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View Full Version : Poor Union Communication


ERAUAV8TR
04-22-2019, 04:44 PM
Pay negotiations...industry leading?

Big Flow delays ahead

QOL issues

Reserv Issues

Employee Morale all time low

Flight Attendant contract / pay issues

Where is the union communications on these issues to the pilot group?


dera
04-22-2019, 04:54 PM
Big Flow delays ahead



You just made that up based on nothing but forum gossip.

ERAUAV8TR
04-22-2019, 04:59 PM
You just made that up based on nothing but forum gossip.

Nope. Super 80 and summer issues. Well known!


dera
04-22-2019, 05:05 PM
Nope. Super 80 and summer issues. Well known!

Gsus man, you said "big" and then talk about like a few months.

MD-11Loader
04-22-2019, 05:11 PM
Pay negotiations...industry leading?

Big Flow delays ahead

QOL issues

Reserv Issues

Employee Morale all time low

Flight Attendant contract / pay issues

Where is the union communications on these issues to the pilot group?

What committee do you volunteer on?

Omniscient
04-22-2019, 05:16 PM
What committee do you volunteer on?

Regardless if you like the tone of questioning or not, a dues member in good standing has the right to ask questions, no matter if they volunteer or not.

How effective would a union be if only those who volunteer on committees could express dissatisfaction with the MEC? Seems like it would be a nice little echo chamber.


But then again, his screen name is "ERAUAV8TR," so he does have it coming...for sure

use2fly
04-22-2019, 05:18 PM
You may not have noticed but the union has a lot going on. Literally at this very moment.

ERAUAV8TR
04-22-2019, 05:31 PM
Gsus man, you said "big" and then talk about like a few months.

Ummm almost 30 super 80ís....that is BIG...thank you! Might be bigger than the furlough callback list delay!!!!

dera
04-22-2019, 05:42 PM
Ummm almost 30 super 80ís....that is BIG...thank you! Might be bigger than the furlough callback list delay!!!!

You're really that simple that you think AA will just stop hiring for a long time because of that?

SkylineAviation
04-22-2019, 05:48 PM
You're really that simple that you think AA will just stop hiring for a long time because of that?

Itís been changing on the projections but looks like as of now August 0 flows. Best case scenario has around 10. September likely similar. Normal classes and flows supposed to resume in October.

dera
04-22-2019, 05:50 PM
Itís been changing on the projections but looks like as of now August 0 flows. Best case scenario has around 10. September likely similar. Normal classes and flows supposed to resume in October.

That's not a "big" delay.

SkylineAviation
04-22-2019, 05:51 PM
That's not a "big" delay.

Call it how you want. Iím just pointing out whatís currently projected. Of course subject to change

bigtime209
04-22-2019, 05:56 PM
Itís been changing on the projections but looks like as of now August 0 flows. Best case scenario has around 10. September likely similar. Normal classes and flows supposed to resume in October.

Source?

/10/

SkylineAviation
04-22-2019, 06:02 PM
Source?

/10/

Iím not trying to stir the pot here with bad info. But those projections are what they are as of now. Md80 displacements are whatís driving that. August will likely see the 0-10 flow. September should have some but donít know the exact numbers.

Squirrel27
04-22-2019, 06:37 PM
Iím not trying to stir the pot here with bad info. But those projections are what they are as of now. Md80 displacements are whatís driving that. August will likely see the 0-10 flow. September should have some but donít know the exact numbers.

Repeating the same information isn't listing your source. Where are you getting this information?

bigtime209
04-22-2019, 06:37 PM
Iím not trying to stir the pot here with bad info. But those projections are what they are as of now. Md80 displacements are whatís driving that. August will likely see the 0-10 flow. September should have some but donít know the exact numbers.

My question is, what is your source of these projections for AUG and SEP AA hiring? Do you have any kind of hiring data to back up these projections?

dera
04-22-2019, 06:52 PM
My question is, what is your source of these projections for AUG and SEP AA hiring? Do you have any kind of hiring data to back up these projections?

I bet those projections are as scientific as my class date predictions.

SkylineAviation
04-22-2019, 06:55 PM
My question is, what is your source of these projections for AUG and SEP AA hiring? Do you have any kind of hiring data to back up these projections?

Source comes from a spreadsheet of each pilots projected class date (or at lest the ones coming in the nearer future). As of now AA provided Envoy and therefore alpa their projections which include the 80 displacements through summer & early fall. Each class has a projection of total hires and info on flow. And as Iíve already said the data currently points to the slowdown Aug/Sept

envoy1
04-22-2019, 07:02 PM
Source comes from a spreadsheet of each pilots projected class date (or at lest the ones coming in the nearer future). As of now AA provided Envoy and therefore alpa their projections which include the 80 displacements through summer & early fall. Each class has a projection of total hires and info on flow. And as Iíve already said the data currently points to the slowdown Aug/Sept

What a dirtbag company to work for. Abhorrent working conditions and treatment all for the promise of "flow" to AA which happens to be just a big Envoy in reality.

SkylineAviation
04-25-2019, 06:31 AM
My question is, what is your source of these projections for AUG and SEP AA hiring? Do you have any kind of hiring data to back up these projections?

August now supposed to have 20 hires therefore 10 flows. Sept should have 47 hires, so probably less than 29 flows unless they let full amount go but better than what was projected at one point

rondonq1
04-25-2019, 07:44 AM
Many example here on why envoy so bad now. The harshest treatment of pilots for a flow plan show here is not working. Flow never 5 or 6 years. People flowing today hired in late 2010. 9 year flow. Can you survive this 9 years for very little money and much work with big discipline for even small infraction?

Cyio
04-25-2019, 08:14 AM
Many example here on why envoy so bad now. The harshest treatment of pilots for a flow plan show here is not working. Flow never 5 or 6 years. People flowing today hired in late 2010. 9 year flow. Can you survive this 9 years for very little money and much work with big discipline for even small infraction?

Not very easy to understand what you said here, but the flow plan does show flows getting down to 5 years for 2016 hires. Certainly we are not flowing 5-6 year people now as we are still moving through the ones that have been stuck here through BK.

I am certainly not cheerleading Envoy, but for a select few, they should see 5-6 year flows.

ag386
04-25-2019, 08:34 AM
I think the point rondon is trying to make is that there never has been a 5 or 6 year flow and aside from maybe 30 or 40 guys, there never will be a 5 or 6 year flow. AA is very good about advertising this and it goes all the way back to the 90s. Nothing has changed. Just a new group of gullible guys who think their ticket has been punched.

The flow has moved along at min numbers now for a while. None of the PPs will see anything less 8 years. After that the numbers flowing drop drastically and there are more draconian measures in place to keep a lid on the flow. Unfortunately, what many are finding after the euphoria of escaping Envoy, is aside from the bigger paycheck, nothing much has changed. Doug Parker has singlehandedly wrecked AA and he isn't going anywhere.

When you have recruiters like skyline who are down on the company, you know things are bad. I'm sure that dera along with more of the new guy cheerleaders will be along shortly to try and debunk all of this.

SkylineAviation
04-25-2019, 08:40 AM
I think the point rondon is trying to make is that there never has been a 5 or 6 year flow and aside from maybe 30 or 40 guys, there never will be a 5 or 6 year flow. AA is very good about advertising this and it goes all the way back to the 90s. Nothing has changed. Just a new group of gullible guys who think their ticket has been punched.

The flow has moved along at min numbers now for a while. None of the PPs will see anything less 8 years. After that the numbers flowing drop drastically and there are more draconian measures in place to keep a lid on the flow. Unfortunately, what many are finding after the euphoria of escaping Envoy, is aside from the bigger paycheck, nothing much has changed. Doug Parker has singlehandedly wrecked AA and he isn't going anywhere.

When you have recruiters like skyline who are down on the company, you know things are bad. I'm sure that dera along with more of the new guy cheerleaders will be along shortly to try and debunk all of this.

Haha! I wasnít even going to respond but where do you get the idea I am or ever have been a recruiter? Hereís a secret, Iíve never been a part of the recruiting department. Iím not up or down on anything, just providing numbers for upcoming hiring & flow.

Cyio
04-25-2019, 09:10 AM
I think the point rondon is trying to make is that there never has been a 5 or 6 year flow and aside from maybe 30 or 40 guys, there never will be a 5 or 6 year flow. AA is very good about advertising this and it goes all the way back to the 90s. Nothing has changed. Just a new group of gullible guys who think their ticket has been punched.

The flow has moved along at min numbers now for a while. None of the PPs will see anything less 8 years. After that the numbers flowing drop drastically and there are more draconian measures in place to keep a lid on the flow. Unfortunately, what many are finding after the euphoria of escaping Envoy, is aside from the bigger paycheck, nothing much has changed. Doug Parker has singlehandedly wrecked AA and he isn't going anywhere.

When you have recruiters like skyline who are down on the company, you know things are bad. I'm sure that dera along with more of the new guy cheerleaders will be along shortly to try and debunk all of this.

Eh, some of this I agree with, some I dont. There will be more than 40-50 that see sub six year flows, probably a few hundred. Listen, I am not proud that it is that low, but it isn't as bad as you are saying. The flow slowing after the PP's does slow for less than a year and than picks back up, all of which is accounted for in the plan.

The DP comment is spot on. I talk to a lot of mainline folks JS for the commute and they are all complaining about the same **** we are, aside from maybe crew scheduling, they all seem to say that is significantly better. DP needs to go as the company is worse off now than it has been. We are bottom metrics in virtually every category except maybe size. Its telling when Spirit ranks higher than AA.

NoValueAviator
04-25-2019, 10:30 AM
Theory: when some of the fog-a-mirror Ď16 hires flow after 5 years and have issues at AA, AA ďre-evaluatesĒ the flow.

Cyio
04-25-2019, 10:45 AM
Theory: when some of the fog-a-mirror Ď16 hires flow after 5 years and have issues at AA, AA ďre-evaluatesĒ the flow.

Why would they have issues? ?

NoValueAviator
04-25-2019, 10:57 AM
Pilot skills, study habits.

