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View Full Version : New Hire Reserve


morerudder69
04-21-2019, 06:53 PM
What is the most junior date of hire line/composite lineholder on the 145/175 for ORD/DFW?


rld1k
04-21-2019, 06:58 PM
Don't come here

Jackson28
04-21-2019, 07:10 PM
Why would you come to Envoy, when other WO aka PSA pays you $1000 more per month ???


Voski
04-21-2019, 07:14 PM
Why would you come to Envoy, when other WO aka PSA pays you $1000 more per month ???

Quoted for Emphasis.

dera
04-21-2019, 07:14 PM
What is the most junior date of hire line/composite lineholder on the 145/175 for ORD/DFW?

DFW 175 FO Composite 1/2019 hire, 11/2018 for hard line.

^^ this just to answer his question. The previous comments are still valid though, unless you live in base. No regional is worth commuting for.

morerudder69
04-21-2019, 07:25 PM
this isnt a PSA thread or a thread about commuting.. its a simple question. If you do not have the answer do not reply.

MD-11Loader
04-21-2019, 07:55 PM
this isnt a PSA thread or a thread about commuting.. its a simple question. If you do not have the answer do not reply.

Not even working here and youíre already a douche. Go somewhere else that has a decent contract with good pay. Skywest has a DFW base.

morerudder69
04-21-2019, 08:09 PM
lol yes im the douche calling people names. it was a simple question. if you hate your job so much you have to actively persuade people not to come then quit.

Squirrel27
04-21-2019, 08:14 PM
lol yes im the douche calling people names. it was a simple question. if you hate your job so much you have to actively persuade people not to come then quit.

You don't sound like somebody that is very fun to spend a 4 day trip with...

That being said, they're not actively persuading people to not come here. Some people on this board have been around for a long time, through many ups and downs in the industry, and have a lot of experience dealing with the industry. They're trying to impart some wisdom and say that there are other places offering much better deals than we are right now. Sometimes that is hard to see from an outsider's perspective, but could be very valuable information. In this case, $1000 per month valuable.

Doesn't hurt to at least listen to what the locals are trying to say.

tonsterboy5
04-21-2019, 08:14 PM
DFW 175 FO Composite 1/2019 hire, 11/2018 for hard line.

^^ this just to answer his question. The previous comments are still valid though, unless you live in base. No regional is worth commuting for.

This isnít bad at all, at Air Wisky 1/19 hires are just getting into the sim. This is at a place once known for fast training

morerudder69
04-21-2019, 08:17 PM
You don't sound like somebody that is very fun to spend a 4 day trip with...

That being said, they're not actively persuading people to not come here. Some people on this board have been around for a long time, through many ups and downs in the industry, and have a lot of experience dealing with the industry. They're trying to impart some wisdom and say that there are other places offering much better deals than we are right now. Sometimes that is hard to see from an outsider's perspective, but could be very valuable information. In this case, $1000 per month valuable.

Doesn't hurt to at least listen to what the locals are trying to say.

there are literally hundreds of posts about PSA on envoy page and others. I did not ask any questions about PSA. It was a simple question, how long reserve is for a new hire on the different fleets and bases. There are some threads about reserve but they are not very current. But yes, I'm the a$$h0le for asking people to stay on topic when theres 4 other PSA threads and get called a douche for asking a simple question. Also, how are they not actively persuading me not to come when literally the first reply is "dont come here" then "go to PSA" then "emphasis added"? Again, if you think your job is so bad, then quit.

dera
04-21-2019, 08:28 PM
there are literally hundreds of posts about PSA on envoy page and others. I did not ask any questions about PSA. It was a simple question, how long reserve is for a new hire on the different fleets and bases. There are some threads about reserve but they are not very current. But yes, I'm the a$$h0le for asking people to stay on topic when theres 4 other PSA threads and get called a douche for asking a simple question. Also, how are they not actively persuading me not to come when literally the first reply is "dont come here" then "go to PSA" then "emphasis added"? Again, if you think your job is so bad, then quit.

You are asking a question about moving targets.

Right now, in DFW 175 FO, reserve is very, very short, and is going to stay that way for a while based on the line predictions. New planes and growth, so good times for everyone.
ORD 175 hard line went to a 9/2018 hire.

