joke a well trimmed and styled beard would be awesome


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

MD-11Loader
04-08-2019, 03:06 PM
Hell do you need lighted wheels on a backpack for? Keep it real. And put the GD Slurpee machine at the front of the list.

I want lighted wheels on my rollaboard, and a backpack to be slung over my should with my hammock and sleeping bag attached to it. And of course the Slurpee machine is top priority.

BigZ
04-08-2019, 03:14 PM
I want lighted wheels on my rollaboard, and a backpack to be slung over my should with my hammock and sleeping bag attached to it. And of course the Slurpee machine is top priority.

Typically not big on slurpees, but now I want one.

TeeRainPULup
04-08-2019, 03:41 PM
Typically not big on slurpees, but now I want one.

For us big boys I would like a sugar free slurpee option

Naviator
04-08-2019, 04:07 PM
For us big boys I would like a sugar free slurpee option

Forget slurpees I want autodog!

MD-11Loader
04-08-2019, 04:32 PM
For us big boys I would like a sugar free slurpee option

Noted. I will see if I can find someone to forward this to the NC so that they can talk to RW, DT, CP, and RN about it.

NoValueAviator
04-08-2019, 04:34 PM
Had to google autodog lol, I think that would kind of thing would be more difficult than a pay raise honestly. Instead of just convincing them they can’t get anymore dumb CFIs to warm the right seats of their 175s, you’d have to convince them not to hate us

moon
04-08-2019, 04:58 PM
Give me casual Fridays. We can wear our old twin hill uniforms.

mketch11
04-08-2019, 06:48 PM
Give me casual Fridays. We can wear our old twin hill uniforms.

HA!

On another note, why can’t the pilot group vote on all the LOA’s? It is 2019

Cujo665
04-09-2019, 05:21 PM
Some of you guys are posting really dumb things. You are giving the company insight into what we want and what our demands are. I'm not going to quote any of it or address any of it specifically in the hopes that you wise up and take it down.

Think about it from a management standpoint. They know exactly what we're thinking and what we want. Please, don't handcuff the leaders that are going into this.

Yep, just like they knew the TA would pass......

76% no....

You’re giving them way too much credit. They actually work in reverse. If they aren’t hearing complaining then there are more concessions to be had.

Cujo665
04-09-2019, 05:25 PM
HA!

On another note, why can’t the pilot group vote on all the LOA’s? It is 2019

What? And the MEC chairman give up that power?

Here’s the argument you’ll hear.... if they offer something that we know they way way undervalued... if we had to delay for even the 10 days for an MEC vote, let alone a full pilot vote, they’d realize their mistake and pull the deal. There is some validity to that argument. Personally I think it should only be used when the gains are so huge, that delaying would be a bad idea. Otherwise I’d say post 10 days for an MEC vote, and if it changes existing CBA, a pilot vote. Currently the pilots can ratify a CBA, then the MEC can change every single detail one LOA at a time without a pilot vote. That shouldn’t be.

But, a quick grab LOA is exactly how I got the NY base closure deal... whole deal was done in 20 minutes. Just kept saying no, even when our lawyers said that was the best there was. Adam and I went in the room directly, told them what we wanted, they said no, we got up to leave. We got our deal, our way, on the way out. Lawyers were shocked we got it. We agreed, shook hands then left the lawyers to hash out the details on paper for our review. The first 18 minutes was the lawyers acting as go between three times with three different deals, Adam and me saying no.... finally the lawyers said you two go tell them. We did.

ALPA plays fairly, starting at the 50 yard line expecting the company to meet them at half field and work from there. The company doesn’t, they start in the parking lot, and ALPA still starts at the 50 instead of starting out in our parking lot....

company cursed me for months over that NY deal saying it cost them too much, and all the positive space travel created problems wth AA negotiations with APA. Chairman signed it right away. It did however make the base closure as painless as possible for my pilots.

As a side note, we told them then that closing it was a mistake and they’d be back within the year. The base reopened one year and one month later.....

SilentLurker
04-09-2019, 05:26 PM
HA!



On another note, why can’t the pilot group vote on all the LOA’s? It is 2019



This pilots group will not use their smart phone to vote on Reps when asked.

People will be quick to yap their mouth on APC, but not vote. That is just where we are. I personally rather this new age pilot group where majority are only here for the flow in 6-9 years not vote on any LOA’s yet. Majority have been here less than 3yrs. We have lost a lot of strength due to flow. The company banks on that to pay dividends long term.

buddies8
04-09-2019, 05:33 PM
So true. Apathy at best.
Wonder what they will say when others are flowing to aa making minimum 20 percent more pay and better qol.
They cannot see past their own nose.