Ijustlikeflying
04-25-2019, 11:05 AM
Pilot skills, study habits.

Oh give me a break. Weíre all doing the same job. Everyone I talk to over at AA says their training is a hold your hand program compared to envoys.

Varsity
04-25-2019, 11:08 AM
Oh give me a break. Weíre all doing the same job. Everyone I talk to over at AA says their training is a hold your hand program compared to envoys.

It is, but in 2016 Envoy was hiring literally anyone and everyone.

We are still living with the consequences of it.

Ijustlikeflying
04-25-2019, 11:59 AM
It is, but in 2016 Envoy was hiring literally anyone and everyone.

We are still living with the consequences of it.

I stand corrected. Very good point. I was one of the ones hired in 2016 2017 wave and I had a lot of fellow classmates that I couldnít believe were even there...

buddies8
04-25-2019, 12:08 PM
And they probably still here

Cyio
04-25-2019, 01:31 PM
Pilot skills, study habits.
I hear worse things about new hires attitudes now than I ever did back then.

Cyio
04-25-2019, 01:33 PM
I stand corrected. Very good point. I was one of the ones hired in 2016 2017 wave and I had a lot of fellow classmates that I couldnít believe were even there...

Our class only had two and neither made it through training so in reality it doesnít matter. If you have a good attitude you will do fine. This isnít rocket science, not even close.

ninerdriver
05-02-2019, 05:25 AM
Our class only had two and neither made it through training so in reality it doesnít matter. If you have a good attitude you will do fine. This isnít rocket science, not even close.

Bring an FO isn't rocket science. Being a captain is. I shared a crashpad with an Envoy guy from that era who couldn't decide where to park his car if his life was on the line. That's not the guy I would want making decisions in the cockpit.

Cyio
05-02-2019, 07:20 AM
Bring an FO isn't rocket science. Being a captain is. I shared a crashpad with an Envoy guy from that era who couldn't decide where to park his car if his life was on the line. That's not the guy I would want making decisions in the cockpit.

I will agree that being a Captain is a lot more difficult, however cherry picking bad apples too make an argument is thin at best. There were a lot of people hired in 2016-2017 and I would say most are still here if they wanted to be here.

The way this topic talks you would think we have 500-1000 morons out on the line simply because they were hired during a specific time period, keeping their job solely out of dumb luck or something. If we go by this logic, we should be seeing huge upticks in incidents and accidents as they all start upgrading.

pitchattitude
05-02-2019, 07:37 AM
I will agree that being a Captain is a lot more difficult, however cherry picking bad apples too make an argument is thin at best. There were a lot of people hired in 2016-2017 and I would say most are still here if they wanted to be here.

The way this topic talks you would think we have 500-1000 morons out on the line simply because they were hired during a specific time period, keeping their job solely out of dumb luck or something. If we go by this logic, we should be seeing huge upticks in incidents and accidents as they all start upgrading.
There does seem to be a number of overspeeds and that type of thing.

buddies8
05-05-2019, 09:46 AM
Sssssshhhhhhhhh,
The silence is deafening.
Thank you mec for failing one more time.
Silence is managements weapon to success.

Varsity
05-05-2019, 09:54 AM
PSA has unmatched company contribution to 401k, we don't.
PSA has vacation their 1st year, we don't.
PSA has SAP, we don't.
PSA has referral bonuses, we don't.
PSA gets 75hrs min guarantee in training, we don't.
PSA gets 24hrs per diem in training, we don't.


How can we possibly cost more. Beyond me.

Voski
05-05-2019, 10:55 AM
PSA has unmatched company contribution to 401k, we don't.
PSA has vacation their 1st year, we don't.
PSA has SAP, we don't.
PSA has referral bonuses, we don't.
PSA gets 75hrs min guarantee in training, we don't.
PSA gets 24hrs per diem in training, we don't.


How can we possibly cost more. Beyond me.

bUt We HaVe OnE SeVeN FiVeS aNd A fAstEr FlOoOoW!!!!!!!!!

UncreativeUser
05-05-2019, 12:09 PM
None of the P2Pís Iíve contacted responded....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

RawHide
05-05-2019, 12:17 PM
PSA is also flowing 2014 hires

Cyio
05-05-2019, 01:04 PM
None of the P2Pís Iíve contacted responded....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sadly there are some that just get into the program and you never hear from them again.

MD-11Loader
05-05-2019, 01:45 PM
None of the P2Pís Iíve contacted responded....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Call a status rep

chrisreedrules
05-05-2019, 02:32 PM
PSA is also flowing 2014 hires

Those hired at PSA in early 2014 have essentially, ďlucked outĒ and are benefiting from being at the front of a giant growth wave. They will flow in 5 years. Those hired mid to late 2014 will flow in about 5.5-6 years from DOH and those hired early 2015 will flow in about 6-6.5 years from DOH. Beyond that the flow times start ticking up based on which hiring wave a pilot got in on.

moon
05-05-2019, 02:41 PM
Those hired at PSA in early 2014 have essentially, ďlucked outĒ and are benefiting from being at the front of a giant growth wave. They will flow in 5 years. Those hired mid to late 2014 will flow in about 5.5-6 years from DOH and those hired early 2015 will flow in about 6-6.5 years from DOH. Beyond that the flow times start ticking up based on which hiring wave a pilot got in on.

It pays to be a sellout

Soldier64
05-05-2019, 02:52 PM
None of the P2Pís Iíve contacted responded....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Iím a P2P. Feel free to send me a message.

chrisreedrules
05-05-2019, 03:13 PM
It pays to be a sellout

This topic has been discussed ad naseum. But feel free...

havick206
05-05-2019, 03:35 PM
This topic has been discussed ad naseum. But feel free...

Why not, itís the truth.

moon
05-05-2019, 04:06 PM
This topic has been discussed ad naseum. But feel free...

Don't like it don't come here and talk about PSA.

chrisreedrules
05-05-2019, 05:10 PM
Don't like it don't come here and talk about PSA.

Iím indifferent truthfully. I was merely interjecting some facts about the DOH of PSA flows. More to the point, I was getting at depending on exactly when you were hired at any particular WO will determine how fast you flow. Buddy of mine hired almost a year after I was hired at PSA is projected to flow about the same time as me...

UncreativeUser
05-05-2019, 06:26 PM
Iím indifferent truthfully. I was merely interjecting some facts about the DOH of PSA flows. More to the point, I was getting at depending on exactly when you were hired at any particular WO will determine how fast you flow. Buddy of mine hired almost a year after I was hired at PSA is projected to flow about the same time as me...



Prolly cause of outside attrition right?


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Paid2fly
05-05-2019, 09:02 PM
It pays to be a sellout




Sad, but true...

EnyFlyr
05-06-2019, 12:10 PM
So my friend over at Endeavor is a second year FO making $63/ hour, why is the union sending out an email this morning saying they are fighting for compensation similar to what PSA has received? I think we should aim higher and yes I have voiced this to them directly.

cr700
05-06-2019, 12:51 PM
So my friend over at Endeavor is a second year FO making $63/ hour, why is the union sending out an email this morning saying they are fighting for compensation similar to what PSA has received? I think we should aim higher and yes I have voiced this to them directly.

Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.

CaseTractor
05-06-2019, 12:52 PM
So my friend over at Endeavor is a second year FO making $63/ hour, why is the union sending out an email this morning saying they are fighting for compensation similar to what PSA has received? I think we should aim higher and yes I have voiced this to them directly.

Exactly.

Talking pay only equal with PSA is a bad starting point do to no efforts on QOL front. PSA as the benchmark is nuts, and playing right into AAG plans. Same problem mindset at PDT and this needs to change for both groups.

crosscheck95
05-06-2019, 12:54 PM
Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.
Is this guy ainít a company man, I donít know who is.

Varsity
05-06-2019, 12:56 PM
Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.

The flow stops in 2021.

uavking
05-06-2019, 01:02 PM
Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.

Cool story. FUPM.

pitchattitude
05-06-2019, 01:03 PM
Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.
Give it a rest, KoolAid guzzling company shill.

Voski
05-06-2019, 01:09 PM
The flow stops in 2021.

I've heard/read this before, but what's the source? Wouldn't surprise me, but wondering where people are getting this...

rld1k
05-06-2019, 01:14 PM
Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.

My bank is telling me they don't accept "industry leading flow" for a mortgage payment, what should I do?

dera
05-06-2019, 01:22 PM
My bank is telling me they don't accept "industry leading flow" for a mortgage payment, what should I do?

You should do better financial planning.

cr700
05-06-2019, 01:25 PM
My bank is telling me they don't accept "industry leading flow" for a mortgage payment, what should I do?

Sounds like somebody can't manage their money.

crosscheck95
05-06-2019, 01:55 PM
Sounds like somebody can't manage their money.

Good one man, good one..

HobGoblin
05-06-2019, 02:47 PM
I've heard/read this before, but what's the source? Wouldn't surprise me, but wondering where people are getting this...

Thereís no source or reasoning behind it, itís something one resident weirdo has been repeating on talkairline trying to make it real. Well over a thousand pilots have flowed from Envoy to AA. Who knows, it could stop in the future, but that would be probably spell the end of envoy

Cujo665
05-06-2019, 02:55 PM
Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.


Flow doesn’t put food on the table or gas in the car. As the shortage worsens you are going to have to continually be increasing wages and improving their working conditions just to keep meat in your seats... but you already know that, and have zero interest in being industry leading, only doing the minimum to squeak by. Same stupid mentality that chased away 1500 pilots and drove Eaglevoy from 3200 pilots down to 1750 pilots before you slowly started restoring what you stole during bankruptcy. Great job managing there pal......

rld1k
05-06-2019, 03:13 PM
Sounds like somebody can't manage their money.

You're doing a great job of personifying just how hostile and out of touch envoy management is towards their pilots. I hope potential new hires are reading this.

pitchattitude
05-06-2019, 03:20 PM
Sounds like somebody can't manage their money.
There has to be something to manage. Like everyone else has said, flow is not something we get paid, so nothing we can spend.

Tell your kids, donít worry, I should be able to flow sometime before nine years. Hope you donít starve to death before then.

ninerdriver
05-06-2019, 03:26 PM
Sounds like somebody got Envoyed.