On the 145, the fleet is "fully staffed", so the movement comes from upgrades and not growth. With seasonal fleet movement between bases, it is not an easy question to answer.

As I am not on the 145, I can't give actual answers but I can give you the "worst case scenario": DFW 145 theoretical junior lineholder is a 1/2018 hire, and ORD 145 is 9/2018 hire.

BigZ
04-21-2019, 08:31 PM
Again, if you think your job is so bad, then quit.
You are being told that currently elsewhere is better.
Datapoint - here's one. CRJ relief line (no composite on the CRJ) for May went to October/November 2017 hire.

morerudder69
04-21-2019, 08:32 PM
You are asking a question about moving targets.

Right now, in DFW 175 FO, reserve is very, very short, and is going to stay that way for a while based on the line predictions. New planes and growth, so good times for everyone.
ORD 175 hard line went to a 9/2018 hire.

On the 145, the fleet is "fully staffed", so the movement comes from upgrades and not growth. With seasonal fleet movement between bases, it is not an easy question to answer.

As I am not on the 145, I can't give actual answers but I can give you the "worst case scenario": DFW 145 theoretical junior lineholder is a 1/2018 hire, and ORD 145 is 9/2018 hire.

Thank you. I appreciate the response. I know reserve time is always changing, I just wanted to know what the current time was.

BigZ
04-21-2019, 08:32 PM
and ORD 145 is 9/2018 hire.
Which, if the case, is a recent improvement. Was 1/2018 hire just couple of months ago.

morerudder69
04-21-2019, 08:33 PM
You are being told that currently elsewhere is better.
Datapoint - here's one. CRJ relief line (no composite on the CRJ) for May went to October/November 2017 hire.

And for the third time, I didnt ask about other regionals. I asked about reserve times. So again, if you hate your job so much and you think the grass is greener somewhere else, then quit. I just think its funny how you see the same 10 people posting on the envoy page every day making it seem like the sky is falling down and get triggered when you call them out to stop complaining and stay on topic.

dera
04-21-2019, 08:37 PM
Which, if the case, is a recent improvement. Was 1/2018 hire just couple of months ago.

This was the "worst case" scenario for May (assuming no-one bids reserve on purpose), I haven't seen an actual 3XP. 136 lines (hard+cmp), nr. 136 FO is a 9/2018 hire. This was based on the union seniority list so reality likely is a bit better.

Jackson28
04-21-2019, 08:52 PM
I can't wait for you to come on board, just to get the 145 instead of the 175 ... :D ...

BigZ
04-21-2019, 08:53 PM
And for the third time, I didnt ask about other regionals. I asked about reserve times. So again, if you hate your job so much and you think the grass is greener somewhere else, then quit. I just think its funny how you see the same 10 people posting on the envoy page every day making it seem like the sky is falling down and get triggered when you call them out to stop complaining and stay on topic.
For those that are feeling slow:

No, we don't hate our job so much that we all should quit. Some, however, do - mostly after the first year, when the sign-on bonus become prorated, or the second year, when you don't have to pay it back.
I was pointing out the fact that the comments above were of the "elsewhere is currently better" variety.

As mentioned in the other threads, your first day of indoc is a Russian roulette - you may end up on a fleet where the reserves are short and life is great, or you may not. FOs are seatlocked until upgrade here, so you get what you get and that shapes your first 2-3 years here.
All you need to know coming here is if the 175 is available pick that. If not - it doesn't matter what the reserve times for ORD 145 are now. Used to get 4 months off due to sims, then short reserve, then one year of reserve, then waiting half a year to even transfer to ORD, then....

dera
04-21-2019, 09:04 PM
Here's the deal: Envoy isn't a bad place, if you live in base. If you commute, Envoy doesn't have much to offer. For commuters wanting flow, PSA is a much better deal, for now.
Things might change weekly, so place your bets accordingly.

morerudder69
04-21-2019, 09:22 PM
I can't wait for you to come on board, just to get the 145 instead of the 175 ... :D ...

Oh no I'm getting a minimum guaranteed pay and 21k up front to fly a jet for half the days each month, woe is me. I might as well spare myself the misery and jump off a bridge
/s

smtx123
04-21-2019, 09:26 PM
You are asking a question about moving targets.