Fixed it for you.

Cyio
05-06-2019, 04:34 PM
I find it hilarious that Dera and cr700 had almost the exact same response as if it came from on high.

Flow is great but does nothing to protect me in case of a financial change and the flow stops. Money in hand is worth a flow in the bush. I can do a better job protecting my future than the flow can.

highfarfast
05-06-2019, 04:45 PM
Money in hand is worth a flow in the bush.

Thank you. Iím definitely steeling that. ;)

crj700
05-06-2019, 04:57 PM
Sounds like somebody can't manage their money.


I'd like to reiterate one more time, I am not cr700!

pitchattitude
05-06-2019, 05:04 PM
I'd like to reiterate one more time, I am not cr700!

Some of us know that. Besides, CRís posts drown in KoolAid. If only he would too.

MD-11Loader
05-06-2019, 05:18 PM
Anyone notice the first letter of each paragraph? That was well played. 😂😜

highfarfast
05-06-2019, 05:23 PM
I'd like to reiterate one more time, I am not cr700!

You might consider coming back with a different username and starting over with postcount.

EnyFlyr
05-06-2019, 05:30 PM
Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.

Been out of the loop for a bit, how many are flowing this month?

Cyio
05-06-2019, 05:30 PM
Anyone notice the first letter of each paragraph? That was well played. 😂😜

Thatís awesome. Just got it.

Paid2fly
05-06-2019, 08:57 PM
Endeavor doesn't have a flow. You have to interview and the success rate is less than 50%. Envoy has a true industry leading no interview flow to the largest major airline in the world. That's something money can't buy. Your career starts day one at Envoy until you retire at AA.





Doug, is that you?

Varsity
05-06-2019, 09:33 PM
Doug, is that you?

No,

It's CW.

dera
05-06-2019, 09:36 PM
No,

It's CW.

Isn't he about to flow? You really think he cares any more?

blackbox348
05-07-2019, 09:33 AM
Anyone notice the first letter of each paragraph? That was well played. 😂😜

On can only hope that was intentional.

pitchattitude
05-07-2019, 10:30 AM
On can only hope that was intentional.
Yes. It sounds like the MEC is finally getting the message that pilots wonít give anything up. I just hope they get the message that PSA is still far from industry leading pay rates and we should be going for for much better.

wiz5422
05-07-2019, 10:50 AM
Yes. It sounds like the MEC is finally getting the message that pilots wonít give anything up. I just hope they get the message that PSA is still far from industry leading pay rates and we should be going for for much better.

"Going for Great " Isn't that the slogan AA uses? Well let's make them back it up by ponying up on pay raises.

MD-11Loader
05-07-2019, 11:13 AM
On can only hope that was intentional.

I have a feeling that it was. You donít do something like that without intent.

CaseTractor
05-07-2019, 12:18 PM
I have a feeling that it was. You donít do something like that without intent.

Yesterday's email at 8 am? It's so obvious I am missing this or looking at wrong email?

Please PM me if this is a super secret thing I am missing. Dunno what those three letters mean, although I am normally good with most acronyms.

MISOhigh
05-07-2019, 12:26 PM
Absolutely brilliant.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Captain Kirk
05-07-2019, 12:27 PM
F
u
p
m
😁

buddies8
05-07-2019, 03:10 PM
Rumor has it pay raises with catches and not equal across the board for captains.

cbrpilot
05-07-2019, 03:50 PM
Rumor has it pay raises with catches and not equal across the board for captains.

Who in particular did you hear this rumor from? And where did they hear it? Genuine questions.

Timbird
05-07-2019, 05:36 PM
Rumor has it pay raises with catches and not equal across the board for captains.

Non equal across the board for CAs would be BS and union should never accept that. Your screwing half the pilot group who chose the 145 because the pay was the same as the 175. Those pilots donít have a chance to change planes unless they were displaced. The more talk you hear, I hope they let the pilot group vote. Pilots not being able to vote, then asking the pilots to participate in the union is BS. Unless the deal is a home run, if there are any questions...vote. Like the reserve we shot down a year ago.

Ijustlikeflying
05-07-2019, 05:59 PM
Non equal across the board for CAs would be BS and union should never accept that. Your screwing half the pilot group who chose the 145 because the pay was the same as the 175. Those pilots donít have a chance to change planes unless they were displaced. The more talk you hear, I hope they let the pilot group vote. Pilots not being able to vote, then asking the pilots to participate in the union is BS. Unless the deal is a home run, if there are any questions...vote. Like the reserve we shot down a year ago.

This^^^

And we should be voting on the bag room cleaning dates too

buddies8
05-07-2019, 06:02 PM
I do not believe the line pilots will have a vote, appears it will be signed by the mec without line pilot vote.

That's how management gets what it wants and the mec goes hide till they flow.

Just an opinion

BIueSideUp
05-07-2019, 06:16 PM
Non equal across the board for CAs would be BS and union should never accept that. Your screwing half the pilot group who chose the 145 because the pay was the same as the 175. Those pilots donít have a chance to change planes unless they were displaced. The more talk you hear, I hope they let the pilot group vote. Pilots not being able to vote, then asking the pilots to participate in the union is BS. Unless the deal is a home run, if there are any questions...vote. Like the reserve we shot down a year ago.

The way this ####show runs, it's only a matter of time before a Milton comes along and Office Space's the place

ERAUAV8TR
05-07-2019, 07:27 PM
The way this ####show runs, it's only a matter of time before a Milton comes along and Office Space's the place

Now Milton, don't be greedy, let's pass it along and make sure everyone gets a piece.

Bassman1985
05-07-2019, 07:28 PM
Now Milton, don't be greedy, let's pass it along and make sure everyone gets a piece.

I was told Iíd get to flow between 5 and 6 years at a reasonable volume...

blackbox348
05-07-2019, 07:31 PM
Non equal across the board for CAs would be BS and union should never accept that. Your screwing half the pilot group who chose the 145 because the pay was the same as the 175. Those pilots donít have a chance to change planes unless they were displaced. The more talk you hear, I hope they let the pilot group vote. Pilots not being able to vote, then asking the pilots to participate in the union is BS. Unless the deal is a home run, if there are any questions...vote. Like the reserve we shot down a year ago.

Might not necessarily mean by equipment, Iíve heard rumors about the top end of the scales getting less of an improvement than those of us in the middle...

TeeRainPULup
05-07-2019, 07:53 PM
I was told Iíd get to flow between 5 and 6 years at a reasonable volume...

And I was told there would be charmin ultra soft in the crew room bathroom.

BigZ
05-07-2019, 08:44 PM
And I was told there would be charmin ultra soft in the crew room bathroom.

Speaking of which, we need to set up the Paper Towel Dispenser Preservation Society for the you know what. That thing has like a decade of Eagle history on it.

Pedro4President
05-08-2019, 04:43 AM
Non equal across the board for CAs would be BS and union should never accept that. Your screwing half the pilot group who chose the 145 because the pay was the same as the 175. Those pilots donít have a chance to change planes unless they were displaced. The more talk you hear, I hope they let the pilot group vote. Pilots not being able to vote, then asking the pilots to participate in the union is BS. Unless the deal is a home run, if there are any questions...vote. Like the reserve we shot down a year ago.

What are you talking about??

Are you worried only the 175 will get the raises? I doubt that will happen or you would have a real $=*+ Show on your hands. But like someone said before it looks like it will be more complicated than a strayforward pay bump. If there are ďwinners and losersĒ then Iíd vote no. However the winner and loser approach to our union continues to happen.

Soldier64
05-08-2019, 04:52 AM
What are you talking about??

Are you worried only the 175 will get the raises? I doubt that will happen or you would have a real $=*+ Show on your hands. But like someone said before it looks like it will be more complicated than a strayforward pay bump. If there are ďwinners and losersĒ then Iíd vote no. However the winner and loser approach to our union continues to happen.

I think heís taking the previous post saying not everyone would get the same raise as equipment. What I think that means is not every pay line by year gets say $10 an hour raise. Instead itíll be a sliding scale. I donít know but thatís my guess what got him upset.

Pedro4President
05-08-2019, 05:11 AM
I think heís taking the previous post saying not everyone would get the same raise as equipment. What I think that means is not every pay line by year gets say $10 an hour raise. Instead itíll be a sliding scale. I donít know but thatís my guess what got him upset.

Well I think there may be something to that. But we will see or not. If it does I hope six year pay is off the charts.

buddies8
05-08-2019, 05:33 AM
Yes the mec will help the company.
Pay raises for new hires. Pay raises for new captains. Screw the rest.
Kinda like last time, last year.

Cyio
05-08-2019, 06:17 AM
The way I see it, things should go as follows.

Top 10% of pilot group gets a raise, probably the highest of the pilot group. This is the lifers and this is what they want/need.

The middle of the list should get the lowest set of pay raises but add in some protections for flow, perhaps even speeding it up. This is what this group wants, to get out of here faster and know they aren't one letter away from losing the flow.

The lower say 40% should get modest pay raises with bigger QOL protections, mainly reserve improvements. This is what this groups wants and the group improvements above would benefit them as well.

As you transition up you get better pay and faster flow with better protections in place. If you want to show up as a DEC and get out, well you would be in that last group. If you are someone that came here for the flow you would get a faster flow eventually with better pay and qol of life as you stay here.

If you want to be a lifer, you have a light at the end of the tunnel offering you good solid pay to make that commitment.

To me this solves our main problems as a pilot group. Better pay for lifers, better flow protections and speed for the group closet to flowing and better qol/reserve rules and pay for the new guys.

LineUpAndPay
05-08-2019, 07:43 AM
Well I think there may be something to that. But we will see or not. If it does I hope six year pay is off the charts.this

The way I see it, things should go as follows.

Top 10% of pilot group gets a raise, probably the highest of the pilot group. This is the lifers and this is what they want/need.

The middle of the list should get the lowest set of pay raises but add in some protections for flow, perhaps even speeding it up. This is what this group wants, to get out of here faster and know they aren't one letter away from losing the flow.

The lower say 40% should get modest pay raises with bigger QOL protections, mainly reserve improvements. This is what this groups wants and the group improvements above would benefit them as well.

As you transition up you get better pay and faster flow with better protections in place. If you want to show up as a DEC and get out, well you would be in that last group. If you are someone that came here for the flow you would get a faster flow eventually with better pay and qol of life as you stay here.

If you want to be a lifer, you have a light at the end of the tunnel offering you good solid pay to make that commitment.

To me this solves our main problems as a pilot group. Better pay for lifers, better flow protections and speed for the group closet to flowing and better qol/reserve rules and pay for the new guys.

Not this

buddies8
05-08-2019, 08:13 AM
Not this, based on?

AeroEnvoy
05-08-2019, 08:26 AM
Not this, based on?

Why discriminate among our own pilot group? Why not demand industry leading pay, quality of life and improved flow for everyone and not just a select few?

buddies8
05-08-2019, 08:35 AM
Why, where were you for the last LOA.
How did that not discriminate against the pilot group and just help out the company for its ineptitude.
Let's see. Last loa awarded capt, you get Capt pay months in advance of you actually being a captain. 950 hours force upgrade, flow must be captain or at least been captain for 1 year if displaced, etc, etc..
How did the mec not discriminate to the whole pilot group while at the same time allow nothing but wins for management.
Nothing but same will happen unless the whole pilot group squeezes the mec, unfortunately.

AeroEnvoy
05-08-2019, 08:41 AM
Why, where were you for the last LOA.
How did that not discriminate against the pilot group and just help out the company for its ineptitude.
Let's see. Last loa awarded capt, you get Capt pay months in advance of you actually being a captain. 950 hours force upgrade, flow must be captain or at least been captain for 1 year if displaced, etc, etc..
How did the mec not discriminate to the whole pilot group while at the same time allow nothing but wins for management.
Nothing but same will happen unless the whole pilot group squeezes the mec, unfortunately.

Well I was captain long before that LOA but thatís irrelevant. If the last LOA was total crap because of it discriminatory nature, why would you want a repeat? I donít see why weíre selling ourselves short. Equal everything across the board for everyone and not just some.

buddies8
05-08-2019, 09:27 AM
I am not, what I am saying it has been done and appears from what's said by some on the line with people in the know are indicating something of the same. I dont support anything short of minimum 20 percent pay raise for everyone, every pilot and to put it in our CBA as new rates.
I dont support anything like the last loa.

moon
05-08-2019, 10:20 AM
I am not, what I am saying it has been done and appears from what's said by some on the line with people in the know are indicating something of the same. I dont support anything short of minimum 20 percent pay raise for everyone, every pilot and to put it in our CBA as new rates.
I dont support anything like the last loa.

Let's stop this negotiating in public.

buddies8
05-08-2019, 10:29 AM
Right let's not tell the company we want minimum 20 percent pay rate increase across all pay rates in our cba with no concessions on the pilots part.
Right let them believe will do anything for flow instead.
I dont think so.

moon
05-08-2019, 10:34 AM
Right let's not tell the company we want minimum 20 percent pay rate increase across all pay rates in our cba with no concessions on the pilots part.
Right let them believe will do anything for flow instead.
I dont think so.

I'm more talking about you bringing up what you are leading to believe is privileged information from the negotiations. Let's let it play out.

buddies8
05-08-2019, 10:49 AM
I personally have no first hand knowledge. If I say anything it is with the disclaimer rumor. I did point out the known facts of what the mec did with the last loa and that was a win win for management while as a whole the pilots lost.

Jamesthunder
05-08-2019, 12:58 PM
I am not, what I am saying it has been done and appears from what's said by some on the line with people in the know are indicating something of the same. I dont support anything short of minimum 20 percent pay raise for everyone, every pilot and to put it in our CBA as new rates.
I dont support anything like the last loa.

Trust me, you want more than that. PSA actually got 25%.

buddies8
05-08-2019, 01:21 PM
Actually I said minimum 20 percent. Plus let's not forget what psa blending means. It means that as the 200's are parked their new payrates increase to absorb the 200 rates. Basically double raise.

My point is, raise the pay rates across the board equal percentage no less than 20 % and no envoy pay rate be less than the psa rates as they are and also match the increase with the 200 parking.

ninerdriver
05-08-2019, 02:50 PM
So, this might be all theoretical discussion and stuff, where "we shouldn't get less than a minimum of XX%" or "YYY airline (maybe +1%)" is viewed as cockpit conversation. On these boards, it's not.

This really does give AAG ideas of what folks might accept. If it happens to go to a vote, then all AAG needs is 50%+1. Those discussions of minimums turn into terms that AAG doesn't need to reach, because surely they could get 50%+1 with less than that, right? They might even get farther than that. See OO and F9 for examples.

Meanwhile... FUPM? Yes, do that all day. AAG can't negotiate FUPM.

MochaSwirl
05-08-2019, 03:43 PM
Iím down for FUPM and thatís about it.

Iíll board the FUPM train all day.

pitchattitude
05-08-2019, 04:06 PM
So, this might be all theoretical discussion and stuff, where "we shouldn't get less than a minimum of XX%" or "YYY airline (maybe +1%)" is viewed as cockpit conversation. On these boards, it's not.

This really does give AAG ideas of what folks might accept. If it happens to go to a vote, then all AAG needs is 50%+1. Those discussions of minimums turn into terms that AAG doesn't need to reach, because surely they could get 50%+1 with less than that, right? They might even get farther than that. See OO and F9 for examples.

Meanwhile... FUPM? Yes, do that all day. AAG can't negotiate FUPM.
How about this:

Nothing short of an industry leading paradigm shift in compensation and work rules.

Everyone is saying the current regional model is not sustainable. AAG and Envoy is in the position for innovation.

Soldier64
05-08-2019, 04:06 PM
Iím down for FUPM and thatís about it.

Iíll board the FUPM train all day.

I donít have a boarding pass and travel planner is down but can I get a buddy pass for the FUPM train? Thanks!

griff312
05-08-2019, 04:11 PM
Whelp. There ya have it. N-I-P just set the ceiling at a max 20%, since someone already just laid that groundwork. Thanks. The company will work downward from there.

buddies8
05-08-2019, 04:25 PM
Actually it was minimum 20 percent. the lastmec blackout brought us the last loa, nothing but gains for management. 20 percent minimum increase across all pay rates. The union can walk away anytime it wants, that's fine with me. The screws will just be tightened on envoy management. Have not had a decent pay raise on 10 years what's another 6 months. I just ask for the mec not to give up anything, nothing.

pitchattitude
05-08-2019, 04:25 PM
Whelp. There ya have it. N-I-P just set the ceiling at a max 20%, since someone already just laid that groundwork. Thanks. The company will work downward from there.

So why choose that one as the bar to work down from and not mine or any other?

How about this:

Nothing short of an industry leading paradigm shift in compensation and work rules.

Everyone is saying the current regional model is not sustainable. AAG and Envoy is in the position for innovation.

MISOhigh
05-08-2019, 04:28 PM
How about this.... if management is
ďreading thisĒ you all are in a position in which the bases are loaded, go for the pinch grand slam! If you DRASTICALLY improve QOL/reserve rules, flow, and a hefty increase in pay... you wonít really need to worry about staffing for years to come. Also, youíre taking care of employees. You scratch our back, we will scratch yours. [emoji2369][emoji2369][emoji2369] bottom of the ninth gents. You donít want a bunch of free agents running around.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

buddies8
05-08-2019, 04:39 PM
First minimum 20 percent increase to all current pay rates. Let the raises kick in and after that we can discuss other items. Management will use this to water down raises.
First the minimum 20 percent good faith raise then we talk later about other things.

moon
05-08-2019, 04:51 PM
First minimum 20 percent increase to all current pay rates. Let the raises kick in and after that we can discuss other items. Management will use this to water down raises.
First the minimum 20 percent good faith raise then we talk later about other things.

Dude. STOP for the sake of all the Envoy pilots take a break from this.

Bassman1985
05-08-2019, 04:56 PM
Mainline Group 1 rates and work rules. We operate a common type with the 190, and AAG is willing to pay their pilots that much to operate the 170/190 carrying their pax. THAT is my minimum.

buddies8
05-08-2019, 05:00 PM
we did last time and everyone except newbies got screwed. You think I trust the mec, no I dont. Mec negotiates every day in the dark, away from the light of the membership. Why not ask the mec if the pilots will get a vote, word was no
No I will not stop stating the truth about envoy management and mec, how they negotiate in the dark.
Union that goes public, gains, those in the shadows shaft most.
Come out of the dark shadows union, this is like the bankruptcy negotiations.

Varsity
05-08-2019, 05:18 PM
AA group 1 rates with a staple.

Nothing less

moon
05-08-2019, 05:21 PM
AA group 1 rates with a staple.

Nothing less

Still at least 10% cheaper than AA with our 401K match

griff312
05-08-2019, 05:55 PM
My point is that, if the company had the ability to offer 25% - 30% (not that they likely would actually offer that), you just told them that you would settle for 20%. So now they'll low ball from there.
You don't think that they absolutely LOVE to see the pilot group going out on public forums to bash thier union? This just gives them ammo to further fracture the pilot group. Play the haves against the have-nots. Disagree with your union all you want. Call them, go to meetings and get in thier faces if you want. Challenge thier position and run against them if you want. But for the love of God, DON'T wave your dirty laundry in your bosses faces!
You don't like what's coming from ALPA? Bro, YOU ARE ALPA!

blackbox348
05-08-2019, 06:04 PM
When do you actually think theyíll sign in new rates?

Smutter
05-08-2019, 06:14 PM
When do you actually think theyíll sign in new rates?

Never
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/daily-labor-report/envoy-air-3-56-million-wage-settlement-gets-final-approval

MD-11Loader
05-08-2019, 07:44 PM
When do you actually think theyíll sign in new rates?

Sometime in the first half of June.

highfarfast
05-08-2019, 09:42 PM
First minimum 20 percent increase to all current pay rates. Let the raises kick in and after that we can discuss other items. Management will use this to water down raises.
First the minimum 20 percent good faith raise then we talk later about other things.