Right now, in DFW 175 FO, reserve is very, very short, and is going to stay that way for a while based on the line predictions. New planes and growth, so good times for everyone.
ORD 175 hard line went to a 9/2018 hire.

On the 145, the fleet is "fully staffed", so the movement comes from upgrades and not growth. With seasonal fleet movement between bases, it is not an easy question to answer.

As I am not on the 145, I can't give actual answers but I can give you the "worst case scenario": DFW 145 theoretical junior lineholder is a 1/2018 hire, and ORD 145 is 9/2018 hire.
Iím still trying to figure out all this stuff. Where in DECS do you go to see the junior lineholders for base and aircraft?

dera
04-21-2019, 09:43 PM
Iím still trying to figure out all this stuff. Where in DECS do you go to see the junior lineholders for base and aircraft?

There's no universal command to show all that, it takes some figuring out.

3XP shows you bid awards for your seat. Look up who was the most junior pilot who got an award with a lower number than the highest CMP or hard line in the bid package. Then look up the seniority list to see their date of hire.

TeeRainPULup
04-21-2019, 10:02 PM
Oh no I'm getting a minimum guaranteed pay and 21k up front to fly a jet for half the days each month, woe is me. I might as well spare myself the misery and jump off a bridge
/s

Be the solution. Not the problem. Guaranteed you will be next LGA chief, because he or she will be in the next all 145 offered class. Mark my words.

Jackson28
04-21-2019, 11:33 PM
Oh no I'm getting a minimum guaranteed pay and 21k up front to fly a jet for half the days each month, woe is me. I might as well spare myself the misery and jump off a bridge
/s

Might want to do your homework before you spout out nonsense, lets see how much of that 21 k are left after they took the taxes out and yeah that 900 bucks a pay period is going to go really far, but of course I am sure you have a space in mom's basement, in that case, Welcome!

Jackson28
04-21-2019, 11:34 PM
Be the solution. Not the problem. Guaranteed you will be next LGA chief, because he or she will be in the next all 145 offered class. Mark my words.

You know it ... :D

morerudder69
04-22-2019, 01:44 AM
Might want to do your homework before you spout out nonsense, lets see how much of that 21 k are left after they took the taxes out and yeah that 900 bucks a pay period is going to go really far, but of course I am sure you have a space in mom's basement, in that case, Welcome!

Lol you're obviously a very bitter, probably 145, FO. You're on every thread about how much you hate the company, so again just leave or stop trying so hard to be a troll, and failing.

morerudder69
04-22-2019, 02:07 AM
Might want to do your homework before you spout out nonsense, lets see how much of that 21 k are left after they took the taxes out and yeah that 900 bucks a pay period is going to go really far, but of course I am sure you have a space in mom's basement, in that case, Welcome!

Also not sure how I'm spouting out nonsense, or what I said is incorrect. Obviously you get taxed on whatever you get paid. Doesn't change the fact that they hand you that check on day 1. They're not the ones taking out the taxes, that's the federal and state governments. Which next tax year you'd probably see some of that amount back anyway depending on your tax bracket. And love the classic mom's basement response when confronted with facts you don't like.

MD-11Loader
04-22-2019, 03:52 AM
Lol you're obviously a very bitter, probably 145, FO. You're on every thread about how much you hate the company, so again just leave or stop trying so hard to be a troll, and failing.

I wonder which recruiter you have been suckling from? Youíve had way too much kool-aide already. You and Swayne should get together and make a super-baby who bleeds for Envoy.

BTW, your minimum days off on reserve is 11 and thatís what youíll get. If youíre commuting then youíll be assigned RAP 1 which means you have to come in the night before, so now youíre down to 7 which is less than a regular 9-5 job. I hope you do come here and quickly realize the gravity of your error. Thereís only two companies with a worse contract than us.

Do yourself a favor and go to somewhere that will pay you for being a professional rather than rake you over the coals the way our petty management does. Theyíre all super-lifers who gave up the chance to get out a long time ago.

moon
04-22-2019, 04:22 AM
Why does this topic get a new thread every 3 weeks.