I've pointed this out in the past here regarding this 'minimum 20%' and I've said in the past it's still a concessionary rate. Endeavor's rates are more like 25% more AND they were given in the fall of 2017 AND those rates came with better work rules (reserve and commuter benefits).

Given the market is even more favorable to pilots now than then, I think we should be looking for something like pay rates +25%+something. What that "+something" is and whether it's enough, I'll wait and see what the union comes to us with. But simply adding 20% pay is definitely NOT enough.

Jamesthunder
05-08-2019, 10:20 PM
I've pointed this out in the past here regarding this 'minimum 20%' and I've said in the past it's still a concessionary rate. Endeavor's rates are more like 25% more AND they were given in the fall of 2017 AND those rates came with better work rules (reserve and commuter benefits).

Given the market is even more favorable to pilots now than then, I think we should be looking for something like pay rates +25%+something. What that "+something" is and whether it's enough, I'll wait and see what the union comes to us with. But simply adding 20% pay is definitely NOT enough.

More than that. PSA is 25% and endeavor is more than them.

highfarfast
05-09-2019, 04:54 AM
More than that. PSA is 25% and endeavor is more than them.

Really? I was just looking at my own pay step and came up with 20 for PSA and 25 for Endeavor but it wouldnt surprise me if that s a little off for the pilot group as a whole. Whatever Endeavor's is, we should be pushing for THAT plus. Not this PSA crap.

buddies8
05-09-2019, 05:44 AM
I am alpa, I am the union. Been hearing that for a while. Unfortunately the only people who get voted on by the membership is the base reps.
Then the bylaws of alpa allow for secret dealings, and for no pilot vote required on anything. It is up to the mec. Want to tell me when you think the least time this pilot group voted on anything.
Yes I am the union, I pay for it and get shi+ in return.

boiler07
05-09-2019, 10:10 PM
I am alpa, I am the union. Been hearing that for a while. Unfortunately the only people who get voted on by the membership is the base reps.
Then the bylaws of alpa allow for secret dealings, and for no pilot vote required on anything. It is up to the mec. Want to tell me when you think the least time this pilot group voted on anything.
Yes I am the union, I pay for it and get shi+ in return.

Thought you left eagle years ago. Which story are we using this week? They change so quickly.

buddies8
05-10-2019, 05:06 AM
My story does not change. Its fact. Whats your story.

ag386
05-10-2019, 06:58 AM
My story does not change. Its fact. Whats your story.

Don't mind him. He is just an Envoy recruiter intoxicated by the flow, 175s and being an "AA" pilot now while he is at Envoy.

NoValueAviator
05-10-2019, 07:18 AM
Whether weíre recruiting for Envoy to try to get some DFLs below us or trying to drive people away for those sweet pay raises and improvements, can we all agree that weíd like a comm from ALPA hinting about the character of the companyís demands in exchange for reasonable pay, or giving a timeline for when those demands will be revealed to us?

ERAUAV8TR
05-10-2019, 08:13 AM
Whether we’re recruiting for Envoy to try to get some DFLs below us or trying to drive people away for those sweet pay raises and improvements, can we all agree that we’d like a comm from ALPA hinting about the character of the company’s demands in exchange for reasonable pay, or giving a timeline for when those demands will be revealed to us?

Just read your screen name a couple times. You will find your answer.

bigtime209
05-10-2019, 08:23 AM
Whether weíre recruiting for Envoy to try to get some DFLs below us or trying to drive people away for those sweet pay raises and improvements, can we all agree that weíd like a comm from ALPA hinting about the character of the companyís demands in exchange for reasonable pay, or giving a timeline for when those demands will be revealed to us?

If they sent out a hint of details, youíd have everyone and their mothers on here negotiating against ourselves. Just some unfounded rumors floating around had guys on here saying theyíd give up such and such. Let NC do their thing.

blackbox348
05-10-2019, 08:42 AM
Who thinks weíll hear something today? They said they had analyzed all the data and were meeting with the company this week.

Justadude91
05-10-2019, 09:02 AM
Prob nothing today other than ongoing negotiations, however I have heard itís back on the companyís table and their turn to decided. I wouldnít expect anything next week. I think everyone is back in Dallas around the 20th.

boiler07
05-10-2019, 11:44 AM
Don't mind him. He is just an Envoy recruiter intoxicated by the flow, 175s and being an "AA" pilot now while he is at Envoy.

Glad to see you two are still bunking up after all these years. Happy for you.

boiler07
05-10-2019, 11:45 AM
My story does not change. Its fact. Whats your story.

No longwinded, 3 paragraph response? You're getting sloppy.

MD-11Loader
05-10-2019, 11:53 AM
Who thinks weíll hear something today? They said they had analyzed all the data and were meeting with the company this week.

Doubtful, and I think Executive Board is next week at ALPA National, so that will have the officers otherwise engaged. I wouldnít plan on much for a while.

buddies8
05-10-2019, 12:24 PM
No longwinded, 3 paragraph response? You're getting sloppy.

I would not worry, you're here.

Cyio
05-10-2019, 01:59 PM
Doubtful, and I think Executive Board is next week at ALPA National, so that will have the officers otherwise engaged. I wouldn’t plan on much for a while.

Not to mention the bi-weekly is next week if what I am hearing is true, so that will be another commitment that needs to be filled.

In all likelihood nothing meaningful will occur for awhile.

havick206
05-12-2019, 10:20 AM
Not to mention the bi-weekly is next week if what I am hearing is true, so that will be another commitment that needs to be filled.

In all likelihood nothing meaningful will occur for awhile.

The bi-weekly only takes one MEC member out of action, the other seats are filled by contract compliance volunteers.

buddies8
05-14-2019, 08:49 AM
Actually bi- weekly is twice a week,
Bi-monthly is twice a month.

3EngineTaxi
05-14-2019, 09:25 AM
Actually bi- weekly is twice a week,
Bi-monthly is twice a month.
Courtesy of Merriam-Webster.com:

"Definition of biweekly
1 : occurring every two weeks : FORTNIGHTLY
2 : occurring twice a week"

Pedro4President
05-14-2019, 11:34 AM
Courtesy of Merriam-Webster.com:

"Definition of biweekly
1 : occurring every two weeks : FORTNIGHTLY
2 : occurring twice a week"

Donít go using facts in here. Thatís not cool. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

Pedro4President
05-14-2019, 11:35 AM
Actually bi- weekly is twice a week,
Bi-monthly is twice a month.

What does BFR stand for?? How often do you have to get one?

dera
05-14-2019, 12:14 PM
What does BFR stand for?? How often do you have to get one?

Every time someone says it's "biannual" instead of "biennial", a puppy gets killed.

Cujo665
05-14-2019, 05:04 PM
What does BFR stand for?? How often do you have to get one?

They are just FRís now....
PTS is gone too...itís ACS now.
Oh joy

Pedro4President
05-14-2019, 05:18 PM
Courtesy of Merriam-Webster.com:

"Definition of biweekly
1 : occurring every two weeks : FORTNIGHTLY
2 : occurring twice a week"

Google biweekly. Looks like both of you are right. Oxford says it means BOTH.

buddies8
05-15-2019, 06:58 AM
Either way, awful quiet from mec, personally dont like it, and most wont like the result either.

blackbox348
05-15-2019, 08:25 AM
Either way, awful quiet from mec, personally dont like it, and most wont like the result either.

The result being there is no result?

MD-11Loader
05-15-2019, 09:33 AM
Either way, awful quiet from mec, personally dont like it, and most wont like the result either.

ALPA Executive Board is this week in DC. The MEC should all be there for that. Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush into a deal? Look at the PDT thread. Theyíve lost their minds.

blackbox348
05-15-2019, 09:50 AM
ALPA Executive Board is this week in DC. The MEC should all be there for that. Why is everyone in such a hurry to rush into a deal? Look at the PDT thread. Theyíve lost their minds.

Because weíve been waiting for two years now for new pay rates, weíve watched almost every competitor pass us up in work rules and compensation. Weíve been working hard, put up with mass displacements and are ready for something good. Itís been 6 weeks since PSA got their new pay rates, thatís tens of thousands lost for our pilot group just in those weeks alone. Is not rushing itís holding the union and company accountable, if we hadnít there would be no negotiations even happening. Weíre applying pressure, letting our voices heard, weíre fighting.

Varsity
05-15-2019, 10:02 AM
Because we’ve been waiting for two years now for new pay rates, we’ve watched almost every competitor pass us up in work rules and compensation. We’ve been working hard, put up with mass displacements and are ready for something good. It’s been 6 weeks since PSA got their new pay rates, that’s tens of thousands lost for our pilot group just in those weeks alone. Is not rushing it’s holding the union and company accountable, if we hadn’t there would be no negotiations even happening. We’re applying pressure, letting our voices heard, we’re fighting.

Chill out man.

They've only met with the company for a couple hours at most. Give them some time. If we don't approve rates, the company really does have a lot to lose over time. We are only in negotiations for them because other airlines have literally forced their hand.

I have a hard time seeing AA ok with us hiring murderers and miscreants for long.

TeeRainPULup
05-15-2019, 10:07 AM
Chill out man.

They've only met with the company for a couple hours at most. Give them some time. If we don't approve rates, the company really does have a lot to lose over time. We are only in negotiations for them because other airlines have literally forced their hand.

I have a hard time seeing AA ok with us hiring murderers and miscreants for long.

6 weeks is some time. Or are you talking about 6 years?

Varsity
05-15-2019, 10:10 AM
6 weeks is some time. Or are you talking about 6 years?

Whatever it takes.

I stand with the union 100%.

crj700
05-15-2019, 10:24 AM
Whatever it takes.

I stand with the union 100%.

I would like some sort of meaningful communication rather than the "rice cake snack" emails they have been putting out.

I support my union too but there is a level of accountability that must be maintained. Remember, Jim Jones's followers stood by him 100%.

MD-11Loader
05-15-2019, 11:03 AM
I would like some sort of meaningful communication rather than the "rice cake snack" emails they have been putting out.