Cyio
04-22-2019, 04:34 AM
This thread should have stopped with the first reply to it. This person, like so many others, is being sold fools gold.

I understand the bonus is great, it is, but that money is being given for a reason. This company doesn't give much away for free, especially a sum that large so imagine what that money must be buying? What is it covering up? Trust me, that money is there to get you in the door but come year two when it goes away, well then reality sets in.

If you are young, non-cadet or prior 121, you will get the 145 most likely. Sure you could roll the dice and get lucky, but you will need to get lucky.
NoValueAviator should be able to answer the DFW145 times, but I think they are over a year.

Do yourself a favor and look elsewhere before coming here, things are not great right now. If you still choose to come here and its the only fit for you, well good luck and welcome aboard, just know that you will probably want to get a new name here before you start complaining down the road. As for the comment about the same 10 people here, yes you are correct, we have a vocal group of regular posters, much like any other forum does. However, this is a main site for new people to come and look around at airlines and it is viewed as a responsibility by some to make sure that truthful and realistic information is spread.

rld1k
04-22-2019, 05:36 AM
Envoy recruiting comes on this page to cheerlead for the company. Just realize that when you see people blowing rainbows up your ass about this place

BIueSideUp
04-22-2019, 06:15 AM
Oh no I'm getting a minimum guaranteed pay and 21k up front to fly a jet for half the days each month, woe is me. I might as well spare myself the misery and jump off a bridge
/s

Shoot I feel the same about everyone that comes into this with this type of attitude. The fact that he/she's asking about reserve time tells you he/she doesn't know what he thinks he/she does. And, he/she's an ********* about it too so I have no sympathy. I enjoy the the thought of these types coming here and hating themselves for the decision. Let them fall into the pit with us that we may stand upon them.

Pedro4President
04-22-2019, 06:51 AM
The funny thing is the people saying not to come here decided to come here when the conditions were worse. Envoy hasnít gotten worse over the last four years. Itís actually improved significantly. The fact is other airlines have drastically improved to the point it makes Envoy seem like MESA.

But at least we have flow.

smtx123
04-22-2019, 07:31 AM
There's no universal command to show all that, it takes some figuring out.

3XP shows you bid awards for your seat. Look up who was the most junior pilot who got an award with a lower number than the highest CMP or hard line in the bid package. Then look up the seniority list to see their date of hire.
Yeah Iíve done that, whatís the command to see other bases and aircraft?

morerudder69
04-22-2019, 07:55 AM
Lol I never once cheerleaded for envoy or said it was a great company. The original question was reserve time, that's it. Then all the miserable folks come to say how much they hate the company but then get defensive when they're told if they hate it that much then to quit.

Cyio
04-22-2019, 08:05 AM
Lol I never once cheerleaded for envoy or said it was a great company. The original question was reserve time, that's it. Then all the miserable folks come to say how much they hate the company but then get defensive when they're told if they hate it that much then to quit.

OK you have your answer, so lets all move on from it. Good luck to you.

Cyio
04-22-2019, 08:07 AM
The funny thing is the people saying not to come here decided to come here when the conditions were worse. Envoy hasnít gotten worse over the last four years. Itís actually improved significantly. The fact is other airlines have drastically improved to the point it makes Envoy seem like MESA.

But at least we have flow.

Well, not really. Other then the captain pay on award, not much has changed since I have been here. I chose to come here because I honestly felt that the growth would speed upgrade and movement, which it has. However, that benefit has changed as the wave has come and gone, making the now crappy qol and pay a greater deterrent for a new hire. The suck isn't worth it anymore.

Inclined plane
04-22-2019, 08:18 AM
Lol I never once cheerleaded for envoy or said it was a great company. The original question was reserve time, that's it. Then all the miserable folks come to say how much they hate the company but then get defensive when they're told if they hate it that much then to quit.



Your SA seems lacking. One should expect all the ďdonít come hereĒ responses during a time when all here are quite literally waiting patiently to hear whether or not we are getting raises. So when one asks about reserve times, the answers you can expect from (almost everyone) will be: ďoh reserve times? Let me see....currently on the 145 the junior line holder is...donít come here. And on the175 heavy, let me check.... oh Iím seeing itís....donít come here.
Itís kinda funny to read your defensive posts on here as a reaction. I think everyone is just like, that dude doesnít get it. (Low SA). Just expect the pushback and donít take offense. No need to refute it. Itís simply your future peers trying to get the semblance of some kind of advantage over management by thwarting potential new hires, during a very critical couple of weeks that directly concerns their pay. Take or leave this advice obviously, itís your discretion. I realize itís not my concern, but Iím the kind of guy that will let you know if youíve got a piece of salad in your teeth, when you didnít know about. Hopefully your situational awareness is restored. If not, all good. Have a nice one.


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envoy1
04-22-2019, 08:42 AM
You Envoy cheerleaders have guzzled the kool aid over there far and away more than any other regional pilot. It has totally taken any business acumen and common sense and dumped it every time you swig from the Envoy kool aid spigot.

You've got the flow? So what? Who wants to be miserable working at the new Mesa for 9 years just to flow to the crappiest legacy airline out there, that by the way will likely file another bankruptcy in the not too distant future. Management has seriously cheapened the product and still manage to make far less profit than even the LCCs. Didn't Doug promise that a "bad" year they would make at least 3 billion? Looks like they barely managed to hit that last year and will likely fall far short this year.

Jackson28
04-22-2019, 08:44 AM
The funny thing is the people saying not to come here decided to come here when the conditions were worse. Envoy hasnít gotten worse over the last four years. Itís actually improved significantly. The fact is other airlines have drastically improved to the point it makes Envoy seem like MESA.

But at least we have flow.

That flow comment made me laugh so hard ... thank you for that.
New hires will be like, 9 years, that's not what recruiting said ... lol

morerudder69
04-22-2019, 09:14 AM
That flow comment made me laugh so hard ... thank you for that.
New hires will be like, 9 years, that's not what recruiting said ... lol

Seriously why have you not left envoy yet if you're this pessimistic about them? Lol you guys are like spamming refresh on the forums every 10 minutes just to tell everyone how much you hate it.

TeeRainPULup
04-22-2019, 11:09 AM
Seriously why have you not left envoy yet if you're this pessimistic about them? Lol you guys are like spamming refresh on the forums every 10 minutes just to tell everyone how much you hate it.

I give you 4 months here after you get the 145 slot. You ll be changing your handle so you can B!tch about envoy.

pitchattitude
04-22-2019, 11:15 AM
Seriously why have you not left envoy yet if you're this pessimistic about them? Lol you guys are like spamming refresh on the forums every 10 minutes just to tell everyone how much you hate it.
Grasshopper. You are yet young and inexperienced in the ways of 121.

As much as there is suck factor, to give up what little ground you have gained to make a lateral move is usually just not worth it. A lot of pain and time out of your life. You really have to be moving up to at least a LCC.

The issue is that Envoy COULD be much better but has once again quickly fallen behind to be trailing the pack. As long as KoolAid drinkers keep cheer leading people with blinders to come here, it wonít improve.

Cyio
04-22-2019, 11:32 AM
Grasshopper. You are yet young and inexperienced in the ways of 121.

As much as there is suck factor, to give up what little ground you have gained to make a lateral move is usually just not worth it. A lot of pain and time out of your life. You really have to be moving up to at least a LCC.

The issue is that Envoy COULD be much better but has once again quickly fallen behind to be trailing the pack. As long as KoolAid drinkers keep cheer leading people with blinders to come here, it wonít improve.
Exactly, as much as we have issues, I sure as hell dont want to start over at another regional. That would be stupid unless I had very significant reasons, such as 2/3 leg commutes, family issues etc. This is the reason the airlines dont want a single nationwide seniority list because if it was easy to switch airlines, they would lose their negotiation tools.

Seriously why have you not left envoy yet if you're this pessimistic about them? Lol you guys are like spamming refresh on the forums every 10 minutes just to tell everyone how much you hate it.
See above and really, not that hard to check a forum on a phone. Same as someone checking FB, IG etc, which I dont, so this is a place I check often.