I support my union too but there is a level of accountability that must be maintained. Remember, Jim Jones's followers stood by him 100%.

More communication would be good, but it has to be metered. I donít want to be like PDT where their people are screaming ďtake the money and fix the rest laterĒ which is essentially a finger in a leaky dam. Hopefully all parties involved are staying in communication. Dera is RWís whipping boy, so I am sure heís passing on the mood of the group.

buddies8
05-15-2019, 11:32 AM
Constant silence, lack of info only aids the company and puts the mec in a corner. Seems no one ever pays attention to history. Next the mec will say we have take this as is or the company walks away. That too was played in the past.

Varsity
05-15-2019, 11:48 AM
Iíd let the company walk away. PDT and PSA making 20% more with Flow. Everyone else making 15-30% more, heck Xjet is about to get ANOTHER raise. With our attrition and F9/NK going full blast this fall, they have to keep seats full. It will becoming increasingly very difficult to do so.

Pulling the cadet seniority in new hire classes would help too.

Lahey
05-15-2019, 01:29 PM
Look at the PDT thread. Theyíve lost their minds.

What? Lmao

buddies8
05-15-2019, 01:43 PM
The mec better put whatever it is to a membership vote.

BIueSideUp
05-15-2019, 04:42 PM
Between flows and attrition we are already hiring less than we need in order to keep up. If the company *******s with flow, attrition increases and applications decrease further. #FUPM

MochaSwirl
05-15-2019, 05:18 PM
Between flows and attrition we are already hiring less than we need in order to keep up. If the company *******s with flow, attrition increases and applications decrease further. #FUPM

Rahrahrah #FUPM

Cyio
05-15-2019, 05:31 PM
The union is doing their job, due diligence. If you donít like it, well you are acting against the benefit of the pilot group. Things take time to get right and if the ALPA national has people working on it as well, things must be getting done. Have you considered that there is simply nothing to say yet?

Perhaps they are still trying to hash out the framework of negotiations still. Hang tight, if a deal is good we will get it, if not we wonít and recruiting will suffer until they fix it.

SilentLurker
05-15-2019, 05:33 PM
Constant silence, lack of info only aids the company and puts the mec in a corner. Seems no one ever pays attention to history. Next the mec will say we have take this as is or the company walks away. That too was played in the past.



History is very important in gauging the future.

Hey yíall, is Jerry Glass & Co still negotiating for Envoy/AAG???

Haha! Wait, does anybody care anymore?


Can someone ask, who is Jerry Glass company and why that might be important? Just for the sake of conversation.


Wait for it...

pitchattitude
05-15-2019, 05:41 PM
History is very important in gauging the future.


Hey yíall, is Jerry Glass & Co still negotiating for Envoy/AAG???

Haha! Wait, does anybody care anymore?


Can someone ask, who is Jerry Glass company and why that might be important? Just for the sake of conversation.


Wait for it...
Iíll bite...

MD-11Loader
05-15-2019, 06:07 PM
The mec better put whatever it is to a membership vote.

I donít think that it will be. The raise and any items that are attached to it will be voted on by the MEC members in the form of an LOA. I am sure that they are going to try for the best all around deal possible and want to avoid the fiasco that we had with the reserve LOA a couple years back.

pitchattitude
05-15-2019, 06:38 PM
I donít think that it will be. The raise and any items that are attached to it will be voted on by the MEC members in the form of an LOA. I am sure that they are going to try for the best all around deal possible and want to avoid the fiasco that we had with the reserve LOA a couple years back.
Is PSAís pay raise an LOA? Sounds to me like that is a No-Go!

cbrpilot
05-15-2019, 06:41 PM
I don't know anything about Jerry Glass. Been here almost 3 years and I've had many talks about company history. What have I missed?

buddies8
05-15-2019, 06:46 PM
Alot........

MD-11Loader
05-15-2019, 06:47 PM
Is PSAís pay raise an LOA? Sounds to me like that is a No-Go!

Doesnít really matter. We arenít getting a raise. AAG is going to merge all three carriers into one 4,000 plus pilot group and call it TWAA.

pitchattitude
05-15-2019, 07:31 PM
Doesnít really matter. We arenít getting a raise. AAG is going to merge all three carriers into one 4,000 plus pilot group and call it TWAA.
Never happen. They need at least two to Whipsaw. I could see PDT getting merged to ENY or PSA. ENY because of the 145 economies of scale, PSA to keep the size balanced.

highfarfast
05-15-2019, 07:37 PM
Never happen. They need at least two to Whipsaw. I could see PDT getting merged to ENY or PSA. ENY because of the 145 economies of scale, PSA to keep the size balanced.

I think we're on the verge of seeing PDT merged with someone. It's the only way I can reconcile AAG going to PSA first when PDT was the one in the worst shape hiring wise. I'd like to see the wording of the new PSA agreement. We know it's a 'blended rate'... does adding a bunch of 50 seat aircraft lower that rate all of a sudden? We don't know the wording of what OUR MEC and Envoy management are looking at... I hope our MEC is paying attention.

Varsity
05-15-2019, 07:47 PM
I think we're on the verge of seeing PDT merged with someone. It's the only way I can reconcile AAG going to PSA first when PDT was the one in the worst shape hiring wise. I'd like to see the wording of the new PSA agreement. We know it's a 'blended rate'... does adding a bunch of 50 seat aircraft lower that rate all of a sudden? We don't know the wording of what OUR MEC and Envoy management are looking at... I hope our MEC is paying attention.

Yeah, they'll give us a blended rate that looks good until they **** us with another 60 50 seaters from a Piedmont merger.

I can see it now.

BIueSideUp
05-15-2019, 08:00 PM
Yeah, they'll give us a blended rate that looks good until they **** us with another 60 50 seaters from a Piedmont merger.

I can see it now.

Hey! Y'all don say that!

pitchattitude
05-15-2019, 08:32 PM
Yeah, they'll give us a blended rate that looks good until they **** us with another 60 50 seaters from a Piedmont merger.

I can see it now.
None of this blended rate or pay bands [email protected]?.

boiler07
05-15-2019, 09:50 PM
personally dont like it, and most wont like the result either.

What are you even talking about? Do you even know anymore?

Phoenix21
05-16-2019, 01:34 AM
More communication would be good, but it has to be metered. I donít want to be like PDT where their people are screaming ďtake the money and fix the rest laterĒ which is essentially a finger in a leaky dam. Hopefully all parties involved are staying in communication. Dera is RWís whipping boy, so I am sure heís passing on the mood of the group.

Most of the people screaming ďtake the moneyĒ in that thread arenít even at PDT. Itís almost an information campaign going on to undermine the Piedmont Union in hope of weakening Envoys position by having PDT match PSAs terms... A bunch of posters are PSA, some are former PDT who are personal friends of members of management.

The ones who are at PDT and wanking are short timers looking pad their bank accounts before they leave by the end of the year.

moon
05-16-2019, 03:40 AM
I think we're on the verge of seeing PDT merged with someone. It's the only way I can reconcile AAG going to PSA first when PDT was the one in the worst shape hiring wise. I'd like to see the wording of the new PSA agreement. We know it's a 'blended rate'... does adding a bunch of 50 seat aircraft lower that rate all of a sudden? We don't know the wording of what OUR MEC and Envoy management are looking at... I hope our MEC is paying attention.

They approached PSA first to get a deal done creating pressure on the rest of the WO. By comparison their QOL over at PSA is better compared to Envoy or PDT so they didn't feel the need to try to fight for improvement when presented with what they thought was a take it or leave it offer.

And Jerry Glass...that guy... He was the consultant AA hired during the 2013-2014 contract fight. He is a pitbull. Coined Comair II and excelled at putting downward pressure on the pilot group. F & H solutions is his labor "relations" company.

buddies8
05-16-2019, 04:23 AM
What are you even talking about? Do you even know anymore?

Well yes I sure do. I also know how mgt plays and how the mec will play to save face. Your knowledge comes from what experience in negotiations.

Bassman1985
05-16-2019, 05:02 AM
Apparently our management is lying to our new hires in class on day 1 of indoc. They are telling them explicitly that the company wants to give us raises and ALPA is standing in the way of that. The only way ALPA could be standing in the way of raises is if they come with concessions elsewhere. If these raises were clean, the company would have our MEC signing off in a heartbeat. Also, that several members of management are running around saying that the Compass planes are coming here for sure. Done deal, just no dates yet.

Heard from the crew roominati in DFW yesterday.

moon
05-16-2019, 05:12 AM
Apparently our management is lying to our new hires in class on day 1 of indoc. They are telling them explicitly that the company wants to give us raises and ALPA is standing in the way of that. The only way ALPA could be standing in the way of raises is if they come with concessions elsewhere. If these raises were clean, the company would have our MEC signing off in a heartbeat. Also, that several members of management are running around saying that the Compass planes are coming here for sure. Done deal, just no dates yet.

Heard from the crew roominati in DFW yesterday.

Union busting 101

MD-11Loader
05-16-2019, 05:35 AM
Union busting 101

Agreed. Iím sure it was RN. A snake oil salesmen if there was one.

buddies8
05-16-2019, 05:52 AM
That's why the mec should tell the pilots exactly what's going on. To counter the disinformation from mgt.
That's my opinion

Cyio
05-16-2019, 06:12 AM
That's why the mec should tell the pilots exactly what's going on. To counter the disinformation from mgt.
That's my opinion

The MEC HAS been telling people what is going on. Did you even read the email they sent out?

The MEC and ALPA National need to make sure that the deal is fiscally sound, whatever supposed "deal" you are referring to. If the company is valuing it at say $25, but the union is valuing it at $15, then something is wrong and the playing field needs to be leveled so that the money matches.

You will be the first one to start *****ing if the union accepts a deal and it turns out to be less than you thought or worse, had to give something up to get it.

You came here knowing the rates of pay and they were good enough for you then, just be patient and let the process work itself out. It is in the companies best interest to make the process quick, not ours.

buddies8
05-16-2019, 06:26 AM
While I do understand your points, they are good ones, I have seen the emails, all 2, and not much info in them. With that said it behooves the mec to get in front as mgt is trying to burn them.

moon
05-16-2019, 06:33 AM
While I do understand your points, they are good ones, I have seen the emails, all 2, and not much info in them. With that said it behooves the mec to get in front as mgt is trying to burn them.

I agree somewhat. I'd like to see more emails maybe very high level leaving out any details but to keep us better updated as to the progress of the meetings. Just saying we are meeting leaves so much in the air.

MD-11Loader
05-16-2019, 07:05 AM
That's why the mec should tell the pilots exactly what's going on. To counter the disinformation from mgt.
That's my opinion

And then we get things like of Facebook where a DFW captain declared that she wanted the raise and would give up OT and other things because ďI donít pick up OT so I donít care.Ē Unfortunately we work with a lot of people who are woefully uneducated when it comes to labor negotiations. Having a comm saying that we are meeting and trying to value the deal means exactly that. Two parties have two sets of numbers and we have to wait for a middle ground to be found. What if we were offered a deal that is valued at what PSA got? We are a much larger group and would be getting less per pilot. Iím ok with waiting as long as it takes for this to be done right. Some back pay will help out everyone at ease when itís all done, the more the better.

smtx123
05-16-2019, 07:13 AM
Apparently our management is lying to our new hires in class on day 1 of indoc. They are telling them explicitly that the company wants to give us raises and ALPA is standing in the way of that. The only way ALPA could be standing in the way of raises is if they come with concessions elsewhere. If these raises were clean, the company would have our MEC signing off in a heartbeat. Also, that several members of management are running around saying that the Compass planes are coming here for sure. Done deal, just no dates yet.

Heard from the crew roominati in DFW yesterday.

Crew roominati... lol nice.

Varsity
05-16-2019, 07:36 AM
Agreed. Iím sure it was RN. A snake oil salesmen if there was one.

Funny, RN was exactly the one saying "Stop asking for raises, you're never getting them" in December of last year.

bigtime209
05-16-2019, 11:44 AM
Apparently our management is lying to our new hires in class on day 1 of indoc. They are telling them explicitly that the company wants to give us raises and ALPA is standing in the way of that. The only way ALPA could be standing in the way of raises is if they come with concessions elsewhere. If these raises were clean, the company would have our MEC signing off in a heartbeat. Also, that several members of management are running around saying that the Compass planes are coming here for sure. Done deal, just no dates yet.

Heard from the crew roominati in DFW yesterday.

This is 100% true. Just not the whole story. Yes, the company wants to give us raises. What they failed to mention to the new hires is that they want to give us raises in exchange for several gives from us elsewhere. Which is obviously unacceptable.

Bassman1985
05-16-2019, 11:54 AM
Agreed. Iím sure it was RN. A snake oil salesmen if there was one.

I believe so. Also, heís one of the ones saying the Compass birds are for sure, among others.

moon
05-16-2019, 01:05 PM
I believe so. Also, heís one of the ones saying the Compass birds are for sure, among others.

There's no way anyone in management could say that we are getting compass's planes if it was certain. There'd be an NDA and they wouldn't be able to tell anyone. Do they think it's likely? Maybe, but i look at the fact that they are spreading that rumor as confirmation that it's not a fact.

bigtime209
05-16-2019, 01:12 PM
There's no way anyone in management could say that we are getting compass's planes if it was certain. There'd be an NDA and they wouldn't be able to tell anyone. Do they think it's likely? Maybe, but i look at the fact that they are spreading that rumor as confirmation that it's not a fact.

Kinda like the 175 CA that's going around telling everybody that he's already been hired as the LAX CPO.

pitchattitude
05-16-2019, 01:20 PM
Kinda like the 175 CA that's going around telling everybody that he's already been hired as the LAX CPO.
I agree with that.

And Iím pretty sure that NY was announced and then a CP was selected. Those kind of jobs usually have to be advertised to the pilot group as a whole, even if they have someone in mind.

BIueSideUp
05-20-2019, 08:42 PM
So then, I guess the plan is to just "negotiate" until most of the MEC flows, the economy ****s the bed and the company can tell us to go ******* ourselves again for real. Ok cool.

That GoJet DEC bonus doesn't look so bad anymore anyway. At least I could get to Spirit.

Pedro4President
05-21-2019, 04:25 AM
So then, I guess the plan is to just "negotiate" until most of the MEC flows, the economy ****s the bed and the company can tell us to go ******* ourselves again for real. Ok cool.

That GoJet DEC bonus doesn't look so bad anymore anyway. At least I could get to Spirit.

If you can get to spirit then why not go?? Seriously? Are you waiting for mainline or flow?

BIueSideUp
05-21-2019, 04:55 AM
If you can get to spirit then why not go?? Seriously? Are you waiting for mainline or flow?

I was just cracking a joke with reference to their "flow" program. From what I hear, it's shady at best. It would take a few more good hard kicks in the nuts here before I'd leave to go be the plug at another regional. I have regularly updated applications in with UA, DL, AA, FX, NK, F9 and WN. I would love to get to mainline asap but if Spirit calls tomorrow, I'm outta here. The thing is, my logbook likely isn't thick enough for the computer to even let my app see the light of day yet.

Pedro4President
05-21-2019, 05:12 AM
I was just cracking a joke with reference to their "flow" program. From what I hear, it's shady at best. It would take a few more good hard kicks in the nuts here before I'd leave to go be the plug at another regional. I have regularly updated applications in with UA, DL, AA, FX, NK, F9 and WN. I would love to get to mainline asap but if Spirit calls tomorrow, I'm outta here. The thing is, my logbook likely isn't thick enough for the computer to even let my app see the light of day yet.

Ahhh itís too early and I didnít even know gojet had a flow to spirit.

buddies8
05-21-2019, 09:07 AM
Word is something end of may. But wait for the union mail blast, if you cant wait, just read the last one.

blackbox348
05-21-2019, 12:05 PM
Word is something end of may. But wait for the union mail blast, if you cant wait, just read the last one.

Source? Is it a ďBigĒ announcement or one of those ďweíll keep fighting for whatís rightĒ type emails?

pitchattitude
05-21-2019, 12:18 PM
Source? Is it a ďBigĒ announcement or one of those ďweíll keep fighting for whatís rightĒ type emails?

Word is something end of may. But wait for the union mail blast, if you cant wait, just read the last one.

Sounds like this is saying no change from the last email.

EnyFlyr
05-21-2019, 12:49 PM
Word is something end of may. But wait for the union mail blast, if you cant wait, just read the last one.

Bahahaa on point.

AeroEnvoy
05-22-2019, 12:49 PM
I like how the union is not even replying to emails. Arenít they always saying to reach out with our concerns. I guess Iíll wait for the next news blast about how nothing has gotten done.

Cyio
05-22-2019, 01:27 PM
I like how the union is not even replying to emails. Arenít they always saying to reach out with our concerns. I guess Iíll wait for the next news blast about how nothing has gotten done.

What email did you use?

Houpilot2001
05-22-2019, 01:55 PM
I like how the union is not even replying to emails. Arenít they always saying to reach out with our concerns. I guess Iíll wait for the next news blast about how nothing has gotten done.

Coming from a business background, after a long stint out of aviation, all I can say is hurry up and wait. This process will not be fast, and details will be sparse (if any). Contiue to email and ask questions, but don't get your hope's up.

UnprotectdPilot
05-25-2019, 07:53 AM
I'll cut the union a little slack given that they attempted to meet with management for continued negotiations only to get screwed by operational necessity on the line.

For those of you with buddies at PSA that have showed you their take home pay, our paychecks are paltry in comparison.

NoValueAviator
05-25-2019, 08:25 AM
I'll cut the union a little slack given that they attempted to meet with management for continued negotiations only to get screwed by operational necessity on the line.

For those of you with buddies at PSA that have showed you their take home pay, our paychecks are paltry in comparison.

Real truth here. Rubbing shoulders with these guys on all the CLT fly through we do now, the numbers say they make significantly more but in practice itís more than double because of the really good schedules, the pay, availability of quality OT, awesome ATTOT thing that I canít remember the name of, etc. Theyíre crediting hundreds of hours with 15-16 days off. That would be impossible for me, and I assume for most people here.

ERAUAV8TR
05-25-2019, 09:51 AM
Real truth here. Rubbing shoulders with these guys on all the CLT fly through we do now, the numbers say they make significantly more but in practice itís more than double because of the really good schedules, the pay, availability of quality OT, awesome ATTOT thing that I canít remember the name of, etc. Theyíre crediting hundreds of hours with 15-16 days off. That would be impossible for me, and I assume for most people here.

Now imagine endeavor take home pay checks...you are welcome

Voski
05-25-2019, 10:37 AM
Now imagine endeavor take home pay checks...you are welcome

https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xeJpnrWC4XWblEk/giphy.gif

SilentLurker
05-25-2019, 12:31 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/xT0xeJpnrWC4XWblEk/giphy.gif



Mind blown indeed for about 1.5+ years now. I am not holding my breath. Clear as day what 6months should look like. Big changes do take time.

We all know Endeavor - the better organic pay rates (clear cut, no snake oil gimmicks). Better performance bonus rates, higher credits, plenty OT premiums/availability, schedule efficiencies, and a quality PBS system (good gate keepers so garbage does not get in). The better management to pilot group relations.

Granted DL makes it easy for Endeavor PBS gate keepers because DL gives them quality, & values the home team as family/employees above other outsourced carriers/strangers. ďSeemĒ like AA gives strangers the fresh and healthy food first, while family/employees are then issued the left overs, the scraps to eat. Itís clear as day how it looks. Now, is that how your own family should be treated? Family? Clear as day, eyeís wide open. Clear to me Ed Bastian, DL/Endeavor leadership understands how you treat family/employees/your WO.


More mind blown facts @ Endeavor= Positive Space Travel to work (with commonsensical conditions) & Positive Space / DH to your home airport on company aircraft on your last day after a trip sequence. All bases.