That flow comment made me laugh so hard ... thank you for that.New hires will be like, 9 years, that's not what recruiting said ... lol
Just had this happen recently. The other pilot and I were discussing flow in front of a JS that was fairly new and the whole time we kept mentioning a nine year flow. They had this puzzled look in their eyes. I felt bad having to be the one to break the news to them, although I did hold out a small amount of faith that we have attrition at record rates that will make up some of that time for them.

pitchattitude
04-22-2019, 12:16 PM
Just had this happen recently. The other pilot and I were discussing flow in front of a JS that was fairly new and the whole time we kept mentioning a nine year flow. They had this puzzled look in their eyes. I felt bad having to be the one to break the news to them, although I did hold out a small amount of faith that we have attrition at record rates that will make up some of that time for them.
The company continues to advertise 5.5-6 year flow. There is definitely a fair amount of attrition the first year or so with people that donít make it through, decide itís not for them or maybe got a call from their preferred employer. But that only shaves a few months off. I do believe most peopleís flow will be slightly less than the Union number, but a LOT longer than the company KoolAid number.

UncreativeUser
04-22-2019, 02:17 PM
You guys all act on here as if weíre not allowed to apply elsewhere just like any other regional and weíre doomed to wait for the flow


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moon
04-22-2019, 02:26 PM
You guys all act on here as if weíre not allowed to apply elsewhere just like any other regional and weíre doomed to wait for the flow


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That's not what people are saying. They are saying why go to envoy when there better options out there while you work towards getting hired by a major or LCC. If someone rather make 20k less for the exact same job. Well that's on them.

Cyio
04-22-2019, 02:52 PM
That's not what people are saying. They are saying why go to envoy when there better options out there while you work towards getting hired by a major or LCC. If someone rather make 20k less for the exact same job. Well that's on them.
This. If I went to ENdevor I would be making 20k more a year for the 6 or so years I will be here, ASSUMING nothing bad happens and I get stuck at a regional. Thatís 120k extra that I could use to pay cash for college degree, pay off large portion of my house, pay off all of my cars, pay all of kids college education etc. When you start looking at it that way the flows value is diminished a lot.

Now take the worst case scenario and the flow stops. I would much rather be making 20k more a year as a regional pilot. Had the pay rates been what they are now I would never have come to Envoy.

Hence why I tell people that they really need to look hard at other places as Envoy is only the ďrightĒ choice for a smaller and smaller group.

dera
04-22-2019, 03:08 PM
This. If I went to ENdevor I would be making 20k more a year for the 6 or so years I will be here, ASSUMING nothing bad happens and I get stuck at a regional. Thatís 120k extra that I could use to pay cash for college degree, pay off large portion of my house, pay off all of my cars, pay all of kids college education etc. When you start looking at it that way the flows value is diminished a lot.

Now take the worst case scenario and the flow stops. I would much rather be making 20k more a year as a regional pilot. Had the pay rates been what they are now I would never have come to Envoy.

Hence why I tell people that they really need to look hard at other places as Envoy is only the ďrightĒ choice for a smaller and smaller group.

As long as everyone is well informed and don't come based solely on the recruiting propaganda, nothing wrong with Envoy. Just like you say, it's a good deal for some.
Would I commute for an extra $20k/year? Not in a million years. Would I commute to Envoy? Heck no.
We all have our priorities.

UncreativeUser
04-22-2019, 03:12 PM
This. If I went to ENdevor I would be making 20k more a year for the 6 or so years I will be here, ASSUMING nothing bad happens and I get stuck at a regional. Thatís 120k extra that I could use to pay cash for college degree, pay off large portion of my house, pay off all of my cars, pay all of kids college education etc. When you start looking at it that way the flows value is diminished a lot.



Now take the worst case scenario and the flow stops. I would much rather be making 20k more a year as a regional pilot. Had the pay rates been what they are now I would never have come to Envoy.



Hence why I tell people that they really need to look hard at other places as Envoy is only the ďrightĒ choice for a smaller and smaller group.



True, well said


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Jackson28
04-22-2019, 06:14 PM
As long as everyone is well informed and don't come based solely on the recruiting propaganda, nothing wrong with Envoy. Just like you say, it's a good deal for some.
Would I commute for an extra $20k/year? Not in a million years. Would I commute to Envoy? Heck no.
We all have our priorities.

Well said, I agree 100%