My mind is getting blown as months & years carry on towards Endeavorís favor and clear advantages over the AA-WOís.

buddies8
05-25-2019, 01:27 PM
This place is run by children who cannot play with others

MD-11Loader
05-25-2019, 02:47 PM
The more time that passes and the fact that PDT doesnít have a deal done yet makes me think AAG blew their wad on the PSA pilots and hoped that the other two groups would just accept the first offers.

BIueSideUp
05-25-2019, 06:43 PM
Is it bad that I cracked a joke last week about going DEC at GoJet and now I'm thinking that $$$$$$ doesn't look so bad?

martyByrde
05-25-2019, 07:50 PM
The more time that passes and the fact that PDT doesnít have a deal done yet makes me think AAG blew their wad on the PSA pilots and hoped that the other two groups would just accept the first offers.
I still donít think we have the leverage Piedmont does. With all the RTP guys and cadets knocking on the front door, it may be a while before we see something substantial.

buddies8
05-26-2019, 02:32 AM
If the company cannot release union PU for negotiations for staffing issues and they wont give raises because they're knocking the envoy door down to get hired, then someone is lying.
Me, I'm going with mgt lying, that's all they know.

chrisreedrules
05-26-2019, 07:09 AM
Mind blown indeed for about 1.5+ years now. I am not holding my breath. Clear as day what 6months should look like. Big changes do take time.

We all know Endeavor - the better organic pay rates (clear cut, no snake oil gimmicks). Better performance bonus rates, higher credits, plenty OT premiums/availability, schedule efficiencies, and a quality PBS system (good gate keepers so garbage does not get in). The better management to pilot group relations.

Granted DL makes it easy for Endeavor PBS gate keepers because DL gives them quality, & values the home team as family/employees above other outsourced carriers/strangers. ďSeemĒ like AA gives strangers the fresh and healthy food first, while family/employees are then issued the left overs, the scraps to eat. Itís clear as day how it looks. Now, is that how your own family should be treated? Family? Clear as day, eyeís wide open. Clear to me Ed Bastian, DL/Endeavor leadership understands how you treat family/employees/your WO.


More mind blown facts @ Endeavor= Positive Space Travel to work (with commonsensical conditions) & Positive Space / DH to your home airport on company aircraft on your last day after a trip sequence. All bases.

My mind is getting blown as months & years carry on towards Endeavorís favor and clear advantages over the AA-WOís.

Youíre crazy or clueless if you think Delta treats Endeavor like, ďfamilyĒ. The real difference is in the management at the WO (or contract regional) level. Not at AAG. Not all management teams are created equal.

buddies8
05-26-2019, 10:31 AM
True but incessant is wide spread in airline management.

SilentLurker
05-26-2019, 11:25 AM
Youíre crazy or clueless if you think Delta treats Endeavor like, ďfamilyĒ. The real difference is in the management at the WO (or contract regional) level. Not at AAG. Not all management teams are created equal.


chrisreedrules Iím not talking about the Flight Attendants or Ramp Agents, Gate Agents, Union vs Non Union fights. Iím not a flight Attendant Iím not a ramp rat.

Iím an highly educated, well training, highly tested PROFESSIONAL AIRLINE PILOT (no difference in the expectations of professionalism, safe operations, duty excellence, Airmanship, product & duty I provide vs mainline)!!!!


If you have examples on how Endeavor PILOTS are not treated better or like a part of DL family vs other FFD or WO please state so!!!!!


I have higher expectations. Period. Call me entitled. We should all feel more entitled in this regional industry because we are! Know your worth!

If you did your ďcarrierĒ would not have whipsawed the entire regional industry (EXPRESSJET, REPUBLIC, AMERICAN EAGLE, PDT, AIR WISCONSIN, COMMUTE AIR). Those pilot groups all stood together! Even signed agreement to toe the line and stand strong. PSA on the other hand did not sign. In fact PSA folded when the time came! We can not forget history!When everyone looked to you guys to stand strong with us (not just Eagle, but the rest of the industry pilot group listed above who took a stand against concessions). Your carrier folded! Period. Clueless? Ok.

Yes, chrisreedrules, your carrier is still being rewarded. Congratulations-A*oles!!!!

mketch11
05-26-2019, 11:43 AM
chrisreedrules Iím not talking about the Flight Attendants or Ramp Agents, Gate Agents, Union vs Non Union fights. Iím not a flight Attendant Iím not a ramp rat.

Iím an highly educated, well training, highly tested PROFESSIONAL AIRLINE PILOT (no difference in the expectations of professionalism, safe operations, duty excellence, Airmanship, product & duty I provide vs mainline)!!!!


If you have examples on how Endeavor PILOTS are not treated better or like a part of DL family vs other FFD or WO please state so!!!!!


I have higher expectations. Period. Call me entitled. We should all feel more entitled in this regional industry because we are! Know your worth!

If you did your ďcarrierĒ would not have whipsawed the entire regional industry (EXPRESSJET, REPUBLIC, AMERICAN EAGLE, PDT, AIR WISCONSIN, COMMUTE AIR). Those pilot groups all stood together! Even signed agreement to toe the line and stand strong. PSA on the other hand did not sign. In fact PSA folded when the time came! We can not forget history!When everyone looked to you guys to stand strong with us (not just Eagle, but the rest of the industry pilot group listed above who took a stand against concessions). Your carrier folded! Period. Clueless? Ok.

Yes, chrisreedrules, your carrier is still being rewarded. Congratulations-A*oles!!!!

ďIím AN highly educatedĒ pilot too! Can I haz raise now?

SilentLurker
05-26-2019, 12:11 PM
ďIím AN highly educatedĒ pilot too! Can I haz raise now?



I waz goin to say edumacated for you natzi perfectionist. But fk it. I am a clueless, unedumacated, crazy sob, and that is ok Uncle Tom. ;) hopefully the interweb warrior has me all figured out.

Pedro4President
05-26-2019, 01:03 PM
ďIím AN highly educatedĒ pilot too! Can I haz raise now?

....well training..... LOL

BIueSideUp
05-26-2019, 01:17 PM
I feel like I'm part of a J.G. Wentworth commercial. #FUPM

HalyardJammer
05-26-2019, 04:31 PM
I feel like I'm part of a J.G. Wentworth commercial. #FUPM

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/84524109/877-cash-now.jpg/

GCPhoenix
06-06-2019, 01:34 PM
Where's my raise? #FUPM

ERAUAV8TR
06-06-2019, 02:12 PM
Where's my raise? #FUPM

Meeting was today!

buddies8
06-06-2019, 03:35 PM
How long does it take the mec to have there email approved by the alpa lawyers before we get it?

blackbox348
06-06-2019, 04:55 PM
Meeting was today!

Any check airman with Deep DECS could negate this comment, the NG is out flying the line.

highfarfast
06-06-2019, 04:58 PM
Any check airman with Deep DECS could negate this comment, the NG is out flying the line.

HSD/emp#/C is deep DECS that only check airman can access?

Management decided we were too short handed to have them meet last week. What makes anyone think we were suddenly NOT short handed THIS week?

Raises are not coming any time soon.

blackbox348
06-06-2019, 05:00 PM
HSD/emp#/C is deep DECS that only check airman can access?

My B, that works too. I guess anybody can see that theyíre out flying the line...if one were to check...

NA/EMP#

Envoy management strikes again...

#FUPM

highfarfast
06-06-2019, 05:13 PM
My B, that works too. I guess anybody can see that theyíre out flying the line...if one were to check...

NA/EMP#

#FUPM

Youíre fine. So many people donít bother with FOS here anyway. I just like pointing out what you can do with FOS so perhaps pilots will learn to use it.

The company has no motivation to give us raises right now so theyíre going to say ďwe offered raises and the union rejectedĒ when in actuality they offered raises significantly less than PSA with 11 contractual concessions attached to it. Now company is making sure the negotiating committee are flying so they canít meet and talk about it. Welcome to Envoy.

MD-11Loader
06-06-2019, 05:30 PM
Any check airman with Deep DECS could negate this comment, the NG is out flying the line.

They can do a phone meeting.

moon
06-06-2019, 05:33 PM
They can do a phone meeting.

Which id anyone bothered to read the notice of an MEC meeting they would see it was a teleconference amongst the MEC.

blackbox348
06-06-2019, 05:34 PM
They can do a phone meeting.

Couldnít they have done one last week then? Does one actually think a phone meeting occurred?

highfarfast
06-06-2019, 05:34 PM
They can do a phone meeting.

That implies they’re all free from flying duties, and necessary sleeping times associated with flying duties, all at the same time.

I’m fine with them needing the time off work duties to do what they need to do. And that might still be a phone meeting. But they still have to find a way to meet. Management says no.

Smutter
06-06-2019, 05:46 PM
How long does it take the mec to have there email approved by the alpa lawyers before we get it?

It takes 2 minutes, unless they don't like

Cyio
06-06-2019, 05:48 PM
Youíre fine. So many people donít bother with FOS here anyway. I just like pointing out what you can do with FOS so perhaps pilots will learn to use it.

The company has no motivation to give us raises right now so theyíre going to say ďwe offered raises and the union rejectedĒ when in actuality they offered raises significantly less than PSA with 11 contractual concessions attached to it. Now company is making sure the negotiating committee are flying so they canít meet and talk about it. Welcome to Envoy.

And yet we still deliver an excellent product. Maybe ďweĒ are the morons in this equation. Pretty pathetic that a highly motivated and intelligent group of people canít seem to figure a way out of this.

highfarfast
06-06-2019, 05:56 PM
And yet we still deliver an excellent product. Maybe ďweĒ are the morons in this equation. Pretty pathetic that a highly motivated and intelligent group of people canít seem to figure a way out of this.

Iím not going to argue with that.

Timbird
06-06-2019, 07:41 PM
And yet we still deliver an excellent product. Maybe ďweĒ are the morons in this equation. Pretty pathetic that a highly motivated and intelligent group of people canít seem to figure a way out of this.

Pilots are their own worst enemy. Company offered 200% OT, none left. Company knows pilots will fall for it every time. They send an email saying to fly .75 we fly at .77. Under blocking is not good. Canít make money that way and also hurts the historical average leg time so now they will block it less. Union has ZERO leverage. Pilots fault.